Marijuana killed our Son

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eddie
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Marijuana killed our Son

Post by eddie »

TODAY
Maggie Fox

© Ziobro family Michael Ziobro died in April from a heart arrhythmia. His family believes marijuana caused it.
Michael Ziobro was just 22 when he died. His family believes marijuana is to blame.

Michael Ziobro was just 22 when his mother, Kristina, found him unconscious on his bedroom floor.

"I went to say goodnight to him and I am the one who found him on the floor," Kristina Ziobro recalled.

"I called 911. They came and tried to revive him. But he was gone."

The Ziobros later found medical-grade marijuana in Michael's room, and the medical examiner found evidence of cannabis in his blood. Kristina and her husband are convinced the highly active marijuana caused Michael's heart to go into arrhythmia and killed him.

"It's crazy. People think, 'Oh, pot can't hurt you. It's natural'," said Ziobro, who lives in Springfield, New Jersey.

But the medical examiner said he cannot say for sure whether cannabis was involved in Michael's sudden death and notes there's little evidence about what marijuana does or doesn't do to the heart.

States are moving ahead with decriminalizing or outright legalizing not just the medical use of marijuana, but recreational use. Medical marijuana is legal in 28 states and Washington, D.C., although it is illegal under federal law, and about 10 percent of U.S. adults consider themselves current users of the drug.

At least 44 percent of high school seniors say they've tried cannabis, according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse, and 6 percent say they use it daily.

Advocates laud what they see as an excellent safety profile for marijuana, brushing aside medical research that indicates it does have its dangers, especially in adolescents and young adults.

The Ziobros say their son Michael was among those hurt by a drug they thought was perfectly safe.

"He was such an advocate," Kristina said. "He thought it was wonderful. He thought it was safe. He just thought it was natural and organic and it ended up killing him."

There's limited evidence on the benefits of marijuana. The gold standard for medicine is that the benefits of any treatment should outweigh the risks, but researchers say federal restrictions on using marijuana in medical studies have handicapped their ability to assess its values and dangers.

"He thought it was wonderful. He thought it was safe. He just thought it was natural and organic and it ended up killing him."

"Steps are being taken towards legalization and decriminalization of marijuana in the United States, and rates of recreational marijuana use may increase substantially as a result," said Barbara Yankey of Georgia State University, who led a team that published a study this week on marijuana's possible effects on the heart.

"However, there is little research on the impact of marijuana use on cardiovascular and cerebrovascular mortality."

Yankey's team found people who had ever used cannabis had more than triple the risk of dying from high blood pressure compared to people who had never used it.

Their study, published in the European Journal of Preventive Cardiology, has many limitations and relied on surveys of people who may have smoked marijuana just once in their lives. But it highlights the lack of solid data.

"Support for liberal marijuana use is partly due to claims that it is beneficial and possibly not harmful to health," Yankey said in a statement.

Kristina Ziobro thinks the push to make cannabis more available could endanger vulnerable people.

"I just think people are glossing over everything that's going on with marijuana," she said.

Michael Ziobro's death certificate does not list cannabis as the cause of death and Union County Medical Examiner Dr. Junaid Shaikh said he cannot say what caused the young man's heart to start beating so erratically that it stopped.

Victor and Kristina Ziobro are unhappy with the explanation and asked state legislators, as well as the police, to investigate.

"Although there is scarce research that indicates smoking cannabis can evoke cardiovascular complications, one is unable to attribute the 'Cause of Death' was due to smoking cannabis," Shaikh wrote in a letter to New Jersey state senator Thomas Kean after an inquiry.

"In my opinion, it is highly warranted that family members consult a geneticist and possibly consider cardiovascular genetic testing for hereditary causes of cardiac arrhythmia," Shaikh added in the letter, which the Ziobros provided to NBC News. His office did not immediately respond to NBC's request for further comment.

Kristina Ziobro says the family is following that advice — they have a daughter, also — but she says the marijuana they found was highly potent. She notes studies have shown the marijuana available to the public is indeed becoming stronger.

"The marijuana available in dispensaries can have THC (tetrahydrocannabinol, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana) content well above 20 percent — even higher in the concentrates —as opposed to the 3 percent to 5 percent that is typical of the wild plant." Dr. Rosalie Pacula at the RAND Corporation in Santa Monica, California, said in a statement posted on the website of the National Institute for Drug Abuse.

Ziobro provided images of the two packets marijuana found in Michael's room. They were labeled as having a THC concentration of 28 percent and 24 percent.

"The amount of THC in marijuana has been increasing steadily over the past few decades," NIDA adds.

"For a person who is new to marijuana use, this may mean exposure to higher THC levels with a greater chance of a harmful reaction. Higher THC levels may explain the rise in emergency room visits involving marijuana use."

This can raise the risk of a heart attack, NIDA, one of the National Institutes of Health, maintains.

"Marijuana raises heart rate for up to three hours after smoking. This effect may increase the chance of heart attack," it says.

Ziobro said she simply wants people to know about the risks.

Michael smoked pot to help with painful irritable bowel syndrome symptoms, she said. There's no hard medical evidence to support that use.

However, Dr. Michael Bostwick, a psychiatrist at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, says people who like the effects of marijuana may indeed find benefits from using it.

"It's psychoactive, so even if it doesn't cure what you have got, it'll make you feel different," he said.

"I think there are people who like how it makes you feel. But that doesn't translate into any proof for any conditions. We have many anecdotes and groups of people who report amazing benefits, but we don't have, in most cases, rigorous studies to confirm that."

Bostwick says there is plenty of reason to think marijuana could have therapeutic uses. Cells all over the body have receptors — a kind of biological doorway — for many of the active ingredients in cannabis.

But that's also reason to believe it could have undesirable side-effects.

"We now know that the younger you are, the greater the possibility of becoming addicted," he said.

"There is increasing evidence that it has effects on the developing brain, so that using it during adolescence is a bad idea," Bostwick added. For people with a genetic tendency for psychosis, symptoms can emerge earlier with cannabis use, he said.

"That's not to say that it causes psychosis, but it aggravates it and brings it out earlier," he said.

A 2013 study found the brains of young heavy marijuana users were altered in sub-cortical regions — part of the memory and reasoning circuits. And there is no doubt it can cause dependence and addiction, NIDA and other experts say.

Bostwick became one of Mayo's top experts on marijuana after his son became addicted. He says his son is now sober at age 24, after good treatment.

The experience leaves Bostwick "on the fence" about the benefits versus the risks of cannabis.

Two studies conducted by the Veterans Health Administration and published in the Annals of Internal Medicine this week found little evidence that cannabis helps either pain or post-traumatic stress disorder. However, other studies have shown that cannabinoids can help treat chronic pain.

Other studies have found cannabinoids can help reduce seizures in children with certain severe forms of epilepsy. Cannabinoid pills can also help prevent and ease nausea caused by chemotherapy.

But the drug is intoxicating, can endanger drivers, and one team of doctors found hospital ER visits from panicked pot tourists doubled after Colorado legalized recreational marijuana.

"There will be people who have been badly hurt and there will be people who claim they have been helped and I think both will be true,"Bostwick said.

"Our work is only as good as the studies that are done, but if they can't be done, then we really can't be definitive about anything."

Ezra
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by Ezra »

Marijuana used topically killed my pain in my wrist that I broke in my 20 and brought it back 100% mobility. Cbd oil extracted from hemp cured my sons autism.

I am totally an advocate of having the freedoms to have and grow marijuana/hemp so anyone who wants to use it as god intended as a medicine can. I would rather not see people use it recreationally. But I defend their freedoms to.
Marijuana is not the problem just as guns are not the problem. It's the misuse of it.
Take away guns or marijuana by laws only effects good people from defending themselves or good people from having medicine. Bad people with ignore the laws anyways.

Laws that criminalize the use of drugs hurt all tax payers that have to flip the bill for their time in jail/prison.

I have no interest in paying room and board cable tv healthcare and dental plus facilities and guards to imprison someone for incorrect use of marijuana.

Lizzy60
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by Lizzy60 »

There could be numerous articles posted every day saying things like Prescription Painkillers killed my son....Vaccines killed my son...Alcohol killed my son....Anti-depressants killed my son.....Drinking too much water killed my son....Beestings killed my son...a Car Accident killed my son....

You get the idea.

Crackers
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by Crackers »

I agree, the abuse of cannabis by some should not hinder its access by others. The next cancer patient in my family will try this as at least part of their treatment plan (if I have anything to do with it), and I don't want to have to jump through hoops, pay exorbitant prices, or move to a different state to use a plant I can grow myself. BTW, I used to be of the opposing viewpoint, so I understand both sides of the issue. But now I have seen the light.

Ezra
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by Ezra »

Crackers wrote: August 20th, 2017, 3:51 pm I agree, the abuse of cannabis by some should not hinder its access by others. The next cancer patient in my family will try this as at least part of their treatment plan (if I have anything to do with it), and I don't want to have to jump through hoops, pay exorbitant prices, or move to a different state to use a plant I can grow myself. BTW, I used to be of the opposing viewpoint, so I understand both sides of the issue. But now I have seen the light.
I was on the opposite side too tell we tried everything to help my son with his autism and a lds therapist friend of mine told me of how one of his clients who had autism parents started giving him cbd oil and it was having a amazing effect on his client.
So we after researching it tryed it and it was amazing. My son who is 7 now at 5 had a 3 word vocabulary. After 6 month with cbd he was a normal kid that could sing his abcs and was speaking.

Crackers
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by Crackers »

Ezra wrote: August 20th, 2017, 5:32 pm
Crackers wrote: August 20th, 2017, 3:51 pm I agree, the abuse of cannabis by some should not hinder its access by others. The next cancer patient in my family will try this as at least part of their treatment plan (if I have anything to do with it), and I don't want to have to jump through hoops, pay exorbitant prices, or move to a different state to use a plant I can grow myself. BTW, I used to be of the opposing viewpoint, so I understand both sides of the issue. But now I have seen the light.
I was on the opposite side too tell we tried everything to help my son with his autism and a lds therapist friend of mine told me of how one of his clients who had autism parents started giving him cbd oil and it was having a amazing effect on his client.
So we after researching it tryed it and it was amazing. My son who is 7 now at 5 had a 3 word vocabulary. After 6 month with cbd he was a normal kid that could sing his abcs and was speaking.
Beautiful. I am so happy for you! I am sure you share this story with as many as you can. Keep sharing!

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Original_Intent
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by Original_Intent »

I'd say the OP is a case of confirmation bias.

gardener4life
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by gardener4life »

You know 20 years ago people were deathly afraid of marijuana, if they were good people. Now everyone is going way out of their way to protect and defend it just like people call good evil and evil good. That's really the proof that marijauna is no good. If it's so good, why does everyone get so upset trying to defend it? You don't need to tell people a good fruit tastes good, unless you are conning people.

Marijauna causes a lot of problems and IS still dangerous. There's no such thing as a good vice drug. The rationalization that people have to say that its good because its not one of the 'bad drugs' is getting to be insane.

We just have to accept that we will look forward to the resurrection. Why are we looking forward to the resurrection? Because our bodies weaken and get sick. Taking marijauna WILL absolutely blind you to feeling the spirit. This I testify in Jesus name to you. You have been warned.

eddie
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by eddie »

gardener4life wrote: August 20th, 2017, 7:29 pm You know 20 years ago people were deathly afraid of marijuana, if they were good people. Now everyone is going way out of their way to protect and defend it just like people call good evil and evil good. That's really the proof that marijauna is no good. If it's so good, why does everyone get so upset trying to defend it? You don't need to tell people a good fruit tastes good, unless you are conning people.

Marijauna causes a lot of problems and IS still dangerous. There's no such thing as a good vice drug. The rationalization that people have to say that its good because its not one of the 'bad drugs' is getting to be insane.

We just have to accept that we will look forward to the resurrection. Why are we looking forward to the resurrection? Because our bodies weaken and get sick. Taking marijauna WILL absolutely blind you to feeling the spirit. This I testify in Jesus name to you. You have been warned.
AMEN

One big problem with MJ advocacy is the refusal of most supporters to admit that there are down sides of the drug. I recall being made fun of because we don't drink coffee or smoke cigarettes, thankfully, I listened.

Sasquatch
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

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gardener4life wrote: You know 20 years ago people were deathly afraid of marijuana, if they were good people. Now everyone is going way out of their way to protect and defend it just like people call good evil and evil good. That's really the proof that marijauna is no good. If it's so good, why does everyone get so upset trying to defend it? You don't need to tell people a good fruit tastes good, unless you are conning people.

Marijauna causes a lot of problems and IS still dangerous. There's no such thing as a good vice drug. The rationalization that people have to say that its good because its not one of the 'bad drugs' is getting to be insane.

We just have to accept that we will look forward to the resurrection. Why are we looking forward to the resurrection? Because our bodies weaken and get sick. Taking marijauna WILL absolutely blind you to feeling the spirit. This I testify in Jesus name to you. You have been warned.
I don't think anyone here is arguing that recreational marijuana is good or healthy, because it certainly isn't. The fact remains, though, that it may have very beneficial effects if used properly as medicine and the cannabis plant, of course, has a very extensive history as a crop in this country that effecively ended when cannabis prohibition was strengthened after WWII. Also, consider the actions of one of the main figures behind the outlawing of cannabis, Harry J Anslinger (who headed the Federal Bureau of Narcotics). He had no stance on marijuana until the prohibition of alcohol ended in 1933. Then, he began searching for evidence that the influence of marijuana contributed to crime, gathering dubious sources and ignoring the objections of dozens of doctors who claimed otherwise. Then he teamed up with William Randolph Hearst to impress the public of the dangers of "marihuana" and ultimately bring cannabis under federal control. Marijuana was an obscure drug before it was demonized by a mass media campaign in the late 1930s (when the notorious Reefer Madness was filmed) and to most people, it was simply hemp. Ironically, it may have become a staple rec. drug because Anslinger made such a fuss about it.

So yes, many people were deathly afraid of marijuana 20 years ago, and many still are, but it's just a plant. It can be misused to one's harm, but it also has a multitude of good applications as well. Many people are also deathly afraid of guns, which have been used to kill untold millions and still kill people daily. But there are also plenty of people (plenty of whom hate cannabis) who use guns and recognize their importance, because a gun has correct uses, for self-defense, sporting, and hunting, but a gun is still a weapon design to kill. Cannabis, on the other hand, is not designed to kill, and has many good uses (medicine, nutrition, fuel, fabric, etc.), so I would argue that it, by nature, is fundamentally better than any firearm, or other weapon. Anyway, during the Millennium, cannabis will certainly be a staple crop, used correctly of course. I doubt weapons will be of much use, though.

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MikeMaillet
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by MikeMaillet »

Here we go again :-(

It does not matter whether cannabis is good or bad, and this topic could be argued for years with no end of the discussion in sight. What matters is that there are people who want to have laws passed to make it illegal. The question one needs to ask is whether or not we agree with having someone killed for the "sin" of growing or consuming a plant. If it is against the law and some knuckle dragger with a badge and a gun tries to arrest me for "breaking the law", then I risk getting tasered or shot if I resist what I consider to be a violation of my freedom, wherein I have not committed a crime. Countless millions have consumed this plant without any adverse effect. Why not pass laws on junk food? Most LDS wards I have attended are filled with overweight people. Obesity is a sin but not a crime!!! Can you imagine sending a father to jail and leaving his wife alone to take care of their family for the sin of consuming a Twinkie? This is exactly what is happening with cannabis.

The use of force to control morality is immoral in itself and comes from Satan. WhatI find most discouraging is that so many latter-day saints are supportive of government efforts to punish those who may consume a plant. The role of government is to protect our freedoms and liberties and anything above this is evil, period!

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markharr
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by markharr »

Show me in the constitution where it gives the government authority to regulate what I take into my body or grow in my garden.

No I am not defending recreational drug use, nor am I a recreational drug user. I just recognize when my liberties are being trampled on. The government always abuses the power we give it. If we give it the power to regulate what you take into your body on things like this, they will eventually abuse it to the point where they are telling you you can't consume things like Sugar because it's bad for you.

Yes, I understand that the flip side of this is that some people will abuse their free agency. That has always happened and will always happen in a free society. There is no way to prevent people from abusing their free agency without adopting Satan's plan.

eddie
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by eddie »

" Countless millions have consumed this plant without any adverse effect."

Could it be the father who consumed a Twinkie was having the munchies? :ymparty:

" Having someone killed for the sin of consuming a plant," I wouldn't put anything past our Government!

I believe we are talking about regulating this drug, take a peek
at the problems Colorado has since making Marijuana illegal.

Marijuana may be less dangerous than some drugs, but is it safe, I believe even our church leaders have suggested more research be done.

I for one, do believe that people who buy Twinkies should be weighed and have a prescription! If they buy Twinkies illegally they should be put
before a firing squad...and watch them eat Twinkies.

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skmo
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by skmo »

gardener4life wrote: August 20th, 2017, 7:29 pm You know 20 years ago people were deathly afraid of marijuana, if they were good blinded people.
Fixed it for you.
:italics added:

For people who don't buy into Harry Anslinger's and William Randolf Hearst's “Reefer makes darkies think they’re as good as white men” and “marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes” lines, it's a drug, plain and simple. No worse than most, not nearly as harmful as many others. Big business made sure it didn't encroach on profits by spreading racism and fear about it. It certainly has been shown to have qualities just like other drugs that can be very effective when used as prescribed by a medical professional.
Now everyone is going way out of their way to protect and defend it just like people call good evil and evil good.
Nice blanket way for people to avoid having to think for themselves. That kind of argument stinks of blind zealotry.
If it's so good, why does everyone get so upset trying to defend it?
If it's the only thing proven to bring relief to suffering, and deceitful people still perpetuate lies that force suffering people to be denied something that will help alleviate pain, I'd say they're justified in getting mad. You have the right to force yourself to suffer, and you even have the right to demand children under you suffer if you're their parent and you're unwilling to give them help if they need it. However, your rights stop WAY before someone else's suffering does. All of this still happens because ignorant people allow lies to continue to be perpetuated that started with greed in mind, lies that preyed on hate and racism in people.
You don't need to tell people a good fruit tastes good, unless you are conning people.
When your government gets in bed with rich people to conspire to tell you that a fruit is a poison that will actually put your family "in risk of being hurt or raped by darkies" and people still believe it, it's definitely time to do some actual research into who is being conned.
Marijauna causes a lot of problems and IS still dangerous. There's no such thing as a good vice drug.
Oh absolutely. It annoys me that people are allowed to choose to use alcohol recreationally, yet it's not my right to rob them of their agency. If their actions as a result of alcohol hurt me or my family I know they'll be punished under the law, but we still have liquor stores all over.
The rationalization that people have to say that its good because its not one of the 'bad drugs' is getting to be insane.
Agreed, to a point. I say it's good when used medicinally as prescribed by a doctor for healing purposes. The same is true of opiates, psilocybin, and even cocaine. However, it's also undeniable that marijuana is FAR less dangerous than those others are. I would also make the case that marijuana is less dangerous than alcohol is, and statistics proves me correct from all around the world.
Taking marijauna WILL absolutely blind you to feeling the spirit.
Remove absolutely and replace 'will' with 'usually will' and I'll agree with you. It has demonstrated and documentable proof of great value in some cases. If you're taking it legitimately as a doctor would prescribe, I have no problem saying that the Spirit will still speak to you when you are living righteously. Use it for fun or for the heck of it and I agree the Spirit will not abide in you.

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skmo
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by skmo »

eddie wrote: August 20th, 2017, 8:08 pm One big problem with MJ advocacy is the refusal of most supporters to admit that there are down sides of the drug.
I don't see that happening unless it's by 14 year olds who want to blaze up. Even the most ardent advocates I've heard say it's no more dangerous than alcohol, and there are certainly statistics that prove them correct. We've seen that even Cherry Coke and Popeye's Fried Chicken can be dangerous based on the overwhelming jump in not only obesity, but morbid obesity in this country.

I can honestly say I've never used marijuana in my life, and I don't see that changing even if it becomes legal. However, the cost to our society is growing far to high to bear, not to mention the problem people have who legitimately need access for medical purposes.

freedomforall
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by freedomforall »

What would Jesus say and do?

Ezra
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by Ezra »

freedomforall wrote: August 21st, 2017, 3:47 pm What would Jesus say and do?
Well he created it. He would use it as he intended is my guess. He would also teach others the importance of following his example in using it as it's intended. Not to abuse it and why.

Crackers
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by Crackers »

eddie wrote: August 20th, 2017, 8:08 pm
gardener4life wrote: August 20th, 2017, 7:29 pm You know 20 years ago people were deathly afraid of marijuana, if they were good people. Now everyone is going way out of their way to protect and defend it just like people call good evil and evil good. That's really the proof that marijauna is no good. If it's so good, why does everyone get so upset trying to defend it? You don't need to tell people a good fruit tastes good, unless you are conning people.

Marijauna causes a lot of problems and IS still dangerous. There's no such thing as a good vice drug. The rationalization that people have to say that its good because its not one of the 'bad drugs' is getting to be insane.

We just have to accept that we will look forward to the resurrection. Why are we looking forward to the resurrection? Because our bodies weaken and get sick. Taking marijauna WILL absolutely blind you to feeling the spirit. This I testify in Jesus name to you. You have been warned.
AMEN

One big problem with MJ advocacy is the refusal of most supporters to admit that there are down sides of the drug. I recall being made fun of because we don't drink coffee or smoke cigarettes, thankfully, I listened.
If you will read the various posts on here and on similar threads in support of cannabis in some form or another, you will see that likely no one (on this forum) is advocating for recreational usage. Medical use and/or decriminalization are the ideas supported. No one is stating that the misuse of cannabis is good. Everyone appears to agree that there is a downside to widespread cannabis use/abuse in society. Please do not generalize or assume we don't see the potential downside of widespread cannabis use in society, or assert that we are calling evil "good."

As stated, I used to be on your side. ;) This is because I DO see the disadvantages of widespread access, recreational use and abuse. I am not ignorant of these things, and I see problems that have arisen in places like Colorado and Oregon. However, my gut and my spirit cry out for freedom. The Word of Wisdom supports the medicinal use of herbs. There is plenty of evidence that supports cannabis as either primary or adjunct medical treatment for a variety of medical conditions. I desire unfettered access for those who need it (and it is my personal opinion that they should not have to PROVE their need to anyone). Yes, we will likely see an increase in its use (and abuse) with eased access, and while I care about the well being of those people who will suffer because of it, I do not think that should trump the liberty of individuals who need access to cannabis for legitimate reasons.

Please do not think think that people who support some level or another of cannabis availability are much different from you. I am discovering plenty of good, TBM who think this way. Grandparents, mothers of sick children, freedom lovers and ward leaders are all in the ranks.

JohnnyL
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by JohnnyL »

Yes, marijuana can kill. Mostly in secondary ways, like when I saw a girl who slammed into a few cars from behind. It's not a "safe" drug, just a safer drug.

However, as said, M can't even compare with alcohol in damage. Remember when M was low on the criminal list, and cocaine way up high? Now, it's reversed--how did that happen? I think it had to do with socioeconomics.

Then there's the difference between cannabis and hemp, which is why cannabis was banned in the first place--to find a reason to ban hemp along with it. Hemp was too strong a competitor for the oil (and therefore plastic) industry.

JohnnyL
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by JohnnyL »

markharr wrote: August 21st, 2017, 7:54 am There is no way to prevent people from abusing their free agency without adopting Satan's plan.
Education, persuasion based on fact, acceptance, etc., could help a lot.

freedomforall
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by freedomforall »

JohnnyL wrote: August 22nd, 2017, 10:07 am
markharr wrote: August 21st, 2017, 7:54 am There is no way to prevent people from abusing their free agency without adopting Satan's plan.
Education, persuasion based on fact, acceptance, etc., could help a lot.
Refraining from its use is much, much better. It like beer or whiskey, or some other potentially habit forming substance....if one never takes the first one, one never has to worry about a second. And this I lived by while in Vietnam. MJ was prevalent.

Spaced_Out
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by Spaced_Out »

freedomforall wrote: August 22nd, 2017, 10:58 pm
JohnnyL wrote: August 22nd, 2017, 10:07 am
markharr wrote: August 21st, 2017, 7:54 am There is no way to prevent people from abusing their free agency without adopting Satan's plan.
Education, persuasion based on fact, acceptance, etc., could help a lot.
Refraining from its use is much, much better. It like beer or whiskey, or some other potentially habit forming substance....if one never takes the first one, one never has to worry about a second. And this I lived by while in Vietnam. MJ was prevalent.
Agree, it is also mostly the spiritual aspect of it. Breaking the key elements of the Word of wisdom usually leads to other sins like chastity, drug dependency, theft etc.. and driving a vehicle under influence endangering other peoples lives.
No way one can have the HG as a companion if you mind is numbed by drugs. Cannabis often leads to other more stronger drug use, very dangerous, like saying millions of people have and do view porn, but don't look at the spiritual damage that it does.

Number one cause of death in the US for persons under 50y is due to drug abuse, it is not simply a random event - it is now being called a national emergency in the US> The hospitals are full of drug patience that are violent and take up scares resources, putting a big strain on medical facilities.

Spaced_Out
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by Spaced_Out »

JohnnyL wrote: August 22nd, 2017, 10:07 am
markharr wrote: August 21st, 2017, 7:54 am There is no way to prevent people from abusing their free agency without adopting Satan's plan.
Education, persuasion based on fact, acceptance, etc., could help a lot.
You think cannabis will be available as a recreational drug during the millennium, the same with pornography etc... these things will all be banned and illegal. Free agency has limits, the church to my knowledge supported the alcohol prohibition that was in the US. But people were too wicked for its implementation so society just continually lowers standards and justifies it.

Baysimove
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by Baysimove »

That has been abused and cause the death of your son. That's really sad.

JohnnyL
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Re: Marijuana killed our Son

Post by JohnnyL »

Spaced_Out wrote: August 23rd, 2017, 5:06 am
JohnnyL wrote: August 22nd, 2017, 10:07 am
markharr wrote: August 21st, 2017, 7:54 am There is no way to prevent people from abusing their free agency without adopting Satan's plan.
Education, persuasion based on fact, acceptance, etc., could help a lot.
You think cannabis will be available as a recreational drug during the millennium, the same with pornography etc... these things will all be banned and illegal. Free agency has limits, the church to my knowledge supported the alcohol prohibition that was in the US. But people were too wicked for its implementation so society just continually lowers standards and justifies it.
The idea of Prohibition was great, but the reality of banning something was what usually happens: it made things worse. Maybe I'm wrong, but... I'd like to see it.
Last edited by JohnnyL on August 23rd, 2017, 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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