Can the Church survive growing LDS feminism?

[gclayjr]

Fiannan,

I never said that selected individuals, couldn't get more women. Usually, although not always, this is because of wealth or power. However, in Britain, there may be other factors

The social workers said the multiple marriages are encouraged by a welfare system which allows a second, third or fourth wife to be treated as a single mother who gets a house and an array of other state payments for herself and her children.

Controversially, it means that a man can take a new spouse (from anywhere in the world), sire any number of children with her, and yet have no responsibility for this family’s upkeep or care.

To avoid breaking Britain’s matrimony laws, the men marry their extra ‘wives’ in an Islamic Nikah ceremony, either in their own homes or a mosque.

These marriages are not recognised officially, so they do not appear in government statistics or have any status under the law. They also do not count when assessing welfare payments.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z4mr6G7xSO
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

I suppose we may have similar benefits that may attract women from poor Muslim countries to come here, have an illegal "Muslim" marriage" and live much better on welfare.,

Regards,

George Clay

[JohnnyL]

If he's a good guy who will love and protect and be a good father, there shouldn't be anything wrong with that. There are men outside this church who are much better husbands and fathers than some within. Plus he won't be engrained with mormon culture.

Well, if no other possibility exists then better than spinsterhood.

Women marrying outside the church is one way to bring more men in to the church. Men marrying outside the church proves to be a bit more challenging because men tend to follow their wives and leave the church.

I will add that I really like converts, they are some of the most "real" people the church has.

Statistically that is wrong. Up to half of all women who marry an active LDS man convert to the Church while far, far fewer men who marry active LDS women join the Church.

Last statistic I knew of (but this was at least 10 years ago): 1/2 of women convert, 1/6 of men convert (in this lifetime).

[JohnnyL]

Where is this happening? Where are all these single LDS Feminist women that go to sperm banks? The only single females I see are recently divorced and actively seeking a new mate.

Hunt, a 35-year-old who only recently got married herself, told me she has three times more single women than single men in her matchmaking database. She shared stories of devout Mormon women who wound up marrying outside the religion—officially known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints—simply because they had no other options. She has ten friends—“all good LDS girls!”—who gave up on finding a husband and decided to have children on their own. Said Hunt, “My heartstrings are pulled daily.”

http://time.com/dateonomics/

Probably getting pregnant with chosen one-night stands... I didn't see anything about sperm banks.

[djinwa]

More threads to point out the train wreck of life and marriage.

Gee, we can't figure out why young men are leaving? What exactly are the advantages to men in the church? Do normal young men wake up on Sunday morning and decide they want to go sit in 3 hours of meetings telling them sex is dirty and they should get married and get a job they hate and support 8 kids? Is that the dream?

The church is designed to primarily satisfy women's needs. Get a husband that is sole breadwinner so she can stay home and have babies and never have to work again. And with modesty standards and war on porn, she has monopoly control over his sexuality so she doesn't have to put out or take care of herself.

So church is designed to give women the most power, so when the problems with church history and doctrine are spread all over the internet, women are more likely to ignore them. Men on the other hand, are more likely to accept them given they don't like church anyway.

If you want to attract men, how about cut out meetings and busywork. Eliminate home teaching. Back off on modesty standards. Go to ball games or fishing. Harass the wives to make offering sex mandatory at least twice a week.

Ain't going to happen.

By the way, the nuclear family doesn't work. Men and women are different. Women expect all sorts of emotional connection with a dude which is not how he is wired. Men expect sex, which is not how she is wired, especially after having kids.

Good for man and woman to commit to each other for practical reasons like ensuring kids get raised, but need to have separate living quarters. Forget pillow talk. The more time together, the more fighting. Women can help each other with kids and domestic duties, and men can do their thing - working, fixing, etc.

Again, ain't going to happen. Too much money made trying to put square pegs in round holes. Think of all the marriage counselors and self-help books and then divorce lawyers, etc.

As for sperm banks, I'm all for them, as long as the goal is improved health and happiness. We have ward members with nearly all their 6 kids with serious mental issues. My son married a girl with cystic fibrosis who died a slow miserable death in early 20's. Hired a guy at work last week who couldn't take working in heat who has the same illness so had to quit.

We're told to accept our defects, but then we use surgery or medication or braces or glasses to correct them. Why have ugly kids? What is wrong with improving looks? If looks don't matter, why do makeup?

But again, using sperm banks ain't going to happen on a large scale, mostly because having kids is done for selfish reasons - to spread your own genes, no matter how poor they are. We don't care if our kids are miserable.

And alot more money made treating defects or by selling beauty aids or whatever.

I know in the animal world, with selective breeding you could wipe out most the veterinary profession. But people like breeding freaks, like dogs that can hardly breathe, or have allergies and ear infections, etc, etc. But people don't care if animals suffer as long as they're getting what they want. Same with their kids.

[Matchmaker]

Juliet,

Polygamy would mean all the rich men get the women, and that would cause some incredible problems for the poor single men.

That is exactly what is happening today in countries that practice polygamy. You read biographies written by women from these countries and their lives are also miserable, because they are little more than property. Poor men's only access to women is via houses of prostitution which are also rampant in these countries. These are brutal, cruel societies.

It is my understanding that even during the days of plural marriage in Utah, that only a relatively few men actually had multiple wives. I think polygamy, by its nature is a stopgap, so that all women have the opportunity for a celestial marriage. The math says that this will only happen under certain circumstances, and usually probably for only a few men.

That is why I believe that even in the celestial kingdom, while plural marriage may be a celestial law, few will actually have more than 1 wife.

Regards,

George Clay

And yet guys like this defy the notion that there is an equal number of men for women. Just think, if he converted to the Church and maybe a few hundred of his kids followed and had themselves sealed to him:

How many of his children will end up in the same schools someday, meet, date, and produce children together with their own siblings?

[MMbelieve]

Juliet,

Polygamy would mean all the rich men get the women, and that would cause some incredible problems for the poor single men.

That is exactly what is happening today in countries that practice polygamy. You read biographies written by women from these countries and their lives are also miserable, because they are little more than property. Poor men's only access to women is via houses of prostitution which are also rampant in these countries. These are brutal, cruel societies.

It is my understanding that even during the days of plural marriage in Utah, that only a relatively few men actually had multiple wives. I think polygamy, by its nature is a stopgap, so that all women have the opportunity for a celestial marriage. The math says that this will only happen under certain circumstances, and usually probably for only a few men.

That is why I believe that even in the celestial kingdom, while plural marriage may be a celestial law, few will actually have more than 1 wife.

Regards,

George Clay

And yet guys like this defy the notion that there is an equal number of men for women. Just think, if he converted to the Church and maybe a few hundred of his kids followed and had themselves sealed to him:

He mentioned lesbian couples as well which are two females not interested in men.
I find it interesting that he is doing this but more interesting that women are turning to a guy on Facebook for sperm. This world is kinda weird sometimes.

Perhaps these women are not women who cannot find a husband but women who don't want a husband. A sperm donation is essentially getting all you need from a man to have a child without all the responsibility of a relationship.

Unequal numbers of men and women but lots of women are gay and apparently lots really don't want a man just a kid.

Again, not really evidence for polygmay in those situations.

The more and more this modern world finds men to be pretty much not needed because women provide for themselves and or just really don't care for the drama of relationships and marriage, the more that men are going to have reinvent themselves to appeal to women beyond monetary support.

Maybe the tide should change and men be the ones altering and finding ways to attract women. Perhaps women are bored of today's men - I assume this is true to a large degree in some circles of thought (not counting femansim). And I will admit, the world men are forced to operate in doesn't really let them be very manly. Even church is tough with the clean cut clean shaven idea.

The burden of making it work shouldnt be solely on women being more tradional and falling in line. We are a modern world and things have changed, perhaps men should learn to go with the flow and change as well and stop complaining so much about it.

Yes, femanism today sucks but it's not going away anytime soon. And the more people complain, the more tired it gets.

My point is, the world and society is changing. We know this was bound to happen and there is little to nothing we can do about it. But complaining about femanism or whatever else is getting really old.

[BeNotDeceived]

Dude that fathered 800 looks like Bruce Dickerson who I saw doing a Fox Extra which is what I see instead of commercials. I wonder how many Larry H. racked up as the top contender of local lore. Still can't watch videos without excessive spend-age so will just enjoy the mystery.

First step to arrive at H. is to observe the FedEx logo then consider a similar service.

http://www.toxel.com/design/2010/06/09/ ... n-symbols/