Should I confess to the bishop?

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Arenera
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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by Arenera »

"Some mistakes, especially those regarding immorality, require confession to the bishop before you can receive the Lord’s forgiveness."

Why and What do I need to Confess to My Bishop
You may wonder why you are taught to confess to your bishop or branch president when you have committed serious sins. You may say to yourself, “Isn’t repentance a personal thing between me and the Lord? If I have stopped my wrong behavior and have confessed it to God, why do I need to talk with my bishop?”

Why the Bishop and Not Someone Else?

Many youth feel more comfortable confessing their mistakes to their parents or youth leaders. Although your parents and leaders can provide necessary support and counsel, the Lord has declared that the bishop is a common judge in Israel (see D&C 107:72, 74). He has the responsibility to determine the worthiness of the members of his ward. By ordination and righteous living, the bishop is entitled to revelation from the Holy Ghost regarding the members of his ward, including you.

The bishop can help you through the repentance process in ways your parents or other leaders are unable to provide. If the sin is serious enough, he may determine that your privileges in the Church should be restricted. For example, as part of your repentance process, he may ask you to refrain from partaking of the sacrament or exercising the priesthood for a period of time. He will work with you and determine when you are worthy again to resume those sacred activities.

Your bishop will counsel you on what to do to strengthen your ability to resist temptation. He may encourage you to study a doctrinal topic, such as repentance, and then to share with him what you have learned. He may ask you to visit with him each week to report how you are doing in removing yourself from tempting situations.

When Should I Talk to Him?

You may be thinking, “That all sounds good, but how can I know if what I have done is serious enough that I need to talk to the bishop?” The short answer: “Your conscience will tell you.” When you feel the sting of conscience, act immediately (see Alma 34:31–34).

Regarding repentance, King Benjamin taught, “I cannot tell you all the things whereby ye may commit sin; for there are divers ways and means, even so many that I cannot number them” (Mosiah 4:29). So rather than giving a detailed list of things that you must confess to your bishop, let me share some principles that will help you make that decision.

What Do I Need to Confess?

I know that you have tried to be obedient, but maybe you have made some mistakes—even some serious mistakes. Most of the mistakes people make can be resolved through personal prayer and sincere repentance. Some mistakes, especially those regarding immorality, require confession to the bishop before you can receive the Lord’s forgiveness.

As you think about mistakes you have made, you may be feeling guilty, unsettled, unhappy, or even miserable. If you are experiencing any of those feelings, then you probably need to talk with your bishop about those mistakes.

Don’t try to excuse yourself or rationalize your way out. You may be thinking, “It would be too embarrassing to tell the bishop what I have done. He thinks I am a better person than that. He will be shocked if I tell him what I did. He won’t like me anymore.”

I promise you he will not condemn you. As a servant of the Lord, he will be kind and understanding as he listens to you. He will then help you through the repentance process. He is the Lord’s messenger of mercy to help you become clean through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

The Lord has said: “Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more.

“By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them” (D&C 58:42–43).

When you confess and forsake your sins, the Lord will forgive you. You will not have to account to Him for those sins when the time comes for you to be judged.

What If I Don’t Confess?

Sometimes a person will stop doing wrong but never confess, when it is needed, to his or her bishop. As a consequence, the person continues to carry the burden of sin alone, instead of letting the Savior take away the burden.

Let me give you an example. One evening a few years ago, I was interviewing adults for renewal of their temple recommends. A middle-aged woman came in for her interview. She had been married in the temple and was active in the Church all her life.

I sensed a deep sadness in her soul. As the interview progressed, I received a spiritual impression. I said to her, “Sister, I have the impression that you made a serious mistake when you were a teenager that you haven’t confessed to a priesthood leader. Would you be willing to tell me about it?”

She immediately began to cry. She told me that was true, but she had always felt too embarrassed to confess it to a bishop. As she confessed what she had done, she shared sufficient detail for me to make a determination of her worthiness.

The confession of her sin to a priesthood leader marked the end of her repentance process rather than the beginning. She had unnecessarily carried the burden and sorrow of that sin for more than 30 years.

Because she had completed the final step of repentance, her guilt was swept away. I would occasionally see her after the night of that interview. Her countenance became bright, and she was happy.

I want you to know that I do not remember her name. The Lord can remove such memories from bishops. What I do remember is that through confession to her priesthood leader, a middle-aged woman was relieved of feelings of guilt that she had carried far too many years.

Please don’t make that mistake. If you have feelings of guilt but are not sure if you need to confess to your bishop, go see him. Let him help you. Don’t risk carrying an unnecessary burden through your life, which will leave you feeling miserable. Through your confession to the bishop and your repentance, the Lord will lift that burden from your soul (see Isaiah 1:18).

Why Do I Need to Repent?

Jesus Christ paid the price of the sins of all mankind through His atoning sacrifice. He invites you to repent and avoid additional sorrow and suffering. “Repent, lest … your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.

“For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;

“But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I. …

“Wherefore, I command you again to repent, … and that you confess your sins, lest you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken” (D&C 19:15–17, 20).

I testify that through His suffering, Jesus Christ already paid the price for your sins. You can be forgiven insofar as you repent. Don’t try to pay the price for your sins. No amount of your own suffering will redeem you; it is only through the Atonement that you receive forgiveness.

May you exercise faith in Jesus Christ and His Atonement. I testify in the name of Jesus Christ that through repentance, including confession to your bishop when necessary, you will become clean. In addition, through the Savior’s grace—His enabling power—you can be strengthened in your ability to resist temptation in the future. Thus, you will have peace of mind and happiness in this life, and you will inherit eternal life in the world to come.

Our Great Physician

Elder David A. Bednar
“The Savior is often referred to as the Great Physician. … Guilt is to our spirit what pain is to our body—a warning of danger and a protection from additional damage. From the Atonement of the Savior flows the soothing salve that can heal our spiritual wounds and remove guilt. However, this salve can only be applied through the principles of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, repentance, and consistent obedience. The results of sincere repentance are peace of conscience, comfort, and spiritual healing and renewal.

“Your bishop or branch president is the spiritual physician’s assistant who is authorized to help you repent and heal.”

Elder David A. Bednar of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, “We Believe in Being Chaste,” Ensign May 2013, 44.

Finrock
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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by Finrock »

Arenera wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:11 am
bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:04 am The way I see it is that confessing to a Bishop is sort of a lesser law. We are in the lone and dreary world and we are all on different levels of understanding. I have personally seen the peace that can come from confessing to a Bishop. I have also see the disaster that comes from confessing to an untrustworthy Bishop. The system is not perfect and is not applicable to everyone. It's set in place to help guide the masses in the telestial vehicle that is the Church. There are individuals that can find complete repentance without going to a Bishop. The reason we are counseled to go to the Bishop is because most people need the extra help. The act of confessing to a Bishop is an easy way to bring humility, which is essential when repenting. This is because you are talking with another imperfect person who (if they are sincere and trustworthy) can bring you peace through the process of a broken heart and contrite spirit. This is one of the best systems for the masses and I say that nearly everyone should observe at some point in their life. However, it (confessing to a Bishop) is not required to fully repent. Confessing to God most certainly is required. Again, just remember you cannot fool God. You cannot feign repentance and expect God to let you in.
Read Mosiah 26, it certainly is required to go to your bishop.
I quoted a more complete part of Mosiah 26 which provides more context and information and it does not say anything about how it is required to go to your bishop. There is no mention of bishop, no command, nothing like what you are saying. It does say that Jesus is the redeemer. It does say that Jesus forgives. It says that if a person confesses and they repent, they should be forgiven, no questions asks. Jesus said He is quick to forgive and we too should be quick to forgive. It provides counsel to Alma for the situation he is dealing with. Mosiah 26 doesn't support your idea that it certainly is required to go to your bishop.

-Finrock

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bbsion
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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by bbsion »

Arenera wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:11 am
bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:04 am The way I see it is that confessing to a Bishop is sort of a lesser law. We are in the lone and dreary world and we are all on different levels of understanding. I have personally seen the peace that can come from confessing to a Bishop. I have also see the disaster that comes from confessing to an untrustworthy Bishop. The system is not perfect and is not applicable to everyone. It's set in place to help guide the masses in the telestial vehicle that is the Church. There are individuals that can find complete repentance without going to a Bishop. The reason we are counseled to go to the Bishop is because most people need the extra help. The act of confessing to a Bishop is an easy way to bring humility, which is essential when repenting. This is because you are talking with another imperfect person who (if they are sincere and trustworthy) can bring you peace through the process of a broken heart and contrite spirit. This is one of the best systems for the masses and I say that nearly everyone should observe at some point in their life. However, it (confessing to a Bishop) is not required to fully repent. Confessing to God most certainly is required. Again, just remember you cannot fool God. You cannot feign repentance and expect God to let you in.
Read Mosiah 26, it certainly is required to go to your bishop.
I have read it multiple times but I read it again, just now, for you.

Verse 1-4 is talking about wicked people who did not believe in God at all. They flattered people away from the Gospel in verse 6 and those people in the church committed many sins. At this time of mass sinning going on in the church it became expedient for those in the church to be admonished by the church. Expedient means “(of an action) convenient and practical, although possibly improper or immoral.”. Admonished means “advise or urge (someone) earnestly.”

Then King Mosiah gives Alma authority of the church. Basically, tells him it is your responsibility to help the masses get back in line due to the increased amount of sinning and hard hearts.

At this point Alma tells King Mosiah… this is overwhelming and there are too many people. A lot of them are not repentant at all so you judge them. Mosiah turns them back to Alma who starts to stress and then inquires of the Lord.

The Lord then says you are blessed Alma because of your faith and for organizing the masses into a church. They shall be my people (if they bear His name). It then seems that Alma has his calling and election made sure… making him the most trustworthy person for the unrepentant masses to go to in order to be set straight. Note: He's not a bishop.

Then the Lord says those who are baptized and call on Him are His and have their calling and election made sure. If the masses at this time did not repent and call upon God then they would be damned.

Verse 29 is likely what you are referring to since the Lord says “whosoever transgresseth against me, him shall ye judge according to the sins which he has committed; and if he confess his sins before thee and me, and repenteth in the sincerity of his heart, him shall ye forgive, and I will forgive him also.” This is highly pertaining to the situation at hand. There is mass sinning going around and many people have no intentions of repenting. The Lord, seeing that the masses are unrepentant, sets in place a system for these individuals that are having a hard time repenting to help them come unto Him. It’s required of these people to confess to Alma (who has had his calling and election made sure and is not Bishop) to be numbered among his people.

Later he says if the people say that they repented but they are still having problems with forgiving each other then they have obviously not repented.

“33 And it came to pass when Alma had heard these words he wrote them down that he might have them, and that he might judge the people of that church according to the commandments of God.
34 And it came to pass that Alma went and judged those that had been taken in iniquity, according to the word of the Lord.”

At this point Alma helped to regulate the church and put it back in order. Everyone is then admonished to pray unceasingly so they do not fall back into sin.

I have already said that confessing to a Bishop can be beneficial. I believe it's the best system in place for the church as a whole. It is not required for an individual that is repentant and has forsaken his sin to go to a Bishop. God knows his heart.

Edit: I also wanted to point out... who it's being said to is just as important as what is being said.

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Arenera
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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by Arenera »

Finrock wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:40 am
Arenera wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:11 am
bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:04 am The way I see it is that confessing to a Bishop is sort of a lesser law. We are in the lone and dreary world and we are all on different levels of understanding. I have personally seen the peace that can come from confessing to a Bishop. I have also see the disaster that comes from confessing to an untrustworthy Bishop. The system is not perfect and is not applicable to everyone. It's set in place to help guide the masses in the telestial vehicle that is the Church. There are individuals that can find complete repentance without going to a Bishop. The reason we are counseled to go to the Bishop is because most people need the extra help. The act of confessing to a Bishop is an easy way to bring humility, which is essential when repenting. This is because you are talking with another imperfect person who (if they are sincere and trustworthy) can bring you peace through the process of a broken heart and contrite spirit. This is one of the best systems for the masses and I say that nearly everyone should observe at some point in their life. However, it (confessing to a Bishop) is not required to fully repent. Confessing to God most certainly is required. Again, just remember you cannot fool God. You cannot feign repentance and expect God to let you in.
Read Mosiah 26, it certainly is required to go to your bishop.
I quoted a more complete part of Mosiah 26 which provides more context and information and it does not say anything about how it is required to go to your bishop. There is no mention of bishop, no command, nothing like what you are saying. It does say that Jesus is the redeemer. It does say that Jesus forgives. It says that if a person confesses and they repent, they should be forgiven, no questions asks. Jesus said He is quick to forgive and we too should be quick to forgive. It provides counsel to Alma for the situation he is dealing with. Mosiah 26 doesn't support your idea that it certainly is required to go to your bishop.

-Finrock
That is your interpretation. It is common knowledge in the church that you confess to your bishop on serious sins.

To show that, this is from a Seventy. viewtopic.php?p=801725#p801722

Silver
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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by Silver »

I haven't read this thread, but the subject reminds me of the one entitled "Will My Bishop Tell My Parents" or something similar. That was trollish.

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Arenera
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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by Arenera »

bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:48 am
Arenera wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:11 am
bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:04 am The way I see it is that confessing to a Bishop is sort of a lesser law. We are in the lone and dreary world and we are all on different levels of understanding. I have personally seen the peace that can come from confessing to a Bishop. I have also see the disaster that comes from confessing to an untrustworthy Bishop. The system is not perfect and is not applicable to everyone. It's set in place to help guide the masses in the telestial vehicle that is the Church. There are individuals that can find complete repentance without going to a Bishop. The reason we are counseled to go to the Bishop is because most people need the extra help. The act of confessing to a Bishop is an easy way to bring humility, which is essential when repenting. This is because you are talking with another imperfect person who (if they are sincere and trustworthy) can bring you peace through the process of a broken heart and contrite spirit. This is one of the best systems for the masses and I say that nearly everyone should observe at some point in their life. However, it (confessing to a Bishop) is not required to fully repent. Confessing to God most certainly is required. Again, just remember you cannot fool God. You cannot feign repentance and expect God to let you in.
Read Mosiah 26, it certainly is required to go to your bishop.
I have read it multiple times but I read it again, just now, for you.

Verse 1-4 is talking about wicked people who did not believe in God at all. They flattered people away from the Gospel in verse 6 and those people in the church committed many sins. At this time of mass sinning going on in the church it became expedient for those in the church to be admonished by the church. Expedient means “(of an action) convenient and practical, although possibly improper or immoral.”. Admonished means “advise or urge (someone) earnestly.”

Then King Mosiah gives Alma authority of the church. Basically, tells him it is your responsibility to help the masses get back in line due to the increased amount of sinning and hard hearts.

At this point Alma tells King Mosiah… this is overwhelming and there are too many people. A lot of them are not repentant at all so you judge them. Mosiah turns them back to Alma who starts to stress and then inquires of the Lord.

The Lord then says you are blessed Alma because of your faith and for organizing the masses into a church. They shall be my people (if they bear His name). It then seems that Alma has his calling and election made sure… making him the most trustworthy person for the unrepentant masses to go to in order to be set straight. Note: He's not a bishop.

Then the Lord says those who are baptized and call on Him are His and have their calling and election made sure. If the masses at this time did not repent and call upon God then they would be damned.

Verse 29 is likely what you are referring to since the Lord says “whosoever transgresseth against me, him shall ye judge according to the sins which he has committed; and if he confess his sins before thee and me, and repenteth in the sincerity of his heart, him shall ye forgive, and I will forgive him also.” This is highly pertaining to the situation at hand. There is mass sinning going around and many people have no intentions of repenting. The Lord, seeing that the masses are unrepentant, sets in place a system for these individuals that are having a hard time repenting to help them come unto Him. It’s required of these people to confess to Alma (who has had his calling and election made sure and is not Bishop) to be numbered among his people.

Later he says if the people say that they repented but they are still having problems with forgiving each other then they have obviously not repented.

“33 And it came to pass when Alma had heard these words he wrote them down that he might have them, and that he might judge the people of that church according to the commandments of God.
34 And it came to pass that Alma went and judged those that had been taken in iniquity, according to the word of the Lord.”

At this point Alma helped to regulate the church and put it back in order. Everyone is then admonished to pray unceasingly so they do not fall back into sin.

I have already said that confessing to a Bishop can be beneficial. I believe it's the best system in place for the church as a whole. It is not required for an individual that is repentant and has forsaken his sin to go to a Bishop. God knows his heart.

Edit: I also wanted to point out... who it's being said to is just as important as what is being said.
Sometimes people say scriptures only applied to that time. Sometimes people say scriptures also apply to us. Mosiah 26 applies to us. It is common knowledge that people confess to their bishop when they commit serious sin. That is clearly in Mosiah 26. Also see viewtopic.php?p=801725#p801722

Then there are the Isaiah scriptures. They apply in multiple instances. That is very amazing.

Finrock
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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by Finrock »

Question

If we can make confession to God without the priest, then why do we have confession with a priest present?


Answer

In the early Church, confession was public; that is, one confessed one’s sins in the presence of the entire faith community. When this became impractical, it was the priest who “stood in” for the community, as its presiding officer and as its witness to the penitent’s repentance.

Further, while we can indeed confess directly to God—even a casual reading of the daily prayers reveals that we should do this—we often find that we need help and advice in overcoming the very things we have confessed.

We do not confess “to” the priest; rather, we confess to God “in the presence of” the priest who, as the prayer before Confession clearly states, is God’s “witness” and who, having witnessed our confession of sins offers pastoral advice on how we can better our lives and overcome the very things we can confess. Just as one would not attempt to diagnose, much less cure, one’s own physical ailments, so too one should not attempt to diagnose, much less cure, one’s own spiritual ailments.

It is often the case that those who object to revealing their sins in the presence of a priest or to seek his advice have no qualms about revealing their sins to their neighbors, friends, psychiatrists, and so on, usually with the intention of obtaining advice—advice that is not necessarily godly or spiritually profitable, or even just plain “good,” for that matter.

Many years ago, a woman cornered my wife at coffee hour and told her that she was having an affair. She asked my wife’s advice.

My wife advised her that perhaps she should speak to me about this. The women replied, “But he’s a priest—I couldn’t tell him that!” This is somewhat akin to the person who finds a huge lump on his or her body, goes to the doctor, and then asks the receptionist to diagnose it. No doubt the receptionist would suggest that he or she have a seat and allow the doctor to look at it, only to find that the person with the huge lump replies, “But the lump’s much, much to big for me to show to the doctor!”

So, we confess in the presence of the priest to acknowledge that our sins, whether we wish to accept it or not, affect the entire faith community on the one hand, and that we cannot “heal ourselves” on the other. The priest is there to help us overcome those things for which we seek forgiveness, to give advice that a friend or neighbor might not be in a position to give, and to bear witness on behalf of the faith community, of which he is the spiritual father, that we have indeed repented and been forgiven by God.
It is from an Eastern Orthodox website but I thought this gave a good perspective as to why confession is good and why we should do it.

-Finrock

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AI2.0
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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by AI2.0 »

This really is a cut and dried situation, why wouldn't we want to confess our serious sins(such as Fornication which this thread was about) when we know it is part of repentance and an integral part of receiving the full blessings of the Atonement of our Savior on our behalf. But, we all have agency and some will choose not to confess, some will wait years and years to confess, so they are less likely to have to face Church discipline. Some will never confess because that is a part of the repentance process they are not able to complete-IMO, they aren't truly repentant, but want to hold back-not fully contrite and broken, as is necessary for full and honest repentance.

It's not 'judgy' to quote our Lord's own words. He tells us it is a serious mistake to partake of his ordinances unworthily--'damnation to our soul'. Elder Bednar shares a story about a woman who carried her unresolved sins for over 30 years, taking the sacrament each week, being married in the temple, attending the temple, all the while lying when asked question 14 in recommend interviews, lying each time she took the sacrament. I'm certain she lived with an element of 'damnation' of herself all those years. Think of what this did to her feelings about herself, her relationship with God, with Jesus Christ and also those she lied to. She paid a price, there is no doubt about that.

Some of you clearly don't want to confess to a Bishop, that's your choice. But to try to influence others to believe in false teachings, that is bad. It's not loving or kind to others to mislead them. I'm certain that some of you have the excuse that you aren't actually practicing LDS anymore so your views of what is LDS doctrine and practices is not accurate, but to me, it's clear. Arenera pointed out the church's stand on these things and especially for those who wish to enter the temple. There is no question that confession is expected and required for certain sins. It's what we teach investigators who desire baptism, it's what we teach in GC and in our scriptures--at least for those who don't have an agenda to disbelieve and not see truth.

From the Temple recommend interview;
14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?
Reality check: This question is an opportunity for people to come clean after years of lying and denial. Those who ignore it, continue to heap 'damnation upon their souls', but that's their choice, they are the ones who suffer. And, it's a blessing and an opportunity to truly forsake past sins and be washed clean through the blood of our Savior, through his Atonement on our behalf. It means salvation and moving toward eternal life with a clean slate. The other way, means that one day our unrepented sins, sins we continued to carry because we never fully forsaken them (The Lord said, if you've truly forsaken the sin, you will confess it and serious sins require confession to priesthood leaders who have stewardship over you) will be known to all and they will have shaped our temporal lives, even possibly stunting our eternal lives as well.

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bbsion
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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by bbsion »

Arenera wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:57 am
bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:48 am
Arenera wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:11 am
bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:04 am The way I see it is that confessing to a Bishop is sort of a lesser law. We are in the lone and dreary world and we are all on different levels of understanding. I have personally seen the peace that can come from confessing to a Bishop. I have also see the disaster that comes from confessing to an untrustworthy Bishop. The system is not perfect and is not applicable to everyone. It's set in place to help guide the masses in the telestial vehicle that is the Church. There are individuals that can find complete repentance without going to a Bishop. The reason we are counseled to go to the Bishop is because most people need the extra help. The act of confessing to a Bishop is an easy way to bring humility, which is essential when repenting. This is because you are talking with another imperfect person who (if they are sincere and trustworthy) can bring you peace through the process of a broken heart and contrite spirit. This is one of the best systems for the masses and I say that nearly everyone should observe at some point in their life. However, it (confessing to a Bishop) is not required to fully repent. Confessing to God most certainly is required. Again, just remember you cannot fool God. You cannot feign repentance and expect God to let you in.
Read Mosiah 26, it certainly is required to go to your bishop.
I have read it multiple times but I read it again, just now, for you.

Verse 1-4 is talking about wicked people who did not believe in God at all. They flattered people away from the Gospel in verse 6 and those people in the church committed many sins. At this time of mass sinning going on in the church it became expedient for those in the church to be admonished by the church. Expedient means “(of an action) convenient and practical, although possibly improper or immoral.”. Admonished means “advise or urge (someone) earnestly.”

Then King Mosiah gives Alma authority of the church. Basically, tells him it is your responsibility to help the masses get back in line due to the increased amount of sinning and hard hearts.

At this point Alma tells King Mosiah… this is overwhelming and there are too many people. A lot of them are not repentant at all so you judge them. Mosiah turns them back to Alma who starts to stress and then inquires of the Lord.

The Lord then says you are blessed Alma because of your faith and for organizing the masses into a church. They shall be my people (if they bear His name). It then seems that Alma has his calling and election made sure… making him the most trustworthy person for the unrepentant masses to go to in order to be set straight. Note: He's not a bishop.

Then the Lord says those who are baptized and call on Him are His and have their calling and election made sure. If the masses at this time did not repent and call upon God then they would be damned.

Verse 29 is likely what you are referring to since the Lord says “whosoever transgresseth against me, him shall ye judge according to the sins which he has committed; and if he confess his sins before thee and me, and repenteth in the sincerity of his heart, him shall ye forgive, and I will forgive him also.” This is highly pertaining to the situation at hand. There is mass sinning going around and many people have no intentions of repenting. The Lord, seeing that the masses are unrepentant, sets in place a system for these individuals that are having a hard time repenting to help them come unto Him. It’s required of these people to confess to Alma (who has had his calling and election made sure and is not Bishop) to be numbered among his people.

Later he says if the people say that they repented but they are still having problems with forgiving each other then they have obviously not repented.

“33 And it came to pass when Alma had heard these words he wrote them down that he might have them, and that he might judge the people of that church according to the commandments of God.
34 And it came to pass that Alma went and judged those that had been taken in iniquity, according to the word of the Lord.”

At this point Alma helped to regulate the church and put it back in order. Everyone is then admonished to pray unceasingly so they do not fall back into sin.

I have already said that confessing to a Bishop can be beneficial. I believe it's the best system in place for the church as a whole. It is not required for an individual that is repentant and has forsaken his sin to go to a Bishop. God knows his heart.

Edit: I also wanted to point out... who it's being said to is just as important as what is being said.
Sometimes people say scriptures only applied to that time. Sometimes people say scriptures also apply to us. Mosiah 26 applies to us. It is common knowledge that people confess to their bishop when they commit serious sin. That is clearly in Mosiah 26. Also see viewtopic.php?p=801725#p801722

Then there are the Isaiah scriptures. They apply in multiple instances. That is very amazing.
You have the right to interpret that scripture how you would like. Based on your response, I cannot help but feel that you either skimmed over or did not read what I wrote at all.

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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

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Silver wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:56 am I haven't read this thread, but the subject reminds me of the one entitled "Will My Bishop Tell My Parents" or something similar. That was trollish.

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Honestly, I agree these are 'troll' posts, and I think it's fair to say that when the person throws out a 'red meat' topic which does the job of livening up the board and getting us arguing. Notice the person who started it is nowhere to be found. But, to do this, someone on the forum must just create new accounts to post a thread and I guess, not use the account again. But yes, I agree, these are a form of 'trollish' posts. I think they aren't created to harm the forum, but to create some interest and get people participating.

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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

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I think the part about our sins affecting the entire faith community is a very valid point. Also, the idea that the bishop, being the "father" of the ward, can bear witness to the Church that we have confessed our sins, is a valid point. This harkens back to the charge given to those who are to be baptized that they must witness before the Church that they have truly repented and have taken upon them the Spirit of Christ. The bishop can stand as a witness to the Church that this is so. That makes sense to me.

-Finrock

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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by Gage »

Finrock wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 9:24 am I think the part about our sins affecting the entire faith community is a very valid point. Also, the idea that the bishop, being the "father" of the ward, can bear witness to the Church that we have confessed our sins. This harkens back to the charge given to those who are to be baptized that they must witness before the Church that they have truly repented and have taken upon them the Spirit of Christ. The bishop can stand as a witness to the Church that this is so. That makes sense to me.

-Finrock


Well that brings another question when dealing with community and/or sins that may affect others, if you know someone is sinning one of the more serious sins, do you tell on them?

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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by brlenox »

Finrock wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:40 am
Arenera wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:11 am
bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:04 am The way I see it is that confessing to a Bishop is sort of a lesser law. We are in the lone and dreary world and we are all on different levels of understanding. I have personally seen the peace that can come from confessing to a Bishop. I have also see the disaster that comes from confessing to an untrustworthy Bishop. The system is not perfect and is not applicable to everyone. It's set in place to help guide the masses in the telestial vehicle that is the Church. There are individuals that can find complete repentance without going to a Bishop. The reason we are counseled to go to the Bishop is because most people need the extra help. The act of confessing to a Bishop is an easy way to bring humility, which is essential when repenting. This is because you are talking with another imperfect person who (if they are sincere and trustworthy) can bring you peace through the process of a broken heart and contrite spirit. This is one of the best systems for the masses and I say that nearly everyone should observe at some point in their life. However, it (confessing to a Bishop) is not required to fully repent. Confessing to God most certainly is required. Again, just remember you cannot fool God. You cannot feign repentance and expect God to let you in.
Read Mosiah 26, it certainly is required to go to your bishop.
I quoted a more complete part of Mosiah 26 which provides more context and information and it does not say anything about how it is required to go to your bishop. There is no mention of bishop, no command, nothing like what you are saying. It does say that Jesus is the redeemer. It does say that Jesus forgives. It says that if a person confesses and they repent, they should be forgiven, no questions asks. Jesus said He is quick to forgive and we too should be quick to forgive. It provides counsel to Alma for the situation he is dealing with. Mosiah 26 doesn't support your idea that it certainly is required to go to your bishop.

-Finrock
The real tragedy of responses like these are they clearly can be reduced to simplest terms of I do not believe in living prophets. Historically, there was no mention of the position of "bishop" until New Testament times. Would we then expect Alma to speak to the term "Bishop"? No we would not. However, if we were seeking truth we might observe common elements that we could extrapolate a common thread to for a more probable and more accurate interpretation.

Let's work backwards from the statements above. First the observation that Alma is only receiving counsel for the situation he is dealing with. If this was a True or False quiz on Mosiah 26 we would have to answer FALSE. If the next question was to provide the verse or verses that clarify we could look all day long for a verse that implies this is a limited use bit of counsel. However, to validate that this was an ongoing condition of church governance we would look no further than verse 33. Please consider:
Mosiah 26:33
33 And it came to pass when Alma had heard these words he wrote them down that he might have them, and that he might judge the people of that church according to the commandments of God.
This is a very important statement. Alma is going to preserve this revelation that he has received, "that he might judge the people of that church according to the commandments of God." Very important and germane to the question of the OP is that Alma is stating that when the
commandments of God are breeched he now understands the method to judge those who sin in the fashion of breaching God's commandments. Clearly this is not for the moment but it is intended to become the ongoing process in governing the church.

The next observation that we consider is this statement from Mr. Finrocks statement: "It says that if a person confesses and they repent, they should be forgiven, no questions asks." Is that what it says? Or is there a bit of over simplification of the text. For clarity let's look observe this verse:
Mosiah 26:29

29 Therefore I say unto you, Go; and whosoever transgresseth against me, him shall ye judge according to the sins which he has committed; and if he confess his sins before thee and me, and repenteth in the sincerity of his heart, him shall ye forgive, and I will forgive him also.
Very clear is the fact that the text unequivocally declares that Alma is to judge them and take confession from them. That's what he does as the designated leader of the church in his area.

Now it is verse 30 that Mr. Finrock wants to elevate to a singular status as if somehow it negates what is said in verse 29
Mosiah 26:
30 Yea, and as often as my people repent will I forgive them their trespasses against me.
However, carving out preferred private interpretations is a poor practice especially in this case where Christ is simply continuing the development of the instruction that he has given in verse 29. There is a big "IF" in verse 29 places an awful lot of focus on what follows - IF he confesses before thee AND me - It is not "OR" me but "and" me. Very, very clear here that this is an element of what is defined as possessing a sincerity of heart. If one truly wishes to repent then he will confess his sins to the leader of this congregation, who is Alma, and he will confess them to Christ. However, the point is that it is a manifestation of "sincerity" to follow these instructions that the Lord provides. Failing to confess to Alma in this case could be construed as not making a sincere effort of repentance. Elsewise how can Alma forgive the sinner if the sinner does not inform the head of the congregation - Alma. Anything short of a sincere repentance will not garner Alma's forgiveness in behalf of the church, and more importantly a less than sincere repentance will not garner Christ's forgiveness either. So if you are sincere, a measure of that sincerity is manifests in confession to the appropriate leader of the congregation.

So verse 30 is the final word on the matter at this time and Christ is wrapping up what he started in verse 29 and not feeling the need to repeat it all again because it does seem very clear in verse 29. In 29 he defines what meets the definition of a sincere repentance and then in 30 he is saying that when the conditions of what I just said in verse 29 are met it will illustrate that the individual truly desires to repent and when they do he will forgive them.

Now these verses are not all that is said on this matter. In fact living apostles and living prophets of this last dispensation have counseled the saints in a multitude of ways concerning the proper manner of repentance. Unlike Alma's day, we are not dealing with just one congregation but each congregation does have a leader who occupies the exact same slot and responsibilities as Alma, the leader of his congregation. Bishops and Branch Presidents serve in the same capacity as Alma and this instruction here is perfectly applicable to the modern church organization.

Now really the question of the OP is actually a bit broader than it first appears. It really is a referendum on whether you believe in living apostles and prophets who have counseled extensively in these matters. If you do not believe that Thomas S. Monson and all those who proceeded him are entrusted of God to counsel the saints on matters of repentance then by all means follow Mr. Finrocks advice - it will not matter anyway because then you can pick and choose whatever appeals to you and it will only reinforce your rejection of the prophets. However, if you believe in Jesus Christ and that this is The Church of Jesus Christ then you will manifest your faith that he has called and selected righteous men to lead his people and you will want to be found amongst those who have repented sincerely of your sins that you too may reap the greatest blessing that man can ever hope for. A sincere repentance is a small price to pay for blessings unparalleled. It is difficult, but so was Christ's sacrifice. In this way you acknowledge that you respect how hard it was for Him by obeying the hard things he asks of you. God's speed.
Last edited by brlenox on August 23rd, 2017, 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Z2100
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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by Z2100 »

5 Words:

GO SEE THE BISHOP NOW

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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by brlenox »

bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:04 am The way I see it is that confessing to a Bishop is sort of a lesser law. We are in the lone and dreary world and we are all on different levels of understanding. I have personally seen the peace that can come from confessing to a Bishop. I have also see the disaster that comes from confessing to an untrustworthy Bishop. The system is not perfect and is not applicable to everyone. It's set in place to help guide the masses in the telestial vehicle that is the Church. There are individuals that can find complete repentance without going to a Bishop. The reason we are counseled to go to the Bishop is because most people need the extra help. The act of confessing to a Bishop is an easy way to bring humility, which is essential when repenting. This is because you are talking with another imperfect person who (if they are sincere and trustworthy) can bring you peace through the process of a broken heart and contrite spirit. This is one of the best systems for the masses and I say that nearly everyone should observe at some point in their life. However, it (confessing to a Bishop) is not required to fully repent. Confessing to God most certainly is required. Again, just remember you cannot fool God. You cannot feign repentance and expect God to let you in.
Beyond doubt you fail to understand this principle. Having taken many, many confessions in this capacity discussed, and thus being on a "different level" as you call it, I can offer a couple of other insights that I think you are clearly missing. We talk about, as you mention the benefits of needing extra help and a Bishop provides that. We can discuss how pleasant it is to walk into a Bishops office and leave with a lighter burden surely wonderful things. However, if that was the only impact of not confessing our sins just a little discomfort well maybe we could just let it go at "meh, don't worry about it, it'll fade with time. However it is never so simple.

In the temple the phrase "all truth can be circumscribed into one great whole" is significant if you want to try to grasp the ramifications of our actions on the great whole. For instance if as a priesthood holder you have never given a blessing of power where someone is healed in an instant it may not occur to you that power and authority is bought with a price that each individual priesthood holder must pay. Consider Elder Russel M. Nelson's observations concerning his fear for those who may need to exercise their priesthood in power:
Well, brethren, in like manner, I fear that there are too many men who have been given the authority of the priesthood but who lack priesthood power because the flow of power has been blocked by sins such as laziness, dishonesty, pride, immorality, or preoccupation with things of the world.(The Price of Priesthood Power By President Russell M. Nelson April 2016)
For most, especially in this case of a grievous moral transgression such as is the object of this OP, to counsel them that they do not need to confess their sins of this nature to their Bishop is to potentially make priesthood eunuchs of them by undermining their access to priesthood power.

Consider upon this additional thought that Elder Nelson provides:
In a coming day, only those men who have taken their priesthood seriously, by diligently seeking to be taught by the Lord Himself, will be able to bless, guide, protect, strengthen, and heal others. Only a man who has paid the price for priesthood power will be able to bring miracles to those he loves and keep his marriage and family safe, now and throughout eternity.(The Price of Priesthood Power By President Russell M. Nelson April 2016
This is just one small example of how there are ramifications to bad advice and failing to properly manage our serious transgressions may leave us fathers and husbands eviscerated in our roles as protectors of our families. No one knows when he will be put in a position where someone will seek him out to bless them in suffering or even a child near death but for the blessing of power from one who knows he stands before the Lord having properly addressed his sins and that he stands capable of calling down the power of heaven to bless those around him.

Elder Nelson calls it paying the price for priesthood power. It is called a price because it requires something from us. We must be pure and that calls for repentance. Now this is just one area but it should serve to illustrate that there are ramifications to not being obedient in the requirements of proper repentance but it impacts in a dozen more ways as well. Give Satan no ability to rob you of your abilities in the Gospel and in the priesthood. Do it right and when required such as the transgression of the OP confess to your Bishop.

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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by bbsion »

brlenox wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 12:28 pm
bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:04 am The way I see it is that confessing to a Bishop is sort of a lesser law. We are in the lone and dreary world and we are all on different levels of understanding. I have personally seen the peace that can come from confessing to a Bishop. I have also see the disaster that comes from confessing to an untrustworthy Bishop. The system is not perfect and is not applicable to everyone. It's set in place to help guide the masses in the telestial vehicle that is the Church. There are individuals that can find complete repentance without going to a Bishop. The reason we are counseled to go to the Bishop is because most people need the extra help. The act of confessing to a Bishop is an easy way to bring humility, which is essential when repenting. This is because you are talking with another imperfect person who (if they are sincere and trustworthy) can bring you peace through the process of a broken heart and contrite spirit. This is one of the best systems for the masses and I say that nearly everyone should observe at some point in their life. However, it (confessing to a Bishop) is not required to fully repent. Confessing to God most certainly is required. Again, just remember you cannot fool God. You cannot feign repentance and expect God to let you in.
Beyond doubt you fail to understand this principle. Having taken many, many confessions in this capacity discussed, and thus being on a "different level" as you call it, I can offer a couple of other insights that I think you are clearly missing. We talk about, as you mention the benefits of needing extra help and a Bishop provides that. We can discuss how pleasant it is to walk into a Bishops office and leave with a lighter burden surely wonderful things. However, if that was the only impact of not confessing our sins just a little discomfort well maybe we could just let it go at "meh, don't worry about it, it'll fade with time. However it is never so simple.

In the temple the phrase "all truth can be circumscribed into one great whole" is significant if you want to try to grasp the ramifications of our actions on the great whole. For instance if as a priesthood holder you have never given a blessing of power where someone is healed in an instant it may not occur to you that power and authority is bought with a price that each individual priesthood holder must pay. Consider Elder Russel M. Nelson's observations concerning his fear for those who may need to exercise their priesthood in power:
Well, brethren, in like manner, I fear that there are too many men who have been given the authority of the priesthood but who lack priesthood power because the flow of power has been blocked by sins such as laziness, dishonesty, pride, immorality, or preoccupation with things of the world.(The Price of Priesthood Power By President Russell M. Nelson April 2016)
For most, especially in this case of a grievous moral transgression such as is the object of this OP, to counsel them that they do not need to confess their sins of this nature to their Bishop is to potentially make priesthood eunuchs of them by undermining their access to priesthood power.

Consider upon this additional thought that Elder Nelson provides:
In a coming day, only those men who have taken their priesthood seriously, by diligently seeking to be taught by the Lord Himself, will be able to bless, guide, protect, strengthen, and heal others. Only a man who has paid the price for priesthood power will be able to bring miracles to those he loves and keep his marriage and family safe, now and throughout eternity.(The Price of Priesthood Power By President Russell M. Nelson April 2016
This is just one small example of how there are ramifications to bad advice and failing to properly manage our serious transgressions may leave us fathers and husbands eviscerated in our roles as protectors of our families. No one knows when he will be put in a position where someone will seek him out to bless them in suffering or even a child near death but for the blessing of power from one who knows he stands before the Lord having properly addressed his sins and that he stands capable of calling down the power of heaven to bless those around him.

Elder Nelson calls it paying the price for priesthood power. It is called a price because it requires something from us. We must be pure and that calls for repentance. Now this is just one area but it should serve to illustrate that there are ramifications to not being obedient in the requirements of proper repentance but it impacts in a dozen more ways as well. Give Satan no ability to rob you of your abilities in the Gospel and in the priesthood. Do it right and when required such as the transgression of the OP confess to your Bishop.
I appreciate your input. However, it might be beneficial to lose the condescending tone. I still stand by what I said. :)

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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

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Silver wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:56 am I haven't read this thread, but the subject reminds me of the one entitled "Will My Bishop Tell My Parents" or something similar. That was trollish.

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This is a very good point. Why do you think the OP decided to do this? To generate discussion? To get real input with a real question they had? Maybe they are conducting an experiment to see how divisive church members are on certain topics...

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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by Silver »

bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 1:41 pm
Silver wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:56 am I haven't read this thread, but the subject reminds me of the one entitled "Will My Bishop Tell My Parents" or something similar. That was trollish.

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This is a very good point. Why do you think the OP decided to do this? To generate discussion? To get real input with a real question they had? Maybe they are conducting an experiment to see how divisive church members are on certain topics...
I think we occasionally have trolls come on the forum who drop a stink bomb and then leave only to return later and start another controversial thread which makes the natives restless. As mentioned, I didn't even read the original post of this thread. The title just looked suspicious.

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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by brlenox »

bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 1:38 pm
brlenox wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 12:28 pm
bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:04 am The way I see it is that confessing to a Bishop is sort of a lesser law. We are in the lone and dreary world and we are all on different levels of understanding. I have personally seen the peace that can come from confessing to a Bishop. I have also see the disaster that comes from confessing to an untrustworthy Bishop. The system is not perfect and is not applicable to everyone. It's set in place to help guide the masses in the telestial vehicle that is the Church. There are individuals that can find complete repentance without going to a Bishop. The reason we are counseled to go to the Bishop is because most people need the extra help. The act of confessing to a Bishop is an easy way to bring humility, which is essential when repenting. This is because you are talking with another imperfect person who (if they are sincere and trustworthy) can bring you peace through the process of a broken heart and contrite spirit. This is one of the best systems for the masses and I say that nearly everyone should observe at some point in their life. However, it (confessing to a Bishop) is not required to fully repent. Confessing to God most certainly is required. Again, just remember you cannot fool God. You cannot feign repentance and expect God to let you in.
Beyond doubt you fail to understand this principle. Having taken many, many confessions in this capacity discussed, and thus being on a "different level" as you call it, I can offer a couple of other insights that I think you are clearly missing. We talk about, as you mention the benefits of needing extra help and a Bishop provides that. We can discuss how pleasant it is to walk into a Bishops office and leave with a lighter burden surely wonderful things. However, if that was the only impact of not confessing our sins just a little discomfort well maybe we could just let it go at "meh, don't worry about it, it'll fade with time. However it is never so simple.

In the temple the phrase "all truth can be circumscribed into one great whole" is significant if you want to try to grasp the ramifications of our actions on the great whole. For instance if as a priesthood holder you have never given a blessing of power where someone is healed in an instant it may not occur to you that power and authority is bought with a price that each individual priesthood holder must pay. Consider Elder Russel M. Nelson's observations concerning his fear for those who may need to exercise their priesthood in power:
Well, brethren, in like manner, I fear that there are too many men who have been given the authority of the priesthood but who lack priesthood power because the flow of power has been blocked by sins such as laziness, dishonesty, pride, immorality, or preoccupation with things of the world.(The Price of Priesthood Power By President Russell M. Nelson April 2016)
For most, especially in this case of a grievous moral transgression such as is the object of this OP, to counsel them that they do not need to confess their sins of this nature to their Bishop is to potentially make priesthood eunuchs of them by undermining their access to priesthood power.

Consider upon this additional thought that Elder Nelson provides:
In a coming day, only those men who have taken their priesthood seriously, by diligently seeking to be taught by the Lord Himself, will be able to bless, guide, protect, strengthen, and heal others. Only a man who has paid the price for priesthood power will be able to bring miracles to those he loves and keep his marriage and family safe, now and throughout eternity.(The Price of Priesthood Power By President Russell M. Nelson April 2016
This is just one small example of how there are ramifications to bad advice and failing to properly manage our serious transgressions may leave us fathers and husbands eviscerated in our roles as protectors of our families. No one knows when he will be put in a position where someone will seek him out to bless them in suffering or even a child near death but for the blessing of power from one who knows he stands before the Lord having properly addressed his sins and that he stands capable of calling down the power of heaven to bless those around him.

Elder Nelson calls it paying the price for priesthood power. It is called a price because it requires something from us. We must be pure and that calls for repentance. Now this is just one area but it should serve to illustrate that there are ramifications to not being obedient in the requirements of proper repentance but it impacts in a dozen more ways as well. Give Satan no ability to rob you of your abilities in the Gospel and in the priesthood. Do it right and when required such as the transgression of the OP confess to your Bishop.
I appreciate your input. However, it might be beneficial to lose the condescending tone. I still stand by what I said. :)
Condescending? Me? Surely you must jest. Nonetheless your response reminds me of something I read many years ago in a book titled "Truth" by Alvin R. Dyer a person I might condescendingly assume you have never heard of. However, it was an observation about the distinctions of those born as Gentiles and that one of the overriding behaviors was that they lacked the necessity of full commitment such as was nature of those born into the House of Israel. Gentiles on the other hand were perfectly comfortable with picking and choosing what commandments they could obey and which ones were just too troublesome to bother with. When I first read the idea, it struck me as a brilliant observation of the mentality that encapsulated an excellent characterization of a behavior that permeates true Gentile existence.

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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by RAB »

HomeStar182 wrote: August 21st, 2017, 2:16 am Hello everyone!

Thanks for helping me with something I'm struggling with.

8 months ago I had sex with a friend of mine. I have personally repented of it. I have taken it to the lord and have forsaken my actions. I will wait until marriage from now on.

My question is, is the repentance process incomplete until I confess to my bishop?

Thanks again.
I haven't read all the other posts, but let me just say that the bishop is ordained not just as a bishop but as a common judge in Israel. Among the keys he holds are the keys of repentance (for serious transgressions) and the keys to the administration of the sacrament. A bishop cannot forgive sins, but he can help you work through the repentance process fully to ensure you are again worthy to partake of the sacrament and recommit yourself to following the savior. Often times a confession will end the repentance process where a person has taken all of the other steps necessary, but just needs clearance from the one holding the keys of repentance and the keys of the sacrament in order to move forward. But every situation is different.

Also, most bishops I know are very loving, understanding, and guided by the spirit in the steps to take to help others through the repentance process.
Surely after talking to him you will feel the Savior's love for you and a great weight lifted from your shoulders.

I wish you the best!

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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by bbsion »

Silver wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 2:00 pm
bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 1:41 pm
Silver wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:56 am I haven't read this thread, but the subject reminds me of the one entitled "Will My Bishop Tell My Parents" or something similar. That was trollish.

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This is a very good point. Why do you think the OP decided to do this? To generate discussion? To get real input with a real question they had? Maybe they are conducting an experiment to see how divisive church members are on certain topics...
I think we occasionally have trolls come on the forum who drop a stink bomb and then leave only to return later and start another controversial thread which makes the natives restless. As mentioned, I didn't even read the original post of this thread. The title just looked suspicious.
It's clickbait! Dang... and I took the bait.

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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by bbsion »

brlenox wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 2:02 pm
bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 1:38 pm
brlenox wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 12:28 pm
bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 8:04 am The way I see it is that confessing to a Bishop is sort of a lesser law. We are in the lone and dreary world and we are all on different levels of understanding. I have personally seen the peace that can come from confessing to a Bishop. I have also see the disaster that comes from confessing to an untrustworthy Bishop. The system is not perfect and is not applicable to everyone. It's set in place to help guide the masses in the telestial vehicle that is the Church. There are individuals that can find complete repentance without going to a Bishop. The reason we are counseled to go to the Bishop is because most people need the extra help. The act of confessing to a Bishop is an easy way to bring humility, which is essential when repenting. This is because you are talking with another imperfect person who (if they are sincere and trustworthy) can bring you peace through the process of a broken heart and contrite spirit. This is one of the best systems for the masses and I say that nearly everyone should observe at some point in their life. However, it (confessing to a Bishop) is not required to fully repent. Confessing to God most certainly is required. Again, just remember you cannot fool God. You cannot feign repentance and expect God to let you in.
Beyond doubt you fail to understand this principle. Having taken many, many confessions in this capacity discussed, and thus being on a "different level" as you call it, I can offer a couple of other insights that I think you are clearly missing. We talk about, as you mention the benefits of needing extra help and a Bishop provides that. We can discuss how pleasant it is to walk into a Bishops office and leave with a lighter burden surely wonderful things. However, if that was the only impact of not confessing our sins just a little discomfort well maybe we could just let it go at "meh, don't worry about it, it'll fade with time. However it is never so simple.

In the temple the phrase "all truth can be circumscribed into one great whole" is significant if you want to try to grasp the ramifications of our actions on the great whole. For instance if as a priesthood holder you have never given a blessing of power where someone is healed in an instant it may not occur to you that power and authority is bought with a price that each individual priesthood holder must pay. Consider Elder Russel M. Nelson's observations concerning his fear for those who may need to exercise their priesthood in power:
Well, brethren, in like manner, I fear that there are too many men who have been given the authority of the priesthood but who lack priesthood power because the flow of power has been blocked by sins such as laziness, dishonesty, pride, immorality, or preoccupation with things of the world.(The Price of Priesthood Power By President Russell M. Nelson April 2016)
For most, especially in this case of a grievous moral transgression such as is the object of this OP, to counsel them that they do not need to confess their sins of this nature to their Bishop is to potentially make priesthood eunuchs of them by undermining their access to priesthood power.

Consider upon this additional thought that Elder Nelson provides:
In a coming day, only those men who have taken their priesthood seriously, by diligently seeking to be taught by the Lord Himself, will be able to bless, guide, protect, strengthen, and heal others. Only a man who has paid the price for priesthood power will be able to bring miracles to those he loves and keep his marriage and family safe, now and throughout eternity.(The Price of Priesthood Power By President Russell M. Nelson April 2016
This is just one small example of how there are ramifications to bad advice and failing to properly manage our serious transgressions may leave us fathers and husbands eviscerated in our roles as protectors of our families. No one knows when he will be put in a position where someone will seek him out to bless them in suffering or even a child near death but for the blessing of power from one who knows he stands before the Lord having properly addressed his sins and that he stands capable of calling down the power of heaven to bless those around him.

Elder Nelson calls it paying the price for priesthood power. It is called a price because it requires something from us. We must be pure and that calls for repentance. Now this is just one area but it should serve to illustrate that there are ramifications to not being obedient in the requirements of proper repentance but it impacts in a dozen more ways as well. Give Satan no ability to rob you of your abilities in the Gospel and in the priesthood. Do it right and when required such as the transgression of the OP confess to your Bishop.
I appreciate your input. However, it might be beneficial to lose the condescending tone. I still stand by what I said. :)
Condescending? Me? Surely you must jest. ...

I am taking that as sarcasm and I am stepping out of this discussion with you. I still stand by what I said. :)

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brlenox
A sheep in wolf in sheep's clothing
Posts: 2615

Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by brlenox »

bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 2:45 pm
brlenox wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 2:02 pm
bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 1:38 pm
brlenox wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 12:28 pm

Beyond doubt you fail to understand this principle. Having taken many, many confessions in this capacity discussed, and thus being on a "different level" as you call it, I can offer a couple of other insights that I think you are clearly missing. We talk about, as you mention the benefits of needing extra help and a Bishop provides that. We can discuss how pleasant it is to walk into a Bishops office and leave with a lighter burden surely wonderful things. However, if that was the only impact of not confessing our sins just a little discomfort well maybe we could just let it go at "meh, don't worry about it, it'll fade with time. However it is never so simple.

In the temple the phrase "all truth can be circumscribed into one great whole" is significant if you want to try to grasp the ramifications of our actions on the great whole. For instance if as a priesthood holder you have never given a blessing of power where someone is healed in an instant it may not occur to you that power and authority is bought with a price that each individual priesthood holder must pay. Consider Elder Russel M. Nelson's observations concerning his fear for those who may need to exercise their priesthood in power:



For most, especially in this case of a grievous moral transgression such as is the object of this OP, to counsel them that they do not need to confess their sins of this nature to their Bishop is to potentially make priesthood eunuchs of them by undermining their access to priesthood power.

Consider upon this additional thought that Elder Nelson provides:



This is just one small example of how there are ramifications to bad advice and failing to properly manage our serious transgressions may leave us fathers and husbands eviscerated in our roles as protectors of our families. No one knows when he will be put in a position where someone will seek him out to bless them in suffering or even a child near death but for the blessing of power from one who knows he stands before the Lord having properly addressed his sins and that he stands capable of calling down the power of heaven to bless those around him.

Elder Nelson calls it paying the price for priesthood power. It is called a price because it requires something from us. We must be pure and that calls for repentance. Now this is just one area but it should serve to illustrate that there are ramifications to not being obedient in the requirements of proper repentance but it impacts in a dozen more ways as well. Give Satan no ability to rob you of your abilities in the Gospel and in the priesthood. Do it right and when required such as the transgression of the OP confess to your Bishop.
I appreciate your input. However, it might be beneficial to lose the condescending tone. I still stand by what I said. :)
Condescending? Me? Surely you must jest. ...

I am taking that as sarcasm and I am stepping out of this discussion with you. I still stand by what I said. :)
Nobody has a sense of humor this days. Hopefully you are not so easily offended in more important things in life. Best of luck to you.

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bbsion
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Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by bbsion »

brlenox wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 3:12 pm
bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 2:45 pm
brlenox wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 2:02 pm
bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 1:38 pm

I appreciate your input. However, it might be beneficial to lose the condescending tone. I still stand by what I said. :)
Condescending? Me? Surely you must jest. ...

I am taking that as sarcasm and I am stepping out of this discussion with you. I still stand by what I said. :)
Nobody has a sense of humor this days. Hopefully you are not so easily offended in more important things in life. Best of luck to you.
My apologies. Perhaps it's because I am not used to your humor and anything said over the internet can be taken wrong.

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brlenox
A sheep in wolf in sheep's clothing
Posts: 2615

Re: Should I confess to the bishop?

Post by brlenox »

bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 3:18 pm
brlenox wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 3:12 pm
bbsion wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 2:45 pm
brlenox wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 2:02 pm

Condescending? Me? Surely you must jest. ...

I am taking that as sarcasm and I am stepping out of this discussion with you. I still stand by what I said. :)
Nobody has a sense of humor this days. Hopefully you are not so easily offended in more important things in life. Best of luck to you.
My apologies. Perhaps it's because I am not used to your humor and anything said over the internet can be taken wrong.
No problem. I'm too old to use emoji's to soften my generally direct tone and my sense of humor is often not very humorous. I guess...

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