How many Arab children died?

[gclayjr]

Silver,

It does not strengthen your argument when you act obtuse. You are perfectly aware of atrocities committed by US forces overseas.

I'm not being obtuse. War is hell. You were pretty specific. "Rape" and "Pillage". This is not just people getting killed as a result of the nature or war. I am not aware of any American units that were involved in raping or pillaging any villages anywhere. I am sure that there have been individuals, or small groups who may have strayed from proper military discipline, but there have no engagements where our military were ordered to rape and pillage, and I'm sure that there were no significant rogue units involved in that either.

So from what wild anti-American fake conspiracy news source did you get this wild tale?

Regards,

George Clay

PS: Now ISIS...They have raped and pillaged tens of thousands of Kurds and Yazidis, and they're so proud of it that they have taken videos and posted them on the Internet for all to See... but I guess they are just innocent victims reacting to our rapine and pillage ...

[Silver]

Silver,

It does not strengthen your argument when you act obtuse. You are perfectly aware of atrocities committed by US forces overseas.

I'm not being obtuse. War is hell. You were pretty specific. "Rape" and "Pillage". This is not just people getting killed as a result of the nature or war. I am not aware of any American units that were involved in raping or pillaging any villages anywhere. I am sure that there were individuals, or small groups who may have strayed from proper military discipline, but there have no engagements where our military were ordered to rape and pillage, and I'm sure that there were no significant rogue units involved in that either.

So from what wild anti-American fake conspiracy news source did yo get this wild tale?

Regards,

George Clay

Good day, George. When you get in a snit, there's no having a civil discussion with you.

[gclayjr]

SIlver,

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that falsely accusing our American military of raping and pillaging Arab villages was civil!

Regards,

George Clay

[Silver]

SIlver,

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that falsely accusing our American military of raping and pillaging Arab villages was civil!

Regards,

George Clay

George,
Why do you do this? I did not claim that American forces raped and pillaged. I used that standard term as an example of doom that could befall a city under attack by an outside force. You conflated that into a direct connection with our military.

To be clear, America has bombed hospitals and private homes and wedding parties and killed innocent people. So if one of those things happened to your loved ones, would you soon forget, George?

[gclayjr]

Silver,

To be clear, America has bombed hospitals and private homes and wedding parties and killed innocent people. So if one of those things happened to your loved ones, would you soon forget, George?

Clarity is nice. To be clear, most of the people who are killing us are not the relatives of those who were killed by our military attacks. So defending their evil like this is just an America blaming red herring!

It did not take American bombing to inspire the Muslim Brotherhood to murder thousands of Copts in Egypt. It didn't take American bombing for Hamas to murder thousands of Lebanese Christians and take over that country. It wasn't because of American bombing in Afghanistan that the Taliban began killing their own countrymen after ejecting the Soviets. In fact, any historian knows that Afghanis have been killing each other since the beginning of time, and it wasn't even the Soviets that started that. It wasn't American bombing that led to 2 wars between Iran and Iraq which caused over a million casualties. I could go on, but I'm sure no matter how clearly this fact about the reality of Muslim life in the Middle East were to be demonstrated, it will not stop you from blaming America for their anger and assaults.

Regards,

George Clay

[Silver]

Silver,

To be clear, America has bombed hospitals and private homes and wedding parties and killed innocent people. So if one of those things happened to your loved ones, would you soon forget, George?

Clarity is nice. To be clear, most of the people who are killing us are not the relatives of those who were killed by our military attacks. So defending their evil like this is just an America blaming red herring!

It did not take American bombing to inspire the Muslim Brotherhood to murder thousands of Copts in Egypt. It didn't take American bombing for Hamas to murder thousands of Lebanese Christians and take over that country. It wasn't because of American bombing in Afghanistan that the Taliban began killing their own countrymen after ejecting the Soviets. In fact, any historian knows that Afghanis have been killing each other since the beginning of time, and it wasn't even the Soviets that started that. It wasn't American bombing that led to 2 wars between Iran and Iraq which caused over a million casualties. I could go on, but I'm sure no matter how clearly this fact about the reality of Muslim life in the Middle East were to be demonstrated, it will not stop you from blaming America for their anger and assaults.

Regards,

George Clay

Follow the money, George, and your ideas will mellow.

[gclayjr]

Silver,

Follow the money, George, and your ideas will mellow.

And now we go down into the conspiracy wacko rat hole. I suppose I should have known that when when all was said and done, this was behind your ridiculous assertions.

Thank you for again clarifying just how warped a view of the world people get when they embrace the Jewish banker conspiracy mantra!

Regards,

George Clay

[gclayjr]

Silver,

Let's see if I understand your thinking process

The Muslim Terrorists are attacking us because we have raped and pillaged their villages....

No...OK that isn't really true... They are attacking us because of their hatred for us because we killed their relatives in missile attacks...

OK I guess that really isn't it..

Yeah, I know,It really is because of the evil machinations of a cabal of Jewish bankers.. Yea that is really it!


Is this how your mind works?

Regards,

George Clay

[Alaris]

http://www.breitbart.com/national-secur ... -in-jesus/

Secret Combinations exist in our government.

You can buy anything in this world with money.

Last but not least - Whether Islam was founded by the devil himself, the devil sure has used Islam for his agenda. Not coincidentally, a giant Mosque was built right on the temple mount in Jerusalem. Not coincidentally, the majority of Islam wants the Jews out of the Holy Land. Many celebrate when Jews are murdered.

So you are all right to one degree or anther. Peace

[Silver]

I've read the Book of Mormon so many times I've lost count. I read it every day. It is my favorite book and it still pains me, every time, when I read of the Nephites dissensions and descent into destruction. We've been taught that the Book of Mormon is a guide to these latter-days and I see now how otherwise good members of the Lord's church would walk away from the teachings of the Lord and accept a wicked form of government.

The warnings from the prophets don't count now because they're too old. OK, got it.

[larsenb]

larsonb,

But George, there is a cause and effect here. Do you really think the masses of Muslim immigrants would be coming into Europe and elsewhere if we had minded our own business; or that they would be committing their own atrocities both there and in this country if we had not interfered in their countries?

And I hope you don't think I condone purposely killing defenseless and innocent people, regardless of where they are located. I don't. People who do so should be dealt with to the full extent of the law.

The first purpose of a country is the just protection of its own people, especially from physical violence. And a first line of defense is for the country to prevent ingress into the country of any aliens bent on harming its people. This isn't done with open borders; it isn't done without vetting those wanting entry.

Yes, I do!

We are ,currently, barely involved in the fighting gong on there. You and the other blame America first snowflakes, can always construct a chain of events that lays the blame at us, but the fact of the matter, they are NOT fleeing American bombs, they are NOT fleeing American fighting forces,. They are fleeing the killings by their fellow Islamics who are killing them because they are not the right flavor.

Most of you blame America firsters, justify your "logic" based upon some flavor of the idea that some totalitarian thug was brutally keeping the "lid" on all of this and our interference removed his benevolent totalitarian leadership, and his gulags, prisons, and killing fields that kept all of this in check...

So it is America's fault...we are responsible and deserve what we get

How pathetic!

Regards,

George Clay

George, I don’t mind the mind-set of American Exceptionalism . . . . . provided we act exceptional, in the best meaning of that term. Otherwise . . . NOT.

You, on the other hand seem to be very much caught up in this attitude, and additionally in the mind-set of: America, right or wrong. I am not.

Additionally, unlike yourself (your own admission), I’ve had first-hand experience with war, being an Army draftee sent to Vietnam. I’ve seen blood and gore up close. And you actually think I’m a “blame America first snowflake”?? You’ve greatly missed the mark on that one.

Smedley Butler, I think, had a very accurate description and awareness of the true role he was playing in the military. From things Pres. J. Reuben Clark has said and written, he would undoubtedly agree with Smedley, and could even be characterized as one of the early ‘economic hit men’. Clark even predicted that ‘they’ were planning another great war. But you would undoubtedly dismiss him as a ‘conspiracy theorist’.

My own view of war and self-defense in general, is that the only thing justifying it is direct defense of your home, your family, your country . . . . and only when these things are being directly attacked. Which position, of course, is entirely in keeping with the Book of Mormon on this subject.

But if some foreigner comes into a country and purposefully murders innocent people, he has tagged himself as a murderer and should be dealt with as one, whether he is a Muslim or some other persuasion.

[marc]

Fast forward to one minute:

.
.

[Original_Intent]

"What is it about Christians and conservatives that they can be so easily duped into supporting war? What is it that makes them not only overlook and excuse wars of aggression but also enthusiastically endorse and champion such wars? Nothing builds the size and scope of government like WAR; nothing creates socialist government like WAR; nothing causes people to accept authoritarian government like WAR; nothing separates families like WAR; nothing leaves children homeless and helpless like WAR; nothing fills the political swamp like WAR; nothing empowers globalists like WAR; nothing destroys a country’s economy like WAR; nothing destroys truth like WAR; and nothing sears the conscience of a people like WAR. Yet, professing Christians and conservatives from Alex Jones to Jerry Falwell, Jr. to Mike Huckabee to Tony Perkins continue to laud Donald 'Trump as a great 'conservative' even as he prepares to take America into yet another senseless, unconstitutional, and perhaps global WAR" (Chuck Baldwin).

:ymapplause: :ymapplause: :ymapplause:

[gclayjr]

larsonb,

George, I don’t mind the mind-set of American Exceptionalism . . . . . provided we act exceptional, in the best meaning of that term. Otherwise . . . NOT.

You, on the other hand seem to be very much caught up in this attitude, and additionally in the mind-set of: America, right or wrong. I am not.

Additionally, unlike yourself (your own admission), I’ve had first-hand experience with war, being an Army draftee sent to Vietnam. I’ve seen blood and gore up close. And you actually think I’m a “blame America first snowflake”?? You’ve greatly missed the mark on that one.

Smedley Butler, I think, had a very accurate description and awareness of the true role he was playing in the military. From things Pres. J. Reuben Clark has said and written, he would undoubtedly agree with Smedley, and could even be characterized as one of the early ‘economic hit men’. Clark even predicted that ‘they’ were planning another great war. But you would undoubtedly dismiss him as a ‘conspiracy theorist’.

My own view of war and self-defense in general, is that the only thing justifying it is direct defense of your home, your family, your country . . . . and only when these things are being directly attacked. Which position, of course, is entirely in keeping with the Book of Mormon on this subject.

But if some foreigner comes into a country and purposefully murders innocent people, he has tagged himself as a murderer and should be dealt with as one, whether he is a Muslim or some other persuasion.

I think that we agree on much. The point where there seems to be confusion is whether it is our "fault" that these Muslims terrorize, kill, and hate us. I do believe in American exceptional-ism, when we follow the path laid out by our founding fathers and the constitution. I do not believe that I am blind to our mistakes. However, the point I have been trying to make is that they would come after us anyway.

I don't think that getting mixed up in fights that probably we shouldn't have makes a whit of difference in their motivation for coming after us. I also believe that the history of Islamic countries and empires dramatically proves this. I think much of this could be also said of Europe, and any where eise that Muslims describe as Dar Al-Harb, or the house of war, which, in reality, is anywhere that has not yet submitted to Islam!

Regards,

George Clay

[Separatist]

Must read:

We Kill Because We Can: From Soldiering to Assassination in the Drone Age
https://www.amazon.com/Kill-Because-Can ... 1783605480

Must Watch:

National Bird

Kris Kristofferson: Don´t let the bastards get you down

[Separatist]

Are We Fighting Terrorism, Or Creating More Terrorism?
http://original.antiwar.com/paul/2017/0 ... terrorism/

by Ron Paul Posted on May 28, 2017

When we think about terrorism we most often think about the horrors of a Manchester-like attack, where a radicalized suicide bomber went into a concert hall and killed dozens of innocent civilians. It was an inexcusable act of savagery and it certainly did terrorize the population.

What is less considered are attacks that leave far more civilians dead, happen nearly daily instead of rarely, and produce a constant feeling of terror and dread. These are the civilians on the receiving end of US and allied bombs in places like Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, Somalia, and elsewhere.

Last week alone, US and “coalition” attacks on Syria left more than 200 civilians dead and many hundreds more injured. In fact, even though US intervention in Syria was supposed to protect the population from government attacks, US-led air strikes have killed more civilians over the past month than air strikes of the Assad government. That is like a doctor killing his patient to save him.

Do we really believe we are fighting terrorism by terrorizing innocent civilians overseas? How long until we accept that “collateral damage” is just another word for “murder”?

The one so-called success of the recent G7 summit in Sicily was a general agreement to join together to “fight terrorism.” Have we not been in a “war on terrorism” for the past 16 years? What this really means is more surveillance of innocent civilians, a crackdown on free speech and the Internet, and many more bombs dropped overseas. Will doing more of what we have been doing do the trick? Hardly! After 16 years fighting terrorism, it is even worse than before we started. This can hardly be considered success.

They claim that more government surveillance will keep us safe. But the UK is already the most intrusive surveillance state in the western world. The Manchester bomber was surely on the radar screen. According to press reports, he was known to the British intelligence services, he had traveled and possibly trained in bomb-making in Libya and Syria, his family members warned the authorities that he was dangerous, and he even flew terrorist flags over his house. What more did he need to do to signal that he may be a problem? Yet somehow even in Orwellian UK, the authorities missed all the clues.

But it is even worse than that. The British government actually granted permission for its citizens of Libyan background to travel to Libya and fight alongside al-Qaeda to overthrow Gaddafi. After months of battle and indoctrination, it then welcomed these radicalized citizens back to the UK. And we are supposed to be surprised and shocked that they attack?

The real problem is that both Washington and London are more interested in regime change overseas than any blowback that might come to the rest of us back home. They just do not care about the price we pay for their foreign policy actions. No grand announcement of new resolve to “fight terrorism” can be successful unless we understand what really causes terrorism. They do not hate us because we are rich and free. They hate us because we are over there, bombing them.

[gclayjr]

ALL Recent!!!

ISIS beheading Children
http://www.nairaland.com/1850167/graphi ... -christian

List of Syrian Massacres Many Perps... but not U.S.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... _Civil_War

Muslim attacks on European women... so what?
http://solsticewitch13.blogspot.com/201 ... women.html

Sunni Extremists slaughter 28 Coptic Christians in Egypt
https://moderntokyonews.com/2017/05/26/ ... f-ramadan/

Islamic State murders Women and CHildren for refusing sex
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/05/isla ... fusing-sex

and on and on and on..

Yea, if it weren't for evil despicable Uncle Sam... run secretly by Jewish Bankers, they would all be linking arms and singing we are the world with flowers in their hair... instead of murdering everybody

Yea, These guys would just be peaceable and leave us alone if only the evil United States would just leave them alone!

Pathetic the reasoning of so many here!... and the hatred they have for their own country!!

Regards,

George Clay

[larsenb]

larsonb,

George, I don’t mind the mind-set of American Exceptionalism . . . . . provided we act exceptional, in the best meaning of that term. Otherwise . . . NOT.

You, on the other hand seem to be very much caught up in this attitude, and additionally in the mind-set of: America, right or wrong. I am not.

Additionally, unlike yourself (your own admission), I’ve had first-hand experience with war, being an Army draftee sent to Vietnam. I’ve seen blood and gore up close. And you actually think I’m a “blame America first snowflake”?? You’ve greatly missed the mark on that one.

Smedley Butler, I think, had a very accurate description and awareness of the true role he was playing in the military. From things Pres. J. Reuben Clark has said and written, he would undoubtedly agree with Smedley, and could even be characterized as one of the early ‘economic hit men’. Clark even predicted that ‘they’ were planning another great war. But you would undoubtedly dismiss him as a ‘conspiracy theorist’.

My own view of war and self-defense in general, is that the only thing justifying it is direct defense of your home, your family, your country . . . . and only when these things are being directly attacked. Which position, of course, is entirely in keeping with the Book of Mormon on this subject.

But if some foreigner comes into a country and purposefully murders innocent people, he has tagged himself as a murderer and should be dealt with as one, whether he is a Muslim or some other persuasion.

I think that we agree on much. The point where there seems to be confusion is whether it is our "fault" that these Muslims terrorize, kill, and hate us. I do believe in American exceptional-ism, when we follow the path laid out by our founding fathers and the constitution. I do not believe that I am blind to our mistakes. However, the point I have been trying to make is that they would come after us anyway.

I don't think that getting mixed up in fights that probably we shouldn't have makes a whit of difference in their motivation for coming after us. I also believe that the history of Islamic countries and empires dramatically proves this. I think much of this could be also said of Europe, and any where eise that Muslims describe as Dar Al-Harb, or the house of war, which, in reality, is anywhere that has not yet submitted to Islam!

Regards,

George Clay

OK. We’ll just have to disagree on that point. There are several Muslim countries that take no hand or presumption in fighting the rest of the world. I.e., they aren’t active participants in fighting Dar al-Harb.

And, as illustrated by articles offered by Separatist/Sliver et al., Europe and US have played a rather active part in creating conditions that would activate what might be regarded as latent antagonism that would normally, and in our current age, lie rather dormant in the Muslim world . . . in terms of some of them coming over here and creating mayhem in our part of the world and perhaps attacking what they regard as foreign elements in their own countries.

[Ezra]

ALL Recent!!!

ISIS beheading Children
http://www.nairaland.com/1850167/graphi ... -christian

List of Syrian Massacres Many Perps... but not U.S.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... _Civil_War

Muslim attacks on European women... so what?
http://solsticewitch13.blogspot.com/201 ... women.html

Sunni Extremists slaughter 28 Coptic Christians in Egypt
https://moderntokyonews.com/2017/05/26/ ... f-ramadan/

Islamic State murders Women and CHildren for refusing sex
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/05/isla ... fusing-sex

and on and on and on..

Yea, if it weren't for evil despicable Uncle Sam... run secretly by Jewish Bankers, they would all be linking arms and singing we are the world with flowers in their hair... instead of murdering everybody

Yea, These guys would just be peaceable and leave us alone if only the evil United States would just leave them alone!

Pathetic the reasoning of so many here!... and the hatred they have for their own country!!

Regards,

George Clay

That like saying that we should only look at others sins and not our own.

It's wonderful that people will look to their own sins and the sins of their country over the sins of others.

We all realize that they are not perfect. We are not burying our heads in the sand. We are being very rational about what is happening.

We have meddled in there business. There has been backlashes. They do horrible things. We do horrible things.

We cannot expect them to stop when we have not stopped. Unless we want to wipe them off the face of the earth they will continue to fight against us since we are fighting against them.

Trying to gain control over something that is outside our jurisdiction isn't the easiest thing to accomplish.
I feel our energy would be better spent trying to end the evils we are allowing to happen by our own county then try to stop them from happening in another country.

Is it easyer George to change things about yourself or about someone you have never met?

Is it easyer to control things that happen in your own house or in your neighbors house?

Is it easyer to control things happening in your own country or some other country?

[larsenb]

Must read:

We Kill Because We Can: From Soldiering to Assassination in the Drone Age
https://www.amazon.com/Kill-Because-Can ... 1783605480

Must Watch:

National Bird

Kris Kristofferson: Don´t let the bastards get you down

The drone program is diabolical. Sickening. The complete opposite of General Moroni's attitude and actions. It is goes totally against the concept, and certainly the Christian concept, of just warfare.

The only perps (operators of the remote cameras and those who decide on the hits) who aren't horribly psychologically affected by this kind of activity would be full-blown psychopaths.