Should I confess to the bishop?

[Finrock]

I think the part about our sins affecting the entire faith community is a very valid point. Also, the idea that the bishop, being the "father" of the ward, can bear witness to the Church that we have confessed our sins, is a valid point. This harkens back to the charge given to those who are to be baptized that they must witness before the Church that they have truly repented and have taken upon them the Spirit of Christ. The bishop can stand as a witness to the Church that this is so. That makes sense to me.

-Finrock

[Gage]

I think the part about our sins affecting the entire faith community is a very valid point. Also, the idea that the bishop, being the "father" of the ward, can bear witness to the Church that we have confessed our sins. This harkens back to the charge given to those who are to be baptized that they must witness before the Church that they have truly repented and have taken upon them the Spirit of Christ. The bishop can stand as a witness to the Church that this is so. That makes sense to me.

-Finrock

Well that brings another question when dealing with community and/or sins that may affect others, if you know someone is sinning one of the more serious sins, do you tell on them?

[brlenox]

The way I see it is that confessing to a Bishop is sort of a lesser law. We are in the lone and dreary world and we are all on different levels of understanding. I have personally seen the peace that can come from confessing to a Bishop. I have also see the disaster that comes from confessing to an untrustworthy Bishop. The system is not perfect and is not applicable to everyone. It's set in place to help guide the masses in the telestial vehicle that is the Church. There are individuals that can find complete repentance without going to a Bishop. The reason we are counseled to go to the Bishop is because most people need the extra help. The act of confessing to a Bishop is an easy way to bring humility, which is essential when repenting. This is because you are talking with another imperfect person who (if they are sincere and trustworthy) can bring you peace through the process of a broken heart and contrite spirit. This is one of the best systems for the masses and I say that nearly everyone should observe at some point in their life. However, it (confessing to a Bishop) is not required to fully repent. Confessing to God most certainly is required. Again, just remember you cannot fool God. You cannot feign repentance and expect God to let you in.

Read Mosiah 26, it certainly is required to go to your bishop.

I quoted a more complete part of Mosiah 26 which provides more context and information and it does not say anything about how it is required to go to your bishop. There is no mention of bishop, no command, nothing like what you are saying. It does say that Jesus is the redeemer. It does say that Jesus forgives. It says that if a person confesses and they repent, they should be forgiven, no questions asks. Jesus said He is quick to forgive and we too should be quick to forgive. It provides counsel to Alma for the situation he is dealing with. Mosiah 26 doesn't support your idea that it certainly is required to go to your bishop.

-Finrock

The real tragedy of responses like these are they clearly can be reduced to simplest terms of I do not believe in living prophets. Historically, there was no mention of the position of "bishop" until New Testament times. Would we then expect Alma to speak to the term "Bishop"? No we would not. However, if we were seeking truth we might observe common elements that we could extrapolate a common thread to for a more probable and more accurate interpretation.

Let's work backwards from the statements above. First the observation that Alma is only receiving counsel for the situation he is dealing with. If this was a True or False quiz on Mosiah 26 we would have to answer FALSE. If the next question was to provide the verse or verses that clarify we could look all day long for a verse that implies this is a limited use bit of counsel. However, to validate that this was an ongoing condition of church governance we would look no further than verse 33. Please consider:

Mosiah 26:33
33 And it came to pass when Alma had heard these words he wrote them down that he might have them, and that he might judge the people of that church according to the commandments of God.

This is a very important statement. Alma is going to preserve this revelation that he has received, "that he might judge the people of that church according to the commandments of God." Very important and germane to the question of the OP is that Alma is stating that when the
commandments of God are breeched he now understands the method to judge those who sin in the fashion of breaching God's commandments. Clearly this is not for the moment but it is intended to become the ongoing process in governing the church.

The next observation that we consider is this statement from Mr. Finrocks statement: "It says that if a person confesses and they repent, they should be forgiven, no questions asks." Is that what it says? Or is there a bit of over simplification of the text. For clarity let's look observe this verse:

Mosiah 26:29

29 Therefore I say unto you, Go; and whosoever transgresseth against me, him shall ye judge according to the sins which he has committed; and if he confess his sins before thee and me, and repenteth in the sincerity of his heart, him shall ye forgive, and I will forgive him also.

Very clear is the fact that the text unequivocally declares that Alma is to judge them and take confession from them. That's what he does as the designated leader of the church in his area.

Now it is verse 30 that Mr. Finrock wants to elevate to a singular status as if somehow it negates what is said in verse 29

Mosiah 26:
30 Yea, and as often as my people repent will I forgive them their trespasses against me.

However, carving out preferred private interpretations is a poor practice especially in this case where Christ is simply continuing the development of the instruction that he has given in verse 29. There is a big "IF" in verse 29 places an awful lot of focus on what follows - IF he confesses before thee AND me - It is not "OR" me but "and" me. Very, very clear here that this is an element of what is defined as possessing a sincerity of heart. If one truly wishes to repent then he will confess his sins to the leader of this congregation, who is Alma, and he will confess them to Christ. However, the point is that it is a manifestation of "sincerity" to follow these instructions that the Lord provides. Failing to confess to Alma in this case could be construed as not making a sincere effort of repentance. Elsewise how can Alma forgive the sinner if the sinner does not inform the head of the congregation - Alma. Anything short of a sincere repentance will not garner Alma's forgiveness in behalf of the church, and more importantly a less than sincere repentance will not garner Christ's forgiveness either. So if you are sincere, a measure of that sincerity is manifests in confession to the appropriate leader of the congregation.

So verse 30 is the final word on the matter at this time and Christ is wrapping up what he started in verse 29 and not feeling the need to repeat it all again because it does seem very clear in verse 29. In 29 he defines what meets the definition of a sincere repentance and then in 30 he is saying that when the conditions of what I just said in verse 29 are met it will illustrate that the individual truly desires to repent and when they do he will forgive them.

Now these verses are not all that is said on this matter. In fact living apostles and living prophets of this last dispensation have counseled the saints in a multitude of ways concerning the proper manner of repentance. Unlike Alma's day, we are not dealing with just one congregation but each congregation does have a leader who occupies the exact same slot and responsibilities as Alma, the leader of his congregation. Bishops and Branch Presidents serve in the same capacity as Alma and this instruction here is perfectly applicable to the modern church organization.

Now really the question of the OP is actually a bit broader than it first appears. It really is a referendum on whether you believe in living apostles and prophets who have counseled extensively in these matters. If you do not believe that Thomas S. Monson and all those who proceeded him are entrusted of God to counsel the saints on matters of repentance then by all means follow Mr. Finrocks advice - it will not matter anyway because then you can pick and choose whatever appeals to you and it will only reinforce your rejection of the prophets. However, if you believe in Jesus Christ and that this is The Church of Jesus Christ then you will manifest your faith that he has called and selected righteous men to lead his people and you will want to be found amongst those who have repented sincerely of your sins that you too may reap the greatest blessing that man can ever hope for. A sincere repentance is a small price to pay for blessings unparalleled. It is difficult, but so was Christ's sacrifice. In this way you acknowledge that you respect how hard it was for Him by obeying the hard things he asks of you. God's speed.

[Z2100]

5 Words:

GO SEE THE BISHOP NOW

[brlenox]

The way I see it is that confessing to a Bishop is sort of a lesser law. We are in the lone and dreary world and we are all on different levels of understanding. I have personally seen the peace that can come from confessing to a Bishop. I have also see the disaster that comes from confessing to an untrustworthy Bishop. The system is not perfect and is not applicable to everyone. It's set in place to help guide the masses in the telestial vehicle that is the Church. There are individuals that can find complete repentance without going to a Bishop. The reason we are counseled to go to the Bishop is because most people need the extra help. The act of confessing to a Bishop is an easy way to bring humility, which is essential when repenting. This is because you are talking with another imperfect person who (if they are sincere and trustworthy) can bring you peace through the process of a broken heart and contrite spirit. This is one of the best systems for the masses and I say that nearly everyone should observe at some point in their life. However, it (confessing to a Bishop) is not required to fully repent. Confessing to God most certainly is required. Again, just remember you cannot fool God. You cannot feign repentance and expect God to let you in.

Beyond doubt you fail to understand this principle. Having taken many, many confessions in this capacity discussed, and thus being on a "different level" as you call it, I can offer a couple of other insights that I think you are clearly missing. We talk about, as you mention the benefits of needing extra help and a Bishop provides that. We can discuss how pleasant it is to walk into a Bishops office and leave with a lighter burden surely wonderful things. However, if that was the only impact of not confessing our sins just a little discomfort well maybe we could just let it go at "meh, don't worry about it, it'll fade with time. However it is never so simple.

In the temple the phrase "all truth can be circumscribed into one great whole" is significant if you want to try to grasp the ramifications of our actions on the great whole. For instance if as a priesthood holder you have never given a blessing of power where someone is healed in an instant it may not occur to you that power and authority is bought with a price that each individual priesthood holder must pay. Consider Elder Russel M. Nelson's observations concerning his fear for those who may need to exercise their priesthood in power:

Well, brethren, in like manner, I fear that there are too many men who have been given the authority of the priesthood but who lack priesthood power because the flow of power has been blocked by sins such as laziness, dishonesty, pride, immorality, or preoccupation with things of the world.(The Price of Priesthood Power By President Russell M. Nelson April 2016)

For most, especially in this case of a grievous moral transgression such as is the object of this OP, to counsel them that they do not need to confess their sins of this nature to their Bishop is to potentially make priesthood eunuchs of them by undermining their access to priesthood power.

Consider upon this additional thought that Elder Nelson provides:

In a coming day, only those men who have taken their priesthood seriously, by diligently seeking to be taught by the Lord Himself, will be able to bless, guide, protect, strengthen, and heal others. Only a man who has paid the price for priesthood power will be able to bring miracles to those he loves and keep his marriage and family safe, now and throughout eternity.(The Price of Priesthood Power By President Russell M. Nelson April 2016

This is just one small example of how there are ramifications to bad advice and failing to properly manage our serious transgressions may leave us fathers and husbands eviscerated in our roles as protectors of our families. No one knows when he will be put in a position where someone will seek him out to bless them in suffering or even a child near death but for the blessing of power from one who knows he stands before the Lord having properly addressed his sins and that he stands capable of calling down the power of heaven to bless those around him.

Elder Nelson calls it paying the price for priesthood power. It is called a price because it requires something from us. We must be pure and that calls for repentance. Now this is just one area but it should serve to illustrate that there are ramifications to not being obedient in the requirements of proper repentance but it impacts in a dozen more ways as well. Give Satan no ability to rob you of your abilities in the Gospel and in the priesthood. Do it right and when required such as the transgression of the OP confess to your Bishop.

[bbsion]

The way I see it is that confessing to a Bishop is sort of a lesser law. We are in the lone and dreary world and we are all on different levels of understanding. I have personally seen the peace that can come from confessing to a Bishop. I have also see the disaster that comes from confessing to an untrustworthy Bishop. The system is not perfect and is not applicable to everyone. It's set in place to help guide the masses in the telestial vehicle that is the Church. There are individuals that can find complete repentance without going to a Bishop. The reason we are counseled to go to the Bishop is because most people need the extra help. The act of confessing to a Bishop is an easy way to bring humility, which is essential when repenting. This is because you are talking with another imperfect person who (if they are sincere and trustworthy) can bring you peace through the process of a broken heart and contrite spirit. This is one of the best systems for the masses and I say that nearly everyone should observe at some point in their life. However, it (confessing to a Bishop) is not required to fully repent. Confessing to God most certainly is required. Again, just remember you cannot fool God. You cannot feign repentance and expect God to let you in.

Beyond doubt you fail to understand this principle. Having taken many, many confessions in this capacity discussed, and thus being on a "different level" as you call it, I can offer a couple of other insights that I think you are clearly missing. We talk about, as you mention the benefits of needing extra help and a Bishop provides that. We can discuss how pleasant it is to walk into a Bishops office and leave with a lighter burden surely wonderful things. However, if that was the only impact of not confessing our sins just a little discomfort well maybe we could just let it go at "meh, don't worry about it, it'll fade with time. However it is never so simple.

In the temple the phrase "all truth can be circumscribed into one great whole" is significant if you want to try to grasp the ramifications of our actions on the great whole. For instance if as a priesthood holder you have never given a blessing of power where someone is healed in an instant it may not occur to you that power and authority is bought with a price that each individual priesthood holder must pay. Consider Elder Russel M. Nelson's observations concerning his fear for those who may need to exercise their priesthood in power:

Well, brethren, in like manner, I fear that there are too many men who have been given the authority of the priesthood but who lack priesthood power because the flow of power has been blocked by sins such as laziness, dishonesty, pride, immorality, or preoccupation with things of the world.(The Price of Priesthood Power By President Russell M. Nelson April 2016)

For most, especially in this case of a grievous moral transgression such as is the object of this OP, to counsel them that they do not need to confess their sins of this nature to their Bishop is to potentially make priesthood eunuchs of them by undermining their access to priesthood power.

Consider upon this additional thought that Elder Nelson provides:

In a coming day, only those men who have taken their priesthood seriously, by diligently seeking to be taught by the Lord Himself, will be able to bless, guide, protect, strengthen, and heal others. Only a man who has paid the price for priesthood power will be able to bring miracles to those he loves and keep his marriage and family safe, now and throughout eternity.(The Price of Priesthood Power By President Russell M. Nelson April 2016

This is just one small example of how there are ramifications to bad advice and failing to properly manage our serious transgressions may leave us fathers and husbands eviscerated in our roles as protectors of our families. No one knows when he will be put in a position where someone will seek him out to bless them in suffering or even a child near death but for the blessing of power from one who knows he stands before the Lord having properly addressed his sins and that he stands capable of calling down the power of heaven to bless those around him.

Elder Nelson calls it paying the price for priesthood power. It is called a price because it requires something from us. We must be pure and that calls for repentance. Now this is just one area but it should serve to illustrate that there are ramifications to not being obedient in the requirements of proper repentance but it impacts in a dozen more ways as well. Give Satan no ability to rob you of your abilities in the Gospel and in the priesthood. Do it right and when required such as the transgression of the OP confess to your Bishop.

I appreciate your input. However, it might be beneficial to lose the condescending tone. I still stand by what I said.

[bbsion]

I haven't read this thread, but the subject reminds me of the one entitled "Will My Bishop Tell My Parents" or something similar. That was trollish.

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This is a very good point. Why do you think the OP decided to do this? To generate discussion? To get real input with a real question they had? Maybe they are conducting an experiment to see how divisive church members are on certain topics...

[Silver]

I haven't read this thread, but the subject reminds me of the one entitled "Will My Bishop Tell My Parents" or something similar. That was trollish.

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This is a very good point. Why do you think the OP decided to do this? To generate discussion? To get real input with a real question they had? Maybe they are conducting an experiment to see how divisive church members are on certain topics...

I think we occasionally have trolls come on the forum who drop a stink bomb and then leave only to return later and start another controversial thread which makes the natives restless. As mentioned, I didn't even read the original post of this thread. The title just looked suspicious.

[brlenox]

The way I see it is that confessing to a Bishop is sort of a lesser law. We are in the lone and dreary world and we are all on different levels of understanding. I have personally seen the peace that can come from confessing to a Bishop. I have also see the disaster that comes from confessing to an untrustworthy Bishop. The system is not perfect and is not applicable to everyone. It's set in place to help guide the masses in the telestial vehicle that is the Church. There are individuals that can find complete repentance without going to a Bishop. The reason we are counseled to go to the Bishop is because most people need the extra help. The act of confessing to a Bishop is an easy way to bring humility, which is essential when repenting. This is because you are talking with another imperfect person who (if they are sincere and trustworthy) can bring you peace through the process of a broken heart and contrite spirit. This is one of the best systems for the masses and I say that nearly everyone should observe at some point in their life. However, it (confessing to a Bishop) is not required to fully repent. Confessing to God most certainly is required. Again, just remember you cannot fool God. You cannot feign repentance and expect God to let you in.

Beyond doubt you fail to understand this principle. Having taken many, many confessions in this capacity discussed, and thus being on a "different level" as you call it, I can offer a couple of other insights that I think you are clearly missing. We talk about, as you mention the benefits of needing extra help and a Bishop provides that. We can discuss how pleasant it is to walk into a Bishops office and leave with a lighter burden surely wonderful things. However, if that was the only impact of not confessing our sins just a little discomfort well maybe we could just let it go at "meh, don't worry about it, it'll fade with time. However it is never so simple.

In the temple the phrase "all truth can be circumscribed into one great whole" is significant if you want to try to grasp the ramifications of our actions on the great whole. For instance if as a priesthood holder you have never given a blessing of power where someone is healed in an instant it may not occur to you that power and authority is bought with a price that each individual priesthood holder must pay. Consider Elder Russel M. Nelson's observations concerning his fear for those who may need to exercise their priesthood in power:

Well, brethren, in like manner, I fear that there are too many men who have been given the authority of the priesthood but who lack priesthood power because the flow of power has been blocked by sins such as laziness, dishonesty, pride, immorality, or preoccupation with things of the world.(The Price of Priesthood Power By President Russell M. Nelson April 2016)

For most, especially in this case of a grievous moral transgression such as is the object of this OP, to counsel them that they do not need to confess their sins of this nature to their Bishop is to potentially make priesthood eunuchs of them by undermining their access to priesthood power.

Consider upon this additional thought that Elder Nelson provides:

In a coming day, only those men who have taken their priesthood seriously, by diligently seeking to be taught by the Lord Himself, will be able to bless, guide, protect, strengthen, and heal others. Only a man who has paid the price for priesthood power will be able to bring miracles to those he loves and keep his marriage and family safe, now and throughout eternity.(The Price of Priesthood Power By President Russell M. Nelson April 2016

This is just one small example of how there are ramifications to bad advice and failing to properly manage our serious transgressions may leave us fathers and husbands eviscerated in our roles as protectors of our families. No one knows when he will be put in a position where someone will seek him out to bless them in suffering or even a child near death but for the blessing of power from one who knows he stands before the Lord having properly addressed his sins and that he stands capable of calling down the power of heaven to bless those around him.

Elder Nelson calls it paying the price for priesthood power. It is called a price because it requires something from us. We must be pure and that calls for repentance. Now this is just one area but it should serve to illustrate that there are ramifications to not being obedient in the requirements of proper repentance but it impacts in a dozen more ways as well. Give Satan no ability to rob you of your abilities in the Gospel and in the priesthood. Do it right and when required such as the transgression of the OP confess to your Bishop.

I appreciate your input. However, it might be beneficial to lose the condescending tone. I still stand by what I said.

Condescending? Me? Surely you must jest. Nonetheless your response reminds me of something I read many years ago in a book titled "Truth" by Alvin R. Dyer a person I might condescendingly assume you have never heard of. However, it was an observation about the distinctions of those born as Gentiles and that one of the overriding behaviors was that they lacked the necessity of full commitment such as was nature of those born into the House of Israel. Gentiles on the other hand were perfectly comfortable with picking and choosing what commandments they could obey and which ones were just too troublesome to bother with. When I first read the idea, it struck me as a brilliant observation of the mentality that encapsulated an excellent characterization of a behavior that permeates true Gentile existence.

[RAB]

Hello everyone!

Thanks for helping me with something I'm struggling with.

8 months ago I had sex with a friend of mine. I have personally repented of it. I have taken it to the lord and have forsaken my actions. I will wait until marriage from now on.

My question is, is the repentance process incomplete until I confess to my bishop?

Thanks again.

I haven't read all the other posts, but let me just say that the bishop is ordained not just as a bishop but as a common judge in Israel. Among the keys he holds are the keys of repentance (for serious transgressions) and the keys to the administration of the sacrament. A bishop cannot forgive sins, but he can help you work through the repentance process fully to ensure you are again worthy to partake of the sacrament and recommit yourself to following the savior. Often times a confession will end the repentance process where a person has taken all of the other steps necessary, but just needs clearance from the one holding the keys of repentance and the keys of the sacrament in order to move forward. But every situation is different.

Also, most bishops I know are very loving, understanding, and guided by the spirit in the steps to take to help others through the repentance process.
Surely after talking to him you will feel the Savior's love for you and a great weight lifted from your shoulders.

I wish you the best!

[bbsion]

I haven't read this thread, but the subject reminds me of the one entitled "Will My Bishop Tell My Parents" or something similar. That was trollish.

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This is a very good point. Why do you think the OP decided to do this? To generate discussion? To get real input with a real question they had? Maybe they are conducting an experiment to see how divisive church members are on certain topics...

I think we occasionally have trolls come on the forum who drop a stink bomb and then leave only to return later and start another controversial thread which makes the natives restless. As mentioned, I didn't even read the original post of this thread. The title just looked suspicious.

It's clickbait! Dang... and I took the bait.

[bbsion]

The way I see it is that confessing to a Bishop is sort of a lesser law. We are in the lone and dreary world and we are all on different levels of understanding. I have personally seen the peace that can come from confessing to a Bishop. I have also see the disaster that comes from confessing to an untrustworthy Bishop. The system is not perfect and is not applicable to everyone. It's set in place to help guide the masses in the telestial vehicle that is the Church. There are individuals that can find complete repentance without going to a Bishop. The reason we are counseled to go to the Bishop is because most people need the extra help. The act of confessing to a Bishop is an easy way to bring humility, which is essential when repenting. This is because you are talking with another imperfect person who (if they are sincere and trustworthy) can bring you peace through the process of a broken heart and contrite spirit. This is one of the best systems for the masses and I say that nearly everyone should observe at some point in their life. However, it (confessing to a Bishop) is not required to fully repent. Confessing to God most certainly is required. Again, just remember you cannot fool God. You cannot feign repentance and expect God to let you in.

Beyond doubt you fail to understand this principle. Having taken many, many confessions in this capacity discussed, and thus being on a "different level" as you call it, I can offer a couple of other insights that I think you are clearly missing. We talk about, as you mention the benefits of needing extra help and a Bishop provides that. We can discuss how pleasant it is to walk into a Bishops office and leave with a lighter burden surely wonderful things. However, if that was the only impact of not confessing our sins just a little discomfort well maybe we could just let it go at "meh, don't worry about it, it'll fade with time. However it is never so simple.

In the temple the phrase "all truth can be circumscribed into one great whole" is significant if you want to try to grasp the ramifications of our actions on the great whole. For instance if as a priesthood holder you have never given a blessing of power where someone is healed in an instant it may not occur to you that power and authority is bought with a price that each individual priesthood holder must pay. Consider Elder Russel M. Nelson's observations concerning his fear for those who may need to exercise their priesthood in power:

Well, brethren, in like manner, I fear that there are too many men who have been given the authority of the priesthood but who lack priesthood power because the flow of power has been blocked by sins such as laziness, dishonesty, pride, immorality, or preoccupation with things of the world.(The Price of Priesthood Power By President Russell M. Nelson April 2016)

For most, especially in this case of a grievous moral transgression such as is the object of this OP, to counsel them that they do not need to confess their sins of this nature to their Bishop is to potentially make priesthood eunuchs of them by undermining their access to priesthood power.

Consider upon this additional thought that Elder Nelson provides:

In a coming day, only those men who have taken their priesthood seriously, by diligently seeking to be taught by the Lord Himself, will be able to bless, guide, protect, strengthen, and heal others. Only a man who has paid the price for priesthood power will be able to bring miracles to those he loves and keep his marriage and family safe, now and throughout eternity.(The Price of Priesthood Power By President Russell M. Nelson April 2016

This is just one small example of how there are ramifications to bad advice and failing to properly manage our serious transgressions may leave us fathers and husbands eviscerated in our roles as protectors of our families. No one knows when he will be put in a position where someone will seek him out to bless them in suffering or even a child near death but for the blessing of power from one who knows he stands before the Lord having properly addressed his sins and that he stands capable of calling down the power of heaven to bless those around him.

Elder Nelson calls it paying the price for priesthood power. It is called a price because it requires something from us. We must be pure and that calls for repentance. Now this is just one area but it should serve to illustrate that there are ramifications to not being obedient in the requirements of proper repentance but it impacts in a dozen more ways as well. Give Satan no ability to rob you of your abilities in the Gospel and in the priesthood. Do it right and when required such as the transgression of the OP confess to your Bishop.

I appreciate your input. However, it might be beneficial to lose the condescending tone. I still stand by what I said.

Condescending? Me? Surely you must jest. ...

I am taking that as sarcasm and I am stepping out of this discussion with you. I still stand by what I said.

[brlenox]

Beyond doubt you fail to understand this principle. Having taken many, many confessions in this capacity discussed, and thus being on a "different level" as you call it, I can offer a couple of other insights that I think you are clearly missing. We talk about, as you mention the benefits of needing extra help and a Bishop provides that. We can discuss how pleasant it is to walk into a Bishops office and leave with a lighter burden surely wonderful things. However, if that was the only impact of not confessing our sins just a little discomfort well maybe we could just let it go at "meh, don't worry about it, it'll fade with time. However it is never so simple.

In the temple the phrase "all truth can be circumscribed into one great whole" is significant if you want to try to grasp the ramifications of our actions on the great whole. For instance if as a priesthood holder you have never given a blessing of power where someone is healed in an instant it may not occur to you that power and authority is bought with a price that each individual priesthood holder must pay. Consider Elder Russel M. Nelson's observations concerning his fear for those who may need to exercise their priesthood in power:



For most, especially in this case of a grievous moral transgression such as is the object of this OP, to counsel them that they do not need to confess their sins of this nature to their Bishop is to potentially make priesthood eunuchs of them by undermining their access to priesthood power.

Consider upon this additional thought that Elder Nelson provides:



This is just one small example of how there are ramifications to bad advice and failing to properly manage our serious transgressions may leave us fathers and husbands eviscerated in our roles as protectors of our families. No one knows when he will be put in a position where someone will seek him out to bless them in suffering or even a child near death but for the blessing of power from one who knows he stands before the Lord having properly addressed his sins and that he stands capable of calling down the power of heaven to bless those around him.

Elder Nelson calls it paying the price for priesthood power. It is called a price because it requires something from us. We must be pure and that calls for repentance. Now this is just one area but it should serve to illustrate that there are ramifications to not being obedient in the requirements of proper repentance but it impacts in a dozen more ways as well. Give Satan no ability to rob you of your abilities in the Gospel and in the priesthood. Do it right and when required such as the transgression of the OP confess to your Bishop.

I appreciate your input. However, it might be beneficial to lose the condescending tone. I still stand by what I said.

Condescending? Me? Surely you must jest. ...

I am taking that as sarcasm and I am stepping out of this discussion with you. I still stand by what I said.

Nobody has a sense of humor this days. Hopefully you are not so easily offended in more important things in life. Best of luck to you.

[bbsion]

I appreciate your input. However, it might be beneficial to lose the condescending tone. I still stand by what I said.

Condescending? Me? Surely you must jest. ...

I am taking that as sarcasm and I am stepping out of this discussion with you. I still stand by what I said.

Nobody has a sense of humor this days. Hopefully you are not so easily offended in more important things in life. Best of luck to you.

My apologies. Perhaps it's because I am not used to your humor and anything said over the internet can be taken wrong.

[brlenox]

Condescending? Me? Surely you must jest. ...

I am taking that as sarcasm and I am stepping out of this discussion with you. I still stand by what I said.

Nobody has a sense of humor this days. Hopefully you are not so easily offended in more important things in life. Best of luck to you.

My apologies. Perhaps it's because I am not used to your humor and anything said over the internet can be taken wrong.

No problem. I'm too old to use emoji's to soften my generally direct tone and my sense of humor is often not very humorous. I guess...

[freedomforall]

For those that do not or will not take proper steps for repentance, they are not the Lord's sheep.

3 Nephi 18:31
31 But if he repent not he shall not be numbered among my people, that he may not destroy my people, for behold I know my sheep, and they are numbered.

Alma 5:38
38 Behold, I say unto you, that the good shepherd doth call you; yea, and in his own name he doth call you, which is the name of Christ; and if ye will not hearken unto the voice of the good shepherd, to the name by which ye are called, behold, ye are not the sheep of the good shepherd.

John 6:37
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

D&C 20
80 Any member of the church of Christ transgressing, or being overtaken in a fault, shall be dealt with as the scriptures direct.

Here is a scripture telling us that a spiritual person is required to help restore a repentant person.

Gal. 6:1
1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Ex. 32:33
33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Alma 5:57
57 And now I say unto you, all you that are desirous to follow the voice of the good shepherd, come ye out from the wicked, and be ye separate, and touch not their unclean things; and behold, their names shall be blotted out, that the names of the wicked shall not be numbered among the names of the righteous, that the word of God may be fulfilled, which saith: The names of the wicked shall not be mingled with the names of my people;

Moro. 6:7
7 And they were strict to observe that there should be no iniquity among them; and whoso was found to commit iniquity, and three witnesses of the church did condemn them before the elders, and if they repented not, and confessed not, their names were blotted out, and they were not numbered among the people of Christ.

Now we know.

[Ashleyyyy]

It's between you and Jesus. Not you and some bishop. Arms of flesh can make you think they have been delgated to usurp Christ, but they're not, and they can't.

[brlenox]

It's between you and Jesus. Not you and some bishop. Arms of flesh can make you think they have been delgated to usurp Christ, but they're not, and they can't.

Everyone certainly is entitled to their opinion and so that we do not agree in the least on this is not unexpected. However, it is always a wonderment to me how an opinion such as this can step over all of the comments by living apostles and prophets and scriptures that are contrary to the expressed opinion. The only conclusion I can come to is that you do not believe in living prophets. Is that the case or is there other cause?

[freedomforall]

It's between you and Jesus. Not you and some bishop. Arms of flesh can make you think they have been delgated to usurp Christ, but they're not, and they can't.

Everyone certainly is entitled to their opinion and so that we do not agree in the least on this is not unexpected. However, it is always a wonderment to me how an opinion such as this can step over all of the comments by living apostles and prophets and scriptures that are contrary to the expressed opinion. The only conclusion I can come to is that you do not believe in living prophets. Is that the case or is there other cause?

Does the term "rebellious attitude" explain the problem?
For those implying that God does not know what he says, or that he is somehow mistaken is most horrific. Some people find truth to be hard because it cuts to the core. And who wants God to know more than they?

[freedomforall]

To not trust in the arm of flesh is only half of the equation. The other half is that we are to trust when the person speaking is teaching according to truth and light by way of the Holy Ghost.

2 Nephi 28:31
31 Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save (except) their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.

So it is folly to say don't trust in the arm of flesh, because he or she may be teaching true principles. Just choose where to find a Holy person, rather than an evil one.

[Arenera]

For those that do not or will not take proper steps for repentance, they are not the Lord's sheep.

3 Nephi 18:31
31 But if he repent not he shall not be numbered among my people, that he may not destroy my people, for behold I know my sheep, and they are numbered.

Alma 5:38
38 Behold, I say unto you, that the good shepherd doth call you; yea, and in his own name he doth call you, which is the name of Christ; and if ye will not hearken unto the voice of the good shepherd, to the name by which ye are called, behold, ye are not the sheep of the good shepherd.

John 6:37
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

D&C 20
80 Any member of the church of Christ transgressing, or being overtaken in a fault, shall be dealt with as the scriptures direct.

Here is a scripture telling us that a spiritual person is required to help restore a repentant person.

Gal. 6:1
1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Ex. 32:33
33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Alma 5:57
57 And now I say unto you, all you that are desirous to follow the voice of the good shepherd, come ye out from the wicked, and be ye separate, and touch not their unclean things; and behold, their names shall be blotted out, that the names of the wicked shall not be numbered among the names of the righteous, that the word of God may be fulfilled, which saith: The names of the wicked shall not be mingled with the names of my people;

Moro. 6:7
7 And they were strict to observe that there should be no iniquity among them; and whoso was found to commit iniquity, and three witnesses of the church did condemn them before the elders, and if they repented not, and confessed not, their names were blotted out, and they were not numbered among the people of Christ.

Now we know.

Is fornication iniquity?

[Gage]

It's between you and Jesus. Not you and some bishop. Arms of flesh can make you think they have been delgated to usurp Christ, but they're not, and they can't.

Nobody is getting down on their knees in the Bishops office to ask him for forgiveness. Telling the Bishop is for help during the repentance process and to keep fornicators out of the Temple.

[aspietroll]

Haven't read any of the thread but I'm here to remind those of you that are reading it that if confessing to the Bishop could result in you losing a temple recommend, definitely under no circumstances tell the Bishop if you're attending BYU and spending thousands of dollars for a degree.

[freedomforall]

Is fornication iniquity?

Rev 2
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Mosiah 2
38 Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever.
39 And now I say unto you, that mercy hath no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment.
40 O, all ye old men, and also ye young men, and you little children who can understand my words, for I have spoken plainly unto you that ye might understand, I pray that ye should awake to a remembrance of the awful situation of those that have fallen into transgression.

D&C 19
4 And surely every man must repent or suffer, for I, God, am endless.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/confession?lang=eng

[bbsion]

I haven't read this thread, but the subject reminds me of the one entitled "Will My Bishop Tell My Parents" or something similar. That was trollish.

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This is a very good point. Why do you think the OP decided to do this? To generate discussion? To get real input with a real question they had? Maybe they are conducting an experiment to see how divisive church members are on certain topics...

I think we occasionally have trolls come on the forum who drop a stink bomb and then leave only to return later and start another controversial thread which makes the natives restless. As mentioned, I didn't even read the original post of this thread. The title just looked suspicious.

I just thought of something. Instead of this being a topic brought up by a troll. What if it's just another user that is on these boards that wanted the opinion of the members without revealing their identity by using their real login?