Good Behavior Trump Debate Thread

[ajax]

Would the posters prefer "killer" over "murderer"?

Or is there another preferred term? (more than likely vague and whitewashed)

I believe the preferred term of art is "threat neutralizer" or "collateralizer".

Works for us, not for the survivors of family members killed.

[larsenb]

You are tooooo much Silver. Even when the man does a good thing for this nation by withdrawing from this shameful communist driven climate change crapola you find a way to downplay it and lessen its significance. You are so consumed with negativity toward the guy that you refuse to acknowledge any good whatsoever. I am beginning to think you listen to to much Rachel Maddow and friends at msnbc. You seem to be right in line with their constant barrage of accusations and negativity. Come clean man. Are you a closet CNNer?

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles ... ignty.html

Mark, that's ridiculous. Ezra Taft Benson is my hero. I thoroughly revel in the writings of H. Verlan Andersen. W. Cleon Skousen had a huge influence on me. What you call negativity is merely the truth. If I have stated something that is incorrect, attack that, not me.

I took a Constitution-based class from Cleon, and doubt very much he would ascribe to your incredibly black-and-what view of Trump . . . or reality, for that matter. And I would guess ET Benson would have the same attitude, with both of them overjoyed that Trump revealed the most important political battle of our time: Globalism vs. independent, Constitution-based nationalism . . . and on an international scale, to the point that it has been brought into the open for public discussion. And they would laud him for other things he has said and is doing.

Yeah, larsen, you know me. I'm ruthlessly black-and-white when it comes to murder. I need to learn to be more tolerant.

All you've stated in your post this time is that you and I have a different opinion. You continue to blithely ignore that Trump's cabinet is filled with globalists and so our parallel lines will never meet. A house divided against itself cannot stand. So, no, President Benson would not have the same attitude as you seeing how the Gadiantons have not lost any of their strength.

You are extremely black-and-white when it comes to Trump. I can't really assess how this transfers to any other views you have.

And Benson would certainly give Trump credit for deep-sixing TPP, for getting us out of the Paris Climate Treaty, for outing the Globalist push (knowledge is power; heretofore, this whole topic has been tabu and sub rosa), for putting in place regulations forbidding Cabinet members from post-position lobbying, for at least pushing for NATO members to pay their fair share, for bringing our utilization of natural resources back from death; for calling the lying MSM news media a spade and going up against them, for trying to bring jobs back to the US, for taking the first step to neutralize the Johnson Ammendment, for trying to normalize relations with Russia, for abrogating Obama regulations undermining businesses etc., etc.

[ajax]

Silver's scorn of the President is exactly how is should be. Imperial presidents and politics should be ignored and resisted by local communities. Looking to that position and national politics in general as agents of change is completely missing the point of the republic (small r). The states are the fourth branch of government, and the most important I might add, as they created the general government, and they should be flipping the bird to D.C. much more often than they do.

[Silver]

Well it looks like you agree with Silver and his constant rant about Trump being a murderer. If you are speaking in and of yourself fine, however, I see you pushing the thanks button in support of Silver. What other conclusion can be made?

Can we please discuss the issues without pressuring others for their political views?

My sense is that this is exactly what you are doing with your incessant 'Trump is a murderer' meme. Serragon already gave you a reasonable alternative view: "~A murderer is someone who deliberately sets out to murder innocent people". Trump does not fit this category.

It is quite a different thing for me to point out the murderous ways of Trump in multiple posts which any of you can ignore (if you weren't so obsessed with me) and for FFA to single out iWriteStuff and pester him for holding a view similar to mine.

[Silver]

Mark, that's ridiculous. Ezra Taft Benson is my hero. I thoroughly revel in the writings of H. Verlan Andersen. W. Cleon Skousen had a huge influence on me. What you call negativity is merely the truth. If I have stated something that is incorrect, attack that, not me.

I took a Constitution-based class from Cleon, and doubt very much he would ascribe to your incredibly black-and-what view of Trump . . . or reality, for that matter. And I would guess ET Benson would have the same attitude, with both of them overjoyed that Trump revealed the most important political battle of our time: Globalism vs. independent, Constitution-based nationalism . . . and on an international scale, to the point that it has been brought into the open for public discussion. And they would laud him for other things he has said and is doing.

Yeah, larsen, you know me. I'm ruthlessly black-and-white when it comes to murder. I need to learn to be more tolerant.

All you've stated in your post this time is that you and I have a different opinion. You continue to blithely ignore that Trump's cabinet is filled with globalists and so our parallel lines will never meet. A house divided against itself cannot stand. So, no, President Benson would not have the same attitude as you seeing how the Gadiantons have not lost any of their strength.

You are extremely black-and-white when it comes to Trump. I can't really assess how this transfers to any other views you have.

And Benson would certainly give Trump credit for deep-sixing TPP, for getting us out of the Paris Climate Treaty, for outing the Globalist push (knowledge is power; heretofore, this whole topic has been tabu and sub rosa), for putting in place regulations forbidding Cabinet members from post-position lobbying, for at least pushing for NATO members to pay their fair share, for bringing our utilization of natural resources back from death; for calling the lying MSM news media a spade and going up against them, for trying to bring jobs back to the US, for taking the first step to neutralize the Johnson Ammendment, for trying to normalize relations with Russia, for abrogating Obama regulations undermining businesses etc., etc.

Trump's Cabinet members are billionaires and millionaires. Fuzzy-headed logic has them worrying about putting 3 squares on the table after they leave the administration.

Since Trump chose the Globalists that work in his Cabinet, he is not outing anything. He's proving that the Globalists no longer fear public scrutiny.

Let Trump pull out all the troops from Europe if he's serious about other NATO members pulling their own weight.

The MSM is owned by those same globalists mentioned above. They are very happy to receive eyeballs and clicks from the sheeple who think the media is opposed to Trump.

Kissinger goes to Russia; Kissinger goes to the Oval Office...I see a pattern developing here.

I need to learn more about the Johnson Amendment, but I'd say your batting average is kinda low. Got anything else?

[larsenb]

Silver's scorn of the President is exactly how is should be. Imperial presidents and politics should be ignored and resisted by local communities. Looking to that position and national politics in general as agents of change is completely missing the point of the republic (small r). The states are the fourth branch of government, and the most important I might add, as they created the general government, and they should be flipping the bird to D.C. much more often than they do.

Not really, to your first sentence. Can't say I disagree with the rest. Unfortunately, we're in a different reality than we were at the founding of the country and for several decades, thereafter.

Not to say that we shouldn't keep working to get back to the 'garden' and trying to find ways to do so.

[larsenb]

I took a Constitution-based class from Cleon, and doubt very much he would ascribe to your incredibly black-and-what view of Trump . . . or reality, for that matter. And I would guess ET Benson would have the same attitude, with both of them overjoyed that Trump revealed the most important political battle of our time: Globalism vs. independent, Constitution-based nationalism . . . and on an international scale, to the point that it has been brought into the open for public discussion. And they would laud him for other things he has said and is doing.

Yeah, larsen, you know me. I'm ruthlessly black-and-white when it comes to murder. I need to learn to be more tolerant.

All you've stated in your post this time is that you and I have a different opinion. You continue to blithely ignore that Trump's cabinet is filled with globalists and so our parallel lines will never meet. A house divided against itself cannot stand. So, no, President Benson would not have the same attitude as you seeing how the Gadiantons have not lost any of their strength.

You are extremely black-and-white when it comes to Trump. I can't really assess how this transfers to any other views you have.

And Benson would certainly give Trump credit for deep-sixing TPP, for getting us out of the Paris Climate Treaty, for outing the Globalist push (knowledge is power; heretofore, this whole topic has been tabu and sub rosa), for putting in place regulations forbidding Cabinet members from post-position lobbying, for at least pushing for NATO members to pay their fair share, for bringing our utilization of natural resources back from death; for calling the lying MSM news media a spade and going up against them, for trying to bring jobs back to the US, for taking the first step to neutralize the Johnson Ammendment, for trying to normalize relations with Russia, for abrogating Obama regulations undermining businesses etc., etc.

Trump's Cabinet members are billionaires and millionaires. Fuzzy-headed logic has them worrying about putting 3 squares on the table after they leave the administration.

Since Trump chose the Globalists that work in his Cabinet, he is not outing anything. He's proving that the Globalists no longer fear public scrutiny.

Let Trump pull out all the troops from Europe if he's serious about other NATO members pulling their own weight.

The MSM is owned by those same globalists mentioned above. They are very happy to receive eyeballs and clicks from the sheeple who think the media is opposed to Trump.

Kissinger goes to Russia; Kissinger goes to the Oval Office...I see a pattern developing here.

I need to learn more about the Johnson Amendment, but I'd say your batting average is kinda low. Got anything else?

There's more. Heck of a lot better than anything from the last 5 Presidents. Like I say, if Trump keeps supporting and doing things that fit the globalist agenda, he will lose his political support. Not much you or I can do about it at this point.

And remember, Trump's political base don't see him in the black-and-white way you do. They know he's a mix and a gamble. Why beat your head against the wall? However, maybe calling his support base names makes you feel better.

If you really want to depress yourself about 'our awful situation', go read some of the offerings from Clint Richardson at his realityblog.com: https://realitybloger.wordpress.com/, with focus on CAFARs, etc., and how we're all nothing but 'strawmen' unless and until we 'reclaim our individual sovereignty'.

[larsenb]

Well it looks like you agree with Silver and his constant rant about Trump being a murderer. If you are speaking in and of yourself fine, however, I see you pushing the thanks button in support of Silver. What other conclusion can be made?

Can we please discuss the issues without pressuring others for their political views?

My sense is that this is exactly what you are doing with your incessant 'Trump is a murderer' meme. Serragon already gave you a reasonable alternative view: "~A murderer is someone who deliberately sets out to murder innocent people". Trump does not fit this category.

It is quite a different thing for me to point out the murderous ways of Trump in multiple posts which any of you can ignore (if you weren't so obsessed with me) and for FFA to single out iWriteStuff and pester him for holding a view similar to mine.

Its not so much as being obsessed with you, per se, it's more like being irritated at your incessant fixation on 'Trump the murderer'. . . . which of course only continues your intense dislike of the man well before he was elected President. You've just found what you think is a more potent peg to hang your dislike on.

[ajax]

larsenb, if not murderer, what else? Killer? Destroyer? Terminator?

[larsenb]

larsenb, if not murderer, what else? Killer? Destroyer? Terminator?

I've already mentioned why 'murderer', and thus, killer, destroyer, terminator, don't quite fill the bill. Go back and read my posts on this, as well as those by Serragon.

[larsenb]

Well, back to work for a few hours. I'll check on you boys, later on.

[Silver]

larsenb,
Nobody can justify the sales of more weapons to Saudi Arabia. He's a murderer. That pretty much negates any benefits of the Johnson Amendment.

[Silver]

larsenb, if not murderer, what else? Killer? Destroyer? Terminator?

I've already mentioned why 'murderer', and thus, killer, destroyer, terminator, don't quite fill the bill. Go back and read my posts on this, as well as those by Serragon.

“That which we persist in doing becomes easier to do, not that the nature of the thing has changed but that our power to do has increased.”
― Ralph Waldo Emerson

Emerson's quote could be applied to many human activities, you know, like murder, and making excuses for murder.

Would everyone like to know why what Trump has done is murder? Because if I went to Syria and did the same thing with a knife that Trump did with a missile, I would be arrested and tried for murder. That which is not lawful for me to do on my own is not lawful for a group of individuals to do together.

[eddie]

larsenb, if not murderer, what else? Killer? Destroyer? Terminator?

And if the pointed finger was turned the other way?

Terrorist Sympathizer, Un-American, Snowflake, Scardy Cat, Nerd Alert, I'm getting off track but you get my point?

[freedomforall]

Well it looks like you agree with Silver and his constant rant about Trump being a murderer. If you are speaking in and of yourself fine, however, I see you pushing the thanks button in support of Silver. What other conclusion can be made?

Can we please discuss the issues without pressuring others for their political views? Whatever is good for the goose is also good for the gander. Or is it monkey see, monkey do?

My sense is that this is exactly what you are doing with your incessant 'Trump is a murderer' meme. Serragon already gave you a reasonable alternative view: "~A murderer is someone who deliberately sets out to murder innocent people". Trump does not fit this category.

It is quite a different thing for me to point out the murderous ways of Trump in multiple posts which any of you can ignore (if you weren't so obsessed with me) and for FFA to single out iWriteStuff and pester him for holding a view similar to mine. Let's face it, a very bright, flashing light does draw attention to itself. And because others say something against it, it now becomes an obsession on their part?
Having a view doesn't mean it has to be shouted out over a megaphone every hour on the hour as a method of drawing attention, and then having the gall to accuse others of having an obsession. #-o

[freedomforall]

Well it looks like you agree with Silver and his constant rant about Trump being a murderer. If you are speaking in and of yourself fine, however, I see you pushing the thanks button in support of Silver. What other conclusion can be made?

Can we please discuss the issues without pressuring others for their political views?

Simply put.......NO! Just what is it you're spewing? Even politicians stand up and say listen to me, but keep your opinions and statements to yourself because my opinions are better than yours and I do not want to be contradicted.

A person in total darkness cannot see themselves. But another person can shine a light on them and not like what they see. Therein they have three choices...1) shout out everything that is seen and not liked every hour on the hour, 2) turn away and not make a nuisance of themselves by drawing attention to that which they saw, or 3) bring to light any good qualities, assets or characteristics.

[Silver]

Everything below the link was written by Timothy Bancroft-Hinchey

http://www.pravdareport.com/opinion/col ... urderer-0/

You are a murderer, Mr. Trump

Now, Mr. Trump. This week you ordered an attack on a sovereign nation without the nod from Congress and without any process in the United Nations Organization. Under international law, you are allowed to strike a nation if it represents an immediate and direct threat to your own and this not being the case, and given that the attack which you yourself ordered occasioned, according to reports, between five and nine victims, then you are guilty of an act of murder.

I am not trying to be funny. I am stating a fact. In perpetrating this crime, you are also a criminal. A criminal and a mass murderer. How does it feel when you wake up in the morning, look at yourself in the mirror and realize that you yourself are responsible for the murders of firemen who were working hard to put out the blazes created by your missiles, how does it feel to realize that you murdered soldiers whose only crime was to fight terrorists?

Is that the respect you give to emergency services workers laying their lives on the line to help others? Is this the respect you give to soldiers fighting terrorist filth armed, aided and abetted in many cases by your own country or its disgusting allies in the Middle East (the Gulf Cooperation Council, those fat Saudis who are ohhhh! so pious at home then fly off to Casablanca and sodomize seven-year-old boys, comatose on whisky)?
Do you know how much money you spent on your murderous, silly little knee-jerk escapade? You spent around one hundred million dollars of taxpayers' money. It was not your own money, it was paid by your people, hard-working decent folk earning a decent and honest living paying their taxes hopefully to receive healthcare, schooling for their kids and so on. And what do you do? You take a hundred million dollars and launch 59 Tomahawk missiles, destroy a cafeteria where they say a lady was murdered as she cleaned the floor, some buildings, part of an apron (beside the runway) and a hangar or two where some aircraft were being repaired. 36 of the 59 missiles failed to reach their targets, 23 exploded. So you blew around 60 million bucks on nothing and the rest on your criminal act of murder.

Now you probably never thought about this so sit down, shut up for a second and for once in your life, listen. I know you took that decision from thousands of miles away and I know you took it convinced "Assad" had launched chemical weapons against kids. And I understand that as a father and a family man, you were shocked and in your new position could do something about it and did. We'll get to that in a moment.
You are a murderer and a criminal

But first, I am calling you a murderer and a criminal because you are. Those people you murdered were just doing their jobs. They were mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, grandchildren. They had families. You destroyed them willingly, recklessly and wantonly, but you committed an act of murder.

Now when a missile like that explodes, pay attention please, I am speaking. When a missile like that explodes, and you will remember this every time you wake up, every time you go to bed and during the night. You will not block out the image because the more you try, the stronger it will become; when a missile like this explodes, the human body has zero resistance. So what happens, and what happened to the people you murdered, stop looking away I am telling you what you have done, what happened to the people you murdered was that the blast from the missiles compressed their bodies. They probably had just enough time to taste blood as their organs exploded.

When the liver explodes, a torrent of blood is vomited out of the mouth as the victim writhes around in agony, gushing forth a river of blood like a fountain. This happened without any doubt to the people you murdered. You probably didn't think of this did you? So these mothers, fathers, sons and daughters felt this moment of pain. The spleens ruptured, the eyes exploded in their heads. Just imagine that. Did you ever, when you were building golf courses, stop for a minute to think that one day, you would do this to innocent people??

Then as these victims were falling to the ground in a sea of excrement, vomit and blood, their airways closed up, seared by the heat and their lungs literally cooked from the inside. So there would have been chapped lips, the head tilted slightly upwards, the throat raw as the airways burnt inside them and then some saliva coughed up in a racking cough, already with blood and lung tissue cast forth. Just imagine getting some of that on your shirt during a state banquet. Yeah and just before these horrific symptoms, the ear drums exploded at 3.4 PSI (pounds of pressure per square inch), so they would hear a ringing just before their eyes burst and then at 40 PSI the lungs and livers ruptured, while at 220 PSI the body basically disintegrated into a pile of liquid and fragmented bones. Just imagine that, Mr. Trump. That is what you did to firefighters, soldiers and apparently a cleaning lady. Some say a few kids as well. They would have gone much faster, so they were eliminated as risks to your country within seconds. Legitimate targets all of them of course?

So then fragments of shrapnel traveling at 1,500 miles per hour rammed into what was left of these bodies. Just imagine the body of your wife, or children, as shards of metal tore them to pieces, launched by someone identical to yourself? How does that make you feel Mr. Trump?
You occasioned primary, secondary, tertiary and quarternary injuries in your victims before they died. Today their families are mourning. I bet that have their hands on their hearts, a picture of your face on the wall and are singing God Bless AmeriKKKa.

Now to get back to the rest, and the background before your short-sighted, puerile, petulant, narcissistic piece of stupidity. I haven't finished yet, don't slouch. And stop fiddling with your tie. Sit up straight.

So first, as regards Russia, you have a country with a mature, balanced President who for years has taken decisions based upon international law, following this to the letter. You have a President with a popularity rating more than double, at least, that of yourself and your allies, those sickening European sycophants crawling up your legs asking for favors.

You are a criminal, a murderer and a terrorist

So the notion that Russia could be in any way involved in any sort of chemical attack is risible and casts more aspersions on those levelling the claim than the intended victim. It's like calling the Virgin Mary a whore. Chuckling, eh? Yes but it isn't very funny Donald. Murdering people is a crime, murdering people with missiles is an act of terrorism. You are a criminal, a murderer and a terrorist, Mr. Trump, under any national or international law.

I say so not with any intention of humiliating you as a person but rather to make you aware of what you have done, believing, still, that we can turn this around. Well, maybe not believing. Hoping?

And secondly as regards Bashar al-Assad, he is the most popular political figure in Syria. You can call him a dictator, because your services call him so, you can call him what you like but the fact is, and you know this, or should know this, that over seventy per cent of Syrians want Bashar al-Assad as their leader. Google up Syrian elections.

He is not a dictator, he is a very nice man, a family man like yourself, whose only "crime" is to dare to defend his country against international terrorism and in this your country, and your lapdogs, are sponsors of the Syrian opposition. Terrorists.

Now you have to know this, Mr. Trump. Do you know what these terrorists do? No, no, I am not speaking about ISIS - they're the remnants of the Ba'athist Party military in Iraq, Sunni puppets of your allies in the GCC (see above) and a host of international mercenaries and nutjobs - no, I am speaking about your western-backed "moderate" terrorists.

[Silver]

Some people seem to be quite "fixated" on my assertions. Let's see what President Trump says about these matters.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/04/politics/ ... mir-putin/

Trump defends Putin: 'You think our country's so innocent?'

By Sophie Tatum, CNN
Updated 3:30 PM ET, Mon February 6, 2017

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump appeared to equate US actions with the authoritarian regime of Russian President Vladimir Putin in an interview released Saturday, saying, "There are a lot of killers. You think our country's so innocent?"

Trump made the remark during an interview with Fox News' Bill O'Reilly, saying he respected his Russian counterpart.

"But he's a killer," O'Reilly said to Trump.

"There are a lot of killers. You think our country's so innocent?" Trump replied.

A clip of the exchange was released Saturday and the full interview aired Sunday before the Super Bowl.

It was an unusual assertion coming from the President of the United States. Trump himself, however, has made similar points before.
"He's running his country and at least he's a leader, unlike what we have in this country," Trump told MSNBC's "Morning Joe" in December 2015.

He continued, "I think our country does plenty of killing also, Joe, so you know. There's a lot of stupidity going on in the world right now, a lot of killing, a lot of stupidity," Trump said.

Russia would "prefer to receive apologies from such a respected TV company" following O'Reilly's remarks, according to Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov.

"We think that such words from a correspondent of the Fox News network are unacceptable, offensive, and we would, honestly, prefer to receive apologies from such a respected TV company," Peskove said in a response to a CNN question during a telephone news conference. "As to the statement of the US president, in this case I would prefer to leave it without any comment."

US Rep. Adam Schiff, a California Democrat who serves on the House Intelligence Committee, called Trump's claim false.

"This is the second time Trump has defended Putin against the charge that he's a killer by saying in effect that the US is no better or different," Schiff told CNN. "This is as inexplicably bizarre as it is untrue. Does he not see the damage he does with comments like that, and the gift he gives to Russian propaganda?"

In the interview with O'Reilly, Trump noted that just because he respects someone "doesn't mean I'm going to get along with them."

"He's a leader of his country and I say it's better to get along with Russia than not, and if Russia helps us in the fight against ISIS, which is a major fight, and Islamic terrorism all over the world, a major fight -- that's a good thing. Will I get along with them? I have no idea," Trump said.

[Silver]

So instead of encouraging Trump and his warmongering comrades, we need him to stop bombing other sovereign countries where we have no business to be. Stop the murders before the blowback events turn into full-scale war.

http://dailywesterner.com/news/2017-02- ... out-trump/

Russia is Starting to Worry about Trump
InternationalFebruary 4, 2017

A top Russian official is worried about the team of advisers surrounding President Donald Trump, who reportedly seem to be pushing him into alarming and aggressive rhetoric against Iran and China.

Konstantin Kosachev, who serves as chairman of the International Affairs Committee of the Federation Council, said in a statement reported by Russian news agency Interfax that the Trump administration’s stance on Iran and China could harm U.S. relations with Russia.

“As is known, the Trump team has brought together quite a lot of people who have for a long time and consistently held tough anti-Iranian positions,” Kosachev said.

“Unfortunately, they are actively influencing Trump, forcing him into bellicose rhetoric at the very least. And this is quite an alarming trend.”

“Along with the new team’s anti-Chinese initiatives, it could have a strong negative influence on Russian-American relations. After all, Russia has its own interests and its own approaches in both these areas,” Kosachev added.

National security adviser Michael Flynn said Wednesday that the Trump administration was putting Iran on notice for testing ballistic missiles. Iran conducted a ballistic missile test Sunday, which according to Flynn constituted a violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 2231. Flynn also targeted Iran for the attack on a Saudi Arabian ship by Iranian-backed Houthi rebels.

That notice Flynn mentioned appears to have materialized Friday in the form of sanctions imposed on 13 people and 12 companies from Iran. Trump also tweeted out Friday that Iran is “playing with fire.”


Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Iran is playing with fire - they don't appreciate how "kind" President Obama was to them. Not me!
5:28 AM - 3 Feb 2017
64,352 Retweets 174,101 likes

Not to be outdone, Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif shot back on Twitter, saying,
“Iran unmoved by threats as we derive security from our people. We’ll never initiate war, but we can only rely on our own means of defense.”

Like Kosachev mentioned, the Trump administration has also had some harsh words for China. Steve Bannon, who sits on the principals committee of the National Security Council, stated last year that the U.S. and China will go to war over artificial islands in the South China Sea, a major point of contention for the two countries.

[Silver]

Another way, of course, that Trump will be tried as a murderer is for his support of forces, the so-called Free Syrian Army, in Syria that are opposed to the Assad government. Yes, I know that the Gadianton puppets McCain and Obama and Hillary started all that mess, but that should only convince you of the greater need for Trump to immediately cease that support. (Recall with me the video of the Syrian rebel eating a dead Syrian army soldier's heart. The US calls reprobates like him moderates. They are devils and our country is in bed with them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEZUraRor1o )

I challenge any of you to tap dance your way out of this dilemma. The US is supporting savages in Syria to overthrow a regime that even if it is brutal, it certainly wasn't causing as much wanton death and destruction as the US/Saudi/Qatar-backed rebels have.

So what's it going to be, Trump supporters, continue to cheer for Trump as he send arms and soldiers into Syria and creates even more refugees, or demand that Trump pull back from Syria immediately? Choose wisely. Either way, Trump's a murderer for already helping out rebels in Syria.

http://www.businessinsider.com/soldiers ... ice-2013-9

SOLDIERS SPEAK OUT ON SYRIA: 'We Are Not A World Police'

Paul Szoldra

Sep. 2, 2013, 11:36 AM

With the president poised to strike in Syria and the Congress set to vote on the issue the week of Sept. 9, the debate about U.S. military intervention in the two-year-old civil war is already happening amongst the American public.

Some Americans have made their voices known to their representatives, with many saying the U.S. should stay out of the conflict, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll.

In the poll, only 20% said the U.S. should take action, although that was up from 9% last week. Even if it's clear the Assad regime used chemical weapons on civilians, only 29% said the U.S. should intervene.

That sentiment appears to be mirrored with veterans and members of the military, who have been tweeting to Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.), as well as personally emailing me their thoughts* after Business Insider published two letters from troops on Saturday.

While President Obama has repeatedly denied there would be "boots on the ground," and the strike would be limited — likely using cruise missiles from ships far away — many were fearful of the possibility of further involvement.

"I'm a U.S. Air Force vet who spent a solid 6 years shuttling between Afghanistan and Iraq, doing everything from combat airdrops to medevacs to hauling flag-draped coffins," wrote one servicemember in an email, who also mentioned travel to 38 countries in that time. "What we do not need is another war, and we certainly do not need any further involvement in a civil war where our objective isn't clear, and our allies aren't really our allies."

[Silver]

Obama needs Congressional approval, but Trump?

"What will we get for bombing Syria besides more debt and a possible long term conflict?" Trump asked in one tweet. "Obama needs Congressional approval."

In another tweet, he wrote: "The President must get Congressional approval before attacking Syria-big mistake if he does not!"

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/06/politics/ ... gn-policy/

I was just rereading some of the posts in this thread so far and as I read Trump's words quoted above by iWriteStuff I realized anew how messed up America is, and by extension, how messed up Trump's supporters are.

When candidate Trump says that we can't afford to attack Syria, he gets cheers and votes.
When LDSFF member Silver says the same thing, he gets attacked or told that the US must be the world's policeman.

When candidate Trump says that he would follow the Constitution by getting Congressional approval for military action, everybody nods in agreement, thankful for a change from the unconstituional abuses of the Bush/Obama years.
When Silver says President Trump broke his oath of office for acting unilaterally, he gets preached at.

Sure is ironic, ain't it? Or maybe not ironic, there's another word for it. Can't remember exactly what it was. I think it rhymes with hypocritical. No, no, it doesn't rhyme with hypocritical. It is hypocritical.

[Silver]

Look at our success ratio in Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt and Libya. Pathetically bad. Untold suffering and death. Since we obviously don't know what we're doing, we shouldn't do anything at all in the Middle East. Get out of there!

[Silver]

Using a source that many of you would consider reliable, here I am showing Trump supporters again the folly of your guy spending one additional dollar, or sending one additional soldier to the Middle East or Afghanistan. Why do Trump supporters continue to argue with me? Why do you want one more soldier to see horrific things and commit suicide? Why are you so desirous to prosecute war all over the globe? Why won't you vote for peace?

America couldn't beat the North Koreans.
Likewise, America couldn't beat the North Vietnamese. These were two tiny, weak countries.
America couldn't win the war on poverty.
America couldn't win the war on drugs.
America can't win the war on terrorism.
But man, we sure do love war.
Looks like we've definitely won the war on peace.

http://buchanan.org/blog/afghanistan-lost-cause-127140

Is Afghanistan a Lost Cause?
Thursday - June 1, 2017 at 11:30 pm
By Patrick J. Buchanan

“We are there and we are committed” was the regular retort of Secretary of State Dean Rusk during the war in Vietnam.

Whatever you may think of our decision to go in, Rusk was saying, if we walk away, the United States loses the first war in its history, with all that means for Southeast Asia and America’s position in the world.

We face a similar moment of decision.

Wednesday, a truck bomb exploded near the diplomatic quarter of Kabul, killing 90 and wounding 460. So terrible was the atrocity that the Taliban denied complicity. It is believed to have been the work of the Haqqani network.

This “horrific and shameful attack demonstrates these terrorists’ compete disregard for human life and their nihilistic opposition to the dream of a peaceful future for Afghanistan,” said Hugo Llordens, a U.S. diplomat in Kabul.

The message the truck bombers sent to the Afghan people? Not even in the heart of this capital can your government keep civilian workers and its own employees safe.

Message to America: After investing hundreds of billions and 2,000 U.S. lives in the 15 years since 9/11, we are further from victory than we have ever been.

President Obama, believing Afghanistan was the right war, and Iraq the wrong war, ramped up the U.S. presence in 2011 to 100,000 troops. His plan: Cripple the Taliban, train the Afghan army and security forces, stabilize the government, and withdraw American forces by the end of his second term.

Obama fell short, leaving President Trump with 8,500 U.S. troops in Afghanistan, and Kabul’s control more tenuous than ever. The Taliban hold more territory and are active in more provinces than they have been since being driven from power in 2001. And Afghan forces are suffering casualties at the highest rate of the war.

Stated starkly, the war in Afghanistan is slowly being lost.

Indeed, Trump has inherited what seems to be an unwinnable war, if he is not prepared to send a new U.S. army to block the Taliban from taking power. And it is hard to believe that the American people would approve of any large reintroduction of U.S. forces.

The U.S. commander there, Gen. John Nicholson, has requested at least 3,000 more U.S. troops to train the Afghan army and stabilize the country while seeking a negotiated end to the war.

Trump’s conundrum: 3,000 or 5,000 more U.S. troops can at best help the Afghan security forces sustain the present stalemate.

But if we could not defeat the Taliban with 100,000 U.S. troops in country in 2011, we are not going to defeat a stronger Taliban with a U.S. force one-seventh of that size. And if a guerrilla army does not lose, it wins.

Yet it is hard to see how Trump can refuse to send more troops. If he says we have invested enough blood and treasure, the handwriting will be on the wall. Reports that both Russia and Iran are already talking to the Taliban suggest that they see a Taliban takeover as inevitable.

Should Trump announce any timetable for withdrawal, it would send shock waves through the Afghan government, army and society.

Any awareness that their great superpower ally was departing, now or soon, or refusing to invest more after 15 years, would be a psychological blow from which President Ashraf Ghani’s government might not recover.

What would a Taliban victory mean?

The Afghan people, especially those who cast their lot with us, could undergo something like what befell the South Vietnamese and Cambodians in 1975. It would be a defeat for us almost as far-reaching as was the defeat for the Soviet Union, when the Red Army was forced to pull out after a decade of war in the 1980s.

For the USSR, that Afghan defeat proved a near-fatal blow.

And if we pulled up stakes and departed, the exodus from Afghanistan would be huge and we would face a moral crisis of how many refugees we would accept, and how many we would leave behind to their fate.

Fifteen years ago, some of us argued that an attempt to remake Afghanistan and Iraq in our image was utopian folly, almost certain, given the history and culture of the entire region, to fail.

Yet we plunged in.

In 2001, it was Afghanistan. In 2003, we invaded and occupied Iraq. Then we attacked Libya and ousted Gadhafi. Then we intervened in Syria. Then we backed the Saudi war to crush the Houthi rebels in Yemen.

Given the trillions sunk and lost, and the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, dead, how have we benefited ourselves, or these peoples?

As Rusk said, “We are there and we are committed.”

And the inevitable departure of the United States from the Middle East, which is coming, just as the British, French and Soviet empires had to depart, will likely do lasting damage to the American soul.

[eddie]

Well it looks like you agree with Silver and his constant rant about Trump being a murderer. If you are speaking in and of yourself fine, however, I see you pushing the thanks button in support of Silver. What other conclusion can be made?

Can we please discuss the issues without pressuring others for their political views?

Simply put.......NO! Amen! Just what is it you're spewing? :ymsick: Even politicians stand up and say listen to me, but keep your opinions and statements to yourself because my opinions are better than yours and I do not want to be contradicted. X(

A person in total darkness cannot see themselves. Dark and light cannot co-exist. But another person can shine a light on them and not like what they see. :-w Therein they have three choices...1) shout out everything that is seen and not liked every hour on the hour, :-B 2) turn away and not make a nuisance of themselves by drawing attention to that which they saw, 8-| or 3) bring to light any good qualities, assets or characteristics. B-)

Who's pressuring who? The rules are a complete contradiction of each other, but good for the poster. /:)

[Silver]

Here's another witness:

https://www.thenewamerican.com/world-ne ... summit-why

Friday, 02 June 2017
Top Trump Officials Attend Globalist Bilderberg Summit. Why?
Written by Alex Newman

Several top officials in the Trump administration are attending this year's secrecy-obsessed Bilderberg meeting, an annual globalist gathering of the world's self-appointed elites and a select group of their “useful idiots.” The reason for their attendance was not immediately clear, nor was it clear whether President Trump had approved their visit. But the implications could be massive, and analysts say Trump should be on guard.

President Donald Trump and his administration are literally at the top of the Bilderberg discussion agenda for 2017, an official press release from the summit organizers shows. There to help formulate the president's “Progress Report,” as the Bilderberg statement describes it, are at least a few of Trump's top officials — all of whom have longstanding links to the establishment swamp. But with the would-be global rulers of humanity sneaking around behind closed doors and heavily armed guards, this time in Chantilly, Virginia, for the four-day conference that began Thursday, little reliable information is likely to emerge publicly in the immediate future.

Among the senior Trump officials attending the June 1 - 4, 2017 Bilderberg summit are H.R. McMaster (shown), Trump's national security advisor, according to an official list of participants provided by Bilderberg organizers. Also attending are Trump's controversial Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross. Nadia Schadlow, identified as “Deputy Assistant to the President, National Security Council,” is also on the list.

A number of reputed advisors to Trump are also participating. Among them: homosexual activist and billionaire tech entrepreneur Peter Thiel, as well as Chris Liddell, identified on the official list of attendees as “Assistant to the President and Director of Strategic Initiatives.” Notorious globalist Henry “New World Order” Kissinger, a fanatical advocate of depopulation who recently met Trump at the White House, is listed, too. There may be other attendees whose names were kept off the list.

Of the Trump officials in attendance, most have well-documented links to the establishment swamp Trump promised to drain throughout his campaign. Lieutenant General McMaster, for example, is still listed as a member of the globalist Council on Foreign Relations — an organization that even former members have described as a subversive outfit working to destroy U.S. sovereignty in exchange for “global government.”

Indeed, prominent patriotic Americans such as the late U.S. Admiral Chester Ward, who served as the Judge Advocate of the U.S. Navy, was a CFR member for 16 years before resigning in disgust. “In the entire CFR lexicon, there is no term of revulsion carrying a meaning so deep as America First,” said Admiral Ward, whose comments on the CFR shed light on why the fringe but immensely powerful group would be entirely hostile to Trump's central promise as a pro-America, anti-establishment political candidate.

But it's even worse than that. “The main purpose of the Council on Foreign Relations is promoting the disarmament of U.S. sovereignty and national independence, and submergence into an all-powerful one-world government,” the admiral warned, adding that “this lust to surrender the sovereignty and independence of the United States is pervasive throughout most of the membership.” In other words, not everyone in the CFR is a fanatical globalist determined to sell out America's sovereignty, but most are.

Then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, whose husband attended Bilderberg as a virtual nobody before becoming president, once boasted that the CFR tells her what she should be doing and how she should be thinking.

The Bilderberg group has a similar agenda to the CFR — as even its own attendees have admitted — but it brings together like-minded globalists from Europe, as well. In 2001, former British chancellor of the exchequer and Bilderberg bigwig Denis Healey told the U.K. Guardian that it was a little “exaggerated, but not wholly unfair” to say that the outfit’s overall goal was to impose a global government on humanity.

“Those of us in Bilderberg felt we couldn't go on forever fighting one another for nothing and killing people and rendering millions homeless,” he claimed. “So we felt that a single community throughout the world would be a good thing.” By “community,” globalists really mean government — after all, the European Union was a “community” before the full-blown super-state was openly announced. Many other attendees have made similar boasts, including bragging about their role in imposing the EU and the euro on formerly sovereign European peoples.

Bilderberg attendee McMaster took over the role of national security adviser from non-CFR member Mike Flynn, whom globalist propaganda organs falsely suggested may have violated the Logan Act. Ironically, though, if the words of more than a few Bilderberg attendees are to be believed regarding the formulation of policy, American attendees at Bilderberg are in flagrant violation of the statute, which makes it a crime for U.S. citizens to work on policy with foreign officials behind closed doors without proper approval.

There are undoubtedly some CFR members and even Bilderberg attendees who would disagree with selling out U.S. independence to globalist institutions, as described by numerous former members and attendees. But McMaster's record suggests he may not be among that small group. A decade ago, he joined the globalist-minded International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) in London as a “Senior Research Associate.” There, his job was described as “conduct[ing] research to identify opportunities for improved multi-national cooperation and political-military integration in the areas of counterinsurgency, counter-terrorism, and state building.”

There are a number of terms and phrases there that are cause for alarm — including standard globalist rhetoric such as “multi-national cooperation” and “political-military integration,” which sounds a lot like sovereignty-stealing schemes such as NATO and the European Union. There was also the term “state building,” which critics pointed out resembles the “nation building” that Trump specifically vowed to stop under his administration following costly and deadly failures by Obama and Bush.

McMaster's deputy, Nadia Schadlow, is also listed as a Bilderberg attendee this year, in addition to being listed as a current member of the establishment swamp known as the Council on Foreign Relations. Her biggest claim to fame aside from her links to the globalist swamp appears to be a book she wrote, War and the Art of Governance, that essentially calls for more U.S. nation building following unconstitutional and unwise U.S. military interventions abroad. It was not immediately clear why or how she was selected to serve in such a key role in the Trump administration, although Secretary of Defense James Mattis, himself a past Bilderberg attendee, endorsed her book as a “must read.”

Other senior Trump officials at the secretive summit also have longstanding links to the pinnacles of the “wannabe” rulers of the world. Trump's U.S. Commerce Secretary, Wilbur Ross, for example, is listed as an attendee this year. But before his job running Trump's Commerce Department, Ross was a senior managing director at Rothschild, Inc. The Rothschild family — an unfathomably wealthy banking dynasty that boasts of its incredible global influence — often pops up in connection with Bilderberg, and many of its minions frequently attend, although sometimes their Rothschild connection is not highlighted on the guest list. Billionaire globalist agitator and financier George Soros was also a Rothschild protégè, as was new French President Emmanuel Macron. And despite their false image as supporters of capitalism, leading Rothschild family members have no problem endorsing known communists associated with mass-murdering regimes for top positions in global organizations such as the United Nations.

Finally, among the senior Trump officials at Bilderberg this week is Chris Liddle, whose formal title is Assistant to the President of the United States. Like McMaster and Schadlow, Liddle's name appears on the current list of CFR members. He also has links to key globalist corporations such as Microsoft, where he served as CFO. Former Microsoft chief Bill Gates has been a regular attendee at Bilderberg and a leading financier of everything from global population control and abortion to the dumbed-down Common Core “education” standards illegally imposed on America by the Obama administration.

It was not clear whether Gates would attend this year, but his name has been left off in the past when he did in fact attend. While Bilderberg has been publishing its purported list of attendees for years now, there have been multiple instances of high-level globalists and establishment types attending without being listed as attendees. So it is possible that other Trump officials are attending without being formally listed. Others attending Bilderberg this year include Big Business CEOs, mega-bankers, editors of increasingly irrelevant establishment propaganda organs, European royalty, political leaders, “think tank” bosses, leaders of globalist organizations such as the IMF and NATO, and other establishment swamp creatures devoted to globalism and enriching themselves at public expense. Leading Chinese Communists have also attended.

The attendance of Trump officials is being portrayed in some organs of the establishment media as something supported and approved by Trump. “The White House is taking no chances, sending along some big hitters from Team Trump to defend their boss,” reported journalist Charlie Skelton in the normally ultra-far-left U.K. Guardian. Of course, Bilderberg organizers claim attendees attend the meeting in a private capacity. Actual attendees, though, have disputed that. Outside a recent Bilderberg summit in Copenhagen, Diederik Samsom, the Socialist International-aligned Dutch Labor Party boss, told this reporter and others that he was indeed there in a formal capacity, “because being a politician, you’re 24/7, so there’s no way of exiting my role.”

Prominent Christian and conservative analysts opposed to the establishment and its globalist agenda suggested that stopping Trump was at the top of the Bilderberg summit's discussions. "The elite consider Trump to be the biggest threat to globalization that they have confronted in a very long time, and most of them would love to see Trump removed from office somehow," argued Michael Snyder, a popular liberty-minded Christian blogger, at The American Dream website. “Out of everything that Trump has done so far, pulling out of the Paris climate agreement is going to be the thing that the elite hate the most. So as much as they wanted him gone before, now their hatred for him is going to go to a whole new level. And we are already seeing this in just the first few hours after Trump’s announcement.”

In an article posted on the Drudge Report, Infowars editor Paul Joseph Watson, citing sources close to the conference, reported that the Bilderberg summit would focus on bringing down Trump's agenda. “The reason that three members of the Trump administration — HR McMaster, Wilbur Ross and Chris Liddell — have been invited to attend this year’s meeting in Chantilly, Virginia is that Bilderberg thinks there is still a chance to put pressure on Trump to force him to back down on his America-first agenda,” Watson reported. “Given the highly unlikely scenario of Trump taking orders from Bilderberg, the only recourse left for the elite will be to turf him out of office.”

Already, the traditional secrecy of the gathering — likely having to do with the paranoia of organizers and attendees worried that their shady deeds could be exposed to an increasingly outraged public — is slowly crumbling. This year, the Drudge Report, the world's most influential news aggregation service, has already linked to at least three articles on the cabal's confab. And the gathering has been reported on by much of the world's media, including establishment mouthpieces, in a departure from decades past, when even mentioning the summit was enough to get somebody branded a “conspiracy theorist” by the increasingly discredited "fake news" media.

Why senior Trump officials are in attendance remains unclear. One fact that is perfectly clear, though, is that the Bilderberg's well-documented globalist agenda is completely at odds with Trump's publicly articulated America First campaign platform to Make America Great Again. The question that remains, then, is whether Trump officials at Bilderberg are more loyal to the globalist schemers behind the summit, or their boss and their oath of office to the U.S. Constitution. Trump should make sure he knows the answer definitively before relying on their advice.