Should I confess to the bishop?

[brlenox]

The institution/organization that you belong to requires that you live by certain standards as a condition of membership. -Finrock

And is it not the same institution that you belong too?

[brlenox]

Cool. If you have some personal issue with me, start a thread and get it all out or send me a private message. Otherwise, as a matter of integrity, in the course of a discussion or conversation you ought to just address the content of my posts.

-Finrock

It is your integrity that has always been the matter.

[Gage]

Finrock is correct that most sin can be forgiven through personal prayer. But some need assistance. Some sins are considered sins against the whole body of Christ. Some sins influence others and may cause others to sin.

Mosiah 26:6 It became expedient that those who committed sin that were in the church should be admonished by the church.

Members who had sinned were to be judged and held accountable. The Lord set conditions for those who were to be be received in membership. Some people need help through the repentance process and this is where the Bishop can help.

[MMbelieve]

It will bug you and you will question things, go to the bishop. It's required for this sin, we are taught that in young womens/young mens.

If you have been to the temple then it's even more pressing that you get in there. The longer you wait the harder it will be and the more foolish you will feel. If you are endowed then you may get a counsel but since you broke contact and stopped and have since recommited yourself, you won't be exed.

The devil is what is keeping you out of his office. To be truly repentant we must confess our sins. Some of these sins can be confessed to family, friends, spouse, God through prayer but some must also be confessed to the Bishop. Think of him as proxy for the Savior, if you can't tell the savior face to face, have you repented?

I had to do the same thing, only I waited 9 years. Don't recommend that! Really don't recommend it, makes you look bad especially after attending the temple and starting a family.

[Serragon]

Confession helps us to keep from deceiving ourselves which is the greatest stumbling block to true repentance.

[captainfearnot]

Personally, I would never confess anything to my bishop that I didn't want spread around the ward. I realize this goes against what the church teaches, but until they come up with a better system than the current one I'll take my chances repenting on my own.

[iWriteStuff]

Personally, I would never confess anything to my bishop that I didn't want spread around the ward. I realize this goes against what the church teaches, but until they come up with a better system than the current one I'll take my chances repenting on my own.

A few months back the Ward Executive Secretary, also our home teacher, sat in our family room telling us all about how a friend of ours was meeting with the bishop every week. The conversation got a lot shorter after that.

[BeNotDeceived]

How do you type with boxing gloves on?

Me wonders one post with Strong Bad connection; walks like a troll, etc. :o)

[Gage]

Personally, I would never confess anything to my bishop that I didn't want spread around the ward. I realize this goes against what the church teaches, but until they come up with a better system than the current one I'll take my chances repenting on my own.

Would you lie to the Bishop in a temple recommend interview about a sin you committed that would exclude you from getting the recommend?

[Finrock]

Cool. If you have some personal issue with me, start a thread and get it all out or send me a private message. Otherwise, as a matter of integrity, in the course of a discussion or conversation you ought to just address the content of my posts.

-Finrock

It is your integrity that has always been the matter.

No it hasn't. The topic is confessing to the bishop. Please limit your comments to the content and the substance of my posts. It is a violation of the forum rules to attack a person personally:

#1: Be kind and respectful.

“And see that there is no iniquity [on LDSFF], neither hardness with each other, neither lying, backbiting, nor evil speaking” (D&C 20:54)

- No personal attacks (ad hominem) or threats. No defamation of character, libel, slander, etc.

- No Trolling, flaming, spamming, baiting.

- You are expected to follow copyright laws and any other applicable laws when posting content on this forum.

I won't respond to personal attacks or other arguments of irrelevance after this point. I will begin to report personal attacks (ad hominem), defamation of character, trolling, etc. simply for the interest of reasoned discourse and for the interest of creating an atmosphere that is conducive to people openly sharing their thoughts, ideas, and beliefs without fear of being drowned out, attacked, ridiculed, mocked, or put down by individuals or groups of individuals. An atmosphere of mutual respect and kindness is what I desire and it is the type of atmosphere I'm interested in being a participant in.

Thank you for limiting your comments to the substance and contents of my posts.

-Finrock

[iWriteStuff]

Personally, I would never confess anything to my bishop that I didn't want spread around the ward. I realize this goes against what the church teaches, but until they come up with a better system than the current one I'll take my chances repenting on my own.

A few months back the Ward Executive Secretary, also our home teacher, sat in our family room telling us all about how a friend of ours was meeting with the bishop every week. The conversation got a lot shorter after that.

I should like to clarify that by saying the above, I don't mean to discourage the repentance process. Merely to remind those who ARE involved in the repentance process (bishops, exec secs, anyone in general) that when you don't exercise the proper discretion and confidentiality, you are doing damage to your calling and your reputation, not to mention unintentionally discouraging people from making appointments with the bishop.

[captainfearnot]

Would you lie to the Bishop in a temple recommend interview about a sin you committed that would exclude you from getting the recommend?

No. But why would I schedule a TR interview if I wasn't temple worthy?

[brlenox]

:ymhug:

[Gage]

Would you lie to the Bishop in a temple recommend interview about a sin you committed that would exclude you from getting the recommend?

No. But why would I schedule a TR interview if I wasn't temple worthy?

I guess was role playing like you held one, was wondering what you would do if you did sin but prayed for forgiveness and then when your interview came up would you tell him. I dont like telling the Bishop anything myself. But I dont like the members that I know that flaunt theirs but shouldnt have one. Some really have convinced themselves that if the Bishop signs off then thats all that matters. If the Bishop agrees they are worthy then they are worthy.

[captainfearnot]

I guess was role playing like you held one, was wondering what you would do if you did sin but prayed for forgiveness and then when your interview came up would you tell him. I don't like telling the Bishop anything myself. But I dont like the members that I know that flaunt theirs but shouldnt have one. Some really have convinced themselves that if the Bishop signs off then thats all that matters. If the Bishop agrees they are worthy then they are worthy.

Okay, I see. So let's say I'm a worthy TR holder and then I fornicate. Now I'm not TR worthy because I broke the law of chastity. I would postpone any TR interviews until after I felt like I had repented and been forgiven and could honestly answer that I live the law of chastity again.

Again, I realize the church teaches that confession to the bishop is necessary for true repentance but I guess I'm opting out of that part. Like I said, I'll take my chances. If God boots me out of the CK because I wasn't willing to play bishop roulette then I guess I failed that test and I'm not CK material.

[Sirocco]

I guess was role playing like you held one, was wondering what you would do if you did sin but prayed for forgiveness and then when your interview came up would you tell him. I don't like telling the Bishop anything myself. But I dont like the members that I know that flaunt theirs but shouldnt have one. Some really have convinced themselves that if the Bishop signs off then thats all that matters. If the Bishop agrees they are worthy then they are worthy.

Okay, I see. So let's say I'm a worthy TR holder and then I fornicate. Now I'm not TR worthy because I broke the law of chastity. I would postpone any TR interviews until after I felt like I had repented and been forgiven and could honestly answer that I live the law of chastity again.

Again, I realize the church teaches that confession to the bishop is necessary for true repentance but I guess I'm opting out of that part. Like I said, I'll take my chances. If God boots me out of the CK because I wasn't willing to play bishop roulette then I guess I failed that test and I'm not CK material.

Yeah I agree, telling a complete stranger about personal faults when said stranger will probably tell other people doesn't fill me with any confidence in said stranger :))

[Finrock]

Would you lie to the Bishop in a temple recommend interview about a sin you committed that would exclude you from getting the recommend?

No. But why would I schedule a TR interview if I wasn't temple worthy?

I guess was role playing like you held one, was wondering what you would do if you did sin but prayed for forgiveness and then when your interview came up would you tell him. I dont like telling the Bishop anything myself. But I dont like the members that I know that flaunt theirs but shouldnt have one. Some really have convinced themselves that if the Bishop signs off then thats all that matters. If the Bishop agrees they are worthy then they are worthy.

Just like you can be forgiven without your bishop, in the same way you aren't forgiven and worthy just because your bishop says so. These things are between the individual and the Lord. That is why I say that don't assume that speaking with the bishop is the same thing as getting to know Jesus Christ and understanding His love and mercy towards you. Until you've had an experience in your repentance process that involves Jesus and the Holy Ghost, your repentance is incomplete.

-Finrock

[bbsion]

Instructions for the church as a whole is to go to the Bishop. This is a guideline for the masses, not a doctrine. This can have profound effects on you and definitely help you to rid yourself of guilt. However, there are many Bishops I would never go to to confess anything due to a lack of trust. I have found there to be times that I can be rid of guilt by personal confession and repentance with God alone. Other times I have felt that going to a Bishop was more beneficial. Use your compass. Do you feel guilty? Do you trust the Bishop? You can never fool God. He knows if you genuinely repented, with or without a Bishop.

[freedomforall]

As I said before, SHOULD YOU talk to your Bishop? Yes.

Is this process dependent on your Bishop? No, do not be blinded into thinking your salvation depends on him. You must work out your salvation with God, your church leaders are here to help you, there are not here to save you because they cannot save you. There are countless stories in the scriptures and stories of Latter Day Saints who repented and were born of God, receiving a remission of sins without ever involving a single other person in he process.

I think you create confusion when you try to reply with excessive insight to a simple problem and that insight really is simply your perspective but it is not consistent with the Doctrine of the church.

Your first sentence answers the question that was asked and is absolutely correct. Your second paragraph muddies the waters and complicates the issue. A bishop does forgive in behalf of the church. So while Christ is the true source of final forgiveness he requires that we consider the roles of his servants in the process. Once one has complied by taking the proper issues to their Bishop, then they take it to Christ and seek his forgiveness.

While we should not pretend to be good when we are not and we ought not to be afraid to stand before others flawed and sinful, there is no mortal intermediary that stands between you and Christ with whom you must first go to before you can go to Christ.

In the Church the bishops stands as a temporary proxy for Christ. Many people have not progressed in their life to the point where they actually know Christ yet and a bishop fills the role of having someone physical and present that we can go to with confidence who should treat us with compassion and understanding. A sinner who doesn't believe that Christ is available to them and who has never felt love, compassion, and understanding can benefit a lot from going to a bishop who is filled with those things. This bishop can direct them to Christ, helping that person along the way. However, it is a false tradition to believe that before a person can be forgiven by Christ they must go "through" the "bishop gate". These gates and switches that people create in their minds wherein you must traverse before you get to Christ is falsehood and ultimately damning. It keeps people in submission to a mortal. Mortals who want to be obeyed, respected, and listened to will also fight to retain these gates and switches where they stand and have power to either open or close those gates and switches.

-Finrock

So are you saying the scriptures concerning going to clergy then Christ are false teachings? Your opinion of not going to a bishop as a mediator is not completely in line with the scriptures. Even new members have to be interviewed before baptism. Then other things have to be considered, ie, a priesthood holder, temple recommend holder, number of years as a member and level of knowledge.

Doctrine and Covenants 82:3
3 For of him unto whom much is given much is required; and he who sins against the greater light shall receive the greater condemnation.

We learn line upon line, here a little and there a little, but we are under greater condemnation for sin according to our growth. So saying we need no bishop at any time of our growth is not correct.

[freedomforall]

I guess was role playing like you held one, was wondering what you would do if you did sin but prayed for forgiveness and then when your interview came up would you tell him. I don't like telling the Bishop anything myself. But I dont like the members that I know that flaunt theirs but shouldnt have one. Some really have convinced themselves that if the Bishop signs off then thats all that matters. If the Bishop agrees they are worthy then they are worthy.

Okay, I see. So let's say I'm a worthy TR holder and then I fornicate. Now I'm not TR worthy because I broke the law of chastity. I would postpone any TR interviews until after I felt like I had repented and been forgiven and could honestly answer that I live the law of chastity again.

Again, I realize the church teaches that confession to the bishop is necessary for true repentance but I guess I'm opting out of that part. Like I said, I'll take my chances. If God boots me out of the CK because I wasn't willing to play bishop roulette then I guess I failed that test and I'm not CK material.

God forces no one into his presence. Scriptures are very clear on what it takes to live in his presence. Those who choose otherwise will not live with him, that's their choice. The Telestial kingdom will be full of people that did things their way. God doesn't boot people out, he simply doesn't let them in.

Likewise, some people do not get a college degree because they didn't want to put forth the required work the criteria called for.

[freedomforall]

Not all temple recommend holders are worthy, if they were, why is there locked clothing and affects lockers?
Why are there people going to the temple and taking pictures and videos incognito?
Why do some people make fun of garments?
Why do some people talk way too loud in the celestial room?
Why do some people switch personalities, one for the temple, another for the streets?
Many people lie about worthiness, but they're only fooling themselves. Bishops and Stake Presidents can discern those not worthy but they allow the guilty to condemn themselves.

[Rensai]

Its an interesting topic. I was thinking about it as I read over this thread and I couldn't think of a single scripture that says you should go confess to a priest/bishop so I did a search on lds.org and came up with nothing there either.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/confession?lang=eng

I did find scriptures about confessing to God and anyone you've wronged with your sins though.

88 And if thy brother or sister offend thee, thou shalt take him or her between him or her and thee alone; and if he or she confess thou shalt be reconciled.

Anyone got any scriptures that plainly state confession requires more than God and any person who's been wronged? Where did this idea originate Perhaps confessing to the bishop is just another tradition from the past. Honestly, it seems to unreliable to have come from God, some bishops can give some really good advice and help people. I think that happens a lot, but I also know, they frequently make the situation worse with bad advice. It doesn't make a lot of sense then that God would require us to put ourselves in a situation where it may or may not actually be of any help and/or may make things worse.

[Arenera]

Its an interesting topic. I was thinking about it as I read over this thread and I couldn't think of a single scripture that says you should go confess to a priest/bishop so I did a search on lds.org and came up with nothing there either.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/confession?lang=eng

I did find scriptures about confessing to God and anyone you've wronged with your sins though.

88 And if thy brother or sister offend thee, thou shalt take him or her between him or her and thee alone; and if he or she confess thou shalt be reconciled.

Anyone got any scriptures that plainly state confession requires more than God and any person who's been wronged? Where did this idea originate Perhaps confessing to the bishop is just another tradition from the past. Honestly, it seems to unreliable to have come from God, some bishops can give some really good advice and help people. I think that happens a lot, but I also know, they frequently make the situation worse with bad advice. It doesn't make a lot of sense then that God would require us to put ourselves in a situation where it may or may not actually be of any help and/or may make things worse.

You sure you read all the thread posts?

Of course!

Sexual sin is a serious sin

Alma 39
5 Know ye not, my son, that these things are an abomination in the sight of the Lord; yea, most abominable above all sins save it be the shedding of innocent bblood or denying the Holy Ghost?

Mosiah 26 explains confessing in the church and receiving forgiveness

29 Therefore I say unto you, Go; and whosoever transgresseth against me, him shall ye judge according to the sins which he has committed; and if he cconfess his sins before thee and me, and repenteth in the sincerity of his heart, him shall ye forgive, and I will forgive him also.

30 Yea, and as often as my people repent will I forgive them their trespasses against me.

You need to confess to your bishop, if you don't, you haven't followed Mosiah 26:29.

Be clean again. You don't want to go to the temple with this kind of sin without repenting of it.

[AI2.0]

No it hasn't. The topic is confessing to the bishop. Please limit your comments to the content and the substance of my posts. It is a violation of the forum rules to attack a person personally:

Firnrock; The topic was actually about whether or not a person needed to confess fornication to their Bishop. The answer is an absolute 'yes', this was not a general topic about repentance and confession. Because you treated it as a general topic, you got some pushback from other forum members.

Anyone got any scriptures that plainly state confession requires more than God and any person who's been wronged? Where did this idea originate Perhaps confessing to the bishop is just another tradition from the past. Honestly, it seems to unreliable to have come from God, some bishops can give some really good advice and help people. I think that happens a lot, but I also know, they frequently make the situation worse with bad advice. It doesn't make a lot of sense then that God would require us to put ourselves in a situation where it may or may not actually be of any help and/or may make things worse.

Rensai, You think this is 'tradition'? It's not, it's part of the repentance process for serious sins, such as fornication, which is what this thread was referencing. Just a couple of scriptures;

D&C 58:42 Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more.

43 By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them.

Here is an example of the need for confession;

D7C 61:11 And ye ought to say in your hearts—let God judge between me and thee, and reward thee according to thy deeds.
12 And him that repenteth not of his sins, and confesseth them not, ye shall bring before the church, and do with him as the scripture saith unto you, either by commandment or by revelation.
13 And this ye shall do that God may be glorified—not because ye forgive not, having not compassion, but that ye may be justified in the eyes of the law, that ye may not offend him who is your lawgiver—
14 Verily I say, for this cause ye shall do these things.

D&C 58:60 Let that which has been bestowed upon Ziba Peterson be taken from him; and let him stand as a member in the church, and labor with his own hands, with the brethren, until he is sufficiently chastened for all his sins; for he confesseth them not, and he thinketh to hide them.

The way the Lord sees it---Confession is proof of Repentance. Not confessing shows a person is trying to hide their sins. The member asked a question about whether or not he needed to confess his fornication to his Bishop. I don't see how this is even a discussion, I thought members of the church understood this. I really think if members were more familiar with our scriptures, we wouldn't have arguments on these topics. If anyone doesn't think confession is needed, maybe they should do some reading and look up 'confession' and 'repentance' and find the answers.

[markharr]

No it hasn't. The topic is confessing to the bishop. Please limit your comments to the content and the substance of my posts. It is a violation of the forum rules to attack a person personally:

Firnrock; The topic was actually about whether or not a person needed to confess fornication to their Bishop. The answer is an absolute 'yes', this was not a general topic about repentance and confession. Because you treated it as a general topic, you got some pushback from other forum members.

Anyone got any scriptures that plainly state confession requires more than God and any person who's been wronged? Where did this idea originate Perhaps confessing to the bishop is just another tradition from the past. Honestly, it seems to unreliable to have come from God, some bishops can give some really good advice and help people. I think that happens a lot, but I also know, they frequently make the situation worse with bad advice. It doesn't make a lot of sense then that God would require us to put ourselves in a situation where it may or may not actually be of any help and/or may make things worse.

Rensai, You think this is 'tradition'? It's not, it's part of the repentance process for serious sins, such as fornication, which is what this thread was referencing. Just a couple of scriptures;

D&C 58:42 Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more.

43 By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them.

Here is an example of the need for confession;

D7C 61:11 And ye ought to say in your hearts—let God judge between me and thee, and reward thee according to thy deeds.
12 And him that repenteth not of his sins, and confesseth them not, ye shall bring before the church, and do with him as the scripture saith unto you, either by commandment or by revelation.
13 And this ye shall do that God may be glorified—not because ye forgive not, having not compassion, but that ye may be justified in the eyes of the law, that ye may not offend him who is your lawgiver—
14 Verily I say, for this cause ye shall do these things.

D&C 58:60 Let that which has been bestowed upon Ziba Peterson be taken from him; and let him stand as a member in the church, and labor with his own hands, with the brethren, until he is sufficiently chastened for all his sins; for he confesseth them not, and he thinketh to hide them.

The way the Lord sees it---Confession is proof of Repentance. Not confessing shows a person is trying to hide their sins. The member asked a question about whether or not he needed to confess his fornication to his Bishop. I don't see how this is even a discussion, I thought members of the church understood this. I really think if members were more familiar with our scriptures, we wouldn't have arguments on these topics. If anyone doesn't think confession is needed, maybe they should do some reading and look up 'confession' and 'repentance' and find the answers.

That doesn't say confess them to the Bishop. It says confess them. You could confess them to the person you have wronged, or to the lord directly.