Why I stopped being a feminist

[Gage]

No correlation because laws back then did not allow women rights and allowed blacks to be slaves. There is no law, nothing holding a woman back from doing anything today. And no there is no Inequality in the workplace, women are paid the same for the same work, look it up.

[h_p]

It would be nice to define what the real complaint is against women, because that is what this thread feels like - one big women bashing party, and just throwing out labels.

I sincerely hope my OP did not come across that way. It was certainly not my intent.

[Sarah]

No correlation because laws back then did not allow women rights and allowed blacks to be slaves. There is no law, nothing holding a woman back from doing anything today. And no there is no Inequality in the workplace, women are paid the same for the same work, look it up.

Yes, I see all that, but it is the same for blacks also. They have every right to do whatever they want now, yet many still feel resentment towards whites for the poor treatment of their ancestors, and for some, every time they feel slighted or treated unkindly by a white person, they assume they are being discriminated against, and it reminds them of being used, taken advantage of, and discriminated against for so long in the past. Same thing that women are feeling. I'm not saying it is justified. I've been on the receiving end of white hatred and compare it to what was going on with the Laminates. And women also need to not assume males want to dominate them. But if men would at least acknowledge the injustices of the past (and the realities of the differences now) rather than complaining about women's "victim-hood," they would go a lot further with reconciling and building a better relationships with the women in their lives.

What correlation I don't accept is when the gay population compares their plight to blacks and women. With them it is a behavior issue and not race or gender discrimination.

[Sarah]

It would be nice to define what the real complaint is against women, because that is what this thread feels like - one big women bashing party, and just throwing out labels.

I sincerely hope my OP did not come across that way. It was certainly not my intent.

Not at all. I did not have the OP in mind when saying that. It just gave others an opportunity to vent!

[Gage]

It would be nice to define what the real complaint is against women, because that is what this thread feels like - one big women bashing party, and just throwing out labels.

I sincerely hope my OP did not come across that way. It was certainly not my intent.

The world, the people, and I assume Satan himself is trying to turn "nature" on its head- the natural man and the natural woman, the natural flow of things, the natural order. two ways this is achieved- the homosexual agenda and the Feminist movement.

[David13]

...


... Women in that day were "owned" in much the same way a slave was, ...

...

This is some personally slanted point of view.
This is a particular slant that you put on all your posts in this thread. What is there in your personal life that has given you this slanted view?
It seems to me like you are 'projecting' here.
dc

[Gage]

No correlation because laws back then did not allow women rights and allowed blacks to be slaves. There is no law, nothing holding a woman back from doing anything today. And no there is no Inequality in the workplace, women are paid the same for the same work, look it up.

Yes, I see all that, but it is the same for blacks also. They have every right to do whatever they want now, yet many still feel resentment towards whites for the poor treatment of their ancestors, and for some, every time they feel slighted or treated unkindly by a white person, they assume they are being discriminated against, and it reminds them of being used, taken advantage of, and discriminated against for so long in the past. Same thing that women are feeling. I'm not saying it is justified. I've been on the receiving end of white hatred and compare it to what was going on with the Laminates. And women also need to not assume males want to dominate them. But if men would at least acknowledge the injustices of the past (and the realities of the differences now) rather than complaining about women's "victim-hood," they would go a lot further with reconciling and building a better relationships with the women in their lives.

What correlation I don't accept is when the gay population compares their plight to blacks and women. With them it is a behavior issue and not race or gender discrimination.

"it reminds them of being used, taken advantage of, and discriminated against for so long in the past."


LOL, Sarah I literally have no words to this idiotic statement. All I can do is shake my head.

[Sarah]

No correlation because laws back then did not allow women rights and allowed blacks to be slaves. There is no law, nothing holding a woman back from doing anything today. And no there is no Inequality in the workplace, women are paid the same for the same work, look it up.

Yes, I see all that, but it is the same for blacks also. They have every right to do whatever they want now, yet many still feel resentment towards whites for the poor treatment of their ancestors, and for some, every time they feel slighted or treated unkindly by a white person, they assume they are being discriminated against, and it reminds them of being used, taken advantage of, and discriminated against for so long in the past. Same thing that women are feeling. I'm not saying it is justified. I've been on the receiving end of white hatred and compare it to what was going on with the Laminates. And women also need to not assume males want to dominate them. But if men would at least acknowledge the injustices of the past (and the realities of the differences now) rather than complaining about women's "victim-hood," they would go a lot further with reconciling and building a better relationships with the women in their lives.

What correlation I don't accept is when the gay population compares their plight to blacks and women. With them it is a behavior issue and not race or gender discrimination.

"it reminds them of being used, taken advantage of, and discriminated against for so long in the past."


LOL, Sarah I literally have no words to this idiotic statement. All I can do is shake my head.

I don't understand. You don't acknowledge that blacks were used, taken advantage of and discriminated in the past? You don't acknowledge that many women were also treated this way and were not allowed to work outside of the home?

[Sarah]

...


... Women in that day were "owned" in much the same way a slave was, ...

...

This is some personally slanted point of view.
This is a particular slant that you put on all your posts in this thread. What is there in your personal life that has given you this slanted view?
It seems to me like you are 'projecting' here.
dc

You're really trying to pin me down on this and I will tell you that I've seen and experienced all kinds of marriages and lets just say that some men have more respect for women than others.

Taken from a college textbook:

Most Americans treated married women according to the concept of coverture, a concept inherited from English common law. Under the doctrine of coverture, a woman was legally considered the chattel of her husband, his possession. Any property she might hold before her marriage became her husband's on her wedding day, and she had no legal right to appear in court, to sign contracts or to do business. Although these formal provisions of the law were sometimes ignored—the wives of tradesmen, for example, might assist in runing the family business—married women technically had almost no legal identity.

[Rose Garden]

1) Active priesthood holder, struggled to get through college with a teaching degree and works at a middle school, or

2) Non-member wealthy CEO who makes his money in the entertainment industry?

99% of today's Mormon females choose number 2. I didnt say 99% end up with rich Alpha males but that is what they would choose if it was an option. Some dont have the choice because they may be fat or not very attractive, and about 1% actually believe the gospel and try to live it.

Please stop comparing the struggles and hatred blacks have for whites to feminism and marriage and women. Their is zero correlation.

What to you mean there is no correlation? Women in that day were "owned" in much the same way a slave was, and had very few rights.

Just like there were good and bad slave owners there were good and bad husbands and fathers, all which create resentment. I'm just trying to get some of you to acknowledge that fact. What I sense from men is that their resentment stems from the fact that they are stuck with a wife that doesn't treat them well, and I agree that wives could do a better job of lowering their expectations and being kinder.

Did you read that blog post Fiannan posted? Obviously the feeling young wives and mothers continue to face today, which is just a part of the sacrifice required to be a mother, is feeling like a slave to their children and oftentimes their husband too. It would be nice to define what the real complaint is against women, because that is what this thread feels like - one big women bashing party, and just throwing out labels. I don't believe that women are more prone to victim-hood attitudes by nature. That is a pride thing - getting defensive for example. I know lots of men that have that problem.

I acknowledge that there were good and bad husbands and fathers back when women were legally owned by men and even now. But my acknowledgement isn't going to soothe your soul. There will still be people in this world who don't acknowledge it and you will continue to feel frustration toward those people until you resolve the resentment issues within yourself.

The roles of women and men are different. No woman is going to be rewarded with a good, loving husband until she manages to be good and loving herself. A married woman will not see any change in her husband if she is unwilling to change her attitude as well, even if he does change. The only thing any woman who feels put upon can do is repent of the resentment within her own heart.

Women who feel resentment toward men will look around and see no escape from the hurtful situations they find themselves in with the men in their lives. That is the nature of resentment. It is personally condemning, confining, hopeless, helpless, and leaves those who embrace it in an utterly dark and gloomy place. It takes a lot of effort to throw off resentment but it must be done before a person will see any outward changes in their lives. No woman who is in an abusive situation will escape it permanently by resenting the men in her life. She will eventually find herself back in a worse situation than she was in before until she finally learns her lessons and repents of her own sins.

[Sarah]

It would be nice to define what the real complaint is against women, because that is what this thread feels like - one big women bashing party, and just throwing out labels.

I sincerely hope my OP did not come across that way. It was certainly not my intent.

The world, the people, and I assume Satan himself is trying to turn "nature" on its head- the natural man and the natural woman, the natural flow of things, the natural order. two ways this is achieved- the homosexual agenda and the Feminist movement.

And part of the natural order of things has been the curses placed on Eve and on Cain. The curses are slowly being lifted, prophecy is being fulfilled as the "slaves" are rising up against their masters, and Satan is taking advantage of this for sure in stirring up a lot of discord between the traditional haves and have-nots. Freedom has not been a standard for the world, and with freedom comes the choice to not sacrifice to have a family. Women have been essentially forced into that role because of their weakness, (but it's better not to be compelled to make right choices, right?) and both men and women are choosing selfishness over raising more children, sending wives more and more into the workplace.

The text from above continues...

The rapid market transformation of the Jacksonian era, however, demanded greater flexibility for women. Because men sometimes could be away from home for months or years at a time, a married woman's ability to maintain a household pivoted upon her freedom to execute contracts. Real estate speculation played a huge role in the pre Civil War economy, particularly in the old southwest. Real estate speculators demanded greater flexibility in assigning ownership. Beginning in 1840s, states began to overturn the traditions of coverture. Over the next two decades, women would begin to develop a legal status within marriage, gaining the right to make contracts, to retain personal property, to be parties to law suits and contracts, and to execute wills on their own behalf. Most property rights for women emerged in piecemeal fashion, and because judges frequently interpreted the statutes narrowly, women often had to agitate repeatedly for more expansive and detailed legislation. Here are two examples

Women's Rights Petition to New York State Legislature, 1854
The Legislature's Response, 1854

Measures like this deeply upset tradition: they suggested that women were equal to men and did not naturally desire subordination. This cartoon, published in Harper's Weekly, June 11, 1859, mocks the sight of women insisting on their rights. If women are equal, it suggests, men are diminished and marginalized.

[Sarah]

1) Active priesthood holder, struggled to get through college with a teaching degree and works at a middle school, or

2) Non-member wealthy CEO who makes his money in the entertainment industry?

99% of today's Mormon females choose number 2. I didnt say 99% end up with rich Alpha males but that is what they would choose if it was an option. Some dont have the choice because they may be fat or not very attractive, and about 1% actually believe the gospel and try to live it.

Please stop comparing the struggles and hatred blacks have for whites to feminism and marriage and women. Their is zero correlation.

What to you mean there is no correlation? Women in that day were "owned" in much the same way a slave was, and had very few rights.

Just like there were good and bad slave owners there were good and bad husbands and fathers, all which create resentment. I'm just trying to get some of you to acknowledge that fact. What I sense from men is that their resentment stems from the fact that they are stuck with a wife that doesn't treat them well, and I agree that wives could do a better job of lowering their expectations and being kinder.

Did you read that blog post Fiannan posted? Obviously the feeling young wives and mothers continue to face today, which is just a part of the sacrifice required to be a mother, is feeling like a slave to their children and oftentimes their husband too. It would be nice to define what the real complaint is against women, because that is what this thread feels like - one big women bashing party, and just throwing out labels. I don't believe that women are more prone to victim-hood attitudes by nature. That is a pride thing - getting defensive for example. I know lots of men that have that problem.

I acknowledge that there were good and bad husbands and fathers back when women were legally owned by men and even now. But my acknowledgement isn't going to soothe your soul. There will still be people in this world who don't acknowledge it and you will continue to feel frustration toward those people until you resolve the resentment issues within yourself.

The roles of women and men are different. No woman is going to be rewarded with a good, loving husband until she manages to be good and loving herself. A married woman will not see any change in her husband if she is unwilling to change her attitude as well, even if he does change. The only thing any woman who feels put upon can do is repent of the resentment within her own heart.

Women who feel resentment toward men will look around and see no escape from the hurtful situations they find themselves in with the men in their lives. That is the nature of resentment. It is personally condemning, confining, hopeless, helpless, and leaves those who embrace it in an utterly dark and gloomy place. It takes a lot of effort to throw off resentment but it must be done before a person will see any outward changes in their lives. No woman who is in an abusive situation will escape it permanently by resenting the men in her life. She will eventually find herself back in a worse situation than she was in before until she finally learns her lessons and repents of her own sins.

I totally agree. I personally have no resentment towards men. But how do you help men who are resentful of women. That's what I'm seeing on this thread. What do you say to them except to point out that the things they don't like about women are the same things women historically have not liked about them.

[Sarah]

It would be nice to hear someone actually tell angry men and husbands to forgive their wives' behavior, but again and again on this forum we have this immediate frenzy of blame on the woman and her faults.

[Gage]

It would be nice to hear someone actually tell angry men and husbands to forgive their wives' behavior, but again and again on this forum we have this immediate frenzy of blame on the woman and her faults.

What? All I hear from you is blame the white man! Blame the white man for today's black mans problems. Blame the white man for today's woman's problems.

[Silver]

It would be nice to hear someone actually tell angry men and husbands to forgive their wives' behavior, but again and again on this forum we have this immediate frenzy of blame on the woman and her faults.

What? All I hear from you is blame the white man! Blame the white man for today's black mans problems. Blame the white man for today's woman's problems.

What was the name of Adam and Eve's daughter who killed Abel?

[Gage]

No correlation because laws back then did not allow women rights and allowed blacks to be slaves. There is no law, nothing holding a woman back from doing anything today. And no there is no Inequality in the workplace, women are paid the same for the same work, look it up.

Yes, I see all that, but it is the same for blacks also. They have every right to do whatever they want now, yet many still feel resentment towards whites for the poor treatment of their ancestors, and for some, every time they feel slighted or treated unkindly by a white person, they assume they are being discriminated against, and it reminds them of being used, taken advantage of, and discriminated against for so long in the past. Same thing that women are feeling. I'm not saying it is justified. I've been on the receiving end of white hatred and compare it to what was going on with the Laminates. And women also need to not assume males want to dominate them. But if men would at least acknowledge the injustices of the past (and the realities of the differences now) rather than complaining about women's "victim-hood," they would go a lot further with reconciling and building a better relationships with the women in their lives.

What correlation I don't accept is when the gay population compares their plight to blacks and women. With them it is a behavior issue and not race or gender discrimination.

"it reminds them of being used, taken advantage of, and discriminated against for so long in the past."


LOL, Sarah I literally have no words to this idiotic statement. All I can do is shake my head.

I don't understand. You don't acknowledge that blacks were used, taken advantage of and discriminated in the past? You don't acknowledge that many women were also treated this way and were not allowed to work outside of the home?

In the past! Have you looked around? There are no more Negro auctions. What does the treatment of someone 200 years ago have to do with today? As much as you want to blame 200 years ago, its just plain ignorant to do so.

[David13]

I totally agree. I personally have no resentment towards men. But how do you help men who are resentful of women. That's what I'm seeing on this thread. What do you say to them except to point out that the things they don't like about women are the same things women historically have not liked about them.

And I don't have any resentment toward women. I don't know if that was directed at me or not, but if it was, it's way way off the mark.

But I'm going to say that Meili's post above shows a very neutral point of view from her perspective. But that's not what I've seen in your posts.

Even the textbook you quote shows a decided slant.

"Feminism" didn't invent normal human relations between men and women. They existed for many generations. "Feminism" didn't invent equal treatment of women. And even your textbook quote does recognize that there were exceptions. How many exceptions? Is it possible there were more exceptions to the rule than adherence to the rule?

I wrote textbooks 30 years ago, and I know who wrote textbooks then and now, and some of the writers are quite slanted by their own personal experiences. Young people should not look at those textbooks as gospel, but should, from an objective point of view make their own understanding of human relations.

My point, and I think the point of this whole thread was that a whole lot of women get caught up in a trendy feminism that takes things way way too far. Where they become the abusers and scoffers that their "movement" is supposed to object to. And they think they are "modern" or "liberated" in so doing.

Worse still is there are vast legions from what I hear in this very church, of those following these trends.

But there's something else that's very important to recognize in Meili's post that these "feminists" don't recognize. That there are different roles for men and women.

Were your grandfathers abusive and slave owner like toward your grandmothers?

dc

[David13]

It would be nice to hear someone actually tell angry men and husbands to forgive their wives' behavior, but again and again on this forum we have this immediate frenzy of blame on the woman and her faults.

I disagree. I think it's best to help yourself before you set out to help others. Then you are in a good position to do so.
dc

[Sarah]

It would be nice to hear someone actually tell angry men and husbands to forgive their wives' behavior, but again and again on this forum we have this immediate frenzy of blame on the woman and her faults.

What? All I hear from you is blame the white man! Blame the white man for today's black mans problems. Blame the white man for today's woman's problems.

Well you are misunderstanding my intent with all these posts about the past. What I see is male frustration with women, and attributing all their frustration to some kind of undefined feminism. I gave my opinion of how feminism got started in the first place - that it stemmed from past treatment of women - and that is why I've been tying it back to the past with slavery and the rise of women's rights. I don't blame women's or African American's problems today on the white man. I'm only pointing out the hypocrisy of complaining about women's assertion of power when that was man's role over women traditionally.

[Sarah]

It would be nice to hear someone actually tell angry men and husbands to forgive their wives' behavior, but again and again on this forum we have this immediate frenzy of blame on the woman and her faults.

I disagree. I think it's best to help yourself before you set out to help others. Then you are in a good position to do so.
dc

True. Maybe I feel a little tempted to give advice because my husband and I have been through a lot and have come through with a great marriage.

[Sarah]

I totally agree. I personally have no resentment towards men. But how do you help men who are resentful of women. That's what I'm seeing on this thread. What do you say to them except to point out that the things they don't like about women are the same things women historically have not liked about them.

And I don't have any resentment toward women. I don't know if that was directed at me or not, but if it was, it's way way off the mark.

But I'm going to say that Meili's post above shows a very neutral point of view from her perspective. But that's not what I've seen in your posts.

Even the textbook you quote shows a decided slant.

"Feminism" didn't invent normal human relations between men and women. They existed for many generations. "Feminism" didn't invent equal treatment of women. And even your textbook quote does recognize that there were exceptions. How many exceptions? Is it possible there were more exceptions to the rule than adherence to the rule?

I wrote textbooks 30 years ago, and I know who wrote textbooks then and now, and some of the writers are quite slanted by their own personal experiences. Young people should not look at those textbooks as gospel, but should, from an objective point of view make their own understanding of human relations.

My point, and I think the point of this whole thread was that a whole lot of women get caught up in a trendy feminism that takes things way way too far. Where they become the abusers and scoffers that their "movement" is supposed to object to. And they think they are "modern" or "liberated" in so doing.

Worse still is there are vast legions from what I hear in this very church, of those following these trends.

But there's something else that's very important to recognize in Meili's post that these "feminists" don't recognize. That there are different roles for men and women.

Were your grandfathers abusive and slave owner like toward your grandmothers?

dc

I wasn't referring to you but the general sense I got from some of the posts. I just felt there was a lot of generalizing and labeling going on that was unwarranted.

And yes, I don't agree with those women in the Church for example who are pushing for the priesthood or things like that. I respect our differences and see the big picture, and agree with Meili's post.

I did have some sorry examples of husbands in both my and my husband's ancestry, but I also have some wonderful examples too. In one example I'm thinking of you see a husband feeling entitled to being waited upon by the wife and not helping when he was at home - she doing all the cooking cleaning and childcare to the extreme while he was doing his own thing. I saw the wife of this man live a life of resentment, and became a very weak-minded, low confidence women. So, when I see men complaining about the demands or expectations their wives have, I like to point out that it is a good idea to examine what expectations they are projecting upon the wife, because that might be one of the causes of her expectations for the man. Selfishness breeds selfishness.

[Sarah]

I totally agree. I personally have no resentment towards men. But how do you help men who are resentful of women. That's what I'm seeing on this thread. What do you say to them except to point out that the things they don't like about women are the same things women historically have not liked about them.

And I don't have any resentment toward women. I don't know if that was directed at me or not, but if it was, it's way way off the mark.

But I'm going to say that Meili's post above shows a very neutral point of view from her perspective. But that's not what I've seen in your posts.

Even the textbook you quote shows a decided slant.

"Feminism" didn't invent normal human relations between men and women. They existed for many generations. "Feminism" didn't invent equal treatment of women. And even your textbook quote does recognize that there were exceptions. How many exceptions? Is it possible there were more exceptions to the rule than adherence to the rule?

I wrote textbooks 30 years ago, and I know who wrote textbooks then and now, and some of the writers are quite slanted by their own personal experiences. Young people should not look at those textbooks as gospel, but should, from an objective point of view make their own understanding of human relations.

My point, and I think the point of this whole thread was that a whole lot of women get caught up in a trendy feminism that takes things way way too far. Where they become the abusers and scoffers that their "movement" is supposed to object to. And they think they are "modern" or "liberated" in so doing.

Worse still is there are vast legions from what I hear in this very church, of those following these trends.

But there's something else that's very important to recognize in Meili's post that these "feminists" don't recognize. That there are different roles for men and women.

Were your grandfathers abusive and slave owner like toward your grandmothers?

dc

I wasn't referring to you but the general sense I got from some of the posts. I just felt there was a lot of generalizing and labeling going on that was unwarranted.

And yes, I don't agree with those women in the Church for example who are pushing for the priesthood or things like that. I respect our differences and see the big picture, and agree with Meili's post.

I did have some sorry examples of husbands in both my and my husband's ancestry, but I also have some wonderful examples too. In one example I'm thinking of you see a husband feeling entitled to being waited upon by the wife and not helping when he was at home - she doing all the cooking cleaning and childcare to the extreme while he was doing his own thing. I saw the wife of this man live a life of resentment, and became a very weak-minded, low confidence women. So, when I see men complaining about the demands or expectations their wives have, I like to point out that it is a good idea to examine what expectations they are projecting upon the wife, because that might be one of the causes of her expectations for the man. Selfishness breeds selfishness.

What advice would I give this woman in my heritage who I just referred to, who was met with resistance with her requests for help, and then developed resentment? I would give the same advice to her that Meili offered, and that is to forgive your husband and not expect any help from him. This child-bearing role and that of nurturing their bodies and souls is yours if you choose, and every time your husband feels your expectation or your disappointment in his lack of help, he will want to distance himself from you more. All you can do is request and respect your husband's agency to choose what he will do.

And so for the husbands who request things of their wives and are met with resistance, my advice is the same, forgive your wife and forgo the resentment and disappointment or you will be met with more resistance.

If you are a wife and feel your husband is making demands of you, you can respectfully decline to meet those demands, and if you are a husband with a demanding wife, you too can respectfully withhold and lovingly explain why too. It is okay not to give when specific gifts have not been agreed upon or are being given or received for the wrong reasons.

To feminists and abolitionists of all ages, I would give similar advice. If you want someone to give you something, including freedom, you can't be demanding or you will make the one with the gift to give want to give it to you even less. The more women act entitled to freedom or particular gifts, the less men will want to give it to them and visa versa. We all simply need to appreciate the things we have and make requests without a feeling of entitlement, for we all really deserve nothing.

[Serragon]

Anytime we generalize a population, whether it's men or women, blacks or whites, Mormons or Christians, etc., we are using the dehumanizing methods she discovered in herself as she made this documentary. You cannot ever find peace and love using those tools. The only way we will find love and peace in our lives is through looking at every single person as an individual who is deserving and in need of love, respect, concern, and so forth.

It is absolutely true that anytime we abstract away from the individual we are using a dehumanizing method. This type of abstraction is how terrible things can be done to people without biting the conscience of the perpetrator. it is very dangerous and very powerful.

By the same token, it is still necessary to abstract away from the individual to be able to understand and evaluate the merits of various cultures. You can't understand culture by looking at the individual. it is only in the aggregate that this happens.

People are not divorced from their culture and it is not wrong to make initial judgments about people based upon these abstracted attributes. For example, I may feel comfortable hitchhiking in a certain country as that may be a standard way of travel in that culture. This does not mean that all people in that country are safe or will pick me up, but my initial judgement is sound. ultimately, I need to judge each person attempting to give me a ride individually, however.

My point here is to agree with the idea that we should ultimately judge people individually on their own merits while not throwing out the powerful, though dehumanizing, abstractions that can tell us much about the shared values and culture among a population of people.

[Yahtzee]

If I may, I'd like to defend Sarah. What I understood from her posts is simply historical context. She's not defending feminism, she's reminding us why it exists in the first place. Much like the video showed, you have to listen to your "enemy" to understand where they are coming from. You have to listen without expecting too be offended.
It's not inaccurate that historically a woman had no right to own property. I hope no one can defend that. Women were left destitute because of those kinds of laws. And yes, that does affect women today, like it or not. The past always affects the future.
So I also agree it's important to understand why feminism came about and the good and bad consequences of it. That doesn't mean any of us who do so agree with the principles of modern feminism (ie-selfishness and man hating), but doing so allows me to have more compassion for those who adhere to it and the ability to attempt rational discussion with them.

[David13]

If I may, I'd like to defend Sarah. What I understood from her posts is simply historical context. She's not defending feminism, she's reminding us why it exists in the first place. Much like the video showed, you have to listen to your "enemy" to understand where they are coming from. You have to listen without expecting too be offended.
It's not inaccurate that historically a woman had no right to own property. I hope no one can defend that. Women were left destitute because of those kinds of laws. And yes, that does affect women today, like it or not. The past always affects the future.
So I also agree it's important to understand why feminism came about and the good and bad consequences of it. That doesn't mean any of us who do so agree with the principles of modern feminism (ie-selfishness and man hating), but doing so allows me to have more compassion for those who adhere to it and the ability to attempt rational discussion with them.

The distinction that I think needs to be made, is that the "feminists" of today, in most part, have gone beyond what would be a healthy action against the past, and have devolved into their own hate society.
An inappropriate reaction.
dc