My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Discuss books and videos related to the principles of Freedom and proper role of government, U.S. Constitution, LDS Church, etc.
User avatar
mirkwood
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1059
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 11:54 am
Location: Utah
Contact:

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby mirkwood » Fri May 01, 2015 9:36 am

Talon wrote:
By their fruits ye shall know them.



Claimed she had dreams and posted this on avow, then a few years later under a new username claimed she had a NDE and wrote a book.

Which fruit would that be?
God, family, country, our three great loyalties.

No true Latter-day Saint will ever take a stand that is in opposition to what the Lord has revealed to those who direct the affairs of his earthly kingdom. ~Bruce R. McConkie, CR Oct 1984

Sponsored Links

Advertisements

Medical Cost Sharing - It's not insurance it's better!

User avatar
rewcox
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6026
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby rewcox » Fri May 01, 2015 10:37 am

mirkwood wrote:
Talon wrote: By their fruits ye shall know them.
Claimed she had dreams and posted this on avow, then a few years later under a new username claimed she had a NDE and wrote a book.

Which fruit would that be?
Fruit of the Loom

User avatar
Bee Prepared
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2696
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:48 pm

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby Bee Prepared » Fri May 01, 2015 7:49 pm

rewcox wrote:
mirkwood wrote:
Talon wrote: By their fruits ye shall know them.
Claimed she had dreams and posted this on avow, then a few years later under a new username claimed she had a NDE and wrote a book.

Which fruit would that be?
Fruit of the Loom
That's funny rewcox!

User avatar
mirkwood
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1059
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 11:54 am
Location: Utah
Contact:

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby mirkwood » Sat May 02, 2015 8:55 pm

rewcox wrote:
mirkwood wrote:
Talon wrote: By their fruits ye shall know them.
Claimed she had dreams and posted this on avow, then a few years later under a new username claimed she had a NDE and wrote a book.

Which fruit would that be?
Fruit of the Loom

*snort* =))
God, family, country, our three great loyalties.

No true Latter-day Saint will ever take a stand that is in opposition to what the Lord has revealed to those who direct the affairs of his earthly kingdom. ~Bruce R. McConkie, CR Oct 1984

Onsdag
captain of 100
Posts: 644
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:12 am

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby Onsdag » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:01 am

Still waiting for anyone to step up to the challenge and prove my points wrong. Surely if Julie Rowe is telling the truth then it should be an easy matter to do...

User avatar
iWriteStuff
blithering blabbermouth
Posts: 3280
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:31 am
Location: Sinope

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby iWriteStuff » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:20 am

Onsdag wrote:About this time is when I received the anonymous letter in the mail threatening me to not publish my “attack” against Julie Rowe or they would retaliate by publishing information all over the internet about my past. The only people (that I’m aware of) who knew of my intent to publish my findings was Julie Rowe, Mills Crenshaw, Christopher Parrett, Christopher’s moderators, and a few close friends who have been supportive of me. I do not know who it was that sent the threatening letter, though I believe it was someone who has a vested interest in Julie’s “success.” Nor do I do care if they do so – my past has been resolved and taken care of both legally and with the Church. It is the truth that I am after and I hope to help protect my brothers and sisters from being led astray.
Would I be out of line to ask what it was in your past that required legal and church help to resolve? I'd like to understand your perspective better and perhaps some degree of background would be helpful in establishing context.

If you choose not to share, that's fine too.
"The interesting thing about our age is that not many people are really fooled – we are going into perdition with our eyes open; the separation of the tares and the wheat is to be strictly a free-will affair."

Hugh Nibley

Onsdag
captain of 100
Posts: 644
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:12 am

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby Onsdag » Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:07 pm

iWriteStuff wrote:
Would I be out of line to ask what it was in your past that required legal and church help to resolve? I'd like to understand your perspective better and perhaps some degree of background would be helpful in establishing context.

If you choose not to share, that's fine too.
I'm not sure that this is the proper place or medium to discuss one's past transgressions. I will say that it involved immorality and leave it at that. If you feel you need to know more then I would prefer to answer your questions privately.

Frankly, and respectfully, I'm not sure my past transgressions have anything to do with the current situation and discussion whatever, other than that someone tried to use it against me so that I wouldn't come forth publicly with my concerns about Julie Rowe's story and claims. As I said before, it happened a long time ago, when I was a teenager, some 17 years ago, and has been resolved. Therefore, I'm not sure how effectively it will help you establish context, provide background, or give you an understanding of my perspective in the current situation as they are (in my mind) two completely different and unrelated matters. However, if it has been of help to you, well, then I'm glad I could be of help. :)

User avatar
iWriteStuff
blithering blabbermouth
Posts: 3280
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:31 am
Location: Sinope

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby iWriteStuff » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:09 pm

Thanks!

Nah I only asked because I've had close personal friends who were a bit mistrustful of others and I could never figure it out until later on it came out that they were untrustworthy themselves. One such friend even spent several years in jail for fraud. The old expression "If you can't trust, you can't be trusted" came to mind. Just wondering how/if any of that factored into your story. As for my own part, living in Utah was quite an experience and I learned to suspect the motives of even well meaning members. Usually it was an effort to introduce me to a great new "business" that would "revolutionize my life" or whatever. I don't automatically discount such as frauds, but it raises alarms now. I dig deeper before I decide on my level of commitment.

As this pertains to Julie et al, I believe her as far as her message follows the counsel of the Church, the Spirit, the scriptures and no further. As per what she said or did on AVOW a decade ago, I'm less interested. The fact of the matter is even with details, we don't know the whole story and it's hard to cast judgment without a full and complete understanding. Which is why I usually refrain from doing so, while simultaneously using the Church and scriptures as my yardstick for truth, validated by prayer and the Spirit.

Again, thanks for sharing.
"The interesting thing about our age is that not many people are really fooled – we are going into perdition with our eyes open; the separation of the tares and the wheat is to be strictly a free-will affair."

Hugh Nibley

User avatar
AI2.0
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2986
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:07 pm

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby AI2.0 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:21 pm

iWriteStuff wrote:Thanks!

Nah I only asked because I've had close personal friends who were a bit mistrustful of others and I could never figure it out until later on it came out that they were untrustworthy themselves. One such friend even spent several years in jail for fraud. The old expression "If you can't trust, you can't be trusted" came to mind. Just wondering how/if any of that factored into your story. As for my own part, living in Utah was quite an experience and I learned to suspect the motives of even well meaning members. Usually it was an effort to introduce me to a great new "business" that would "revolutionize my life" or whatever. I don't automatically discount such as frauds, but it raises alarms now. I dig deeper before I decide on my level of commitment.

As this pertains to Julie et al, I believe her as far as her message follows the counsel of the Church, the Spirit, the scriptures and no further. As per what she said or did on AVOW a decade ago, I'm less interested. The fact of the matter is even with details, we don't know the whole story and it's hard to cast judgment without a full and complete understanding. Which is why I usually refrain from doing so, while simultaneously using the Church and scriptures as my yardstick for truth, validated by prayer and the Spirit.

Again, thanks for sharing.
Is this what you've stooped to? Attempting to smear and discredit the Onsdag, suggesting he is 'untrustworthy' because he doesn't trust Julie??????? Not only was it a low move, it was illogical.

Onsdag shared his concerns very clearly and methodically. You don't have to agree (I didn't agree with some of his concerns) and he's asked for discussion. Why do you not use honest, straight forward methods to defend her?

Surely you have some ability to defend Julie by citing her work? She's put it out there and claimed it is true. It ought to be able to stand on it's own.

Can you show us where she explained why she was on AVOW for several years sharing her dreams but never mentioned an NDE?

Can you explain why doing firesides and radio interviews makes her story more believable? Should we only accept her book as true or do we also need to accept things she's said outside the book (like about Big Foot etc) or her claims about Energy healing?

Can you show why we shouldn't be concerned about Julie's involvement with Emotion Code and how it is completely in line with LDS teachings?

And now, if her story is absolutely true and she was told to share it with the world, why is she now stopping? If she has such an important mission and message, why is that mission over? Seems awfully odd considering the things she's claimed will be happening are supposed to happen very soon.

Don't you think these are valuable questions to ask if one is to trust her claims?
"...the ultimate most annoying person on this forum, A.120!"

Plato — 'One of the penalties of refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.'

Onsdag
captain of 100
Posts: 644
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:12 am

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby Onsdag » Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:01 pm

AI2.0 wrote:
iWriteStuff wrote:Thanks!

Nah I only asked because I've had close personal friends who were a bit mistrustful of others and I could never figure it out until later on it came out that they were untrustworthy themselves. One such friend even spent several years in jail for fraud. The old expression "If you can't trust, you can't be trusted" came to mind. Just wondering how/if any of that factored into your story. As for my own part, living in Utah was quite an experience and I learned to suspect the motives of even well meaning members. Usually it was an effort to introduce me to a great new "business" that would "revolutionize my life" or whatever. I don't automatically discount such as frauds, but it raises alarms now. I dig deeper before I decide on my level of commitment.

As this pertains to Julie et al, I believe her as far as her message follows the counsel of the Church, the Spirit, the scriptures and no further. As per what she said or did on AVOW a decade ago, I'm less interested. The fact of the matter is even with details, we don't know the whole story and it's hard to cast judgment without a full and complete understanding. Which is why I usually refrain from doing so, while simultaneously using the Church and scriptures as my yardstick for truth, validated by prayer and the Spirit.

Again, thanks for sharing.
Is this what you've stooped to? Attempting to smear and discredit the Onsdag, suggesting he is 'untrustworthy' because he doesn't trust Julie??????? Not only was it a low move, it was illogical.

Onsdag shared his concerns very clearly and methodically. You don't have to agree (I didn't agree with some of his concerns) and he's asked for discussion. Why do you not use honest, straight forward methods to defend her?

Surely you have some ability to defend Julie by citing her work? She's put it out there and claimed it is true. It ought to be able to stand on it's own.

Can you show us where she explained why she was on AVOW for several years sharing her dreams but never mentioned an NDE?

Can you explain why doing firesides and radio interviews makes her story more believable? Should we only accept her book as true or do we also need to accept things she's said outside the book (like about Big Foot etc) or her claims about Energy healing?

Can you show why we shouldn't be concerned about Julie's involvement with Emotion Code and how it is completely in line with LDS teachings?

And now, if her story is absolutely true and she was told to share it with the world, why is she now stopping? If she has such an important mission and message, why is that mission over? Seems awfully odd considering the things she's claimed will be happening are supposed to happen very soon.

Don't you think these are valuable questions to ask if one is to trust her claims?
AI2.0, I appreciate you trying to come to my defense, I really do. But, with all due respect, I feel you may have jumped to the wrong conclusion here. Granted, I can see how it can be perceived that way, but I don't think that was entirely his intention.

I am actually a fairly trusting person, preferring to believe the best in a person, unless and until they prove otherwise. I have also always tried to be as open and honest in all my dealings. I have been so from the beginning and one needs but look at my first posts to find out why I have done the things I have and the reasoning behind it. In short, and to reiterate, it is because I have felt guided by the Holy Ghost to search out truth and to take a stand for truth as I have come to know it.

If one wants to know more about my back-story and why I do the things I do I could share that, though I'm sure it would be a rather long and tedious overview of my life's story. I could share how, when I was in my youth, my mother moved her family to Sanpete county where there were quite a few apostate peoples and groups, and how I began to learn at a young age that there are people who lie and deceive; some even who mix so much truth into their stories as to draw many away after them. I could share all the many stories of how I have gained a testimony, learned the gospel, and learned how to hear and follow the promptings of the Holy Ghost. My life has literally been spared on two seperate occasions because I gave heed to the promptings of the Holy Ghost - one such time the prompting was completely counter-intuitive in my mind, but I knew it was the right thing to do. I could share how my dear mother homeschooled me, and even though she wasn't considered "smart" by worldly standards she was wise and taught me those things which were beyond price - a love for God, Jesus Christ, the gospel, the Prophets and Apostles, our country and Constitution, and more. She taught me to be honest, something I have always striven to do, even when it is inconvenient, has cost me jobs or promotions, worldly honors, etc. I could go on and on - each life's experience, both good and bad, adding to who I have become and why I do the things I do.

If people don't trust me that is their right and I will support their right to believe whatever they want. The same is true with this whole Julie Rowe situation. If people want to believe her that is their right and I will defend their right to do so. At the same time though I will continue to try and teach the things I have come to know to be true, and to do so as clearly as I can, striving always to do so as guided by the Holy Ghost - who teaches and testifies of all truth.

I don't hold anything against Iwritestuff. In fact I agree with much of what he has said and appreciate his contribution to this discussion. With love,

Erin Branch

User avatar
AI2.0
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2986
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:07 pm

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby AI2.0 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:52 pm

Onsdag, you are clearly a more patient and charitable person than I am. I tend to perceive the worst in people, not their best. I felt he was trying an ad hominem approach; but you're right, it doesn't really matter. If people choose to read it, and agree or dismiss, that's up to them.

Once again, your illuminating information was an answer to my own questions and prayers on this matter, so I appreciate your willingness to bring it to this forum.

Julie is apparently retiring from public appearances, so I assume the controversy surrounding her claims will most likely die away.
"...the ultimate most annoying person on this forum, A.120!"

Plato — 'One of the penalties of refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.'

User avatar
iWriteStuff
blithering blabbermouth
Posts: 3280
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:31 am
Location: Sinope

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby iWriteStuff » Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:29 pm

AI2.0 wrote:Onsdag, you are clearly a more patient and charitable person than I am. I tend to perceive the worst in people, not their best. I felt he was trying an ad hominem approach; but you're right, it doesn't really matter. If people choose to read it, and agree or dismiss, that's up to them.

Once again, your illuminating information was an answer to my own questions and prayers on this matter, so I appreciate your willingness to bring it to this forum.

Julie is apparently retiring from public appearances, so I assume the controversy surrounding her claims will most likely die away.
I have to say, I find the irony amusing. I was attempting to understand Onsdag's background and perspective so as to avoid misjudging intent and motive. Meanwhile, my intent and motive was misjudged.

As per background on myself, I could start by saying I got my Psychology degree from BYU. I didn't pursue a career in it, ultimately, but one of the key takeaways from my studies is that you should never presume to understand someone's subjective experience in its entirety. There may be factors that contribute to someone's choices or behavior, but even they might not know the root source of their actions. The best you can say as a psychologist is "Sometimes it's this, and sometimes it's that." Hence I wanted to know from whence came Onsdag's motive to research and expose Julie. I don't presume to judge the motive, but I did hope to understand it better.

I'm not inclined to even judge the veracity of Julie's NDEs/visions/whatever. Who am I to judge a personal experience someone else had, even if they deem it prudent to share it? When I shared my feelings and impressions about her event, it was because I discerned that she was sincere and honest. That's as much as I can judge, and even then I leave the door open to the idea that maybe I'm not even right about that.

Is it a contradiction to say follow the prophet, heed the Spirit, and keep yourself open to new possibilities being revealed through the same channels? Because that's all I'm trying to do.
"The interesting thing about our age is that not many people are really fooled – we are going into perdition with our eyes open; the separation of the tares and the wheat is to be strictly a free-will affair."

Hugh Nibley

User avatar
AI2.0
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2986
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:07 pm

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby AI2.0 » Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:47 pm

iWriteStuff wrote:
AI2.0 wrote:Onsdag, you are clearly a more patient and charitable person than I am. I tend to perceive the worst in people, not their best. I felt he was trying an ad hominem approach; but you're right, it doesn't really matter. If people choose to read it, and agree or dismiss, that's up to them.

Once again, your illuminating information was an answer to my own questions and prayers on this matter, so I appreciate your willingness to bring it to this forum.

Julie is apparently retiring from public appearances, so I assume the controversy surrounding her claims will most likely die away.
I have to say, I find the irony amusing. I was attempting to understand Onsdag's background and perspective so as to avoid misjudging intent and motive. Meanwhile, my intent and motive was misjudged.

As per background on myself, I could start by saying I got my Psychology degree from BYU. I didn't pursue a career in it, ultimately, but one of the key takeaways from my studies is that you should never presume to understand someone's subjective experience in its entirety. There may be factors that contribute to someone's choices or behavior, but even they might not know the root source of their actions. The best you can say as a psychologist is "Sometimes it's this, and sometimes it's that." Hence I wanted to know from whence came Onsdag's motive to research and expose Julie. I don't presume to judge the motive, but I did hope to understand it better.

I'm not inclined to even judge the veracity of Julie's NDEs/visions/whatever. Who am I to judge a personal experience someone else had, even if they deem it prudent to share it? When I shared my feelings and impressions about her event, it was because I discerned that she was sincere and honest. That's as much as I can judge, and even then I leave the door open to the idea that maybe I'm not even right about that.

Is it a contradiction to say follow the prophet, heed the Spirit, and keep yourself open to new possibilities being revealed through the same channels? Because that's all I'm trying to do.
Well, I think we've found the answer...You got your psych degree at BYU, I got mine at the U of U. And there you have it!! :p

I guess we've been psychoanalyzing each other. While I felt that you attempted to use his past to try and discredit his claims, he says 'no', so I'll accept your denial. And, as a poster, I do like you; we aren't usually on opposite sides, so I'm going to assume my suspicious nature and my training at a 'godless' University got the better of me. ;)
"...the ultimate most annoying person on this forum, A.120!"

Plato — 'One of the penalties of refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.'

truthseeker7
Hi, I'm new.
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:32 am

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby truthseeker7 » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:11 pm

As I was searching AVOW last night I had the exact same feelings as Onsdag. I have never thought Julie Rowes story of NDE was true or real. It sounded fake and copied. When I listened to her on various talk radio shows I had similar feelings, just didn't feel right. I then noticed on AVOW last night that she used to post under her name Julie Rowe in 2008; and all her post were just about dreams. They were obviously getting a lot of praise and traffic from members on avow, you can tell from all the thank you's she got at the bottom of her posts. Then I noticed she stopped posting in 2011. I went to bed last night thinking about this and wondering why she never said her dreams were NDE. I prayed for an answer and low and behold, I found this blog today! Yep, an answer to my prayer. I learned on this blog that Julie changed her screenname to fellowdreamer, then it all made sense to me. No one on AVOW is going to discredit Julie because AVOW gets most ALOT of its traffic from her posts about NDE, tent cities, the call-out, Julie Rowes up coming appearances etc., etc. Avow is make huge cash of Julie Rowe - no way are they going to silence her - even if her books contradict church doctrine, or if its made up and false! Its not brain science people - if the church won't let her hold her special (speakings) at church houses then something must be wrong - right! Good grief, I can't belief how many elect people are being fooled by her. It's great that she is encouraging others to get prepared, work on becoming more spiritual, go to the temple, etc., but wouldn't it be better if a person did those things because they wanted to for themselves, for the Lord, instead of doing them out of fear. I want to do things to show my obiedience and love for the Savior, not out of fear. To many false things in her books, not to mention her demeanor on the various talk radio shows I've listened to. I've listened to all of them and I have to say, that is when I first came to my conclusion something was not right about her. Her personality, the way she talks and talks and talks endlessly about nothing - Never really answering any questions. I wish Ms. Rowe all the best. She knows what she is doing, and she will be the one who has to answer for it . Ms. Rowe would be better off serving others using a different venue, not one using Fear (with he mixed message of love), and then charging people $$ or making them believe they need to uproot and move to another state or area. I absolutely agree with everything Onsdag has said, and I thank him for taking the time to research it (however, I will not be spending anymore time on Julie Rowe or this). It's been bothering me for awhile, but now that I got the answer to my prayer, (and this off my chest!), I don't want to waist anymore time on the subject and I suggest others don't either. We should be spending our precious time - we may or may not have - reading our scriptures, spending time with our family, doing our church callings, serving others, and focusing on the Savior. Thanks Onsdag, for putting it all into perspective!

Onsdag
captain of 100
Posts: 644
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:12 am

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby Onsdag » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:40 pm

Onsdag wrote:
I have gotten in touch with one of Julie's former Stake Presidents and our discussion was rather insightful. It seems there are other people who are concerned about Julie, her books, firesides, etc. As I was led to understand she has been told directly that she does not represent and is not to speak for the Church. This is rather interesting because one of her posts on AVOW she claims, or at least strongly implies, that she has the full backing and support of the Brethren for her message and books. I include this as an addendum to my original post/document:
102. In one rather shocking post on ldsavow.com, dated June 24, 2014, Julie stated: “I am confident that the Prophets and Apostles are not only okay with my message, my testimony and my witness, including what I have written in my book, “A Greater Tomorrow,” I have been given a witness that they have been made aware of it and know the purposes it will serve in helping to warn and hopefully prepare many who need to hear the message at this time in this way.”

This is rather a bold statement by Julie. She is saying that she has the (if not explicitly then at least tacitly) full approval, support, and endorsement of the brethren in sharing her message and book. This is rather alarming for a few reasons. Firstly, in the Church Handbook 2: Administering the Church, we receive the following instructions and guidelines which I feel are applicable:
  • “As members express their own thoughts and feelings, they should not give the impression that they represent or are sponsored by the Church.” (21.1.22, Personal Internet Use)
  • “The Church does not endorse any political party or candidate. Nor does it advise members how to vote. … Candidates for public office should not imply that their candidacy is endorsed by the Church or its leaders. Church leaders and members should also avoid statements or conduct that might be interpreted as Church endorsement of any political party, platform, policy, or candidate.” (21.1.29, Political and Civic Activity)
  • Members should not ask General Authorities or Area Seventies to coauthor or endorse Church books or other Church writings.” (21.1.32, Privately Published Writings)
  • “Local leaders should not accept the claims of sales agents that the Church or a Church leader has authorized them to call on local leaders or members to sell their products.” (21.1.36, Sales Agents)
  • “From time to time, statements are circulated that are inaccurately attributed to leaders of the Church. Many such statements distort current Church teachings and are based on rumors and innuendos. They are never transmitted officially, but by word of mouth, e-mail, or other informal means. Church members should not teach or pass on such statements without verifying that they are from approved Church sources, such as official statements, communications, and publications. Any notes made when General Authorities, Area Seventies, or other general Church officers speak at stake conferences or other meetings should not be distributed without the consent of the speaker. Personal notes are for individual use only.” (21.1.39, Statements attributed to Church Leaders)
  • “Some of these groups falsely claim or imply that the Church or individual General Authorities have endorsed their programs. However, the Church has not endorsed any such enterprise, and members are warned against believing such claims. The fact that the Church has not formally challenged such an enterprise should not be perceived as tacit endorsement or approval.” (21.3.9, Self-Awareness Groups)
In each instance in these various topics and scenarios we are counseled and warned not to make statements or give the impression that one has approval or endorsement from the Church or its leadership. Julie’s statement is in direct violation of this counsel.

Secondly, Julie’s statement is in all likelihood not true. Not very often has a General Authority publicly endorsed a book or author. I for sure have not heard or found any of them publicly endorsing Julie’s book or message. On the contrary, I have personally talked with one of her former Stake Presidents over the phone and he informed me that she has been told that she is not to speak for or on behalf of the Church or its leaders.

And finally, if they are “okay with [her] message, [her] testimony and [her] witness, including what [she has] written in [her] book, ‘A Greater Tomorrow,’” then they would be tacitly approving all of the falsehoods, doctrinal errors, and plagiarisms as found in her book and enumerated in my documentation. This I cannot see happening.
Pay special attention to the words of Julie Rowe in the above quoted section:

“I am confident that the Prophets and Apostles are not only okay with my message, my testimony and my witness, including what I have written in my book, “A Greater Tomorrow,” I have been given a witness that they have been made aware of it and know the purposes it will serve in helping to warn and hopefully prepare many who need to hear the message at this time in this way.”

And now let's see what the Brethren have just recently had to say about her book:
From: Administrators Council CES
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 3:11 PM
Subject: Publication Caution—A Greater Tomorrow: My Journey Beyond the Veil
Date: August 31, 2015
Additional Information: This document has been posted on the website.

Memo Text (also attached as a PDF file):
Please be aware of the caution regarding the publication below and alert teachers and staff as needed.
In 2014, Spring Creek Book Company published A Greater Tomorrow: My Journey Beyond the Veil by Julie Rowe (see shaded box for Amazon’s description of the book). Although Sister Rowe is an active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, her book is not endorsed by the Church and should not be recommended to students or used as a resource in teaching them. The experiences she shares are her own personal experiences and do not necessarily reflect Church doctrine or they may distort Church doctrine.
We remind personnel to review the following resources regularly:
· Avoid Teaching Spurious Materials
· Obtaining and Maintaining Scriptural and Doctrinal Integrity (Edward J. Brandt)
· Spurious Materials in Circulation
Would this be a bad time to say "I told you so?"

On the one hand I am happy to see the Brethren speaking up on the subject and that my concerns are vindicated. On the other hand I am saddened that it has come to this point where they are needing to address it, and that so many people have been affected by her actions. I suspect though that many people will continue to defend her. Such is the way of human nature though, and thanks to the wonderful and precious gift of agency they are free to do so.

For what it's worth, Julie did get some things right - one of which is the need to follow the prophet. I for one will happily follow the Brethren and be wary of and recommend others to not read certain "spurious materials" which "may distort Church doctrine."

User avatar
Jason
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 16489
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:26 am
Contact:

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby Jason » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:10 am

Case closed. Not dismissed.
Teuful Hunden - Saepius Exertus, Semper Fidelis, Frater Infinitas

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!!!

nzmagpie
captain of 10
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:51 pm

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby nzmagpie » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:43 am

I have just viewed Stefan Molyneux' video on the "The Death of Reason". He spends a lot of time discussing how our objectivity is often impaired by our emotional commitment to a belief. If we can strip away that emotional attachment, we can see more clearly the logic, or reason behind an issue.
My logic tells me JR was faking it, but my emotions, based on wishful thinking perhaps. are giving me another message. I like to think i'm a logical person, but after watching Molyneux, I believe I need to refine my thinking on issues such as JR.

I have to admit that when I read A Greater Tomorrow, it sounded like a catechism of Mormon beliefs taken from readily available sources. Nothing new at all, just a re-hash. She doesn't go any further in her interviews either in trying to reconcile some of the more controversial ones with science. It's as if she's teaching a primary class. Anyway, I will keep an open mind and try to separate the emotions from my reasoning. I'll follow the truth wherever it leads. if the Nay Sayers are correct, then I thank them for their research. If they have it skewed, then I still thank them for allowing me to think more deeply on this subject.

nzmagpie
captain of 10
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:51 pm

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby nzmagpie » Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:57 pm

Forgot to mention that I suspected a link between LDS author Kim Rives' book, "A Walk Through Heaven" and JR's "A Greater Tomorrow". It came out a few years before AGT and also uses the theme of a guided tour through various buildings and rooms, where all is revealed. They are both aimed at an LDS market with overtly LDS beliefs incorporated into the story. Coincidence?

nzmagpie
captain of 10
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:51 pm

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby nzmagpie » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:06 pm

Nobody has written more about the spirit world than the brilliant Swedish scientist/engineer Emanuel Swedenborg. He spent much of his last 28 years of mortality stepping in and iut of the spirit world. I have been reading his books for 2-years and watching videos based on them.
I refer you all to the following video, which includes some of his writings:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6uyxRINGmDQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

After viewing this and reading some of his free publications, you will find that some of JR's experience is plausible. I have also been studying NDE's for 20-years and the range of experiences is broad, tthough there are common elements. Some of you may have also read, or listened to LDS author Jeff Olsen talk about his NDE. He often says that the dream state can have similar elements to an NDE. He's experienced profound dreams where he felt he left his body. I've read both his books and they were life changers.

User avatar
Matchmaker
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1979
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:58 pm

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby Matchmaker » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:45 am

nzmagpie wrote:Nobody has written more about the spirit world than the brilliant Swedish scientist/engineer Emanuel Swedenborg. He spent much of his last 28 years of mortality stepping in and iut of the spirit world. I have been reading his books for 2-years and watching videos based on them.
I refer you all to the following video, which includes some of his writings:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6uyxRINGmDQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

After viewing this and reading some of his free publications, you will find that some of JR's experience is plausible. I have also been studying NDE's for 20-years and the range of experiences is broad, tthough there are common elements. Some of you may have also read, or listened to LDS author Jeff Olsen talk about his NDE. He often says that the dream state can have similar elements to an NDE. He's experienced profound dreams where he felt he left his body. I've read both his books and they were life changers.
Listening to Jeff Olsen's story and the humble way in which he told it, changed my life. Thank you for mentioning him.

Ann
captain of 10
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:40 pm

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby Ann » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:26 pm

I don't know Julie, but I can tell you she has helped me. I am paying more attention to the signs of the times. I am trying to get better prepared. I have gone back and reread multiple times the talks from the apostles and prophets about the last days and what I should be doing now. I haven't prayed about her experience, I haven't felt the need to. But I began to wonder why I haven't had my own experiences as so many others seem to be having. But I did have my own, and I was quickly reminded of them. I read somewhere in some notes from one of her fireside (I think) that we should pray about specifics we might need for own families. That was a good idea, so I did. He answered right away. I still need to go get that particular item I just haven't had the opportunity yet. Very few will need that specific item in their preparedness supplies, but I definitely need it. This is about all I can say. She's helped me.

It became a time to revisit my preparedness and make sure I am doing what I should be because of what the prophets and apostles have said.
Last edited by Ann on Sat May 07, 2016 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Shawn
Hi, I'm new.
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 1:57 pm

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby Shawn » Tue May 03, 2016 2:14 pm

Your first bullet point of your review of Rowe's writings indicated that a lot of skimming would be a more efficient use of my time. You claim Rowe's work was a "contradiction" to the scriptures, the Gospel...pretty much everything. The redundancy you employed was a horrific rhetorical device that left me puzzled at your obsessive attack--something you assured us was not the purpose of your extremely long diatribe. The Trans Pacific Partnership is peanuts in comparison.
As with all matters of important revelations, the readers need to ask God. Even then, God may not answer.
If you honestly believe Rowe is trying to scam the world (and that very well be the case), I wish you would have simply stated that...with brevity. Instead of offering me information to research myself, you went to incredible lengths to lead me to your conclusion. Now, I must question your agenda as much as Rowe's--probably less arduous than living through her alleged impending doom!

DesertWonderer
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1187
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:17 pm

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby DesertWonderer » Tue May 03, 2016 9:33 pm

nzmagpie wrote:Forgot to mention that I suspected a link between LDS author Kim Rives' book, "A Walk Through Heaven" and JR's "A Greater Tomorrow". It came out a few years before AGT and also uses the theme of a guided tour through various buildings and rooms, where all is revealed. They are both aimed at an LDS market with overtly LDS beliefs incorporated into the story. Coincidence?
No not at all. I read Sara Menet's supposed NDE after I read JR's first book. There was a paragraph that was an almost word for word exact copy--silliness to the extreme.

Talon
Hi, I'm new.
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:15 pm

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby Talon » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:07 pm

mirkwood wrote:
Talon wrote:
By their fruits ye shall know them.



Claimed she had dreams and posted this on avow, then a few years later under a new username claimed she had a NDE and wrote a book.

Which fruit would that be?
That's not a fruit.

User avatar
AI2.0
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2986
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:07 pm

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby AI2.0 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:14 pm

I don't remember if you commented on this Onsdag, so I'm going to add it here just in case it wasn't covered.

I'm reading 'Lucy's book; A critical edition of Lucy Mack Smith's family memoir' by Lavina F. Anderson. It has Lucy SMith's rough draft and the first book published by Orson Pratt side by side for comparison. They give a different take on what happened after Joseph Smith's first visit with Moroni and it differs from what Julie Rowe claimed she saw.

The significance of this is that Julie Rowe claimed that she saw actual events--so we ought to expect them to be the same as what Lucy Smith said happened, as she was writing her memoir of those events.

Julie said this on page 82:
"I witnessed as the next day Joseph was working in the field with his father chopping wood."

Lucy's memoirs say he was 'reaping' in the field with his father and older brother Alvin.

The Joseph Smith history seems to be what Julie is taking her version from--Joseph simply mentioned the 'necessary labors of the day', because she includes him climbing a fence (which is not in the other two versions which say he lay down under an apple tree because he was so weak.)


Julie also omits Joseph going back to the field to tell his father, instead she says she saw him walk home and climb in bed and fall fast asleep. This contradicts Lucy's version and the Joseph Smith history version, where he promises to follow the angel's instructions and goes right out to the place where he'd been told the plates were buried.

In Lucy's version it says "his father charged him not to fail in attending strictly to the instruction which he had received from this heavenly messenger. Soon after Joseph had this conversation with his father, he repaired to the place where the plates were deposited .."

I earlier on this thread was discussed another discrepancy which I noted while reading this book-- Rowe says 'he rolled away the large stone' (pg 82) however, Lucy's version and the Joseph Smith history say he "obtained a lever, which I got fixed under the edge of the stone, with a little exertion I raised it up."


As I said, the significance of these discrepancies is that she claims to have seen actual events in vision, yet they don't match up to known accounts which I have no reason to believe are incorrect.
"...the ultimate most annoying person on this forum, A.120!"

Plato — 'One of the penalties of refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.'

Onsdag
captain of 100
Posts: 644
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:12 am

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby Onsdag » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:12 pm

I did indeed notice and mention the discrepancies between the two accounts in regards to both Joseph's activities after the angelic visitation, and also the description of the stone. These are points #29 and #30 respectively. Julie essentially claims to be a first hand witness of these events, and her description of these events clearly contradict Joseph's account, who also claims first hand experience. So either Julie is lying, Joseph is lying, or both are lying. I, for one, have a testimony of the truthfulness of Joseph Smith and his account.

What boggles my mind is that Julie's story contradicts Joseph's account so much. Since she was raised in the Church surely she would know that her version is not in harmony with with Joseph's. And surely since she is a self proclaimed student of history she should be aware of these discrepancies as well. So how is it that she slipped in these contradictions? Was it intentional? And if so, for what purpose?

I had not heard of Lucy's account of Joseph reaping in the field. Now that is interesting; I'll have to add it to my notes. What are the references for that? And is the Julie quote about him chopping wood from "A Greater Tomorrow" or a different book? I don't seem to remember reading that part.

Thanks for the additional information AI2.0!

User avatar
AI2.0
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2986
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:07 pm

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Postby AI2.0 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:11 pm

Here's the references:

In "A greater tomorrow", it says;

"I witnessed as the next day Joseph was working in the field with his father chopping wood." page 82

In 'Lucy's book' an edition of the smith family memior' it says:

"The next day, my husband, Alvin, and Joseph, were reaping together in the field, and as they were reaping, Joseph stopped quite suddenly, and seemed to be in a very deep study." page 339

My own opinion; I think she was using the Joseph Smith history as her guide (where it just mentions 'necessary labors') and thought to add a more particular detail 'chopping wood' thinking it would make it sound authentic. She was not aware that there was another version that explained in more detail that he was reaping in the fields with his father and brothers.
"...the ultimate most annoying person on this forum, A.120!"

Plato — 'One of the penalties of refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.'


Return to “Book/Video Reviews, Commentary & Recommendations”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 29 guests