Peace Breaking Out All Over

[Silver]

Pray for peace.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-2 ... orth-korea

US Deploys Third Aircraft Carrier Toward North Korea

May 27, 2017 10:10 PM

One month ago, when we first discussed that in addition to the CVN-70 Carl Vinson aircraft carrier group, the US was deploying two more carriers toward the Korean peninsula, some took the Yonhap-sourced report skeptically: after all, what's the incremental symbolic impact of having three, or even two aircraft carriers next to North Korea when just one would more than suffice. Then, two weeks ago, the report was proven half right when US officials announced that in addition to the first US carrier already on location, the US Navy is moving the USS Ronald Reagan aircraft carrier to the Korean Peninsula, where it would conduct dual-carrier training exercises with the USS Carl Vinson.

After completing its maintenance period in Yokosuka, Japan, the USS Ronald Reagan departed for the Korean Peninsula on Tuesday, according to the Navy. "Coming out of a long in-port maintenance period we have to ensure that Ronald Reagan and the remainder of the strike group are integrated properly as we move forward," Rear Adm. Charles Williams said in a press release. Once it arrives in the region, the carrier will conduct a variety of training exercises but primarily focus on certifying its ability to safely launch and recover aircraft, the service said. In other words, training for combat missions involved the North Korean capital.

We concluded our report from mid-May by saying that the US Navy may soon "further deploy the CVN-68 Nimitz, which was the third carrier reported to be eventually making its way toward Korea."

We didn't have long to wait, because on Friday the Kitsap Sun confirmed what we reported initially over a month ago, namely that the USS Nimitz will depart Naval Base Kitsap-Bremerton on Thursday on its first deployment since 2013. Official details of the deployment were hazy, with spokeswoman Theresa Donnelly saying that The Nimitz-class aircraft carrier is expected to be in the western Pacific for six months with visits to the Middle East and Asia-Pacific, "though plans could change in response to world events."

However, a subsequent report from VOAnews confirms that the ultimate destination is none other than the country the US will almost certainly attack next, North Korea:

The United States is sending a third aircraft carrier strike force to the western Pacific region in an apparent warning to North Korea to deter its ballistic missile and nuclear programs, two sources have told VOA. The USS Nimitz, one of the world’s largest warships, will join two other supercarriers, the USS Carl Vinson and the USS Ronald Reagan, in the western Pacific.
The Nimitz will lead Carrier Strike Group 11, which includes guided-missile destroyers USS Shoup and USS Kidd from Naval Station Everett, guided-missile destroyers USS Howard and USS Pinckney and guided-missile cruiser USS Princeton from San Diego, and a conglomeration of aircraft squadrons that comprise Carrier Air Wing 11, including Naval Air Station Whidbey Island-based Gray Wolves of Electronic Attack Squadron 142.

After returning from its last deployment, the Nimitz underwent a 20-month maintenance and modernization period at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard that was completed in October. It has spent most of the past seven months at sea undergoing training and inspections in preparation for deployment. Now the ship and crew are ready to go, said commanding officer Capt. Kevin Lenox.

"I am so incredibly proud of the entire Nimitz team and the terrific coordination and support across the entire strike group, especially in such a condensed training cycle," he said in a news release. "The crew stepped up to the plate, and I'm confident we're ready to meet whatever challenges lie ahead on our upcoming deployment."

While it is rare for the U.S. military to deploy two carriers in the same region at the same time, it is almost unheard of to have three aircraft carriers in close proximity to each other absent current or imminent military action. Which may be the case soon: as VOA notes, North Korea’s growing nuclear and missile threat is seen as a major security challenge for Trump, who has vowed to prevent the country from being able to strike the U.S. with a nuclear missile.

Sitting alongside Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, Trump said on Friday prior to the start of the G-7 meeting in Sicily that world leaders would have a “particular focus on the North Korea problem.” The White House issued a statement on Friday which said the two leaders have agreed to “enhance sanctions on North Korea” in an attempt to prevent the further development of North Korea’s ballistic missile and nuclear programs.

Meanwhile, as reported on Friday, the U.S. military will test a system to shoot down an ICBM for the first time next week. It is intended to simulate a North Korean ICBM aimed at the U.S. The Missile Defense Agency said it will test an existing missile defense system on Tuesday to try to intercept an ICBM. The Pentagon has used the Ground-Based Midcourse Defense (GMD) system to intercept other types of missiles, but never an ICBM. The GMD has been inconsistent, succeeding in nine of 17 attempts against missiles without intercontinental range capability since 1999.

[Spaced_Out]

Yeah read that article - Trump does things in style - and want to sent the global community a message. He has also given free range to the general to make their own decisions. Which is a recipe for disaster, but is also good as many military campaigns have failed when political leaders make military decisions.

There is only one way to fight a war go in very hard with everything and get it over as soon as possible - the overall loss of life and suffering is much less. N.Korea will be a dust bowl very soon, time will tell if Russia and China get involved as they both have borders with N.Korea. If S.Korea gets united with N. Korea that means the US + allies will have a border with both Russia and China - it will be a big mess, hence the US needs to bring lots of fire power.

[Silver]

Here's what I don't get then. If China and Russia are potential enemies:
1. Why is Hillary not in jail for selling the Russians uranium?
2. Why is WalMart filled with Chinese goods and why do they buy our Treasuries (and we pay them interest)?

Perhaps the plan to wipe out a few billion people for the UN's 2030 Sustainable Development agenda isn't fake news.

[Durzan]

Do sanctions really do anything at all?

[Silver]

Do sanctions really do anything at all?

They cause creative juices to flow. They inspire people to look for a way to work around the sanctions. They also cause suffering by innocent people. Lots of unintended consequences. Of course, once the sanctions are in place and the the force that applied the sanction sees the damage being done and they still leave them in place, then the consequences can no longer be claimed to be unintended.

[eddie]

North Korea has made daily threats to the U.S., we finally have a President who will set a precedence.

[Sunain]

I like this response by Trump. It sends a message to the rest of the world to not mess with the United States. Obama was a wimp and he let the world trample over the USA during his terms. The United States would also be in a good position to help protect Japan and South Korea if North Korea finally followed through with their threats.

I don't think North Korea​ will fall peacefully. A unified Korea is definitely not what China wants. The unification of Germany after the fall of the Berlin Wall has so far proved to be better for east Germany​. I think might see a similar issue with the removal of the walls and minefield in Korea.

[Silver]

North Korea has made daily threats to the U.S., we finally have a President who will set a precedence.

Let's dissect your claims, eddie.
North Korea has made daily threats to the U.S.
First, North Korea can't even feed itself. It is the 10 year-old kid with a bad attitude on your street. Lots of noise, but not a serious threat. NK has no missiles that can reach the continental US. As long as the US forces stay a few hundred miles away, North Korea can't hurt us. Further, the war in Korea ended over 60 years ago. It's about time that South Korea toughen up and take care of their own borders. (Did the US expect the French navies to stick around and guard our Atlantic coast for 60 years after the end of the Revolutionary War?) Besides, we're $20 trillion in debt. Why can't you recognize that the Gadiantons have bankrupted our country through multiple, ongoing, foreign wars of conquest? (That is not a rhetorical question.)


we finally have a President who will set a precedence.
There have been a long string of presidents who send our troops to fight against impoverished countries starting with Korea in the early 1950's. Vietnam sound familiar? Iraq and Iran and Afghanistan and Libya? Now Syria. Isn't the record clear, eddie? We didn't win any of those wars. Why can't you see that the prophecies of the destruction of America are being fulfilled right before your very eyes? (That is not a rhetorical question.)

However, in spite of the points above, you know what clearly kills your nonsense argument, eddie? The Church's stance on North Korea. We used to give them food. Food, not fiery rhetoric or threats, not sanctions, not bombings, not anything harmful. So you can talk tough about NK, but it's not the Lord's way. Something to ponder and then choose who's side you want to be on. The Lord's or Satan's.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1997/10/news ... h?lang=eng
Church Aid to North Korea

“We were asked by the First Presidency to assess the current situation in order to determine the nature of further assistance in the northern provinces of [North Korea], where food is in short supply, rationing has been instituted, and there is a potential for famine,” said Elder David E. Sorensen of the Seventy. Elder Sorensen was accompanied on a recent tour of North Korea by Elder Rex D. Pinegar of the Seventy.

From 1995 to the present, the Church has contributed humanitarian aid to the needy people of North Korea through the Red Cross and other agencies. This aid has included 2,600 tons of flour, powdered milk, cooking oil, blankets, and first-aid supplies.

“The country has been mobilized to combat the food shortages, with military personnel, office workers, schoolchildren, and the general populace assisting the farmers in planting needed crops,” Elder Sorensen said. He also noted that Brent Chugg of Latter-day Saint Charities presented and helped plant 500 apple trees donated by the Church. Technical assistance to assess and prevent further soil erosion was provided by Church representative Garry Flake.

“It appeared to us during our tour that relief agencies were distributing aid in an efficient, satisfactory manner,” Elder Sorensen said. “These humanitarian efforts will bless the lives of those suffering in North Korea.”

[Silver]

And here's a talk from the big guy...Thomas S. Monson. Will you please read his words and stop glorifying the US military attacks on North Korea?

Call me a sissy, a kid in my mother's basement, a Trump hater, whatever. I am sick and tired of war and all the ills that accompany it. Won't you all just give peace a chance? Pray for peace. Hope for peace, not war.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1998/06/our- ... s?lang=eng

Our Brothers’ Keepers
By President Thomas S. Monson
First Counselor in the First Presidency

As famine has deepened in North Korea, where we have no members of our faith, they have had a great need for help to eliminate starvation among children and others. We have been able to provide:

2,150 tons of corn, powdered milk, flour, and medical supplies.
400 tons of fertilizer, pesticides, and seeds.
Over 500 seedling apple trees.
Total assistance to date amounting to $3.1 million dollars.
There are ships on the ocean waves right now taking more food to the starving in North Korea. I am happy we could help.

[DesertWonderer]

You last two posts were ONLY 20 years out of context but nice try.

Go Trump!

[Silver]

One of the greatest talks of all time by President Kimball, a real president, not the lying, traitorous kind we get in the White House:

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1974/10/when ... d?lang=eng

Suppose that South Korea with its 37,000,000 people and its 7,500 members were to take care of its own proselyting needs and thus release to go into North Korea and possibly to Russia the hundreds who now go from the states to Korea.

[Silver]

You last two posts were ONLY 20 years out of context but nice try.

Go Trump!

Yes, the Bishop read the letter from the First Presidency today in sacrament meeting instructing all the members to burn any copies of the Ensign over 20 years old. Thanks for the reminder.

[DesertWonderer]

You last two posts were ONLY 20 years out of context but nice try.

Go Trump!

Yes, the Bishop read the letter from the First Presidency today in sacrament meeting instructing all the members to burn any copies of the Ensign over 20 years old. Thanks for the reminder.

No worries. That's what I'm here for.

[Silver]

You last two posts were ONLY 20 years out of context but nice try.

Go Trump!

Yes, the Bishop read the letter from the First Presidency today in sacrament meeting instructing all the members to burn any copies of the Ensign over 20 years old. Thanks for the reminder.

No worries. That's what I'm here for.

Dear all,
Here is a person who actually wants to make the age of a piece of information, not its timeless value, his own personal Alamo. Please burn a candle for him/her.

[eddie]

You last two posts were ONLY 20 years out of context but nice try.

Go Trump!

Make America Great again, " Go Trump!"

[I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS]

Do sanctions really do anything at all?

No. NK is the most sanctioned country in the world and has had repeated rounds of them placed on it for the last few decades. Has done nothing to stop their work.

[I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS]

Putting 3 carrier groups in the same region at once means one of two things. Either the US is placing assets in place in preparation for an overwhelming strike, or it's nothing more than a bluff.
I believe it's the former because as one analyst put it, a threat like this is only good if your adversary believes you'll carry it out. If NK calls the bluff and we don't back it up, Trump will appear just like Obama with his infamous red line threat in Syria. NK will only be emboldened to become more aggressive, ensuring any eventual action would be even more destructive.

[eddie]

Tracy Murphree
May 22 at 7:56pm · Sanger, TX ·
Pay attention to what you see in Manchester England tonight. Pay attention to what is happening in Europe. This is what happens when you disarm your citizens. When you open your borders without the proper vetting. When you allow political correctness to dictate how you respond to an enemy that wants to kill you. When you allow these radicals to travel to Afghanistan and Iran and simply let them back in. When you give up your city's and your neighborhoods to a religious ideology that says you must convert or die. A ideology that treats women as property, kills gays and women and christians with complete impunity. The left tells us we must submit and accept these radical beliefs and bend over backwards to make sure we don't hurt anybody's feelings. The left wants to cater to the very group that would kill every group they claim to support. Folks this is an enemy hell bent on killing you. Committed to forcing you to convert or die. This enemy will strap bombs to their own body and blow themselves up killing children. I'm sick of it. You better wake up America. While you are distracted by the media and the crying of the left, Islamic Jihadist are among us and want to kill you. What will it take? This happening at a concert in Dallas or a school in Denton County? If we don't do something quick this country will die of political correctness and the fear that someone's feelings may be hurt. It may very well be to late for Europe.

[Ezra]

You last two posts were ONLY 20 years out of context but nice try.

Go Trump!

How many years is the Book of Mormon out of content then?

D&c 98

15 For if ye will not abide in my covenant ye are not worthy of me.

16 Therefore, renounce war and proclaim peace, and seek diligently to turn the hearts of the children to their fathers, and the hearts of the fathers to the children;


By granting your support the blood is on your hands as well. And did the lord say you would not be worthy of him??

[eddie]

You last two posts were ONLY 20 years out of context but nice try.

Go Trump!

How many years is the Book of Mormon out of content then?

D&c 98

15 For if ye will not abide in my covenant ye are not worthy of me.

16 Therefore, renounce war and proclaim peace, and seek diligently to turn the hearts of the children to their fathers, and the hearts of the fathers to the children;


By granting your support the blood is on your hands as well. And did the lord say you would not be worthy of him??

A BATTLE or armed conflict; fighting with weapons. The Lord approves of war only as a last means for His Saints to defend their families, property, rights, privileges, and freedoms (Alma 43:9, 45–47).

MORONIsought to defend his people, his rights, his country, and his religion, Alma 48:10–17.

[iWriteStuff]

You last two posts were ONLY 20 years out of context but nice try.

Go Trump!

How many years is the Book of Mormon out of content then?

D&c 98

15 For if ye will not abide in my covenant ye are not worthy of me.

16 Therefore, renounce war and proclaim peace, and seek diligently to turn the hearts of the children to their fathers, and the hearts of the fathers to the children;


By granting your support the blood is on your hands as well. And did the lord say you would not be worthy of him??

A BATTLE or armed conflict; fighting with weapons. The Lord approves of war only as a last means for His Saints to defend their families, property, rights, privileges, and freedoms (Alma 43:9, 45–47).

MORONIsought to defend his people, his rights, his country, and his religion, Alma 48:10–17.

A) Moroni engaged in a DEFENSIVE war. He did not provoke or engage in any sort of pre-emptive attack, even though he KNEW they were coming.

B) Have you been attacked by any Syrians or North Koreans lately? No? Oh, then I guess attacking them is unjustified.

"Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing."

― Dwight D. Eisenhower, some guy who knows things about wars and Presidency

[iWriteStuff]

You last two posts were ONLY 20 years out of context but nice try.

Go Trump!

Yes, the Bishop read the letter from the First Presidency today in sacrament meeting instructing all the members to burn any copies of the Ensign over 20 years old. Thanks for the reminder.

:)) :)) :)) :))

Peace and charity are SO 20 years ago, silver. Get with the times! We are all disciples of General Mattis now:

"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact."

[Ezra]

You last two posts were ONLY 20 years out of context but nice try.

Go Trump!

How many years is the Book of Mormon out of content then?

D&c 98

15 For if ye will not abide in my covenant ye are not worthy of me.

16 Therefore, renounce war and proclaim peace, and seek diligently to turn the hearts of the children to their fathers, and the hearts of the fathers to the children;


By granting your support the blood is on your hands as well. And did the lord say you would not be worthy of him??

A BATTLE or armed conflict; fighting with weapons. The Lord approves of war only as a last means for His Saints to defend their families, property, rights, privileges, and freedoms (Alma 43:9, 45–47).

MORONIsought to defend his people, his rights, his country, and his religion, Alma 48:10–17.

Self defense happens on your own soil. Not in a foreign country.

The lord is more likely to bless them in self defense when it's there own soil if they are praying for help.

[Serragon]

I agree with the sentiments expressed in this thread. I do not believe in aggression. I practice this in my personal life.

But I understand that this principle only works when two things are present. First, a community where others practice and believe the same principle. Second, an entity that uses force to ensure that this principle is maintained in the community.

I am blessed to live in a community where nearly everyone practices and believes in a non-aggression principle. But when someone decides to become aggressive, the government steps in and uses force to fix the problem. This force is always aggressive, as the government has not been wronged.

On the world stage, most countries do not abide by this non-aggression principle. For those that do, we have very little problem with. But since most players are aggressive, and there is no entity on the world stage to right the wrong done by this aggression, it is incumbent that the individual (in this case the USA) to practice their own defense. Often this means you act in an aggressive way, just as the government does when acting in your personal conflicts with neighbors.

As I said, I agree with the sentiment and principle. And this principle is successfully applied when both parties believe in it. But history shows that peace is usually only secured through violence. This is a brutal fact of life that cannot be ignored or wished away through happy thinking.

It is legitimate to question current policies and debate their merits. But I find some of the thinking about the role of aggression on the world stage to be somewhat childish and ignorant of how the world actually is.

[Silver]

I agree with the sentiments expressed in this thread. I do not believe in aggression. I practice this in my personal life.

But I understand that this principle only works when two things are present. First, a community where others practice and believe the same principle. Second, an entity that uses force to ensure that this principle is maintained in the community.

I am blessed to live in a community where nearly everyone practices and believes in a non-aggression principle. But when someone decides to become aggressive, the government steps in and uses force to fix the problem. This force is always aggressive, as the government has not been wronged.

On the world stage, most countries do not abide by this non-aggression principle. For those that do, we have very little problem with. But since most players are aggressive, and there is no entity on the world stage to right the wrong done by this aggression, it is incumbent that the individual (in this case the USA) to practice their own defense. Often this means you act in an aggressive way, just as the government does when acting in your personal conflicts with neighbors.

As I said, I agree with the sentiment and principle. And this principle is successfully applied when both parties believe in it. But history shows that peace is usually only secured through violence. This is a brutal fact of life that cannot be ignored or wished away through happy thinking.

It is legitimate to question current policies and debate their merits. But I find some of the thinking about the role of aggression on the world stage to be somewhat childish and ignorant of how the world actually is.

Three things:
1. We simply can't afford to be the world's policeman any longer. $20 trillion is the amount of US debt that we know about. Future unfunded liabilities are many multiples of that.
2. North Korea has two strong neighbors with historical influence in North Korea. Let them deal with it. Neither Russia nor China want US nuclear weapon radioactive fallout material to drift into their sovereign territory.
3. Constitutionally and scripturally, you are mistaken. There is no mandate from either of those sources for the US to travel half a world away and pounce on a country that can't even feed itself. Follow the money. Cui bono? Cleanse the inner vessel first.