Should I confess to the bishop?

[iWriteStuff]

Personally, I would never confess anything to my bishop that I didn't want spread around the ward. I realize this goes against what the church teaches, but until they come up with a better system than the current one I'll take my chances repenting on my own.

A few months back the Ward Executive Secretary, also our home teacher, sat in our family room telling us all about how a friend of ours was meeting with the bishop every week. The conversation got a lot shorter after that.

I should like to clarify that by saying the above, I don't mean to discourage the repentance process. Merely to remind those who ARE involved in the repentance process (bishops, exec secs, anyone in general) that when you don't exercise the proper discretion and confidentiality, you are doing damage to your calling and your reputation, not to mention unintentionally discouraging people from making appointments with the bishop.

[captainfearnot]

Would you lie to the Bishop in a temple recommend interview about a sin you committed that would exclude you from getting the recommend?

No. But why would I schedule a TR interview if I wasn't temple worthy?

[brlenox]

:ymhug:

[Gage]

Would you lie to the Bishop in a temple recommend interview about a sin you committed that would exclude you from getting the recommend?

No. But why would I schedule a TR interview if I wasn't temple worthy?

I guess was role playing like you held one, was wondering what you would do if you did sin but prayed for forgiveness and then when your interview came up would you tell him. I dont like telling the Bishop anything myself. But I dont like the members that I know that flaunt theirs but shouldnt have one. Some really have convinced themselves that if the Bishop signs off then thats all that matters. If the Bishop agrees they are worthy then they are worthy.

[captainfearnot]

I guess was role playing like you held one, was wondering what you would do if you did sin but prayed for forgiveness and then when your interview came up would you tell him. I don't like telling the Bishop anything myself. But I dont like the members that I know that flaunt theirs but shouldnt have one. Some really have convinced themselves that if the Bishop signs off then thats all that matters. If the Bishop agrees they are worthy then they are worthy.

Okay, I see. So let's say I'm a worthy TR holder and then I fornicate. Now I'm not TR worthy because I broke the law of chastity. I would postpone any TR interviews until after I felt like I had repented and been forgiven and could honestly answer that I live the law of chastity again.

Again, I realize the church teaches that confession to the bishop is necessary for true repentance but I guess I'm opting out of that part. Like I said, I'll take my chances. If God boots me out of the CK because I wasn't willing to play bishop roulette then I guess I failed that test and I'm not CK material.

[Sirocco]

I guess was role playing like you held one, was wondering what you would do if you did sin but prayed for forgiveness and then when your interview came up would you tell him. I don't like telling the Bishop anything myself. But I dont like the members that I know that flaunt theirs but shouldnt have one. Some really have convinced themselves that if the Bishop signs off then thats all that matters. If the Bishop agrees they are worthy then they are worthy.

Okay, I see. So let's say I'm a worthy TR holder and then I fornicate. Now I'm not TR worthy because I broke the law of chastity. I would postpone any TR interviews until after I felt like I had repented and been forgiven and could honestly answer that I live the law of chastity again.

Again, I realize the church teaches that confession to the bishop is necessary for true repentance but I guess I'm opting out of that part. Like I said, I'll take my chances. If God boots me out of the CK because I wasn't willing to play bishop roulette then I guess I failed that test and I'm not CK material.

Yeah I agree, telling a complete stranger about personal faults when said stranger will probably tell other people doesn't fill me with any confidence in said stranger :))

[Finrock]

Would you lie to the Bishop in a temple recommend interview about a sin you committed that would exclude you from getting the recommend?

No. But why would I schedule a TR interview if I wasn't temple worthy?

I guess was role playing like you held one, was wondering what you would do if you did sin but prayed for forgiveness and then when your interview came up would you tell him. I dont like telling the Bishop anything myself. But I dont like the members that I know that flaunt theirs but shouldnt have one. Some really have convinced themselves that if the Bishop signs off then thats all that matters. If the Bishop agrees they are worthy then they are worthy.

Just like you can be forgiven without your bishop, in the same way you aren't forgiven and worthy just because your bishop says so. These things are between the individual and the Lord. That is why I say that don't assume that speaking with the bishop is the same thing as getting to know Jesus Christ and understanding His love and mercy towards you. Until you've had an experience in your repentance process that involves Jesus and the Holy Ghost, your repentance is incomplete.

-Finrock

[bbsion]

Instructions for the church as a whole is to go to the Bishop. This is a guideline for the masses, not a doctrine. This can have profound effects on you and definitely help you to rid yourself of guilt. However, there are many Bishops I would never go to to confess anything due to a lack of trust. I have found there to be times that I can be rid of guilt by personal confession and repentance with God alone. Other times I have felt that going to a Bishop was more beneficial. Use your compass. Do you feel guilty? Do you trust the Bishop? You can never fool God. He knows if you genuinely repented, with or without a Bishop.

[freedomforall]

As I said before, SHOULD YOU talk to your Bishop? Yes.

Is this process dependent on your Bishop? No, do not be blinded into thinking your salvation depends on him. You must work out your salvation with God, your church leaders are here to help you, there are not here to save you because they cannot save you. There are countless stories in the scriptures and stories of Latter Day Saints who repented and were born of God, receiving a remission of sins without ever involving a single other person in he process.

I think you create confusion when you try to reply with excessive insight to a simple problem and that insight really is simply your perspective but it is not consistent with the Doctrine of the church.

Your first sentence answers the question that was asked and is absolutely correct. Your second paragraph muddies the waters and complicates the issue. A bishop does forgive in behalf of the church. So while Christ is the true source of final forgiveness he requires that we consider the roles of his servants in the process. Once one has complied by taking the proper issues to their Bishop, then they take it to Christ and seek his forgiveness.

While we should not pretend to be good when we are not and we ought not to be afraid to stand before others flawed and sinful, there is no mortal intermediary that stands between you and Christ with whom you must first go to before you can go to Christ.

In the Church the bishops stands as a temporary proxy for Christ. Many people have not progressed in their life to the point where they actually know Christ yet and a bishop fills the role of having someone physical and present that we can go to with confidence who should treat us with compassion and understanding. A sinner who doesn't believe that Christ is available to them and who has never felt love, compassion, and understanding can benefit a lot from going to a bishop who is filled with those things. This bishop can direct them to Christ, helping that person along the way. However, it is a false tradition to believe that before a person can be forgiven by Christ they must go "through" the "bishop gate". These gates and switches that people create in their minds wherein you must traverse before you get to Christ is falsehood and ultimately damning. It keeps people in submission to a mortal. Mortals who want to be obeyed, respected, and listened to will also fight to retain these gates and switches where they stand and have power to either open or close those gates and switches.

-Finrock

So are you saying the scriptures concerning going to clergy then Christ are false teachings? Your opinion of not going to a bishop as a mediator is not completely in line with the scriptures. Even new members have to be interviewed before baptism. Then other things have to be considered, ie, a priesthood holder, temple recommend holder, number of years as a member and level of knowledge.

Doctrine and Covenants 82:3
3 For of him unto whom much is given much is required; and he who sins against the greater light shall receive the greater condemnation.

We learn line upon line, here a little and there a little, but we are under greater condemnation for sin according to our growth. So saying we need no bishop at any time of our growth is not correct.

[freedomforall]

I guess was role playing like you held one, was wondering what you would do if you did sin but prayed for forgiveness and then when your interview came up would you tell him. I don't like telling the Bishop anything myself. But I dont like the members that I know that flaunt theirs but shouldnt have one. Some really have convinced themselves that if the Bishop signs off then thats all that matters. If the Bishop agrees they are worthy then they are worthy.

Okay, I see. So let's say I'm a worthy TR holder and then I fornicate. Now I'm not TR worthy because I broke the law of chastity. I would postpone any TR interviews until after I felt like I had repented and been forgiven and could honestly answer that I live the law of chastity again.

Again, I realize the church teaches that confession to the bishop is necessary for true repentance but I guess I'm opting out of that part. Like I said, I'll take my chances. If God boots me out of the CK because I wasn't willing to play bishop roulette then I guess I failed that test and I'm not CK material.

God forces no one into his presence. Scriptures are very clear on what it takes to live in his presence. Those who choose otherwise will not live with him, that's their choice. The Telestial kingdom will be full of people that did things their way. God doesn't boot people out, he simply doesn't let them in.

Likewise, some people do not get a college degree because they didn't want to put forth the required work the criteria called for.

[freedomforall]

Not all temple recommend holders are worthy, if they were, why is there locked clothing and affects lockers?
Why are there people going to the temple and taking pictures and videos incognito?
Why do some people make fun of garments?
Why do some people talk way too loud in the celestial room?
Why do some people switch personalities, one for the temple, another for the streets?
Many people lie about worthiness, but they're only fooling themselves. Bishops and Stake Presidents can discern those not worthy but they allow the guilty to condemn themselves.

[Rensai]

Its an interesting topic. I was thinking about it as I read over this thread and I couldn't think of a single scripture that says you should go confess to a priest/bishop so I did a search on lds.org and came up with nothing there either.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/confession?lang=eng

I did find scriptures about confessing to God and anyone you've wronged with your sins though.

88 And if thy brother or sister offend thee, thou shalt take him or her between him or her and thee alone; and if he or she confess thou shalt be reconciled.

Anyone got any scriptures that plainly state confession requires more than God and any person who's been wronged? Where did this idea originate Perhaps confessing to the bishop is just another tradition from the past. Honestly, it seems to unreliable to have come from God, some bishops can give some really good advice and help people. I think that happens a lot, but I also know, they frequently make the situation worse with bad advice. It doesn't make a lot of sense then that God would require us to put ourselves in a situation where it may or may not actually be of any help and/or may make things worse.

[Arenera]

Its an interesting topic. I was thinking about it as I read over this thread and I couldn't think of a single scripture that says you should go confess to a priest/bishop so I did a search on lds.org and came up with nothing there either.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/confession?lang=eng

I did find scriptures about confessing to God and anyone you've wronged with your sins though.

88 And if thy brother or sister offend thee, thou shalt take him or her between him or her and thee alone; and if he or she confess thou shalt be reconciled.

Anyone got any scriptures that plainly state confession requires more than God and any person who's been wronged? Where did this idea originate Perhaps confessing to the bishop is just another tradition from the past. Honestly, it seems to unreliable to have come from God, some bishops can give some really good advice and help people. I think that happens a lot, but I also know, they frequently make the situation worse with bad advice. It doesn't make a lot of sense then that God would require us to put ourselves in a situation where it may or may not actually be of any help and/or may make things worse.

You sure you read all the thread posts?

Of course!

Sexual sin is a serious sin

Alma 39
5 Know ye not, my son, that these things are an abomination in the sight of the Lord; yea, most abominable above all sins save it be the shedding of innocent bblood or denying the Holy Ghost?

Mosiah 26 explains confessing in the church and receiving forgiveness

29 Therefore I say unto you, Go; and whosoever transgresseth against me, him shall ye judge according to the sins which he has committed; and if he cconfess his sins before thee and me, and repenteth in the sincerity of his heart, him shall ye forgive, and I will forgive him also.

30 Yea, and as often as my people repent will I forgive them their trespasses against me.

You need to confess to your bishop, if you don't, you haven't followed Mosiah 26:29.

Be clean again. You don't want to go to the temple with this kind of sin without repenting of it.

[AI2.0]

No it hasn't. The topic is confessing to the bishop. Please limit your comments to the content and the substance of my posts. It is a violation of the forum rules to attack a person personally:

Firnrock; The topic was actually about whether or not a person needed to confess fornication to their Bishop. The answer is an absolute 'yes', this was not a general topic about repentance and confession. Because you treated it as a general topic, you got some pushback from other forum members.

Anyone got any scriptures that plainly state confession requires more than God and any person who's been wronged? Where did this idea originate Perhaps confessing to the bishop is just another tradition from the past. Honestly, it seems to unreliable to have come from God, some bishops can give some really good advice and help people. I think that happens a lot, but I also know, they frequently make the situation worse with bad advice. It doesn't make a lot of sense then that God would require us to put ourselves in a situation where it may or may not actually be of any help and/or may make things worse.

Rensai, You think this is 'tradition'? It's not, it's part of the repentance process for serious sins, such as fornication, which is what this thread was referencing. Just a couple of scriptures;

D&C 58:42 Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more.

43 By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them.

Here is an example of the need for confession;

D7C 61:11 And ye ought to say in your hearts—let God judge between me and thee, and reward thee according to thy deeds.
12 And him that repenteth not of his sins, and confesseth them not, ye shall bring before the church, and do with him as the scripture saith unto you, either by commandment or by revelation.
13 And this ye shall do that God may be glorified—not because ye forgive not, having not compassion, but that ye may be justified in the eyes of the law, that ye may not offend him who is your lawgiver—
14 Verily I say, for this cause ye shall do these things.

D&C 58:60 Let that which has been bestowed upon Ziba Peterson be taken from him; and let him stand as a member in the church, and labor with his own hands, with the brethren, until he is sufficiently chastened for all his sins; for he confesseth them not, and he thinketh to hide them.

The way the Lord sees it---Confession is proof of Repentance. Not confessing shows a person is trying to hide their sins. The member asked a question about whether or not he needed to confess his fornication to his Bishop. I don't see how this is even a discussion, I thought members of the church understood this. I really think if members were more familiar with our scriptures, we wouldn't have arguments on these topics. If anyone doesn't think confession is needed, maybe they should do some reading and look up 'confession' and 'repentance' and find the answers.

[markharr]

No it hasn't. The topic is confessing to the bishop. Please limit your comments to the content and the substance of my posts. It is a violation of the forum rules to attack a person personally:

Firnrock; The topic was actually about whether or not a person needed to confess fornication to their Bishop. The answer is an absolute 'yes', this was not a general topic about repentance and confession. Because you treated it as a general topic, you got some pushback from other forum members.

Anyone got any scriptures that plainly state confession requires more than God and any person who's been wronged? Where did this idea originate Perhaps confessing to the bishop is just another tradition from the past. Honestly, it seems to unreliable to have come from God, some bishops can give some really good advice and help people. I think that happens a lot, but I also know, they frequently make the situation worse with bad advice. It doesn't make a lot of sense then that God would require us to put ourselves in a situation where it may or may not actually be of any help and/or may make things worse.

Rensai, You think this is 'tradition'? It's not, it's part of the repentance process for serious sins, such as fornication, which is what this thread was referencing. Just a couple of scriptures;

D&C 58:42 Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more.

43 By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them.

Here is an example of the need for confession;

D7C 61:11 And ye ought to say in your hearts—let God judge between me and thee, and reward thee according to thy deeds.
12 And him that repenteth not of his sins, and confesseth them not, ye shall bring before the church, and do with him as the scripture saith unto you, either by commandment or by revelation.
13 And this ye shall do that God may be glorified—not because ye forgive not, having not compassion, but that ye may be justified in the eyes of the law, that ye may not offend him who is your lawgiver—
14 Verily I say, for this cause ye shall do these things.

D&C 58:60 Let that which has been bestowed upon Ziba Peterson be taken from him; and let him stand as a member in the church, and labor with his own hands, with the brethren, until he is sufficiently chastened for all his sins; for he confesseth them not, and he thinketh to hide them.

The way the Lord sees it---Confession is proof of Repentance. Not confessing shows a person is trying to hide their sins. The member asked a question about whether or not he needed to confess his fornication to his Bishop. I don't see how this is even a discussion, I thought members of the church understood this. I really think if members were more familiar with our scriptures, we wouldn't have arguments on these topics. If anyone doesn't think confession is needed, maybe they should do some reading and look up 'confession' and 'repentance' and find the answers.

That doesn't say confess them to the Bishop. It says confess them. You could confess them to the person you have wronged, or to the lord directly.

[Rensai]

Its an interesting topic. I was thinking about it as I read over this thread and I couldn't think of a single scripture that says you should go confess to a priest/bishop so I did a search on lds.org and came up with nothing there either.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/confession?lang=eng

I did find scriptures about confessing to God and anyone you've wronged with your sins though.

88 And if thy brother or sister offend thee, thou shalt take him or her between him or her and thee alone; and if he or she confess thou shalt be reconciled.

Anyone got any scriptures that plainly state confession requires more than God and any person who's been wronged? Where did this idea originate Perhaps confessing to the bishop is just another tradition from the past. Honestly, it seems to unreliable to have come from God, some bishops can give some really good advice and help people. I think that happens a lot, but I also know, they frequently make the situation worse with bad advice. It doesn't make a lot of sense then that God would require us to put ourselves in a situation where it may or may not actually be of any help and/or may make things worse.

You sure you read all the thread posts?

Of course!

Sexual sin is a serious sin

Alma 39
5 Know ye not, my son, that these things are an abomination in the sight of the Lord; yea, most abominable above all sins save it be the shedding of innocent bblood or denying the Holy Ghost?

Mosiah 26 explains confessing in the church and receiving forgiveness

29 Therefore I say unto you, Go; and whosoever transgresseth against me, him shall ye judge according to the sins which he has committed; and if he cconfess his sins before thee and me, and repenteth in the sincerity of his heart, him shall ye forgive, and I will forgive him also.

30 Yea, and as often as my people repent will I forgive them their trespasses against me.

You need to confess to your bishop, if you don't, you haven't followed Mosiah 26:29.

Be clean again. You don't want to go to the temple with this kind of sin without repenting of it.

Thanks for the response, I did see those and I don't think that makes the case for confessing to a bishop, but I guess you could say it supports the idea somewhat. Alma is dealing with a major apostasy and gets special instructions from the lord, its clear that up until that point, he was not in the habit of judging or accepting confessions from anyone. So that was not standard procedure and clearly people were able to repent before that time without confessing anything to Alma. Also, I think we all agree, Alma is far different from a random Bishop. God spoke to, and covenanted with Alma, making his calling and election sure.

20 Thou art my servant; and I covenant with thee that thou shalt have eternal life; and thou shalt serve me and go forth in my name, and shalt gather together my sheep.

There are more differences as well. I think if confession required a 3rd party, bishop or priest, it would be mentioned in a lot more places in scripture and it would be clear. Confession is incredibly important, yet the scriptures only make 2 requirements clear. You have to pray and confess to God, and you have to do your best to make it right if you've wronged anyone, and that's it as far as I can see.

[AI2.0]

I guess was role playing like you held one, was wondering what you would do if you did sin but prayed for forgiveness and then when your interview came up would you tell him. I don't like telling the Bishop anything myself. But I dont like the members that I know that flaunt theirs but shouldnt have one. Some really have convinced themselves that if the Bishop signs off then thats all that matters. If the Bishop agrees they are worthy then they are worthy.

Okay, I see. So let's say I'm a worthy TR holder and then I fornicate. Now I'm not TR worthy because I broke the law of chastity. I would postpone any TR interviews until after I felt like I had repented and been forgiven and could honestly answer that I live the law of chastity again.

Again, I realize the church teaches that confession to the bishop is necessary for true repentance but I guess I'm opting out of that part. Like I said, I'll take my chances. If God boots me out of the CK because I wasn't willing to play bishop roulette then I guess I failed that test and I'm not CK material.

There are people like you who think this is okay, and they blame it on the Bishop rather than admit they are too full of pride to confess. Do you know what the Lord said about people who take the sacrament when they aren't not worthy?
3 Nephi 18:29
"For whoso eateth and drinketh my flesh and blood unworthily eateth and drinketh damnation to his soul; therefore if ye know that a man is unworthy to eat and drink of my flesh and blood ye shall forbid him."

So, if it's damnation to one's soul to take the sacrament when they are not worthy, do you think it's any less bad for a person to enter the temple who is not worthy?

But, you only hurt yourself. You do it to the damnation of your own soul.

[Rensai]

No it hasn't. The topic is confessing to the bishop. Please limit your comments to the content and the substance of my posts. It is a violation of the forum rules to attack a person personally:

Firnrock; The topic was actually about whether or not a person needed to confess fornication to their Bishop. The answer is an absolute 'yes', this was not a general topic about repentance and confession. Because you treated it as a general topic, you got some pushback from other forum members.

Anyone got any scriptures that plainly state confession requires more than God and any person who's been wronged? Where did this idea originate Perhaps confessing to the bishop is just another tradition from the past. Honestly, it seems to unreliable to have come from God, some bishops can give some really good advice and help people. I think that happens a lot, but I also know, they frequently make the situation worse with bad advice. It doesn't make a lot of sense then that God would require us to put ourselves in a situation where it may or may not actually be of any help and/or may make things worse.

Rensai, You think this is 'tradition'? It's not, it's part of the repentance process for serious sins, such as fornication, which is what this thread was referencing. Just a couple of scriptures;

D&C 58:42 Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more.

43 By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them.

Here is an example of the need for confession;

D7C 61:11 And ye ought to say in your hearts—let God judge between me and thee, and reward thee according to thy deeds.
12 And him that repenteth not of his sins, and confesseth them not, ye shall bring before the church, and do with him as the scripture saith unto you, either by commandment or by revelation.
13 And this ye shall do that God may be glorified—not because ye forgive not, having not compassion, but that ye may be justified in the eyes of the law, that ye may not offend him who is your lawgiver—
14 Verily I say, for this cause ye shall do these things.

D&C 58:60 Let that which has been bestowed upon Ziba Peterson be taken from him; and let him stand as a member in the church, and labor with his own hands, with the brethren, until he is sufficiently chastened for all his sins; for he confesseth them not, and he thinketh to hide them.

The way the Lord sees it---Confession is proof of Repentance. Not confessing shows a person is trying to hide their sins. The member asked a question about whether or not he needed to confess his fornication to his Bishop. I don't see how this is even a discussion, I thought members of the church understood this. I really think if members were more familiar with our scriptures, we wouldn't have arguments on these topics. If anyone doesn't think confession is needed, maybe they should do some reading and look up 'confession' and 'repentance' and find the answers.

Looking up the scriptures on confession is exactly what I did, I think I made that clear. Why don't you try that too? See if you can find anything that shows a need to confess to a bishop. The scriptures you are referencing do not make that clear or support what you are saying at all as far as I can see. They support the idea that we must confess yes, but it should be to anyone we've wronged as well as the Lord. Anyway, I'm not looking to argue it. Repentance is incredibly important, if it were required to confess to a bishop or priest, it would be in the scriptures and it would be plainly understood. its too important a topic not to be clear on. I already went over the topical guide list of scriptures and I don't see anything saying you must confess to a bishop. If there are scriptures that are not in that list from lds.org, that do say that, then I would like to see those, but anything not in scripture doesn't interest me.

[Arenera]

No it hasn't. The topic is confessing to the bishop. Please limit your comments to the content and the substance of my posts. It is a violation of the forum rules to attack a person personally:

Firnrock; The topic was actually about whether or not a person needed to confess fornication to their Bishop. The answer is an absolute 'yes', this was not a general topic about repentance and confession. Because you treated it as a general topic, you got some pushback from other forum members.

Anyone got any scriptures that plainly state confession requires more than God and any person who's been wronged? Where did this idea originate Perhaps confessing to the bishop is just another tradition from the past. Honestly, it seems to unreliable to have come from God, some bishops can give some really good advice and help people. I think that happens a lot, but I also know, they frequently make the situation worse with bad advice. It doesn't make a lot of sense then that God would require us to put ourselves in a situation where it may or may not actually be of any help and/or may make things worse.

Rensai, You think this is 'tradition'? It's not, it's part of the repentance process for serious sins, such as fornication, which is what this thread was referencing. Just a couple of scriptures;

D&C 58:42 Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more.

43 By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them.

Here is an example of the need for confession;

D7C 61:11 And ye ought to say in your hearts—let God judge between me and thee, and reward thee according to thy deeds.
12 And him that repenteth not of his sins, and confesseth them not, ye shall bring before the church, and do with him as the scripture saith unto you, either by commandment or by revelation.
13 And this ye shall do that God may be glorified—not because ye forgive not, having not compassion, but that ye may be justified in the eyes of the law, that ye may not offend him who is your lawgiver—
14 Verily I say, for this cause ye shall do these things.

D&C 58:60 Let that which has been bestowed upon Ziba Peterson be taken from him; and let him stand as a member in the church, and labor with his own hands, with the brethren, until he is sufficiently chastened for all his sins; for he confesseth them not, and he thinketh to hide them.

The way the Lord sees it---Confession is proof of Repentance. Not confessing shows a person is trying to hide their sins. The member asked a question about whether or not he needed to confess his fornication to his Bishop. I don't see how this is even a discussion, I thought members of the church understood this. I really think if members were more familiar with our scriptures, we wouldn't have arguments on these topics. If anyone doesn't think confession is needed, maybe they should do some reading and look up 'confession' and 'repentance' and find the answers.

Looking up the scriptures on confession is exactly what I did, I think I made that clear. Why don't you try that too? See if you can find anything that shows a need to confess to a bishop. The scriptures you are referencing do not make that clear or support what you are saying at all as far as I can see. They support the idea that we must confess yes, but it should be to anyone we've wronged as well as the Lord. Anyway, I'm not looking to argue it. Repentance is incredibly important, if it were required to confess to a bishop or priest, it would be in the scriptures and it would be plainly understood. its too important a topic not to be clear on. I already went over the topical guide list of scriptures and I don't see anything saying you must confess to a bishop. If there are scriptures that are not in that list from lds.org, that do say that, then I would like to see those, but anything not in scripture doesn't interest me.

So you went out and fornicated. Later you meet with your Bishop who asks you if you have been moral. You respond yes (because you repented to Christ). The bishop asks if you are ready to send in your mission papers. "Let's do it"! You say.

You receive your mission call and interview with the bishop again for a temple recommend. "Is there anything you haven't repented of?" No you respond. "Do you live the law of chastity?" Yes you respond.

You go to the temple. You give a talk. You go on your mission. While on your mission you struggle with the Spirit. What's wrong you companion asks"? Did you repent before you came out?" Well, I thought so. "You should talk to the mission president."

So you confess to your mission president. The mission president says, "Sorry Elder, you are going to have to go home."

Well, now everything is far worse.

[freedomforall]

No it hasn't. The topic is confessing to the bishop. Please limit your comments to the content and the substance of my posts. It is a violation of the forum rules to attack a person personally:

Firnrock; The topic was actually about whether or not a person needed to confess fornication to their Bishop. The answer is an absolute 'yes', this was not a general topic about repentance and confession. Because you treated it as a general topic, you got some pushback from other forum members.

Anyone got any scriptures that plainly state confession requires more than God and any person who's been wronged? Where did this idea originate Perhaps confessing to the bishop is just another tradition from the past. Honestly, it seems to unreliable to have come from God, some bishops can give some really good advice and help people. I think that happens a lot, but I also know, they frequently make the situation worse with bad advice. It doesn't make a lot of sense then that God would require us to put ourselves in a situation where it may or may not actually be of any help and/or may make things worse.

Rensai, You think this is 'tradition'? It's not, it's part of the repentance process for serious sins, such as fornication, which is what this thread was referencing. Just a couple of scriptures;

D&C 58:42 Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more.

43 By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them.

Here is an example of the need for confession;

D7C 61:11 And ye ought to say in your hearts—let God judge between me and thee, and reward thee according to thy deeds.
12 And him that repenteth not of his sins, and confesseth them not, ye shall bring before the church, and do with him as the scripture saith unto you, either by commandment or by revelation.
13 And this ye shall do that God may be glorified—not because ye forgive not, having not compassion, but that ye may be justified in the eyes of the law, that ye may not offend him who is your lawgiver—
14 Verily I say, for this cause ye shall do these things.

D&C 58:60 Let that which has been bestowed upon Ziba Peterson be taken from him; and let him stand as a member in the church, and labor with his own hands, with the brethren, until he is sufficiently chastened for all his sins; for he confesseth them not, and he thinketh to hide them.

The way the Lord sees it---Confession is proof of Repentance. Not confessing shows a person is trying to hide their sins. The member asked a question about whether or not he needed to confess his fornication to his Bishop. I don't see how this is even a discussion, I thought members of the church understood this. I really think if members were more familiar with our scriptures, we wouldn't have arguments on these topics. If anyone doesn't think confession is needed, maybe they should do some reading and look up 'confession' and 'repentance' and find the answers.

That doesn't say confess them to the Bishop. It says confess them. You could confess them to the person you have wronged, or to the lord directly.

Can a new member be baptized without confessing sins to clergy for the purpose of a worthiness test?

BD Confession

The scriptures use confession in at least two ways. One is to confess that Jesus is the Christ; that is, a confession or profession of faith; see, for example, Matt. 10:32; 16:16; John 6:68–69; 12:42; Rom. 10:9; Philip. 2:11; 1 Tim. 6:12; Heb. 4:14; 1 Jn. 4:2.

A second usage of confession is confession of sin. It is a duty of all persons to confess all their sins to the Lord and, when necessary, to the person or persons sinned against. Sins against the public must be publicly confessed (D&C 42:88–93).

Other items may be confessed to a church official (bishop), or in many cases to the Lord alone. Confession to a church official (in most cases the bishop) is necessary whenever one’s transgression is of a nature for which the Church might impose loss of membership or other disciplinary action. The bishop cannot and does not forgive sin, but he may judge the matter and waive the penalty that the Church might otherwise impose against the person. The repentant sinner must still make confession and obtain forgiveness of the Lord.

Confession is a condition of forgiveness. The Lord has said that true repentance is always accompanied by confession (D&C 58:43; 64:7). Confession was clearly a requirement of forgiveness under the law of Moses (Lev. 5:5; 26:40; Num. 5:7; Josh. 7:19; Ezra 10:11). John the Baptist baptized those who repented and confessed their sins (Matt. 3:5–6).

[captainfearnot]

There are people like you who think this is okay, and they blame it on the Bishop rather than admit they are too full of pride to confess. Do you know what the Lord said about people who take the sacrament when they aren't not worthy?
3 Nephi 18:29
"For whoso eateth and drinketh my flesh and blood unworthily eateth and drinketh damnation to his soul; therefore if ye know that a man is unworthy to eat and drink of my flesh and blood ye shall forbid him."

So, if it's damnation to one's soul to take the sacrament when they are not worthy, do you think it's any less bad for a person to enter the temple who is not worthy?

But, you only hurt yourself. You do it to the damnation of your own soul.

Yikes, that's judgy.

I'm not blaming bishops, they're only human like me. I blame the church, because it's a bad system.

I don't think it's pride that keeps me from confessing. I had no problem confessing to bishops for twenty years. I don't do it anymore because I think it's stupid to disclose private information when there is no assurance of confidentiality. The reason I think it's stupid is because every time I did that and got burned by it, I felt stupid. Like it was my own fault and I should have known better. Eventually I learned my lesson.

To me, it's like how we know we should be honest in our dealings with our fellow man. But does that mean you should admit fault after a car accident? Of course not. Nobody should do that. That's like Drivers Ed 101. There's striving for righteousness and then there's just being naive.

[kittycat51]

My father is a temple sealer. On one particular occasion as he was meeting with a bride and groom in the Celestial room before their wedding ceremony, he could tell something wasn't right. He knew what it was. He asked the couple if there was anything they would like to talk about, and he sort of turned things into the right direction as he was prompted by the Spirit concerning the law of chastity. The young couple confessed that they had indeed broken the law of chastity. Sadly to say the temple ceremony was cancelled.

Can you imagine what the parents went through when my father had to pull them out of the sealing room and fill them in that there would be no wedding there on that day? What about the guests who showed up also? (They were not told why the wedding was cancelled.) You do NOT want it to go that far.

[freedomforall]

Hey, people. Why is it such a big issue worrying about whether or not a bishop keeps his mouth closed or not?

Truth is, the sins of the unrepentant will be shouted from the housetops anyway.

Doctrine and Covenants 1:3
3 And the rebellious shall be pierced with much sorrow; for their iniquities shall be spoken upon the housetops, and their secret acts shall be revealed.

Luke 12:3
3 Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

Prov. 28:13
13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Luke 8:17
17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

Morm. 5:8
8 And now behold, I, Mormon, do not desire to harrow up the souls of men in casting before them such an awful scene of blood and carnage as was laid before mine eyes; but I, knowing that these things must surely be made known, and that all things which are hid must be revealed upon the house-tops—

If the confidence of a bishop is broken by him then the greater sin will be on him. But isn't it better to confess to a bishop than to have sins shouted on housetops for all to hear ?

[Sirocco]

Hey, people. Why is it such a big issue worrying about whether or not a bishop keeps his mouth closed or not?

Truth is, the sins of the unrepentant will be shouted from the housetops anyway.

Doctrine and Covenants 1:3
3 And the rebellious shall be pierced with much sorrow; for their iniquities shall be spoken upon the housetops, and their secret acts shall be revealed.

Luke 12:3
3 Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

Prov. 28:13
13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Luke 8:17
17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

Morm. 5:8
8 And now behold, I, Mormon, do not desire to harrow up the souls of men in casting before them such an awful scene of blood and carnage as was laid before mine eyes; but I, knowing that these things must surely be made known, and that all things which are hid must be revealed upon the house-tops—

If the confidence of a bishop is broken by him then the greater sin will be on him. But isn't it better to confess to a bishop than to have sins shouted on housetops for all to hear ?

Because I am a private person and don't want people I dislike knowing things about me, good or bad.

[inho]

Hello everyone!

Thanks for helping me with something I'm struggling with.

8 months ago I had sex with a friend of mine. I have personally repented of it. I have taken it to the lord and have forsaken my actions. I will wait until marriage from now on.

My question is, is the repentance process incomplete until I confess to my bishop?

Thanks again.

HomeStar182,
Did anything that you read in this thread make any difference for you?
Also, would you like to tell us why you decided to post your question on this forum? Have you been lurking here before?