Should I confess to the bishop?

[freedomforall]

As I said before, SHOULD YOU talk to your Bishop? Yes.

Is this process dependent on your Bishop? No, do not be blinded into thinking your salvation depends on him. You must work out your salvation with God, your church leaders are here to help you, there are not here to save you because they cannot save you. There are countless stories in the scriptures and stories of Latter Day Saints who repented and were born of God, receiving a remission of sins without ever involving a single other person in he process.

I think you create confusion when you try to reply with excessive insight to a simple problem and that insight really is simply your perspective but it is not consistent with the Doctrine of the church.

Your first sentence answers the question that was asked and is absolutely correct. Your second paragraph muddies the waters and complicates the issue. A bishop does forgive in behalf of the church. So while Christ is the true source of final forgiveness he requires that we consider the roles of his servants in the process. Once one has complied by taking the proper issues to their Bishop, then they take it to Christ and seek his forgiveness.

+1
Why confuse people with facts when we can have closets to hide our sins in?

[brlenox]

As I said before, SHOULD YOU talk to your Bishop? Yes.

Is this process dependent on your Bishop? No, do not be blinded into thinking your salvation depends on him. You must work out your salvation with God, your church leaders are here to help you, there are not here to save you because they cannot save you. There are countless stories in the scriptures and stories of Latter Day Saints who repented and were born of God, receiving a remission of sins without ever involving a single other person in he process.

I think you create confusion when you try to reply with excessive insight to a simple problem and that insight really is simply your perspective but it is not consistent with the Doctrine of the church.

Your first sentence answers the question that was asked and is absolutely correct. Your second paragraph muddies the waters and complicates the issue. A bishop does forgive in behalf of the church. So while Christ is the true source of final forgiveness he requires that we consider the roles of his servants in the process. Once one has complied by taking the proper issues to their Bishop, then they take it to Christ and seek his forgiveness.

+1
Why confuse people with facts when we can have closets to hide our sins in?

I am not following your response.

[freedomforall]

As I said before, SHOULD YOU talk to your Bishop? Yes.

Is this process dependent on your Bishop? No, do not be blinded into thinking your salvation depends on him. You must work out your salvation with God, your church leaders are here to help you, there are not here to save you because they cannot save you. There are countless stories in the scriptures and stories of Latter Day Saints who repented and were born of God, receiving a remission of sins without ever involving a single other person in he process.

I think you create confusion when you try to reply with excessive insight to a simple problem and that insight really is simply your perspective but it is not consistent with the Doctrine of the church.

Your first sentence answers the question that was asked and is absolutely correct. Your second paragraph muddies the waters and complicates the issue. A bishop does forgive in behalf of the church. So while Christ is the true source of final forgiveness he requires that we consider the roles of his servants in the process. Once one has complied by taking the proper issues to their Bishop, then they take it to Christ and seek his forgiveness.

+1
Why confuse people with facts when we can have closets to hide our sins in?

I am not following your response.

Some say we need not confess to a bishop. So I concluded that all man has to do is hide their sins so they can pretend they're forgiven.

[Gage]

Why can church Members not see it? You confess to the Bishop who in turns keeps you OUT of the Temple so no unclean thing enters the Lords house. Not until you are ready do you enter, I dont think just saying a repentance prayer is enough to be forgiven (where temple recommends are concerned). Read the scriptures. The Lord is coming for you first, you that think you can skirt the rules and still think you can enter the Temple. Some of you are missing the whole point of confessing to your Bishop.

[Finrock]

As I said before, SHOULD YOU talk to your Bishop? Yes.

Is this process dependent on your Bishop? No, do not be blinded into thinking your salvation depends on him. You must work out your salvation with God, your church leaders are here to help you, there are not here to save you because they cannot save you. There are countless stories in the scriptures and stories of Latter Day Saints who repented and were born of God, receiving a remission of sins without ever involving a single other person in he process.

I think you create confusion when you try to reply with excessive insight to a simple problem and that insight really is simply your perspective but it is not consistent with the Doctrine of the church.

Your first sentence answers the question that was asked and is absolutely correct. Your second paragraph muddies the waters and complicates the issue. A bishop does forgive in behalf of the church. So while Christ is the true source of final forgiveness he requires that we consider the roles of his servants in the process. Once one has complied by taking the proper issues to their Bishop, then they take it to Christ and seek his forgiveness.

While we should not pretend to be good when we are not and we ought not to be afraid to stand before others flawed and sinful, there is no mortal intermediary that stands between you and Christ with whom you must first go to before you can go to Christ.

In the Church the bishops stands as a temporary proxy for Christ. Many people have not progressed in their life to the point where they actually know Christ yet and a bishop fills the role of having someone physical and present that we can go to with confidence who should treat us with compassion and understanding. A sinner who doesn't believe that Christ is available to them and who has never felt love, compassion, and understanding can benefit a lot from going to a bishop who is filled with those things. This bishop can direct them to Christ, helping that person along the way. However, it is a false tradition to believe that before a person can be forgiven by Christ they must go "through" the "bishop gate". These gates and switches that people create in their minds wherein you must traverse before you get to Christ is falsehood and ultimately damning. It keeps people in submission to a mortal. Mortals who want to be obeyed, respected, and listened to will also fight to retain these gates and switches where they stand and have power to either open or close those gates and switches.

-Finrock

[Arenera]

As I said before, SHOULD YOU talk to your Bishop? Yes.

Is this process dependent on your Bishop? No, do not be blinded into thinking your salvation depends on him. You must work out your salvation with God, your church leaders are here to help you, there are not here to save you because they cannot save you. There are countless stories in the scriptures and stories of Latter Day Saints who repented and were born of God, receiving a remission of sins without ever involving a single other person in he process.

I think you create confusion when you try to reply with excessive insight to a simple problem and that insight really is simply your perspective but it is not consistent with the Doctrine of the church.

Your first sentence answers the question that was asked and is absolutely correct. Your second paragraph muddies the waters and complicates the issue. A bishop does forgive in behalf of the church. So while Christ is the true source of final forgiveness he requires that we consider the roles of his servants in the process. Once one has complied by taking the proper issues to their Bishop, then they take it to Christ and seek his forgiveness.

While we should not pretend to be good when we are not and we ought not to be afraid to stand before others flawed and sinful, there is no mortal intermediary that stands between you and Christ with whom you must first go to before you can go to Christ.

In the Church the bishops stands as a temporary proxy for Christ. Many people have not progressed in their life to the point where they actually know Christ yet and a bishop fills the role of having someone physical and present that we can go to with confidence who should treat us with compassion and understanding. A sinner who doesn't believe that Christ is available to them and who has never felt love, compassion, and understanding can benefit a lot from going to a bishop who is filled with those things. This bishop can direct them to Christ, helping that person along the way. However, it is a false tradition to believe that before a person can be forgiven by Christ they must go "through" the "bishop gate". These gates and switches that people create in their minds wherein you must traverse before you get to Christ is falsehood and ultimately damning. It keeps people in submission to a mortal. Mortals who want to be obeyed, respected, and listened to will also fight to retain these gates and switches where they stand and have power to either open or close those gates and switches.

-Finrock

You are incorrect and preaching your own philosophy which is not consistent with doctrine and how Christ's church operates.

See Sexual sin serious; Confessing to church leaders

[Michelle]

Look at it this way: if you don't need to confess to the bishop, but you do, he will confirm that. Problem solved.

If you do need to confess to the bishop and you do, he will confirm that, problem solved.

If you do need to confess to the bishop and you don't, it will cause problems, problem not solved.

It seems that confessing and getting his input would be the logical answer to ensuring the problem is solved. Not confessing leaves the door open to the problem not being solved.

[Finrock]

As I said before, SHOULD YOU talk to your Bishop? Yes.

Is this process dependent on your Bishop? No, do not be blinded into thinking your salvation depends on him. You must work out your salvation with God, your church leaders are here to help you, there are not here to save you because they cannot save you. There are countless stories in the scriptures and stories of Latter Day Saints who repented and were born of God, receiving a remission of sins without ever involving a single other person in he process.

I think you create confusion when you try to reply with excessive insight to a simple problem and that insight really is simply your perspective but it is not consistent with the Doctrine of the church.

Your first sentence answers the question that was asked and is absolutely correct. Your second paragraph muddies the waters and complicates the issue. A bishop does forgive in behalf of the church. So while Christ is the true source of final forgiveness he requires that we consider the roles of his servants in the process. Once one has complied by taking the proper issues to their Bishop, then they take it to Christ and seek his forgiveness.

While we should not pretend to be good when we are not and we ought not to be afraid to stand before others flawed and sinful, there is no mortal intermediary that stands between you and Christ with whom you must first go to before you can go to Christ.

In the Church the bishops stands as a temporary proxy for Christ. Many people have not progressed in their life to the point where they actually know Christ yet and a bishop fills the role of having someone physical and present that we can go to with confidence who should treat us with compassion and understanding. A sinner who doesn't believe that Christ is available to them and who has never felt love, compassion, and understanding can benefit a lot from going to a bishop who is filled with those things. This bishop can direct them to Christ, helping that person along the way. However, it is a false tradition to believe that before a person can be forgiven by Christ they must go "through" the "bishop gate". These gates and switches that people create in their minds wherein you must traverse before you get to Christ is falsehood and ultimately damning. It keeps people in submission to a mortal. Mortals who want to be obeyed, respected, and listened to will also fight to retain these gates and switches where they stand and have power to either open or close those gates and switches.

-Finrock

You are incorrect and preaching your own philosophy which is not consistent with doctrine and how Christ's church operates.

See Sexual sin serious; Confessing to church leaders

I am not incorrect, I am not preaching my own philosophy, what I am preaching is consistent with doctrine in the scriptures but I agree it may not be how the Church operates. It is, however, how Christ operates.

-Finrock

[Mark]

As I said before, SHOULD YOU talk to your Bishop? Yes.

Is this process dependent on your Bishop? No, do not be blinded into thinking your salvation depends on him. You must work out your salvation with God, your church leaders are here to help you, there are not here to save you because they cannot save you. There are countless stories in the scriptures and stories of Latter Day Saints who repented and were born of God, receiving a remission of sins without ever involving a single other person in he process.

I think you create confusion when you try to reply with excessive insight to a simple problem and that insight really is simply your perspective but it is not consistent with the Doctrine of the church.

Your first sentence answers the question that was asked and is absolutely correct. Your second paragraph muddies the waters and complicates the issue. A bishop does forgive in behalf of the church. So while Christ is the true source of final forgiveness he requires that we consider the roles of his servants in the process. Once one has complied by taking the proper issues to their Bishop, then they take it to Christ and seek his forgiveness.

While we should not pretend to be good when we are not and we ought not to be afraid to stand before others flawed and sinful, there is no mortal intermediary that stands between you and Christ with whom you must first go to before you can go to Christ.

In the Church the bishops stands as a temporary proxy for Christ. Many people have not progressed in their life to the point where they actually know Christ yet and a bishop fills the role of having someone physical and present that we can go to with confidence who should treat us with compassion and understanding. A sinner who doesn't believe that Christ is available to them and who has never felt love, compassion, and understanding can benefit a lot from going to a bishop who is filled with those things. This bishop can direct them to Christ, helping that person along the way. However, it is a false tradition to believe that before a person can be forgiven by Christ they must go "through" the "bishop gate". These gates and switches that people create in their minds wherein you must traverse before you get to Christ is falsehood and ultimately damning. It keeps people in submission to a mortal. Mortals who want to be obeyed, respected, and listened to will also fight to retain these gates and switches where they stand and have power to either open or close those gates and switches.

-Finrock

You are incorrect and preaching your own philosophy which is not consistent with doctrine and how Christ's church operates.

See Sexual sin serious; Confessing to church leaders

Finrock belongs to the church of Finrock. He has obviously become a law unto himself. He picks and chooses which parts of the restored church to include in his own church. If something doesn't suit his fancy he rejects it as a "false tradition". Confessions to church authorities for serious transgressions has been a part of the restored church since the beginning of the restoration. This Is nothing new.

[brlenox]

I think you create confusion when you try to reply with excessive insight to a simple problem and that insight really is simply your perspective but it is not consistent with the Doctrine of the church.

Your first sentence answers the question that was asked and is absolutely correct. Your second paragraph muddies the waters and complicates the issue. A bishop does forgive in behalf of the church. So while Christ is the true source of final forgiveness he requires that we consider the roles of his servants in the process. Once one has complied by taking the proper issues to their Bishop, then they take it to Christ and seek his forgiveness.

While we should not pretend to be good when we are not and we ought not to be afraid to stand before others flawed and sinful, there is no mortal intermediary that stands between you and Christ with whom you must first go to before you can go to Christ.

In the Church the bishops stands as a temporary proxy for Christ. Many people have not progressed in their life to the point where they actually know Christ yet and a bishop fills the role of having someone physical and present that we can go to with confidence who should treat us with compassion and understanding. A sinner who doesn't believe that Christ is available to them and who has never felt love, compassion, and understanding can benefit a lot from going to a bishop who is filled with those things. This bishop can direct them to Christ, helping that person along the way. However, it is a false tradition to believe that before a person can be forgiven by Christ they must go "through" the "bishop gate". These gates and switches that people create in their minds wherein you must traverse before you get to Christ is falsehood and ultimately damning. It keeps people in submission to a mortal. Mortals who want to be obeyed, respected, and listened to will also fight to retain these gates and switches where they stand and have power to either open or close those gates and switches.

-Finrock

You are incorrect and preaching your own philosophy which is not consistent with doctrine and how Christ's church operates.

See Sexual sin serious; Confessing to church leaders

I am not incorrect, I am not preaching my own philosophy, what I am preaching is consistent with doctrine in the scriptures but I agree it may not be how the Church operates. It is, however, how Christ operates.

-Finrock

Is that because you do not see Christ as the head of His Church?

[Finrock]

I think you create confusion when you try to reply with excessive insight to a simple problem and that insight really is simply your perspective but it is not consistent with the Doctrine of the church.

Your first sentence answers the question that was asked and is absolutely correct. Your second paragraph muddies the waters and complicates the issue. A bishop does forgive in behalf of the church. So while Christ is the true source of final forgiveness he requires that we consider the roles of his servants in the process. Once one has complied by taking the proper issues to their Bishop, then they take it to Christ and seek his forgiveness.

While we should not pretend to be good when we are not and we ought not to be afraid to stand before others flawed and sinful, there is no mortal intermediary that stands between you and Christ with whom you must first go to before you can go to Christ.

In the Church the bishops stands as a temporary proxy for Christ. Many people have not progressed in their life to the point where they actually know Christ yet and a bishop fills the role of having someone physical and present that we can go to with confidence who should treat us with compassion and understanding. A sinner who doesn't believe that Christ is available to them and who has never felt love, compassion, and understanding can benefit a lot from going to a bishop who is filled with those things. This bishop can direct them to Christ, helping that person along the way. However, it is a false tradition to believe that before a person can be forgiven by Christ they must go "through" the "bishop gate". These gates and switches that people create in their minds wherein you must traverse before you get to Christ is falsehood and ultimately damning. It keeps people in submission to a mortal. Mortals who want to be obeyed, respected, and listened to will also fight to retain these gates and switches where they stand and have power to either open or close those gates and switches.

-Finrock

You are incorrect and preaching your own philosophy which is not consistent with doctrine and how Christ's church operates.

See Sexual sin serious; Confessing to church leaders

Finrock belongs to the church of Finrock. He has obviously become a law unto himself. He picks and chooses which parts of the restored church to include in his own church. If something doesn't suit his fancy he rejects it as a "false tradition". Confessions to church authorities for serious transgressions has been a part of the restored church since the beginning of the restoration. This Is nothing new.

This doesn't represent me at all. Making something personal is just a sign of weakness in one's position and insecurity in one's beliefs.

-Finrock

[Finrock]

While we should not pretend to be good when we are not and we ought not to be afraid to stand before others flawed and sinful, there is no mortal intermediary that stands between you and Christ with whom you must first go to before you can go to Christ.

In the Church the bishops stands as a temporary proxy for Christ. Many people have not progressed in their life to the point where they actually know Christ yet and a bishop fills the role of having someone physical and present that we can go to with confidence who should treat us with compassion and understanding. A sinner who doesn't believe that Christ is available to them and who has never felt love, compassion, and understanding can benefit a lot from going to a bishop who is filled with those things. This bishop can direct them to Christ, helping that person along the way. However, it is a false tradition to believe that before a person can be forgiven by Christ they must go "through" the "bishop gate". These gates and switches that people create in their minds wherein you must traverse before you get to Christ is falsehood and ultimately damning. It keeps people in submission to a mortal. Mortals who want to be obeyed, respected, and listened to will also fight to retain these gates and switches where they stand and have power to either open or close those gates and switches.

-Finrock

You are incorrect and preaching your own philosophy which is not consistent with doctrine and how Christ's church operates.

See Sexual sin serious; Confessing to church leaders

I am not incorrect, I am not preaching my own philosophy, what I am preaching is consistent with doctrine in the scriptures but I agree it may not be how the Church operates. It is, however, how Christ operates.

-Finrock

Is that because you do not see Christ as the head of His Church?

No.

-Finrock

[AI2.0]

Hello everyone!

Thanks for helping me with something I'm struggling with.

8 months ago I had sex with a friend of mine. I have personally repented of it. I have taken it to the lord and have forsaken my actions. I will wait until marriage from now on.

My question is, is the repentance process incomplete until I confess to my bishop?

Thanks again.

Maybe in other churches (that is if they even care) but in this church, if you have sexual relations outside of marriage, you cannot consider your repentance process complete until you confess to your Bishop--there is no way around this and it doesn't matter if this is the only time--it is a sin which is specifically mentioned as needing confession to one's Bishop. And if you ever go receive a temple recommend you will have to confess this in order to be worthy. They will ask you if there is anything in your past that has not been taken care of and if you don't admit to this then you'll be lying and you will be entering the temple under a lie, which only makes the sin worse.

So, if you don't want to finish the repentance process, that is your choice, you can live with it and not completely forsake the sin, as far as the church is concerned, but if you want to go to the temple without this sin you're going to have to confess.

[Finrock]

The institution/organization that you belong to requires that you live by certain standards as a condition of membership. You promised to keep those standards when you joined. As a matter of integrity you should confess to the bishop when you've violated one of those standards that could put your membership in the institution/organization in jeopardy. True disciples of Jesus Christ have integrity and they don't fear what man can do. Their faith and their hope is in Christ. Those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit will be supported by Christ and His Father regardless of how they may be judged by mortals.

Forgiveness and your eternal standing with God is only between you and God. Your bishop is required to forgive you and if he is being true to the requirements of discipleship with Christ, he will forgive you no matter what. But, seeking your bishop's forgiveness and approval is not a requirement to being forgiven by Christ. Your bishop cannot sanctify you. He cannot stand in the way of your salvation. He does not stand there to allow or disallow you passage to Christ. Ideally and in a perfect world, the bishop stands there to point you to Christ because the bishop has already experienced the redeeming love of Christ and the cleansing power of His atonement. Ideally your bishop will know from personal experience what is truly needed in order for you to have a remission of your sins.

-Finrock

[AI2.0]

As I said before, SHOULD YOU talk to your Bishop? Yes.

Is this process dependent on your Bishop? No, do not be blinded into thinking your salvation depends on him. You must work out your salvation with God, your church leaders are here to help you, there are not here to save you because they cannot save you. There are countless stories in the scriptures and stories of Latter Day Saints who repented and were born of God, receiving a remission of sins without ever involving a single other person in he process.

I think you create confusion when you try to reply with excessive insight to a simple problem and that insight really is simply your perspective but it is not consistent with the Doctrine of the church.

Your first sentence answers the question that was asked and is absolutely correct. Your second paragraph muddies the waters and complicates the issue. A bishop does forgive in behalf of the church. So while Christ is the true source of final forgiveness he requires that we consider the roles of his servants in the process. Once one has complied by taking the proper issues to their Bishop, then they take it to Christ and seek his forgiveness.

While we should not pretend to be good when we are not and we ought not to be afraid to stand before others flawed and sinful, there is no mortal intermediary that stands between you and Christ with whom you must first go to before you can go to Christ.

In the Church the bishops stands as a temporary proxy for Christ. Many people have not progressed in their life to the point where they actually know Christ yet and a bishop fills the role of having someone physical and present that we can go to with confidence who should treat us with compassion and understanding. A sinner who doesn't believe that Christ is available to them and who has never felt love, compassion, and understanding can benefit a lot from going to a bishop who is filled with those things. This bishop can direct them to Christ, helping that person along the way. However, it is a false tradition to believe that before a person can be forgiven by Christ they must go "through" the "bishop gate". These gates and switches that people create in their minds wherein you must traverse before you get to Christ is falsehood and ultimately damning. It keeps people in submission to a mortal. Mortals who want to be obeyed, respected, and listened to will also fight to retain these gates and switches where they stand and have power to either open or close those gates and switches.

-Finrock

This is an incorrect view of why we confess to the Bishop serious sins.

For one thing, plenty of people who confess sins KNOW that Christ is available--that's not the reason they do it. They know that in certain cases, confessing to the church is part of the repentance process. Your view undermines the Lord's servants and the process which he has put in place.

[brlenox]

While we should not pretend to be good when we are not and we ought not to be afraid to stand before others flawed and sinful, there is no mortal intermediary that stands between you and Christ with whom you must first go to before you can go to Christ.

In the Church the bishops stands as a temporary proxy for Christ. Many people have not progressed in their life to the point where they actually know Christ yet and a bishop fills the role of having someone physical and present that we can go to with confidence who should treat us with compassion and understanding. A sinner who doesn't believe that Christ is available to them and who has never felt love, compassion, and understanding can benefit a lot from going to a bishop who is filled with those things. This bishop can direct them to Christ, helping that person along the way. However, it is a false tradition to believe that before a person can be forgiven by Christ they must go "through" the "bishop gate". These gates and switches that people create in their minds wherein you must traverse before you get to Christ is falsehood and ultimately damning. It keeps people in submission to a mortal. Mortals who want to be obeyed, respected, and listened to will also fight to retain these gates and switches where they stand and have power to either open or close those gates and switches.

-Finrock

You are incorrect and preaching your own philosophy which is not consistent with doctrine and how Christ's church operates.

See Sexual sin serious; Confessing to church leaders

Finrock belongs to the church of Finrock. He has obviously become a law unto himself. He picks and chooses which parts of the restored church to include in his own church. If something doesn't suit his fancy he rejects it as a "false tradition". Confessions to church authorities for serious transgressions has been a part of the restored church since the beginning of the restoration. This Is nothing new.

This doesn't represent me at all. Making something personal is just a sign of weakness in one's position and insecurity in one's beliefs.

-Finrock

Or it is simply a reasonable evaluation after observing a multitude of comments where clearly defined principles of the Gospel of Jesus Christ as defined by Christ to his servants, the Apostles and Prophets, are opposed by you. I don't see a bit of weakness in Mark's position. However, I see a world of weakness in many of your positions and beliefs.

[Arenera]

The institution/organization that you belong to requires that you live by certain standards as a condition of membership. You promised to keep those standards when you joined. As a matter of integrity you should confess to the bishop when you've violated one of those standards that could put your membership in the institution/organization in jeopardy. True disciples of Jesus Christ have integrity and they don't fear what man can do. Their faith and their hope is in Christ. Those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit will be supported by Christ and His Father regardless of how they may be judged by mortals.

Forgiveness and your eternal standing with God is only between you and God. Your bishop is required to forgive you and if he is being true to the requirements of discipleship with Christ, he will forgive you no matter what. But, seeking your bishop's forgiveness and approval is not a requirement to being forgiven by Christ. Your bishop cannot sanctify you. He cannot stand in the way of your salvation. He does not stand there to allow or disallow you passage to Christ. Ideally and in a perfect world, the bishop stands there to point you to Christ because the bishop has already experienced the redeeming love of Christ and the cleansing power of His atonement. Ideally your bishop will know from personal experience what is truly needed in order for you to have a remission of your sins.

-Finrock

27 And then I will confess unto them that I never knew them; and they shall depart into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

28 Therefore I say unto you, that he that will not hear my voice, the same shall ye not receive into my church, for him I will not receive at the last day.

29 Therefore I say unto you, Go; and whosoever transgresseth against me, him shall ye judge according to the sins which he has committed; and if he confess his sins before thee and me, and repenteth in the sincerity of his heart, him shall ye forgive, and I will forgive him also.

[Finrock]

You are incorrect and preaching your own philosophy which is not consistent with doctrine and how Christ's church operates.

See Sexual sin serious; Confessing to church leaders

Finrock belongs to the church of Finrock. He has obviously become a law unto himself. He picks and chooses which parts of the restored church to include in his own church. If something doesn't suit his fancy he rejects it as a "false tradition". Confessions to church authorities for serious transgressions has been a part of the restored church since the beginning of the restoration. This Is nothing new.

This doesn't represent me at all. Making something personal is just a sign of weakness in one's position and insecurity in one's beliefs.

-Finrock

Or it is simply a reasonable evaluation after observing a multitude of comments where clearly defined principles of the Gospel of Jesus Christ as defined by Christ to his servants, the Apostles and Prophets, are opposed by you. I don't see a bit of weakness in Mark's position. However, I see a world of weakness in many of your positions and beliefs.

Cool. If you have some personal issue with me, start a thread and get it all out or send me a private message. Otherwise, as a matter of integrity, in the course of a discussion or conversation you ought to just address the content of my posts.

-Finrock

[Finrock]

As I said before, SHOULD YOU talk to your Bishop? Yes.

Is this process dependent on your Bishop? No, do not be blinded into thinking your salvation depends on him. You must work out your salvation with God, your church leaders are here to help you, there are not here to save you because they cannot save you. There are countless stories in the scriptures and stories of Latter Day Saints who repented and were born of God, receiving a remission of sins without ever involving a single other person in he process.

I think you create confusion when you try to reply with excessive insight to a simple problem and that insight really is simply your perspective but it is not consistent with the Doctrine of the church.

Your first sentence answers the question that was asked and is absolutely correct. Your second paragraph muddies the waters and complicates the issue. A bishop does forgive in behalf of the church. So while Christ is the true source of final forgiveness he requires that we consider the roles of his servants in the process. Once one has complied by taking the proper issues to their Bishop, then they take it to Christ and seek his forgiveness.

While we should not pretend to be good when we are not and we ought not to be afraid to stand before others flawed and sinful, there is no mortal intermediary that stands between you and Christ with whom you must first go to before you can go to Christ.

In the Church the bishops stands as a temporary proxy for Christ. Many people have not progressed in their life to the point where they actually know Christ yet and a bishop fills the role of having someone physical and present that we can go to with confidence who should treat us with compassion and understanding. A sinner who doesn't believe that Christ is available to them and who has never felt love, compassion, and understanding can benefit a lot from going to a bishop who is filled with those things. This bishop can direct them to Christ, helping that person along the way. However, it is a false tradition to believe that before a person can be forgiven by Christ they must go "through" the "bishop gate". These gates and switches that people create in their minds wherein you must traverse before you get to Christ is falsehood and ultimately damning. It keeps people in submission to a mortal. Mortals who want to be obeyed, respected, and listened to will also fight to retain these gates and switches where they stand and have power to either open or close those gates and switches.

-Finrock

This is an incorrect view of why we confess to the Bishop serious sins.

For one thing, plenty of people who confess sins KNOW that Christ is available--that's not the reason they do it. They know that in certain cases, confessing to the church is part of the repentance process. Your view undermines the Lord's servants and the process which he has put in place.

You clearly believe this.

-Finrock

[Finrock]

The institution/organization that you belong to requires that you live by certain standards as a condition of membership. You promised to keep those standards when you joined. As a matter of integrity you should confess to the bishop when you've violated one of those standards that could put your membership in the institution/organization in jeopardy. True disciples of Jesus Christ have integrity and they don't fear what man can do. Their faith and their hope is in Christ. Those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit will be supported by Christ and His Father regardless of how they may be judged by mortals.

Forgiveness and your eternal standing with God is only between you and God. Your bishop is required to forgive you and if he is being true to the requirements of discipleship with Christ, he will forgive you no matter what. But, seeking your bishop's forgiveness and approval is not a requirement to being forgiven by Christ. Your bishop cannot sanctify you. He cannot stand in the way of your salvation. He does not stand there to allow or disallow you passage to Christ. Ideally and in a perfect world, the bishop stands there to point you to Christ because the bishop has already experienced the redeeming love of Christ and the cleansing power of His atonement. Ideally your bishop will know from personal experience what is truly needed in order for you to have a remission of your sins.

-Finrock

27 And then I will confess unto them that I never knew them; and they shall depart into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

28 Therefore I say unto you, that he that will not hear my voice, the same shall ye not receive into my church, for him I will not receive at the last day.

29 Therefore I say unto you, Go; and whosoever transgresseth against me, him shall ye judge according to the sins which he has committed; and if he confess his sins before thee and me, and repenteth in the sincerity of his heart, him shall ye forgive, and I will forgive him also.

22 For behold, this is my church; whosoever is baptized shall be baptized unto repentance. And whomsoever ye receive shall believe in my name; and him will I freely forgive.

23 For it is I that taketh upon me the sins of the world; for it is I that hath created them; and it is I that granteth unto him that believeth unto the end a place at my right hand.

24 For behold, in my name are they called; and if they know me they shall come forth, and shall have a place eternally at my right hand.

25 And it shall come to pass that when the second trump shall sound then shall they that never knew me come forth and shall stand before me.

26 And then shall they know that I am the Lord their God, that I am their Redeemer; but they would not be redeemed.

27 And then I will confess unto them that I never knew them; and they shall depart into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

28 Therefore I say unto you, that he that will not hear my voice, the same shall ye not receive into my church, for him I will not receive at the last day.

29 Therefore I say unto you, Go; and whosoever transgresseth against me, him shall ye judge according to the sins which he has committed; and if he confess his sins before thee and me, and repenteth in the sincerity of his heart, him shall ye forgive, and I will forgive him also.

30 Yea, and as often as my people repent will I forgive them their trespasses against me.

31 And ye shall also forgive one another your trespasses; for verily I say unto you, he that forgiveth not his neighbor’s trespasses when he says that he repents, the same hath brought himself under condemnation.

32 Now I say unto you, Go; and whosoever will not repent of his sins the same shall not be numbered among my people; and this shall be observed from this time forward.

-Finrock

[brlenox]

The institution/organization that you belong to requires that you live by certain standards as a condition of membership. -Finrock

And is it not the same institution that you belong too?

[brlenox]

Cool. If you have some personal issue with me, start a thread and get it all out or send me a private message. Otherwise, as a matter of integrity, in the course of a discussion or conversation you ought to just address the content of my posts.

-Finrock

It is your integrity that has always been the matter.

[Gage]

Finrock is correct that most sin can be forgiven through personal prayer. But some need assistance. Some sins are considered sins against the whole body of Christ. Some sins influence others and may cause others to sin.

Mosiah 26:6 It became expedient that those who committed sin that were in the church should be admonished by the church.

Members who had sinned were to be judged and held accountable. The Lord set conditions for those who were to be be received in membership. Some people need help through the repentance process and this is where the Bishop can help.

[MMbelieve]

It will bug you and you will question things, go to the bishop. It's required for this sin, we are taught that in young womens/young mens.

If you have been to the temple then it's even more pressing that you get in there. The longer you wait the harder it will be and the more foolish you will feel. If you are endowed then you may get a counsel but since you broke contact and stopped and have since recommited yourself, you won't be exed.

The devil is what is keeping you out of his office. To be truly repentant we must confess our sins. Some of these sins can be confessed to family, friends, spouse, God through prayer but some must also be confessed to the Bishop. Think of him as proxy for the Savior, if you can't tell the savior face to face, have you repented?

I had to do the same thing, only I waited 9 years. Don't recommend that! Really don't recommend it, makes you look bad especially after attending the temple and starting a family.

[Serragon]

Confession helps us to keep from deceiving ourselves which is the greatest stumbling block to true repentance.