3rd Party Debates

[Captain Moronicaptain of 1,000]

So I am a really bad person.. How about answering the questions I asked.

[shadowcaptain of 1,000]

Sustaining the brethren does not have to mean you agree with them. But I think it does mean that you don't publicly accuse them of being wrong. Take it to your priesthood leader, take it to them personally or take it to the Lord. My opinion of course.

[Markcaptain of 1,000]

Good thoughts shadow. The prophet Joseph sumed it up nicely when he said "Leave the kingdom alone, the Lord steadies the ark; and if it does jostle, and appear to need steadying, if the way is a little sideling sometimes and to all appearance threatens its overthrow, be careful how you stretch forth your hands to steady it; let us not be too officious in meddling with that which does not concern us. Let it alone, it is the Lord's work. I know enough to let the kingdom alone, and do my duty. It carries me, I do not carry the kingdom."

[Captain Moronicaptain of 1,000]

Shadow thank you for the advice and differenitiation between differing with something and publicly saying they are "wrong." I immediately had the HG confirm this.

Now what about the other questions?

[shadowcaptain of 1,000]

[quote="Captain Moroni"]
Do you think that I would be a hypocrite and a liar to answer the TR question that I sustain the GAs? That depends on if you feel you sustain them or not. Does that mean a person must agree 100% even when the HG has witnessed otherwise? Not at all. It seems if one answers YES that I shouldn't say yes to the question then I must accept the GAs as infallible which even JS said he wasn't infallible? I think you can both sustain them and disagree with them. However, how you show your disagreement also shows how well you sustain them. I hope that made sense.
I'm not asking these questions for just the sake of argument. I know.

[Captain Moronicaptain of 1,000]

Does the forum represent a public place? Why?

[jbalmcaptain of 1,000]

pub⋅lic
   /ˈpʌblɪk/ [puhb-lik]
–adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or affecting a population or a community as a whole.
2. done, made, acting, etc., for the community as a whole.
3. open to all persons.
4. of, pertaining to, or being in the service of a community or nation, esp. as a government officer.
5. maintained at the public expense and under public control: a public library; a public road.
6. generally known.
7. familiar to the public; prominent.
8. open to the view of all; existing or conducted in public.
9. pertaining or devoted to the welfare or well-being of the community.
10. of or pertaining to all humankind; universal.

A couple of those definitions describe the forum.

[Captain Moronicaptain of 1,000]

dbalm thanks for the defintions. So this group of less than 300 people fits the criteria of being a public arena? Interesting.

IF I went about publishing my concenrs in the NY Times or some other publication with wide publication among non members, yes I should be at least brought to a Church Court for questioning and Counseling. If I don't repent, there are grounds for EXing me.

Frankly, I'm beginning to become scared that free speach is under great attack.

[jbalmcaptain of 1,000]

Popularity has nothing to do with being classified as public.

The restroom at the courthouse in my town is probably only used by 10 people a day. But it is still public.

And free speech isn't being threatened at all. Certain speech is being criticized. But stifling the criticism would be a threat to free speech.

One eternal round...so to speak.

[Captain Moronicaptain of 1,000]

jbalm when speach is threatened with possible EXing because you are an apostate, then that stifles free speach.

[josephcaptain of 100]

Captain,

You are fine! I enjoy your comments, although at times I may disagree. There are many in this forum who are critical of the church and its members. I do feel that some of this criticism is unfair.

I believe that there is much, much refinement that all of us as members still need. The Master's kiln is very hot, but without the tempering we shall never become pure.

[Captain Moronicaptain of 1,000]

Fellow rebel, that is why any criticism/judgement better be be righteous in nature. I would be shocked if anyone agreed with me than 100%. Hey, it would be great if my wife agree with me 50%.

[Markcaptain of 1,000]

jbalm when speach is threatened with possible EXing because you are an apostate, then that stifles free speach.

You are making me dizzy Cap. I need to go lay down for a bit.

[shadowcaptain of 1,000]

jbalm when speach is threatened with possible EXing because you are an apostate, then that stifles free speach.

So are you saying one should not be EXed for exercising free speech?

[WYp8riotcaptain of 1,000]

Although it is generally most of the same of us LDS freedom minded members I do think that this forum would be considered public and is viewed by many visitors I would imagine. We should be cautious and mindful of what could be harmful to potential converts.

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

In remarks to the media following a BYU address, Senator Harry Reid said that, "In the past years we've had some very prominent members of the church, like Ezra Taft Benson, who are really right-wing people....."Members of the church are obedient and followers in the true sense of the word, but these people have taken members of the church down the path that is the wrong path," he said. Our stake president found out that the First Presidency was aware of Reid's statement. As far as I know nothing came of it.

I was on TV recently and in a position to have said something like the LDS Church President, Thomas Monson, is remiss in not emhasizing the importance of LDSs supporting candidates for elected office who truly espouse the US Constitution, and thus misleading church members away for their responsibility to the Constitution. If members of our bisopric and/or stake presidency heard me say that, what do you think would have come of it?

[Captain Moronicaptain of 1,000]

Shadow and Mark, of course some "free speach" is grounds for EXING, Is there anything here which I've said that is equivalent to Senator Reid and Romeny when he stated there had been no visit from God since Moses. In both cases, this was on a MSM forum.

Unfortuanetly, there seems to be a double standard. IF a pion like me says it, I may be discipled even perhaps with EXing. But, if you are famous and in the public eye and give big bucks, anything can be said.

God is NOT a respector of persons.

[ChelCThe Law]

I don't think anyone was saying that your comments here were grounds for being excommunicated. What we are saying is that it is inappropriate to publicly badmouth the brethren. When we have misunderstandings we take those to the Lord and our church leaders, we should not voice them publicly. The reason for this is primarily that we may lead others astray. There are always struggling members and sometimes the critical voice of another member is the straw that breaks the camel's back. It is not appropriate, and yes, many people have been disciplined for doing so. It isn't a violation of free speech. You may say what you like, but not free from consequence.

[Markcaptain of 1,000]

I don't think anyone was saying that your comments here were grounds for being excommunicated. What we are saying is that it is inappropriate to publicly badmouth the brethren. When we have misunderstandings we take those to the Lord and our church leaders, we should not voice them publicly. The reason for this is primarily that we may lead others astray. There are always struggling members and sometimes the critical voice of another member is the straw that breaks the camel's back. It is not appropriate, and yes, many people have been disciplined for doing so. It isn't a violation of free speech. You may say what you like, but not free from consequence.

They don't pay you the big bucks for nothing ChelC. You are right on the money here. Sustaining the Brethren is much more than just raising your right arm to the square.

[Markcaptain of 1,000]

God is NOT a respector of persons.

Then let God exercise whatever judgement He chooses. You have no stewardship or authority to do so Cap.

[Captain Moronicaptain of 1,000]

Mark, you're right I have no authority to do so but I do have the right to point out when some is respector of persons.