What would you do?

[markharr]

I wonder... What would you do?

(Edited to add) This scenario, of course, presupposes that our intelligence somehow missed all of the communication, movement, and preparation necessary to pull off such a thing and we were caught completely unawares.

Yep, because they never miss anything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

That's your answer? That's fine. I get it. You ask the questions and pick apart the answers. I really was just curious to know if you had a plan.

I'm not a military commander or a politician and don't claim to be one. I don't have any intel on North Korea's military capabilities. I don't know what I would do. The point of this excercise was to show the armchair presidents on here that it isn't as simple as they claim it is.

[iWriteStuff]

I'm not a military commander or a politician. I don't have any intel on North Korea's military capabilities. I don't know what I would do. The point of this excercise was to show the armchair presidents on here that it isn't as simple as they claim it is.

Or, maybe it's exactly like I said it was in post #2 on this thread:

Trump's approval rating up after tough North Korea talk, new poll shows

President Donald Trump’s approval rating jumped to 45 percent in the days following the president suggesting U.S. military action against North Korea, a poll released Friday shows.

Trump’s approval rating increased from 39 percent last week, according to a daily presidential tracking poll by conservative-leaning Rasmussen Reports.

The president’s approval rating is now at 37 percent, according to the non-partisan Gallup poll, with a new report scheduled for Monday.

Trump’s predecessor, former President Barack Obama, had an approval rating of 54 percentage at roughly the same point in his presidency.

The Rasmussen poll shows Trump’s approval rating increased after North Korean leader Kim Jung un threatened a missile strike on the nearby island of Guam, a U.S. territory with an American military base. And Trump responded Tuesday by saying that such action would be met with “fire, fury and frankly power the likes of which this world has never seen before.”

In the ensuring days, Trump continued the tough talk -- including him saying the United States is “locked and loaded" -- despite calls for him to tone down such rhetoric to avoid a war.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08 ... shows.html

trumpoval.jpg (25.01 KiB) Viewed 849 times

Both leaders are trying to redeem their public image by saber rattling and tough talk. Plus THAAD. We were never in any danger. The only people in danger are the politicians who are accomplishing nothing in DC. Hence the distraction and ratings drive.

But whatever. Your armchair looks different than mine.

[skmo]

The point of this excercise was to show the armchair presidents on here that it isn't as simple as they claim it is.

Oh, I'm quite certain it could be if the president and the military wanted to fight it all out. They're North Korea for heaven's sake. I maintain an earlier position I took, that my Boy Scout troop from the 1970s could take North Korea with one patrol handling combat, one patrol handling cooking detail, and one patrol playing Capture the Flag while they wait to go in and police the area for trash after it's over.

Okay, hyperbole aside, One B1B, one Ohio sub, a single squadron of FA-18 Hornets, and a couple of Burke-class cruisers could take out almost all of N. Korea's military in 3 days from the start. The question comes in how much do we want to demonstrate our capabilities? Russia is still our enemy, so is China. China has largely embraced capitalism, having seen that Communism is still the stupidest idea since Custer decided he didn't need to take any Gatling Guns or the additional troops he was recommended to take. However, many still see us as enemies which is not likely to change anytime soon.

Same with Russia. Even with as popular as Putin has become with many "conservative" Americans, in many ways he's still seen as a Russian thug. Our relationship with Russia certainly has warmed since when I was in elementary school doing emergency drills in class under our desks. However, no one's under the illusion that warmth is enough to toast a slice of bread or even soften butter.

I don't think the internal political issues are a concern. Many liberals will still be opposed to military action and the current administration, many conservatives will still cry "Kill 'em all let God sort 'em out." International relations will matter, but I think the biggest concern is not tipping off other countries what we have and how effective it might be.

[Irrelevant]

I wonder... What would you do?

(Edited to add) This scenario, of course, presupposes that our intelligence somehow missed all of the communication, movement, and preparation necessary to pull off such a thing and we were caught completely unawares.

Yep, because they never miss anything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

That's your answer? That's fine. I get it. You ask the questions and pick apart the answers. I really was just curious to know if you had a plan.

I'm not a military commander or a politician. Almost one in the same these days ;)I don't have any intel on North Korea's military capabilities. They are far more capable than most Americans give them credit for and should not be dismissed so easily. I don't know what I would do. I disagree with the scenario to begin with as we would not find out about a launch only after it is in the air. The point of this excercise was to show the armchair presidents on here that it isn't as simple as they claim it is. I feel like my hands are somewhat tied in this conversation because I do not want to cross, or even get near the line. I have a good understanding of this topic. I will say, however, we do not want war with North Korea. Given the abundance of open source intel, I feel comfortable enough saying that at the first sign of real threat, Seoul will be toast. I won't go into detail but you can expect millions of casualties within hours. It makes my stomach turn when I hear people talk about "taking Kim out" or "putting him in his place" or any form of "pre-emptive" anything. We've never seen blood like we would see in that war, on both sides- let's not kid ourselves. (Us in general.)

Edited- "valuable" should have read "capable". Darn that predictive text!

[Ezra]

8 minutes. Sweet. Good thing as president I actually brought the troops all home to take care of America frist. So bombs away. No worries

[Silver]

Yep, because they never miss anything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

That's your answer? That's fine. I get it. You ask the questions and pick apart the answers. I really was just curious to know if you had a plan.

I'm not a military commander or a politician. Almost one in the same these days ;)I don't have any intel on North Korea's military capabilities. They are far more valuable than most Americans give them credit for and should not be dismissed so easily. I don't know what I would do. I disagree with the scenario to begin with as we would not find out about a launch only after it is in the air. The point of this excercise was to show the armchair presidents on here that it isn't as simple as they claim it is. I feel like my hands are somewhat tied in this conversation because I do not want to cross, or even get near the line. I have a good understanding of this topic. I will say, however, we do not want war with North Korea. Given the abundance of open source intel, I feel comfortable enough saying that at the first sign of real threat, Seoul will be toast. I won't go into detail but you can expect millions of casualties within hours. It makes my stomach turn when I hear people talk about "taking Kim out" or "putting him in his place" or any form of "pre-emptive" anything. We've never seen blood like we would see in that war, on both sides- let's not kid ourselves. (Us in general.)

Thank you for giving the discussion some legitimacy and for the good dose of reality. Did you know that the US attacked Korea back in 1866 and again in 1871? We killed hundreds of them. Japan had been attacked and overwhelmed by US forces a decade and a half earlier by Commodore Perry. The US has long considered its duty to force others into trading with us. We set up bases without permission and then blame the citizens of that country if they feel some patriotic stirrings and animosity towards us. One-sided, Pharisaical, close-minded, haughtiness like that will eventually lead to blowback. Sackcloth and ashes.

[Sirocco]

build a wall

[Irrelevant]

build a wall

=)) =)) =))
The biggest wall. The best wall. Believe me, you've never seen a wall like the one we'll build between North Korea and Guam. Believe me. And we'll make little Kim pay for it! Believe me.

[markharr]

Yep, because they never miss anything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

That's your answer? That's fine. I get it. You ask the questions and pick apart the answers. I really was just curious to know if you had a plan.

I'm not a military commander or a politician. Almost one in the same these days ;)I don't have any intel on North Korea's military capabilities. They are far more capable than most Americans give them credit for and should not be dismissed so easily. I don't know what I would do. I disagree with the scenario to begin with as we would not find out about a launch only after it is in the air. The point of this excercise was to show the armchair presidents on here that it isn't as simple as they claim it is. I feel like my hands are somewhat tied in this conversation because I do not want to cross, or even get near the line. I have a good understanding of this topic. I will say, however, we do not want war with North Korea. Given the abundance of open source intel, I feel comfortable enough saying that at the first sign of real threat, Seoul will be toast. I won't go into detail but you can expect millions of casualties within hours. It makes my stomach turn when I hear people talk about "taking Kim out" or "putting him in his place" or any form of "pre-emptive" anything. We've never seen blood like we would see in that war, on both sides- let's not kid ourselves. (Us in general.)

Edited- "valuable" should have read "capable". Darn that predictive text!

I wasn't on here claiming to know more about foreign policy than our president and his advisers who actually have all of the intelligence.

And with these latest developments it looks like Trump and his advisers just might have made the right call.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/north-kore ... 1502751054

[Silver]

That's your answer? That's fine. I get it. You ask the questions and pick apart the answers. I really was just curious to know if you had a plan.

I'm not a military commander or a politician. Almost one in the same these days ;)I don't have any intel on North Korea's military capabilities. They are far more capable than most Americans give them credit for and should not be dismissed so easily. I don't know what I would do. I disagree with the scenario to begin with as we would not find out about a launch only after it is in the air. The point of this excercise was to show the armchair presidents on here that it isn't as simple as they claim it is. I feel like my hands are somewhat tied in this conversation because I do not want to cross, or even get near the line. I have a good understanding of this topic. I will say, however, we do not want war with North Korea. Given the abundance of open source intel, I feel comfortable enough saying that at the first sign of real threat, Seoul will be toast. I won't go into detail but you can expect millions of casualties within hours. It makes my stomach turn when I hear people talk about "taking Kim out" or "putting him in his place" or any form of "pre-emptive" anything. We've never seen blood like we would see in that war, on both sides- let's not kid ourselves. (Us in general.)

Edited- "valuable" should have read "capable". Darn that predictive text!

I wasn't on here claiming to know more about foreign policy than our president and his advisers who actually have all of the intelligence.

And with these latest developments it looks like Trump and his advisers just might have made the right call.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/north-kore ... 1502751054

Only in a world where morals and charity have been forgotten could the biggest bully on the block threatening a 98-pound weakling be the right call.

[iWriteStuff]

Only in a world where morals and charity have been forgotten could the biggest bully on the block threatening a 98-pound weakling be the right call.

Headlines read: "Dog Chases Squirrel Up Tree While House Burns - Spectators Cheer."

[Irrelevant]

I will say that it looks like the situation is diffused for now. I don't like his approach but I guess it "worked".

Now when winter rolls around I anticipate things going in a different direction as they're in a terrible drought which means even worse famine. It's bad there now, even by their standards, but it will only get worse in the coming months.

[skmo]

Only in a world where morals and charity have been forgotten could the biggest bully on the block threatening a 98-pound weakling be the right call.

When the 98 pound weakling is a teenager mentality psychopath who runs around in his house filled with 35 pound, underfed 5 year olds who are unable to escape, all the while screaming that he's the world heavyweight champ so he can bask in their fearfully delivered pretend worship, people who believe he's the victim need help.

When you factor in that he's got a vial of live plague virus which he's going to blow up in his next door neighbor's house, if people complain about the fact that almost EVERYONE on the block has warned him to stop being an idiot, and especially the largest of the neighbor who's been a policeman (willingly or unwillingly) for most of his adult life, well, those people complaining really are in need.

[markharr]

So it looks like what Trump did here was to use the threat of additional trade restrictions with China to pressure China into putting pressure on North Korea. China in turn threatened North Korea that they would stop importing north Korean coal and seafood if they didn't knock it off.

The tough talk on the part of Trump was necessary to show both China and North Korea that he was serious after years of empty threats from other presidents.

It looks very much like he's employing a similar strategy against Venezuela who has just requested talks with the US due to Trump's threats of military intervention.

I would say all in all it wasn't a bad strategy with the following exceptions.

Did nothing to stop the human rights crisis in North Korea
Does nothing to address the trade deficit with China. In fact, it makes us dependent on it to keep North Korea reigned in.

[brianj]

In the 1960s President Kennedy threatened nuclear war, going so far as to load nuclear weapons on aircraft and have the pilots sit in the cockpits with the jets running. Within minutes of an order those jets would have been in the air, flying toward the Soviet Union. For this game of brinksmanship JFK is considered a hero.

In the 2010s President Trump threatened extreme retaliation if North Korea attacked the south or the US. He was nowhere near as provocative as JFK and threatened retaliation as opposed to a first strike, and for doing something less than what JFK did he is being castigated.

Come on, lefitsts. You can't have it both ways! Either support Trump or condemn Kennedy!

[Irrelevant]

Isn't it great that we're threatening military action in South America now, too!? Can we please just fight everyone? That would be fantastic.

[Silver]

What might possibly be the difference between Kennedy threatening the great big conglomeration of USSR then and...

ussr.gif (11.27 KiB) Viewed 587 times

Trump threatening the little bitty country of North Korea now?

North Korea Map.jpg (98.91 KiB) Viewed 587 times

Can anybody figure that one out?

It's sad that the warmongering neo-cons would even brag about Trump, the murderer, standing up to a country like that. I guess when you're a dead-man walking country like the US just hanging on to power because of a Federal Reserve that continues to allow it to have a large military via deficit financing, then all you can bluster about is killing brown people in some severely underdeveloped country.

And everybody calls Kim crazy.

[lundbaek]

North Korea is capable of killing lot of people. I think it is still pretty much unknown to what extent China and Russia would back up North Korea if it were attacked by the U.S.A.

[Silver]

America has killed millions of brown people since Papa Bush's Desert Storm either through direct attacks or via sanctions -- more than any other country. The world is no safer now than it was then. It would be insanity to stay on the same course. What would I do? Mind my own business and bring all the troops home. The kind of leadership we're displaying now and over the past several presidencies is chock full of Gadiantonism.

[skmo]

America has killed millions of brown people since...

What is your fascination with "Brown people?" You really ought to work on eliminating that racist streak of yours, it's quite unattractive. I know you're going to screech "I'm not racist! That's what I'm saying all of YOU are!" You're wrong. You're focusing on what the leftist agenda wants you to. Are people sensitive to Muslims and illegal immigration from Mexico? Yes! Is it because they're racists? NO!

It's because drugs and criminals are sneaking across the borders and because of the CLEARLY demonstrated hatred of Western culture, and specifically U.S. culture among Wahabbist Muslims. I say we should solve Mexico issues with new drug laws, more regulated entry/exit procedures, and specific qualifications on social services for citizens vs. non-citizens.

We demonstrated a destruction of many of our enemies in Afghanistan. Great. Come home now. We never should have gone into Iraq the second time, the first time is debatable but it's past and gone. I do think we were too soft on finding out why the "credible information" about a non-existent threat, a lot of people died unnecessarily on both sides, but on the other hand a treacherous tyrant was removed from power, one who was known to have his driver stop and take a woman off the street, use her for a night, and send her throat-slit corpse down the Tigris.

I'm in full support of bringing our troops home. I'm also in full support of keeping them at full readiness to defend us. Not go on kill missions to get rick, but chubby-tubby Kim-Boy demonstrated a capability and made a credible threat. A response was appropriate.

[Baysimove]

My first campaign is war on drugs! Absolutely..