Good Behavior Trump Debate Thread

[freedomforall]

We must repeal Obamacare

[Silver]

To the Official Eternal Trump Rah-Rah Squad this will all be Obama's fault too:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-1 ... nken-uncle

By Bill Blain of Mint Partners

Blain’s Morning Porridge – July 18th 2017

“Man there’s an opera out on the Turnpike, there’s a ballet being fought out in the alley...”

Bit messy in Washington this morning as yet another flagship policy of the Trump administration spirals down the plughole. Last night’s abysmal demise of his Obamacare repeal and replacement puts all his grand visions of economic stimulus, tax reform, and fiscal policy back under the cosh. Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan, hit the nail on the head when he said last week Washington has become a national embarrassment.

(Jamie – it’s not just you. Our guys might just be worse. That photo of “our team” in Brussels yesterday was a hoot. That they looked like a team of elderly accountants on day-release with not a single briefing document between them says it all. If their materials were really in their briefcases – why did the guy at the end have a brand new unused notebook and his daughters yellow flower-fairy pen laid out neatly on the table? Plus Dodgy Davies apparently only lasted a few hours before heading back to London… Nice to know they take the Brexit negotiations seriously. The ghost of Margaret Thatcher must be spinning at Warp 5.)

I’ll be chatting to my US chums later today to try and get a steer on where the Republicans and Trump go from here. The dollar, stocks and bond yields all fell. The markets will read it as further confirmation of lower for longer – and a Fed hike maybe in December.

Bloomberg are warning of a “Turnaround Tuesday – it’s apparently the most prevalent day for a 180 degree sentiment flip. Time for a dollar shock? Possibly. It says Hedge funds are now short the dollar. Trumpflation trades have died. The rate hike cycle is dead. Hmm.. you have been warned.

And with the US now looking like a deflated drunken uncle, the focus is firmly fixed on what Mario Draghi says on Thursday at the ECB meeting. Does he confirm Euro strength with a bullish assessment of Eurozone recovery, and hint at an early taper and normalisation… Or does he step back, go soft and mushy, and make some “kick that can down that strasse” comments?

[iWriteStuff]

To the Official Eternal Trump Rah-Rah Squad this will all be Obama's fault too:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-1 ... nken-uncle

By Bill Blain of Mint Partners

Blain’s Morning Porridge – July 18th 2017

“Man there’s an opera out on the Turnpike, there’s a ballet being fought out in the alley...”

Bit messy in Washington this morning as yet another flagship policy of the Trump administration spirals down the plughole. Last night’s abysmal demise of his Obamacare repeal and replacement puts all his grand visions of economic stimulus, tax reform, and fiscal policy back under the cosh. Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan, hit the nail on the head when he said last week Washington has become a national embarrassment.

(Jamie – it’s not just you. Our guys might just be worse. That photo of “our team” in Brussels yesterday was a hoot. That they looked like a team of elderly accountants on day-release with not a single briefing document between them says it all. If their materials were really in their briefcases – why did the guy at the end have a brand new unused notebook and his daughters yellow flower-fairy pen laid out neatly on the table? Plus Dodgy Davies apparently only lasted a few hours before heading back to London… Nice to know they take the Brexit negotiations seriously. The ghost of Margaret Thatcher must be spinning at Warp 5.)

I’ll be chatting to my US chums later today to try and get a steer on where the Republicans and Trump go from here. The dollar, stocks and bond yields all fell. The markets will read it as further confirmation of lower for longer – and a Fed hike maybe in December.

Bloomberg are warning of a “Turnaround Tuesday – it’s apparently the most prevalent day for a 180 degree sentiment flip. Time for a dollar shock? Possibly. It says Hedge funds are now short the dollar. Trumpflation trades have died. The rate hike cycle is dead. Hmm.. you have been warned.

And with the US now looking like a deflated drunken uncle, the focus is firmly fixed on what Mario Draghi says on Thursday at the ECB meeting. Does he confirm Euro strength with a bullish assessment of Eurozone recovery, and hint at an early taper and normalisation… Or does he step back, go soft and mushy, and make some “kick that can down that strasse” comments?

To be fair, nothing could make me more happy than to see this legislation fail. "Repeal and Replace" was really just "Re-deal and Repay", assuring nothing substantial really changes except this time the Republicans get showered by insurance company lobbyist money instead of the Democrats. Whatever happened to just "Repeal"? Why were they fighting so hard to keep ObamaCare alive and only slightly modified?

What's really left to cheer about in the Trump agenda? Anything that had potential is being flushed down the toilet with extreme prejudice.

[Arenera]

To the Official Eternal Trump Rah-Rah Squad this will all be Obama's fault too:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-1 ... nken-uncle

By Bill Blain of Mint Partners

Blain’s Morning Porridge – July 18th 2017

“Man there’s an opera out on the Turnpike, there’s a ballet being fought out in the alley...”

Bit messy in Washington this morning as yet another flagship policy of the Trump administration spirals down the plughole. Last night’s abysmal demise of his Obamacare repeal and replacement puts all his grand visions of economic stimulus, tax reform, and fiscal policy back under the cosh. Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan, hit the nail on the head when he said last week Washington has become a national embarrassment.

(Jamie – it’s not just you. Our guys might just be worse. That photo of “our team” in Brussels yesterday was a hoot. That they looked like a team of elderly accountants on day-release with not a single briefing document between them says it all. If their materials were really in their briefcases – why did the guy at the end have a brand new unused notebook and his daughters yellow flower-fairy pen laid out neatly on the table? Plus Dodgy Davies apparently only lasted a few hours before heading back to London… Nice to know they take the Brexit negotiations seriously. The ghost of Margaret Thatcher must be spinning at Warp 5.)

I’ll be chatting to my US chums later today to try and get a steer on where the Republicans and Trump go from here. The dollar, stocks and bond yields all fell. The markets will read it as further confirmation of lower for longer – and a Fed hike maybe in December.

Bloomberg are warning of a “Turnaround Tuesday – it’s apparently the most prevalent day for a 180 degree sentiment flip. Time for a dollar shock? Possibly. It says Hedge funds are now short the dollar. Trumpflation trades have died. The rate hike cycle is dead. Hmm.. you have been warned.

And with the US now looking like a deflated drunken uncle, the focus is firmly fixed on what Mario Draghi says on Thursday at the ECB meeting. Does he confirm Euro strength with a bullish assessment of Eurozone recovery, and hint at an early taper and normalisation… Or does he step back, go soft and mushy, and make some “kick that can down that strasse” comments?

To be fair, nothing could make me more happy than to see this legislation fail. "Repeal and Replace" was really just "Re-deal and Repay", assuring nothing substantial really changes except this time the Republicans get showered by insurance company lobbyist money instead of the Democrats. Whatever happened to just "Repeal"? Why were they fighting so hard to keep ObamaCare alive and only slightly modified?

What's really left to cheer about in the Trump agenda? Anything that had potential is being flushed down the toilet with extreme prejudice.

Yes, the Kohler K-3933-0 toilet offers comfort height along water-saving flush performance in a 1.28 gallon flush. Save money on water while your health-care costs go up!

[iWriteStuff]

Remember how everyone was talking about the fact that if Hillary got elected, we'd never hear the end of the email scandal?

Starting to think we'll never hear the end of the Russian scandal. Is there anyone in Trump's administration who didn't meet with the Russians?

The Trumps and the Truth

Even Donald Trump might agree that a major reason he won the 2016 election is because voters couldn’t abide Hillary Clinton’s legacy of scandal, deception and stonewalling. Yet on the story of Russia’s meddling in the 2016 election, Mr. Trump and his family are repeating the mistakes that doomed Mrs. Clinton.

That’s the lesson the Trumps should draw from the fiasco over Don Jr.’s June 2016 meeting with Russians peddling dirt on Mrs. Clinton. First Don Jr. let news of the meeting leak without getting ahead of it. Then the White House tried to explain it away as a “nothingburger” that focused on adoptions from Russia.

When that was exposed as incomplete, Don Jr. released his emails that showed the Russian lure about Mrs. Clinton and Don Jr. all excited—“I love it.” Oh, and son-in-law Jared Kushner and Beltway bagman Paul Manafort were also at the meeting. Don Jr. told Sean Hannity this was the full story. But then news leaked that a Russian-American lobbyist was also at the meeting.

Even if the ultimate truth of this tale is merely that Don Jr. is a political dunce who took a meeting that went nowhere—the best case—the Trumps made it appear as if they have something to hide. They have created the appearance of a conspiracy that on the evidence Don Jr. lacks the wit to concoct. And they handed their opponents another of the swords that by now could arm a Roman legion.

Don’t you get it, guys? Special counsel Robert Mueller and the House and Senate intelligence committees are investigating the Russia story. Everything that is potentially damaging to the Trumps will come out, one way or another. Everything. Denouncing leaks as “fake news” won’t wash as a counter-strategy beyond the President’s base, as Mr. Trump’s latest 36% approval rating shows.

Mr. Trump seems to realize he has a problem because the White House has announced the hiring of white-collar Washington lawyer Ty Cobb to manage its Russia defense. He’ll presumably supersede the White House counsel, whom Mr. Trump ignores, and New York outside counsel Marc Kasowitz, who is out of his political depth.

Mr. Cobb has an opening to change the Trump strategy to one with the best chance of saving his Presidency: radical transparency. Release everything to the public ahead of the inevitable leaks. Mr. Cobb and his team should tell every Trump family member, campaign operative and White House aide to disclose every detail that might be relevant to the Russian investigations.

That means every meeting with any Russian or any American with Russian business ties. Every phone call or email. And every Trump business relationship with Russians going back years. This should include every relevant part of Mr. Trump’s tax returns, which the President will resist but Mr. Mueller is sure to seek anyway.

Then release it all to the public. Whatever short-term political damage this might cause couldn’t be worse than the death by a thousand cuts of selective leaks, often out of context, from political opponents in Congress or the special counsel’s office. If there really is nothing to the Russia collusion allegations, transparency will prove it. Americans will give Mr. Trump credit for trusting their ability to make a fair judgment. Pre-emptive disclosure is the only chance to contain the political harm from future revelations.

This is the opposite of the Clinton stonewall strategy, which should be instructive. That strategy saved Bill Clinton’s Presidency in the 1990s at a fearsome price and only because the media and Democrats in Congress rallied behind him. Mr. Trump can’t count on the same from Republicans and most of the media want him run out of office.

If Mr. Trump’s approval rating stays under 40% into next year, Republicans will begin to separate themselves from an unpopular President in a (probably forlorn) attempt to save their majorities in Congress. If Democrats win the House, the investigations into every aspect of the Trump business empire, the 2016 campaign and the Administration will multiply. Impeachment will be a constant undercurrent if not an active threat. His supporters will become demoralized.

* * *
Mr. Trump will probably ignore this advice, as he has most of what these columns have suggested. Had he replaced James Comey at the FBI shortly after taking office in January, for example, he might not now have a special counsel threatening him and his family.

Mr. Trump somehow seems to believe that his outsize personality and social-media following make him larger than the Presidency. He’s wrong. He and his family seem oblivious to the brutal realities of Washington politics. Those realities will destroy Mr. Trump, his family and their business reputation unless they change their strategy toward the Russia probe. They don’t have much more time to do it.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-trumps ... 1500332545

[Silver]

If you like your lying, stealing, murdering Swamp Monsters, you can keep them. The Trump administration is no better than several before it. Still advocating for the killing of brown people. You can have your sackcloth and ashes fashions in any color you want, as long as it is gray.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-1 ... t-collapse

Iran To America: Stop Worrying About Us, Your Government Is About To Collapse


by Tyler Durden
Jul 18, 2017 3:10 PM

Authored by Darius Shahtahmasebi via TheAntiMedia.org,

Iranian officials have struck back at the Trump administration’s verbal attacks on Iran, suggesting the U.S. should worry about its own domestic problems before turning a critical eye towards them. According to al-Monitor, an arguably pro-Tehran media site:

"Iranian officials have condemned US Secretary of Defense James Mattis for calling for regime change in Iran. During an interview with a high school newspaper, Mattis said US relations with Tehran will have to wait ‘until the Iranian people can get rid of this theocracy.’

He also referred to Iran as ‘the most destabilizing influence in the Middle East.’ The interview, published June 20, went viral July 10 and was picked up by a number of English-language media outlets.”

Mattis’ statements reek of hypocrisy considering the most extreme theocracies in the Middle East continue to maintain close relationships with the U.S. as the U.S. singles out Iran because of its independent foreign policy interests.

According to al-Monitor, Iranian Defense Minister Hossein Dehghan responded to Mattis’ comments on July 11.

“Instead of making decisions for other countries,” he said, “the secretary of defense and the American ruling party better think about their own domestic issues and review the causes of the collapse of its administration in the not too distant future.”

There are a number of prevailing problems that come to mind when one thinks of the issues plaguing America’s domestic culture, from rampant brutality imposed by its police forces to rising inequality, staggering debt, and the fact that the country elected a racist, misogynistic, warmongering tycoon as its president.

[freedomforall]

TRUMP TICKS OFF MUSLIMS ALL ACROSS AMERICA AFTER CREATING A 3 WEEK LONG CELEBRATION!

[freedomforall]

WOW President Donald Trump's INCREDIBLE Speech To The People Of POLAND 7/6/2017 AMAZING TRUMP SPEECH

[freedomforall]

WATCH President Donald Trump Speech In Paris France Amazing Speech 7/13/2017

[freedomforall]

Trump Just Got $1.6 Billion For Border Wall After Issuing HUGE Threat – You W B W It Came From

[Silver]

The Dr. speaks. We've had war for 100 years. When will America throw off the Gadiantons and seek peace?

https://www.thenewamerican.com/reviews/ ... d-security

Monday, 17 July 2017
Big Military Spending Boost Threatens Our Economy and Security
Written by Ron Paul

Big Military Spending Boost Threatens Our Economy and Security

On Friday the House overwhelmingly approved a massive increase in military spending, passing a $696 billion National Defense Authorization bill for 2018. President Trump’s request already included a huge fifty or so billion dollar spending increase, but the Republican-led House found even that to be far too small. They added another $30 billion to the bill for good measure. Even President Trump, in his official statement, expressed some concern over spending in the House-passed bill.

According to the already weak limitations on military spending increases in the 2011 “sequestration” law, the base military budget for 2018 would be $72 billion more than allowed.

Don’t worry, they’ll find a way to get around that!

The big explosion in military spending comes as the US is planning to dramatically increase its military actions overseas. The president is expected to send thousands more troops back to Afghanistan, the longest war in US history. After nearly 16 years, the Taliban controls more territory than at anytime since the initial US invasion and ISIS is seeping into the cracks created by constant US military action in the country.

The Pentagon and Defense Secretary James Mattis are already telling us that even when ISIS is finally defeated in Iraq, the US military doesn’t dare end its occupation of the country again. Look for a very expensive array of permanent US military bases throughout the country. So much for our 2003 invasion creating a stable democracy, as the neocons promised.

In Syria, the United States has currently established at least eight military bases even though it has no permission to do so from the Syrian government nor does it have a UN resolution authorizing the US military presence there. Pentagon officials have made it clear they will continue to occupy Syrian territory even after ISIS is defeated, to “stabilize” the region.

And let’s not forget that Washington is planning to send the US military back to Libya, another US intervention we were promised would be stabilizing but that turned out to be a disaster.

Also, the drone wars continue in Somalia and elsewhere, as does the US participation in Saudi Arabia’s horrific two year war on impoverished Yemen.

President Trump often makes encouraging statements suggesting that he shares some of our non-interventionist views. For example while Congress was shoveling billions into an already bloated military budget last week, President Trump said that he did not want to spent trillions more dollars in the Middle East where we get “nothing” for our efforts. He’d rather fix roads here in the US, he said. The only reason we are there, he said, was to “get rid of terrorists,” after which we can focus on our problems at home.

Unfortunately President Trump seems to be incapable of understanding that it is US intervention and occupation of foreign countries that creates instability and feeds terrorism. Continuing to do the same thing for more than 17 years — more US bombs to “stabilize” the Middle East — and expecting different results is hardly a sensible foreign policy. It is insanity. Until he realizes that our military empire is the source of rather than the solution to our problems, we will continue to wildly spend on our military empire until the dollar collapses and we are brought to our knees. Then what?

[Silver]

Who will defend Trump now? Let's see if there any good little Luciferians left on LDSFF.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-1 ... nationwide

The Feds Just Expanded Civil Asset Forfeiture 'Laws' Nationwide

Tyler Durden's picture
by Tyler Durden
Jul 19, 2017 6:10 PM

When you're a government agency, asking for a tax increase is always a hassle. As Ryan McMaken notes, for the most part, taxpayers don't like taxes, and if asked if they want to pay more, they're likely to often say "no." Moreover, when public officials pass tax increases, they may face the wrath of taxpayers at the ballot box. For this reason, governments are always looking for ways to get revenue without having to use tax revenue.

One such 'hidden' method of seizing wealth from the taxpayers is through what is now called "civil asset forfeiture."

This occurs when a law enforcement agency seizes the assets - including real estate, cars, cash, and other valuables - from private citizens based merely on the suspicion that the person has committed a crime with the assets in question. No due process is necessary. No conviction in a court of law need occur. While it is technically possible to sue a government agency to reclaim one's possessions, this requires immense amounts of time and legal fees to pursue. Needless to say, civil asset forfeiture has become a lucrative source of income for law enforcement agencies. And, over the past 30 years, the practice has become widespread.

As Martin Armstrong detailed, between 1989 and 2010, U.S. attorneys seized an estimated $12.6 billion in asset forfeiture cases. The growth rate during that time averaged +19.4% annually. In 2010 alone, the value of assets seized grew by +52.8% from 2009 and was six times greater than the total for 1989. Then by 2014, that number had ballooned to roughly $4.5 billion for the year, making this 35% of the entire number of assets collected from 1989 to 2010 in a single year. Now, according to the FBI, the total amount of goods stolen by criminals in 2014 burglary offenses suffered an estimated $3.9 billion in property losses.

This means that the police are now taking more assets than the criminals.

“Civil forfeiture laws represent one of the most serious assaults on private property rights in the nation today. Under civil forfeiture, police and prosecutors can seize your car or other property, sell it and use the proceeds to fund agency budgets—all without so much as charging you with a crime. Unlike criminal forfeiture, where property is taken after its owner has been found guilty in a court of law, with civil forfeiture, owners need not be charged with or convicted of a crime to lose homes, cars, cash or other property. Americans are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but civil forfeiture turns that principle on its head. With civil forfeiture, your property is guilty until you prove it innocent.”

- “ Policing for Profit: The Abuse of Civil Asset Forfeiture,” Institute for Justice
In jolly old England, Robin Hood stole from the rich to give to the poor. But as John Whitehead noted, in modern-day America, greedy government goons steal from the innocent to give to the corrupt under court- and legislature-sanctioned schemes called civil asset forfeiture. This is how the American police state continues to get rich: by stealing from the citizenry.

At every turn, “we the people” are getting swindled, cheated, conned, robbed, raided, pickpocketed, mugged, deceived, defrauded, double-crossed and fleeced by governmental and corporate shareholders of the American police state out to make a profit at taxpayer expense.

President Trump has made it clear his loyalties lie with the police, Attorney General Jeff Sessions has previously declared his love for civil asset forfeiture, the Supreme Court keeps marching in lockstep with the police state, and the police unions don’t want their gravy train to go away, so there’s not much hope for federal reform anytime soon. As always, change will have to begin locally and move upwards.

Some state legislatures (Florida, Michigan, Nebraska, New Mexico, and Ohio) are beginning to push back against these clearly unconstitutional asset forfeiture schemes. As the National Review reports, “New Mexico now requires a criminal conviction before law enforcement can seize property, while police in Florida must prove “beyond reasonable doubt” that property is linked to a crime before it’s seized.”

And it is that pushback that has seemingly pushed the federal government to 'fix' the situation. As Reuters reports, the U.S. Justice Department announced on Wednesday that the federal government will reinstate a program that helps local and state law enforcement seize cash and other assets they suspect have been earned from crimes.

Local police will now be able to seize cash, often from those suspected of drug crimes, even in states that do not condone the policy.

Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein told reporters that most seizures were warranted because the "vast majority" of people who have property taken by police do not contest it in court.

"This is going to enable us to work with local police and our prosecutors to ensure that when assets are lawfully seized they are not returned to criminals," said Rosenstein at a media briefing at the Justice Department.

[iWriteStuff]

Two things to note in this story:

1) An admission that North Korea has the range but not the ability to actually hit us with a missile.
2) That doesn't matter because we should prepare to attack them preemptively anyway.

"And it was because the armies of the Nephites went up unto the Lamanites that they began to be smitten; for were it not for that, the Lamanites could have had no power over them"
- Mormon 4:4

North Korea lacks capacity to hit U.S. with accuracy: U.S. general

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - North Korea does not have the ability to strike the United States with "any degree of accuracy" and while its missiles have the range, they lack the necessary guidance capability, the vice chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff said on Tuesday.

Earlier this month North Korea said it had conducted its first test of an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM), and that it had mastered the technology to mount a nuclear warhead on the missile.

But General Paul Selva, speaking before the Senate Armed Services Committee, said the July 4th test stopped short of showing North Korea had "the capacity to strike the United States with any degree of accuracy or reasonable confidence of success."

Pyongyang's state media said the test successfully verified the atmospheric re-entry of the warhead, which experts say may be able to reach the U.S. state of Alaska.

"What the experts tell me is that the North Koreans have yet to demonstrate the capacity to do the guidance and control that would be required," said Selva, the second highest-ranking U.S. military official.

South Korea's intelligence agency also does not believe North Korea has secured re-entry capabilities for its ICBM program.

South Korea on Monday proposed military talks with North Korea, the first formal overture to Pyongyang by the government of President Moon Jae-in, to discuss ways to avoid hostile acts near the heavily militarized border.

The United States has remained technically at war with North Korea since the 1950-53 Korean conflict ended in an armistice rather than a peace treaty and the past six decades have been punctuated by periodic rises in antagonism and rhetoric that have always stopped short of a resumption of active hostilities.

Tensions have risen sharply after North Korea conducted two nuclear weapons tests last year and carried out a steady stream of ballistic missile tests.

When asked about preemptive military operations against North Korea, Selva said he believed that "we have to entertain that potential option."

"We need to think seriously about what the consequences of that action might be," Selva said.

[Silver]

Interventionism is the problem. Trump continues to intervene and kill brown people. Dr. Ron Paul appears in a 19 minute at the link. Get educated.

https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2017/07/20 ... -in-mosul/

[Doug]

In both the primary and general elections, I did not vote for Trump, I voted against his opposition. But I've changed my vote to be for him. If you seek his failure, you are not in harmony with the teachings of the Prophets concerning government.
And I am also reminded of some biblical events. Like Jesus clearing the temple, as I remember, the persuation came in the form of a whip. I am also aware of the great destruction caused by Saul and even Joshua. And I am even reminded of how The Lord used an evil man such as Cyrus for his purpose. So, while I have no dillusion as to the evils of Pres. Trump, I also appreciate and aplaud his good which is considerably more than any of his campaign opposition since the election.
Oh, and by the way, I haven't seen anyone accuse the liberal media, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, NY Time, the Post, etc with colluding with the truth, there just isnn't any proof of that, So quoting Rachel Maddow carries no value.
So, I support Pres. Trump because he IS the POTUS and The Supreme Commander and encouraging him to do right is far better than to condem him for what he has done when we actually know so very little of the truth of it. He has forced at least some to begin to recognize how corrupt the Obama Administration was and how inept, incompetent, and unaccountable even the GOP in congress actuall are. So I would tell you all, both sides of this Trump Coin, to stop the contentions of this thread and debate what we can do to influence Pres. Trump and Congress to be what Cyrus was, a tool in the hand of Our God to act in our best interests. These contentions prove nothing for or against Pres. Trump, only that we are are willing to be contentious.

[freedomforall]

In both the primary and general elections, I did not vote for Trump, I voted against his opposition. But I've changed my vote to be for him. If you seek his failure, you are not in harmony with the teachings of the Prophets concerning government.
And I am also reminded of some biblical events. Like Jesus clearing the temple, as I remember, the persuation came in the form of a whip. I am also aware of the great destruction caused by Saul and even Joshua. And I am even reminded of how The Lord used an evil man such as Cyrus for his purpose. So, while I have no dillusion as to the evils of Pres. Trump, I also appreciate and aplaud his good which is considerably more than any of his campaign opposition since the election.
Oh, and by the way, I haven't seen anyone accuse the liberal media, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, NY Time, the Post, etc with colluding with the truth, there just isnn't any proof of that, So quoting Rachel Maddow carries no value.
So, I support Pres. Trump because he IS the POTUS and The Supreme Commander and encouraging him to do right is far better than to condem him for what he has done when we actually know so very little of the truth of it. He has forced at least some to begin to recognize how corrupt the Obama Administration was and how inept, incompetent, and unaccountable even the GOP in congress actuall are. So I would tell you all, both sides of this Trump Coin, to stop the contentions of this thread and debate what we can do to influence Pres. Trump and Congress to be what Cyrus was, a tool in the hand of Our God to act in our best interests. These contentions prove nothing for or against Pres. Trump, only that we are are willing to be contentious.

A main goal here is to proddingly persuade everyone for Trump, even from the slightest to exuberantly, to repudiate him, a claim Silver has openly announced several times. Thus, contention, some ill will, back and forth defending, to and fro paradigms along with name calling has ensued.
Thanks for your input. It may be that there will be an even greater challenge than originally thought in changing minds to agree with him who seeks Trumps downfall.

[Silver]

In both the primary and general elections, I did not vote for Trump, I voted against his opposition. But I've changed my vote to be for him. If you seek his failure, you are not in harmony with the teachings of the Prophets concerning government.
And I am also reminded of some biblical events. Like Jesus clearing the temple, as I remember, the persuation came in the form of a whip. I am also aware of the great destruction caused by Saul and even Joshua. And I am even reminded of how The Lord used an evil man such as Cyrus for his purpose. So, while I have no dillusion as to the evils of Pres. Trump, I also appreciate and aplaud his good which is considerably more than any of his campaign opposition since the election.
Oh, and by the way, I haven't seen anyone accuse the liberal media, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, NY Time, the Post, etc with colluding with the truth, there just isnn't any proof of that, So quoting Rachel Maddow carries no value.
So, I support Pres. Trump because he IS the POTUS and The Supreme Commander and encouraging him to do right is far better than to condem him for what he has done when we actually know so very little of the truth of it. He has forced at least some to begin to recognize how corrupt the Obama Administration was and how inept, incompetent, and unaccountable even the GOP in congress actuall are. So I would tell you all, both sides of this Trump Coin, to stop the contentions of this thread and debate what we can do to influence Pres. Trump and Congress to be what Cyrus was, a tool in the hand of Our God to act in our best interests. These contentions prove nothing for or against Pres. Trump, only that we are are willing to be contentious.

You're asking me to support a murderer which I cannot do. You're also ignoring that Trump is doing the same thing as the presidents before him. The trend is not your friend. Also, the country's sovereign debt, corporate debt and personal debt are at record highs. We simply can't continue to be the world's policemen even if the killings were somehow justified. The teachings of the prophets also include Moroni raising the standard of liberty against wickedness.

Whenever my fellow Saints ask me to support the government, it seems they are forgetting these key verses in D&C 134:
2 We believe that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are framed and held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life.

4 We believe that religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others; but we do not believe that human law has a right to interfere in prescribing rules of worship to bind the consciences of men, nor dictate forms for public or private devotion; that the civil magistrate should restrain crime, but never control conscience; should punish guilt, but never suppress the freedom of the soul.

Thanks for participating, but your arguments are not very convincing.

[Silver]

"War crimes" is just a pretty way to say murder, which Trump is guilty of. America is the large and spacious building of our day, and great shall be the fall thereof.

http://theantimedia.org/white-house-war ... sing-down/

White House Closing Down War Crimes Office After Being Accused of War Crimes
July 21, 2017 at 4:41 pm
Written by Darius Shahtahmasebi

(ANTIMEDIA) — Secretary of State Rex Tillerson is reportedly closing a decades-old office in the State Department that has helped pursue justice for victims of war crimes.

The “Office of Global Criminal Justice” advises the secretary of state on issues surrounding war crimes and genocide. It was established by Bill Clinton’s secretary of state, Madeleine Albright, a woman who barely batted an eyelid while overseeing the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children.

According to Newsweek, the office has supported criminal courts in Rwanda, former Yugoslavia, Cambodia, and the Central African Republic. This alone should give one an idea of the office’s intentions and prerogatives: it is often concerned with punishing African nations — as the International Criminal Court (ICC) is often accused of doing — as well as America’s adversaries but also tends to ignore the actions of the United States and its allies.

That being said, the timing of the office’s closure is somewhat suspect. Amnesty International just released a report that heavily implicates the United States in a number of criminal acts in Mosul, Iraq. A credible Kurdish intelligence source also just revealed documents the Independent that show the conflict in Mosul may have resulted in over 40,000 civilian deaths in a nine-month period. No one doubts that ISIS has had a hand in civilian casualties, but we also know from a number of sources that, at the very least, American bombs alone have likely killed at least 4,500 civilians in Mosul, with thousands more still buried under the rubble. Whether we like to admit it or not, the U.S. has killed thousands of civilians in a mere nine-month long conflict.

“It just makes official what has been U.S. policy since 9/11, which is that there will be no notice taken of war crimes because so many of them were being committed by our own allies, our military and intelligence officers and our elected officials,” Maj. Todd E. Pierce, a former judge advocate general and defense attorney at Guantanamo, told Newsweek.

Newsweek also spoke with Amherst College law professor Lawrence Douglas, who specializes in war crimes. Douglas said the move “should be a source of deep regret domestically and cause for grave concern abroad. The closing makes a powerful statement—that the Trump administration cares little about the protection of human rights and nothing about the vital work of international criminal courts. Perpetrators of atrocities the world over will, however, be pleased.”

Clearly, the U.S. has little interest in crimes and atrocities when they’re committed by their own military and their allies. Until the beginning of June this year, the U.S. had only two personnel investigating war crimes in Iraq and Syria full time. The number is now seven.

America’s drone program, which Barack Obama rapidly accelerated and Trump inherited, has also attracted much-needed criticism concerning its legality, as has support for Saudi Arabia’s brutal assault on Yemen. In aiding Saudi Arabia by refueling planes, providing intelligence, sitting in the control and command center, and providing arms and munitions, legal scholars have warned that the U.S. could become a co-belligerent in the war, in turn exposing liability for war crimes.

The Trump administration has shown a keen interest in not only continuing the Saudi-Yemen war but also drastically escalating it in a number of ways.

The U.S. is also implicated in war crimes in Afghanistan and is most likely committing war crimes in Syria – a double-edged war crime because the U.S. has no legal justification to bomb Syrian territory in the first place.

If the U.S. wants to carry on its practices without attracting any legal ramifications, one must wonder why it feels the right to cry foul every time reports come out alleging human rights abuses and criminal acts committed by America’s adversaries.

As Newsweek noted, although the war crimes office’s closure has not yet been confirmed by the State Department, if it is finalized, it would mark just one example of a “wide-ranging overhaul.” For example, the State Department recently closed the Office of the Special Envoy to Monitor and Combat Anti-Semitism even though Donald Trump was legally required to staff the office. Trump is essentially axing these programs so he can justify his proposed massive increase in defense spending, which will ironically likely lead to the U.S. military committing more criminal acts overseas.

If the U.S. wants free reign to keep committing atrocities all over the world, perhaps it should stay quiet when it believes (or wants us to believe) other countries are also engaging in similar behavior. It certainly shouldn’t hold the rest of the world up to the very standards the U.S. government has shown no signs of upholding. The impending closure of a mostly ineffective war crimes office is just the latest example of the U.S. showing virtually no dedication to human rights or holding criminals accountable for their abhorrent actions.

[freedomforall]

In both the primary and general elections, I did not vote for Trump, I voted against his opposition. But I've changed my vote to be for him. If you seek his failure, you are not in harmony with the teachings of the Prophets concerning government.
And I am also reminded of some biblical events. Like Jesus clearing the temple, as I remember, the persuation came in the form of a whip. I am also aware of the great destruction caused by Saul and even Joshua. And I am even reminded of how The Lord used an evil man such as Cyrus for his purpose. So, while I have no dillusion as to the evils of Pres. Trump, I also appreciate and aplaud his good which is considerably more than any of his campaign opposition since the election.
Oh, and by the way, I haven't seen anyone accuse the liberal media, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, NY Time, the Post, etc with colluding with the truth, there just isnn't any proof of that, So quoting Rachel Maddow carries no value.
So, I support Pres. Trump because he IS the POTUS and The Supreme Commander and encouraging him to do right is far better than to condem him for what he has done when we actually know so very little of the truth of it. He has forced at least some to begin to recognize how corrupt the Obama Administration was and how inept, incompetent, and unaccountable even the GOP in congress actuall are. So I would tell you all, both sides of this Trump Coin, to stop the contentions of this thread and debate what we can do to influence Pres. Trump and Congress to be what Cyrus was, a tool in the hand of Our God to act in our best interests. These contentions prove nothing for or against Pres. Trump, only that we are are willing to be contentious.

You're asking me to support a murderer which I cannot do. You're also ignoring that Trump is doing the same thing as the presidents before him. The trend is not your friend. Also, the country's sovereign debt, corporate debt and personal debt are at record highs. We simply can't continue to be the world's policemen even if the killings were somehow justified. The teachings of the prophets also include Moroni raising the standard of liberty against wickedness.

Whenever my fellow Saints ask me to support the government, it seems they are forgetting these key verses in D&C 134:
2 We believe that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are framed and held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life.

4 We believe that religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others; but we do not believe that human law has a right to interfere in prescribing rules of worship to bind the consciences of men, nor dictate forms for public or private devotion; that the civil magistrate should restrain crime, but never control conscience; should punish guilt, but never suppress the freedom of the soul.

Thanks for participating, but your arguments are not very convincing. And yours are? :)) Just how many forum members have congregated around your arguments and held them viable? 1 maybe 2?

[freedomforall]

The U.S. is also implicated in war crimes in Afghanistan and is most likely committing war crimes in Syria – a double-edged war crime because the U.S. has no legal justification to bomb Syrian territory in the first place.

Are you going to run for POTUS in 2020?

BTW, what does "most likely" mean to you? Does it mean" are in fact committing?" Does it mean "could be?" Or does it mean "maybe" they are etc., or "not sure?"

This is a huge strawman. :-ss

[Silver]

In both the primary and general elections, I did not vote for Trump, I voted against his opposition. But I've changed my vote to be for him. If you seek his failure, you are not in harmony with the teachings of the Prophets concerning government.
And I am also reminded of some biblical events. Like Jesus clearing the temple, as I remember, the persuation came in the form of a whip. I am also aware of the great destruction caused by Saul and even Joshua. And I am even reminded of how The Lord used an evil man such as Cyrus for his purpose. So, while I have no dillusion as to the evils of Pres. Trump, I also appreciate and aplaud his good which is considerably more than any of his campaign opposition since the election.
Oh, and by the way, I haven't seen anyone accuse the liberal media, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, NY Time, the Post, etc with colluding with the truth, there just isnn't any proof of that, So quoting Rachel Maddow carries no value.
So, I support Pres. Trump because he IS the POTUS and The Supreme Commander and encouraging him to do right is far better than to condem him for what he has done when we actually know so very little of the truth of it. He has forced at least some to begin to recognize how corrupt the Obama Administration was and how inept, incompetent, and unaccountable even the GOP in congress actuall are. So I would tell you all, both sides of this Trump Coin, to stop the contentions of this thread and debate what we can do to influence Pres. Trump and Congress to be what Cyrus was, a tool in the hand of Our God to act in our best interests. These contentions prove nothing for or against Pres. Trump, only that we are are willing to be contentious.

You're asking me to support a murderer which I cannot do. You're also ignoring that Trump is doing the same thing as the presidents before him. The trend is not your friend. Also, the country's sovereign debt, corporate debt and personal debt are at record highs. We simply can't continue to be the world's policemen even if the killings were somehow justified. The teachings of the prophets also include Moroni raising the standard of liberty against wickedness.

Whenever my fellow Saints ask me to support the government, it seems they are forgetting these key verses in D&C 134:
2 We believe that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are framed and held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life.

4 We believe that religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others; but we do not believe that human law has a right to interfere in prescribing rules of worship to bind the consciences of men, nor dictate forms for public or private devotion; that the civil magistrate should restrain crime, but never control conscience; should punish guilt, but never suppress the freedom of the soul.

Thanks for participating, but your arguments are not very convincing. And yours are? :)) Just how many forum members have congregated around your arguments and held them viable? 1 maybe 2?

One more time, FFA, you mock in vain. I'm not interested in being popular. Popularity is never a test of truth, as President Benson said. I don't care if every person on LDSFF disagrees with me. Trump is a murderer. A lying murderer.

[Silver]

Tell great big whoppers. That's what politicians do. Some real estate guys in New York are also good liars -- The Marmalade and President Kushner in particular.

NAFTA. Oh yeah, Trump is going to make NAFTA all better. Not. Because he's a liar. And a murderer.

https://www.thenewamerican.com/world-ne ... overeignty

Thursday, 20 July 2017
NAFTA Renegotiation Objectives Would Diminish U.S. Sovereignty
Written by Steve Byas

During his successful bid for the White House, President Donald Trump gave hope to many Americans that he was going to — as he put it himself — “put America First” when it came to trade deals, including the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). Trump called NAFTA “the worst trade deal maybe ever signed anywhere, but certainly ever signed in this country.”

This week, U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) Robert Lighthizer [Note by Silver: https://www.cfr.org/membership-roster-l-p At that link you can find Lighthizer's name on the CFR roster. That's right, Trump supporters, the very people who want to destroy American sovereignty are negotiating NAFTA for us. Why do you continue to trust The Marmalade?] released the renegotiation objectives for a new NAFTA deal, and a close look at those objectives raises many concerns from Americans about U.S. business and jobs, and most critically, American national sovereignty.

The first renegotiation meetings are scheduled for August 16-20 in Washington, D.C.

In the introduction to the “Summary of Objectives for the NAFTA Renegotiation” released this week, we read, “Since the deal came into force in 1994, trade deficits have exploded, thousands of factories have closed, and millions of Americans have found themselves stranded, no longer able to utilize the skills for which they had been trained … In June 2016, then-candidate Donald J. Trump made a promise to the American people: he would renegotiate NAFTA or take us out of the agreement.”

Faced with that binary choice, it is not surprising that globalists chose renegotiation.

“The new NAFTA must continue to break down barriers to American exports,” the introduction continues. “This includes the elimination of unfair subsidies, market-distorting practices by state-owned enterprises, and burdensome restrictions on intellectual property.... Most importantly, the new NAFTA will promote a market system that functions more efficiently, leading to reciprocal and balanced trade among the parties.”

Sadly, nothing is said about protecting the national sovereignty of the United States.

Perhaps the closest the summary of objectives comes to addressing the sovereignty question is in the section about “Sanitary and Phytosanitary Measures (SPS).” In this section, it is asserted that it will be made “clear that each country can set for itself the level of protection it believes to be appropriate to protect food safety, and plant and animal health in a manner consistent with its international obligations.” On first glance, this appears to acknowledge that each nation is “sovereign” in making the decisions it believes it needs to make in regard to the level of protection for “food safety,” but it then contradicts that very statement by asserting it needs to do so “consistent with its international obligations.”

In other words, this would obligate the United States to following “international obligations,” which would supersede decisions made independently by the United States government, through its constitutional processes.

In the section on “Technical Barriers to Trade (TBT),” the objective is even more explicit in subordinating the parties, including the United States, to international obligations. The first objective in this section would “Require NAFTA countries to apply decisions and recommendations adopted by the WTO [World Trade Organization] TBT Committee that apply, inter alia, to standards, conformity, assessment, transparency, and other areas.” (Inter alia is a Latin phrase meaning “and other things,” and in this context, would mean that the United States, Canada, and Mexico would be further obligated to follow economic regulations of the WTO.) Again, this is a further limitation on American national sovereignty.

References to following the sovereignty-restricting rules of the WTO permeate the listing of objectives.

While multilateral trade agreements generally are presented as somehow based on the concept of “free enterprise,” they are actually better examples of government-managed trade, and NAFTA as it is presently constituted, and under these objectives, would continue to give power to government (in this case, a multinational government) to regulate private enterprise.

For example, the objectives would “Require NAFTA countries to have laws governing acceptable conditions of work with respect to minimum wages, hours of work, and occupational safety and health.” A true conservative free market advocate would not even consider government price controls (as in the case of minimum wages), knowing that they lead to market distortions. With minimum wages, for example, it leads to a surplus of labor and presents a barrier to the work force for many low-skilled and inexperienced workers. Why should this be part of a new NAFTA agreement, if its purpose had anything to do with free markets?

The globalist philosophy in these objectives is very clear, as it states that a new NAFTA will “establish rules that will ensure that NAFTA countries do not fail to effectively enforce their labor laws implementing internationally recognized core labor standards and acceptable conditions of work with respect to minimum wages, hours of work, and occupational safety and health laws.” (Emphasis added.) In other words, if you understand that OSHA in the United States is a prime example of government control of private business, why would you want international “standards” placed on the backs of business?

Globalism is a concept that is ubiquitous in the objectives. Under “Environment,” this philosophy is evident: “Require NAFTA countries to adopt and maintain measures implementing their obligations under select Multilateral Environment Agreements (MEAS).”

Larry Greenley, director of missions for The John Birch Society, parent organization of The New American, issued the following statement today regarding USTR Robert Lighthizer's "Summary of Objectives for the NAFTA Renegotiation":

Beware when you read anything from the United States Trade Representative (USTR) about the NAFTA renegotiations. The USTR will portray these negotiations as all about trade and jobs; however, what’s really at stake is our national independence and personal freedom. For example, the USTR’s “Summary of Objectives for the NAFTA Renegotiation” appears to be all about “maintaining and improving market access for American agriculture, manufacturing, and services,” when it is actually all about creating a supranational level of government, commonly referred to as the North American Union, which would administer and enforce the myriad rules contained in the “new NAFTA” agreement. This is the kind of deception that was used to transform the European Common Market from a free-trade bloc into a supranational European Union presiding over 28 formerly independent European nations.

In short, rather than renegotiate NAFTA, a classic example of multinational government-controlled trade, it would be better to simply scrap the agreement altogether. The John Birch Society is urging its members and all other citizens concerned about the loss of America’s independence to contact the White House and Congress and “tell them no renegotiation, just Get US Out! of NAFTA.”

[koiseptember]

I would not classify what he is doing as murder. There is a great distinction between willfully taking the life of another and collateral damage that happens in war. I think it is legitimate to debate whether force should be used. Either it is morally correct to use force in a given instance or it is not. We shouldn't call someone a murderer because an innocent dies in said use of force.

goldenslot

[freedomforall]

What You’re About To SEE CAN'T be UNSEEN! EXPLOSIVE Interview w/Lord Monckton Will STIFFEN The NWO

[Silver]

President Kushner got $200 million from Soros for his real estate firm, Cadre. Do you want that kind of kid walking around the White House?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-2 ... ize-europe

Hungary's Orban: EU And "Soros Mafia Network" Are Seeking To "Muslimize Europe"

by Tyler Durden
Jul 22, 2017 4:02 PM

The war of words between Hungary's outspoken prime minister Viktor Orban and liberal billionaire George Soros escalated to previously unseen levels on Saturday, when the Hungarian PM said that European Union leaders and Soros are seeking a "new, mixed, Muslimized Europe," however during a visit to Romania, Orban said that Hungary's border fences, supported by other Central European countries, will block the EU-Soros effort to increase Muslim migration into Europe.

Slamming the Hungarian-born billionaire who has been accused by the Hungarian government of using his vast wealth to fund pro-mass migration organizations to create a “new, mixed, Muslimized Europe”, Orban said Brussels was in an “alliance against the people’s will” with the financier.

In further defiance to Brussles, Orban said that while Hungary opposed taking in migrants "who could change the country's cultural identity," Hungary would remain a place where "Western European Christians will always be able to find security", AP quoted the prime minister.

Laying out his vision for a future Europe without the influence of Soros, Orban said: “In order for Europe to be able to live, it has to win back its sovereignty from the Soros Empire… Once this is done, migrants must be taken back outside the EU. It sounds strict, but those who came illegally, must be transported back,” Prime Minister Orbán said. “We have to admit that the European continent cannot remain unprotected.”

Discussing immigration to Hungary in a speech that came just days after his government announced the total requests submitted for Hungarian citizenships had hit one million, Orban also said he would continue to oppose migrants “who could change the country’s cultural identity”.

As long as I remain the prime minister, the fence will stay in place. We will protect Hungary and Europe. We can never be in solidarity with ideals, peoples and ethnic groups who set out with the goal to change European culture… because the end result is collapse.

Will Europe be inhabited by Europeans? Will Hungary be inhabited by Hungarians, Germany by Germans, France by the French, Italy by Italians? Who will live in Europe?
Orban also discussed the upcoming political campaign: the Hungarian, who will seek a fourth term in April 2018, said his nation's opposition parties were no match for his government. "In the upcoming campaign, first of all we have to confront external powers," Orban said at a cultural festival in Baile Tusnad, Romania. "We have to stand our ground against the Soros mafia network and the Brussels bureaucrats. And, during the next nine months, we will have to fight against the media they operate."

As reported here over the past 6 months, George Soros has become a key target of Orban and his government (and most recently, Israel too). Recent Hungarian legislation seeks to close or expel Soros' Budapest-based Central European University, founded by the billionaire in 1991.

There are also new rules about non-governmental organizations funded at least partly from abroad - which critics say stigmatize the NGOs, many of which are backed by Soros' Open Society Foundations.
Orban repeated his recurring accusation that Soros-funded NGOs want to weaken Hungary's security with their advocacy for asylum-seekers and said Hungary had managed to stop the "migrant invasion" with razor-wire fences on its borders with Serbia and Croatia. It's not just Hungary: last week, Gefira exposed what it believes is a major Soros-sponsored Immigration network in Italy.