Good thing the few that would allow it can't do it anyways :ymapplause:ebenezerarise wrote:How many gay parents do you think would allow a child to be baptized in the Mormon Church?Stahura wrote:A desire to NOT turn away a child from Christ because of the lifestyle of parents of that child is NOT choosing to follow Lucifer, sorry bud.
How many of these children do you really think will get baptized when they are 18? Good luck. They will most likely be bitter towards the church by then :ymapplause:
I know many and I cannot think of one who would consider it for even a second. Not one.
I want to fight the exclusion policy
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Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy
- Elizabeth
- Level 34 Illuminated
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Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy
There are many, including myself who were adults when baptised into the LDS Church.
- jockeybox
- captain of 100
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Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy
What you type feels far removed from the gospel Christ preach from the Sermon on the mount.Elizabeth wrote:There is no compromise nor discussion to be had on the matter of the evils of homosexuality. That it is of Lucifer is a given. The choice is clear, if your choice is to follow Lucifer then leave the LDS Church, LDS members, and other Christians and take the consequences of the way you have chosen.
Like I said, you might be offended by the above. and probably just ignore it. But I would encourage some empathy for those that you say are following Lucifer. One day, you may need their help.
- jockeybox
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Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy
The policy encourages promiscuity of both unfaithful (or adulterous) hetros and homosexuals so that their kids can still be baptized. The hammer swings more heavily on open gay couples.boo wrote:Why indeed. Why would God deprive his children of the saving ordinances if all involved including his parents wanted him to have them and would actively support him ? Why can a child living in the home of his sexually active and promiscuous lesbian mother have the saving ordinances but not a child living in the home of two committed stable gay parents? Why is an innocent child being deprived of the saving ordinances by the Church because of the life style choices of his parents ?
The policy also suggests that as long as we are polished properly on the outside (i.e. hiding your sins), you fine staying in the church.
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Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy
You and I see homosexuality differently. We see sin differently too.ebenezerarise wrote:There's plenty of "room" for those who have different standards than the Lord. "In my Father's House there are many mansions..."zionminded wrote:Here is my position on the subject.
But you really expect the Lord to bestow his highest blessings -- which begin at baptism -- upon those who demand things contrary to His plan?
The gay community will most certainly demand nothing less than exaltation.
I fail to see how God can do that.
What we have here is cultural belief that gay "sex" is evil in all forms, all ways, near murder, and all versions are the same. Heterosexual sins are different in LDS circles, a shade of grey, from masterbation, to petting, premarital sex in various forms, to adultery. We vary Heterosexual sins by their impact on the individual or others. We don't vary homosexual sins at all, or very, very little.
- Elizabeth
- Level 34 Illuminated
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- Location: East Coast Australia
Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy
Hell would freeze over first, (figuratively) and even then NO WAY!
jockeybox wrote:What you type feels far removed from the gospel Christ preach from the Sermon on the mount.Elizabeth wrote:There is no compromise nor discussion to be had on the matter of the evils of homosexuality. That it is of Lucifer is a given. The choice is clear, if your choice is to follow Lucifer then leave the LDS Church, LDS members, and other Christians and take the consequences of the way you have chosen.
Like I said, you might be offended by the above. and probably just ignore it. But I would encourage some empathy for those that you say are following Lucifer. One day, you may need their help.
- jockeybox
- captain of 100
- Posts: 620
- Location: McKinney, TX
Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy
You wouldn't extend or receive help from someone because they are gay?Elizabeth wrote:Hell would freeze over first, (figuratively) and even then NO WAY!
- Elizabeth
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 11796
- Location: East Coast Australia
Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy
I do not acknowledge the meaning you are attributing to that stolen word, nor do I nor would I ever use it in such context.
If you are referring to those who practice the abominable evil acts of homosexuality then I assure you I have no association with any such person nor do I intend to.
If you are referring to those who practice the abominable evil acts of homosexuality then I assure you I have no association with any such person nor do I intend to.
- gkearney
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 5364
Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy
Oh I doubt that you have "no association" with homosexuals, statistically you have to. Homosexuals make up about 3.8% of the U.S. adult population, similar percentages are found in most other developed nations. In a typical LDS ward of 400 people this means that there are 15 homosexuals. This also means that you are encountering homosexuals all the time you just don't know it. Better check under the bed, they're everywhere,Elizabeth wrote:I do not acknowledge the meaning you are attributing to that stolen word, nor do I nor would I ever use it in such context.
If you are referring to those who practice the abominable evil acts of homosexuality then I assure you I have no association with any such person nor do I intend to.
- Elizabeth
- Level 34 Illuminated
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- Location: East Coast Australia
Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy
Come back to Australia Greg, you have been too long in California.
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Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy
Actually when in a different universe as bishop I had a number of gay parents in my ward. They ALL wanted their children to be baptized and raised with the blessings of the gospel I concede that not many nonmember would want that for their underage children but the bulk of the members probably soon to be non members do want that for their children. Obviously the 15 must think so too or they never would have come up with the policy. If this wasn't happening there would be no need for the policy would there !ebenezerarise wrote:How many gay parents do you think would allow a child to be baptized in the Mormon Church?Stahura wrote:A desire to NOT turn away a child from Christ because of the lifestyle of parents of that child is NOT choosing to follow Lucifer, sorry bud.
How many of these children do you really think will get baptized when they are 18? Good luck. They will most likely be bitter towards the church by then :ymapplause:
I know many and I cannot think of one who would consider it for even a second. Not one.
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Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy
The policy is consistent with Scripture as well as cultural norms to respect the decisions of the parents.
You cannot baptize a minor with nonmember parents, unless they give consent. That goes for EVERYONE.
The policy states simply two things:
1. Those living in a same sex relationship akin to marriage or cohabitation are commiting apostasy and thus are open to excommunication.
2. Those children living within a same sex relationship akin to marriage or cohabitation won't be baptized until they are 18 and understand that the Church doctrines run counter to the parents' lifestyle.
It is the responsibility of the PARENTS to teach their children the doctrine of repentance and of baptism when they are eight years old. Since the same sex parents cannot teach this doctrine to the children because they are not living what they are teaching, the sin falls on the parents. It's straight out of the D&C people.
You cannot baptize a minor with nonmember parents, unless they give consent. That goes for EVERYONE.
The policy states simply two things:
1. Those living in a same sex relationship akin to marriage or cohabitation are commiting apostasy and thus are open to excommunication.
2. Those children living within a same sex relationship akin to marriage or cohabitation won't be baptized until they are 18 and understand that the Church doctrines run counter to the parents' lifestyle.
It is the responsibility of the PARENTS to teach their children the doctrine of repentance and of baptism when they are eight years old. Since the same sex parents cannot teach this doctrine to the children because they are not living what they are teaching, the sin falls on the parents. It's straight out of the D&C people.
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Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy
This post made me very sad. Sounds very much like these scriptures I posted below.
16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?
17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Luke 15:2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
Mark 2Elizabeth wrote:
If you are referring to those who practice the abominable evil acts of homosexuality then I assure you I have no association with any such person nor do I intend to.
16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?
17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Luke 15:2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
- gkearney
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 5364
Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy
While it is true that Australians do not talk about private sexual matters as freely as folks in the U.S. seem to, the fact remains that even in the land downunder about 3.8% of the population are homosexuals and you can't avoid interaction with them. You may not know that your bank teller, school teacher, or bus driver is a homosexual but your still associating with homosexuals all the time.Elizabeth wrote::D Come back to Australia Greg, you have been too long in California.
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Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy
[quote ]"gkearney"
Oh I doubt that you have "no association" with homosexuals, statistically you have to. Homosexuals make up about 3.8% of the U.S. adult population, similar percentages are found in most other developed nations. In a typical LDS ward of 400 people this means that there are 15 homosexuals. This also means that you are encountering homosexuals all the time you just don't know it. Better check under the bed, they're everywhere,[/quote]
I had no idea you statistically have 15 homosexuals per LDS ward! That's a lot higher than I imagined. Is this some new trend or do you know if ancient cultures had similar proportions?
Oh I doubt that you have "no association" with homosexuals, statistically you have to. Homosexuals make up about 3.8% of the U.S. adult population, similar percentages are found in most other developed nations. In a typical LDS ward of 400 people this means that there are 15 homosexuals. This also means that you are encountering homosexuals all the time you just don't know it. Better check under the bed, they're everywhere,[/quote]
I had no idea you statistically have 15 homosexuals per LDS ward! That's a lot higher than I imagined. Is this some new trend or do you know if ancient cultures had similar proportions?
- gkearney
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 5364
Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy
The standard figure of homosexuals in the adult population of the United States and other developed nations is 3.8%. Given that LDS as a group tend to follow the general population trends in most things, drinking and smoking being exceptions but even then not by that much. For example, while it is true that LDS in the intermountain region of the U.S. have more children than the general population that figure is only by a fraction of a child and LDS outside of the intermountain region have no more children than the general population. Indeed in some European nations LDS members have fewer children than the general population. Taking everything into account church members are remarkably the same, statistically speaking, to the general populations that surround them.butterfly wrote:I had no idea you statistically have 15 homosexuals per LDS ward! That's a lot higher than I imagined. Is this some new trend or do you know if ancient cultures had similar proportions?
A typical ward will have 400 adult members so 3.8% of 400 = 15.2. Rounded downward that gives us 15 homosexual persons, on average, per ward.
Now these are averages some wards in urban areas will have more, wards in rural areas less. We are not talking about sexual activity here either just the numbers of homosexuals as a percentage of population overall.
- jockeybox
- captain of 100
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- Location: McKinney, TX
Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy
Well, if you're not willing to mourn with those that have reason to mourn, they can come by my house for a bite to eat and a laugh. I bet there are some things I could learn from them.Elizabeth wrote:I do not acknowledge the meaning you are attributing to that stolen word, nor do I nor would I ever use it in such context.
If you are referring to those who practice the abominable evil acts of homosexuality then I assure you I have no association with any such person nor do I intend to.
- Elizabeth
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 11796
- Location: East Coast Australia
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Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy
We can all learn from anyone.jockeybox wrote:Well, if you're not willing to mourn with those that have reason to mourn, they can come by my house for a bite to eat and a laugh. I bet there are some things I could learn from them.Elizabeth wrote:I do not acknowledge the meaning you are attributing to that stolen word, nor do I nor would I ever use it in such context.
If you are referring to those who practice the abominable evil acts of homosexuality then I assure you I have no association with any such person nor do I intend to.