Mysteries of the Kingdom

[freedomforall]

The ADAM-GOD DOCTRINE IS FALSE. NO ARGUMENT NEEDED. NO BAITING REQUIRED. NO AMOUNT OF INSULTS CAN OR WILL CHANGE MY TESTIMONY. PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH WILL ONLY MAKE YOU LOOK BAD. YOUR TACTICS ARE THE VERY SAME AS THE PREVIOUS POSTERS COMING HERE TO START A CONFLICT. FRANKLY, I BELIEVE THIS DOCTRINE TO BE OTHER THAN ORTHODOX LDS BELIEF AND OF A FUNDAMENTALIST POINT OF VIEW. AND, APPARENTLY YOU LACK ENOUGH RESPECT FOR MY POSITION OF HAVING ENOUGH OF THIS TOPIC THAT NOW I FIGURE YOU ARE ONLY HERE TO GET FOLLOWERS, NOT TO ACTUALLY HEAR ARGUMENTS OF DIFFERENCE, FOR YOU HAVE NO INTENTION OF CHANGING YOUR MIND WHATSOEVER, RATHER TO JAM JS AND BY DOWN OUR THROATS, ALL THE WHILE LETTING SCRIPTURE GATHER DUST ON YOUR SHELF.
IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW MY ARGUMENTS, SEARCH THE FORUM. THERE ARE PLENTY. I HAVE NO INCLINATION OF REPEATING MYSELF EVERY TIME A NEW GUY COMES ALONG.

He makes his intentions clear.
He falsely accuses me of insult.
He falsely accuses me of putting words in his mouth.
He falsely accuses me of staring the conflict.
He falsely accuses me of baiting him.
He falsely accuses me of not respecting his position of having enough of this topic.
He says that if I want to know his arguments I should search for them, I don't.
He says I let the scriptures collect dust, I quote them.
He says I'm only here to get followers, I've said repeatedly I was looking for those who understood and wanted to discuss.
He has denied testimony after testimony from true messengers and will continue to do so.
If there are any still here that want something other, speek up. (Speak)
If there is no one here that wants open, honest discussion, I will go away and leave the topic to the likes of him.

This type of post is baiting, but, I'm going to fool you and not respond to these comments. I really do not have to help fuel this well known pattern.

Your critics have spoken for me.

[Doug]

The ADAM-GOD DOCTRINE IS FALSE. NO ARGUMENT NEEDED. NO BAITING REQUIRED. NO AMOUNT OF INSULTS CAN OR WILL CHANGE MY TESTIMONY. PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH WILL ONLY MAKE YOU LOOK BAD. YOUR TACTICS ARE THE VERY SAME AS THE PREVIOUS POSTERS COMING HERE TO START A CONFLICT. FRANKLY, I BELIEVE THIS DOCTRINE TO BE OTHER THAN ORTHODOX LDS BELIEF AND OF A FUNDAMENTALIST POINT OF VIEW. AND, APPARENTLY YOU LACK ENOUGH RESPECT FOR MY POSITION OF HAVING ENOUGH OF THIS TOPIC THAT NOW I FIGURE YOU ARE ONLY HERE TO GET FOLLOWERS, NOT TO ACTUALLY HEAR ARGUMENTS OF DIFFERENCE, FOR YOU HAVE NO INTENTION OF CHANGING YOUR MIND WHATSOEVER, RATHER TO JAM JS AND BY DOWN OUR THROATS, ALL THE WHILE LETTING SCRIPTURE GATHER DUST ON YOUR SHELF.
IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW MY ARGUMENTS, SEARCH THE FORUM. THERE ARE PLENTY. I HAVE NO INCLINATION OF REPEATING MYSELF EVERY TIME A NEW GUY COMES ALONG.

He makes his intentions clear.
He falsely accuses me of insult.
He falsely accuses me of putting words in his mouth.
He falsely accuses me of staring the conflict.
He falsely accuses me of baiting him.
He falsely accuses me of not respecting his position of having enough of this topic.
He says that if I want to know his arguments I should search for them, I don't.
He says I let the scriptures collect dust, I quote them.
He says I'm only here to get followers, I've said repeatedly I was looking for those who understood and wanted to discuss.
He has denied testimony after testimony from true messengers and will continue to do so.
If there are any still here that want something other, speek up. (Speak)
If there is no one here that wants open, honest discussion, I will go away and leave the topic to the likes of him.

This is baiting, but, I'm going to fool you and not respond to these comments. I really do not have to help fuel this well known pattern.

If it is baiting, it started with you.

[freedomforall]

The ADAM-GOD DOCTRINE IS FALSE. NO ARGUMENT NEEDED. NO BAITING REQUIRED. NO AMOUNT OF INSULTS CAN OR WILL CHANGE MY TESTIMONY. PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH WILL ONLY MAKE YOU LOOK BAD. YOUR TACTICS ARE THE VERY SAME AS THE PREVIOUS POSTERS COMING HERE TO START A CONFLICT. FRANKLY, I BELIEVE THIS DOCTRINE TO BE OTHER THAN ORTHODOX LDS BELIEF AND OF A FUNDAMENTALIST POINT OF VIEW. AND, APPARENTLY YOU LACK ENOUGH RESPECT FOR MY POSITION OF HAVING ENOUGH OF THIS TOPIC THAT NOW I FIGURE YOU ARE ONLY HERE TO GET FOLLOWERS, NOT TO ACTUALLY HEAR ARGUMENTS OF DIFFERENCE, FOR YOU HAVE NO INTENTION OF CHANGING YOUR MIND WHATSOEVER, RATHER TO JAM JS AND BY DOWN OUR THROATS, ALL THE WHILE LETTING SCRIPTURE GATHER DUST ON YOUR SHELF.
IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW MY ARGUMENTS, SEARCH THE FORUM. THERE ARE PLENTY. I HAVE NO INCLINATION OF REPEATING MYSELF EVERY TIME A NEW GUY COMES ALONG.

He makes his intentions clear.
He falsely accuses me of insult.
He falsely accuses me of putting words in his mouth.
He falsely accuses me of staring the conflict.
He falsely accuses me of baiting him.
He falsely accuses me of not respecting his position of having enough of this topic.
He says that if I want to know his arguments I should search for them, I don't.
He says I let the scriptures collect dust, I quote them.
He says I'm only here to get followers, I've said repeatedly I was looking for those who understood and wanted to discuss.
He has denied testimony after testimony from true messengers and will continue to do so.
If there are any still here that want something other, speek up. (Speak)
If there is no one here that wants open, honest discussion, I will go away and leave the topic to the likes of him.

This is baiting, but, I'm going to fool you and not respond to these comments. I really do not have to help fuel this well known pattern.

If it is baiting, it started with you.

Well, I learned how to handle myself during my last life here on earth, or was it my first one? Oh,well, which ever one it was. Or, maybe it was all a bad dream. Darn.

This isn't my forum! So, go for it. Have fun and enjoy. All is well in Zion! :-w

[Doug]

The ADAM-GOD DOCTRINE IS FALSE. NO ARGUMENT NEEDED. NO BAITING REQUIRED. NO AMOUNT OF INSULTS CAN OR WILL CHANGE MY TESTIMONY. PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH WILL ONLY MAKE YOU LOOK BAD. YOUR TACTICS ARE THE VERY SAME AS THE PREVIOUS POSTERS COMING HERE TO START A CONFLICT. FRANKLY, I BELIEVE THIS DOCTRINE TO BE OTHER THAN ORTHODOX LDS BELIEF AND OF A FUNDAMENTALIST POINT OF VIEW. AND, APPARENTLY YOU LACK ENOUGH RESPECT FOR MY POSITION OF HAVING ENOUGH OF THIS TOPIC THAT NOW I FIGURE YOU ARE ONLY HERE TO GET FOLLOWERS, NOT TO ACTUALLY HEAR ARGUMENTS OF DIFFERENCE, FOR YOU HAVE NO INTENTION OF CHANGING YOUR MIND WHATSOEVER, RATHER TO JAM JS AND BY DOWN OUR THROATS, ALL THE WHILE LETTING SCRIPTURE GATHER DUST ON YOUR SHELF.
IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW MY ARGUMENTS, SEARCH THE FORUM. THERE ARE PLENTY. I HAVE NO INCLINATION OF REPEATING MYSELF EVERY TIME A NEW GUY COMES ALONG.

He makes his intentions clear.
He falsely accuses me of insult.
He falsely accuses me of putting words in his mouth.
He falsely accuses me of staring the conflict.
He falsely accuses me of baiting him.
He falsely accuses me of not respecting his position of having enough of this topic.
He says that if I want to know his arguments I should search for them, I don't.
He says I let the scriptures collect dust, I quote them.
He says I'm only here to get followers, I've said repeatedly I was looking for those who understood and wanted to discuss.
He has denied testimony after testimony from true messengers and will continue to do so.
If there are any still here that want something other, speek up. (Speak)
If there is no one here that wants open, honest discussion, I will go away and leave the topic to the likes of him.

This type of post is baiting, but, I'm going to fool you and not respond to these comments. I really do not have to help fuel this well known pattern.

Your critics have spoken for me.

You mis represent aiaris, go look at it, we resolved things between us.
it was sandman4 that first broight up Adam God - not me - but ok with me
your claims are false as usual.

And you still have not answered to your outrageios shouting rant.
even your name shows hypocracy freedomforall, what a joke.

Again, if what I am, what I say is so offensive to you, why not just go away
who made you the topic cop

who made you the keeper of only true doctrine.
you have yet to respond to any of the testimonies from the prophets
are they false testimonies?
did I make them all up
or are they all lying

i provided a whole bunch of scriptures that you just ignore
all you want is to just shut down any kind of discussion that is offensive to you
that is not freedom for all, you are a fake, you are freedomforthoseiagreewith

if you are the best of this list, then I want none of it or you.

[Doug]

alaris,
Your claim of a unique perspective that is in direct opposition to the teachings of more than one of the prophets of God,
and your assertion that I am not on equal grounds with you until I pray over such unique doctrines is a claim of stewardship
over both me and the prophets of God.

I stand by my words.
I hove no intention of standing anywhere near the grounds you stand on in this matter.
I prefer the grounds established by true messengers from my Father, Adam, God.
If you want to let bygones be bygones, just be gone.
There is a fine line between having honest differences of opinion as to what the prophets meant,
another thing altogether to have your own unique doctrine in opposition to what has been said.

Anyone is welcome, including you and freedomforall, to express any oppinion you have on any topic you chose.
But make no judjements on anyone based on how little or how much they accept or reject what you say.
That is what I mean when I say be gone, not you, just your judgements of where I or anyone else stands relative to either you or God.

I AM a strongly oppinionated person, and sometimes I jump to bad opinions. But the opinions I express in public
have, usually, been quite well vetted. While I understand that most of the writtings of the prophets of the restoration
are not cannonized, they are indeed "out of the best books" and I do rely on them very much and will continue to do so.
The scriptures and these writtings are that with which I back up my opinions, claims, and statements, by providing referenced quotes.
If I make a statement and don't provide a refernced quote, call me on it and I will either provide the reference or
acknowledge it as an unsubstanciated claim.

I hope that this topic will continue and that all ill will or bad feelings will disapate.

Fair enough.

[Doug]

"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There will never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation." -Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290

There it is, Brigham Young has declared it,
" If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people."
It is His testimony.

freedomforall, refute it if you can. Tell us that Brigham is a false prophet if you can.
Deny his testimoney, you certainly can
But here it is in Brigham's own words.

Yes, it is not in the canonized scripture, but it is His testimony none the less.
Did he lie, NO.
Where did he get it from, Joseph.


Argue against it all you like but it is right here in black an d white
If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people.

I believe Joseph, I believe Brigham. Joseph said it. Brigham said it.
It is true, I say it " If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people."

Deny that now will you?
Refute Joseph.
Refute Brigham.
Refute Me.
Go ahead, but I am in good company, I am in harmony with true messengers from the Father. I am in harmony the The Key Holder of this dispensation and his most faithful and loyal companion.

Here it is again, the testimony against you and your closed minedness and your unbelief.

If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people.


Go ahead, refute it to your condemnation.
Prove it false testimony, if you can.

Otherwise, take the advice offered by Dr. Phil's father, "never miss an opportunity to shut up."

I will say it again
If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people.
and again
If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people.
and again
If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people.
it does not condemn me, it exalts me and all who will embrace it.

[freedomforall]

The ADAM-GOD DOCTRINE IS FALSE. NO ARGUMENT NEEDED. NO BAITING REQUIRED. NO AMOUNT OF INSULTS CAN OR WILL CHANGE MY TESTIMONY. PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH WILL ONLY MAKE YOU LOOK BAD. YOUR TACTICS ARE THE VERY SAME AS THE PREVIOUS POSTERS COMING HERE TO START A CONFLICT. FRANKLY, I BELIEVE THIS DOCTRINE TO BE OTHER THAN ORTHODOX LDS BELIEF AND OF A FUNDAMENTALIST POINT OF VIEW. AND, APPARENTLY YOU LACK ENOUGH RESPECT FOR MY POSITION OF HAVING ENOUGH OF THIS TOPIC THAT NOW I FIGURE YOU ARE ONLY HERE TO GET FOLLOWERS, NOT TO ACTUALLY HEAR ARGUMENTS OF DIFFERENCE, FOR YOU HAVE NO INTENTION OF CHANGING YOUR MIND WHATSOEVER, RATHER TO JAM JS AND BY DOWN OUR THROATS, ALL THE WHILE LETTING SCRIPTURE GATHER DUST ON YOUR SHELF.
IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW MY ARGUMENTS, SEARCH THE FORUM. THERE ARE PLENTY. I HAVE NO INCLINATION OF REPEATING MYSELF EVERY TIME A NEW GUY COMES ALONG.

He makes his intentions clear.
He falsely accuses me of insult.
He falsely accuses me of putting words in his mouth.
He falsely accuses me of staring the conflict.
He falsely accuses me of baiting him.
He falsely accuses me of not respecting his position of having enough of this topic.
He says that if I want to know his arguments I should search for them, I don't.
He says I let the scriptures collect dust, I quote them.
He says I'm only here to get followers, I've said repeatedly I was looking for those who understood and wanted to discuss.
He has denied testimony after testimony from true messengers and will continue to do so.
If there are any still here that want something other, speek up. (Speak)
If there is no one here that wants open, honest discussion, I will go away and leave the topic to the likes of him.

This type of post is baiting, but, I'm going to fool you and not respond to these comments. I really do not have to help fuel this well known pattern.

Your critics have spoken for me.

You mis represent aiaris, go look at it, we resolved things between us.
it was sandman4 that first broight up Adam God - not me - but ok with me
your claims are false as usual.

And you still have not answered to your outrageios shouting rant.
even your name shows hypocracy freedomforall, what a joke.

Again, if what I am, what I say is so offensive to you, why not just go away
who made you the topic cop

who made you the keeper of only true doctrine.
you have yet to respond to any of the testimonies from the prophets
are they false testimonies?
did I make them all up
or are they all lying

i provided a whole bunch of scriptures that you just ignore
all you want is to just shut down any kind of discussion that is offensive to you
that is not freedom for all, you are a fake, you are freedomforthoseiagreewith

if you are the best of this list, then I want none of it or you.

:)) :)) =)) =)) =)) :)) :))

[Doug]

:)) :)) =)) =)) =)) :)) :))

in this you reveal your nature

[Doug]

If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people.

[freedomforall]

"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There will never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation." -Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290

There it is, Brigham Young has declared it,
" If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people."
It is His testimony.

freedomforall, refute it if you can. Tell us that Brigham is a false prophet if you can.
Deny his testimoney, you certainly can
But here it is in Brigham's own words.

Yes, it is not in the canonized scripture, but it is His testimony none the less.
Did he lie, NO.
Where did he get it from, Joseph.


Argue against it all you like but it is right here in black an d white
If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people.

I believe Joseph, I believe Brigham. Joseph said it. Brigham said it.
It is true, I say it " If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people."

Deny that now will you?
Refute Joseph.
Refute Brigham.
Refute Me.
Go ahead, but I am in good company, I am in harmony with true messengers from the Father. I am in harmony the The Key Holder of this dispensation and his most faithful and loyal companion.

Here it is again, the testimony against you and your closed minedness and your unbelief.

If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people.


Go ahead, refute it to your condemnation.
Prove it false testimony, if you can.

Otherwise, take the advice offered by Dr. Phil's father, "never miss an opportunity to shut up."

I will say it again
If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people.
and again
If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people.
and again
If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people.
it does not condemn me, it exalts me and all who will embrace it.

:)) :)) =)) =)) =)) :)) :))

[Doug]

"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There will never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation." -Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290

There it is, Brigham Young has declared it,
" If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people."
It is His testimony.

freedomforall, refute it if you can. Tell us that Brigham is a false prophet if you can.
Deny his testimoney, you certainly can
But here it is in Brigham's own words.

Yes, it is not in the canonized scripture, but it is His testimony none the less.
Did he lie, NO.
Where did he get it from, Joseph.


Argue against it all you like but it is right here in black an d white
If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people.

I believe Joseph, I believe Brigham. Joseph said it. Brigham said it.
It is true, I say it " If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people."

Deny that now will you?
Refute Joseph.
Refute Brigham.
Refute Me.
Go ahead, but I am in good company, I am in harmony with true messengers from the Father. I am in harmony the The Key Holder of this dispensation and his most faithful and loyal companion.

Here it is again, the testimony against you and your closed minedness and your unbelief.

If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people.


Go ahead, refute it to your condemnation.
Prove it false testimony, if you can.

Otherwise, take the advice offered by Dr. Phil's father, "never miss an opportunity to shut up."

I will say it again
If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people.
and again
If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people.
and again
If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people.
it does not condemn me, it exalts me and all who will embrace it.

:)) :)) =)) =)) =)) :)) :))

What a brilliant, insightful and enlightening response.

But,
"If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people." Brigham Young

[freedomforall]

If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people.

Even though this statement is almost fully true, it has nothing, zilch, one iota, or smidgen to do with people having their spirit and body separated (divided) again to accomplish it, even in becoming a Savior because we cannot be divided ever again, so how can a spirit take on two bodies? How can a body, already having been resurrected and exalted ever become a human and be subject to sin again? It makes no sense whatsoever. Once exalted, having gone through life and overcoming sin, we remain exalted or God would cease to be God. Scripture is clear we see no more corruption for ever and ever. This doesn't mean that we can't create a Savior and send him down to an earth to do as Jesus did. I'm not disputing that.
Can you see the problem?

[Doug]

“I tell you, when you see your Father in the Heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bore your spirit, you will see Mother Eve.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see, The Essential Brigham Young, pg. 99)

And what great insights can you add to this testimony?
Please so enlighten us as you have before.

[Doug]

If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people.

Even though this statement is almost fully true, it has nothing, zilch, one iota, or smidgen to do with people having their spirit and body separated (divided) again to accomplish it, even in becoming a Savior because we cannot be divided ever again, so how can a spirit take on two bodies? How can a body, already having been resurrected and exalted ever become a human and be subject to sin again? It makes no sense whatsoever. Once exalted, having gone through life and overcoming sin, we remain exalted or God would cease to be God. Scripture is clear we see no more corruption for ever and ever. This doesn't mean that we can't create a Savior and send him down to an earth to do as Jesus did. I'm not disputing that.
Can you see the problem?

I never said that, I have always said that Adam and Eve did not die.
Again, you make false claims. You continue to bare false witness against me.
Prove me wrong, show me the words where I have ever said "people having their spirit and body separated (divided) again to accomplish it"
I did not, you lie.

[freedomforall]

What a brilliant, insightful and enlightening response.

But,
"If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people." Brigham Young

What else can I do after being called a fake and every other thing you came up with? All I can say is, what else is there, give you roses? Maybe a pat on the head? Turn the other cheek? What?

[Doug]

“Eve -- immortal Eve -- came down to earth to become the Mother of a race. How [does she] become the Mother of a world of mortals except by herself again becoming mortal? How become mortal only by transgressing the laws of immortality? How only by ‘eating of the forbidden fruit’ by partaking of the elements of a mortal earth, in which the seed of death was everywhere scattered?…
Eve, then, came down to be the Mother of a world. Glorious Mother, capable of dying at the very beginning to give life to her offspring, that through mortality the eternal life of the Gods might be given to her sons and daughters… Did woman hesitate a moment then? Did motherhood refuse the cup for her own sake, or did she with infinite love, take it and drink for her children's sake? The Mother had plunged down, from the pinnacle of her celestial throne, to earth, to taste of death that her children might have everlasting life… A Goddess came down from her mansions of glory to bring the spirits of her children down after her, in their myriads of branches and their hundreds of generations! She was again a mortal Mother now… Eve stands, then, first—the God-Mother…” (Eliza R. Snow, Women of Mormondom, pg. 197-200)

They do not die, Adam returns Eve to their Celestial Home thus restoring both to full immortality.
Do not think, in any way, that Eves role is less than Adams.
How can anyone think anything less of women when they, repeatedly, risk all by subjecting themselves to death to provide physical bodies for her spirit children, and having complete trust and faith that her husband will sustain her through this completely selfless act.
Maybe the Atonement is the easier path.

Here are my words, now go ahead and lie some more about what I have said.

When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging!

[freedomforall]

“I tell you, when you see your Father in the Heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bore your spirit, you will see Mother Eve.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see, The Essential Brigham Young, pg. 99)

And what great insights can you add to this testimony?
Please so enlighten us as you have before.

Ya, the father of all living, even Adam, as is Eve, the mother of all living. Adam is the father of mankind, but not the Majesty on High. So what's the issue?
If Adam was our supreme God, then Christ would be his son, and if Jesus as his son were to do as his father Adam did, then he would have transgressed (sinned) and we would not be here talking about it. Christ did not transgress or sin in the least, or we would not have had a Savior. Remember that Adam sinned somewhere, sometime during his 930 year stay on earth. Christ was sin free the whole time. Therefore, Adam was not our Highest Father, and Christ was a Son by the name of Jehovah. Jehovah (Spirit) came to earth and became Jesus (Flesh), thus being Father and Son, the Eternal Father of the heaven and earth, he having created them. See Mosiah 15:1-5
We know Jesus/Jehovah had a father because Jesus was spoken to be Father when He said: This is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased, at Jesus' baptism. Also when Jesus declared: "Father, why hast thou forsaken me."

[Doug]

What a brilliant, insightful and enlightening response.

But,
"If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people." Brigham Young

What else can I do after being called a fake and every other thing you came up with? All I can say is, what else is there, give you roses? Maybe a pat on the head? Turn the other cheek? What?

Fess up!

[Doug]

freedomforall,
I plead with you to read and ponder all the quotes I have provided.
There is great understanding to be had in them.
And many more insights become available through understanding and embracing
the principles taught in these testimonies of prophets.
My soul delights in these teachings and yours can also.
This earth is all about all of us helping each other
to obtain the fullness of The Father. And that is
what I wish, that ALL of us obtain that fullness.
Please, I beg you, don't turn your back on
such beautiful doctrine, please.

[freedomforall]

“Eve -- immortal Eve -- came down to earth to become the Mother of a race. How [does she] become the Mother of a world of mortals except by herself again becoming mortal? How become mortal only by transgressing the laws of immortality? How only by ‘eating of the forbidden fruit’ by partaking of the elements of a mortal earth, in which the seed of death was everywhere scattered?…
Eve, then, came down to be the Mother of a world. Glorious Mother, capable of dying at the very beginning to give life to her offspring, that through mortality the eternal life of the Gods might be given to her sons and daughters… Did woman hesitate a moment then? Did motherhood refuse the cup for her own sake, or did she with infinite love, take it and drink for her children's sake? The Mother had plunged down, from the pinnacle of her celestial throne, to earth, to taste of death that her children might have everlasting life… A Goddess came down from her mansions of glory to bring the spirits of her children down after her, in their myriads of branches and their hundreds of generations! She was again a mortal Mother now… Eve stands, then, first—the God-Mother…” (Eliza R. Snow, Women of Mormondom, pg. 197-200)

They do not die, Adam returns Eve to their Celestial Home thus restoring both to full immortality.
Do not think, in any way, that Eves role is less than Adams.
How can anyone think anything less of women when they, repeatedly, risk all by subjecting themselves to death to provide physical bodies for her spirit children, and having complete trust and faith that her husband will sustain her through this completely selfless act.
Maybe the Atonement is the easier path.

Here are my words, now go ahead and lie some more about what I have said.

When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging!

Oh, you're real funny! :)) :)) :)) Is this all you got?

[Doug]

“I tell you, when you see your Father in the Heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bore your spirit, you will see Mother Eve.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see, The Essential Brigham Young, pg. 99)

And what great insights can you add to this testimony?
Please so enlighten us as you have before.

Ya, the father of all living, even Adam, as is Eve, the mother of all living. Adam is the father of mankind, but not the Majesty on High. So what's the issue?
If Adam was our supreme God, then Christ would be his son, and if Jesus as his son were to do as his father Adam did, then he would have transgressed (sinned) and we would not be here talking about it. Christ did not transgress or sin in the least, or we would not have had a Savior. Remember that Adam sinned somewhere, sometime during his 930 year stay on earth. Christ was sin free the whole time. Therefore, Adam was not our Highest Father, and Christ was a Son by the name of Jehovah. Jehovah (Spirit) came to earth and became Jesus (Flesh), thus being Father and Son, the Eternal Father of the heaven and earth, he having created them. See Mosiah 15:1-5
We know Jesus/Jehovah had a father because Jesus was spoken to be Father when He said: This is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased, at Jesus' baptism. Also when Jesus declared: "Father, why hast thou forsaken me."

“Adam is Michael the Archangel and he is the Father of Jesus Christ and is our God and Joseph taught this principle.” (Brigham Young, December 16, 1867, Wilford Woodruff Journal)

[freedomforall]

freedomforall,
I plead with you to read and ponder all the quotes I have provided.
There is great understanding to be had in them.
And many more insights become available through understanding and embracing
the principles taught in these testimonies of prophets.
My soul delights in these teachings and yours can also.
This earth is all about all of us helping each other
to obtain the fullness of The Father. And that is
what I wish, that ALL of us obtain that fullness.
Please, I beg you, don't turn your back on
such beautiful doctrine, please.

None of it effects my salvation, so I'll pass. I read the Book of Mormon over twenty times cover to cover and I think I have a pretty good handle on what it teaches. I just can't see insulting God by suddenly dismissing all the wonderful insights he has given me by learning something different and losing that which I know to be true. We'll simply have to agree to disagree. Can you respect that?
My testimony was hard earned and I'm not about to flip flop now at my stage of life. I've read the New Testament, Pearl of Great Price and D&C cover to cover five times each as well. Still learning, however.

[freedomforall]

“I tell you, when you see your Father in the Heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bore your spirit, you will see Mother Eve.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see, The Essential Brigham Young, pg. 99)

And what great insights can you add to this testimony?
Please so enlighten us as you have before.

Ya, the father of all living, even Adam, as is Eve, the mother of all living. Adam is the father of mankind, but not the Majesty on High. So what's the issue?
If Adam was our supreme God, then Christ would be his son, and if Jesus as his son were to do as his father Adam did, then he would have transgressed (sinned) and we would not be here talking about it. Christ did not transgress or sin in the least, or we would not have had a Savior. Remember that Adam sinned somewhere, sometime during his 930 year stay on earth. Christ was sin free the whole time. Therefore, Adam was not our Highest Father, and Christ was a Son by the name of Jehovah. Jehovah (Spirit) came to earth and became Jesus (Flesh), thus being Father and Son, the Eternal Father of the heaven and earth, he having created them. See Mosiah 15:1-5
We know Jesus/Jehovah had a father because Jesus was spoken to be Father when He said: This is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased, at Jesus' baptism. Also when Jesus declared: "Father, why hast thou forsaken me."

“Adam is Michael the Archangel and he is the Father of Jesus Christ and is our God and Joseph taught this principle.” (Brigham Young, December 16, 1867, Wilford Woodruff Journal)

Sorry, but scripture trumps any other doctrine. Ask our prophet. If it doesn't then we have no further use for the four standard works and can throw them out.

[freedomforall]

Ya, the father of all living, even Adam, as is Eve, the mother of all living. Adam is the father of mankind, but not the Majesty on High. So what's the issue?
If Adam was our supreme God, then Christ would be his son, and if Jesus as his son were to do as his father Adam did, then he would have transgressed (sinned) and we would not be here talking about it. Christ did not transgress or sin in the least, or we would not have had a Savior. Remember that Adam sinned somewhere, sometime during his 930 year stay on earth. Christ was sin free the whole time. Therefore, Adam was not our Highest Father, and Christ was a Son by the name of Jehovah. Jehovah (Spirit) came to earth and became Jesus (Flesh), thus being Father and Son, the Eternal Father of the heaven and earth, he having created them. See Mosiah 15:1-5
We know Jesus/Jehovah had a father because Jesus was spoken to be Father when He said: This is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased, at Jesus' baptism. Also when Jesus declared: "Father, why hast thou forsaken me" while on the cross.

[Doug]

And what great insights can you add to this testimony?
Please so enlighten us as you have before.

Ya, the father of all living, even Adam, as is Eve, the mother of all living. Adam is the father of mankind, but not the Majesty on High. So what's the issue?
If Adam was our supreme God, then Christ would be his son, and if Jesus as his son were to do as his father Adam did, then he would have transgressed (sinned) and we would not be here talking about it. Christ did not transgress or sin in the least, or we would not have had a Savior. Remember that Adam sinned somewhere, sometime during his 930 year stay on earth. Christ was sin free the whole time. Therefore, Adam was not our Highest Father, and Christ was a Son by the name of Jehovah. Jehovah (Spirit) came to earth and became Jesus (Flesh), thus being Father and Son, the Eternal Father of the heaven and earth, he having created them. See Mosiah 15:1-5
We know Jesus/Jehovah had a father because Jesus was spoken to be Father when He said: This is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased, at Jesus' baptism. Also when Jesus declared: "Father, why hast thou forsaken me."

“Adam is Michael the Archangel and he is the Father of Jesus Christ and is our God and Joseph taught this principle.” (Brigham Young, December 16, 1867, Wilford Woodruff Journal)

Sorry, but scripture trumps any other doctrine. Ask our prophet. If it doesn't then we have no further use for the four standard works and can throw them out.

Then you deny the need for modern revelations.
How are you going to be resurrected, It's not in the scriptures as to how to do it.

But then I guess Joseph and Brigham are not prophets, seers and revealators then,
or are they fallen and false prophets.

Sorry, Modern Revelation trumps scripture anytime.
But in this case, they are in harmony, you just won't see it.
Still denying the true messengers from The Father?