your thoughts on this video?

[DesertWonderer]

Homosexuality is an abomination and whoredom before the father.

Says who?

The Lord.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/18.22
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/20.13
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/rom/1.27
https://www.lds.org/topics/family-procl ... g&old=true

So, you believe all the stories in the Old Testament?

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/18.22
This chapter also says you shouldn’t “uncover the nakedness” of a woman during her monthly cycle. [v. 19] Do you follow and advocate for this rule?

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/20.13
This chapter also says if you curse your father and mother [v. 9], commit adultery [v. 10], or are a wizard [v. 27] you should be put to death. Do you believe we should be following these regulations?

God also commanded Moses to stone a man to death for picking up sticks (Numbers 15: 32-36). Sorry, but the loving God I worship would never say such a thing.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/rom/1.27
So, you’re going with Paul here? The same Paul that says “women should remain silent in the churches”? Or do you just pick and choose which teachings to follow and which to ignore?

https://www.lds.org/topics/family-procl ... g&old=true
I’ve read the The Proclamation many times. Maybe you could point out where it says homosexuality is an abomination. I can’t seem to see it.

What scripture in the Book of Mormon talks about homosexuality?
What scripture in the D&C talks about homosexuality?
What scripture in the Pearl of Great Price talks about homosexuality?

You're relying fully on the bible for your scriptural support. That same Bible that says it is ok to sell your daughter into slavery. That same Bible that says that eating shellfish is also an abomination. That same Bible that says women shouldn't wear makeup or gold jewelry. That same Bible that says sex outside of marriage is an abomination, but doesn't say anything about homosexuality within the bonds of marriage. Sorry, but the scriptures are not a reliable source to know the will of God on this subject, unless you are also willing to stone anyone wearing clothing made from two different kinds of thread.

I know you'll totally disagree with me on all points, but I just wanted to point out that there is more than one way to look at this for a believing LDS. (which I am).

So I don't put words in your mouth, please clearly state if YOU believe that homosexuality is a grievous sin or not.

[Gage]

I heard that many members of this ward are upset with how the SP handled the situation and want them released. Probably just the parents but I would not be surprised if this was true. This little homosexuality thingy we got going on is going to cause a lot of persecution, a lot of falling away, a lot of sifting, and in the end a lot of destruction and devastation.

[iWriteStuff]

Finish these sentences, followed by your general location:

a) "In my ward, the members would have __________________"
b) "I live in _________"

here's me -
a) The older half would have been mortified and removed her personally. The millennial half would have welcomed her into the parking lot before chants and protests erupted in support of said lesbian.
b) I live in Colorado.

[Gage]

a. about half not really listening, probably a few low murmurs from the older folks, the rest probably just blank stares. I know the Bishop would of jumped up and told her to sit down and he would of started us all in a song.
b. I live in the South

[iWriteStuff]

fyi started a poll on this subject.... I really want to know where the members are on this subject. It feels like a sifting.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45777

[braingrunt]

...
So, you believe all the stories in the Old Testament?

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/18.22
This chapter also says you shouldn’t “uncover the nakedness” of a woman during her monthly cycle. [v. 19] Do you follow and advocate for this rule?
...

Good job, you listened in your "great and abominable church" meeting. I like how well you were able to convey the teachings as well, you could be ordained to their priesthood.
I think that learning this little lesson is a pretty good replacement for actually understanding the bible, which is too boring and too old fashioned.

[sarcasm off]

The treatment of biblical rules is far from arbitrary, and a person who has actually studied, with real intent to be instructed by God rather than the world, knows this. Shutting down the bible is just devilry.

Here is one decent rebuttal. For an lds person the rebuttal is incomplete, but it's a good start.

[tribrac]

I heard that many members of this ward are upset with how the SP handled the situation and want them released.

Of course they do.

[RocknRoll]

You're relying fully on the bible for your scriptural support. That same Bible that says it is ok to sell your daughter into slavery. That same Bible that says that eating shellfish is also an abomination. That same Bible that says women shouldn't wear makeup or gold jewelry. That same Bible that says sex outside of marriage is an abomination, but doesn't say anything about homosexuality within the bonds of marriage. Sorry, but the scriptures are not a reliable source to know the will of God on this subject

I know you'll totally disagree with me on all points, but I just wanted to point out that there is more than one way to look at this for a believing LDS. (which I am).

I'm sorry you feel that way but as a member of the Lord's church there is only one way of looking at homosexuality and that is that acting upon those tendencies is a sin. Perhaps talking with others on this forum, the missionaries, your bishop or stake president would be a wise decision to help you sort out your doctrinal issues especially the troubling idea that you don't seem to believe the Bible to be the word of God.

the Church regards “same-sex marriage as a particularly grievous or significant, serious kind of sin that requires Church discipline.”
https://www.lds.org/church/news/elder-c ... n?lang=eng

I’m sorry, but you are the one who is wrong. There most certainly is more than one way of looking at homosexuality. The church has changed its approach more than once already in the past 30 years.
Different did not say that “acting upon those tendencies is a sin”. He just said “Homosexuality is an abomination and whoredom before the father”. There is a difference and the church has acknowledged this. Homosexuality is something a person is born with. My son is gay and I assure you he is a good and decent person and is definitely not an abomination!
You seem to have gotten the idea that I am young or naive when it comes to matters of the gospel. You do not have to suggest to me that I talk to others on this forum, or anywhere else for that matter, about this issue. I have been a member of this church for over 45 years. I am a return missionary myself, I live in one of the most LDS areas in the world (Utah County). One of my best friends is my bishop, and I’ve served in a bishopric. I’ve had discussions with various bishops and stake presidents about this issue. Some have even come to me for advice. I do believe the bible is the word of God as far as it’s translated correctly. I also believe many of the things in the Old Testament, some of which I cited above, are not relatable to our present times. So, cherry picking some scripture from the OT that says a man shouldn’t “also lie with mankind...” or he “shall surely be put to death” from the same chapter that says we should stone adulterers just doesn’t fly with me.

[RocknRoll]

Says who?

The Lord.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/18.22
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/20.13
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/rom/1.27
https://www.lds.org/topics/family-procl ... g&old=true

So, you believe all the stories in the Old Testament?

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/18.22
This chapter also says you shouldn’t “uncover the nakedness” of a woman during her monthly cycle. [v. 19] Do you follow and advocate for this rule?

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/20.13
This chapter also says if you curse your father and mother [v. 9], commit adultery [v. 10], or are a wizard [v. 27] you should be put to death. Do you believe we should be following these regulations?

God also commanded Moses to stone a man to death for picking up sticks (Numbers 15: 32-36). Sorry, but the loving God I worship would never say such a thing.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/rom/1.27
So, you’re going with Paul here? The same Paul that says “women should remain silent in the churches”? Or do you just pick and choose which teachings to follow and which to ignore?

https://www.lds.org/topics/family-procl ... g&old=true
I’ve read the The Proclamation many times. Maybe you could point out where it says homosexuality is an abomination. I can’t seem to see it.

What scripture in the Book of Mormon talks about homosexuality?
What scripture in the D&C talks about homosexuality?
What scripture in the Pearl of Great Price talks about homosexuality?

You're relying fully on the bible for your scriptural support. That same Bible that says it is ok to sell your daughter into slavery. That same Bible that says that eating shellfish is also an abomination. That same Bible that says women shouldn't wear makeup or gold jewelry. That same Bible that says sex outside of marriage is an abomination, but doesn't say anything about homosexuality within the bonds of marriage. Sorry, but the scriptures are not a reliable source to know the will of God on this subject, unless you are also willing to stone anyone wearing clothing made from two different kinds of thread.

I know you'll totally disagree with me on all points, but I just wanted to point out that there is more than one way to look at this for a believing LDS. (which I am).

So I don't put words in your mouth, please clearly state if YOU believe that homosexuality is a grievous sin or not.

I believe any sexual act outside the bounds of marriage is a sin. Is "homosexuality" the word your using for "homosexual sex"? I also acknowledge that different people have different interpretations of “sexual act”.

[RocknRoll]

PART 1

I'm not sure about the other commenter, but I don't disagree on every point. You might be surprised by some of my reasons, and not by others. I might also add, considering how often I have seen similar lists, I doubt your list came from your own careful study of the Bible. But this may be the first time I address it on a comment board, if not every point, because I am tired of seeing it posted over and over again in various ways.

1. Kind of obvious,so let's get it out of the way: We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly.

2. We believe the law of Moses was a law of carnal command, the higher law given by Christ takes precedence.

3. While we are no longer commanded to live the Law of Moses, and in fact are commanded not to live parts of it, much of the temporal commandments are still good advice. Some things simply need to be see in context.

For example, the idea of not being with a women who is menstruating: many of the carnal commands relate to health, various body fluids are considered unclean. We understand germs, they just had to obey to receive the benefits.

Reserving sexual intercourse until a woman had not bled for a week and had cleaned herself actually would have benefited fertility in ensuring that most couples would be together on the woman's most fertile day. Not foolproof, but an excellent rule of thumb. Since God was building a people, lots of babies mattered.

As for stoning, in a closed society, among a people prone to disobedience wickedness spread like an infectious disease. They could have been destroyed as a people before they even got started. Not my call, but maybe some justification if it was translated correctly.

I love it when people say things like: "you don't abstain from shellfish and pork do you?" Why yes, yes I do. And so do others I know, unless like Paul, an exception is made in sharing the gospel. Very rare.

So why? Not a commandment anymore right? Well, I can't speak for everyone else but to me, pork IS an unclean meat. I grew up around pig farmers, and forgive me for saying so, but pigs are like super sized rats with smaller tails. They eat anything, even you if you fall in the pen. They cannot sweat off toxins. They carry a disgusting amount of parasites. Just not worth it. Shellfish? The great big bugs if the sea? No land bugs, no ocean bugs. Easy to want to do that. Again, probably more temporal reasons than I know, but that is enough.

What about "clean" meats? Since I consider the word of wisdom a higher law, I understand the Law of Moses to say only certain meats, and the WOW no meat, except winter, cold, and famine. And then the clean meats. Higher law adds to lower law. Like lower law=don't commit adultery, higher law=don't lust. Lower law=don't kill, higher law =don't be angry. Each one keeps you an extra step away from sin.

Thank you for your well thought out post, Michelle. Believe it or not, I have studied the bible. You said " I doubt your list came from your own careful study of the Bible". Actually, most of my list came from reading the entire chapter of the scriptures that Sunain provided. I defiantly disagree on one point...I love me some bacon!

[DesertWonderer]

The Lord.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/18.22
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/20.13
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/rom/1.27
https://www.lds.org/topics/family-procl ... g&old=true

So, you believe all the stories in the Old Testament?

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/18.22
This chapter also says you shouldn’t “uncover the nakedness” of a woman during her monthly cycle. [v. 19] Do you follow and advocate for this rule?

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/20.13
This chapter also says if you curse your father and mother [v. 9], commit adultery [v. 10], or are a wizard [v. 27] you should be put to death. Do you believe we should be following these regulations?

God also commanded Moses to stone a man to death for picking up sticks (Numbers 15: 32-36). Sorry, but the loving God I worship would never say such a thing.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/rom/1.27
So, you’re going with Paul here? The same Paul that says “women should remain silent in the churches”? Or do you just pick and choose which teachings to follow and which to ignore?

https://www.lds.org/topics/family-procl ... g&old=true
I’ve read the The Proclamation many times. Maybe you could point out where it says homosexuality is an abomination. I can’t seem to see it.

What scripture in the Book of Mormon talks about homosexuality?
What scripture in the D&C talks about homosexuality?
What scripture in the Pearl of Great Price talks about homosexuality?

You're relying fully on the bible for your scriptural support. That same Bible that says it is ok to sell your daughter into slavery. That same Bible that says that eating shellfish is also an abomination. That same Bible that says women shouldn't wear makeup or gold jewelry. That same Bible that says sex outside of marriage is an abomination, but doesn't say anything about homosexuality within the bonds of marriage. Sorry, but the scriptures are not a reliable source to know the will of God on this subject, unless you are also willing to stone anyone wearing clothing made from two different kinds of thread.

I know you'll totally disagree with me on all points, but I just wanted to point out that there is more than one way to look at this for a believing LDS. (which I am).

So I don't put words in your mouth, please clearly state if YOU believe that homosexuality is a grievous sin or not.

I believe any sexual act outside the bounds of marriage is a sin. Is "homosexuality" the word your using for "homosexual sex"? I also acknowledge that different people have different interpretations of “sexual act”.

For some reason, I didn't think you would answer my simple question.

[Sunain]

Homosexuality is something a person is born with. My son is gay and I assure you he is a good and decent person and is definitely not an abomination!

Homosexuality is a conscious decision and choice. This complements what apostles and prophets in the scriptures have said, what modern day prophets and apostles have said, regardless of your intent to ignore what they say.

No one here is saying your son is an abomination but in the eyes of the Lord, the sin of acting on homosexuality is. If you have studied the scriptures for that long, you would know that the Lord loves the sinner but is displeased with sin.

I heard that many members of this ward are upset with how the SP handled the situation and want them released. Probably just the parents but I would not be surprised if this was true. This little homosexuality thingy we got going on is going to cause a lot of persecution, a lot of falling away, a lot of sifting, and in the end a lot of destruction and devastation.

I agree. It seem the sifting is well under way. Rationalization of sin seems to be in full swing.

[JustDan]

It seem the sifting is well under way. Rationalization of sin seems to be in full swing.

I would concur with this opinion.

I may be over simplifying things, but it comes as no surprise to me to see that Rock n Roll is of the opinion that homosexuality is not a sin, and has a personal connection i.e. a homosexual son.

I have found that people who 'know someone' or have a family member who is homosexual are far more likely to rationalise and accept this lifestyle.

I saw it in my own parents. Several years ago, my youngest brother announced he is gay. He is not by the way, but he believes he is. He cut off all acceptance of our church (actually, he ran to the local evangelical church that is far more outspoken on homosexuality than we are). My parents were cut up, but over the years became more accepting, and now have hope that 'he will marry so he can find happiness'. See how it works? Th sin has not changed, but because of the acquaintance with the person, lds members change their standing.

Yes, it will continue and the views within the church will become more and more liberal.

See, this is the world in which we live. More and more people are choosing homosexuality. The church is no longer safe ground.

[David13]

It seem the sifting is well under way. Rationalization of sin seems to be in full swing.

I would concur with this opinion.

I may be over simplifying things, but it comes as no surprise to me to see that Rock n Roll is of the opinion that homosexuality is not a sin, and has a personal connection i.e. a homosexual son.

I have found that people who 'know someone' or have a family member who is homosexual are far more likely to rationalise and accept this lifestyle.

...

See, this is the world in which we live. More and more people are choosing homosexuality. The church is no longer safe ground.

JustDan
I'm glad to see you post truth like that.
i had wanted to say that throughout life I have seen many people who are moral, righteous, honest, etc. Unless and until someone in their family commits whatever sin.
Then ... POOF!
Suddenly that thing is no longer wrong.
Graffiti, it's a terrible evil and vandalism. Until their son is busted for it, then, POOF!, oh, that's just street art, boys will be boys, he shouldn't have to go to court for that.
Or theft. Yes, it is wrong, immoral, etc. Until their nephew is charged with theft. Then, oh, come on, that was nothing, they should just forget about it. After all I love my nephew, my own flesh and blood more than I love my own morality.
Driving under the influence and on the wrong side of the freeway and smashing 5 cars? Oh that is horrible, a terrible thing, how could anyone condone ... etc.
Until it is their nephew, then, ... POOF! Oh, well, no one was hurt (?) it was just property, insurance will pay for it. I have to go and bail him out of jail now. Well, he is my nephew, flesh and blood, you know.

Fair weather morality, or morality for other people, not our "special" family.
dc

My father's attitude toward me, and my attitude if I had had a family would be/is, we are to be held to a higher standard than others, not a lower one.

[Serragon]

It seem the sifting is well under way. Rationalization of sin seems to be in full swing.

I would concur with this opinion.

I may be over simplifying things, but it comes as no surprise to me to see that Rock n Roll is of the opinion that homosexuality is not a sin, and has a personal connection i.e. a homosexual son.

I have found that people who 'know someone' or have a family member who is homosexual are far more likely to rationalise and accept this lifestyle.

...

See, this is the world in which we live. More and more people are choosing homosexuality. The church is no longer safe ground.

JustDan
I'm glad to see you post truth like that.
i had wanted to say that throughout life I have seen many people who are moral, righteous, honest, etc. Unless and until someone in their family commits whatever sin.
Then ... POOF!
Suddenly that thing is no longer wrong.
Graffiti, it's a terrible evil and vandalism. Until their son is busted for it, then, POOF!, oh, that's just street art, boys will be boys, he shouldn't have to go to court for that.
Or theft. Yes, it is wrong, immoral, etc. Until their nephew is charged with theft. Then, oh, come on, that was nothing, they should just forget about it. After all I love my nephew, my own flesh and blood more than I love my own morality.
Driving under the influence and on the wrong side of the freeway and smashing 5 cars? Oh that is horrible, a terrible thing, how could anyone condone ... etc.
Until it is their nephew, then, ... POOF! Oh, well, no one was hurt (?) it was just property, insurance will pay for it. I have to go and bail him out of jail now. Well, he is my nephew, flesh and blood, you know.

Fair weather morality, or morality for other people, not our "special" family.
dc

People don't want to believe that the person they love and care about is simply choosing wickedness.

It is much more comforting to believe that outside forces are responsible for the behavior. So people naturally gravitate towards the idea that "they are born that way" when it is someone they love. And the sinner loves the excuse as well. It changes the action from something sinful and immoral to something noble and heroic.

[Michelle]

Thank you for your well thought out post, Michelle. Believe it or not, I have studied the bible. You said " I doubt your list came from your own careful study of the Bible". Actually, most of my list came from reading the entire chapter of the scriptures that Sunain provided. I defiantly disagree on one point...I love me some bacon!

LOL, Glad to hear it RocknRoll. I really see the shellfish and other random laws list so often on posts defying those who believe the Bible is a source with regard to homosexuality being a sin, I assumed you got if from reading the many comment boards.

Agree to disagree then. :ymhug:

With regard to bacon, I won't lie. It smells good, it even tasted good when I ate it, but knowing what I know now. No going back. ;) lol

Also, I don't think any of the things I listed from the Law of Moses are a sin to do, even bacon eating, just part of the "laws irrevocably decreed" that carry blessing for obedience. I promise I'm not trying to "strain at gnats" as someone wrote. I have simply had health problems healed by following some of the more obscure Laws of Moses (yup, even the not mixing fabrics-only pure cotton, linen or wool for me ) that I love to share those blessings.

Michelle

[Ezra]

You're relying fully on the bible for your scriptural support. That same Bible that says it is ok to sell your daughter into slavery. That same Bible that says that eating shellfish is also an abomination. That same Bible that says women shouldn't wear makeup or gold jewelry. That same Bible that says sex outside of marriage is an abomination, but doesn't say anything about homosexuality within the bonds of marriage. Sorry, but the scriptures are not a reliable source to know the will of God on this subject

I know you'll totally disagree with me on all points, but I just wanted to point out that there is more than one way to look at this for a believing LDS. (which I am).

I'm sorry you feel that way but as a member of the Lord's church there is only one way of looking at homosexuality and that is that acting upon those tendencies is a sin. Perhaps talking with others on this forum, the missionaries, your bishop or stake president would be a wise decision to help you sort out your doctrinal issues especially the troubling idea that you don't seem to believe the Bible to be the word of God.

the Church regards “same-sex marriage as a particularly grievous or significant, serious kind of sin that requires Church discipline.”
https://www.lds.org/church/news/elder-c ... n?lang=eng

I’m sorry, but you are the one who is wrong. There most certainly is more than one way of looking at homosexuality. The church has changed its approach more than once already in the past 30 years.
Different did not say that “acting upon those tendencies is a sin”. He just said “Homosexuality is an abomination and whoredom before the father”. There is a difference and the church has acknowledged this. Homosexuality is something a person is born with. My son is gay and I assure you he is a good and decent person and is definitely not an abomination!
You seem to have gotten the idea that I am young or naive when it comes to matters of the gospel. You do not have to suggest to me that I talk to others on this forum, or anywhere else for that matter, about this issue. I have been a member of this church for over 45 years. I am a return missionary myself, I live in one of the most LDS areas in the world (Utah County). One of my best friends is my bishop, and I’ve served in a bishopric. I’ve had discussions with various bishops and stake presidents about this issue. Some have even come to me for advice. I do believe the bible is the word of God as far as it’s translated correctly. I also believe many of the things in the Old Testament, some of which I cited above, are not relatable to our present times. So, cherry picking some scripture from the OT that says a man shouldn’t “also lie with mankind...” or he “shall surely be put to death” from the same chapter that says we should stone adulterers just doesn’t fly with me.

Do you homeschool your kids?

[Yahtzee]

Homosexuality is a conscious decision and choice. This complements what apostles and prophets in the scriptures have said, what modern day prophets and apostles have said, regardless of your intent to ignore what they say.

"We may not know precisely why some people feel attracted to others of the same sex, but for some it is a complex reality and part of the human experience."

Source: https://www.lds.org/topics/same-sex-attraction?lang=eng

I did a lot of theatre back in high school, so plenty of gay friends. Most of them weren't born that way, but I guarantee one if them was. It's a telestial world, things go awry.
I suspect one of my kids is gay. Still young, so we'll see what happens I guess. But that would definitely be a "born this way" thing. It doesn't matter though. The Lord's standards for singles remains the same, regardless of who they are attracted to. Wish someone had shared that with this little girl. A quick search on lds.org pulls it up pretty quickly, but why research for a prewritten testimony?

[aspietroll]

:ymsigh:

She wasn't bearing her testimony, she was reading a prepared statement.
The only thing the presiding brethren did wrong was to leave it so long before they intervened and asked her to sit down.

Prepared statement? Isn't literally every speech given ever a prepared statement?

[Gage]

:ymsigh:

She wasn't bearing her testimony, she was reading a prepared statement.
The only thing the presiding brethren did wrong was to leave it so long before they intervened and asked her to sit down.

Prepared statement? Isn't literally every speech given ever a prepared statement?

Not as prepared as this one. An ex member mom with a video camera and an agenda. This was a prepared, 15 minutes of fame, "let the persecution of the church begin" statement.

[I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS]

More and more members are trying to rationalize homosexuality as not being the abomination that we've been taught it is. It seems they do this for a few different reasons. As someone stated above, members who have loved ones dealing with this have trouble accepting their loved one (who may be a great person) is engaging in a supposed evil act.
Others seem to take the cowardly way out. They realize that to stand up for traditional morals and against the LGBT agenda is to bring upon them scorn and wrath, and they can't stand the heat. It'll only get worse. This topic and all it's implications and disputes may well prove to be the great sieve so long spoken of. I've already seen it tear amazing families apart that I would have never thought would be broken by such a thing.
I've even heard some members say they believe the Church will change their stance on it, just like they did with the Blacks and the Priesthood issue. That'll never happen.

[Gage]

So you cant see this happening?

Fifty years from now Utah Valley will be 70% hispanic, 20% white, and 10% black.

Fifty years from now The LDS Church will accept homosexuals fully, and there will even be openly gay bishops and stake presidents and perhaps at least one openly gay Apostle. The LDS Church by that time will admit that the Book of Mormon is an "inspired parable" and not literal history.

Conservatives will have by this time "split off" from the LDS Church into over 100 new churches, most led by "prophets", all claiming to be the "One True Church" and to carry on the true traditions of Mormonism. Each one of these spin-offs will continue to be anti-gay and declare that THEY are the True Church, and all others are apostates. Most conservative Mormons will join one of the over 100 spin-off churches, while the moderate and liberal Mormons (who will be the great majority at that time) will continue to belong to the LDS Church.

In fifty years the pro-gay LDS Church will retain the legal holdings, own all the temples and meeting hosues, and still be rich and powerful, and have 30 million members. Young Mormons in Seminary will be taught that Joseph Smith was "pro-gay" and gays and lesbians will be "sealed" for time and all eternity inside Mormon temples.

The spin-offs will have about 1 million members divided into 100 "churches" all claiming to be "the One True Church" and all led by "Living Prophets". Most based in Utah or Arizona or Idaho, but a few based in other countries. Africa alone will have 50 of the 100 spin-offs; all lead by black Mormon polygamist "prophets".

In fifty years the LDS Church will be pro-choice, pro-feminist, and pro-gay. Mormon women will get abortions openly. Those who preach against abortion or homosexuality will be excommunicated if they do not "repent".

In fifty years the Temple Endowment will be watered down so much as to be almost unrecognizable today; only the spin-offs having the 1850, or 1920, or 1970, or 1990, or 2005 versions. The "new" endowment will not be secret, and will re-write the Endowment Film to reflect Heavenly Mother as co-equal in the creation with Heavenly Father, and Eve as the equal to Adam, etc.

[iWriteStuff]

So you cant see this happening?

You lost me at gay apostles. I'm guessing you don't have much faith in the restored church of Jesus Christ? A year or so ago the gay community was up in arms because the church came out with a policy that said we won't baptize the kids of gay parents. How do you get from that to "gay apostles in 50 years"?

Look at the leadership of today, because that is who cultivates the leadership of tomorrow. There is no slackness in reproving sin. That's half the point of this video - the SP shut her down. That is what a shepherd of the flock does, and that is what they expect the membership to do. There is no embracing sin, although we will work to rehabilitate the sinner. The members you see embracing homosexuality are the members on the road to apostasy, and thus will find themselves outside of the church, not in it, 50 years from now.

[Robin Hood]

So you cant see this happening?

Fifty years from now Utah Valley will be 70% hispanic, 20% white, and 10% black.

Fifty years from now The LDS Church will accept homosexuals fully, and there will even be openly gay bishops and stake presidents and perhaps at least one openly gay Apostle. The LDS Church by that time will admit that the Book of Mormon is an "inspired parable" and not literal history.

Conservatives will have by this time "split off" from the LDS Church into over 100 new churches, most led by "prophets", all claiming to be the "One True Church" and to carry on the true traditions of Mormonism. Each one of these spin-offs will continue to be anti-gay and declare that THEY are the True Church, and all others are apostates. Most conservative Mormons will join one of the over 100 spin-off churches, while the moderate and liberal Mormons (who will be the great majority at that time) will continue to belong to the LDS Church.

In fifty years the pro-gay LDS Church will retain the legal holdings, own all the temples and meeting hosues, and still be rich and powerful, and have 30 million members. Young Mormons in Seminary will be taught that Joseph Smith was "pro-gay" and gays and lesbians will be "sealed" for time and all eternity inside Mormon temples.

The spin-offs will have about 1 million members divided into 100 "churches" all claiming to be "the One True Church" and all led by "Living Prophets". Most based in Utah or Arizona or Idaho, but a few based in other countries. Africa alone will have 50 of the 100 spin-offs; all lead by black Mormon polygamist "prophets".

In fifty years the LDS Church will be pro-choice, pro-feminist, and pro-gay. Mormon women will get abortions openly. Those who preach against abortion or homosexuality will be excommunicated if they do not "repent".

In fifty years the Temple Endowment will be watered down so much as to be almost unrecognizable today; only the spin-offs having the 1850, or 1920, or 1970, or 1990, or 2005 versions. The "new" endowment will not be secret, and will re-write the Endowment Film to reflect Heavenly Mother as co-equal in the creation with Heavenly Father, and Eve as the equal to Adam, etc.

I won't be here 50 years from now, but you are wrong.

[Gage]

I didnt say I agreed with this. Well I do believe the 70% Hispanic part. I dont believe the Church will ever change its stance on homosexuality but I do believe most members will support it.