Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

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ChelC
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by ChelC »

You know I like you ChelC but heres the thing. I was listening to Ron Paul on Glen Beck the other day and Beck asked him why he doesn't just leave the Republican Party and go third party all the way. Paul said that he had to be practical because if he had left the Republican party he would never have been elected to the Congress these many years. Therefore he stays with the party. Now that to me was very telling. This guy is your icon for constitutional values yet he has chosen to stay with the party he trashes all the time because of electability prospects. So tell me what I am supposed to join? Even your own guy refused to do what all here advocate because of practicality issues. So lets look at reality. Paul does it. Has he bought into the lie?


I don't know, Mark. Paul is using the ticket to affect change. That's exactly what I've been trying to do also. I've tried to bring a voice for constitutionalism to the GOP as a county and state delegate, but I'm not party loyal. One can be reality based in working the system, but still step out and vote for a change of course. As long as the majority of constitutionalists fail to consider anyone who isn't on the republican ticket, you are correct, we will lose. I get why you and many others find that a wasted vote. I understand the ramifications with the Supreme Court and all of it, I just can't give my stamp of approval to someone who I don't believe in.
You say that the power brokers dont have a stronger voice than the people. What people? Look at this country. See who is getting elected time after time? In all offices of the congress how many non Republican/Democrats are in office? Why is that? It sure sounds like the power brokers have a stronger voice than the people to me.

Now they do, because we don't use our voices. We don't believe in ourselves. We are too defeated to stand up and take back our country.
You see my good friend the power brokers control the board here. Their influence continues to be dominant in this land. YOu are very much a minority in this political mindfield. The people in this land do not want to live under a constitutional republic because that requires personal sacrifices and personal responsibility. The vast majority continue to elect who they do because these leaders just mirror the people who are being represented.

I don't disagree with any of this.
Therefore I look to the bigger issues here. The Political game is a lost cause. I will join with any morally minded person to fight for morality and virtue where ever it can be found.

But you just said in essence you will join with any morally minded person who is on a winning ticket.
To me the battle now being waged in our society is that of anti-Christ vs. Christ centered principles. Marriage is Christ centered. I will fight to keep its sacred nature in tact. Any issue that is Christ centered and moral I will fight for. Any that are anti-Christ I will fight against. Our future as a country is dependant on whether we stay moral and princpled. The political game is just a big distraction in this regard. Only a nation that has been founded on Christ centered princples will last. Otherwise our internal rot will set us up for a great fall. We will decay until the Lord uses a wicked surrogate to destroy a wicked nation. Isaiahs descrition of the last days Assyrian armies will be that surrogate. I will still fight for Christ centered principles even if it appears hopeless. Being a democrat or a republican or a third party person really doesn't matter in this overall battle for our survival as a nation. Only repentence and a return to morality and virtue can rescue us from the judgements of the Lord that will come upon us if we continue down the path we are on. Righteousness exalteth a nation. Wickedness will surely destroy it.
I completely agree with this. Only repentance will save us. Politics doesn't matter, so why not go down swinging, voting for principle and sleeping with a clear conscience? Why go to bed with the PTB if we believe it's a lost cause? I'll vote with my conscience and cross my fingers that the effort will snowball.

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Mark
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by Mark »

I'll vote with my conscience and cross my fingers that the effort will snowball.

Good on ya ChelC. I support your efforts to continue to fight the good fight. I will lend my support to any moral and constitutional based principle as well. I am a realist though and know that deliverence from this awful mess will only come thru an all out cleansing process initiated by our Lord. Our beloved constitutional principles will then return and be observed by a humbled but obedient people. I look forward to that day and hope to be a part of that process. I hope you are as well.

lundbaek
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by lundbaek »

Any opinions on how our beloved constitutional principles will then return and be observed by a humbled but obedient people? Are they going to come back by themselves? Will the Church initiate a program to bring it about, as Ezra Taft Benson suggested it would not? Will certain "elders of Israel" organize to restore constitutional government? Are LDG appointed puppets or any of the current crop of constitution shredders in the US FedGov going to repent and restore our country to a constitutional republic in the tradition of the Foundien Fathers? How are people going to be prepared and found to bring about that restoration? I still think some of you believe the Lord is going to do it all for us without any serious homework on our part.

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Mark
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by Mark »

Any opinions on how our beloved constitutional principles will then return and be observed by a humbled but obedient people?

I have one Lundbaek. It aint going to come from the corrupted political system we now have I can guarantee you that. Its called the millenium. Christ will be the great law giver and teacher. New Jeruselum will be established and Zion will return in all its glory. Out of Zion shall go forth the law. The principles of righteous government will be lived by a righteous people. Until then we will continue our downward spiral. This is Satans last stand. Those who think that the system can be fixed by a third party or a politician are just shuffling deck chairs on the titanic.

lundbaek
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by lundbaek »

Mark's suggested senario implies to me that we must wait until Christ comes and sets up a program of instruction and action for the elders of Israel, widely spread over the nation, to successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government. I think Ezra Taft Benson had a different idea. He said:

"The sad and shocking story of what has happened in America in recent years must be told. Our people must have the facts. There is safety in an informed public. There is real danger today. Yes, the truth must be told even at the risk of destroying, in large measure, the influence of men who are widely respected and loved by the American people. The stakes are high. Freedom and survival is the issue."

"For years we have heard of the role the elders could play in saving the Constitution from total destruction. But how can the elders be expected to save it if they have not studied it and are not sure if it is being destroyed or what is destroying it?"

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Mark
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by Mark »

You are missing my point here Lundbaek. I did not say that the Elders should just slack in their responsibility to study and be prepared for the return of righteous govt. What i said was that in this climate neither you nor anyone other man or women is going to change the direction of inevitable consequences from a lot of bad decisions this nation has made over the past several years. We will reap what we have sown. You are not going to change that. The prophets from Joseph on down have prophesied that this whirlwind will blow thru. After the reaping process has run its course then those events that I posted will occur and those prepared Elders will be ready to do what the Lord wants them to do. We who want to be found as this righteous remnant must be prepared to do our duty when that time comes. Until then Satan is allowed to maintain control of things as pertaining to govt. and politics.

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Bircher
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

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Leaving Satan to maintain control is NOT Gods will. He has commanded us time and again to fight against this evil, get it from over us, and become a Zion people. We cannot be a Zion people if we just sit back and let Satan dominate.

WE, that's right, LDS have allowed this happen. The Prophets have said what happens to America is up to the Priesthood, and it is up to the Priesthood to fix it. We must inlist others in the battle, and work with other "enlightened" individuals as the Prophets put it, but as His people, we must be on the front lines fighting Satan.

lundbaek
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by lundbaek »

Satan is allowed to maintain control of things as pertaining to govt. and politics only in so far as the Lord permits. The more we can bring to light the hidden things of darkness, the more people will see these things and awaken to our awful situation and the secret combination among us. And hopefully, more people will take preparedness more seriously. We may not be able to change the direction of inevitable consequences from a lot of bad decisions this nation has made over the past several years, but we certainly can reduce the magnitude of those consequences and provide guidance for others to also do so. It's called damage control.

One of my favourite historical examples of the danger of ignoring (or in this case the deliberate witholding) of warnings is the betrayal of Pearl Harbour. WW2 Admiral William Halsey, who was serving under Admiral Kimmel as one of three senior commanders of the Pacific Fleet on 12/07/41, wrote: "I did not know then of any of the pertinent Magic Messages …the mass of evidence made available to us pointed in another direction…Had we known of Japan's minute and continued interest in the exact location and movement of our ships in Pearl Harbor, as indicated in the Magic Messages , it is only logical that we would have concentrated our thought on meeting the practical certainty of an attack on Pearl Harbor." On another occasion he stated “I did not feel that we were well informed on what the Japs were doing and I felt we were operating in the dark. I had the personal feeling, entirely personal, that they knew a lot more in Washington than we knew out there and that we should have been informed....I recall vaguely discussions along that line and damning them for not letting us in on the information.” Also, had the 4 December 1941 "East Wind, Rain" message and its significcance been made known to the commanders on Hawaii, the attack could very possibly have been prevented, or certainly seriously blunted. (I spoke about this with the wife of the radio operator who received the message and forwarded it on to Washington, DC, and was muzzled for his entire USN career.)

To ignore the hidden things of daarkness as we discover them and let Satan and his LDGs have their way without opposition is just not my style.

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Mark
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by Mark »

For fear of being labeled a fatalist I will not pursue this with you guys but let me ask you a question Bircher. Your organization has been around for how many years? How close are you today to overturning the agenda of the power brokers in this country who control the media and the political arena? How much closer are we in this country to restoring constitutional principles in our govt today than we were several decades ago? If you think that this whole mess is going to turn around because the John Birch Society or any other political organization is out educating the public and successfully turning them back to constitutional based govt. then I have a house for you to buy with a mortgage that can be funded at 100% on an inflated appraisal with a 2% fixed interest loan for 30 years.

The prophets have prophesied for many decades what will happen prior to the second coming. Wickedness will INCREASE and Satan will gain MORE contol over the hearts of men. Do you honestly think that you are going to turn that all around because you and your few fellow Birchers keep telling people about the federal reserve corrupt system and the CFR/Trilateralist/ skull and bones/Illuminati conspiracy? I don't want to make light of your efforts to expose evil. I just think you are not being realistic as to what will actually turn this whole mess around. I really think if you look at things objectively you will see that only a cleansing and a renewal of spiritual proportions after that cleansing will do the trick here. The system entrenched today is fatally corrupted and the electorate are not going to return it back to a constitutionally based righteous system until the power of God is fully felt in the form of this cleansing. Sorry to be such a fatalist.

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masterdmjg
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by masterdmjg »

Bircher wrote:Leaving Satan to maintain control is NOT Gods will. He has commanded us time and again to fight against this evil, get it from over us, and become a Zion people. We cannot be a Zion people if we just sit back and let Satan dominate.

WE, that's right, LDS have allowed this happen. The Prophets have said what happens to America is up to the Priesthood, and it is up to the Priesthood to fix it. We must inlist others in the battle, and work with other "enlightened" individuals as the Prophets put it, but as His people, we must be on the front lines fighting Satan.
It's hard to know how exactly to lay the blame. I myself think there is way too much blaming going around, and not enough working. But to put it all on the LDS, I don't know if I'd go that far. I think Mark is just trying to say that he feels we need to fight Satan, but it is hard to be optimistic to say we are going to turn back the tide completely.

I think that is probably how Mormon and Moroni felt. They never stopped fighting evil, but they knew it was not amounting to much in their day.
Mormon 3:11-16
11 And it came to pass that I, Mormon, did utterly refuse from this time forth to be a commander and a leader of this people, because of their wickedness and abomination.
12 Behold, I had led them, notwithstanding their wickedness I had led them many times to battle, and had loved them, according to the love of God which was in me, with all my heart; and my soul had been poured out in prayer unto my God all the day long for them; nevertheless, it was without faith, because of the hardness of their hearts.
13 And thrice have I delivered them out of the hands of their enemies, and they have repented not of their sins.
14 And when they had sworn by all that had been forbidden them by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, that they would go up unto their enemies to battle, and avenge themselves of the blood of their brethren, behold the voice of the Lord came unto me, saying:
15 Vengeance is mine, and I will repay; and because this people repented not after I had delivered them, behold, they shall be cut off from the face of the earth.
16 And it came to pass that I utterly refused to go up against mine enemies; and I did even as the Lord had commanded me; and I did stand as an idle witness to manifest unto the world the things which I saw and heard, according to the manifestations of the Spirit which had testified of things to come.
Moroni 9:6
6 And now, my beloved son, notwithstanding their hardness, let us labor diligently; for if we should cease to labor, we should be brought under condemnation; for we have a labor to perform whilst in this tabernacle of clay, that we may conquer the enemy of all righteousness, and rest our souls in the kingdom of God.
We know the main difference between their day and ours, is that evil is defeated, eventually. Mark may be right - I don't know if it will be defeated until after some sort of sifting/cleansing process that will remove the wicked from among the righteous. We cannot stop combating evil, but his feelings are indeed justified. I think most of us feel similarly at times.

On the other hand, I think all three of you (bircher, Mark, lund), and many more on this forum (well, I think we all tend to do this, me included, to certain degrees), can be prone to take a very narrow view of things. There is so much evil in the world today, no doubt. But righteousness is marching forward, and increasing, as well. To only focus on all the evil, and become fatalistic, or blame the LDS people, is to turn a blind eye to a lot of what is going on in the world. We may not be able to change the whole course of the world anytime soon, but we can continue to be more and more obedient and righteous every day.

If we could all have this desire:
Mormon 3:22
22 And I would that I could persuade all ye ends of the earth to repent and prepare to stand before the judgment-seat of Christ.

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Mark
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by Mark »

On the other hand, I think all three of you (bircher, Mark, lund), and many more on this forum (well, I think we all tend to do this, me included, to certain degrees), can be prone to take a very narrow view of things. There is so much evil in the world today, no doubt. But righteousness is marching forward, and increasing, as well. To only focus on all the evil, and become fatalistic, or blame the LDS people, is to turn a blind eye to a lot of what is going on in the world. We may not be able to change the whole course of the world anytime soon, but we can continue to be more and more obedient and righteous every day.

Thanks for that clarification master. I want of also clarify that I am not talking in my fatalistic responses in terms of the Lords agenda and the direction of his kingdom. I am very optomistic about the mission of that Kingdom and know that wonderful things are in store for us in that regard. I am talking specifically about govt. and political items here. I just do not think that we will turn the tide of the horrible decisions made over the last several decades leading us away from constitutional principles. In that realm we will have to pay the piper and experience some pain and suffering before things return to the way they are meant to be. To me it is akin to thinking that the United Nations is going to solve all the worlds problems and lead us into peace and prosperity. No way Jose. We will reap what we have sown politically and economically.

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Bircher
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by Bircher »

masterdmjg wrote:
Bircher wrote:Leaving Satan to maintain control is NOT Gods will. He has commanded us time and again to fight against this evil, get it from over us, and become a Zion people. We cannot be a Zion people if we just sit back and let Satan dominate.

WE, that's right, LDS have allowed this happen. The Prophets have said what happens to America is up to the Priesthood, and it is up to the Priesthood to fix it. We must inlist others in the battle, and work with other "enlightened" individuals as the Prophets put it, but as His people, we must be on the front lines fighting Satan.
It's hard to know how exactly to lay the blame. I myself think there is way too much blaming going around, and not enough working. But to put it all on the LDS, I don't know if I'd go that far. I think Mark is just trying to say that he feels we need to fight Satan, but it is hard to be optimistic to say we are going to turn back the tide completely.

I think that is probably how Mormon and Moroni felt. They never stopped fighting evil, but they knew it was not amounting to much in their day.
Mormon 3:11-16
11 And it came to pass that I, Mormon, did utterly refuse from this time forth to be a commander and a leader of this people, because of their wickedness and abomination.
12 Behold, I had led them, notwithstanding their wickedness I had led them many times to battle, and had loved them, according to the love of God which was in me, with all my heart; and my soul had been poured out in prayer unto my God all the day long for them; nevertheless, it was without faith, because of the hardness of their hearts.
13 And thrice have I delivered them out of the hands of their enemies, and they have repented not of their sins.
14 And when they had sworn by all that had been forbidden them by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, that they would go up unto their enemies to battle, and avenge themselves of the blood of their brethren, behold the voice of the Lord came unto me, saying:
15 Vengeance is mine, and I will repay; and because this people repented not after I had delivered them, behold, they shall be cut off from the face of the earth.
16 And it came to pass that I utterly refused to go up against mine enemies; and I did even as the Lord had commanded me; and I did stand as an idle witness to manifest unto the world the things which I saw and heard, according to the manifestations of the Spirit which had testified of things to come.
Moroni 9:6
6 And now, my beloved son, notwithstanding their hardness, let us labor diligently; for if we should cease to labor, we should be brought under condemnation; for we have a labor to perform whilst in this tabernacle of clay, that we may conquer the enemy of all righteousness, and rest our souls in the kingdom of God.
We know the main difference between their day and ours, is that evil is defeated, eventually. Mark may be right - I don't know if it will be defeated until after some sort of sifting/cleansing process that will remove the wicked from among the righteous. We cannot stop combating evil, but his feelings are indeed justified. I think most of us feel similarly at times.

On the other hand, I think all three of you (bircher, Mark, lund), and many more on this forum (well, I think we all tend to do this, me included, to certain degrees), can be prone to take a very narrow view of things. There is so much evil in the world today, no doubt. But righteousness is marching forward, and increasing, as well. To only focus on all the evil, and become fatalistic, or blame the LDS people, is to turn a blind eye to a lot of what is going on in the world. We may not be able to change the whole course of the world anytime soon, but we can continue to be more and more obedient and righteous every day.

If we could all have this desire:
Mormon 3:22
22 And I would that I could persuade all ye ends of the earth to repent and prepare to stand before the judgment-seat of Christ.
I am being misunderstood. I am not the fatalist. I know we can change this around. When I speak of the LDS to blame, it is to blame for the progression of good and evil.

The Gospel leads to a better world, which we clearly have over before the Gospel was restored, but BOTH are increasing (ETB OCT 1988), and the Prophets said what happens here, good and bad is up to the LDS.

I am very optimistic about how it turns out, what I am concerned about is all of my brothers and sisters in the gospel who refuse to heed the words of the Lord.

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Bircher
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

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Mark wrote:For fear of being labeled a fatalist I will not pursue this with you guys but let me ask you a question Bircher. Your organization has been around for how many years? How close are you today to overturning the agenda of the power brokers in this country who control the media and the political arena? How much closer are we in this country to restoring constitutional principles in our govt today than we were several decades ago? If you think that this whole mess is going to turn around because the John Birch Society or any other political organization is out educating the public and successfully turning them back to constitutional based govt. then I have a house for you to buy with a mortgage that can be funded at 100% on an inflated appraisal with a 2% fixed interest loan for 30 years.

The prophets have prophesied for many decades what will happen prior to the second coming. Wickedness will INCREASE and Satan will gain MORE contol over the hearts of men. Do you honestly think that you are going to turn that all around because you and your few fellow Birchers keep telling people about the federal reserve corrupt system and the CFR/Trilateralist/ skull and bones/Illuminati conspiracy? I don't want to make light of your efforts to expose evil. I just think you are not being realistic as to what will actually turn this whole mess around. I really think if you look at things objectively you will see that only a cleansing and a renewal of spiritual proportions after that cleansing will do the trick here. The system entrenched today is fatally corrupted and the electorate are not going to return it back to a constitutionally based righteous system until the power of God is fully felt in the form of this cleansing. Sorry to be such a fatalist.

You say you will not engage in this any more than ask a question?? You have made up your mind on this and no matter what I or anyone else says can change that.

I can just bear my witness to the fact that we have had great victories which have made you more free, and we will have total victory here in the USA BEFORE the Savior comes again.

The only question is; what did we do to fight on His side?

Here is some brief evidence to what the Lord through His servants have said on the matter
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... +in+heaven

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Bircher
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by Bircher »

I am not blaming the LDS, the Lords Prophet is

"a good deal of the responsibility lies with the priesthood of this Church as to what happens to America " ETB Gen Conf April 1965

I agree with you master, there is too much talk, that's why I am involved in taking action with others across the country in action to help others know what makes America a nation worth preserving, why we are special, and what we can do to keep those aspects that have made it so.

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Mark
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by Mark »

I am referring here to Babylon and its wicked system. Unless you think the Birchers are going to defeat that system of babylon I would be very interested in you telling me what you think is going to defeat that system other than the Savior and his righteous army.

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Bircher
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by Bircher »

For those of you thinking that the JBS hasn't been able to accomplish anything over the past 50 years, here are just a few of the highlights;

• Exposed the attack on Christmas as early as the 1960’s and stopped national department stores from using the UN symbol and themes instead of traditional Christmas themes, trying to make it a pagan holiday
• Stopped United Airlines from putting the UN symbol on the aircrafts 1960-61
• Our first ad hoc committee (The Committee Against Summit Entanglements) prevented President Eisenhower from further legitimizing the Soviet Union.
• Stopped the movement for a “national police” in the 1960’s & ‘70’s
• Stopped the Warren Court with our “Impeach Earl Warren” campaign
• “Home-schooling” was an Alaska wilderness phenomenon until The New American promoted the idea. Today, at least 1,500,000 children are now home-schooled and 1 in 5 are in private education of some type.
• Stopped the implementation of the Declaration of Interdependence in1976
• Lead the way to stop the ERA
• Stopped attempts at a “Constitutional Convention” three times.
• Educating People on the dangers of the UN, which has led to legislation ending our membership in the organization with increasing votes every time it comes to a vote.
• Impeached Bill Clinton. First Impeachment of a President since the 1800’s. The JBS was even credited by the Washington Post, & USA Today.
• Prevented subversive, Anthony Lake, from being the head of the CIA
• Stopped the subversive Earth Charter, the "New Ten Commandments" for the US.
• Stopped the Free Trade Area of the America’s before its planned implementation date of January 2005, forcing them downscale to a North American Union
• 19 states introduce JBS authored resolutions against the North American Union
• Postponed NAU plans to at least 2013, back from the original 2010 date

There are many more national victories, and literally countless local victories that I could mention, but will leave it at this.

More lovers of freedom are needed to solidify some of these victories. If everyone "awake" had been involved, instead of constantly saying "it is too late" as far back as the 1960's, things would be far better off.

Things in America are from from lost.

This "it is prophesied and there is nothing we can do about it" stuff is so anti scriptural, I can't believe it is found in the LDS community. It stems from an evangelist in the 1800's attempting to remove Christians from being involved in fighting against increasing evil in the world. "The Rapture Cult" is a must read for all lovers of God and the free He has given us.

Elder Eyring spoke this last conference on this attitude of giving up to a false fate.
http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/ ... -7,00.html

Possibilities are improving every day, we only have to have the faith to do what we have been commanded to do.

lundbaek
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by lundbaek »

Mark, I cannot believe that you really believe what you seem to believe, namely that we are wasting our time and whatever resources we invest in bringing to light hidden things of darkness, wherein we know them. You complain often of not being understood. I hope that misunderstanding is only due to your not adequately explaining yourself. You seem to me bent on disuading others from taking any positive action to minimize the damage that the LDGs intend to do to us and our country.

Things look bad, to be sure. And many of us focus a lot on these bad things with good reason. We want to protect ourselves against the ravages of the LDGs who create them. Fortunately, a relatively small group of American patriots have tried in recent decades to warn us of these things. The response of the general populace to their efforts reminds me of a large group of people running straight toward an abyss. They cannot see it and/or don’t want to see it. Then there are those LDSs who think the Lord is going to catch them when they fall over the edge. But the people who recognize the danger they are heading toward will have a better chance of minimizing the damage by taking evasive action or strapping on a parachute or something. That in itself is progress. It is people like those who have, for example, slowed down the progress of the NAU, and who have at least reduced the influx of illegals. I'm sure Bircher can list many more things accomplished by just the JBS.

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Bircher
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by Bircher »

Mark wrote:I am referring here to Babylon and its wicked system. Unless you think the Birchers are going to defeat that system of babylon I would be very interested in you telling me what you think is going to defeat that system other than the Savior and his righteous army.
That kind of hate, and purposeful mis characterization shows what kind of spirit is in your intent in this conversation.

As I said before, it is clear you have no desire to understand or to build, only to insult and tear down.

God has told us what needs to be done, and telling others it can't be done is not it.

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ChelC
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by ChelC »

Thanks for that clarification master. I want of also clarify that I am not talking in my fatalistic responses in terms of the Lords agenda and the direction of his kingdom. I am very optomistic about the mission of that Kingdom and know that wonderful things are in store for us in that regard. I am talking specifically about govt. and political items here. I just do not think that we will turn the tide of the horrible decisions made over the last several decades leading us away from constitutional principles. In that realm we will have to pay the piper and experience some pain and suffering before things return to the way they are meant to be. To me it is akin to thinking that the United Nations is going to solve all the worlds problems and lead us into peace and prosperity. No way Jose. We will reap what we have sown politically and economically.
Mark, I share many of these feelings. What I don't understand is what you hope to accomplish by voting with the GOP. You say we're too far gone to bring back the govt without a great fall (which I also believe) and yet, you think you are more effective voting republican to keep dems out? This doesn't make sense to me. Your very reasons for telling people not to vote 3rd party/idealistically are the same reasons that if true make your vote just as meaningless. Do you really believe that if the PTB have as much control as you think, that your voting McCain is going to make one whit of difference? If they are as powerful as you believe then why would Palin be anything more than a prop? Why not work on the education so that when the system does fail there will be enough educated about proper government to restore it? Why not vote 3rd party and hope and pray that it catches on? If our votes are meaningless anyhow.

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Mark
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Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by Mark »

Geez Bircher give me a break. You act like I'm insulting everything near and dear to you. Lighten up man. You and Lundbaek need to take a chill pill here. If you both think that the John Birch Society is going to overcome the beast and return the govt back to a constitutional republic where people adhere to those principles thats fine and dandy. I think you are both dreaming but thats just my opinion. Babylon has far to great a hold on this society and only after the Lords cleansing power will He bring that beast it to its knees. I could give you dozens upon dozens of scriptures and prophesies from the early Brethren that back that up but you are obviously way to touchy about your Organizations goals to see anything else that may put a damper on your zeal. I applaud anyone who wants to fight for freedom and liberty but I also know that your efforts and those of your fellow Birchers will not change the events that surely will come to pass up to the coming of the Lord. I am not insulting your organization for petes sake. I am just telling you what has been prophesied and foretold for ages. Babylon must fall. It will only happen after a cleansing and a rebirth directed by the Lord and his servants in the Priesthood. Thats just the way it is.

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Mark
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6929

Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by Mark »

I never said that I was voting for McCain here ChelC. He is a poliwhore on many issues. I will vote for that person best qualified to maintain some type of moral compass this nation desparately needs. I was leaning towards Barr but now you guys are trashing the heck out of him because He and Paul are at odds I guess. Whats a mother to do? :? I have said that I would take anyone over Obama and Biden because they are death much quicker to any chance for the republic to stand. They both scare the crap out of me. Either way the cleansing is just around the corner. The Assyrians are putting on their war paint. They will probable attack during an American Idol episode for optimal dumb down effect.

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Bircher
captain of 100
Posts: 909
Location: Utah

Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by Bircher »

Mark wrote:Geez Bircher give me a break. You act like I'm insulting everything near and dear to you. Lighten up man. You and Lundbaek need to take a chill pill here. If you both think that the John Birch Society is going to overcome the beast and return the govt back to a constitutional republic where people adhere to those principles thats fine and dandy. I think you are both dreaming but thats just my opinion. Babylon has far to great a hold on this society and only after the Lords cleansing power will He bring that beast it to its knees. I could give you dozens upon dozens of scriptures and prophesies from the early Brethren that back that up but you are obviously way to touchy about your Organizations goals to see anything else that may put a damper on your zeal. I applaud anyone who wants to fight for freedom and liberty but I also know that your efforts and those of your fellow Birchers will not change the events that surely will come to pass up to the coming of the Lord. I am not insulting your organization for petes sake. I am just telling you what has been prophesied and foretold for ages. Babylon must fall. It will only happen after a cleansing and a rebirth directed by the Lord and his servants in the Priesthood. Thats just the way it is.
There you go again. perpetuating a straw man so you can look all wise and important tearing down a false notion. Good job.

Your interpretation of scripture is based on a lie perpetuated by Satan through the ages, and debunked by all modern Prophets.

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shadow
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Posts: 10542
Location: St. George

Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by shadow »

Mark wrote:They will probable attack during an American Idol episode for optimal dumb down effect.
I just hope the TV stations are considerate enough to show the BREAKING NEWS during a commercial. I hate it when they cut into the shows I'm watching.

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ChelC
The Law
Posts: 5982
Location: Utah

Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by ChelC »

Touche. I can't disagree. For the record though I was distrustful of Barr before he and Paul had some kind of rift.

Here is a copy and paste of my post on Barr a couple weeks ago:
Hmmm... here are some problems I'm having with him:

He has questionable things in his past like possible affairs and his then wife having an abortion, that as far as I know he has never seemed repentant about, even though he claims to be pro life. The three marriages, and rumors surrounding him have to make you wonder a little. I definitely get the heebie geebies (how do you spell that?) from him. He voted for the patriot act and later regretted it - at least he saw the light. He wrote the defense of marriage act and then later apologized about the limits on gay marriage. I'm just not certain that he's consistent in defending proper government. I'd be okay with that if I learned he'd had some enlightening experience that clarified his views, since my own have certainly undergone a major transformation in the last few years. As far as I know that isn't the case.
I am right now waffling between Baldwin and "none"

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Bircher
captain of 100
Posts: 909
Location: Utah

Re: Meet Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's VP Pick

Post by Bircher »

Not an LDS based book, but an important read none the less. ANyone interested in the truth about how this false doctrine of it "being too late" came from, must read this book. Here it is to read, free of charge

http://reformed-theology.org/html/books ... index.html

I am putting together a LDS based paper debunking this whole ridiculous and selfish notion of just letting God sort things out, and will post it when I am finished.

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