LDS Culture Problem

[markharr]

Just to add a comment, it is absolutely proven from credible sources and even LDS sources that pornography is just as much a woman problem as it is a men problem.

How so my friend?

Google Researcher: Porn Featuring Violence Against Women Is More Popular Among Women Than Men


http://dailycaller.com/2017/07/05/googl ... -than-men/

[Fiannan]

Just to add a comment, it is absolutely proven from credible sources and even LDS sources that pornography is just as much a woman problem as it is a men problem.

How so my friend?

Google Researcher: Porn Featuring Violence Against Women Is More Popular Among Women Than Men


http://dailycaller.com/2017/07/05/googl ... -than-men/

Sugar and spice, right? Of course in Europe many of the older women (40s - 60s) adopt a migrant or two...to help the young men assimilate you know. Doing good deeds you know. So full of Christian virtue...yeah, we can call it that.

[Red]

Porn is only a problem in the States and the prude are only found among Mormons and possibly some other random religious minorities (speaking only of minorities in the States). Most others don't even realize how others are dressed because they only see the person, not the flesh.

[markharr]

The only problem I have with the way LDS culture treats pornography is that we need to stop treating people who are addicted to it as these awful people who are destined for hell, and start treating them as if they have a sickness that they need help overcoming. Show them compassion, not contempt. There are people who were victimized by being exposed to it by others at a very early age before they had learned that it's even wrong or how to control those emotions and became addicted to it themselves due to that.

We have a huge problem with attribution errors in the church. We only focus on the sin while ignoring the underlying problem or circumstances that led to it in the first place that weren't always within the individuals control.

We also have a huge opioid problem in the state of Utah. I have personally lost family members to it. For some people it's their own fault, for others maybe they are trying to escape unbearable emotional or physical pain. Asking someone to read the word of wisdom and asking people to fast and pray clearly isn't enough on its own to overcome a powerful addiction that isn't just a psychological addiction it's physiological addiction

We need to give each other, and ourselves permission to not be perfect. We should all be striving for perfection and trying our hardest to live the gospel while recognizing that none of us are perfect.

[Red]

The only problem I have with the way LDS culture treats pornography is that we need to stop treating people who are addicted to it as these awful people who are destined for hell, and start treating them as if they have a sickness that they need help overcoming. Show them compassion, not contempt. There are people who were victimized by being exposed to it by others at a very early age before they had learned that it's even wrong or how to control those emotions and became addicted to it themselves due to that.

We have a huge problem with attribution errors in the church. We only focus on the sin while ignoring the underlying problem or circumstances that led to it in the first place that weren't always within the individuals control.

We also have a huge opioid problem in the state of Utah. I have personally lost family members to it. For some people it's their own fault, for others maybe they are trying to escape unbearable emotional or physical pain. Asking someone to read the word of wisdom and asking people to fast and pray clearly isn't enough on its own to overcome a powerful addiction that isn't just a psychological addiction it's physiological addiction

We need to give each other, and ourselves permission to not be perfect. We should all be striving for perfection and trying our hardest to live the gospel while recognizing that none of us are perfect.

Yes, I like your perspective. You know, they've been using similar tactics in schools for years. The power of positive behavior reinforcement is amazing. Obviously nothing works 100% of the time, but for the most part, loving people changes more behavior than judgement and condemnation could ever hope to. It's the way of the Savior.

[markharr]

The only problem I have with the way LDS culture treats pornography is that we need to stop treating people who are addicted to it as these awful people who are destined for hell, and start treating them as if they have a sickness that they need help overcoming. Show them compassion, not contempt. There are people who were victimized by being exposed to it by others at a very early age before they had learned that it's even wrong or how to control those emotions and became addicted to it themselves due to that.

We have a huge problem with attribution errors in the church. We only focus on the sin while ignoring the underlying problem or circumstances that led to it in the first place that weren't always within the individuals control.

We also have a huge opioid problem in the state of Utah. I have personally lost family members to it. For some people it's their own fault, for others maybe they are trying to escape unbearable emotional or physical pain. Asking someone to read the word of wisdom and asking people to fast and pray clearly isn't enough on its own to overcome a powerful addiction that isn't just a psychological addiction it's physiological addiction

We need to give each other, and ourselves permission to not be perfect. We should all be striving for perfection and trying our hardest to live the gospel while recognizing that none of us are perfect.

Yes, I like your perspective. You know, they've been using similar tactics in schools for years. The power of positive behavior reinforcement is amazing. Obviously nothing works 100% of the time, but for the most part, loving people changes more behavior than judgement and condemnation could ever hope to. It's the way of the Savior.

Correct, the LDS church is a religion but its also a community. Our individual strengths should be come a strength for the community and our individual weaknesses should become a weakness for the community. Build each other up, don't tear each other down.

My neighbor may neglect gathering food storage but be faithful in all other things, and an expert in finances. I may be faithful in all things but paying my tithing because I am terrible at finances. My neighbor can help me with my finances, and I can help them if they have a hardship and need some of my food storage.

I was once went to lunch with some coworkers and one of the coworkers who was driving apologized for her old car. I told her to never apologize for that again. It was commendable that she was frugal and living within her means and pointed out to her that if you did math on what she was paying per mile for transportation it was very low compared to society as a whole and that that was admirable. It's the rest of us who should be ashamed. She later came to me with tears in her eyes and thanked me and told me that she now realizes that she doesn't have to apologize for living within her means.

[Fiannan]

The only problem I have with the way LDS culture treats pornography is that we need to stop treating people who are addicted to it as these awful people who are destined for hell, and start treating them as if they have a sickness that they need help overcoming. Show them compassion, not contempt. There are people who were victimized by being exposed to it by others at a very early age before they had learned that it's even wrong or how to control those emotions and became addicted to it themselves due to that.

A study by Brigham Young University last year pointed out that it is the people's labeling of what "porn addiction" is and that people's self-perception of being addicted is more dangerous than porn itself. Most research suggests that if we apply psychology to the issue of "porn addiction" that only less that 2% of regular users or less could be considered as "addicted" in any sense of the word.

[markharr]

The only problem I have with the way LDS culture treats pornography is that we need to stop treating people who are addicted to it as these awful people who are destined for hell, and start treating them as if they have a sickness that they need help overcoming. Show them compassion, not contempt. There are people who were victimized by being exposed to it by others at a very early age before they had learned that it's even wrong or how to control those emotions and became addicted to it themselves due to that.

A study by Brigham Young University last year pointed out that it is the people's labeling of what "porn addiction" is and that people's self-perception of being addicted is more dangerous than porn itself. Most research suggests that if we apply psychology to the issue of "porn addiction" that only less that 2% of regular users or less could be considered as "addicted" in any sense of the word.

I'm not a psychologist and won't pretend to know what an addiction is from a clinical standpoint, but doing something I don't want to do but can't stop doing without outside intervention is in my opinion an addiction. Regardless of what that thing is. Does the fact that a bunch of experts don't consider it to be an addiction make it any less real to me?

When you break down the commandments to their core elements, one common element in all of them is mastery over the natural man, or mastery over ones self. That is one of the major doctrines that we are here to learn. How can you be trusted with the powers given to a god when you can't even control yourself in the mortal state? Not being able to stop yourself from doing something that you don't want to do is not mastery over ones self. Whether that's pornography, substance abuse, or even over eating.

[Fiannan]

The only problem I have with the way LDS culture treats pornography is that we need to stop treating people who are addicted to it as these awful people who are destined for hell, and start treating them as if they have a sickness that they need help overcoming. Show them compassion, not contempt. There are people who were victimized by being exposed to it by others at a very early age before they had learned that it's even wrong or how to control those emotions and became addicted to it themselves due to that.

A study by Brigham Young University last year pointed out that it is the people's labeling of what "porn addiction" is and that people's self-perception of being addicted is more dangerous than porn itself. Most research suggests that if we apply psychology to the issue of "porn addiction" that only less that 2% of regular users or less could be considered as "addicted" in any sense of the word.

I'm not a psychologist and won't pretend to know what an addiction is from a clinical standpoint, but doing something I don't want to do but can't stop doing without outside intervention is in my opinion an addiction. Regardless of what that thing is. Does the fact that a bunch of experts don't consider it to be an addiction make it any less real to me?

When you break down the commandments to their core elements, one common element in all of them is mastery over the natural man, or mastery over ones self. That is one of the major doctrines that we are here to learn. How can you be trusted with the powers given to a god when you can't even control yourself in the mortal state? Not being able to stop yourself from doing something that you don't want to do is not mastery over ones self. Whether that's pornography, substance abuse, or even over eating.

Then you agree, that it is an issue of morality and not so much psychology? I have given my reasons time and time again as to why porn is bad, but when I see the anti-porn movement in the Church (trying to do good) driving people away or even destroying marriages then that is when I speak up.

[Jonesy]

The only problem I have with the way LDS culture treats pornography is that we need to stop treating people who are addicted to it as these awful people who are destined for hell, and start treating them as if they have a sickness that they need help overcoming. Show them compassion, not contempt. There are people who were victimized by being exposed to it by others at a very early age before they had learned that it's even wrong or how to control those emotions and became addicted to it themselves due to that.

A study by Brigham Young University last year pointed out that it is the people's labeling of what "porn addiction" is and that people's self-perception of being addicted is more dangerous than porn itself. Most research suggests that if we apply psychology to the issue of "porn addiction" that only less that 2% of regular users or less could be considered as "addicted" in any sense of the word.

I'm not a psychologist and won't pretend to know what an addiction is from a clinical standpoint, but doing something I don't want to do but can't stop doing without outside intervention is in my opinion an addiction. Regardless of what that thing is. Does the fact that a bunch of experts don't consider it to be an addiction make it any less real to me?

When you break down the commandments to their core elements, one common element in all of them is mastery over the natural man, or mastery over ones self. That is one of the major doctrines that we are here to learn. How can you be trusted with the powers given to a god when you can't even control yourself in the mortal state? Not being able to stop yourself from doing something that you don't want to do is not mastery over ones self. Whether that's pornography, substance abuse, or even over eating.

Then you agree, that it is an issue of morality and not so much psychology? I have given my reasons time and time again as to why porn is bad, but when I see the anti-porn movement in the Church (trying to do good) driving people away or even destroying marriages then that is when I speak up.

Maybe I missed it somewhere already, but can you be more specific on what you see in the "anti-porn movement in the Church [that drives] people away or even [destroys] marriages"? I've seen it, but what part of it should I be aware of that is doing that?

[Fiannan]

Maybe I missed it somewhere already, but can you be more specific on what you see in the "anti-porn movement in the Church [that drives] people away or even [destroys] marriages"? I've seen it, but what part of it should I be aware of that is doing that?

Well, I would certainly never let my children watch this video:

Teaching children that pornography is as the boy says at 1:48? So when I took my children on a tour of The Hermitage Museum when they were young, and yes, there were nude paintings there, was I exposing them to pornography? Now look at what is said at 2:20. Did the people who made this video understand the danger of, even if unintended, negative suggestion??? Then of course there is the video called "Watch Your Step" which conveys a message that if you catch husband watching porn then its goodbye time. And lastly, if you tell someone that they are an addict it takes their personal responsibility away. And how do we define "porn addiction?" Psychology, even though there is no such thing as porn addiction in guidelines, would probably classify such as a form of obsession and compulsion disorder. So a woman lets her baby sit in a dirty diaper while she watches porn on the internet or a guy opens up porn sites at work, even though he is a kindergarten teacher. That could quality as a symptom. And of course spending all ones free time looking at porn is not a good way to live. However, in Church there is a view conveyed that looking at any porn any time, and any amount, makes one an addict. That is dangerous. Let's say you do have a young man who never even thought of porn but his family has a lesson in family home evening about the dangers of porn when he is ten years old. His curiosity goes up and he looks at it and thinks, "That's dumb what those naked people are doing." But then later when he is hitting puberty he thinks back to those pictures and seeks them out again. He finds them really interesting now. And then there is a lesson in Church that says that it is evil to look at porn. He is confused. He likes the things he looks up but he is told it is an evil second only to murder (a total misinterpretation of the Book of Mormon passage so often quoted). His guilt, if he feel guilt, goes through the roof. He experiences anxiety now that he has said he will not look at it ever again...but the more he is reminded of it, the more he thinks about it and the more he wants to look at it. He has two choices as he matures, avoid it or avoid who is telling him that it is evil and addictive.

[GreenDay]

I completely agree with the original poster that there is a huge culture problem and I will add judgemental problem in our church.
Some of these comments disgust me. Kick out the yw that dress immodestly??? Are you kidding me?? Isn't our church supposed to be Christ centered and Christlike? My daughters wear dresses a few inches above the knee and this is the kind of judgement that makes me sick. When I was the yw president all I wanted was for the youth to feel loved. Judgement free zone. We get so caught up on judging one another rather than being like Christ and loving everyone. My daughter is one of the most Christ like people you will ever meet and it would be your loss to pass judgement on her for having a shorter skirt. I will add that I dress modestly (and cute) and my husband is not addicted to porn smh.
Seriously get over yourselves people. This is exactly why people with weak testimonies leave the church. Imagine a non member seeing some of the comments on this thread. I would hate for one of my non member friends to think we are all like this.
My dad once said if someone walked into the church building smelling like smoke he would do the opposite of most people. He would get closer and welcome the person with open arms. This should be the case in every situation. You can't control others and what they do and wear so if it's an issue for you then learn to control your thoughts.

[GreenDay]

I will also add that I think it's silly that a guy can't wear a blue shirt and have facial hair without feeling judged. Maybe it's just my husband that feels that way but I don't think that just because you are wearing a white shirt and are clean shaven you are any more faithful and valiant than if you're not.

[marc]

The primary culture problem the LDS have is phariseeism.

[Gage]

I completely agree with the original poster that there is a huge culture problem and I will add judgemental problem in our church.
Some of these comments disgust me. Kick out the yw that dress immodestly??? Are you kidding me?? Isn't our church supposed to be Christ centered and Christlike? My daughters wear dresses a few inches above the knee and this is the kind of judgement that makes me sick. When I was the yw president all I wanted was for the youth to feel loved. Judgement free zone. We get so caught up on judging one another rather than being like Christ and loving everyone. My daughter is one of the most Christ like people you will ever meet and it would be your loss to pass judgement on her for having a shorter skirt. I will add that I dress modestly (and cute) and my husband is not addicted to porn smh.
Seriously get over yourselves people. This is exactly why people with weak testimonies leave the church. Imagine a non member seeing some of the comments on this thread. I would hate for one of my non member friends to think we are all like this.
My dad once said if someone walked into the church building smelling like smoke he would do the opposite of most people. He would get closer and welcome the person with open arms. This should be the case in every situation. You can't control others and what they do and wear so if it's an issue for you then learn to control your thoughts.

Your daughter wears short dresses to church and you wonder why people may be little uncomfortable with it or say something? I dont think so much is being judgemental as it is just "questioning". In your case it would be "why does your daughter wear such a short dress to church?" Why does she? Why does she wear something like that, that is obviously going to have a few shaking their heads, and a few staring of course, as in young men gaulking. Is it necessary for your daughter to wear such a short dress to church? Does she do it for attention? Is she at the age that she is trying to get the attention of young men? Does she thrive on the attention? I can assure you that when your daughter wears such a short dress, the first thought that comes to people's mind is not "wow she is so Christ like".

[Red]

I completely agree with the original poster that there is a huge culture problem and I will add judgemental problem in our church.
Some of these comments disgust me. Kick out the yw that dress immodestly??? Are you kidding me?? Isn't our church supposed to be Christ centered and Christlike? My daughters wear dresses a few inches above the knee and this is the kind of judgement that makes me sick. When I was the yw president all I wanted was for the youth to feel loved. Judgement free zone. We get so caught up on judging one another rather than being like Christ and loving everyone. My daughter is one of the most Christ like people you will ever meet and it would be your loss to pass judgement on her for having a shorter skirt. I will add that I dress modestly (and cute) and my husband is not addicted to porn smh.
Seriously get over yourselves people. This is exactly why people with weak testimonies leave the church. Imagine a non member seeing some of the comments on this thread. I would hate for one of my non member friends to think we are all like this.
My dad once said if someone walked into the church building smelling like smoke he would do the opposite of most people. He would get closer and welcome the person with open arms. This should be the case in every situation. You can't control others and what they do and wear so if it's an issue for you then learn to control your thoughts.

Your daughter wears short dresses to church and you wonder why people may be little uncomfortable with it or say something? I dont think so much is being judgemental as it is just "questioning". In your case it would be "why does your daughter wear such a short dress to church?" Why does she? Why does she wear something like that, that is obviously going to have a few shaking their heads, and a few staring of course, as in young men gaulking. Is it necessary for your daughter to wear such a short dress to church? Does she do it for attention? Is she at the age that she is trying to get the attention of young men? Does she thrive on the attention? I can assure you that when your daughter wears such a short dress, the first thought that comes to people's mind is not "wow she is so Christ like".

Hey Gage,

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

Matthew Chapter 7

You should probably back off and not criticize someone else's little girl.

[GreenDay]

I don't feel a need to defend my daughter. My opinion is that wearing a skirt a few inches above the knee is not "so short". What is short to you may not be to me. You are a perfect example of what I was trying to prove but sadly you missed the point.

[Red]

Regardless of how you feel, there are bullies on this forum and sometimes the moderators don't shut them down.

[Juliet]

I completely agree with the original poster that there is a huge culture problem and I will add judgemental problem in our church.
Some of these comments disgust me. Kick out the yw that dress immodestly??? Are you kidding me?? Isn't our church supposed to be Christ centered and Christlike? My daughters wear dresses a few inches above the knee and this is the kind of judgement that makes me sick. When I was the yw president all I wanted was for the youth to feel loved. Judgement free zone. We get so caught up on judging one another rather than being like Christ and loving everyone. My daughter is one of the most Christ like people you will ever meet and it would be your loss to pass judgement on her for having a shorter skirt. I will add that I dress modestly (and cute) and my husband is not addicted to porn smh.
Seriously get over yourselves people. This is exactly why people with weak testimonies leave the church. Imagine a non member seeing some of the comments on this thread. I would hate for one of my non member friends to think we are all like this.
My dad once said if someone walked into the church building smelling like smoke he would do the opposite of most people. He would get closer and welcome the person with open arms. This should be the case in every situation. You can't control others and what they do and wear so if it's an issue for you then learn to control your thoughts.

Your daughter wears short dresses to church and you wonder why people may be little uncomfortable with it or say something? I dont think so much is being judgemental as it is just "questioning". In your case it would be "why does your daughter wear such a short dress to church?" Why does she? Why does she wear something like that, that is obviously going to have a few shaking their heads, and a few staring of course, as in young men gaulking. Is it necessary for your daughter to wear such a short dress to church? Does she do it for attention? Is she at the age that she is trying to get the attention of young men? Does she thrive on the attention? I can assure you that when your daughter wears such a short dress, the first thought that comes to people's mind is not "wow she is so Christ like".

Just adding some more perspective here; not every one has 100s of dollars for which to buy clothes. Last time I went shopping, I went to Sears. There was not a knee length dress or skirt in the entire store. Every single dress and skirt went to mid thigh. But, I could easily find one over at Lands end, for $70 for just the skirt. We should be grateful to have any clothes to wear with the economy and world culture the way it is. Maybe you could help start a petition for major retailers to make skirts and clothes that are modest, because they aren't there. Next time you go shopping, look at the women's tops. How many of them could you wear without needing an undershirt to make it modest? And even the modest tops are thread bear, so you still have to wear layers. I personally cannot stand wearing layers, it is too much with all the other Mormon stuff we wear. I have taken to pinning my shirts every day so they are modest. I simply cannot find something that covers well unless it is a t-shirt, and those just don't work for women's bodies sometimes.

It is really really really hard to dress modestly. If people don't, then we have to recognize they are doing their best. I suppose we could start a donation fund or add a sewing class to Sunday School, except fabric is very expensive it usually is not frugal to make your own clothes any way.

[marc]

I can assure you that when your daughter wears such a short dress, the first thought that comes to people's mind is not "wow she is so Christ like".

Ironic. I rest my case.

[Gage]

So asking a question is being judgemental, I for one could care less how short the dress is. Doesnt bother me. I simply asked why?

[marc]

Matthew 15:1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,

2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

[Gage]

And the reason I say people are not thinking Christ like because of her dress,is because people judge us by our dress. Its sad but true. But why give them that reason. Why dress questionably? Why push limits? Why not dress as others so as not to stand out in Church? I am just trying to understand.

[marc]

And the reason I say people are not thinking Christ like because of her dress,is because people judge us by our dress. Its sad but true. But why give them that reason. Why dress questionably? Why push limits? Why not dress as others so as not to stand out in Church? I am just trying to understand.

Why ask why? Who's limits? Yours? Mine? Some Bishop's? Rather than obey God's commandments, Pharisees create traditions, handbooks, set limits, judge by those limits, cause others to then judge by those limits, forgetting all about God's commandments, thus becoming impure, unlike what Paul taught his son, Titus:

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

A short dress is just a short dress. It is the person's heart who sees anything other than a short dress. Or a tattoo. Or whatever. God created Adam and Eve butt naked, but it was the accuser who came and told them they were naked, implying they were impure and should cover themselves up because it is shameful. But God does not create impure things. Man, by the thoughts of his fallen nature does.

[Gage]

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

Matthew Chapter 7

You should probably back off and not criticize someone else's little girl.


Your twisting of the real meaning behind these scriptures is why we have a nation full of homosexuals and the names of 2 men on marriage certificates.