your thoughts on this video?

[iWriteStuff]

I didnt say I agreed with this. Well I do believe the 70% Hispanic part. I dont believe the Church will ever change its stance on homosexuality but I do believe most members will support it.

Alrighty that makes a bit more sense. I think it necessary to make a distinction between active/believing/faithful members of the church who support correct doctrine and those who are blown about by every cultural trend from TV.

As the leadership goes, I expect homosexuality to be no more acceptable in 50 years than porn or adultery. Sin is sin. We can work with repenting sinners, but we (like our Father in Heaven) cannot tolerate the least degree of wickedness. We call it for what it is and work to remedy it.

[Sirocco]

I do know two gay people myself though I don't think they were born gay but went with women since both had horrible experiences with men. Both I know do like men, and they live in polyamory thing and took worthless sjw like degrees and will amount to nothing.
I mostly don't care that gays exist, while I do believe a good number of them (like transgenders) are faking for popularity- it's a big ticket item now, be oppressed!
I've seen the gay community become much more well violent and angry, despite society accepting them more, they're relentless, and want more and more.
They got to be involved in everything, every little thing (except Islam).
I've never been okay with transgender men in women's... anywhere, and even my liberal parents agree with me there.

[Robin Hood]

Faithful Word Baptist Church.

LGBT = "Let God Burn Them" - Pastor Steven Anderson

[AI2.0]

So you cant see this happening?

Fifty years from now Utah Valley will be 70% hispanic, 20% white, and 10% black.

Fifty years from now The LDS Church will accept homosexuals fully, and there will even be openly gay bishops and stake presidents and perhaps at least one openly gay Apostle. The LDS Church by that time will admit that the Book of Mormon is an "inspired parable" and not literal history.

Conservatives will have by this time "split off" from the LDS Church into over 100 new churches, most led by "prophets", all claiming to be the "One True Church" and to carry on the true traditions of Mormonism. Each one of these spin-offs will continue to be anti-gay and declare that THEY are the True Church, and all others are apostates. Most conservative Mormons will join one of the over 100 spin-off churches, while the moderate and liberal Mormons (who will be the great majority at that time) will continue to belong to the LDS Church.

In fifty years the pro-gay LDS Church will retain the legal holdings, own all the temples and meeting hosues, and still be rich and powerful, and have 30 million members. Young Mormons in Seminary will be taught that Joseph Smith was "pro-gay" and gays and lesbians will be "sealed" for time and all eternity inside Mormon temples.

The spin-offs will have about 1 million members divided into 100 "churches" all claiming to be "the One True Church" and all led by "Living Prophets". Most based in Utah or Arizona or Idaho, but a few based in other countries. Africa alone will have 50 of the 100 spin-offs; all lead by black Mormon polygamist "prophets".

In fifty years the LDS Church will be pro-choice, pro-feminist, and pro-gay. Mormon women will get abortions openly. Those who preach against abortion or homosexuality will be excommunicated if they do not "repent".

In fifty years the Temple Endowment will be watered down so much as to be almost unrecognizable today; only the spin-offs having the 1850, or 1920, or 1970, or 1990, or 2005 versions. The "new" endowment will not be secret, and will re-write the Endowment Film to reflect Heavenly Mother as co-equal in the creation with Heavenly Father, and Eve as the equal to Adam, etc.

You may be right about our population being majority Hispanic, but that's to be expected if the trends continue. They are the ones having babies, not white/Americans, who either don't get married, don't have children or limit their families to two children. Hispanics ARE a remnant of Joseph and therefore, the prophecies will be fulfilled. They WILL be major players in the LDS church in the last days. Better get used to that.

As for the rest of your predictions....

Do you really believe this?

If so, you clearly don't have a testimony that this church is headed by the Lord Jesus Christ.

All I can say to you is; 'o ye of little faith' and remind you of what the Prophet Joseph Smith jr. prophesied:

“Our missionaries are going forth to different nations, and in Germany, Palestine, New Holland, Australia, the East Indies, and other places, the Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done” (History of the Church, 4:540).

The Lord leads this church and he can do is 'own work'. He's not bullied by a bunch of progressive SJW idiots who are quite active right now, but he's not going to let anyone destroy what has been achieved. He's not going to let HIS church and HIS work be undermined or destroyed (and the FAMILY is a big part of his work) and if you listen carefully to those who lead our church, you will see that we are on the right path and we will not budge. If some don't stay with the church, that will be sad, but we'll continue on with the core faithful, come what may. It's only the naysayers and fools who push this faith destroying garbage that the church is not up to the task of surviving, thriving and carrying on the work for which it was restored and that it's going to cave to social, political or financial pressure. The Lord's church was restored for the last time, as the Lord reminds us several times in the the D&C, there IS no other option but to keep his church on task and moving forward to do the work it was intended for.

Don't let Satan tell you anything else, if the voices of darkness try to tell you otherwise, tell them to SHUT UP and pay them no heed.

That said, there is a place in the church for those who are same sex attraction. But they must abide by the commandments and moral teachings in our doctrine. That means celibacy, just as it does for non married LDS--because the church does not allow for same sex marriage and will not recognize it for our members.

The LDS church may need to start emphasizing that we 'seal' couples in the temple, we do not 'marry' them. That is one way to keep control of what we do in temples. We can leave the business of 'marrying' to the government, which has unfortunately usurped this sacrament from religions and now decided that they can dictate it's definition.

[David13]

One thing to remember about those hispanics, is that they come primarily from Mexico, and primarily, like about 95% Catholic. And have a much much stronger disapproval of homosexuals than do general Americans with none of the ridiculous political correctness that now bends over backwards to appease the perverts.
So the church in future may, may be far less "accepting" of that sin.
Possible. I don't know how likely, I'm only partially good at predicting the future,
dc

[Gage]

Well one thing is for sure is that the Church and its members will take much persecution because we are told. I cant predict the future either but it seems by looking at the way things are now, a lot of that persecution will be because of the stance on homosexuality. Let a Pope change the Catholic stance on it and a few other mainstream religions change their minds and us Mormons could be singled out as "the only haters"

[David13]

Well one thing is for sure is that the Church and its members will take much persecution because we are told. I cant predict the future either but it seems by looking at the way things are now, a lot of that persecution will be because of the stance on homosexuality. Let a Pope change the Catholic stance on it and a few other mainstream religions change their minds and us Mormons could be singled out as "the only haters"

Well the Pope they have now is about as close to sanctioning it as he can get. So ...

[Michelle]

So you cant see this happening?

Fifty years from now Utah Valley will be 70% hispanic, 20% white, and 10% black.

Fifty years from now The LDS Church will accept homosexuals fully, and there will even be openly gay bishops and stake presidents and perhaps at least one openly gay Apostle. The LDS Church by that time will admit that the Book of Mormon is an "inspired parable" and not literal history.

Conservatives will have by this time "split off" from the LDS Church into over 100 new churches, most led by "prophets", all claiming to be the "One True Church" and to carry on the true traditions of Mormonism. Each one of these spin-offs will continue to be anti-gay and declare that THEY are the True Church, and all others are apostates. Most conservative Mormons will join one of the over 100 spin-off churches, while the moderate and liberal Mormons (who will be the great majority at that time) will continue to belong to the LDS Church.

In fifty years the pro-gay LDS Church will retain the legal holdings, own all the temples and meeting hosues, and still be rich and powerful, and have 30 million members. Young Mormons in Seminary will be taught that Joseph Smith was "pro-gay" and gays and lesbians will be "sealed" for time and all eternity inside Mormon temples.

The spin-offs will have about 1 million members divided into 100 "churches" all claiming to be "the One True Church" and all led by "Living Prophets". Most based in Utah or Arizona or Idaho, but a few based in other countries. Africa alone will have 50 of the 100 spin-offs; all lead by black Mormon polygamist "prophets".

In fifty years the LDS Church will be pro-choice, pro-feminist, and pro-gay. Mormon women will get abortions openly. Those who preach against abortion or homosexuality will be excommunicated if they do not "repent".

In fifty years the Temple Endowment will be watered down so much as to be almost unrecognizable today; only the spin-offs having the 1850, or 1920, or 1970, or 1990, or 2005 versions. The "new" endowment will not be secret, and will re-write the Endowment Film to reflect Heavenly Mother as co-equal in the creation with Heavenly Father, and Eve as the equal to Adam, etc.

You may be right about our population being majority Hispanic, but that's to be expected if the trends continue. They are the ones having babies, not white/Americans, who either don't get married, don't have children or limit their families to two children. Hispanics ARE a remnant of Joseph and therefore, the prophecies will be fulfilled. They WILL be major players in the LDS church in the last days. Better get used to that.

As for the rest of your predictions....

Do you really believe this?

If so, you clearly don't have a testimony that this church is headed by the Lord Jesus Christ.

All I can say to you is; 'o ye of little faith' and remind you of what the Prophet Joseph Smith jr. prophesied:

“Our missionaries are going forth to different nations, and in Germany, Palestine, New Holland, Australia, the East Indies, and other places, the Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done” (History of the Church, 4:540).

The Lord leads this church and he can do is 'own work'. He's not bullied by a bunch of progressive SJW idiots who are quite active right now, but he's not going to let anyone destroy what has been achieved. He's not going to let HIS church and HIS work be undermined or destroyed (and the FAMILY is a big part of his work) and if you listen carefully to those who lead our church, you will see that we are on the right path and we will not budge. If some don't stay with the church, that will be sad, but we'll continue on with the core faithful, come what may. It's only the naysayers and fools who push this faith destroying garbage that the church is not up to the task of surviving, thriving and carrying on the work for which it was restored and that it's going to cave to social, political or financial pressure. The Lord's church was restored for the last time, as the Lord reminds us several times in the the D&C, there IS no other option but to keep his church on task and moving forward to do the work it was intended for.

Don't let Satan tell you anything else, if the voices of darkness try to tell you otherwise, tell them to SHUT UP and pay them no heed.

That said, there is a place in the church for those who are same sex attraction. But they must abide by the commandments and moral teachings in our doctrine. That means celibacy, just as it does for non married LDS--because the church does not allow for same sex marriage and will not recognize it for our members.

The LDS church may need to start emphasizing that we 'seal' couples in the temple, we do not 'marry' them. That is one way to keep control of what we do in temples. We can leave the business of 'marrying' to the government, which has unfortunately usurped this sacrament from religions and now decided that they can dictate it's definition.

I don't want to hijack this thread or change topics, so just a quick note on demographics. Latinos, like everyone else have much lower birth rates since 2007 and immigration has shifted as well.

"This slowdown has been driven by two, large demographic trends affecting the Hispanic community. Immigration, which in the 1980s and 1990s was the principal driver of Hispanic population growth, began to slow in the mid-2000s. And, in the case of Mexico, immigration has now reversed back toward Mexico since 2009. As a result, the main driver of Hispanic population growth shifted to U.S. births. But here too, change is underway: Throughout much of the early 2000s birth rates of Hispanic women ages 15 to 44 were about 95 births per 1,000 women, reaching a peak of 98.3 in 2006. However, since the onset of the Great Recession, their birth rates have declined, steadily falling to 72.1 births per 1,000 Hispanic women ages 15 to 44 in 2014."

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2016/09/08/l ... recession/

Back to the post about predictions. Demographics disagree with the post for many reasons, but more important is the fact that the single most important doctrine, an absolute truth is that exaltation=Godhood and Godhood is based on procreation. An act that can only be with the union of a man and woman. There is no room for exception here.

Doctrine and Covenants 132:17-18
7 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

19: ". . .to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever."

[Sirocco]

Well one thing is for sure is that the Church and its members will take much persecution because we are told. I cant predict the future either but it seems by looking at the way things are now, a lot of that persecution will be because of the stance on homosexuality. Let a Pope change the Catholic stance on it and a few other mainstream religions change their minds and us Mormons could be singled out as "the only haters"

Well the Pope they have now is about as close to sanctioning it as he can get. So ...

I have no good words to say about that man, he's a moron.

[passionflower]

Every race and nation is experiencing demographic winter. No, there really won't be hispanics out producing whites in Utah in the future. Those who want them to replace us will be disappointed.

The birthrate among hispanics, though higher ( in the US) than caucasions, is right now lower than it has been. And is lowering. The birth rate in Mexico is so much lower than it was 50 years ago, that we won't need to worry about illegal immigrants seeking work, as Mexico won't have any workers to spare. Even Honduras and Nigeria by the next generation will have too few young people to support the aging population.

[Gage]

Every race and nation is experiencing demographic winter. No, there really won't be hispanics out producing whites in Utah in the future. Those who want them to replace us will be disappointed.

The birthrate among hispanics, though higher ( in the US) than caucasions, is right now lower than it has been. And is lowering. The birth rate in Mexico is so much lower than it was 50 years ago, that we won't need to worry about illegal immigrants seeking work, as Mexico won't have any workers to spare. Even Honduras and Nigeria by the next generation will have too few young people to support the aging population.

Are we talking about the same countries? My town is literally becoming over run with Hispanics. I went to my niece's elementary school awards ceremony and I felt like I was in El Salvador. Over half the kids in the classes were Hispanic. I have never seen as many Hispanics as I see now in other towns when I travel. There is no shortage of Latinos and there will be no shortage of Latinos in the years to come.

[Sunain]

I'm really glad to see in this forum thread that the majority of the members are still on track and despite the challenges of the world, we continue to follow the commandments and do what is right. We may see even more instances like this video occurring in the future.

[Michelle]

Every race and nation is experiencing demographic winter. No, there really won't be hispanics out producing whites in Utah in the future. Those who want them to replace us will be disappointed.

The birthrate among hispanics, though higher ( in the US) than caucasions, is right now lower than it has been. And is lowering. The birth rate in Mexico is so much lower than it was 50 years ago, that we won't need to worry about illegal immigrants seeking work, as Mexico won't have any workers to spare. Even Honduras and Nigeria by the next generation will have too few young people to support the aging population.

Are we talking about the same countries? My town is literally becoming over run with Hispanics. I went to my niece's elementary school awards ceremony and I felt like I was in El Salvador. Over half the kids in the classes were Hispanic. I have never seen as many Hispanics as I see now in other towns when I travel. There is no shortage of Latinos and there will be no shortage of Latinos in the years to come.

Yes, we are sure Gage. Demographics reveal history as well as the future. Any children you see 10 and older at part of the old trend of growth. Any you see younger than 10 are part of the trend of decline. Because trends are transitional not instantaneous they shift across time.

Also, there is a lag between birth rate dropping and population dropping, a kind of momentum that takes time to see, but is certain because you can only make newborns, not 5 year olds if you realize you are running short. ;)

Another point that confuses the issue is population density. You may perceive more growth because more people are crowding into the same space/city. But that doesn't necessarily equate to actual growth over a larger are like the whole USA.

Having said that, population is still growing, but below replacement rates. So the momentum that we are experiencing is slowing. In the very near future, this will become evident in your everyday life( and everyone else's) .

Strangely, again because of population density, you will probably experience only a more crowded feeling through your lifetime, but in terms of standard of living , you will likely see that drop along with most people on the planet.

Next economic downturn cause by demographic winter? 2024.

That doesn't mean there aren't other factors that will affect the economy for better or for worse, but this is one we don't have to speculate on, it will happen.

[butterfly]

Homosexuality is something a person is born with. My son is gay and I assure you he is a good and decent person and is definitely not an abomination!

Homosexuality is a conscious decision and choice. This complements what apostles and prophets in the scriptures have said, what modern day prophets and apostles have said, regardless of your intent to ignore what they say.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes that “the experience of same-sex attraction is a complex reality for many people. The attraction itself is not a sin, but acting on it is. Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them. (M. Russell Ballard, 2014).
https://www.lds.org/liahona/2015/09/the ... g=eng&_r=1

What does it mean if you cannot consciously choose something? Is it still a sin? We know that in order to sin, you must choose it of your own free will, otherwise it is at most a transgression. Elder Ballard thinks a person cannot choose to be homosexual or heterosexual. Do you remember the moment you chose to be heterosexual or was it just the way you always were?
When does your heterosexuality become a sin? It becomes a sin when you act upon it outside the bonds of marriage.

Remember when Jesus' disciples asked whose sin caused the man to be born blind? They used to believe that being born with a physical disability was the result of sin, so if the blind man would just repent, then he would see again.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

I wonder if we're doing the same thing with homosexuals. Are we expecting them to just repent from what they're born with? Do we believe that someone sinned and therefore caused their homosexuality?

How would it change the way we viewed homosexuals if we actually agreed with Elder Ballard and understood that homosexuality is like being born blind. It's not a result of sin. It's not something that goes away with repentance. What would you say to a 12 yr old blind girl who said that her Heavenly Parents made her perfectly, blindness and all? You might interpret that to mean that she accepts her trial in life, she accepts who she is, and she trusts that her Parents still love her.

[Sunain]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes that “the experience of same-sex attraction is a complex reality for many people. The attraction itself is not a sin, but acting on it is. Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them. (M. Russell Ballard, 2014).
https://www.lds.org/liahona/2015/09/the ... g=eng&_r=1

What does it mean if you cannot consciously choose something? Is it still a sin? We know that in order to sin, you must choose it of your own free will, otherwise it is at most a transgression. Elder Ballard thinks a person cannot choose to be homosexual or heterosexual. Do you remember the moment you chose to be heterosexual or was it just the way you always were?
When does your heterosexuality become a sin? It becomes a sin when you act upon it outside the bonds of marriage.

The church obviously believes strongly that homosexual influence plays a huge part in whither or not a person decides to have homosexual feelings. Parents teaching that it is acceptable is one of the main reasons it is so prevalent in society now. With the November 2015 policy, the church has made their position very clear that a parents lifestyle can affect their child's choices in life. It was VERY clear from the video of the 12 year old girl that there was definitely parental influence.

If homosexual attraction is not a sin, then why should lust for hetrosexuals be a sin? Isn't lust for hetrosexuals just attraction without acting on it?! Jesus said that physical sexual relations aren't the only definition for sin and that lust is almost the same. Shouldn't this also apply to a woman lusting after another woman?

...desiring things contrary to God’s will or desiring to possess things in a manner that is contrary to His will is lust, and it leads to unhappiness.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2016/10/love ... t?lang=eng

The Savior cautioned, “Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart” (Matthew 5:28).

According to the Family Proclamation, if God's will is that only men and women marry, so they can raise a family and fulfil the Plan of Salvation, therefore is not every other option contrary to His will? Obviously, temple marriages and sealings are for male and female only and all other marriage combinations are forbidden and against His will and plan.

God knows there is no progression for homosexuals unless they choose to progress and change to follow His commandments, one of which is to multiply and replenish the Earth. Homosexuality is therefore agaist His will since natural procreation isn't possible.

I personally believe that the "Mormon and Gay" website is poorly done and that most of the information on it is posted because of the social pressures of the political left and to appease them to stop attacking the church. If that's what members of the church truly believe, how is there ever hope for change for homosexuals to follow God's plan?

It's unfortunate that the church is slowly caving to social and political power rather than standing up for what we've always said. That's why people think the chruch will reverse it's stance on gays just like it did on blacks as discussed earlier in the forum thread. They believe if enough pressure is applied, the church will change. Unfortunately, it seems to be working to some degree. It seems like the church's stance on homosexuality might be the major fracturing point for the members to choose who they will serve in the last days. I agree with many others here in the thread and I don't see the church ever changing the stance that homosexual marriage and sexual relations are a sin and that will cause many more to leave the church and many more not to join.

What I like about this video the most is that it shows the world that we will not tolerate that kind of behaviour in sacrament meeting. If standing up for what we believe is unpopular with the world, that means we are setting an example of righteous living.

[butterfly]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes that “the experience of same-sex attraction is a complex reality for many people. The attraction itself is not a sin, but acting on it is. Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them. (M. Russell Ballard, 2014).
https://www.lds.org/liahona/2015/09/the ... g=eng&_r=1

What does it mean if you cannot consciously choose something? Is it still a sin? We know that in order to sin, you must choose it of your own free will, otherwise it is at most a transgression. Elder Ballard thinks a person cannot choose to be homosexual or heterosexual. Do you remember the moment you chose to be heterosexual or was it just the way you always were?
When does your heterosexuality become a sin? It becomes a sin when you act upon it outside the bonds of marriage.

The church obviously believes strongly that homosexual influence plays a huge part in whither or not a person decides to have homosexual feelings. Parents teaching that it is acceptable is one of the main reasons it is so prevalent in society now. With the November 2015 policy, the church has made their position very clear that a parents lifestyle can affect their child's choices in life. It was VERY clear from the video of the 12 year old girl that there was definitely parental influence.

If homosexual attraction is not a sin, then why should lust for hetrosexuals be a sin? Isn't lust for hetrosexuals just attraction without acting on it?! Jesus said that physical sexual relations aren't the only definition for sin and that lust is almost the same. Shouldn't this also apply to a woman lusting after another woman?

...desiring things contrary to God’s will or desiring to possess things in a manner that is contrary to His will is lust, and it leads to unhappiness.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2016/10/love ... t?lang=eng

The Savior cautioned, “Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart” (Matthew 5:28).

According to the Family Proclamation, if God's will is that only men and women marry, so they can raise a family and fulfil the Plan of Salvation, therefore is not every other option contrary to His will? Obviously, temple marriages and sealings are for male and female only and all other marriage combinations are forbidden and against His will and plan.

God knows there is no progression for homosexuals unless they choose to progress and change to follow His commandments, one of which is to multiply and replenish the Earth. Homosexuality is therefore agaist His will since natural procreation isn't possible.

I personally believe that the "Morning and Gay" website is poorly done and that most of the information on it is posted because of the social pressures of the political left and to appease them to stop attacking the church. If that's what members of the church truly believe, how is there ever hope for change for homosexuals to follow God's plan?

It's unfortunate that the church is slowly caving to social and political power rather than standing up for what we've always said. That's why people think the chruch will reverse it's stance on gays just like it did on blacks as discussed earlier in the forum thread. They believe if enough pressure is applied, the church will change. Unfortunately, it seems to be working to some degree. It seems like the church's stance on homosexuality might be the major fracturing point for the members to choose who they will serve in the last days. I agree with many others here in the thread and I don't see the church ever changing the stance that homosexual marriage and sexual relations are a sin and that will cause many more to leave the church and many more not to join.

What I like about this video the most is that it shows the world that we will not tolerate that kind of behaviour in sacrament meeting. If standing up for what we believe is unpopular with the world, that means we are setting an example of righteous living.

Just to be clear, are you saying you disagree with elder Ballard when he says "individuals do not choose to have such (homosexual) attractions"?
It's a very scary thing for many people if he's right. That would mean that no matter how righteous you are, how good of a parent you are, your child could be homosexual.
It also means that it's not something you could help them "repent" from. If they didn't choose homosexuality to begin with, then there was no sin. One must willfully choose to rebel against God in order for it to be sin. Elder Ballard says you can't choose homosexuality so therefore it cannot be a sin according to him.

I understand lust differently than you describe. I am very attracted to my husband but I have never lusted after him. Attraction is normal and good and actually based on several aspects of a person, not just sexuality.
Lust, however, is trying to satisfy your own selfish and carnal desires without regard to the other person.
A homosexual (or heterosexual) can be attracted to someone without ever lusting.

You state that homosexuality is against God's will because it doesn't allow for procreation. What about heterosexual couples who struggle with infertility- can we conclude that their marriage is against God's will because they can't have children?
If, whatever is causing a husband and wife to not bear children, can be healed in the next life, then can whatever is causing homosexuality also be healed in the next life?

If we want hope for homosexuals to follow God's plan, then we first must understand what makes them homosexual. Telling a blind man to repent in order to gain his sight shows that the doctor doesn't understand what causes blindness. According to elder Ballard, telling a homosexual to repent shows you don't know what causes homosexuality.


I agree there are a lot of similarities between the church's stance on gays and blacks & the priesthood. Blacks were believed to have sinned, that's why they were black. They could not enjoy the same privileges as whites because God was obviously punishing them for their sins. Today homosexuals are that way because of "sin". They cannot enjoy the same privileges as heterosexuals because God wants to punish them.

Honestly, the reason why the church is being so swayed by liberal parties on this issue, IMO, is because the church doesn't know what God's will actually is on this subject. There are a few random verses from the bible that some construe to be saying that homosexuality is an abomination. Besides that, there's no revelation on it. There have been several policy changes and updates, but that doesn't sound like the revealed word of God.

The only way to know is to ask God yourself, which is what those who have homosexual loved ones tend to do. And, not surprisingly, they're the ones who come back from the work of seeking and knocking and are filled with love and understanding for homosexuals instead of fear and condemnation.

[Robin Hood]

I do not subscribe to the idea that homosexuals are born "that way". This is nonsense, as statistical studies of identical twins has clearly demonstrated.
Choice is certainly involved.
I'm not claiming that most homosexuals decide to become so as a one time decision, but I am saying that a series of choices, many of which on their own seem unimportant, have the cumulative effect of orientating someone in that way.

[Gage]

I do not subscribe to the idea that homosexuals are born "that way". This is nonsense, as statistical studies of identical twins has clearly demonstrated.
Choice is certainly involved.
I'm not claiming that most homosexuals decide to become so as a one time decision, but I am saying that a series of choices, many of which on their own seem unimportant, have the cumulative effect of orientating someone in that way.

I agree. We are not seeing a rise in homosexuality today because more people are being born that way. We are seeing a rise in it because it is more accepted, it seems it is almost encouraged. A man can legally marry another man. Children are taught from birth that it is normal and ok. Religion teaches it is wrong, not as many religious folks today. For these reasons, more and more are "giving into" and "acting on" any homosexual feelings or thoughts, curiosity, etc. Just my 2 cent, I could be wrong, guess we find out one day.

[Sunain]

Just to be clear, are you saying you disagree with elder Ballard when he says "individuals do not choose to have such (homosexual) attractions"?
It's a very scary thing for many people if he's right. That would mean that no matter how righteous you are, how good of a parent you are, your child could be homosexual.
It also means that it's not something you could help them "repent" from. If they didn't choose homosexuality to begin with, then there was no sin. One must willfully choose to rebel against God in order for it to be sin. Elder Ballard says you can't choose homosexuality so therefore it cannot be a sin according to him.

I understand lust differently than you describe. I am very attracted to my husband but I have never lusted after him. Attraction is normal and good and actually based on several aspects of a person, not just sexuality.
Lust, however, is trying to satisfy your own selfish and carnal desires without regard to the other person.
A homosexual (or heterosexual) can be attracted to someone without ever lusting.

You state that homosexuality is against God's will because it doesn't allow for procreation. What about heterosexual couples who struggle with infertility- can we conclude that their marriage is against God's will because they can't have children?
If, whatever is causing a husband and wife to not bear children, can be healed in the next life, then can whatever is causing homosexuality also be healed in the next life?

If we want hope for homosexuals to follow God's plan, then we first must understand what makes them homosexual. Telling a blind man to repent in order to gain his sight shows that the doctor doesn't understand what causes blindness. According to elder Ballard, telling a homosexual to repent shows you don't know what causes homosexuality.

The only way to know is to ask God yourself, which is what those who have homosexual loved ones tend to do. And, not surprisingly, they're the ones who come back from the work of seeking and knocking and are filled with love and understanding for homosexuals instead of fear and condemnation.

The church is very clear, homosexual acts are a sin. I do disagree with Elder Ballard's opinion, but there is as you have said little or no proof either way to say when people become homosexual's. People argue they are born that way but I believe, like many others, that at some point in their life they had to make conscious decision to be that way and that the current social climate of acceptance is fueling more to come out because their fear of prosecution is gone. Why has it only been morally acceptable for the last couple decades?! Because we are in the last days and Satan is using every trick in his playbook to destroy the family.

I think though that this video gives a bit more insight. If the parents taught her that acting that way was morally and socially unacceptable, would she still think she's homosexual?

Married couples that can not have children of their own in mortality can adopt. I think this is part of God's plan to get children that wouldn't have otherwise had a loving home. They will be healed and Elder Hafen has said that healing is also possible for homosexuals in the next life also. Blindness is a physical problem like not being able to have children. Many people are born with untreatable physical conditions. I believe though that Homosexuality is a mental/psychological disorder and for those that truly choose to change, just like with a golden investigator trying to change bad habits, it is possible to be helped.

My opinion on the homosexual issue almost completely aligns with what Elder Bruce C. Hafen has said. I believe it is a psychological disorder. Social acceptance does not make it morally right.

Homosexuality 'not in your DNA,' says LDS leader

By Rosemary Winters

The Salt Lake Tribune
Published September 19, 2009 5:36 pm

People who are attracted to members of their own sex can change, an LDS general authority said Saturday, so they shouldn't let Satan persuade them they can't.

Elder Bruce C. Hafen, a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy, spoke at the 19th annual conference of Evergreen International, a nonprofit group that helps Mormons "overcome homosexual behavior" and "diminish same-sex attraction." The event was held at the LDS Church's Joseph Smith Memorial Building in Salt Lake City.

Hafen promised attendees, "If you are faithful, on resurrection morning -- and maybe even before then -- you will rise with normal attractions for the opposite sex."

Whenever the devil -- whom Hafen referred to as "the adversary" -- tries to "convince you that you are hopelessly 'that way,' so that acting out your feelings is inevitable, he is lying," Hafen said. "He is the father of lies."

Last month, the American Psychological Association passed a resolution advising mental health professionals against telling their clients they can change their sexual orientation through therapy or other treatments.

No solid evidence exists that such efforts work, the APA concluded, and some studies suggest the potential for harm, including depression and suicidal tendencies. A task force reviewed 83 studies on sexual-orientation change conducted since 1960.

The "long-standing consensus" of the behavioral and social sciences, the APA noted, is that homosexuality is a "normal and positive variation of human sexual orientation."

Will Carlson of Equality Utah, which advocates on behalf of gay and transgender Utahns, when contacted by The Tribune, said, "These young men and women at Evergreen are experiencing normal attractions right now ... It's irresponsible for [Hafen] to suggest that if someone just wants to bad enough, they can be straight."

Hafen spent a large portion of his talk, held during a Sunday-like service, criticizing the gay-rights movement and denying a biological link to sexual orientation. Same-sex attraction is "not in your DNA," he said.

He attacked the APA's decision to remove homosexuality from its list of mental disorders, deeming it politically motivated.

"In the early 1970s, the public and most lawyers, doctors and therapists saw homosexuality not as normal adult behavior but as a psychological disorder," he said. "We have witnessed primarily an aggressive political movement more than we've witnessed substantive change in the medical or legal evidence."

Lisa Diamond, a psychology professor and researcher at the University of Utah, in an interview with The Tribune , called Hafen's assertion "hilarious" and "absolutely untrue."

Homosexuality had been listed as a disorder, Diamond said, without any real scientific data. The APA reversed course after a pioneering psychologist, Evelyn Hooker, produced research to show there was no difference between the mental health of straight and gay individuals, she said.

"That moment really did represent, in fact, the triumph of science over prejudice," Diamond said.

There is "strong evidence" that there are "biological contributions" to sexual orientation, Diamond noted, but it's a complex process. She called arguments about the lack of a so-called "gay gene," a "smoke screen" for those who promote sexual-orientation change.

http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref ... i_13377659

[David13]

...



The only way to know is to ask God yourself, which is what those who have homosexual loved ones tend to do. And, not surprisingly, they're the ones who come back from the work of seeking and knocking and are filled with love and understanding for homosexuals instead of fear and condemnation.

Or maybe they just pop into "political correctness" on their own, since "everybody" else does nowadays. And maybe because someone in the family ...

It's funny the same people who say homos are "born that way" turn around and say (now, since it's become the latest fad) that a man can become a woman and a woman can become a man.

You know, there is an understanding, obtained from seeking and knocking, that isn't "fear and condemnation" but an understanding of God's plan.

And it isn't being an apologist for sin.

I didn't watch the video. From the comments its far too sickening for me to watch. But tell me this, how does a 12 year old know anything about what they will become?

I know there are many 12 year olds who say they are (or will become) an attorney or a doctor, and after that freshman year of college, after grades come out, turn around and decide they will "be" something else.
dc

[David13]

...



The only way to know is to ask God yourself, which is what those who have homosexual loved ones tend to do. And, not surprisingly, they're the ones who come back from the work of seeking and knocking and are filled with love and understanding for homosexuals instead of fear and condemnation.

Or is it like I posted elsewhere, that their morality is only for other people, other familys, and that when their family does it, well, it's not really sin, it's just love, and it really isn't that bad, and well, everybody's doing it, and yes, we are all modern now. And it's not their fault, etc.


dc

[passionflower]

None of us are objective or even rational when it comes to our own children, or grandchildren even. Ask any elementary school teacher. I am like this, too, but the difference here is that I admit it.

Compared to other kids, we always believe our own are extra talented, extra beautiful, seldom in the wrong, always should get the best from everyone in all situations, and are extra deserving of love, praise and sympathy,. etc. And almost no matter what, we are overprotective and always on their side in an "us vs them" way. In our eyes our kids simply aren't just ordinary everyday garden variety people, they are superstars.

That might explain it, David.

[Serragon]

I do not subscribe to the idea that homosexuals are born "that way". This is nonsense, as statistical studies of identical twins has clearly demonstrated.
Choice is certainly involved.
I'm not claiming that most homosexuals decide to become so as a one time decision, but I am saying that a series of choices, many of which on their own seem unimportant, have the cumulative effect of orientating someone in that way.

A huge number of young boys who are molested become homosexuals as well. It is clear that for the most part this is learned behavior. They are taught to be aroused by something. Nearly all of the homosexuals I have had friendships with have admitted that the initial idea was implanted by someone; most often it is some sort of shepherding/mentoring but it can also be as simple as something from a book or movie.

This idea is then nurtured until it becomes the dominate or preferred form of sexual desire. it is really just a sexual fetish out of control. The idea that it represents your identity and that you are some new type of human being is what is so damaging.

[Robin Hood]

I do not subscribe to the idea that homosexuals are born "that way". This is nonsense, as statistical studies of identical twins has clearly demonstrated.
Choice is certainly involved.
I'm not claiming that most homosexuals decide to become so as a one time decision, but I am saying that a series of choices, many of which on their own seem unimportant, have the cumulative effect of orientating someone in that way.

A huge number of young boys who are molested become homosexuals as well. It is clear that for the most part this is learned behavior. They are taught to be aroused by something. Nearly all of the homosexuals I have had friendships with have admitted that the initial idea was implanted by someone; most often it is some sort of shepherding/mentoring but it can also be as simple as something from a book or movie.

This idea is then nurtured until it becomes the dominate or preferred form of sexual desire. it is really just a sexual fetish out of control. The idea that it represents your identity and that you are some new type of human being is what is so damaging.

You are absolutely correct.
I have counseled with SSA men through my current church calling. I spoke with one not so long ago who was gracious enough to admit he wasn't born that way. He said he doesn't know how he came to be homosexual, and can't remember any specific incident or incidents etc., but believes it might have been something as simple as really admiring a male role model when very young.

[kittycat51]

I also know that teenagers going through puberty because of raging hormones can be turned on by anything...watching a movie with an actor or actress that is really good looking or beautiful can stir emotions. This in turn is misinterpreted that "oh I must be gay/lesbian to feel this way."
Ever watch Seinfeld where George is turned on by a massage by a male massage therapist? Same theory.