Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

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ajax
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Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by ajax »

"And the worst of this atomic bomb tragedy is not that not only did the people of the United States not rise up in protest against this savagery, not only did it not shock us to read of this wholesale destruction of men, women, and children, and cripples, but that it actually drew from the nation at large a general approval of this fiendish butchery." - J Reuben Clark

Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents
http://sheldonfreeassociation.blogspot. ... cents.html
Today [Aug 6] marks the 72nd anniversary of U.S. President Harry Truman's atomic bombing of Hiroshima, Japan. The atomic bombing of Nagasaki took place three days later in 1945. Some 90,000-166,000 individuals were killed in Hiroshima. The Nagasaki bombing killed 39,000-80,000 human beings. (It has come to my attention that the U.S. military bombed Tokyo on Aug. 14--after destroying Hiroshima and Nagasaki and after Emperor Hirohito expressed his readiness to surrender.)

There isn't much to be said about those unspeakable atrocities against civilians that hasn't been said many times before. The U.S. government never needed atomic bombs to commit mass murder, but it dropped them anyway. (Remember this when judging the official U.S. moralistic stance toward Iran.) Its "conventional" weapons have been potent enough. (See the earlier firebombing of Tokyo.) Nor did it need the bombs to persuade Japan to surrender; the Japanese government had been suing for peace. The U.S. government may not have used atomic weapons since 1945, but it has not yet given up mass murder as a political/military tactic. Presidents and presidential candidates are still expected to say that, with respect to nuclear weapons, "no options are off the table."

Mario Rizzo has pointed out that Americans were upset by the murder of 3,000 people on 9/11 yet seem not to be bothered that "their" government murdered many more Japanese civilians in two days. Many more died as a consequence of the bombings. Conservatives, ironically, were among the earliest critics of Truman's mass murder. It's also worth noting that the top military leaders of the day opposed the use of atomic bombs.

As Harry Truman once said, "I don't give 'em hell. I just drop A-bombs on their cities and they think it's hell." (Okay, he didn't really say that, but he might as well have.)

Some people still see the A-bombs as the only alternative to invasion, which would have cost many more civilian lives. Now there's the fallacy of the false alternative in dying color. Why couldn't the U.S. military have called it a day and gone home? Why the assumption that the state must destroy and conquer its "enemy"? Why demand unconditional surrender? (To back up a step, why go to war against Japan at all? Pearl Harbor was the result of systematic, intentional provocation -- as Herbert Hoover and others pointed out at the time) -- perhaps with Roosevelt's foreknowledge. A government less concerned with a rival for its and its allies' colonial possessions might have not gotten involved.)

Rad Geek People's Daily has a poignant post here. Rad says: "As far as I am aware, the atomic bombing of the Hiroshima city center, which deliberately targeted a civilian center and killed over half of the people living in the city, remains the deadliest act of terrorism in the history of the world."

Other things to read: Anthony Gregory’s “Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the US Terror State,” David Henderson’s “Remembering Hiroshima,” and G.E.M. Anscombe's "Mr. Truman's Decree."

Finally, if you read nothing else on this subject, read Ralph Raico's article here.

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Elizabeth
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by Elizabeth »

Japan was the aggressor. Many defenders from their aggression were tortured, attacked, starved by the Japanese. The Japanese bombed Darwin Australia in an attack which resulted in greater destruction than their attack on Pearl Harbour, but for some reason was kept quiet and not publicised as was the attack on Pearl Harbour. Prior to their attacks Japan was receiving aid whilst they used their resources to built a military to attack those who were handing out aid to them. The aggressor should receive retaliation for their aggression.

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ajax
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

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Elizabeth wrote: August 11th, 2017, 10:49 am Japan was the aggressor. Many defenders from their aggression were tortured, attacked, starved by the Japanese. The Japanese bombed Darwin Australia in an attack which resulted in greater destruction than their attack on Pearl Harbour, but for some reason was kept quiet and not publicised as was the attack on Pearl Harbour. Prior to their attacks Japan was receiving aid whilst they used their resources to built a military to attack those who were handing out aid to them. The aggressor should receive retaliation for their aggression.
"And the worst of this atomic bomb tragedy is not that not only did the people of the United States not rise up in protest against this savagery, not only did it not shock us to read of this wholesale destruction of men, women, and children, and cripples, but that it actually drew from the nation at large a general approval of this fiendish butchery." - J Reuben Clark

Mormon 3:
9 And now, because of this great thing which my people, the Nephites, had done, they began to boast in their own strength, and began to swear before the heavens that they would avenge themselves of the blood of their brethren who had been slain by their enemies.

10 And they did swear by the heavens, and also by the throne of God, that they would go up to battle against their enemies, and would cut them off from the face of the land.

14 And when they had sworn by all that had been forbidden them by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, that they would go up unto their enemies to battle, and avenge themselves of the blood of their brethren

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captainfearnot
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by captainfearnot »

Elizabeth wrote: August 11th, 2017, 10:49 am The aggressor should receive retaliation for their aggression.
Just like Jesus taught.

Silver
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by Silver »

Elizabeth wrote: August 11th, 2017, 10:49 am Japan was the aggressor. Many defenders from their aggression were tortured, attacked, starved by the Japanese. The Japanese bombed Darwin Australia in an attack which resulted in greater destruction than their attack on Pearl Harbour, but for some reason was kept quiet and not publicised as was the attack on Pearl Harbour. Prior to their attacks Japan was receiving aid whilst they used their resources to built a military to attack those who were handing out aid to them. The aggressor should receive retaliation for their aggression.
Elizabeth, are you willing to retaliate against England, France, Denmark, The Netherlands, Germany and Spain also? All of those countries had colonies in Africa and Asia. All of those countries sent troops to their colonies who killed the inhabitants indiscriminately. How are you able to overlook atrocities done by so-called civilized people of the West, while spewing hate for your fellow man in the Middle and Far East?

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markharr
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by markharr »

Great topic.

It's easy to judge the choices of others when you aren't the one who has millions of lives that are dependent upon your every decision.

Silver
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by Silver »

markharr wrote: August 11th, 2017, 11:18 am Great topic.

It's easy to judge the choices of others when you aren't the one who has millions of lives that are dependent upon your every decision.
This throwaway comment of yours is illogical. Followed to its natural conclusion, it would mean that nobody can ever look at any situation and judge for themselves if the decision made there was proper or improper.

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markharr
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

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Silver wrote: August 11th, 2017, 11:33 am
markharr wrote: August 11th, 2017, 11:18 am Great topic.

It's easy to judge the choices of others when you aren't the one who has millions of lives that are dependent upon your every decision.
This throwaway comment of yours is illogical. Followed to its natural conclusion, it would mean that nobody can ever look at any situation and judge for themselves if the decision made there was proper or improper.
Actually it's perfectly logical. I'm not going to judge someone for a decision they made when I wasn't there to know the circumstances that led to it. I'll leave that up to the savior. .

Silver
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by Silver »

markharr wrote: August 11th, 2017, 11:53 am
Silver wrote: August 11th, 2017, 11:33 am
markharr wrote: August 11th, 2017, 11:18 am Great topic.

It's easy to judge the choices of others when you aren't the one who has millions of lives that are dependent upon your every decision.
This throwaway comment of yours is illogical. Followed to its natural conclusion, it would mean that nobody can ever look at any situation and judge for themselves if the decision made there was proper or improper.
Actually it's perfectly logical. I'm not going to judge someone for a decision they made when I wasn't there to know the circumstances that led to it. I'll leave that up to the savior. .
That's just lame, mark. Your new comment could be interpreted to mean that you can't even look at a toothless meth addict lying in the gutter and decide for yourself that you won't ever use illicit drugs.
Last edited by Silver on August 11th, 2017, 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Silver
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by Silver »

It's so sad that any Latter Day Saint could come down on the side of it was OK to nuke a few hundred thousand innocent people to death or lives of pain and suffering. Of course that applies to all the other myriad ways mankind brutalizes each other.

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markharr
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by markharr »

Silver wrote: August 11th, 2017, 12:01 pm
markharr wrote: August 11th, 2017, 11:53 am
Silver wrote: August 11th, 2017, 11:33 am
markharr wrote: August 11th, 2017, 11:18 am Great topic.

It's easy to judge the choices of others when you aren't the one who has millions of lives that are dependent upon your every decision.
This throwaway comment of yours is illogical. Followed to its natural conclusion, it would mean that nobody can ever look at any situation and judge for themselves if the decision made there was proper or improper.
Actually it's perfectly logical. I'm not going to judge someone for a decision they made when I wasn't there to know the circumstances that led to it. I'll leave that up to the savior. .
That's just lame, mark. Your new comment could be interpreted to mean that you can't even look at a toothless meth addict lying in the gutter and decide for yourself that you won't ever use illicit drugs.

your only covering the side of history that supports your narrative. yes Truman killed hundreds of thousands with the nuke and the firebombing of Tokyo. Truman made a call that he hoped would prevent us from having to invade Japan where there was a risk of loss of life for hundreds of thousands if not millions more.

You don't know his heart and therefore can't judge him. Only the savior knows his heart and what his motives were when he made that decision.

sushi_chef
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by sushi_chef »

as usual case of sushi_s hunches-wise those a-bombs were detonated on the ground, most closest to the truth!!

Image
looks those fire parts came from the ground and upward, yet in the data photo in hiroshima memorial museum those were changed/erased.

http://www.unmultimedia.org/photo/detai ... =647/64723
http://a-bombdb.pcf.city.hiroshima.jp/p ... 869/227873
:-B

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markharr
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by markharr »

sushi_chef wrote: August 11th, 2017, 12:46 pm as usual case of sushi_s hunches-wise those a-bombs were detonated on the ground, most closest to the truth!!

Image
looks those fire parts came from the ground and upward, yet in the data photo in hiroshima memorial museum those were changed/erased.

http://www.unmultimedia.org/photo/detai ... =647/64723
http://a-bombdb.pcf.city.hiroshima.jp/p ... 869/227873
:-B
I'm confused.

Are you suggesting that the bombs weren't dropped but were either buried under the ground and detonated there, or moved into the city and detonated on the ground?

sushi_chef
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by sushi_chef »

as far as read so far, those were set/moved on the ground and then detonated.

also shidenkai pilot mr honda(1923 - ) who flew over hiroshima at that time and somehow milaculously bore the shockwave says in the interview he did not see b-29 and says thinks bomb wasnt dropped and was ignited on the ground.

shidenkai https://search.yahoo.co.jp/image/search ... 0shidenkai

:-B

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markharr
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

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sushi_chef wrote: August 11th, 2017, 1:06 pm as far as read so far, those were set/moved on the ground and then detonated.

also shidenkai pilot mr honda(1923 - ) who flew over hiroshima at that time and somehow milaculously bore the shockwave says in the interview he did not see b-29 and says thinks bomb wasnt dropped and was ignited on the ground.

shidenkai https://search.yahoo.co.jp/image/search ... 0shidenkai

:-B
Doesn't make a lot of sense. You're telling me that someone risked life and limb to sneak a five ton bomb into Japan undetected so that they could detonate it on the ground when they had perfectly good B-29 bombers?

Why would they do that? What possible benefit could there be in doing that?

sushi_chef
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by sushi_chef »

urrr, some say part of them were made in japan, and/or then were shipped in somehow.

einstein letter --- recommending using ship
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/manhattan- ... raph.htm#1

they work for the same agenda : world government

:-B

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markharr
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by markharr »

sushi_chef wrote: August 11th, 2017, 1:24 pm urrr, some say part of them were made in japan, and/or then were shipped in somehow.

einstein letter --- recommending using ship
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/manhattan- ... raph.htm#1

they work for the same agenda : world government

:-B

How does the testimony of this one, or handful of people overcome the testimony of thousands who worked on the Manhattan project, saw the trinity test, or in some other way participated in the development of the A bomb?

sushi_chef
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by sushi_chef »

some japanese scientists had had some success then like dr yukawa(1907 - 1981), dr nishina....

nishina abomb
https://search.yahoo.co.jp/search?ei=UT ... na%20abomb


also, kinda....
dwayne williams (spelling might not correct - - - looks gone from www) he is lds from utah, he saved some pow right before nagasaki abomb, in that secret mission, his ship was piloted by a japanese imperial navy ship in the nagasaki bay.... so on.
he made a movie, not sure the title, death of atomic bomb, in university of utah.

:-B

sushi_chef
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by sushi_chef »

correction :
movie... - - - - >>> a documentary film made by casey williams about his father dwaynes recollection of landing nagasaki as a member of the rescue mission of pow at the night of aug 9 abomb nagasaki. the aircraft carrier was piloted by the imperial navys ship so as to avoid mines....

second rescue mission was on aug 15....

admitted broke the oath to keep it secret...

and he casey was then u of u student.... too bad looks gone from www....

of course this is not about ground detonation, but at least shows some secrecy, collab....

:-B

sushi_chef
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by sushi_chef »

one more....

its called "Genbaku Shi: Killed by the Atomic Bomb (1994)"

"A.M.P.A.S. 1994 Best Documentary. Click on link to open offical Academy list of past winners found at www.oscars.com Casey G. Williams is listed on page 17 for Genbaku Shi: Killed by the Atomic Bomb

Student Academy Awards .... Gold Medal: Genbaku Shi: Killed by the Atomic Bomb, Casey G. Williams – University of Utah;
"
https://search.yahoo.co.jp/search?ei=UT ... mb%20(1994
:-B

sushi_chef
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by sushi_chef »

sushi_ recants/retracts hiroshima/nagasaki ground detonation beliefs/sayings.

found/read some eyewitnesses. now sushi_ believes those.

looks like this ground detonation stuff is fairly new, came out into www around when president obamas hiroshima visit(may 2016).

feels back to normal....

:-B

sushi_chef
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by sushi_chef »

oops sushi_ recants that part : "looks like this ground detonation stuff is fairly new, came out into www around when president obamas hiroshima visit(may 2016)."

ground detonation stuff has been around since 2014 at the latest...

so, now epic center for hiroshima is in the air, whereas nagasakis ground detonation....that should be the one.

:-B

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Thinker
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by Thinker »

Bumping this topic - important to remember history.

Photos: Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Before and After the Bombs
Image
http://www.history.com/news/hiroshima-n ... fore-after

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TheDuke
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by TheDuke »

Thank you for reminding me. I will THANK GOD again tonight for Pres Truman (one of the few Dem presidents I can thank). For taking the fight to Japan to end the war. Surely I would not have been here if the US had to invade Japan one island at a time as my dad was just a bit too young in early 1945 to be in the Army, but if the war had gone on another year or so and given how terribly brutal the Japs were to their enemies, he would surely have died before I was born.

GOD THANKYOU FOR THE A-BOMB and saving my dad!

And BTW I would have rather 1M of the initial aggressors die vs. even 10 innocent Americans, Brits, French or other allies. Sorry, but I don't think anyone here would have comprehended the horror of trying to burn out of foxholes a people that would rather die for their emperor god than surrender.

AJAX: tired, tired, tired of your anti-US, commie support threads. AND none of the Japanese by 1940 were innocent. they had 30 years of killing everyone they felt was inferior (Chinese, Korean, Phillipean, etc....)

762X545
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Re: Truman, A-Bombs, and the Killing of Innocents

Post by 762X545 »

Elizabeth wrote: August 11th, 2017, 10:49 am Japan was the aggressor. Many defenders from their aggression were tortured, attacked, starved by the Japanese. The Japanese bombed Darwin Australia in an attack which resulted in greater destruction than their attack on Pearl Harbour, but for some reason was kept quiet and not publicised as was the attack on Pearl Harbour. Prior to their attacks Japan was receiving aid whilst they used their resources to built a military to attack those who were handing out aid to them. The aggressor should receive retaliation for their aggression.
Nonsense. How do you justify the dead innocents people in Iraq, Libya, Vietnam, Afghanistan and South America who did nothing to America. Never attacked us, never even cared about us much less wanted to do anyone any harm? Am I to be held accountable for the evil acts of my government when I cannot do anything what so ever about them? I know you probably believe the propaganda that America is this purely wholesome nation who never attacks or kills any foreign nation without provocation or justification. A career in the military told me a completely different story.

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