Lundbaek

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Re: Lundbaek

Postby lundbaek » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:21 pm

There are some things I have discovered which certain scriptures and certain statements by prophets and apostles have reinforced with great significance to me, but which I don’t really like to talk about except in very private settings. One of these things was discussed recently on at least 2 different occasions that I know of by President Packer. I first came across it over 2 years ago in a published talk that he gave at BYU in January 2007. Then I found it again, word for word I believe, in the August 2010 Ensign magazine. So I assume it is important. In reading it carefully I note 2 separate things that we are commanded to do. They are not just good ideas; ...they are commandments. I refer to the full paragraph at the bottom right side of Page 23 of the August Ensign. It begins, “We live in a time of war, that spiritual war that will never end....” I’ll leave it to you to check it out.
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Re: Lundbaek

Postby lundbaek » Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:36 pm

Last week an LDS acquaintance told me she will be speaking this coming Sunday in her ward about the Book of Mormon. That got me thinking "What if I were asked to speak in church about the Book of Mormon and how it has effected me and my life? What would I want to say? What could I say?" So I parked myself in front of the screen here as time permitted over the last 3 days, and managed to hunt and peck out the following.

My first encounter with the Book of Mormon occurred over 51 years ago on a rainy day when I could find nothing more exciting to do than browse thru the stacks of a library. I checked the book out and began reading it. The words testimony and witness were not part of my regular vocabulary back then. I simply knew the book I was reading was a true account of God’s dealings with some people who had lived a long time ago, and that it contained messages that made good sense and appealed to me. Now I’m not an easy person to put something over on, as a few politicians have found out the hard way. But as I read the story of how Joseph Smith saw and was spoken to by both God the Father and His Beloved Son, Jesus the Christ, again, it made perfect sense to me. For a while, the tricky part was finding the Church that it belonged to.

The Book of Mormon is replete with messages surely selected by God to help bring about the immortality and eternal life of all of us. I’d like to share some of those messages that have had profound influence on me.

The most important message to me in the Book of Mormon is that In our premortal state, Jesus Christ became our foreordained Savior in the Father’s plan of salvation. (See
Mosiah 4:6–7; Alma 34:9.) He is the captain of our salvation and the only means through whom we can return to our Father in Heaven to gain that fulness of joy of immortality and eternal life.
For me the most effective speaker about the Book of Mormon among Church General Authorities was President Ezra Taft Benson. While Prophet and President of the Church, Ezra Taft Benson testified that The Book of Mormon brings men to Christ through two basic means. First, he stated, it tells in a plain manner of Christ and His gospel. I think most Latter-day Saints who have seriously read the Book of Mormon would agree that it has helped them draw closer to Christ, and that it has been a catalyst for change for the better in their lives. As a witness for the divinity and mission of Jesus Christ and our covenant relationship to him, it shows us how to become more like Christ. To bring men to Christ and to be reconciled to him. It teaches us things that we must do to live with God some day.
But President Benson called attention to another way in which the Book of Mormon brings men to Christ. Secondly, the Prophet said, the Book of Mormon exposes the enemies of Christ. It stands as a warning to our generations as it exposes the enemies of Christ and of righteousness so effectively. That may sound daft at first, but in order to more fully emulate Christ. a person needs to know not only how to BE, but also how NOT TO BE. Or put another way, what to BECOME, and also what NOT TO BECOME. The Book of Mormon is a great teacher in that respect.

The Book of Mormon is replete with commandments with which we need to comply in order to prepare ourselves for the blessings of immortality and eternal life. In that connection, the Prophet Joseph Smith once stated, He [the Lord] never will institute an ordinance or give a commandment to His people that is not calculated in its nature to promote that happiness which He has designed, and which will not end in the greatest amount of good and glory to those who become the recipients of His law and ordinances. And in the Book of Mormon we learn from Nephi that the Lord giveth no commandment unto the children of men, save He shall prepare a way that they may accomplish the thing which He commandeth them. The Book of Mormon relates many good examples of obedience to commandments of the Lord that not only brought great blessings to the faithful, but also contributed greatly to the gospel going forth to various peoples in the world. And the Book of Mormon also documents the agonies and ultimate demise of two once great civilizations on the American continent due to disobedience to the Lord’s guidance and commandments. No other written testament so clearly illustrates the fact that when men and nations walk in the fear of God and in obedience to His commandments, they prosper and grow, but when they disregard Him and His word, there comes a decay that, unless arrested by righteousness, leads to impotence and death. The Book of Mormon is an affirmation of the Old Testament proverb: Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people ( Proverbs 14:34). And I want to interject here that To keep God’s commandments requires a specific knowledge of what those commandments are. So how do we LDSs measure up, we who have far greater understanding of God’s commandments, have the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, have the priesthood, have the Holy Ghost, and consequently have greater incentive as well as greater responsibility to do the things God has asked or commanded us to do? And I have to remind myself often enough that God’s commandments are not just some kind of smorgasbord of divine rules from which I can just pick and choose. And again, To keep God’s commandments requires a specific knowledge of what those commandments are.

From the Book of Mormon I have learned that America is a choice land, foreordained to be a land of liberty, (See 2 Ne. 1:5.) and will be a blessed land unto the righteous forever and is the base from which God will continue to direct the worldwide latter-day operations of His kingdom. (See 2 Ne. 1:7.) I have always been thrilled by the brief account of the discovery and colonizing of America thru the power of God. (See 1 Nephi 13) But I note the Book of Mormon warns us that those inhabitants of this land who do not serve God will eventually be swept off from the land. In fact, Moroni spelled that out in 3 consecutive verses in the Book of Ether. (See Ether 2:8,9,10) The Book of Mormon warns us of certain threats to our modern American nation and commands us to guard against those threats and to protect the freedoms we have. In that connection, I recall President Benson telling us that The Book of Mormon contains no conspiracy theories. It contains conspiracy fact.

It is clear in the Book of Mormon that the Lord will fulfill His covenants that he has made with His faithful, regardless of Lucifer’s efforts to thwart Him. But if I understand Moroni correctly, He does not absolve Latter-day Saints from their responsibility of doing everything within their power to protect America’s freedom. In fact, we are advised in D&C134:1 that He holds men accountable for their acts in relation to them [governments] both in making laws and administering them.
Another of the great messages of the Book of Mormon is that freedom, upon which our free agency is dependent, is hard to come by. And we are warned, especially by the Lord thru Moroni in Ether Chapter 8, that once freedom is obtained, it must not be lost.
If we as Latter-day Saints think that this warning is directed just against our gentile neighbors, we should ask ourselves how they could be responsible for this divine mandate when they don’t even know it exists. This means that the burden is on US much more than it is on our fellow citizens, which is fair enough. The ball is clearly in our court.

We also learn from the Book of Mormon that Lucifer is the enemy of all righteousness and seeks to bring about the misery of all mankind. (See 2 Ne. 2:18, 27; Mosiah 4:14.) The Lord has warned us thru Moroni and Nephi that this nation is beset by secret combinations like those in ancient America that sought and acquired great wealth and control of government at the expense of the righteous. In the October 1988 General Conference, President Benson told us that Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world. (See Ether 8:18–25, 2 Nephi 26:22) But in the Book of Mormon we learn that God will provide strength for the righteous and the means of escape; and eventually and finally truth will triumph. (See 1 Ne. 22:15–23.) But we need to keep in mind the commandments given us thru Moroni that we awake to a sense of the awful situation caused by the secret combinations and suffer not that they get above us. (See Ether 8: 23-24) Again, that puts the ball squarely in our court.The Book of Mormon also serves as a warning about the deceptions of atheists and agnostics who make non-belief their religion and attack faith and belief. In that connection, President Packer’s article in the August 2010 Ensign magazine tells us they are now organized, they pursue political power, we will be hearing more from them, and much of their attack is indirect in mocking the faithful, in mocking religion. I highly recommend a careful study of that entire article .

And very importantly, We learn that God will give rewards to each according to the deeds done in the flesh. (See Alma 5:15.)

A couple more gems of wisdom about the Book of Mormon:

President Hinkley once stated that The Book of Mormon narrative is a chronicle of nations long since gone. But in its descriptions of the problems of today’s society, it is as current as the morning newspaper and much more definitive, inspired, and inspiring concerning the solutions of those problems.

The Prophet Joseph Smith said that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.

I testify that the Book of Mormon is the word of God. Jesus is the Christ. Joseph Smith was His prophet. Thomas Monson is His prophet now. And that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true.
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Re: Lundbaek

Postby Songbird » Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:06 pm

Looking Forward wrote:Lundbaek, that was a wonderful talk! Thank you! I would like to share your talk and this whole thread with a few family members (via email as I KNOW they will not come to this site :roll: ) if that is ok with you. You are a wealth of priceless information, thank you again for sharing your talk.



Did you ever answer this question? I too, would like to copy it for reference and sharing....
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Re: Lundbaek

Postby lundbaek » Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:17 pm

Anybody is free to share anything I post here. And I do appreciate your asking. It's nice to know that some people care about these things.
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Re: Lundbaek

Postby lundbaek » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:55 am

I have heard Church members and local leaders say that the time is not now for concerning ourselves about secret combinations bent on destroying our freedoms, even though we were given a reminder of them by President Packer as recently as August of this year. (Ensign magazine, Pg. 23) I have just compiled the following for the purpose of defending my concern about the neglect by Church members of our responsibility to awake to and oppose the works of secret combinations that are destroying our nation. The statements in bold print are plagerism with some minor modification of the words of Dr. W. Cleon Skousen, who devoted a portion of his life to studying, investigating, and exposing secret combinations, in his audio commentary Treasures of the Book of Mormon. I think the words of Dr. Skousen carry credibility, whereas any commentary of mine would be considered by most to be mostly a bunch of bunk.


In Ether 8 is an editorial comment by Moroni about the curse of secret combinations.
Ether 8
19) For the lord worketh not in secret combinations, neither doth he will that man should shed blood, but I all things hath forbidden it, from the beginning of man.
20) And now I, Moroni, do not write the manner of their oaths and combinations, for it hath been made known unto me that they are had among all people, and they are had among the Lamanites.
21) And they have caused the destruction of this people of whom I am now speaking, and also the destruction of the people of Nephi.
22) And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will not suffer that the blood of his saints, which shall be shed by them, shall always cry unto him from the ground for vengeance upon them and yet he avenge them not.

Moroni saw the historical tragedy of allowing those secret combinations to steal into the Jaredite society, since this was the same kind of secret combination that had annihilated the Nephites. Moroni also knew from the prophecies of the future that the Gentiles in the promised land of the latter days would also be afflicted by the curse of secret combinations, therefore he wrote:
23) Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are build up to get power and gain – and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.
2 Nephi 26

Nephi, describing the wickedness of the Gentiles in the latter days, prophesied that many of them will have entered into secret combinations to acquire control over the people by deception and the threat of the actual commission of murder.
14) But behold, I prophesy unto you concerning the last days;....
22) And there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil, for he is the founder of all these things;...
 
Ether 8
After Moroni had issued this ominous warning he then gives the Gentiles of the latter days a commandment directly from God:
24) Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.
25) For it cometh to pass that whosoever buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people; for it is build up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who our first parents; yea, even that same lia who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men, that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.

Not only are the Gentiles being warned by the Lord, but Moroni had received a commandment to emphasize the severity of this warning. He says:
26) Wherefore, I Moroni, am commanded to write these things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come that Satan may have no power upon the hearts of the children of men, but that they may be persuaded to do good continuously, that they may come unto the fountain of all righteousness and be saved.

These following scriptures discuss ancient secret combinations, and how they, thru deception and murder, were able to take over the government of the Nephites.
Helaman 2:4, 12-13
Helaman 6: 15-30
Helaman 7: 4-5
Helaman 8: 1-4
3 Nephi 6: 25-30
3 Nephi 7: 1-10
4 Nephi 1: 42, 46.

I might have included some very enlightening words of dead prophets on this subject, but I decided not to.
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Re: Lundbaek

Postby dennis » Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:28 am

I am interested , Go ahead lets have it from the prophets.
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Re: Lundbaek

Postby lundbaek » Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:49 am

Ezra Taft Benson, former Secretary of Agriculture under President Eisenhower, and later an Apostle and finally President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, speaking in a Church General Conference in October 1988: “I testify that wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society. It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world."

As an Apostle, Joseph Fielding Smith wrote in “Doctrines of Salvation”, Vol.3, pp. 314-315: “Satan has control now. No matter where you look, he is in control, even in our own land. He is guiding the governments as far as the Lord will permit him. That is why there is so much strife, turmoil, confusion all over the earth. One master mind is governing the nations. It is not the President of the United States...it is not the king or government of England or any other land; it is Satan himself.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 3, pp. 314-315)

President J. Ruben Clark, speaking in the October 1949 General Conference, said: "Do not think that all these usurpations, intimidations, and impositions are being done to us through inadvertancy or mistake, the whole course is deliberately planned and carried out; its purpose is to destroy the Constitution and our Constitutional government."

Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, speaking in the April 1980 General Conference, stated: "Gadianton robbers fill the judgement seats in many nations. An evil power seeks to overthrow the freedom of all nations and countries."

Apostle Boyd K. Packer, speaking in a 16 January 2007 BYU Devotional, stated: “We live in a time of war, that spiritual war that will never end. Moroni warned us that the secret combinations begun by Gadianton ‘are had among all people. . . . Wherefore, O ye Gentiles [and the term gentile in that place in the Book of Mormon refers to us in our generation], it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you. . . . Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you. [Ether 8:20, 23–24]
This was also printed in the August 2010 Ensign magazine, Pg. 23

On 18 August 2009 Elder Packer, speaking at BYU Education Week, said: “Moroni spoke of the wickedness of the secret combinations and the wicked men to come among us. He warned us that they would be with us in our day and said: “When ye shall see these things come among you that ye [should] awake to a sense of your awful situation. . . .
Wherefore, I, Moroni, am commanded to write these things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come that Satan may have no power upon the hearts of the children of men, but that they may be persuaded to do good continually, that they may come unto the fountain of all righteousness and be saved.” [Ether 8:24, 26]
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Re: Lundbaek

Postby dennis » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:40 pm

two more: An official statement of the First Presidency of the Church, made on October 3, 1942:



“[Satan] plans to destroy liberty and freedom—economic, political, and religious, and to set up in place thereof the greatest, most widespread, and most complete tyranny that has ever oppressed men. He is working under such perfect disguise that many do not recognize either him or his methods. There is no crime he would not commit, no debauchery he would not set up, no plague he would not send, no heart he would not break, no life he would not take, no soul he would not destroy. He comes as a thief in the night; he is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Without their knowing it, the people are being urged down paths that lead only to destruction.” (Conference Report, Oct. 1942, pp13, 15, Messages of the First Presidency, comp. James R. Clark, vol. 6 (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1975), p. 179.)

"The Devil in the last stage of desperation, will take such a pre-eminent lead in literature, politics, philosophy, and religion; in wars, famines, pestilences, earthquakes, thunderings and lightnings, setting cities in conflagration, etc., that mighty kings and powerful nations will be constrained to fall down and worship him. And they will marvel at his great power, and wonder after him with great astonishment. For his signs and wonders will be among all nations." (Millennial Star, 30 April 1853, Volume 15, Pages 273-276, 289-292 - attributed to Pres. John Taylor, compiled and edited by Parley P. Pratt)
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Re: Lundbaek

Postby happy@life » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:25 pm

On looking back on older posts I discovered your beautiful instightson the Book of Mormon.

My first encounter with the Book of Mormon occurred over 51 years ago on a rainy day when I could find nothing more exciting to do than browse thru the stacks of a library. I checked the book out and began reading it. The words testimony and witness were not part of my regular vocabulary back then. I simply knew the book I was reading was a true account of God’s dealings with some people who had lived a long time ago, and that it contained messages that made good sense and appealed to me. Now I’m not an easy person to put something over on, as a few politicians have found out the hard way. But as I read the story of how Joseph Smith saw and was spoken to by both God the Father and His Beloved Son, Jesus the Christ, again, it made perfect sense to me. For a while, the tricky part was finding the Church that it belonged to.


Could you please share how you found the Church?
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Re: Lundbaek

Postby lundbaek » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:56 pm

I found and read the Book of Mormon while in the Navy. On leave and in Washington, D.C. over a weekend I searched the yellow pages in the church section for the name Mormon. With an address, I went there late in the day and was pleased to note an evening service. I parked myself on the very back row. I couldn't hear very well for the babys crying, and did not realize the tray being passed around was the sacrament. Being Cathollic, I was accustomed to the word communion. As the lad passing the tray came down my row I nearly tossed a quartrer into the tray, thinking it was the collection plate as I was accustomed to. (A quarter was a quarter of a dollar back then in 1959.) After the meeting I tried to get out the door without having to chat with the men who were degreeting (for lack of a better word) those leaving. I held back until I didn't see them and made a go for it, but there were a couple others standing outside the door. They debriefed me and invited me to a fireside, promising to drive me back to the BOQ where I was staying overnite. There wasn't even a fireplace in the apartment where the fireside was, but the discussion was enlightening and I came away with my own copy of the Book of Mormon, which I completed reading during my leave, during which time I also found the mission office in Cambridge, Massacusetts. I went to the mission office on a Saturday evening, and told a Sister Jensen (thinking she was a Mormon nun) I had just read the Book of Mormon and asked what else was there I could read about the church that it belonged to. She fetched 2 guys about my age (missionaries were a bit older back then; at least these 2 were) and we went into a room and argued a bit over where we would start. Since it was their church I decided to let them present their canned discussion, which I began to find interesting. Without getting too personal, I'll just say that I was ready for baptism a couple of weeks before the missionaries broached the subject. those same 2 missionaries baptized and confirmed me in February 1960.
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Re: Lundbaek

Postby happy@life » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:09 pm

:D Thanks so much for sharing! It's a sign you had the truth in that you made it through the crying babies and differences in church culture. Through your contributions on the forum I see you made a great choice! Your knowledge and testimony are awesome. I especially appreciate your comments on the Book of Mormon.
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Re: Lundbaek

Postby Squally » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:07 am

lundbaek wrote:I found and read the Book of Mormon while in the Navy. On leave and in Washington, D.C. over a weekend I searched the yellow pages in the church section for the name Mormon. With an address, I went there late in the day and was pleased to note an evening service. I parked myself on the very back row. I couldn't hear very well for the babys crying, and did not realize the tray being passed around was the sacrament. Being Cathollic, I was accustomed to the word communion. As the lad passing the tray came down my row I nearly tossed a quartrer into the tray, thinking it was the collection plate as I was accustomed to. (A quarter was a quarter of a dollar back then in 1959.) After the meeting I tried to get out the door without having to chat with the men who were degreeting (for lack of a better word) those leaving. I held back until I didn't see them and made a go for it, but there were a couple others standing outside the door. They debriefed me and invited me to a fireside, promising to drive me back to the BOQ where I was staying overnite. There wasn't even a fireplace in the apartment where the fireside was, but the discussion was enlightening and I came away with my own copy of the Book of Mormon, which I completed reading during my leave, during which time I also found the mission office in Cambridge, Massacusetts. I went to the mission office on a Saturday evening, and told a Sister Jensen (thinking she was a Mormon nun) I had just read the Book of Mormon and asked what else was there I could read about the church that it belonged to. She fetched 2 guys about my age (missionaries were a bit older back then; at least these 2 were) and we went into a room and argued a bit over where we would start. Since it was their church I decided to let them present their canned discussion, which I began to find interesting. Without getting too personal, I'll just say that I was ready for baptism a couple of weeks before the missionaries broached the subject. those same 2 missionaries baptized and confirmed me in February 1960.

That's wonderful, thanks for sharing this!
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Re: Lundbaek

Postby lundbaek » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:24 pm

We have been told that a war over freedom began in Heaven as Lucifer tried to take away our free agency and replace it with total control over our lives. And that we are among those who supported the Lord’s plan of freedom to exercise free agency, and consequently were able to come to earth and take on a mortal body, while those who fought for Lucifer’s plan are forever denied that opportunity. We cannot help but notice that Lucifer has not given up, that the war continues on earth today. But I wonder how cognizant we are of the fact that Lucifer managed to get ancient Israel to reject freedom under the Lord's judges. And that he successfully destroyed the freedom and finally the existence of the Jaredites by his secret combinations. And surely we have read where the Lord has shown us in the Book of Mormon that there were Gadianton robbers among the Nephites, shown us their goals to use dishonest means to acquire wealth and gain control of government, and shown us how they attained those goals.

But do we all see that the same thing has been happening in our day? Do we all realize that Nephi warned us that there would be secret combinations in our day; and that Moroni warned us that we would lose our freedoms if we allowed these secret combinations of our day to get above us? Do we know that we have also been warned through the Prophet Joseph Smith of secret combinations in our day? Do we remember in 1988 when the Prophet, President Benson, warned us that a secret combination seeking to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world? And did we read more recently where President Packer reminded us in the August 2010 Ensign magazine of the warnings Moroni gave us that the secret combinations begun by Gadianton are had among all people and that we should become aware of them and oppose them?

I often wonder how many of us are aware that the Lord has counseled us in the kind of government and laws that we should have in our day; that He gave us a Constitution for our government and He has commanded us to befriend and defend that Constitution of the United States. Perhaps when in 1987 President Benson explained to us how we can best befriend the Constitution of the United States, we were not paying close enough attention?

I'm sure many of us are waiting for "further instructions", having forgotten that the Lord has also told us that we should not wait to work righteousness until we are directed to do so; that He has commanded us to expose these secret combinations and to to suffer not that they get above us, and to bring to light the hidden things of darkness.

Could it be that far too many of us are totally oblivious to the fact that we have been told that we must be one in defending freedom and fighting these murderous combinations, and that severe consequences await those of us who neglect these responsibilities, even the loss of one's exaltation.
**************************************************************************************************

The Lord Jesus Christ established His Church on this land in these latter-days by the hands of wise men whom He raised up unto this very purpose.

The Lord also established earlier the United States of America, and the blueprint for its government, namely the Constitution of the United States.

Latter-day Saints are the only people under a divine mandate to defend, uphold and adhere to the Constitution,

The Constitution is intended to become the governing system for the whole world.

Americans in general have apostatized in various ways from their original Constitution.

We Latter-day Saints are the only people who have been given this information directly from the Lord. We have the greatest responsibility of any people to the Constitution that the Lord gave us, to its preservation, and as the case is now, to its restoration.
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Re: Lundbaek

Postby lundbaek » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:08 pm

There is a satanically driven conspiracy involving certain powerful and wealthy persons in high positions to push global governance upon the world by establishing a world dictatorship*. It appears that this dictatorship* is to evolve from regional dictatorships* currently being established, mostly without the knowledge of all but a very few people. One of the regional dictatorships* currently in the making is the North American Union, which is intended to include Canada, the United States and Mexico under a single dictatorship*. The European Union is another regional dictatorship*, already further along in its organization and establishment, acquiring increasing powers over European people, businesses, and national and local governments.

Here in the United States the no longer so secret combination is currently working to overthrow Americans' freedom by totally destroying its Constitution and changing its constitutional representative government into a dictatorship*. The strategy, guided by Satan as far as the Lord will permit him, is a multi-pronged attack on the American dollar, economy, culture, education system, moral fibre, military strength, and industrial strength to reduce Americans to a willingness to accept a socialist or fascist dictatorship*. They are fomenting shooting wars to weaken America's military and destroy its wealth. They are destroying her industries to destroy her wealth. They are diluting her dollars with unbacked dollars created out of nothing. They are destroying her moral fibre with drugs, immorality of all sorts, and socialism. They are fomenting illegal immigration to destroy her culture and siphon off her wealth. They are striving to increase the size of the alien voting bloc by securing voting rights for immigrants of socialist persuasion.

Most Americans are oblivious to this plot, and certainly not ready to give up the liberties protected by the U.S. Constitution that they will certainly lose when forced to give up more of their constitutional rights to a global dictatorship*. They are unaware of the concerted attacks against the freedoms of Americans in order to make such a shambles of our country that "we the people" will willingly submit to a world dictatorship*. They do not recognize the efforts to destroy this nation thru destruction of her wealth, culture, industrial capability, moral fibre, minimizing her military power and industrial strength, and changing her government from a constitutional republic to something akin to a socialist dicntatorship*. Is there a more accurate word better than TREASON to describe what is being done to our nation in the effort to establish a global dictatorship*? Yet many Americans are supporting programs, policies and people that contribute to the destruction of their country and its original constitutional republic form of government. And this constitutional repullic was established by the Lord by the hands of wise men whom He raised up unto that very purpose.

Many Americans, hopefully most, can see that illegal immigration, with its devastating effects especially on our national wealth, moral fibre, and culture is contributing to making a shambles of America and will surely contriute to the overthrow and destruction of our form of government. Many realize that certain elements of the U.S. FedGov are fomenting, encouraging and supporting in various ways this influx of illegal immigrants, most obviously by the FedGov's refusal to protect the U.S. borders from foreign invasion as it is required to do by the U.S. Constitution.

Unfortunately, there are Americans who believe that righteousness and charity include initiatives, programs and legislation that force others to involuntarily contribute to the welfare of others, including illegal immigrants. But fortunately more and more Latter-day Saints are longing for and are working hard to return the U.S. government back under the Constitution in the tradition of the Founders of this nation. And more and more of these people strongly disagree with the theft of their money and property under the guise of charity. They oppose the government taking what belongs to them and giving it to others to whom it does not belong. They disagree with those who believe that righteousness and charity include supporting initiatives, programs and legislation that force people to involuntarily contribute to the welfare of others. They realize that to contribute of one's own wealth to aid others is true charity and is righteous, but to force other people to contribute is not charity, but theft, or as Frederick Bastiat and Ezra Taft Benson called it, "legalized plunder".



* Joel Skousen, Editor of the weekly World Affairs Brief, has suggested to me this important consideration: "I would avoid the use of the word dictatorship because the powers that be can now and will continue to effectively control democratic governments and turn them into highly regulatory governments with emergency powers to dispose of people ---but which will NEVER appear to be fully dictatorial. There will also exist a constant parade of puppet leaders who will make it appear as if this is just elected government at work, dealing with one crisis after another. It will NEVER ever be an obvious dictatorship. They are too slick for that."
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Re: Lundbaek

Postby lundbaek » Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:09 am

When I joined the LDS Church in 1960 I began to be increasingly impressed with what prophets, apostles and scriptures had to say about a secret combination in our time that is seeking to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations and countries, and is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world, and also, what they had to say about the duty of Latter-day Saints especially to "honour the Constitution and to honour freedom". Thanks in large part to my parents and many of their associates, my earliest awakening to these things began in 1949, when I was 11 years old, and I noted how certain elements in our government and elsewhere in our country were fomenting and fostering events clearly dangerous ( and in my opinion treasonous) to the freedoms I thought we Americans were supposed to have. And my horror continued as subsequent events supported my convictions of treason within our nation against the original U.S. Constitution. As I have tried in various ways to alert other members of the Church to the increasingly "awful situation" that Nephi, Moroni, and certain latter-day prophets and apostles warned would afflict us in our day, and to our divinely mandated responsibility to become familiar with, uphold and abide by the princples of the original U.S. Constitution, I have reached many members with that message, including well over one thousand in one effort alone. And a good number of other members of the LDS Church have done as well or much better. Hats off to them.

In my efforts to bring these things to the attention of as many LDS people as possible, I have finally figured out that most of them are (or at least fancy themselves) too smart and too well informed to be troubled by these warnings - not my warnings, mind you, but the warnings of the Lord thru ancient and latter-day prophets.

We should know that the Lord Himself established the Constitution of the United States by the hands of wise men whom He raised up unto that very purpose, and that it is intended to be the governing system for the world during the Millennium. Almost every prophet in our dispensation has stated the importance of defending, upholding and abiding by the principles of the Constitution. And several prophets have warned that we have apostatized in various ways from the Constitution. I recall warnings by Ezra Taft Benson in particular that we should not wait for precise directions from the Prophet on how to become familiar with, uphold and abide by the princples of the original U.S. Constitution, although as President of the Church he gave us very clear guidance on that subject in the October 1987 Church General Conference. I cannot recall any detailed instructions from the Church leadership to the general Church membership regarding how to oppose the efforts of secret combinations from getting above us. But I do know that President McKay did appeal to certain individual members of the Church to get something going along this line. And I also know that Ezra Taft Benson as an Apostle personally supported this endeavour, and cautioned us against becoming slothful servants by neglecting these responsibilities.

During the 18 months my wife and I spent in Salt Lake City 2006-2008 I endeavoured to gain better understanding of why these subjects - our responsibility to maintain the principles of the original U.S. Constitution and to maintain our freedoms - were receiving so little attention from the Church now. I was able to satisfy myself that there are at least two reasons for the now relative silence from the Church on these subjects. The first reason was expressed by a son of a now deceased General Authority of the Church in about these words: If President McKay, President Clark, President Romney, President Benson and others couldn't get the Saints moving on these things, nobody could, so they gave up. The second reason, given me by an emeritus Seventy and a few others concerned with this matter, was that the forces that I call latter-day gadiantons, which are seeking the destruction of our Constitution and freedoms, have gotten above us to such an extent that if the Church were to try to promote constitutional principles and freedom now they would take retribution against the Church, with serious consequences to its operations. If you are aware or can think of a more likely reason(s) for the diminished emphasis on these subjects in recent years please feel free to advise me. I would love to have an excuse to retire from my efforts to promote attention to and action on these subjects.
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Re: Lundbaek

Postby Original_Intent » Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:41 am

Lundbaek,

In my opinion there is a third reason: where no law is given, there is no condemnation. In other words, I think that we as a church body are living so far below the requirement, that for it to be continued to be taught would only result in further condemnation.

I am not saying that I believe we are off the hook - we aren't. And as we well know, the principles are there for those that are ready to accept them. And for those that are not ready, they will justify themselves that if the current prophet has not expressly repeated something, it is no longer something that we are expected to follow. I agree with the two reasons that you gave; I think this is possibly a third reason.
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Re: Lundbaek

Postby lundbaek » Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:46 am

An excellent consideration and I believe you are correct. Thank you for the reply callng it to my attention.
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