Opening North Korea to the Gospel

[SmallFarm]

I'm not worthy

[Durzan]

Bump.

[Durzan]

Anyone have any additional thoughts? Note that I changed the title somewhat and added a poll.

[RAB]

I would go if called. But I would feel a lot more comfortable if I got the same promise that King Mosiah got from the Lord that his sons would be spared...that is, not be killed. They certainly were not all spared of trials and privations.

[Durzan]

I would go if called. But I would feel a lot more comfortable if I got the same promise that King Mosiah got from the Lord that his sons would be spared...that is, not be killed. They certainly were not all spared of trials and privations.

The sons of Mosiah still risked the own skins by going into Lamanite territory, and if it weren't for the fact that God promised to spare their lives, they probably would've had a decent chance of getting killed.

[DRC53]

In answer to your question about praying for North Korea, this would be my prayer (taken from D&C 109):

"50 Have mercy, O Lord, upon the wicked mob, who have driven thy people, that they may cease to spoil, that they may repent of their sins if repentance is to be found;
51 But if they will not, make bare thine arm, O Lord, and redeem that which thou didst appoint a Zion unto thy people.
52 And if it cannot be otherwise, that the cause of thy people may not fail before thee may thine anger be kindled, and thine indignation fall upon them, that they may be wasted away, both root and branch, from under heaven;
53 But inasmuch as they will repent, thou art gracious and merciful, and wilt turn away thy wrath when thou lookest upon the face of thine Anointed."

[Durzan]

After watching a video on the Rules of Rulers, many of Kim Jong Un's actions now make sense.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=45934&p=794056#p794056

He definitely only has as much power as his supporters give him.

[gardener4life]

Although this thread wasn't about not judging...I noticed you had something about shouldn't we not judge at the end and I thought this would be a good place to put things. So please don't be offended. I seek to only help you avoid stepping on something that will hurt you...

Somehow those places that don't have the gospel will be opened or they will be humbled enough to be opened up. That's how it works. If they reject the gospel they will suffer. Think why did Syria fall? And why will other Middle Eastern countries continue to have anarchy? There was no other way for those people to accept the gospel there. So in a roundabout way they are being brought out instead. So it will be sad probably but could be possible if places like the Middle East, or others get 'shaken up' for those people to get their people to have access to the gospel in a round about way. Some parts of the scriptures reference the lands of the Medes and Persians becoming desolate with empty houses ...and satyrs will dwell there. Also the Jaredites were destroyed in part because of slavery and social oppression among their turning their back on God...last I checked some countries in the world are very similar to slavery and social oppression so I wonder if those countries will stay intact as we know them for the gospel to be preached there.

So another point... There are a LOT of serious problems with when people say, 'how can we judge them?', or 'we have no right to judge'...I worry about how this is affecting the LDS people.

It's true that the Lord is the judge but too many people swing the bat too far and say just because we don't judge we should have no common sense and let evil ran rampant. The concept of not judging is also being used to let people waste away their lives because other relatives have to live in fear of other family members ganging up on them as the 'mormon relative that's judging them' when in fact there was no judgment at all. The Zoramites said;

Alma 21:6 Thou also sayest, except we repent we shall perish. How knowest thou the thought and intent of our hearts? How knowest thou that we have cause to repent? How knowest thou that we are not a righteous people? Behold, we have built sanctuaries, and we do assemble ourselves together to worship God. We do believe that God will save all men. (Isn't this the same as what right do you have to judge me? Further it is denying the spirit of prophecy and discernment.)

You will recall that the spirit of prophecy is often used to warn or protect the innocent and just from evil. Saying we can't identify evil as evil is like we helped the Zoramites throw those children in the fire because we left them defenseless to evil by not identifying them of what was going on in order to protect them. Also discernment is necessary in dealing with people in our families, or callings.

The excuse to not judge becomes, you aren't allowed to defend yourself against lawyer mongering, and very clever priestcraft talk...and becomes very manipulative. Clever manipulations tune their wording to try to make you think you are doing something wrong or that you are racist or anti-American if you say something is wrong through clever labeling. And then the next step is that we shouldn't have a right to have a voice in the law and how it is changed for good or bad either. Then when that happens only evil has a voice because others are shamed into not saying anything and not speaking out. Like this many Christians are letting the Anti-Christ trick them into thinking its not cool and modern to be seen as pro-doing whats right. How do you think so many people that want to bring down the U.S. got into our government and into lobbying? It started with clever manipulations of tying people's hands down to do nothing,...well lots of money helped too.

Consider the following...someone has a relative who is hurting another family member and the parents do nothing by overreaching hope that 'they've learned their lesson, they won't do it again, so let's not punish them; we already feel sorry for them. Then somehow they end up feeling sorry more for the sinner than the victim, who hasn't recovered yet from the injury. and because we can't judge them its wrong for us to be alert and vigilant of them bringing evil into the house.' Then this person continues to do this over and over again. Many LDS parents right now are being tricked into thinking that being vigilant and setting boundaries is wrong because you are 'judging them' while another family suffers because of the behavior of another. Also there is a growing number of people who study the scriptures to use them to manipulate LDS relatives into trying to deny their faith or search for evidences above faith, and prayers. You can recognize them by their rebellion.

When you read about Nephi's brothers harming Nephi did you notice how Nephi's relatives waited too long to act? They are quoted as pleading on his behalf many times, but why did they wait till he was about to lose his life before they would stick up for what's right?

Another type of reasoning I would exhort you to watch out for priestcrafts when you hear people say don't judge; reference D&C134. It is about law and order. And there are other scriptures about law and order. And key with the concept is don't judge is they often too want you to have to prove everything instead of use the spirit. Denying judgment usually means the victims increase and continue to suffer while the guilty go free and unpunished. (references to this also in the book of mormon.) Also key in D&C 134 is the notion that we should have the punishment and crime similar to one another in scope, gravity. And also that we have a duty to the law to protect the innocent, and the just.

Right now I see so many people even well meaning LDS people defending criminals. Its becoming a problem. Part of that issue is that they want so badly to believe that person has learned their lesson that they cheat people of the repentance process. Let the repentance process run its course. In the case of Lamoni he was willing to go to any lengths to come back to Jesus. He didn't rely on some clever ideology of teaching people they have no right to accuse him of a crime or having liberal judges.'

Point also; you can't have rule of law without some sense of 'that behavior is wrong' and not tying people's hands up because of some false notion that they can't judge people. And rule of law is necessary for a society to function with enough stability so that families and children can be brought up safely, and also so your missionary work can progress. Some people think that judging is bad. Being blind and deceived into thinking we have no say in government or the law is more bad. The idea that we can and should trust the Plan of Salvation and Christ should lead us to believe that if this person is punished then they can gain back what they lost by being punished after the fact through sincere humility, faith, and repentance. Nobody who truly repents and admits their wrong doing is lost in the plan of salvation. But the plan of salvation gets cheated when we teach people that nobody is wrong because there is no sin. And there is no sin because there is no right to judge or recognize that harm is being committed to ourselves or another. Thus, scriptures of 'if he repents he will admit his sin' are in place instead of if he sins, he will tell people not to judge him.

So the point is, aren't we not trusting the Lord if we cheat the repentance process by teaching people that they can't recognize wrong from right? Last I checked, recognizing wrong from right is a very key element in coming here. But to recognize good from evil we have to have a type of judgement in our mind if something is OK or not OK>

If Kim Jong Un or some other leader does decide to accept the gospel like Lamoni then he would not cheat the repentance process and would freely admit his wrong doings. He would beg for a place at the Savior's feet through loyalty and not clever words.

[JohnnyL]

Until Kim Jong Un is exposed to the gospel in a similar fashion by someone whom the Lord has prepared to teach him, I highly doubt that his mind and heart would even come close to changing.

I think that already happened with David Sneddon...

[Durzan]

Sorry for raising an old thread, but I just read something quite interesting that pertains to this very thread: KIM JONG UN met in person with a South Korean Delegation!

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/worl ... korea.html

Here's an excerpt:

SEOUL, South Korea — He has never traveled abroad as North Korea’s supreme leader. Until this week, his close encounters with foreign guests had been limited to dignitaries from China, Cuba and Syria — and Dennis Rodman. He increasingly resembles his grandfather, a national deity, down to the coifed flattop, gregarious grin and rotund waist.

So when a delegation of South Korean officials arrived to visit they did not know what to expect from the leader, Kim Jong-un, a 34-year-old with a nuclear arsenal, who has remained an enigma even as his weapons tests have terrified the world.

The envoys, some old enough to be Mr. Kim’s father, were taken aback by his friendliness and “forthcoming and daring” responses during a Monday meeting in Pyongyang, the North’s capital, that exceeded four hours, according to South Korean officials.

They had worried that Mr. Kim would threaten a fragile détente if South Korea and the United States resumed joint military exercises next month. Previously, the North has responded to such drills with missile tests and shrill warnings of a nuclear strike on America.

“We hope you can make another bold decision so we can overcome this hurdle,” read a bullet point in the handwritten memo carried by the South’s chief delegate, Chung Eui-yong. An image of the memo was captured by the North’s state-run television.

Mr. Kim surprised the South Korean diplomats not only by accepting joint South Korean-United States military drills as a reality, but also by expressing a willingness to start negotiations with Washington on ending his nuclear weapons program. He also told them he would suspend all nuclear and ballistic missile tests while such talks were underway.

Is he putting on a mask of friendliness? Perhaps, or perhaps not. Either way, Kim Jong Un is smarter than most of us think he is. Well played Mr Kim, well played.

Things are looking interesting on the Korean Peninsula. I am confident that these recent series of events will end in the opening of NK to the Gospel, one way or the other.

[sushi_chef]

"17 hours - Chung Eui-yong spoke outside the White House after a day of briefings with senior U.S. officials, including Trump, on the recent inter-Korea talks. Chung says Trump said "he would meet Kim Jong Un by May to achieve permanent denuclearization" of the Korean peninsula. Chung says Kim told the South Koreans he is "committed to denuclearization" and pledged that "North Korea will refrain from any further nuclear or missile tests."
"
chung eui-yong white house trump
https://search.yahoo.co.jp/search?ei=UT ... 22%20trump

[Joel]

"17 hours - Chung Eui-yong spoke outside the White House after a day of briefings with senior U.S. officials, including Trump, on the recent inter-Korea talks. Chung says Trump said "he would meet Kim Jong Un by May to achieve permanent denuclearization" of the Korean peninsula. Chung says Kim told the South Koreans he is "committed to denuclearization" and pledged that "North Korea will refrain from any further nuclear or missile tests."
"
chung eui-yong white house trump
https://search.yahoo.co.jp/search?ei=UT ... 22%20trump

I wish the guys from South Park do something on this meeting.

[Durzan]

bump.

[EdGoble]

this is interesting:

Pak—by coincidence, he has the same full name, Pak Song Il, as the senior member of the New York channel—is thirty-five years old, with short bushy hair and a placid demeanor. Most of North Korea’s twenty-five million people are not permitted to travel abroad, but Pak’s job has allowed him to visit several countries, which he described in terms of their cleanliness: Switzerland (very clean); Belgium (not so clean); Bangladesh (not clean at all). In 2015, he went to Utah (clean) for a nongovernmental exchange attended by members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The experience convinced him that Mormons have a lot in common with North Koreans. “When the L.D.S. started, they were hated,” he told me. “They were sent to the desert. But they made it thrive. They are organized like a bee colony, where everyone works for one purpose and they would die for it. And they make huge output, as a result. We understand each other very well"

(https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017 ... orth-korea)

It seems that in a very limited way, North Koreans are getting some exposure to the church. However, it is strange that he likened us to some sort of communist system that we would die for as if we are mindless drones under a dictator. Clearly, this is a misunderstanding, but it may in the end in a strange way work to our advantage in getting into the country.

[Durzan]

Interesting.