POKER & THE ART OF WAR: To My Beloved, Fellow Patriots

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

A couple of months ago, I came across this lecture by Stan Montieth; a foremost researcher on the subject. This is an hour & 43 minutes long. It is not as light and easy as the Aaron Russo interview, to watch...but it goes much deeper into who these people really are. I found it extremely informative, in better understanding who the enemy is:

Stan Montieth Lecture: "Brotherhood of Darkness"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbfl3iyA6bA

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

A couple of years ago, while we were living in SLC, I went to the Church History Library and read in the April 1972 Conference Report that talk by Elder Benson. The statement about "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" was missing. It is also missing from the July 1972 Ensign report of that talk. I have wondered why that statement was pulled but the recommendations of the other 3 books remained.

I was aware of that, Lundbaek. I have wondered the same thing. Obviously there are some who would hope our conclusion is that the church did it as a way to refute the endorsement. I'm not saying that that is not a possibility, but there are certainly other explanations.

I have noticed, from time to time; for wise purposes related to the principle of diplomacy in this world -- the Church has exercised its authority to make some minor edits. There was an instance or two in the Book of Mormon...and one item in Bruce McConkie's "Mormon Doctrine". The slight alterations did not change the meaning or doctrine -- but made the passages more "diplomatic"...and I can see the wisdom in that.

[echecketcaptain of 10]

A couple of years ago, while we were living in SLC, I went to the Church History Library and read in the April 1972 Conference Report that talk by Elder Benson. The statement about "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" was missing. It is also missing from the July 1972 Ensign report of that talk. I have wondered why that statement was pulled but the recommendations of the other 3 books remained.

I was aware of that, Lundbaek. I have wondered the same thing. Obviously there are some who would hope our conclusion is that the church did it as a way to refute the endorsement. I'm not saying that that is not a possibility, but there are certainly other explanations.

I have noticed, from time to time; for wise purposes related to the principle of diplomacy in this world -- the Church has exercised its authority to make some minor edits. There was an instance or two in the Book of Mormon...and one item in Bruce McConkie's "Mormon Doctrine". The slight alterations did not change the meaning or doctrine -- but made the passages more "diplomatic"...and I can see the wisdom in that.

I agree with your point.

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

...and to continue with the thought...regarding the above referenced edit in the archives, concerning "None Dare Call It Conspiracy"...

In this time when the great secret combination has become increasingly bold, far-reaching and vicious...it is wisdom that the Church would be keeping a "low-profile", with respect to such matters.

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

Regarding "None Dare Call It Conspiracy".

...The book is good, but it obviously misses what that conspiracy has morphed into...

...true, the book has some short-comings...but what I like about that little book, is that it is indeed, a "little" book. You can get through it one sitting -- in a matter of a few hours...and for someone new to the topic...it is not only riveting...but very easy to understand.

...and for it's time (published in 1972)...it was definitely a courageous break-through.

...and so in my eyes, it is a classic, must read -- for anyone with a desire to begin to study the inner-workings of the great secret combination, in our day.

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

...what that conspiracy has morphed into...

My thoughts...the secret combination has morphed...but it is still basically the same...just more high-tech.

For instance, it used to be that in order to kill large numbers of citizens of a country, they typically needed to first take away all the citizen's guns. Now, they can kill you without first taking away all the guns. All they have to do is deceive large numbers of citizens into lining up for a vaccination...administer a soft-kill bioweapon to sterilize them, ruin their health, and shorten their life...or if they want to at some point...something faster acting can be administered.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

...what that conspiracy has morphed into...

My thoughts...the secret combination has morphed...but it is still basically the same...just more high-tech.

For instance, it used to be that in order to large numbers of citizens of a country, they typically needed to first take away all the citizen's guns. Now, they can kill you without first taking away all the guns. All they have to do is deceive large numbers of citizens into lining up for a vaccination...administer a soft-kill bioweapon to sterilize them, ruin their health, and shorten their life...or if they want to at some point...something faster acting can be administered.

Yes that one is certainly a game changer!

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

...what that conspiracy has morphed into...

My thoughts...the secret combination has morphed...but it is still basically the same...just more high-tech.

For instance, it used to be that in order to kill large numbers of citizens of a country, they typically needed to first take away all the citizen's guns. Now, they can kill you without first taking away all the guns. All they have to do is deceive large numbers of citizens into lining up for a vaccination...administer a soft-kill bioweapon to sterilize them, ruin their health, and shorten their life...or if they want to at some point...something faster acting can be administered.

Yes that one is certainly a game changer!

...which is what caused me to step out of the shadows, where I could avoid becoming a target...and caused me to decide to take action.

[AussieOicaptain of 1,000]

Millions of martyrs through history might argue that your great man failed his great man test

[AussieOicaptain of 1,000]

...and to continue with the thought...regarding the above referenced edit in the archives, concerning "None Dare Call It Conspiracy"...

In this time when the great secret combination has become increasingly bold, far-reaching and vicious...it is wisdom that the Church would be keeping a "low-profile", with respect to such matters.

Do a search on this site for ”don't tweak the tail of the beast”

Personally I have found it a very disappointing argument and an excuse for members refusing to do the job that is up to them to do

[echecketcaptain of 10]

...and to continue with the thought...regarding the above referenced edit in the archives, concerning "None Dare Call It Conspiracy"...

In this time when the great secret combination has become increasingly bold, far-reaching and vicious...it is wisdom that the Church would be keeping a "low-profile", with respect to such matters.

Do a search on this site for ”don't tweak the tail of the beast”

Personally I have found it a very disappointing argument and an excuse for members refusing to do the job that is up to them to do

Please enlighten me on what you believe is the job that is up to the members to do.

[ithinkcaptain of 1,000]

...and to continue with the thought...regarding the above referenced edit in the archives, concerning "None Dare Call It Conspiracy"...

In this time when the great secret combination has become increasingly bold, far-reaching and vicious...it is wisdom that the Church would be keeping a "low-profile", with respect to such matters.

Do a search on this site for ”don't tweak the tail of the beast”

Personally I have found it a very disappointing argument and an excuse for members refusing to do the job that is up to them to do

I enjoyed your message Conrad, but I agree with Aussie. I don't believe the doctrine of not tweaking the tail of the beast. I think that it matters not where or when a man dies, provided he dies at the post of honor and duty. I believe the the Lord's arm is not shortened that it cannot deliver. I believe that the doctrine of keeping your mouths shut is of the devil, and it angers the Lord. "For there are many that will not open their mouths... ye are the salt of the earth, but if the salt has lost it's savor..... ye are the light of the world, a city that is set on a hill cannot be hid.... " and so on. We even have statements from President Benson saying if the priesthood had done it's duty, it could rise up and save the constitution even now (then).

"And the righteous will I preserve -- even if it must be by fire".

For myself, I take no solace in keeping my mouth shut, but in opening it constantly in a barrage against all false doctrine and false beliefs, tryranny, and all manner of evil. But that is my way. For those who don't want to speak so loud, let them speak with a lifetime of their good works. Not everyone needs to go to battle, but it is not for those in the background to tell those in the front line to shut up any more than it is good for those in the background to go home.

As for "agreeing with thine adversary while thou art in the way with him", do not be confused. I routinely hold back saying things from time to time, but when I'm no longer "in the way", I can open up. I just do not agree with a world wide blanket of silence. Regionally, temporarily, specificially and very narrowly -- yes, but by and large it is open season on evil. Speak up folks, with your lives and your mouths, don't be afraid of the consequences, just do what is right for you wherever and whenever you are there.

Besides. Moroni still walks this earth from time to time. I am confident he wouldn't have it any other way, and I believe he knows a thing or two about liberty and how not to lose it, and remember -- we are the generation that will not drop the ball, but we setting it down gracefully is no better than dropping it.

[AussieOicaptain of 1,000]

...and to continue with the thought...regarding the above referenced edit in the archives, concerning "None Dare Call It Conspiracy"...

In this time when the great secret combination has become increasingly bold, far-reaching and vicious...it is wisdom that the Church would be keeping a "low-profile", with respect to such matters.

Do a search on this site for ”don't tweak the tail of the beast”

Personally I have found it a very disappointing argument and an excuse for members refusing to do the job that is up to them to do

Please enlighten me on what you believe is the job that is up to the members to do.

Its those things we whine at the brethren for not doing

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

Millions of martyrs through history might argue that your great man failed his great man test

Thank you for taking the time to share your sentiment on that point, AussieOi.

Here are my thoughts, about whether the great man passed or failed the test...

When times get hard -- so hard as to try one to the very core...

...to die...to go out in a blaze of glory...is the easy way out...and then suddenly you are in a better place...free from the cares of this world.

...no, when times get really hard...when you and everyone around you are really suffering...and there is an unending amount of back-breaking, soul-trying work to do, and you wish you were dead...

Is it then, not much harder to keep on living...to keep on working...to keep on enduring...day after day after day?

It does not matter what some may think about whether or not the great man passed the test. What really matters on the final day of judgement, is what the thousands of men, women and children that were saved because of his acts have to say, as they stand as that man's witness.

...and what really matters is what the man knows...and what Jesus knows...about whether the man acted steadfastly and true -- to what he knew in his heart and by the whisperings of the Spirit...to be his mission, and the most important thing that he could do with his life.

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

Thank you also ithink – for taking the time to express your thoughts on the matter.

As I contemplate what you have said, here are some thoughts that come to my mind:

Of the millions of current-day priesthood holders on the earth – 99%-plus are not operating in official capacities of the church, but are however totally capable of acting as concerned citizens – and doing their civic duty.

Do not our current-day prophets continue to encourage its members to be actively engaged in civic duties…to study the issues and engage in activity that will improve their communities and the world around them?

...and to study carefully, the Book Of Mormon?

If the millions of priesthood holders in the general membership of the Church…and even sisters were to follow both of those counsels, here is what would naturally follow:

When one takes the first step and studies…a mere reading of the Book of Mormon and the whisperings of the Spirit alerts them to the reality that we are indeed in an awful situation, in our day – with respect to the secret combination, clearly described to us in the Book of Mormon…and that me must not support it; but must work to root it out.

The brilliance of the way the Lord has things set up – is that He is able to get His specific instructions to each, individual church member, if they shall but follow the counsel of their prophet...without the prophet, in his official capacity as the President of the Church – having to make a public statement with specific instructions.

It is noteworthy, that once our beloved ETB took the mantle of Prophet, Seer and Revelator [President of the Church]…from that point on [1985], his statements about the secret combination were much more measured; much less frequent; and when they did occur – they were no more specific than the words which are in the Book of Mormon for all to see.

…and then, in the spirit of following that modern-day counsel from the Brethren – and in the spirit of a willingness to actually do what the Spirit prompts – those promptings shall come – and it would be well to follow them.

For many; as in my own case – those promptings will be to take action that will “tweek” and even twist the “tail of the beast”.

Such has occurred in my case, as I went from trying to protect myself and my family from becoming a target – to causing my name to appear on a document circulating to millions around the globe – which is extremely damaging to one of the most formidable weapons to the entire population of the world that the secret combination has – the Vaccine Industry. For more information about that, see the following topic and link:

Vaccine Infowar In Cardston Country

http://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9764

…and let the chips fall where they may…

Nothing would thrill me more, than to see millions of church members, acting in their unofficial capacities of merely concerned citizens, side-by-side with non-member patriots; bull-horning the Bilderberg Group meetings – with the words, “We know who you are; we know what you are doing in there; we will not be your slaves; we will defeat you; the answer to 1984, is 1776”…as a great non-member patriot has repeatedly done.

I’ll finish with this principle expressed in two quotes from the original post at the top:

Is it not wisdom, at this time – that by other men (which includes church members acting in unofficial capacities, together with non-members) and by other means, the secret combination shall continue to be exposed and meet its doom?

Each of us has different rolls, callings and missions in life; in accordance with the mind and will of the Lord. We must each seek that out, by the Spirit.

[ithinkcaptain of 1,000]

Thank you also ithink – for taking the time to express your thoughts on the matter.

As I contemplate what you have said, here are some thoughts that come to my mind:

Of the millions of current-day priesthood holders on the earth – 99%-plus are not operating in official capacities of the church, but are however totally capable of acting as concerned citizens – and doing their civic duty.

Do not our current-day prophets continue to encourage its members to be actively engaged in civic duties…to study the issues and engage in activity that will improve their communities and the world around them?

...and to study carefully, the Book Of Mormon?

No. Where I live, the bishop does not believe we are still under condemnation for taking the Book of Mormon lightly. Where I live, you will be removed from your calling if you teach a lesson on your civic duty to the young men, at least that is what happened to a good brother in our ward.

If the millions of priesthood holders in the general membership of the Church…and even sisters were to follow both of those counsels, here is what would naturally follow:

When one takes the first step and studies…a mere reading of the Book of Mormon and the whisperings of the Spirit alerts them to the reality that we are indeed in an awful situation, in our day – with respect to the secret combination, clearly described to us in the Book of Mormon…and that me must not support it; but must work to root it out.

Agreed. But this has not caught on where I am.

The brilliance of the way the Lord has things set up – is that He is able to get his specific instructions to the church members, if they shall but follow the counsel of their prophet – without the prophet, in his official capacity as the President of the Church – having to make a public statement with specific instructions.

It is noteworthy, that once our beloved ETB took the mantle of Prophet, Seer and Revelator…from that point on, his statements about the secret combination were much more measured; much less frequent; and when they did occur – they were no more specific than the words which are in the Book of Mormon for all to see.

Not always so. President Benson gave a talk in conference and asked us to consider Gary Allen's book None Dare Call it Conspiracy. If you watch the talk, you can see him say it, but if you look it up on the church archived website, it has been removed. So he did speak so clearly, but with time his words have been diluted and changed and currently do not accurately reflect what he actually said. I wish I could agree with you, but the facts do not universally support what you are saying. But in general, excepting this example I have given and other anomalies that I am aware of, I do agree.

…and then, in the spirit of following that modern-day counsel from the Brethren – and in the spirit of a willingness to actually do what the Spirit prompts – those promptings shall come – and it would be well to follow them.

For many; as in my own case – those prompting will be to take action that will “tweek” and even twist the “tail of the beast”.

Such has occurred in my case, as I went from trying to protect myself and my family from becoming a target – to causing my name to appear on a document circulating to millions around the globe – which is extremely damaging to one of the most formidable weapons to the entire population of the world that the secret combination has – the Vaccine Industry. For more information about that, see the following topic and link:

Vaccine Infowar In Cardston Country

http://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9764

…and let the chips fall where they may…

Nothing would thrill me more, than to see millions of church members, acting in their unofficial capacities of merely concerned citizens, side-by-side with non-member patriots; bull-horning the Bilderberg Group meetings – with the words, “We know who you are; we know what you are doing in there; we will not be your slaves; we will defeat you; the answer to 1984, is 1776”…as a great non-member patriot has repeatedly done.

I’ll finish with this principle expressed in two quotes from the original post at the top:

Is it not wisdom, at this time – that by other men (which includes church members acting in unofficial capacities, together with non-members) and by other means, the secret combination shall continue to be exposed and meet its doom?

Each of us has different rolls, callings and missions in life; in accordance with the mind and will of the Lord. We must each seek that out, by the Spirit.

My real name also is before the world, though not on this forum -- yet. It might be one day soon, but not until the things I have referred to previously are resolved, I must at this time remain anonymous.

I have seen your works and they are well done. Keep up the good work, I'm sure we'll be crossing paths personally sooner than later.

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

Thank you for your kind words, ithink...and for your desires to make this world a better place.

It seems we are practically on the same page then, except for one small variance that I would like to clarify:

When ETB gave that talk to which you refer it was 1972 -- thirteen years before he took on the mantle of Prophet, Seer and Revelator -- President -- and spokesman for the Lord to entire Church and world.

...and the edits to the 1972 talk and the reasons for them, have already been discussed, a little higher in the thread. I was specifically referring to the time period 1985, until his death -- as President of the Church.

...and there is one other point, to which we can probably both agree...as much as I love ETB...the most important Prophet of God to me at this very moment in time, save Jesus only...is the one that is alive and serving, right now.

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

ithink wrote in an above post: "No. Where I live, the bishop does not believe we are still under condemnation for taking the Book of Mormon lightly. Where I live, you will be removed from your calling if you teach a lesson on your civic duty to the young men, at least that is what happened to a good brother in our ward."

How did your Sunday School Gospel Doctrine teacher deal with SS Lesson #44, on "Being Good Citizens"?

[ithinkcaptain of 1,000]

Sun Tzu’s book, The Art of War, should be on everyones required reading list... for exactly the reasons posted. excellent observation and post.

War, maybe, but then, what of this? Therefore, renounce war and proclaim peace, and seek diligently to turn the hearts of the children to their fathers, and the hearts of the fathers to the children;

[ithinkcaptain of 1,000]

Thank you for your kind words, ithink...and for your desires to make this world a better place.

It seems we are practically on the same page then, except for one small variance that I would like to clarify:

When ETB gave that talk to which you refer it was 1972 -- thirteen years before he took on the mantle of Prophet, Seer and Revelator -- President -- and spokesman for the Lord to entire Church and world.

...and the edits to the 1972 talk and the reasons for them, have already been discussed, a little higher in the thread. I was specifically referring to the time period 1985, until his death -- as President of the Church.

...and there is one other point, to which we can probably both agree...as much as I love ETB...the most important Prophet of God to me at this very moment in time, save Jesus only...is the one that is alive and serving, right now.

We don't know the reasons why the talk was edited, and my issue is not that it was. My issue is that the talk is presented as his verbatim talk, when it is not. If a document is edited, it should be annotated that it is edited. In my opinion, unless edited by Elder Benson himself, the changes should be annotated, perhaps with a footnote with the missing piece with an explanation such as "This has been removed from the body of the text so to be sure not to put too much attention to the truth... ", well, a bit of humor can't hurt. But it begs the question: if that has been altered, what else has? Again, we don't know who modified that talk or why. All is speculation. As for me, I share the sentiments of Samuel Adams: " I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and prepare for it. ... (Samuel Adams)" I realize that it is the position of many to desire to protect the faith of the weak in various ways, but it is my belief in the next life when we look back we will see that that policy was one of accomodation of the faithlessness of the saints, not the actual will of God, but his will through his servants none the less when we deviate from his higher desires for us similar to the way divorce is tolerated, but is certainly not the will of the father to his children.

[AussieOicaptain of 1,000]

Millions of martyrs through history might argue that your great man failed his great man test

Thank you for taking the time to share your sentiment on that point, AussieOi.

Here are my thoughts, about whether the great man passed or failed the test...

When times get hard -- so hard as to try one to the very core...

...to die...to go out in a blaze of glory...is the easy way out...and then suddenly you are in a better place...free from the cares of this world.

...no, when times get really hard...when you and everyone around you are really suffering...and there is an unending amount of back-breaking, soul-trying work to do...it is much harder to keep on living...to keep on working...to keep on enduring...day after day after day.

It does not matter what some may think about whether or not the great man passed the test. What really matters on the final day of judgement, is what the thousands of men, women and children that were saved because of his acts have to say, as they stand as that man's witness.

...and what really matters is what the man knows...and what Jesus knows...about whether the man acted steadfastly and true -- to what he knew in his heart and by the whisperings of the Spirit...to be his mission, and the most important thing that he could do with his life.

sorry, cop out. if CHH were here he'd chew you up and spit you out

we arent secret jews living amongst nazis. we're just people.

we can't walk by the bashed man and say "no, i better not play the good samaritan else my mates the robbers will see me and i'll be on the outer"
there are too many LDS who ARE now the gadiantons, Hatch, Romney, Reid, Huntsman etc etc, who play both sides of the field

where do you stop it?

"well im outreaching to them" isn't that what jimmy swaggart said?

so this guy basically destroyed a family so he could hope to save more.

i mean you are almost pulling a "saviour" angle on him.

how many of us are oscar schindler? exactly

rather, we'll be judged for what we did at the times when it mattered, as will your character

did Alma think- no, i better sit this one out, change them from the inside

i tell you more people have lost their souls thinking they will change it from the inside, and they get in, and 10 years later they are the same as they once thought they could oppose

i'll grant a prophet can play that game- i'll constrain myself for these people to save these people- heck, didn't nephi and lehi do that in the Book of Mormon?.....
but for us, today, in our day to day lives, well, you just posthumously justified most of the soldiers in Stalins regime, and Pol Pots, and Mugabe's Zimbabwe, and Hitlers Germany. shall I go on?

and Mutt Romney and his "I don't know if god has appeared to anyone since the burning bush"
and Justice Bybees infamous torture memo for Bush.

Shall I go on?

sorry, apart from a very very few people who are able to receive the inspiration to know how to act at all times, to pump up an explanation for a person to destroy anothers life (and not explain it to them) to appease their friends, well, that flies in the face of most everything I thought we as LDS and Priesthood holders hope we are. you know, character and integrity and truth stuff

i can see how you might be mis-framing an argument to explain why the church might remain silent on things, but i dont think the church or the lord would suffer
people to be destroyed to curry favour with mammon.

maybe you can re-frame in normal language what you are getting at here.
i'm pretty slow. keep it to 5 lines if you can. preferably 2

can I comment on these pearls too

>>>>>>>>>It does not matter what some may think about whether or not the great man passed the test. What really matters on the final day of judgement, is what the thousands of men, women and children that were saved because of his acts have to say, as they stand as that man's witness.

i'm sure the million poof march will be telling us exactly the same when they demand top be married in our chapels.
your scales are lop sided. mercy also requires justice.


>>>>>>...and what really matters is what the man knows...and what Jesus knows...about whether the man acted steadfastly and true -- to what he knew in his heart and by the whisperings of the Spirit...to be his mission, and the most important thing that he could do with his life.


oh-oh, this isn't the "i felt inspired to join the military to outreach to the soldiers killing innocents in iraq and afghanistan, yes i knew it was a luciferian war but i wanted to make it a better war...." argument is it? ni wish my mission included the necessity to sit back and say nothing while evil happens so that i can curry favours with the actual evil doers.

its a very slippery slope this one

[AussieOicaptain of 1,000]

[quote="dconrad000"]Do not our current-day prophets continue to encourage its members to be actively engaged in civic duties…to study the issues and engage in activity that will improve their communities and the world around them?

yes they absolutely do.
however, i think a more relevant discussion in this context is the message sent to these self appointed emissaries when they see the presidents of the church awarding honorary doctorates for services to humanity to war criminals.



>>>>>When one takes the first step and studies…a mere reading of the Book of Mormon and the whisperings of the Spirit alerts them to the reality that we are indeed in an awful situation, in our day – with respect to the secret combination, clearly described to us in the Book of Mormon…and that me must not support it; but must work to root it out.

amen. that said, why are you giving us a story about being an insider to the gadiantons?




>>>>>>The brilliance of the way the Lord has things set up – is that He is able to get His specific instructions to each, individual church member, if they shall but follow the counsel of their prophet...without the prophet, in his official capacity as the President of the Church – having to make a public statement with specific instructions.

almost. The brilliance of the way the Lord has things set up – is that He is able to get His specific instructions to each, individual church member IF THEY LISTEN TO THE HOLY GHOST.
i don't follow your paragraph after the .... part




>>>>It is noteworthy, that once our beloved ETB took the mantle of Prophet, Seer and Revelator…from that point on, his statements about the secret combination were much more measured; much less frequent;

i thought he increased it actually. and he wasn't just referring to communists as his predecessors largely were too



>>>>>>…and then, in the spirit of following that modern-day counsel from the Brethren – and in the spirit of a willingness to actually do what the Spirit prompts – those promptings shall come – and it would be well to follow them.

we also have Ether. we have common sense. we have our humanity. even in the absence of instruction from the brethren of the day- we have our duty- and that is, to stand up for that man in your story. not send him downstream to curry favours with mammon. my experience of the LDG is that you know what it is, its millions of little good men all selling one family upstream for their glorious big picture



>>>>>Nothing would thrill me more, than to see millions of church members, acting in their unofficial capacities of merely concerned citizens, side-by-side with non-member patriots; bull-horning the Bilderberg Group meetings – with the words, “We know who you are; we know what you are doing in there; we will not be your slaves; we will defeat you; the answer to 1984, is 1776”…as a great non-member patriot has repeatedly done.

me neither. but why would they do this if they followed the example of the great man and said "ill change it from the inside"
it aint gonna happen. most USA members are completely asleep. as here in Oz.
maybe if it was SPELT out for them in general conference, maybe. oh hang on, it was. for 30 years.
refer threads by CHH on Social Security (numbers)
refer also those kids who were given their 1 hour on BYU campus to protest cheney?
or refer Dr Jones at BYU, ahem, once at BYU.



i love poker. i understand Sun Tzu and Machiavelli. yeah, granted, strategy, absolutely. but for the rank and file person, our duty is to help the man bashed on teh road to jericho, not walk by and say "i'm called to something else...."

i used to get cranky with the church for not standing against these criminals. im over that. i've long worked out that in regards to that kind of stuff. its up to each of us to work out who we are and what we want to be and what kind of world we want to make

if we think we can play the game and be an insider and sup with satans little minions to enable greater things, well fine, half your luck. that person just needs to remember, that 90% of the "enemy" is probably thinking the same thing. sadly, the 10% is probably a whole lot more smarter than they are, so they want to be careful, or they'e be no different to all the other sell outs

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

Ausieoi wrote:

...why are you giving us a story about being an insider to the gadiantons?

It appears that a major fundamental difference in our views, is whether or not the great man participated in and became a part of the secret combination.

My view is that he did just the opposite. He diametrically thwarted what they were all about. He acted as a good Samaritan and saved the lives of people that none else had the courage to help. He counteracted what they (the secret combination) were doing. He defeated their purposes with his operation. He did not participate in their spoils. He did not engage with them in their secret oaths. He merely treated them, his enemy -- as Jesus counseled us to do. He engaged in some kind gestures and acts towards them. All the while he was careful not to tip his poker hand to them. He won the pot with nothing in his hand. He courageously won his personal battle with them, while he had been defenseless (much like the stripling warriors). He risked everything, including his very life to continue his operation to help those he was able to help. He put his faithful servant through a trial, for a time...and then rewarded him an hundred-fold.

...and then another major fundamental difference we seem to have is with this:

...the most important Prophet of God to me at this very moment in time, save Jesus only...is the one that is alive and serving, right now.

[AussieOicaptain of 1,000]

It appears that a major fundamental difference in our views, is whether or not the great man participated in and became a part of the secret combination.

My view is that he .

[/quote]


i just want to get this right

its hurting my head

this oskar schindler guy we're talking about, the guy who i think is part of the problem we're up against.

is the analogy meant to be that he is God, a Prophet (as in president of the church prophet), or an everyday man?

you're almost deifying him

or telling us that our leaders let people be sunk for the "greater good" one of the most evil principles of them all in many respects

maybe lock the thread, keep me out

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

AussieOi, completely apart and seperate from discussion of the great man, I would caution you that many of your comments are completely oozing with open contempt and disdain for the current leadership of the Church and the Brethren.

[AussieOicaptain of 1,000]

AussieOi, completely apart and seperate from discussion of the great man, I would caution you that many of your comments are completely oozing with open contempt and disdain for the current leadership of the Church and the Brethren.

thanks conrad. i'll be sure to keep an eye on that.
perhaps you can do me the service of telling me what i said that does that?
actually don't. save yourself the trouble. im sure i've heard it before.

in the same tone, can i caution you that many of your comments are completely oozing with open contempt and disdain for the teachings of the current leadership of the Church and the Brethren, and that is, that we cannot serve god and mammon.

what would i say to this great man? nothing. i doubt he'd listen. he's clearly getting his kick and justifying himself.

im sure bush and howard and blair and berlusconi all said the same "shucks, yeah, millions will die, but it will save our way of life, it will save millions (of white people). it will ensure there isn't a mosque on every corner in 50 years, it will stop terrorists in 50 years"

yep. greater good. just war. yawn. heard it before. one sick doctrine if ever there was one.

refer Ether 8. 22 And whatsoever anation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will not suffer that the bblood of his saints, which shall be shed by them, shall always cry unto him from the ground for cvengeance upon them and yet he avenge them not.

like i said. i think your guy has good intentions but is massively flawed.

one day he'll probably wake up and recognise he IS the combination

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

ithink, here is an observation I'll share with you that might help regarding some troubled thoughts over annotations -- or the lack thereof:

The Lord, or his authorized servant at the time (authorized to edit sacred records or books) has been no respecter of persons when it comes to lack of annotations accompanying edits.

Mormon had authority to edit recordings from many Book of Mormon Land prophets who had preceded him. He used his discretion of what we would see for now in our day. And of course, somewhere there is a complete record of it all -- wagonloads of records -- that the righteous will no doubt have access to...just like the original version of that Ensign article to which you referred.

Of most of the things that were edited, or left out from the Ancient American Prophet's records -- there is no annotation; except rarely i.e. I was about to write what John saw; but I was forbidden (paraphrasing from memory). But for the most part, the vast majority of the editor's decisions were not annotated or explained...and that is perfectly fine with me.

That likewise applies to the minor edits that occurred in the Book of Mormon, in my lifetime; and the edit that occurred in Bruce R McConkie's book, Mormon Doctrine. There are not annotations or explanations of the edits...and I see the wisdom in that. If you are making a diplomatic edit, it kind of defeats the purpose to then have to explain yourself and re-hash things thought better left unsaid, for now.

...anyway...perhaps that perspective may be of help.

DC

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

Sun Tzu’s book, The Art of War, should be on everyones required reading list... for exactly the reasons posted. excellent observation and post.

War, maybe, but then, what of this? Therefore, renounce war and proclaim peace, and seek diligently to turn the hearts of the children to their fathers, and the hearts of the fathers to the children;

I liken knowledge of those principles (in that book) to this:

When I was a kid growing up on the ranch in Alberta...Dad taught me how to use a gun -- and to use it safely and responsibly...and I will always remember these words, Dad told me, "Son, it's better to have a gun and not need one...than to need a gun and not have one."

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

Another example of editing was the removal of Ezra Taft Benson's recommendation of the book "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" from the April 1972 Conference Report.

[dconrad000captain of 1,000]

Thanks, Lundbaek...yes that is precisely what we have been discussing...and I am totally fine with that, even though I love ETB...and I love that book...

...and when I was ready for it...hungering for the information, it found a way of making it into my hands (in 1985, in fact...ironically...the very year that ETB became President)...and the reading of it, changed my whole perspective on life...

...because my eyes began to open to the fact that the secret combination which I read about in the Book of Mormon -- that would be a great plague to us in our day...was far bigger, and more powerful, and more diabolical -- than I had realized...

...not just the mafia, or the communists; as I had earlier been told when I asked my dad...but didn't really fully believe...hence I asked that family friend that question, as mentioned further up in the thread...who then told me about that "little book".