ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Discuss books and videos related to the principles of Freedom and proper role of government, U.S. Constitution, LDS Church, etc.

ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby Army Of Truth » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:09 am

I'm almost finished reading a great book and a real eye opener called 'ADHD Fraud - How Psychiatry Makes "Patients" of Normal Children'. Here are some amazing facts that most people never read about.

Did you know that ADHD wasn't discovered by science, but VOTED into existence by a committee in 1987? This committee put together by the American Psychiatric Association consisted of 12 psychiatrists, 4 psychologists, and NO pediatricians. There's also NO scientific proof of a chemical imbalance nor ANY proof of a physical abnormality to prove ADHD even exists!

"We do not have an independent valid test for ADHD, and there are no data to indicate that ADHD is due to a brain malfunction." - NIH Consensus Conference on ADHD, 11-18-98

"From the time of puberty onward, each and every child is told that 'speed kills' and that amphetamines are to be avoided. Yet, this same child has learned that Ritalin, for example, is the only thing which makes him a functioning member of the school environment and both his family and his doctor have urged the psychiatric drugs on him."

I've already had my suspicions about ADHD being that I've never heard of any real symptoms or diagnosis for ADHD but only symptoms of any breathing kid who is alive and well. Symptoms like: fidgeting or squirming, difficulty following direction, difficulty paying attention, difficulty playing quietly, etc, etc. Last time I checked, I did all those things as a kid too! So if I was growing up now, I'd quickly be labeled ADHD and given psychiatric drugs to "heal" me. People don't realize that ANYONE given small doses of any of these types of amphetamines (ritalin, prozac, adderall, "speed", cocaine, etc.) will make them calm and docile too!

Gene R. Haislip, Deputy Assistant Administrator, Office of Diversion Control, Drug Enforcement Administration was quoted as saying, “This agency has not made a determination of whether ADHD is a disease or a syndrome… We are also unaware that ADHD has even been validated as a biologic/organic syndrome or disease”.

It's already admitted and acknowledged that the “causes” are unknown and yet both of these “conditions” were voted in as being chemical imbalances in the brain without one shred of scientific evidence. With ADD or ADHD, there are NO brain scans, NO blood tests, NO saliva or urine samples taken, and the entire diagnosis is based on the OPINION of health professionals who much of the time render this judgment on the speculated opinion of school teachers mislead by Psychiatry, and furthermore, who are not trained in the field of physical health or its diagnosis.

If this isn't pseudo science, I don't know what is!
"You Americans are so gullible. You won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.” - Khrushchev to Ezra Taft Benson
Army Of Truth
captain of 1,000

User avatar
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:26 am
Location: Babylon
Been thanked: 138 times

ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Sponsor

Sponsor
 
The Mormon Chronicle

Latter-day Conservative

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby ChelC » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:01 pm

Having worked with the psychiatric industry with my son, I know that there is MUCH that needs to be learned, much that needs to change, etc. There needs to be a focus on healing which is not there. I'm not ready to say however that it's all a ploy to get money at the cost of the kids. I think there is a very real phenomena happening and ADHD is the label given to a group of symptoms which may have different causes and different cures.

The drugs are a bandaid. They don't heal, but they CAN help. I look at some psychiatric medications in some scenarios kind of like the cool washcloth on the head of a fevered child. It may not be doing any healing, but it is providing comfort.

I'm beginning to believe that much is due to polluted foods, whether from chemicals, GMO's, processed garbage or whatever that us the cause, but the cure is more complex that that.

I don't fault a parent for using band aids when they are needed. "ADHD" may not exist as a disease, but I believe it does exist as a set of symptoms.
"We can seek for the bad in others. Or we can... extend to others the understanding, fairness, and forgiveness we so desperately desire for ourselves. It is our choice; for whatever we seek, that we will certainly find."
-Pres. Uchtdorf
ChelC
The Law

User avatar
 
Posts: 6172
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:04 pm
Location: Utah
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby Army Of Truth » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:05 pm

The American Psychiatric Association lists 14 symptoms of Attention Deficit Disorder (and ADHD). At least 8 must be present before a diagnosis of ADD will be made.

• Often fidgeting with hands or feet, or squirming while seated

• Having difficulty remaining seated

• Having difficulty awaiting turn in games or group activities

• Often blurting out answers before questions are completed

• Having difficulty in following instructions

• Having difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities

• Often shifting from one uncompleted task to another

• Having difficulty playing quietly

• Often talking excessively

• Often interrupting or intruding on others

• Often not listening to what is being said

• Often forgetting things necessary for tasks or activities

• Often engaging in physically dangerous activities without considering possible consequences

• Being easily distracted by extraneous stimuli

What is sad is that "often" is not interpreted. Does twice a day not listening to parents qualify? 5-10 times a day? It is very subjective. And looking at this list, I can safely say that both of my boys have ALL of these symptoms DAILY. But I choose not to get them "tested for ADHD" where they will label and drug them with psychotropic drugs. Instead, I choose to discipline them. I don't believe drugging children to make them docile is a good thing no matter what the situation. I thought schools are anti-drug or "Drug-Free". But I guess when it comes to drugs that make them quiet and calm is okay. They don't call them drugs of course, but "medication".

Unbelievable.
"You Americans are so gullible. You won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.” - Khrushchev to Ezra Taft Benson
Army Of Truth
captain of 1,000

User avatar
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:26 am
Location: Babylon
Been thanked: 138 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby Etosha » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:24 pm

I agree that there is really no "test" but I also know there are children, I have one, that have serious problems (ADD or what ever you want to call it) thats usually exactaly how I describe it, I think there are so many issues and they lump them all together and call it ADD or ADHD (she is also dyslexic). We chose no drugs and use essential oils and just work through it. These kinds of problems run in my husbands (X) family from very mild to extreme almost bipolar - so it is very real, I just believe a very natural approach is best.
Etosha
captain of 100

User avatar
 
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:19 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby Legion » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:42 pm

Etosha wrote:I agree that there is really no "test" but I also know there are children, I have one, that have serious problems (ADD or what ever you want to call it) thats usually exactaly how I describe it, I think there are so many issues and they lump them all together and call it ADD or ADHD (she is also dyslexic). We chose no drugs and use essential oils and just work through it. These kinds of problems run in my husbands (X) family from very mild to extreme almost bipolar - so it is very real, I just believe a very natural approach is best.


Kid we were teaching on my mission for which it was very real.....his family found that he was extremely sensitive to sugar.....eat a candy bar and in order to deal with him required a couple mile jog around the lake first. His parents chose that route instead of the drugs....
Legion
Level 34 Illuminated

User avatar
 
Posts: 14389
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:26 am
Been thanked: 177 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby Army Of Truth » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:41 pm

Jason wrote:
Etosha wrote:I agree that there is really no "test" but I also know there are children, I have one, that have serious problems (ADD or what ever you want to call it) thats usually exactaly how I describe it, I think there are so many issues and they lump them all together and call it ADD or ADHD (she is also dyslexic). We chose no drugs and use essential oils and just work through it. These kinds of problems run in my husbands (X) family from very mild to extreme almost bipolar - so it is very real, I just believe a very natural approach is best.


Kid we were teaching on my mission for which it was very real.....his family found that he was extremely sensitive to sugar.....eat a candy bar and in order to deal with him required a couple mile jog around the lake first. His parents chose that route instead of the drugs....


So true! Food is never taken as serious as it should. What we eat is KEY! If we eat junk food with no nutritious value, our bodies will not be able to create a strong immune system and we will be prone to getting sick all the time. But the reverse is also true. If you regularly eat fruits and vegetables and no junk food or sodas, etc., your body will have a strong immune system and you will not be prone to sickness as much. The food we eat is so processed and devoid of nutritional value, its no wonder our children are "fidgety, hyper, forgetful" etc. I guarantee you if you have a pet dog and feed him lucky charms, capt crunch, chips, candy bars and chicken nuggets for a week, he will be pretty darn hyper and running around in circles in no time! LoL!

I read a book called "The Crazy Makers" by Carol Simontacchi that talks all about the importance of our diet.
"You Americans are so gullible. You won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.” - Khrushchev to Ezra Taft Benson
Army Of Truth
captain of 1,000

User avatar
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:26 am
Location: Babylon
Been thanked: 138 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby Army Of Truth » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:44 pm

"You Americans are so gullible. You won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.” - Khrushchev to Ezra Taft Benson
Army Of Truth
captain of 1,000

User avatar
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:26 am
Location: Babylon
Been thanked: 138 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby ChelC » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:50 am

Would it hurt your belief system to know that fruit makes my son react, but table sugar doesn't?

We need to be careful throwing out blanket statements about what parents should be doing. Like parents should feed their kids fruits and vegetables, not sugar and processed foods and then they wouldn't need medicine. Frankly, this is ignorant in the true sense if ignorance. That advice is common sense and even though my son was already a very healthy eater, we started making everything from scratch, we did GFCF... everything. My son's biggest trigger is fruit, and his symptoms are not wiggling though he is always moving.

When I say he was hyper, I mean that he didn't sleep hardly a wink. He never wanted to miss anything. When he would fall asleep for a nap he would wake up in a rage about it (this was at age 2 1/2). He would chase his cousins until he would vomit, then he'd stop for a couple seconds to look at the vomit and continue on. This was at age three. He was physically violent from the time we adopted him at age two as well. It may not sound like much for a toddler to be violent and for most toddlers I'm sure it would make you chuckle, but when your toddler punches and kicks holes in the wall, and punches you in the back it isn't funny anymore.

When your three year old says they want to kill themselves or they wish you would kill them, or says that the "transformer boss" tells him to do bad things, you have an understanding that other parents cannot possibly have if they haven't experienced it.

People on this forum would have had me relying only on Priesthood blessings and exorcisms. The priesthood blessings and temple visits led us through the spirit to medication first, and later the Spirit helped us make food connections. Otherwise healthy food triggers our son.

What we needs on our journey was support. We needed people to recognize that we had a problem without an easy solution, and we needed encouragement that through the spirit (not Dr. Whoselwatzits protocol) that we would conquer this.

Books like this make me angry because they feed the judgment that is mostly all we experienced when we needed support.

My personal note to the parents whose intuition tells then there is something wrong with their child that is beyond typical kid stuff, take the advice of everyone and throw it in the garbage. Get thee to the temple of God and pray. Get in tune with the spirit and trust it. If you need a band aid temporarily OR permanently, pray about it. If you don't feel the Spirit steering you away, do it and know that parents who are ignorant of the situation will have something to say a out it, but they don't matter. The function of your family unit is what matters. Trust yourself.
"We can seek for the bad in others. Or we can... extend to others the understanding, fairness, and forgiveness we so desperately desire for ourselves. It is our choice; for whatever we seek, that we will certainly find."
-Pres. Uchtdorf
ChelC
The Law

User avatar
 
Posts: 6172
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:04 pm
Location: Utah
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby 7cylon7 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:22 am

The spirit told me a long time ago that this was bunk. Since then I have never thought of it again.
7cylon7
captain of 1,000

User avatar
 
Posts: 1151
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 11:09 am
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby Army Of Truth » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:34 am

We also need to watch out for blanket assumptions that just because someone reacts to "fruit" and not sugar to mean that sugar is good for them and not fruit. Have you ever considered what type of fruit your son reacted to? Since there are hundreds of fruit, maybe your son was allergic that particular fruit you gave him? But to say that someone is allergic to all fruit because of one or two they ate is a blanket statement.

In general, fruit is good for humans and sugar is bad for humans. Those are not blanket statements, but facts. Thousands of years prove it too. Look at the humans that live longest and see what they eat. It isn't processed food (full of sugar), its fruits and vegetables and very little, if any, meat. Take the former Kingdom of Hunza or Abkhazia for example. The average lifespan of people there is well over 100 years old with people living to be 165 years old. That is unheard of nowadays. What is their diet? Fruits and nuts and seeds and vegetables. Cancer was unheard of in their environment as was ADHD, Bipolar, asthma, you name it.

These are not my beliefs, but facts. History is replete with them.
"You Americans are so gullible. You won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.” - Khrushchev to Ezra Taft Benson
Army Of Truth
captain of 1,000

User avatar
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:26 am
Location: Babylon
Been thanked: 138 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby ChelC » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:22 pm

Army Of Truth wrote:We also need to watch out for blanket assumptions that just because someone reacts to "fruit" and not sugar to mean that sugar is good for them and not fruit.

I wasn't aware that anyone had made a blanket statement that fruit is unhealthy and sugar is healthy.

Have you ever considered what type of fruit your son reacted to? Since there are hundreds of fruit, maybe your son was allergic that particular fruit you gave him? But to say that someone is allergic to all fruit because of one or two they ate is a blanket statement.

Are you trying to be condescending? I'm not a moron. Yes, we've tested many different fruits, and yes he reacts to certain fruits more than others. But any fruit in excess (and excess for my son is what most people would consider a small to moderate amount) causes problems and that is a fact for my son. Some fruits cannot be consumed even in small amounts without behavioral consquence. I'm not stating that it's a fact for you or your children.

In general, fruit is good for humans and sugar is bad for humans. Those are not blanket statements, but facts. Thousands of years prove it too. Look at the humans that live longest and see what they eat. It isn't processed food (full of sugar), its fruits and vegetables and very little, if any, meat. Take the former Kingdom of Hunza or Abkhazia for example. The average lifespan of people there is well over 100 years old with people living to be 165 years old. That is unheard of nowadays. What is their diet? Fruits and nuts and seeds and vegetables. Cancer was unheard of in their environment as was ADHD, Bipolar, asthma, you name it.

I haven't disputed any of this. But you are assuming that the incidence of cancer, asthma and ADHD is directly attributed to processed food when in fact you don't know if that is true. Have you eliminated the possibility of pesticides, environmental pollutants, hybrid fruits (an apple from yesteryear was quite different from an apple today!), and a myriad of other possibilities? Right now I'm working on a theory with my son that perhaps because of some environmental factors he lacks the needed enzymes to tolerate fruit. That doesn't mean I think table sugar is healthy. I certainly don't. But table sugar doesn't cause my son to behave violently.

These are not my beliefs, but facts. History is replete with them.


Thank you for health 101. This is just what ticks me off. Someone reads a little and thinks they have the answers for everyone. Surely the parents can't handle typical kid stuff and are just drugging their kids. Surely the parents are too lazy to try conventional nutritional wisdom and would just rather visit the psychiatrist and medicate. Surely this doesn't even exist, but the symptoms are because the parents are pathetic morons who feed their kids garbage and then get surprised when the kid acts out. I've read it over and over again. I'm sure there are scenarios where there are parents like that, but I'm not and I'm telling you my son is an exception to conventional wisdom.

If you refuse to have your mindset challenged a bit, that's fine. The Lord has walked this road with me and He knows the truth for us. I just wish I could spare other parents the judgment we've experienced when what we needed was compassion.
"We can seek for the bad in others. Or we can... extend to others the understanding, fairness, and forgiveness we so desperately desire for ourselves. It is our choice; for whatever we seek, that we will certainly find."
-Pres. Uchtdorf
ChelC
The Law

User avatar
 
Posts: 6172
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:04 pm
Location: Utah
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby ChelC » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:09 pm

I decided to do a little background check into the author of this book. The first thing I found out is that he has ties to Scientology, which explains a lot. Scientologists don't believe in any psychiatric diseases. They are in the "try harder" category.

Here's something I pulled from the wiki page:

Baughman has been most critical of ADHD and "biological psychiatry." He has stated, "Biological psychology/psychiatry is a total perversion of medicine and science, and a fraud."[12] During a PBS interview he stated, "Representing such things as depression, anxiety, conduct disorder, ADHD, oppositional defiant disorder, learning disabilities as diseases absent any scientific proof, is to deceive the public. It preempts the public's right to informed consent in every single case."[13]

Baughman has stated, about where psychiatric 'diseases' and 'epidemics' come from, "First you meet with the rest of the DSM Committee of the APA and, over cigars and drinks you invent a disease...not out of thin air but out of the troubled emotions and behaviors of entirely normal human beings, and call it a disease. Next you have bio-psychiatry researchers not really biologists, not really researchers or scientists, apply the tools of biology and medicine to these entirely normal persons (some infants and toddlers) and, in this way you create a scientific literature, that becomes the stuff of their scientific meetings. Next, their break-throughs regarding these diseases, not diseases at all become the stuff of press releases, and from their literature, of their text-books..."[14]

I'm glad to know Baughman considers a violent three hour meltdown resulting in holes in the walls, broken toys, a broken bed, a bruised mother and a preK aged child threatening suicide is the behavior of a "normal human being". I hope the next time (God forbid) we are dealing with it, Dr. Baughman will offer his babysitting services.

One of the psychiatrists we saw had to teach us how to physically restrain our son in a way that would keep everyone safe because he was such a danger at that time. If you haven't had to kneel over a child and hold his arms for hours waiting for him to be mentally safe to let go, you aren't qualified to say it doesn't exist, IMO.
"We can seek for the bad in others. Or we can... extend to others the understanding, fairness, and forgiveness we so desperately desire for ourselves. It is our choice; for whatever we seek, that we will certainly find."
-Pres. Uchtdorf
ChelC
The Law

User avatar
 
Posts: 6172
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:04 pm
Location: Utah
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby Army Of Truth » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:15 pm

Amazing. Talk about ad hominem attacks.

First off you are the one who accused me of making "blanket statements about what parents should be doing" when in fact I never said what any parent should be doing.

Secondly, you are ASSUMING that I "read a little and thinks they have the answers for everyone" when I NEVER SAID I HAVE ANSWERS FOR EVERYONE nor have I ever stated I "read a little". You are assuming quite a bit. That shows me a lot about your ASSUMPTIONS and your character.
"You Americans are so gullible. You won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.” - Khrushchev to Ezra Taft Benson
Army Of Truth
captain of 1,000

User avatar
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:26 am
Location: Babylon
Been thanked: 138 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby Army Of Truth » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:40 pm

Now it sounds like just because you can pull someones "wiki" page that you "know everything" about them. Interesting.

Thirdly, just because someone has a "violent three hour meltdown resulting in holes in the walls, broken toys, a broken bed, a bruised mother and a preK aged child threatening suicide" doesn't mean that they suddenly have a "chemical imbalance" in their brain. Yes, people do crazy things, even crazier than you've experienced! These normal people who have anger tantrums also DO NOT have a chemical imbalance or brain abnormality of some sort. It sounds like you are assuming that just because a rational happy person wouldn't ever behave like this, that anyone who behaves otherwise obviously has a "syndrome" or "disease" of some sort and needs to be put on psychotropic drugs?? Is that what you are saying? Because I definitely don't want to assume.

Have you ever seen a brain scan that shows an imbalance or abnormality of some sort due to ADHD? If you do, you'd be the first! Feel free to show us some pics of proof of ANY data showing a brain malfunction/imbalance due to ADHD or any other conjured up disease you believe to be true. The National Institutes of Health would love to see it too since they don't even have this elusive evidence yet!
"You Americans are so gullible. You won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.” - Khrushchev to Ezra Taft Benson
Army Of Truth
captain of 1,000

User avatar
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:26 am
Location: Babylon
Been thanked: 138 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby ChelC » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:43 pm

Perhaps I read more into your statements than was there.

I did take your previous statements together to say the following:

You don't believe ADHD is real.

You believe that drugging a child is wrong no matter what the circumstance is.

You believe food is the key and that good nutrition will heal the symptoms of ADHD.

You believe that processed foods will cause the symptoms of ADHD.

I presume that if you hold these beliefs you naturally also believe the following:

Kids who have the symptoms if ADHD should never take drugs under any circumstance.

Kids who have the symptoms of ADHD consume too much processed food

If kids with the symptoms of ADHD would eat like our ancestors did, they would no longer have the symptoms of ADHD

Do you believe those things, or did I take my presumptions too far?
"We can seek for the bad in others. Or we can... extend to others the understanding, fairness, and forgiveness we so desperately desire for ourselves. It is our choice; for whatever we seek, that we will certainly find."
-Pres. Uchtdorf
ChelC
The Law

User avatar
 
Posts: 6172
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:04 pm
Location: Utah
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby ChelC » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:56 pm

First of all I never made any statements about what I believe is happening in the brain during one of my son's episodes. No it isn't normal angry behavior. If you were there, you would know that just by looking into his eyes.

I never claimed to be an expert on this author, I did a quick google search and found some things which to me say a lot about him and the positions he holds.

I never even claimed ADHD exists as a specific "disease" just that it exists as a set of symptoms.

Look, I'm asking for compassion for parents. If you have not experienced it you don't know how horrible it is. You don't know how devastating it can be to the family stability. If families are suffering, they need to be empowered and encouraged to trust their instincts and the whisperings of the Spirit. For some people that is going to look like drugging a kid.

The options aren't as simple as many people would like them to appear and a person with a suicidal kid doesn't always have time to heal things with food, especially if those things aren't caused by food to begin with. If those parents want to drug their kid while they figure it out, who am I to judge anyway.

There was a period of time I begged the Lord for respite and my prayers were answered with drugs.
"We can seek for the bad in others. Or we can... extend to others the understanding, fairness, and forgiveness we so desperately desire for ourselves. It is our choice; for whatever we seek, that we will certainly find."
-Pres. Uchtdorf
ChelC
The Law

User avatar
 
Posts: 6172
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:04 pm
Location: Utah
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby Army Of Truth » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:14 pm

ChelC wrote:Perhaps I read more into your statements than was there.

I did take your previous statements together to say the following:

You don't believe ADHD is real. (Correct. I have never yet seen any scientific proof of a brain scan SHOWING this "brain chemical imbalance" although I have heard many "experts" use this empty phrase. That is not to say that I don't believe these symptoms exist because I do. These "symptoms" are called CHILDHOOD.)

You believe that drugging a child is wrong no matter what the circumstance is. (I never said this exactly, yet for the most part it is true. Unless a child or anyone else for that matter needs 'drugs' due to surgery or any physical pain they have, drugs shouldn't be the fix-all answer. They are an easy-fix answer though. It is amazing to see how most parents are so anti-drug and want a "drug-free" school, yet these same parents are quick to drug their kids with Ritalin, Adderall, etc. to help their kids "improve their symptoms".)

You believe food is the key and that good nutrition will heal the symptoms of ADHD. (I never said good nutrition will heal the 'symptoms' of ADHD since I believe they are due to a variety of factors; nutrition being one of them. I strongly believe good nutrition helps reduce many of these symptoms according to the particular child meaning that if a particular child is already 'hyper', switching to a whole-foods healthy diet will not make these symptoms worse, but better. My boys eat well and stay away from most junk food, yet I can still see most of the 14 'symptoms' of ADHD in them. That's because they are young 'normal' boys under age 7. I guarantee you if I change their diet to a pure junk-food diet devoid of any nutritional value whatsoever, their symptoms WILL be worse.)

You believe that processed foods will cause the symptoms of ADHD. (I never said that either. Processed foods is not the only culprit in causing 'adhd symptoms'. In general, most processed foods don't give the human body the vitamins and minerals and nutrition it needs to have a healthy immune system. Whole organic fresh foods are ideal for the human body. That is a fact. Ask any nutritionist.)

I presume that if you hold these beliefs you naturally also believe the following:

Kids who have the symptoms if ADHD should never take drugs under any circumstance. (I agree for the most part. See above.)

Kids who have the symptoms of ADHD consume too much processed food (Blanket statement I never said.)

If kids with the symptoms of ADHD would eat like our ancestors did, they would no longer have the symptoms of ADHD (Blanket statement I never said.)
"You Americans are so gullible. You won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.” - Khrushchev to Ezra Taft Benson
Army Of Truth
captain of 1,000

User avatar
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:26 am
Location: Babylon
Been thanked: 138 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby coachmarc » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:34 pm

I've always thought I had ADHD, but then again, oh look, butterfly! I never took drugs though. Just ran around a lot when I was a kid and got my hands on everything I could find. Today I just work out. A lot.
22 So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee.
23 Nevertheless I am continually with thee: thou hast holden me by my right hand.
24 Thou shalt guide me with thy counsel, and afterward receive me to glory.
coachmarc
My own worst enemy

User avatar
 
Posts: 4800
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:09 am
Been thanked: 1869 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby ChelC » Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:35 am

I have been praying about how to convey the message that I want to convey here and was reminded about a recent bout I had with anxiety. I am infertile and have been going about balancing my hormones naturally. What just about every naturopath would attribute my issues to is estrogen dominance. One of the side effects of getting over striven dominance with progesterone therapy is anxiety. I got it, and I got it badly. I was able to function because I knew it was temporary. I would tell myself that over and over again. I never understood anxiety before that. I thought people just needed to calm down.

Well what about the people who have the same symptoms chronically who cannot find a cause and don't have the reassurance I did that the suffering would end. Long term anxiety could have very serious consequences for familial relationships. So because we cannot find a cause do we call it normal and condemn the use of drugs to ease the suffering?

Not all diseases are linked to physical brain abnormalities and when it comes to chemical abnormalities, science is very young. All we can do until science catches up is class symptom groups together. If we can't find a cause, we can't find a cure. What we can do however is try to treat the symptoms in the mean time instead if leaving people high and dry.

We have people saying that because something cannot be proven it doesn't exist. Fine. Then God doesn't exist. We have no physical evidence to convince the world of that either. I wouldn't call what my son has ADHD. I wouldn't call it anything. We have searched high and low for answers and there aren't any. With that said, for anyone to suggest to me that nothing is wrong with my child, or that his behavior is normal, or that it's simply childhood seems to me the height of arrogance. It's a shallow belief system like atheism.

I am your sister in the gospel and I am testifying to you before our Creator that there is something wrong with my son that conventional wisdom can't fix. There is something seriously wrong. If you cannot accept that because you don't want to believe it, I just don't have anything else to say to you.

My MIL used to say when I expressed concerns to her about Carlos. "He's a boy". One he had a mild rage in front of her and she never uttered those words again. Sometimes we just have to see to believe. I can accept that about human nature. What I will not accept is someone trying to convince me that because they have no evidence that something I have experienced first hand is not true.

When someone cannot function in life and they are unable to find a cure through the various methods available, they should not be told that what they are experiencing isn't real and drugs are wrong. Then what is their solution. BECAUSE THEY NEED A SOLUTION. (that's not shouting, it's emphasis... Easier on my iPod).

When Carlos was really unstable I used to participate in a web forum for people with children who have similar issues. These parents were so desperate to help their kids. Often they would end up hospitalizing their kids or getting residential treatment for them. In some cases, where the kids became a threat to the home and other siblings, the parents had to relinquish their rights in order to get their child the treatment they could not afford. The anguish of those mothers forced to give their children up in order to get them needed services and keep then safe was gut wrenching. People going through those things don't need to be told that it's a figment of their imagination. They need a shoulder to cry on. They need acknowledgement that their lives are out of their control. They need love.

Usually, however, this is what they get:

"Your child is evil."
"You must have abused your child."
"What do you feed him?"
"How could you hospitalize your child?"
"There's no such thing as... "
Etc, etc.

I've tried every way I know how to advocate for those suffering families here on this forum. I wish everyone here could have had a window on our family's journey. Carlos had not had a violent meltdown in almost two years since the Lord helped us make connections for him. It took us years to make those connections and while we worked on it, he tried different medications to quell the violence. I thank God for those drugs being available to us. Without them I have zero doubt Carlos would have been hospitalized to keep himself safe. With them, we were able to get through.

I just wonder how much my family's burdens could have been lightened by people giving us the benefit of the doubt. If people had supported us and withheld their judgment. No one wanted Carlos fixed more than we did. No one prayed harder or shed more tears than we did. We didn't need opinions. We needed a shoulder.
"We can seek for the bad in others. Or we can... extend to others the understanding, fairness, and forgiveness we so desperately desire for ourselves. It is our choice; for whatever we seek, that we will certainly find."
-Pres. Uchtdorf
ChelC
The Law

User avatar
 
Posts: 6172
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:04 pm
Location: Utah
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby Army Of Truth » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:01 pm

I'm sorry to hear about your child and his issues. However, I don't think calling me arrogant will help anyone and that is simply rude. And I never said that what your son is going through "doesn't exist", I simply said that ADHD doesn't exist. But the symptoms you've explained about your son are NOT on the ADHD "14 point List" so what I meant when I said that the list shows symptoms of NORMAL childhood are indeed true. I still stand by that fact because like I mentioned before, BOTH of my sons have most if not all of those symptoms on that list. My oldest son however has other symptoms dealing with anger that are NOT on the list as well as other behaviors that are not on the list.

Have you ever thought about the long term effects of the drugs you are giving your son? Because the medical world doesn't know the long term effects these amphetamines have on children because they haven't done tests or studies on this. But there have been hundreds if not thousands of deaths from Ritalin, for instance. Between 1990 and 2000 there were 186 "reported" deaths from Ritalin. But we know that the reported cases are usually 10-20% of the actual number of cases. So actual deaths from Ritalin could be in the thousands.

I do have an idea what you're going through. My oldest son has what the medical world would call "ADHD" but since I was wise enough NOT to get him 'tested' for it, he was never branded with the ADHD label thank goodness. I have very similar issues with my son. He just had a violent rage a couple of weeks ago among other events. Sure I could get him tested for ADHD and when they see he has the 'symptoms', give him psychotropic drugs that will make him docile, just as those same drugs will make me docile. But I choose not to. And no I'm not advising everyone out there that they should be like me, I'm obviously giving you MY opinion and beliefs and what works for ME. Instead, I've chosen to give him more time and support. I've noticed that when I'm not spending as much time with him and keeping him occupied and busy and disciplined, he has little if any anger rages. This is what works for me after much fasting and prayer. After his last rage, I noticed that I was easing off my usual routine of spending extra time and activities with him and when I corrected it, his behavior also improved. I feel that if my son feels I don't care to spend enough time with him or doesn't feel loved like he should, then it is easier for him to go into his anger rages. My sons mom and I have learned to adjust our parenting towards him because of his behavior and that is the way it should be anyway. If my sons mom and I weren't on the same page, he would also have ended up in the hospital if he wasn't drugged to keep him docile.
"You Americans are so gullible. You won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.” - Khrushchev to Ezra Taft Benson
Army Of Truth
captain of 1,000

User avatar
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:26 am
Location: Babylon
Been thanked: 138 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby Army Of Truth » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:07 pm

Did you know that Ritalin is very similar to Cocaine in its contents and effects on the human brain? And that Ritalin snorted up in the large amounts that Cocaine users use it will have very similar results?

Ritalin is a stimulant like cocaine that may cause undesirable changes in the brain over time. Like cocaine, Ritalin is a powerful stimulant that increases alertness and productivity. Ritalin and cocaine also look and act the same. Both have a similar chemical structure, and both increase dopamine levels in the brain. They do this by blocking a dopamine transporter protein responsible for the reuptake of dopamine at the synapse. Ritalin is also very addicting taken at the same levels as cocaine.

ADHD children are typically taken off of Ritalin when they reach adulthood. Interestingly, these individuals seem to be more prone to cocaine addiction. Why is that? Because Ritalin and cocaine are similar drugs, it's possible that ADHD adults are unknowingly using cocaine as a replacement for Ritalin. In other words, it may be an attempt to self-medicate. Cocaine may help individuals with ADHD focus, feel calm and in control.
"You Americans are so gullible. You won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.” - Khrushchev to Ezra Taft Benson
Army Of Truth
captain of 1,000

User avatar
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:26 am
Location: Babylon
Been thanked: 138 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby Army Of Truth » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:08 pm

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... t-two.aspx

Ritalin is More Potent Than Cocaine

The children's drug Ritalin has a more potent effect on the brain than cocaine.

Using brain imaging, scientists have found that, in pill form, Ritalin - taken by thousands of British children and four million in the United States - occupies more of the neural transporters responsible for the 'high' experienced by addicts than smoked or injected cocaine. The research may alarm parents whose children have been prescribed Ritalin as a solution to Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder.

The study was commissioned to understand more about why Ritalin - which has the same pharmacological profile as cocaine - is effective in calming children and helping them concentrate, while cocaine produces an intense 'high' and is powerfully addictive.

In oral form, Ritalin did not induce this intense psychological 'hit'. But Dr Nora Volkow, psychiatrist and imaging expert at Brookhaven National Laboratory, in Upton, New York, who led the study, said that injected into the veins as a liquid rather than taken as a pill, it produced a rush that 'addicts like very much'.

Interviewed in last week's Journal of the American Medical Association newsletter, she said: 'They say it's like cocaine.'

Even in pill form, Ritalin blocked far more of the brain transporters that affect mood change and had a greater potency in the brain than cocaine. Researchers were shocked by this finding.

A normal dose administered to children blocked 70 per cent of the dopamine transporters. 'The data clearly show the notion that Ritalin is a weak stimulant is completely incorrect,' said Volkow. Cocaine is known to block around 50 per cent of these transporters, leaving a surfeit of dopamine in the system, which is responsible for the hit addicts crave.

But now it is known that Ritalin blocks 20 percent more of these auto-receptors.

'I've been almost obsessed about trying to understand [Ritalin] with imaging,' said Volkow. 'As a psychiatrist I sometimes feel embarrassed [about the lack of knowledge] because this is by far the drug we prescribe most frequently to children.'

However, it was still not clear why a drug that has been administered for more than 40 years was not producing an army of addicted schoolchildren. Volkow and her team concluded that this was due to the much slower process of oral ingestion.

It takes around an hour for Ritalin in pill form to raise dopamine levels in the brain. Smoked or injected, cocaine does this in seconds.

Dr. Joanna Fowler, who worked with Volkow on the project, said: 'All drugs that are abused by humans release large quantities of dopamine. But dopamine is also necessary for people to be able to pay attention and filter out other distractions.'

But opponents of Ritalin, labeled a 'wonder drug' and a 'chemical cosh', believe it may be addictive and has dangerous side-effects. Moreover, many believe ADHD is a fraudulent title for a non-existent condition once put down to the exuberance of youth.

Professor Steve Baldwin, a child psychologist from Teesside University, who died this year in the Selby rail crash, campaigned against Ritalin. He pointed out similarities between the drug and amphetamines as well as cocaine.

Mandy Smith of Banff in Scotland has a son of eight who was prescribed Ritalin for nine months. 'I am astonished the British Government have allowed this drug to be prescribed,' she said. 'It can destroy people's lives. My son was a changed person when he took Ritalin. He was suicidal and depressed.'

Janice Hill, of the Overload Support Network, a charity for parents of children with behavioral problems, said: 'Now we have thousands of children in Scotland taking a drug that is more potent than cocaine. What does it take before the situation is thoroughly investigated?'
"You Americans are so gullible. You won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.” - Khrushchev to Ezra Taft Benson
Army Of Truth
captain of 1,000

User avatar
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:26 am
Location: Babylon
Been thanked: 138 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby ChelC » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:12 pm

Army Of Truth wrote:I'm sorry to hear about your child and his issues. However, I don't think calling me arrogant will help anyone and that is simply rude.

I said it was arrogant to say that what I've experienced with my son is normal and/or a non existent thing. I stand by that statement. You don't know and to act as though you understand what my son was going through and brush it off as normal is in my opinion extremely arrogant.

And I never said that what your son is going through "doesn't exist", I simply said that ADHD doesn't exist. But the symptoms you've explained about your son are NOT on the ADHD "14 point List" so what I meant when I said that the list shows symptoms of NORMAL childhood are indeed true.

That may be true, but most people I know whose kids deal with ADHD are much more extreme than that list suggests and anyone who had undergone the evaluation process would know that. Further, one of the primary factors in determining whether the ADHD needs further treatment (not all of which comes from ritalin) is whether the child experiences those symptoms in more than one setting, more than other children of similar age, and to a point where it is hurting their ability to be successful in their environment.

I still stand by that fact because like I mentioned before, BOTH of my sons have most if not all of those symptoms on that list. My oldest son however has other symptoms dealing with anger that are NOT on the list as well as other behaviors that are not on the list.

Have you ever thought about the long term effects of the drugs you are giving your son? Because the medical world doesn't know the long term effects these amphetamines have on children because they haven't done tests or studies on this. But there have been hundreds if not thousands of deaths from Ritalin, for instance. Between 1990 and 2000 there were 186 "reported" deaths from Ritalin. But we know that the reported cases are usually 10-20% of the actual number of cases. So actual deaths from Ritalin could be in the thousands.

I painfully know the side effects of the drugs we gave our son. It was a devastating decision to make as a mother. I prayed long and hard and the Lord confirmed the decision. It was something we needed to survive that time. The drugs are not a cure, they are a bandaid that is sometimes very necessary.

I do have an idea what you're going through. My oldest son has what the medical world would call "ADHD" but since I was wise enough NOT to get him 'tested' for it, he was never branded with the ADHD label thank goodness. I have very similar issues with my son. He just had a violent rage a couple of weeks ago among other events. Sure I could get him tested for ADHD and when they see he has the 'symptoms', give him psychotropic drugs that will make him docile, just as those same drugs will make me docile. But I choose not to. And no I'm not advising everyone out there that they should be like me, I'm obviously giving you MY opinion and beliefs and what works for ME. Instead, I've chosen to give him more time and support. I've noticed that when I'm not spending as much time with him and keeping him occupied and busy and disciplined, he has little if any anger rages. This is what works for me after much fasting and prayer. After his last rage, I noticed that I was easing off my usual routine of spending extra time and activities with him and when I corrected it, his behavior also improved. I feel that if my son feels I don't care to spend enough time with him or doesn't feel loved like he should, then it is easier for him to go into his anger rages. My sons mom and I have learned to adjust our parenting towards him because of his behavior and that is the way it should be anyway. If my sons mom and I weren't on the same page, he would also have ended up in the hospital if he wasn't drugged to keep him docile.

I'm glad that worked for you and your family. It's too bad that it doesn't work for everyone.
"We can seek for the bad in others. Or we can... extend to others the understanding, fairness, and forgiveness we so desperately desire for ourselves. It is our choice; for whatever we seek, that we will certainly find."
-Pres. Uchtdorf
ChelC
The Law

User avatar
 
Posts: 6172
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:04 pm
Location: Utah
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby Rand » Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:33 pm

Hey ChelC, just for a little hand of support, I think you have done an amazing job. I agree with you, there is something wrong. What I think is important to remember, is you and your husband are the best physicians for Carlos. You have already shown that. Use what ever tools you feel are best. You, and this is not always the case, are on a journey to find true healing. Many are not. You now know more about Carlos than any other living being ever will. You are his best advocate. Look at what you have learned in your journey. You are amazing. For all who extend generalities, I apologize. Advice, even though well intended, is usually full of judgment.

I work in the natural care world, and it can get a little thick at times too. Natural is deemed as good, and drugs as bad. I think personal responsibility is good, and seeking a lasting remedy that leads to wholeness is good, what ever tools you can find to get you there, and God WILL lead you on that journey. God bless for all you have done and continue to do. Well done!
Rand
captain of 1,000
 
Posts: 1499
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:42 pm
Been thanked: 88 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby ChelC » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:09 am

Rand understands me. This us exactly what parents need during their struggle.

After holding Carlos for hours and struggling to keep him safe (which usually left me spit on, bruised, scratched), or after singing to my younger son to stop his tears while Carlos screamed in the background, I would be drained of all energy. I would feel broken and hopeless. I needed to be fed emotionally and spiritually. The words Rand has posted above are exactly what someone battling this needs.

Thank you, Rand.
"We can seek for the bad in others. Or we can... extend to others the understanding, fairness, and forgiveness we so desperately desire for ourselves. It is our choice; for whatever we seek, that we will certainly find."
-Pres. Uchtdorf
ChelC
The Law

User avatar
 
Posts: 6172
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:04 pm
Location: Utah
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby Army Of Truth » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:09 pm

ChelC wrote:
Army Of Truth wrote:I'm sorry to hear about your child and his issues. However, I don't think calling me arrogant will help anyone and that is simply rude.

I said it was arrogant to say that what I've experienced with my son is normal and/or a non existent thing. I stand by that statement. You don't know and to act as though you understand what my son was going through and brush it off as normal is in my opinion extremely arrogant.

I never said I know what your son is going through nor have I said that "what you've experienced with your son is normal". You are putting words into my mouth. What I DID say is the 14 points of ADHD 'symptoms' are NORMAL CHILDHOOD BEHAVIORS. So for YOU to call my "extremely arrogant" is downright RUDE and ARROGANT and PRESUMPTUOUS of YOU.

And I never said that what your son is going through "doesn't exist", I simply said that ADHD doesn't exist. But the symptoms you've explained about your son are NOT on the ADHD "14 point List" so what I meant when I said that the list shows symptoms of NORMAL childhood are indeed true.

That may be true, but most people I know whose kids deal with ADHD are much more extreme than that list suggests and anyone who had undergone the evaluation process would know that. Further, one of the primary factors in determining whether the ADHD needs further treatment (not all of which comes from ritalin) is whether the child experiences those symptoms in more than one setting, more than other children of similar age, and to a point where it is hurting their ability to be successful in their environment.

It seems that now YOU are an EXPERT in ADHD saying "most people whose kids have ADHD are much more extreme than this list". Funny because most people I know are NOT anymore more than this list. And I do know quite a few and most of them are in my family.

I still stand by that fact because like I mentioned before, BOTH of my sons have most if not all of those symptoms on that list. My oldest son however has other symptoms dealing with anger that are NOT on the list as well as other behaviors that are not on the list.

Have you ever thought about the long term effects of the drugs you are giving your son? Because the medical world doesn't know the long term effects these amphetamines have on children because they haven't done tests or studies on this. But there have been hundreds if not thousands of deaths from Ritalin, for instance. Between 1990 and 2000 there were 186 "reported" deaths from Ritalin. But we know that the reported cases are usually 10-20% of the actual number of cases. So actual deaths from Ritalin could be in the thousands.

I painfully know the side effects of the drugs we gave our son. It was a devastating decision to make as a mother. I prayed long and hard and the Lord confirmed the decision. It was something we needed to survive that time. The drugs are not a cure, they are a bandaid that is sometimes very necessary.


I do have an idea what you're going through. My oldest son has what the medical world would call "ADHD" but since I was wise enough NOT to get him 'tested' for it, he was never branded with the ADHD label thank goodness. I have very similar issues with my son. He just had a violent rage a couple of weeks ago among other events. Sure I could get him tested for ADHD and when they see he has the 'symptoms', give him psychotropic drugs that will make him docile, just as those same drugs will make me docile. But I choose not to. And no I'm not advising everyone out there that they should be like me, I'm obviously giving you MY opinion and beliefs and what works for ME. Instead, I've chosen to give him more time and support. I've noticed that when I'm not spending as much time with him and keeping him occupied and busy and disciplined, he has little if any anger rages. This is what works for me after much fasting and prayer. After his last rage, I noticed that I was easing off my usual routine of spending extra time and activities with him and when I corrected it, his behavior also improved. I feel that if my son feels I don't care to spend enough time with him or doesn't feel loved like he should, then it is easier for him to go into his anger rages. My sons mom and I have learned to adjust our parenting towards him because of his behavior and that is the way it should be anyway. If my sons mom and I weren't on the same page, he would also have ended up in the hospital if he wasn't drugged to keep him docile.


I'm glad that worked for you and your family. It's too bad that it doesn't work for everyone.
I never said it will work for everyone.
"You Americans are so gullible. You won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.” - Khrushchev to Ezra Taft Benson
Army Of Truth
captain of 1,000

User avatar
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:26 am
Location: Babylon
Been thanked: 138 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby loquaciousmomma » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:19 pm

I have read this thread filled with turmoil as I relived the agonizing journey that our family has taken with our middle son and his battle with whatever ends up being wrong with him. One thing that has been clear to me is that ChelC has clearly had the Lord's hand in her care for her son. My son is 17 and I have yet to know what is actually the true problem. She has at least found out the cause and has her son's situation under control.

I have experienced exactly what she has described in receiving judgment from people for his behavior. I even had a sister in law tell me his problem was that I hadn't taught him proper boundaries and that is why he misbehaved. Once he was medicated (at the horribly young age of 5) his misbehavior virtually ceased (while he was medicated, that is). If I hadn't taught him proper boundaries he would have continued doing those things because he didn't know any better, but that wasn't the case. Sadly, for us, the most judgmental people were family members. The pain has been agonizing to bear.

Like ChelC, I hated to medicate him. I didn't believe in ADHD, I thought he was just intelligent and energetic, but that didn't explain the total meltdowns when I would send him to his room for misbehavior and he would destroy his bedroom in a fit of rage. We had holes in the walls and curtains torn down. He was very destructive. His rages stopped when he was medicated.

I want you to understand how the decision was made. He was in kindergarten and was constantly in trouble. I went to the school every chance I could to help out. I was there every friday because that was the day they asked parents to be there to help. I watched him reach over and mark on the kid's shirt next to him on an impulse. I watched him color on paper for 2 minutes tops before he tried to run off and do something else, leaving a rudimentary drawing a two year old could do. I watched him squirm and fidget and then finally get up and run away when he was supposed to sit still and listen to the teacher. He was incapable of sitting still for any length of time. So, we made behavior plans with the teacher. She was to give him a check on a chart every time he needed a redirection. If he got fewer than a certain number he could play video games after school. If he got more than a certain number he had a consequence. That Christmas vacation our family was sitting around the table for dinner and I asked everyone to tell me one thing they liked about the vacation. His response broke my heart " No redirections." This was one week into a two week vacation and he was still thinking about it a week later at 5 years old. I made the decision to allow the school to test him for referral to a doctor and when they did, they told me that they couldn't even test him because he wouldn't stop playing with the clicker they used for the computer test. I purposely chose a doctor known for being stingy with medicine to evaluate him. (I had a parent tell me not to go to him because he rarely prescribes medicine. I knew then that he was the one I wanted to see.) This doctor told me that he was the worst case he had ever seen. In fact, years later he used my own story to try to explain something to me not realizing that it was my son he was talking about. ( My son had climbed over our chain link fence at the age of 18 months, he was trying to explain to me that some kids cannot be contained, as what are we to do in that situation, put a top on the back yard like a cage?)

The point is, I was not trying to medicate typical childhood behavior. This was a child who was out of control and he was going to hurt himself if not controlled by medicine. (He jumped off our second story deck once, he threw rocks at cars, he allowed older kids to talk him into walking into a half-frozen stream, etc.) Once when he was 18 months old, he got the front door open and ran toward the street. His older brother was 3 at the time and caught him before I did. I found him holding his brother by the shirt at the curb while he was running at full speed trying to get away.

The doctor I went to used a trial to see if the medicine really made a difference. He had the pharmacy give us two bottles of pills one with a placebo and one with the real ritalin inside. In our situation the first bottle ended up being the real thing. He was a dream at school that day. He came home and showed me the beautiful picture he had spent twenty minutes drawing, then, as the medicine wore off, he tried to draw some more at home, but couldn't and cried like his heart was broken. He really wanted to draw, but couldn't make himself sit still to do it. I know this feeling personally. I love to draw, but sitting still long enough to draw a full detailed picture I feel like there are ants in my pants and I have to force myself to sit still to finish. It is such a painful process I rarely draw anymore.

As wonderful as the medicine was in providing him the opportunity to get through elementary school and even do relatively well, the benefits diminished in jr. high. He changed in 4th grade and was acting as if he was aspergers. I have had him tested but no one can come up with an official diagnosis. He is currently considered adhd with features of nonverbal learning disorder and anxiety. (In 4th grade he pulled his hair out in patches one by one, and became more reserved and became more awkward socially.) He cannot pick up on subtleties and sarcasm often is missed by him. I was told once that he is 2 years behind psychologically. He has gotten in trouble with the law and has become antisocial in his dress and personal care. He is supposed to be a senior but may not graduate for one to two years, if at all. He has crashed and burned.

I don't know if it was the medicine that caused his troubles or if the medicine just bought us some time and our time ran out. He is so much like my mother who is mentally ill that I wonder if they have similar conditions. Neither one can be pinpointed with a particular condition and they both have food issues. I just learned about the idea of a "second brain" in our colon that is where 91 percent of the body's seratonin is made. He and my mother have food issues, like they both say Mcdonalds food makes them ill and they both say meats like pork chops and steak make them ill. Maybe there is something there that I can look into, and I am doing so. In the meantime, however, we are still medicating him, as it at least helps him to focus a little better at school.

Army of Truth, you tell a story about your son with rage issues and your giving him of your time helps him to behave better. I have another son just like that. He was tested for adhd and found not to have any attention issues, but was described as opp. defiant. He put holes in walls and raged violently particularly with major changes, like moving to a new home. The answer for him was simply reading to him every night and paying special attention to him. He has no more rage issues and is my best behaved child now. That was not the case with his older brother.

Every child is different.

Some kids who are diagnosed as adhd may be normal and shouldn't be medicated. Some kids may just be energetic people and need to be given space. Some have food issues, some have allergies, some have difficult home lives that they cope with by being fidgety. Some just need medicine because there is a chemical imbalance that is making self control severely limited. Dismissing ADHD as bunk and going back to square one would be foolish. Some people have a difficult time focusing. I am one of them. I get easily distracted, in fact, as a kid I was so accident prone that my mom had me checked out for balance problems or brain tumors. The neurosurgeon told my mom that I just didn't pay attention. I wasn't diagnosed with adhd then but that is what it was.

Please be careful AOT. Parents get enough flack from people, they don't need someone telling them the one thing that finally seems to explain their exasperating challenges is bunk. They need support and encouragement.
loquaciousmomma
captain of 100
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:28 am
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby Army Of Truth » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:25 pm

Please don't think you are the only one struggling through this. I made this post because it is very close and dear to my heart. Because it pertains to MY SON and my step son!! Don't tell me that what I am doing with my son is wrong and that I should choose psychotropic drugs if I prayed about it because I have. I'm a strong priesthood holder and an RM so I do have faith in my God as I hope you do too. I am very exposed to adhd and have personal knowledge of how psychotropic drugs work and don't work.
Last edited by Army Of Truth on Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"You Americans are so gullible. You won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.” - Khrushchev to Ezra Taft Benson
Army Of Truth
captain of 1,000

User avatar
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:26 am
Location: Babylon
Been thanked: 138 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby Army Of Truth » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:30 pm

loquaciousmomma wrote:I have read this thread filled with turmoil as I relived the agonizing journey that our family has taken with our middle son and his battle with whatever ends up being wrong with him. One thing that has been clear to me is that ChelC has clearly had the Lord's hand in her care for her son. My son is 17 and I have yet to know what is actually the true problem. She has at least found out the cause and has her son's situation under control.

I have experienced exactly what she has described in receiving judgment from people for his behavior. I even had a sister in law tell me his problem was that I hadn't taught him proper boundaries and that is why he misbehaved. Once he was medicated (at the horribly young age of 5) his misbehavior virtually ceased (while he was medicated, that is). If I hadn't taught him proper boundaries he would have continued doing those things because he didn't know any better, but that wasn't the case. Sadly, for us, the most judgmental people were family members. The pain has been agonizing to bear.

Like ChelC, I hated to medicate him. I didn't believe in ADHD, I thought he was just intelligent and energetic, but that didn't explain the total meltdowns when I would send him to his room for misbehavior and he would destroy his bedroom in a fit of rage. We had holes in the walls and curtains torn down. He was very destructive. His rages stopped when he was medicated.

I want you to understand how the decision was made. He was in kindergarten and was constantly in trouble. I went to the school every chance I could to help out. I was there every friday because that was the day they asked parents to be there to help. I watched him reach over and mark on the kid's shirt next to him on an impulse. I watched him color on paper for 2 minutes tops before he tried to run off and do something else, leaving a rudimentary drawing a two year old could do. I watched him squirm and fidget and then finally get up and run away when he was supposed to sit still and listen to the teacher. He was incapable of sitting still for any length of time. So, we made behavior plans with the teacher. She was to give him a check on a chart every time he needed a redirection. If he got fewer than a certain number he could play video games after school. If he got more than a certain number he had a consequence. That Christmas vacation our family was sitting around the table for dinner and I asked everyone to tell me one thing they liked about the vacation. His response broke my heart " No redirections." This was one week into a two week vacation and he was still thinking about it a week later at 5 years old. I made the decision to allow the school to test him for referral to a doctor and when they did, they told me that they couldn't even test him because he wouldn't stop playing with the clicker they used for the computer test. I purposely chose a doctor known for being stingy with medicine to evaluate him. (I had a parent tell me not to go to him because he rarely prescribes medicine. I knew then that he was the one I wanted to see.) This doctor told me that he was the worst case he had ever seen. In fact, years later he used my own story to try to explain something to me not realizing that it was my son he was talking about. ( My son had climbed over our chain link fence at the age of 18 months, he was trying to explain to me that some kids cannot be contained, as what are we to do in that situation, put a top on the back yard like a cage?)

The point is, I was not trying to medicate typical childhood behavior. This was a child who was out of control and he was going to hurt himself if not controlled by medicine. (He jumped off our second story deck once, he threw rocks at cars, he allowed older kids to talk him into walking into a half-frozen stream, etc.) Once when he was 18 months old, he got the front door open and ran toward the street. His older brother was 3 at the time and caught him before I did. I found him holding his brother by the shirt at the curb while he was running at full speed trying to get away.

The doctor I went to used a trial to see if the medicine really made a difference. He had the pharmacy give us two bottles of pills one with a placebo and one with the real ritalin inside. In our situation the first bottle ended up being the real thing. He was a dream at school that day. He came home and showed me the beautiful picture he had spent twenty minutes drawing, then, as the medicine wore off, he tried to draw some more at home, but couldn't and cried like his heart was broken. He really wanted to draw, but couldn't make himself sit still to do it. I know this feeling personally. I love to draw, but sitting still long enough to draw a full detailed picture I feel like there are ants in my pants and I have to force myself to sit still to finish. It is such a painful process I rarely draw anymore.

As wonderful as the medicine was in providing him the opportunity to get through elementary school and even do relatively well, the benefits diminished in jr. high. He changed in 4th grade and was acting as if he was aspergers. I have had him tested but no one can come up with an official diagnosis. He is currently considered adhd with features of nonverbal learning disorder and anxiety. (In 4th grade he pulled his hair out in patches one by one, and became more reserved and became more awkward socially.) He cannot pick up on subtleties and sarcasm often is missed by him. I was told once that he is 2 years behind psychologically. He has gotten in trouble with the law and has become antisocial in his dress and personal care. He is supposed to be a senior but may not graduate for one to two years, if at all. He has crashed and burned.

I don't know if it was the medicine that caused his troubles or if the medicine just bought us some time and our time ran out. He is so much like my mother who is mentally ill that I wonder if they have similar conditions. Neither one can be pinpointed with a particular condition and they both have food issues. I just learned about the idea of a "second brain" in our colon that is where 91 percent of the body's seratonin is made. He and my mother have food issues, like they both say Mcdonalds food makes them ill and they both say meats like pork chops and steak make them ill. Maybe there is something there that I can look into, and I am doing so. In the meantime, however, we are still medicating him, as it at least helps him to focus a little better at school.

Army of Truth, you tell a story about your son with rage issues and your giving him of your time helps him to behave better. I have another son just like that. He was tested for adhd and found not to have any attention issues, but was described as opp. defiant. He put holes in walls and raged violently particularly with major changes, like moving to a new home. The answer for him was simply reading to him every night and paying special attention to him. He has no more rage issues and is my best behaved child now. That was not the case with his older brother.

Every child is different.

Some kids who are diagnosed as adhd may be normal and shouldn't be medicated. Some kids may just be energetic people and need to be given space. Some have food issues, some have allergies, some have difficult home lives that they cope with by being fidgety. Some just need medicine because there is a chemical imbalance that is making self control severely limited. Dismissing ADHD as bunk and going back to square one would be foolish. Some people have a difficult time focusing. I am one of them. I get easily distracted, in fact, as a kid I was so accident prone that my mom had me checked out for balance problems or brain tumors. The neurosurgeon told my mom that I just didn't pay attention. I wasn't diagnosed with adhd then but that is what it was.

Please be careful AOT. Parents get enough flack from people, they don't need someone telling them the one thing that finally seems to explain their exasperating challenges is bunk. They need support and encouragement.


Like I stated be careful. I am being careful. If anyone took offense, it is my OPINION and I am entitled to it. And if you haven't read my full post, I AM A SINGLE FATHER OF AN "ADHD" CHILD, yet I did not get him diagnosed. So its not "officially" adhd.

I have never said ANYONE'S CHALLENGES ARE BUNK. Again, you guys are putting words into my mouth. I know you are on her side because she is a woman and you think she knows more than me but you are very much mistaken there. I'm not saying I know more nor am I saying she knows more. What I'm saying is that you have no clue of who I am and who my son is and what I've been through and what I know.
"You Americans are so gullible. You won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.” - Khrushchev to Ezra Taft Benson
Army Of Truth
captain of 1,000

User avatar
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:26 am
Location: Babylon
Been thanked: 138 times

Re: ADHD Fraud - by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

Postby loquaciousmomma » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:00 pm

Army Of Truth wrote:Like I stated be careful. I am being careful. If anyone took offense, it is my OPINION and I am entitled to it. And if you haven't read my full post, I AM A SINGLE FATHER OF AN "ADHD" CHILD, yet I did not get him diagnosed. So its not "officially" adhd.

I have never said ANYONE'S CHALLENGES ARE BUNK. Again, you guys are putting words into my mouth. I know you are on her side because she is a woman and you think she knows more than me but you are very much mistaken there. I'm not saying I know more nor am I saying she knows more. What I'm saying is that you have no clue of who I am and who my son is and what I've been through and what I know.


Please tell me you are joking with the comment in red. I don't think statements like that give you any credibility.

I didn't say that you called people's challenges bunk, I am saying that you are calling adhd bunk. You are saying that it is a fraud, it is in your title. I am saying that dismissing adhd as a valid diagnosis would be unwise.

As for my comments on your son, I compared them with my own experience with my son, not ChelC's knowledge. And you are right, I have no clue about you and your experiences, except what you have said here. From what you have said, your son fits the profile of my o.d.d. son better than the profile of my adhd one. If there is more than you have shared to the story, so be it.
loquaciousmomma
captain of 100
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:28 am
Been thanked: 3 times

Next

Return to Book/Video Reviews, Commentary & Recommendations

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bananikka and 8 guests