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Thanks for posting this. Looks interesting for sure.
Many years ago when I was a deacon I read some things that Brigham Young said that were pretty whacked out and the Spirit made me realize I needed to really be on the lookout for personal philosophies, biases, opinions and understandings and just not blindly accept things from church leaders as truth. Thank goodness for the Spirit.
From the friendly confines of theological speculations, Turner proceeds to what is probably the climax of Young's life, the dark days of the Utah War and Mountain Meadows Massacre. To set the stage, he recounts the testy relations with territorial officers and several suspicious deaths like those in the Aiken party. After reviewing the evidence in an even-handed matter, Turner concludes on Young's "likely complicity" in the matter. As is the case throughout the narrative, Turner intersperses interesting details—here, he notes several odd dreams of Young's that the heavy stress effected. Drawing on important recent surveys of the matter (particularly Bill MacKinnon's), Turner chronicles Young's march to the edge of the precipice and the inevitably inglorious retreat therefrom. Turner's concise account of the massacre concludes that "there is no satisfactory evidence that Young ordered the massacre" and that "there was no good reason for Young to order a massacre with the potential to focus the full fury of the American government on Utah" but, in the end, "Young bears significant responsibility for what took place."
Juliette wrote:How many years ago were you a deacon?
iamse7en wrote:We have very different impressions and opinions of Brigham, then.
Like wrote:Juliette wrote:How many years ago were you a deacon?
Over 20 years ago! I still remember going over to my Bishop's house to have my interview where he taught me in greater detail about the Oath and Covenant priesthood, about priesthood powers and the duties associated with holding the priesthood, stewardship and about righteous dominion and unrighteous dominion. It was a very spiritually power discussion for me personally.
In my doctrinal teachings I have taught many things not written in any book, ancient or modern, and yet, notwithstanding the many things I have told the people. I have never looked into the Bible, the Book of Mormon, or the Doctrine and Covenants, or any of our church works to see whether they agreed with them or not. When I have spoken by the power of God and the Holy Ghost, it is truth, it is scripture, and I have no fears but that it will agree with all that has been revealed in every particular. (BY, Deseret News, 6/6/1877)
I could give you revelation as fast as a man could run, I am in the midst of revelation. Do you want more revelation written? Wait till you obey what is already written. (BY, Millennial Star 12 [15 September 1850]: 273-76)
I was anxious to learn from Joseph and the spirit of God. The spirit of revelation that was given to me has revealed to me many things which have been done. (BY, Deseret News, 6/6/1877)
Some have had fears that we had not power to get revelations since the death of Joseph. But I want this subject from this time forth to be forever set at rest. I want this Church to understand from this day henceforth and forever that an apostle is the highest office of authority that there is in the Church and kingdom of God on the earth. From whom did Joseph receive his authority? Just such men as sit around me here (pointing to the Twelve Apostles that sat with him). Peter, James and John were apostles and there was no noise about their being seers and revelators though those gifts were among them. Joseph Smith gave unto me and to my brethren, the Twelve, all the priesthood keys, powers, and authority which he had and those are powers which belong to the apostleship. ... Could we ordain men to authority greater than we hold ourselves? No. (BY, WWJ, 8/14/1847)
The power of God was upon President Young who is made by the power of God a great, good and glorious man and a father indeed to the Church and Kingdom of God. (WWJ 8/21-23/1851)
The people want revelation. This is revelation. If you wanted revelation written, I could write revelations every day about building a temple, digging gold, going to England. I profess to be an Apostle. Every Apostle will have to be a revelator and have revelations if there are thousands, but then if they do their duty and live up to their calling, if not they will have to be removed. But a man that is not an Apostle has not power to stand at the head of the Kingdom of God, hold the keys of the Priesthood and build up and lead the Church of God. The highest authority on the earth is an Apostle. (BY, WWJ, 4/7/1852)
Every man in this room who has a particle of the spirit of God, knows that President Young is a Prophet of God and that God sustains him and he has the Holy Spirit and his doctrines are true, and that he is qualified to lead the people, and he has explained everything so plainly this evening that a child can understand it, and yet it is no evidence to you. Nothing can make an impression upon you; no argument can reach your understanding. (WW to OP, WWJ, 1/27/1860)
I got a revelation that God accepted our offering [at Zion's Camp]. I had the same thing revealed to me twice and that we should not go into Jackson County. ... I will now tell you all and you may write it down that all my preaching by the Holy Ghost is revelation. I told Brother Joseph that he had given us revelation enough to last us 20 years. When that time is out, I can give as good revelation as there is in the Doctrine and Covenants. (BY, WWJ, 1/27/1860)
You know when you have a vision, you can see as well all over your body as out of your eyes. When Joseph had a revelation, he had the eyes of the Lord. He saw as the Lord sees. How did I know what was going on in Washington? I have known what was going on there all the time, and I know what is going on in other people's houses. I know it by the spirit of God; it is revealed to me. (BY, WWJ, January 31, 1861)
At prayer circle, President said: I have asked the Lord what kind of a temple we should build and the answer of the Lord was that He did not make two things alike, and we need not make two temples alike, so we need not look for two temples alike. (BY, WWJ, June 1, 1873)
After the death of Joseph Smith, when it seemed as if every trouble and calamity had come upon the Saints, Brigham Young, who was President of the Twelve, then the presiding Quorum of the Church, sought the Lord to know what they should do, and where they should lead the people for safety; and while they were fasting and praying daily on this subject, President Young had a vision of Joseph Smith, who showed him the mountain that we now call Ensign Peak, immediately north of Salt Lake City, and there was an ensign fell upon that peak, and Joseph said, "Build under the point where the colors fall and you will prosper and have peace." The Pioneers had no pilot or guide; none among them had ever been in the country or knew anything about it. However, they traveled under the direction of President Young until they reached this valley. (George A. Smith, JD 13:85)
Pres. B. Young said that the saying of the Prophets would never be verified unless the House of the Lord be reared in the Tops of the Mountains & the Proud Banner of Liberty wave over the valleys that are within the Mountains & I [B.Y.] know where the spot is & I know how to make this Flag. Jos[eph] sent the colours and said where the colours settled there would be the spot. (recorded in John D. Lee Diary, Jan. 13, 1846)
dewajack wrote:“The story Turner tells in this elegantly written biography will startle and shock many readers. He reveals a Brigham Young more violent and coarse than the man Mormons have known. While lauding his achievements as pioneer, politician, and church leader, the book will require a reassessment of Brigham Young the man.”
—Richard Bushman, author of Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling
gruden2.0 wrote:Just for the record, Brigham Young never claimed to be a prophet, seer or revelator. He viewed himself merely as a presiding authority over the church. Had one of Joseph's sons stepped up to the task of leading the church, it would have been turned over to him. The presidents who followed viewed themselves similarly. When we arrive at David O. McKay, church presidents became associated with the prophet title. No one between Joseph Smith and McKay did so.
Just for clarification...
ajax wrote:Here's a review from times and seasons:
http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/20 ... -g-turner/
see footnote 1 on Brighams rejection of a divorce petition. Whoa nellie!
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