Understanding ISLAM

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Rensai
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Re: Understanding ISLAM

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Silver
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Re: Understanding ISLAM

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Rensai wrote: August 7th, 2017, 11:31 am
https://www.lds.org/refugees
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Silver
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Re: Understanding ISLAM

Post by Silver »

Post 9/11.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2002/03/a-li ... s?lang=eng

MARCH 2002 A LIFE AMONG MUSLIMS
A Life among Muslims
By Orin D. Parker

For 19 years, my wife, Rita, and I and our five children lived and worked in Muslim communities of the Middle East, developing close and lasting friendships with these sensitive and loving people. We found that we had much in common with them and a great deal indeed to learn from them. I’ve read Islamic poetry and some Islamic history and, of course, the Koran. But it is really in studying the people themselves that we learned about this remarkable faith.

The Family and Prayer

We found our Muslim friends especially interested in the Latter-day Saint concept of family and family government and the codes of conduct and rules of diet and health similar to their own. We, in turn, were extremely interested in their customs, particularly those pertaining to the family. We were impressed by their use of religious language in all of their greetings. We were impressed by the way in which Muslim families ask God to bless them as they go about their daily business. Public meetings we attended also opened with a prayer: “In the name of God, the munificent and merciful.” This prayer is also said before a Muslim family sits down to eat, as well as on many other occasions. It is even inscribed at the top of government stationery and included in the formalities of government, education, and culture, at least in those countries with which I am familiar. Many of their informal greetings also invoke Allah, the name of God, and their thanks are always expressed to Allah.

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skmo
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Re: Understanding ISLAM

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Islam is not compatible with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Of course, neither are Catholicism, Lutheranism, Shinto, or Zen Buddhism, but Islam is trying harder in some places of the world to be much more actively opposed to it. There are many good, decent people who practice the early and more peaceful teachings of Muhammad, but even among people I know who are Muslim there is acknowledgment that there is a growing percentage of Muslims who believe there are two kinds of people: Those who submit to Islam and those who are conquered by it.

By no means is that a universal belief, but even some of my Muslim friends are seeing an increase in this idea. It's kind of like when I was growing up and heard that Mormons were selfish, vain, judgmental and back-biting people. I grew up in an area where a Stake had an overall population of a couple million people with a few thousand of those being Mormons. I didn't understand Utah culture until I moved here, and I soon understood some of the rumors I heard. it was very sad for me to see many of the things done by people who claimed to be LDS but exhibited little in the way of behavior I grew up understanding to be LDS. I finally came to understand that every rose has thorns, and while the thorns took nothing away from the beauty of the rose, the beauty did nothing to lessen the pain of the thorn's prick. All I could do was to strengthen my own commitment and decide I wouldn't allow the strengths or failures of others (nor their poor treatment of me as a non-Zion heathen) impact my commitment to my testimony.

I know for a fact that many, doubtless VERY many Muslims are very good people. However, as we approach the end of days, I also have little to no doubt that the schism between cultures and religions and beliefs will grow. This is not license to mistreat others or disrespect their right to hold their own beliefs, but ultimately people have to choose their own way. People who follow Christ should be led by His example and His Word. The Gospel of Christ should be spread with love. Islam, ultimately, will be spread by the sword.

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Sirocco
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Re: Understanding ISLAM

Post by Sirocco »

Silver wrote: August 7th, 2017, 11:48 am
Rensai wrote: August 7th, 2017, 11:31 am
https://www.lds.org/refugees

refugee.jpg
Where you in this instance, is Islam

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acanais92
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Re: Understanding ISLAM

Post by acanais92 »

Silver wrote: August 4th, 2017, 8:14 am OK, I could only stomach about two minutes of the video in the original post. First, let me remind everyone to never trust a man wearing a bow-tie. So this man, all by himself, is pretending to have a debate about the particulars of Islam by defining language and practices mutuelles Entreprise. What he didn't admit before my nonsense meter went to maximum level is that not all Muslims are extremists. He tries to paint them as such because, says he, Islam makes no distinction.

Might I suggest, once again, that we clean the inner vessel first before we go and accuse 1.8 billion mostly innocent people of some sort of sin?

When Jesus said love everyone, did he really mean everyone except 1.8 billion Muslims?
Well, there are many people who claim to know everything about religion when they do not know anything. Yet they enter your home without any embarrassment.

Silver
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Re: Understanding ISLAM

Post by Silver »

acanais92 wrote: August 14th, 2017, 6:59 am
Silver wrote: August 4th, 2017, 8:14 am OK, I could only stomach about two minutes of the video in the original post. First, let me remind everyone to never trust a man wearing a bow-tie. So this man, all by himself, is pretending to have a debate about the particulars of Islam by defining language and practices mutuelles Entreprise. What he didn't admit before my nonsense meter went to maximum level is that not all Muslims are extremists. He tries to paint them as such because, says he, Islam makes no distinction.

Might I suggest, once again, that we clean the inner vessel first before we go and accuse 1.8 billion mostly innocent people of some sort of sin?

When Jesus said love everyone, did he really mean everyone except 1.8 billion Muslims?
Well, there are many people who claim to know everything about religion when they do not know anything. Yet they enter your home without any embarrassment.
Would you kindly flesh out your comment a bit? I don't understand the point you're trying to make.


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skmo
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Re: Understanding ISLAM

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Interesting article, but there are a few points I want to focus on:
...historically, Muslims have learned to live more or less in peace with Hindus...
No. Historically, Muslims have discovered there are some people they cannot conquer with the word or the sword, therefore they have ceased to push the issue until such time as they believe they can have a reasonable chance to win. The people of India have historically proven to be impossible to subjugate completely. The hatred between Hindus and Muslims, though will not end until there is a foundational change in the world.

There are several similarities listed, but one can find similarities between born again Christians and San Franpsycho liberals if one looks, but it doesn't change the fact that ultimately at their root, they hate each other. As difficult as it may be to see in the behavior of some members at times, the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ is rooted in Christ's love and free agency to choose or reject the gospel, which will not be forced on people. Islam is rooted in the desire to spread Islam by any means to everyone in the world whether they accept it or not. Some of Islam speaks of mercy and love and peace, mainly much of the earlier writings when Muhammad was younger and growing his religion. In order to do that it was necessary for Islam to be appealing to the good nature in people. The later parts included more of the sword spreading the truth, and the ultimatum that everyone but Muslims should be looked down on until they convert.

Look at how the two religions treat people who abandon faith. A "Jack Mormon might be looked down on by his neighbors, a practice which church leaders have been increasingly critical of lately. Perhaps good little Molly Mormon Moms would tell their precious darlings they can't go play with the bad people on the corner (a sin for which she will face justice, one day.) Compare that to an Imam issuing a fatwah for the beheading of a member who had stopped going to the Mosque.

In the LDS faith we are told we need to love our brethren and spread Christ's word. It is clear from the leadership of the church that faith, prayer, gentleness, meekness, long suffering, and love are the only "weapons" we should use to spread the gospel and strengthen the saints. Doing so in other, more selfish ways are not permitted, and everything that can be done to remind members of their need for compassion is being done. Many Muslims live Islam as a way of life because many of the policies demonstrate good qualities. However, ultimately the religion believes that everyone must be converted or forced to convert. If kindness, deceit, or threat of violence is how it must be done, it must be done.

As I said before, Mormonism is at odds with religions like Catholicism, Lutheranism, and even atheism. However, in today's world, only Islam is a religion which uses "convert or die" as their method in many places of the world. That is at odds with the most fundamental belief of love and free agency.

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David13
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Re: Understanding ISLAM

Post by David13 »

skmo wrote: August 14th, 2017, 10:13 pm
Interesting article, but there are a few points I want to focus on:
...historically, Muslims have learned to live more or less in peace with Hindus...
No. Historically, Muslims have discovered there are some people they cannot conquer with the word or the sword, therefore they have ceased to push the issue until such time as they believe they can have a reasonable chance to win. The people of India have historically proven to be impossible to subjugate completely. The hatred between Hindus and Muslims, though will not end until there is a foundational change in the world.

There are several similarities listed, but one can find similarities between born again Christians and San Franpsycho liberals if one looks, but it doesn't change the fact that ultimately at their root, they hate each other. As difficult as it may be to see in the behavior of some members at times, the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ is rooted in Christ's love and free agency to choose or reject the gospel, which will not be forced on people. Islam is rooted in the desire to spread Islam by any means to everyone in the world whether they accept it or not. Some of Islam speaks of mercy and love and peace, mainly much of the earlier writings when Muhammad was younger and growing his religion. In order to do that it was necessary for Islam to be appealing to the good nature in people. The later parts included more of the sword spreading the truth, and the ultimatum that everyone but Muslims should be looked down on until they convert.

Look at how the two religions treat people who abandon faith. A "Jack Mormon might be looked down on by his neighbors, a practice which church leaders have been increasingly critical of lately. Perhaps good little Molly Mormon Moms would tell their precious darlings they can't go play with the bad people on the corner (a sin for which she will face justice, one day.) Compare that to an Imam issuing a fatwah for the beheading of a member who had stopped going to the Mosque.

In the LDS faith we are told we need to love our brethren and spread Christ's word. It is clear from the leadership of the church that faith, prayer, gentleness, meekness, long suffering, and love are the only "weapons" we should use to spread the gospel and strengthen the saints. Doing so in other, more selfish ways are not permitted, and everything that can be done to remind members of their need for compassion is being done. Many Muslims live Islam as a way of life because many of the policies demonstrate good qualities. However, ultimately the religion believes that everyone must be converted or forced to convert. If kindness, deceit, or threat of violence is how it must be done, it must be done.

As I said before, Mormonism is at odds with religions like Catholicism, Lutheranism, and even atheism. However, in today's world, only Islam is a religion which uses "convert or die" as their method in many places of the world. That is at odds with the most fundamental belief of love and free agency.

Which is exactly why it is at basics, not a religion, but a political system.
dc

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skmo
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Re: Understanding ISLAM

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David13 wrote: August 15th, 2017, 11:20 am Which is exactly why it is at basics, not a religion, but a political system.
And written by a man who understood that not only did a religion offer a better chance to succeed in ruling over people than a political system did, but it was also a much better way to ensure his future legacy was built. People forgot Ramses, King Minos, Cyrus, other than historians. Whole bodies of people remembered Abraham, Moses, Christ. He wanted that.

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David13
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Re: Understanding ISLAM

Post by David13 »

skmo wrote: August 15th, 2017, 3:27 pm
David13 wrote: August 15th, 2017, 11:20 am Which is exactly why it is at basics, not a religion, but a political system.
And written by a man who understood that not only did a religion offer a better chance to succeed in ruling over people than a political system did, but it was also a much better way to ensure his future legacy was built. People forgot Ramses, King Minos, Cyrus, other than historians. Whole bodies of people remembered Abraham, Moses, Christ. He wanted that.
It's easier to slip it into various places if it's called a religion, purports to be a religion.
dc

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