Rachelle and Courtney, if you ever read this, you are truly an inspiration to me. God bless you both for your courageous sacrifice.
Lesbian and Mormon: Putting it All on the Altar
- h_p
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Lesbian and Mormon: Putting it All on the Altar
I hope everyone who has participated or just lurked on the LGBTW discussions we've been having here recently will watch this video about this lesbian couple's journey to (and back to) Christ. This is putting it all on the altar. I can only imagine the faith it required to do what they did. It's a 17-minute video, but worth every minute.
Rachelle and Courtney, if you ever read this, you are truly an inspiration to me. God bless you both for your courageous sacrifice.
Rachelle and Courtney, if you ever read this, you are truly an inspiration to me. God bless you both for your courageous sacrifice.
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- captain of 1,000
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Re: Lesbian and Mormon: Putting it All on the Altar
My heart goes out to these two women. Their faith in the Lord is inspirational.
- passionflower
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Re: Lesbian and Mormon: Putting it All on the Altar
I am all in favor of the church making a video with these two ladies in it. Their story is way better than that stupid MackIntosh thing.
I would be all for a concert in their honor, too, to support them and other people with same gender attraction problems who want to live the gospel of Christ, not the gospel of the world. I imagine there would be hardly any suicide risk among people with the kind of commitment and faith demonstrated by these two above, and no family break ups, either. So hey, problem solved.
But we all know what would happen if we had any public event supporting and bringing attention to these types of gay people, and especially if they eventually completely overcame their homosexual urges enough to marry and have children. You would have gay people and their sympathizers protesting the event, who would show up outside such a concert to stop others from entering in with threats and other forms of intimidation.
A while back I read a book written by a psychologist who ran a clinic, in southern California, I believe, that treated homosexuality, and within just a few short months with no relapses. He was so successful ( 100% successful ) that he opened up another branch clinic in NYC. The book he wrote ( this was maybe 18 years ago ) made him well known to the point that his clinics attracted many many protestors who would not allow any one seeking help from him to enter. They bullied, threatened, name called, and just plain got vicious to where he had to close his clinics, and was forbidden by law to never use his therapies again anywhere without losing his license. Last time I looked, his book was no longer in the library. What I remember about the book was the way this doctor described homosexuality as a disassociative disorder with his therapy worked around bringing the person back to himself, you could say.
Too bad it worked, because now it's illegal.
I would be all for a concert in their honor, too, to support them and other people with same gender attraction problems who want to live the gospel of Christ, not the gospel of the world. I imagine there would be hardly any suicide risk among people with the kind of commitment and faith demonstrated by these two above, and no family break ups, either. So hey, problem solved.
But we all know what would happen if we had any public event supporting and bringing attention to these types of gay people, and especially if they eventually completely overcame their homosexual urges enough to marry and have children. You would have gay people and their sympathizers protesting the event, who would show up outside such a concert to stop others from entering in with threats and other forms of intimidation.
A while back I read a book written by a psychologist who ran a clinic, in southern California, I believe, that treated homosexuality, and within just a few short months with no relapses. He was so successful ( 100% successful ) that he opened up another branch clinic in NYC. The book he wrote ( this was maybe 18 years ago ) made him well known to the point that his clinics attracted many many protestors who would not allow any one seeking help from him to enter. They bullied, threatened, name called, and just plain got vicious to where he had to close his clinics, and was forbidden by law to never use his therapies again anywhere without losing his license. Last time I looked, his book was no longer in the library. What I remember about the book was the way this doctor described homosexuality as a disassociative disorder with his therapy worked around bringing the person back to himself, you could say.
Too bad it worked, because now it's illegal.
Last edited by passionflower on August 21st, 2017, 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- captain of 1,000
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- passionflower
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Re: Lesbian and Mormon: Putting it All on the Altar
I wish I could remember that. At the time, I never imagined he would be taken down like he was.
On my Storyhour thread, I talk about working at a State Hospital many years ago, on the Maximum Security Ward, and am experienced working with those diagnosed with disassociative disorders and was able to observe them on a 24 hour basis. What this psychologist said made good sense to me. I couldn't believe I hadn't thought of it myself.
A disassociative disorder is a "way" to escape from reality. We all disassociate now and then, but we don't permanently leave our real identity. According to this psychologists' theory, homosexuals have a specific disassociation from their own gender. It wasn't so much that they were "attracted" to the same sex( this is a red herring!) , as they were not fully incorporated into their own.
Usually disassociation comes from trauma. But not necessarily.
The most commonly known type of disassociative disorder is schizophrenia, or split personality. Therefore, placing homosexuality under the umbrella of disassociative disorders defines it as a mental illness, and we all know this is taboo, hence the reason this guy was forced out of business. It didn't matter that his clients were being permanently cured. It didn't matter that they were coming willingly to his clinic. It didn't matter that they were paying him with their own money.
Homosexuality is on the verge of no longer being called a "sin" either, and the day seems to be coming that when we say it is, what happened to this guy and his clinic will happen to us and the church.
- Robin Hood
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Re: Lesbian and Mormon: Putting it All on the Altar
I know this sounds very ignorant, but I am so sick of this sodomite agenda being shoved down our throats almost hourly, that I watched only the first few seconds and clicked off.
Maybe I'll watch it later, but the truth is..... I'm not interested.
These people bleat on about their struggles as if they are super hero's.
It seems they want some kind of reward and acknowledgement for doing what they're supposed to do.
Clearly one of tnese women dresses and grooms like a man. The other one finds her attractive. Duh! Why if she is a lesbian does she find a woman who looks like a man attractive?
I'm sorry, but this is all nonsense.
Maybe I'll watch it later when I'm in a better mood.
Maybe I'll watch it later, but the truth is..... I'm not interested.
These people bleat on about their struggles as if they are super hero's.
It seems they want some kind of reward and acknowledgement for doing what they're supposed to do.
Clearly one of tnese women dresses and grooms like a man. The other one finds her attractive. Duh! Why if she is a lesbian does she find a woman who looks like a man attractive?
I'm sorry, but this is all nonsense.
Maybe I'll watch it later when I'm in a better mood.
Last edited by Robin Hood on August 21st, 2017, 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lesbian and Mormon: Putting it All on the Altar
So with Gay and Lesbian people...I've never understood why they don't think...well if I'm a woman attracted to women why don't I marry a man that looks girly, or if I'm a man attracted to men marry a woman that looks really manly? Obviously I can't ask this in a non anonymous environment because they probably would be intolerant. But this is an honest question.
- h_p
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Re: Lesbian and Mormon: Putting it All on the Altar
This video actually repudiates the sodomite agenda. I've known people who got married in order to get baptized, but these are the first I know who got divorced for it.Robin Hood wrote: ↑August 21st, 2017, 2:08 am I know this sounds very ignorant, but I am so sick of this sodomite agenda being shoved down our throats almost hourly, that I watched only the first few seconds and clicked off.
Maybe I'll watch it later, but the truth is..... I'm not interested.
These people bleat on about their struggles as if they are super hero's.
It seems they want some kind of reward and acknowledgement for doing what they're supposed to do.
- Robin Hood
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Re: Lesbian and Mormon: Putting it All on the Altar
Maybe so. But they just had to tell everybody didn't they.h_p wrote: ↑August 21st, 2017, 7:12 amThis video actually repudiates the sodomite agenda. I've known people who got married in order to get baptized, but these are the first I know who got divorced for it.Robin Hood wrote: ↑August 21st, 2017, 2:08 am I know this sounds very ignorant, but I am so sick of this sodomite agenda being shoved down our throats almost hourly, that I watched only the first few seconds and clicked off.
Maybe I'll watch it later, but the truth is..... I'm not interested.
These people bleat on about their struggles as if they are super hero's.
It seems they want some kind of reward and acknowledgement for doing what they're supposed to do.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 3074
Re: Lesbian and Mormon: Putting it All on the Altar
I think it's simple... rather than call it some medical term... rather I think it's the type of spirit we have listed to obey...
Nephi...
1 And now, behold, my brethren, I have spoken unto you, according as the Spirit hath constrained me; wherefore, I know that they must surely come to pass.
So Nephi is being "constrained" by whom? well we all believe that he is being constrained by the "Good Spirit" or God's Spirit. As that is the Spirit Nephi has listed to obey... So as there is The good Spirit, there must also needs be an opposite, with similar power, but in complete opposition to light.
again Nephi: "and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell."
IMO all people or the vast majority thereof in insane asylums and "diagnosed" as "chemically imbalanced" and various other countless medical problems are simply dealing with evil spirits that roam this earth by probably the trillions.. so that's who knows how many of them per one of us in the flesh.
Again, why does apostle Paul say that they are cursed with a "reprobate spirit" from God Almighty Himself.
So what spirit do we list to obey? Or what spirit do we give into? As we do have the power to make that choice.. and if we go where angels fear to tread, or, dabble with unclean things, then we give satan power over us to the degree that we dabble in these unclean things.
I am with Robin Hood, I started watching that video and at the beginning I was getting furious and sickened and thought here the hell we go again....
But also I do not agree period with some of the acceptance concepts either, like the family including them in their family photos at that wedding. That to me is glorifying their lifestyle and calling evil good. What are the children supposed to think as the years roll by seeing those "wonderful" pictures of that wedding with their sister/cousin/sisterinlaw/aunt etc. living in unashamed open lesbianism, and, the family accepting their lifestyle? Embracing it is what it is, and it gives other ones with similiar temptations excuses to do it also as you will be accepted no matter what.
Well, enough said already...
Nephi...
1 And now, behold, my brethren, I have spoken unto you, according as the Spirit hath constrained me; wherefore, I know that they must surely come to pass.
So Nephi is being "constrained" by whom? well we all believe that he is being constrained by the "Good Spirit" or God's Spirit. As that is the Spirit Nephi has listed to obey... So as there is The good Spirit, there must also needs be an opposite, with similar power, but in complete opposition to light.
again Nephi: "and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell."
IMO all people or the vast majority thereof in insane asylums and "diagnosed" as "chemically imbalanced" and various other countless medical problems are simply dealing with evil spirits that roam this earth by probably the trillions.. so that's who knows how many of them per one of us in the flesh.
Again, why does apostle Paul say that they are cursed with a "reprobate spirit" from God Almighty Himself.
So what spirit do we list to obey? Or what spirit do we give into? As we do have the power to make that choice.. and if we go where angels fear to tread, or, dabble with unclean things, then we give satan power over us to the degree that we dabble in these unclean things.
I am with Robin Hood, I started watching that video and at the beginning I was getting furious and sickened and thought here the hell we go again....
But also I do not agree period with some of the acceptance concepts either, like the family including them in their family photos at that wedding. That to me is glorifying their lifestyle and calling evil good. What are the children supposed to think as the years roll by seeing those "wonderful" pictures of that wedding with their sister/cousin/sisterinlaw/aunt etc. living in unashamed open lesbianism, and, the family accepting their lifestyle? Embracing it is what it is, and it gives other ones with similiar temptations excuses to do it also as you will be accepted no matter what.
Well, enough said already...
- captainfearnot
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Re: Lesbian and Mormon: Putting it All on the Altar
Assuming you are a straight man, attracted to women, would you consider a very feminine man to be an acceptable substitute for a woman?gardener4life wrote: ↑August 21st, 2017, 2:09 am So with Gay and Lesbian people...I've never understood why they don't think...well if I'm a woman attracted to women why don't I marry a man that looks girly, or if I'm a man attracted to men marry a woman that looks really manly? Obviously I can't ask this in a non anonymous environment because they probably would be intolerant. But this is an honest question.
- Robin Hood
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Re: Lesbian and Mormon: Putting it All on the Altar
I agree with much of what you say.simpleton wrote: ↑August 21st, 2017, 7:33 am I think it's simple... rather than call it some medical term... rather I think it's the type of spirit we have listed to obey...
Nephi...
1 And now, behold, my brethren, I have spoken unto you, according as the Spirit hath constrained me; wherefore, I know that they must surely come to pass.
So Nephi is being "constrained" by whom? well we all believe that he is being constrained by the "Good Spirit" or God's Spirit. As that is the Spirit Nephi has listed to obey... So as there is The good Spirit, there must also needs be an opposite, with similar power, but in complete opposition to light.
again Nephi: "and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell."
IMO all people or the vast majority thereof in insane asylums and "diagnosed" as "chemically imbalanced" and various other countless medical problems are simply dealing with evil spirits that roam this earth by probably the trillions.. so that's who knows how many of them per one of us in the flesh.
Again, why does apostle Paul say that they are cursed with a "reprobate spirit" from God Almighty Himself.
So what spirit do we list to obey? Or what spirit do we give into? As we do have the power to make that choice.. and if we go where angels fear to tread, or, dabble with unclean things, then we give satan power over us to the degree that we dabble in these unclean things.
I am with Robin Hood, I started watching that video and at the beginning I was getting furious and sickened and thought here the hell we go again....
But also I do not agree period with some of the acceptance concepts either, like the family including them in their family photos at that wedding. That to me is glorifying their lifestyle and calling evil good. What are the children supposed to think as the years roll by seeing those "wonderful" pictures of that wedding with their sister/cousin/sisterinlaw/aunt etc. living in unashamed open lesbianism, and, the family accepting their lifestyle? Embracing it is what it is, and it gives other ones with similiar temptations excuses to do it also as you will be accepted no matter what.
Well, enough said already...
Just one point; Paul says that God gives them over to a reprobate mind. That is a little different to being cursed with a spirit.
Last edited by Robin Hood on August 22nd, 2017, 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lesbian and Mormon: Putting it All on the Altar
Perphas you would feel differently if this were your daughter? It's interesting the experience her father, a bishop at the time, went through and what he learned about the Love the Lord has. I also was impressed with how the missionaries and ward responded. Do you think your response would have helped to save two souls? Powerful principles of love we all can learn from. I love how the lord uses these experiences to change hearts (and many times of those who judge and condem the sinners) and in this story it was the father whose experience of change caused me to think about the perfect love Christ has for us.Robin Hood wrote: ↑August 21st, 2017, 2:08 am I know this sounds very ignorant, but I am so sick of this sodomite agenda being shoved down our throats almost hourly, that I watched only the first few seconds and clicked off.
Maybe I'll watch it later, but the truth is..... I'm not interested.
These people bleat on about their struggles as if they are super hero's.
It seems they want some kind of reward and acknowledgement for doing what they're supposed to do.
Clearly one of tnese women dresses and grooms like a man. The other one finds her attractive. Duh! Why if she is a lesbian does she find a woman who looks like a man attractive?
I'm sorry, but this is all nonsense.
Maybe I'll watch it later when I'm in a better mood.
- oneClimbs
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Re: Lesbian and Mormon: Putting it All on the Altar
Well it starts out talking about their relationship, but as the met with the missionaries and read the Book of Mormon they discovered it was true and here's a quote from one of the women and it's pretty cool: "The ideas that we had for our life were so great...and we gave those up because we know that our Heavenly Father's plan is better, it's better than what we had in mind."Robin Hood wrote: ↑August 21st, 2017, 2:08 am I know this sounds very ignorant, but I am so sick of this sodomite agenda being shoved down our throats almost hourly, that I watched only the first few seconds and clicked off.
Maybe I'll watch it later, but the truth is..... I'm not interested.
These people bleat on about their struggles as if they are super hero's.
It seems they want some kind of reward and acknowledgement for doing what they're supposed to do.
Clearly one of tnese women dresses and grooms like a man. The other one finds her attractive. Duh! Why if she is a lesbian does she find a woman who looks like a man attractive?
I'm sorry, but this is all nonsense.
Maybe I'll watch it later when I'm in a better mood.
They got divorced so that they could pursue a life according to God's designs. That's pretty bold and I'm not sure that I've ever seen anyone willing to do that. I think they are a great example that could give hope to others.
- Robin Hood
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Re: Lesbian and Mormon: Putting it All on the Altar
Maybe...... if it was my daughter.drtanner wrote: ↑August 21st, 2017, 8:42 amPerphas you would feel differently if this were your daughter? It's interesting the experience her father, a bishop at the time, went through and what he learned about the Love the Lord has. I also was impressed with how the missionaries and ward responded. Do you think your response would have helped to save two souls? Powerful principles of love we all can learn from. I love how the lord uses these experiences to change hearts (and many times of those who judge and condem the sinners) and in this story it was the father whose experience of change caused me to think about the perfect love Christ has for us.Robin Hood wrote: ↑August 21st, 2017, 2:08 am I know this sounds very ignorant, but I am so sick of this sodomite agenda being shoved down our throats almost hourly, that I watched only the first few seconds and clicked off.
Maybe I'll watch it later, but the truth is..... I'm not interested.
These people bleat on about their struggles as if they are super hero's.
It seems they want some kind of reward and acknowledgement for doing what they're supposed to do.
Clearly one of tnese women dresses and grooms like a man. The other one finds her attractive. Duh! Why if she is a lesbian does she find a woman who looks like a man attractive?
I'm sorry, but this is all nonsense.
Maybe I'll watch it later when I'm in a better mood.
But that isn't really the issue. Of course we cut our own kids some slack, which is why parents are not best placed in situations like this. Parents will let their kids get away with things they would never let someone elses kids get away with. So your point is not particularly useful.
In my view we need to engage in some hard teaching and hard preaching on this matter. Too many of our youth are being exposed to only one side of the debate. The media, schools, universites and so on are presenting an image of homosexuality which is based on one falsehood after another. Here in the UK our 6 year olds are being taught in school about same-sex marriage and gender identity under the guise of "British values". They are not taught about traditional marriage, or even democracy and the rule of law etc which are far better qualified as British values. But they are taught all about so-called LGBTQ issues. These same kids then come to Primary on a Sunday morning and hear nothing to counter what the world is teaching them. Therefore they grow up thinking it's kind of ok... nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
By the time we in the church get serious about this issue they're already in their teens and conditioned by the world and not by the gospel. We have to play catch-up. I suspect this is what happened to these two girls.
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Re: Lesbian and Mormon: Putting it All on the Altar
Robin Hood wrote: ↑August 21st, 2017, 10:37 amMaybe...... if it was my daughter.drtanner wrote: ↑August 21st, 2017, 8:42 amPerphas you would feel differently if this were your daughter? It's interesting the experience her father, a bishop at the time, went through and what he learned about the Love the Lord has. I also was impressed with how the missionaries and ward responded. Do you think your response would have helped to save two souls? Powerful principles of love we all can learn from. I love how the lord uses these experiences to change hearts (and many times of those who judge and condem the sinners) and in this story it was the father whose experience of change caused me to think about the perfect love Christ has for us.Robin Hood wrote: ↑August 21st, 2017, 2:08 am I know this sounds very ignorant, but I am so sick of this sodomite agenda being shoved down our throats almost hourly, that I watched only the first few seconds and clicked off.
Maybe I'll watch it later, but the truth is..... I'm not interested.
These people bleat on about their struggles as if they are super hero's.
It seems they want some kind of reward and acknowledgement for doing what they're supposed to do.
Clearly one of tnese women dresses and grooms like a man. The other one finds her attractive. Duh! Why if she is a lesbian does she find a woman who looks like a man attractive?
I'm sorry, but this is all nonsense.
Maybe I'll watch it later when I'm in a better mood.
But that isn't really the issue. Of course we cut our own kids some slack, which is why parents are not best placed in situations like this. Parents will let their kids get away with things they would never let someone elses kids get away with. So your point is not particularly useful.
In my view we need to engage in some hard teaching and hard preaching on this matter. Too many of our youth are being exposed to only one side of the debate. The media, schools, universites and so on are presenting an image of homosexuality which is based on one falsehood after another. Here in the UK our 6 year olds are being taught in school about same-sex marriage and gender identity under the guise of "British values". They are not taught about traditional marriage, or even democracy and the rule of law etc which are far better qualified as British values. But they are taught all about so-called LGBTQ issues. These same kids then come to Primary on a Sunday morning and hear nothing to counter what the world is teaching them. Therefore they grow up thinking it's kind of ok... nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
By the time we in the church get serious about this issue they're already in their teens and conditioned by the world and not by the gospel. We have to play catch-up. I suspect this is what happened to these two girls.
The teaching of the doctrine of mairriage should be a priority, and early. It was focusing the doctrine and not the behavior that ultimately brought about change for these sisters. Do you think the daughter of the bishop was not taught the doctrine of marriage in her home? I think this illustrates perfectly the type of "hard teaching, and hard preaching" that will bring about actual change and understanding on this issue. How would you have approached this sister? Where do you think the parents went wrong? Where did the church go wrong? Did they go wrong? Let's not project our frustrations of the situation and lack of teaching in the world take away from the miracle of coming to Christ that took place here. Let's learn from how the miracle took place and apply it more aggressively in the world.
- Sirocco
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Re: Lesbian and Mormon: Putting it All on the Altar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V77t0eEkx7Igardener4life wrote: ↑August 21st, 2017, 2:09 am So with Gay and Lesbian people...I've never understood why they don't think...well if I'm a woman attracted to women why don't I marry a man that looks girly, or if I'm a man attracted to men marry a woman that looks really manly? Obviously I can't ask this in a non anonymous environment because they probably would be intolerant. But this is an honest question.
Here's a good one where this Gay Conservative explains that a bit.
A bit of language in that.