Trump and Mormon masculinity.

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Fiannan
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Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Fiannan »

Paglia recently commented:
First of all, I must emphasize that I am a registered Democrat who voted for Bernie Sanders in the primaries and Jill Stein in the general election. Having said that, I will don my political analyst hat and say that Donald Trump’s retro style of confident masculinity (which dates from the Frank Sinatra/Hugh Hefner period) was surely a major factor in his victory and represents what was probably an inevitable and necessary course correction in American gender relations. The delirious excesses of unscientific campus gender theory, translated into intrusive government regulations by elite school graduates saturating the Obama administration, finally hit a wall with the electorate. The mainstream big-city media too have become strident echo chambers of campus gender dogma, as demonstrated by last year’s New York Times fiasco, where two wet-behind-the-ears reporters fell on their faces in trying to prosecute the Trump of his casino days as a vile sexist. I mercilessly mocked that vacuous article in my Salon.com column and stand by every word I wrote.
http://freebeacon.com/culture/prominent ... -feminism/

While Paglia does not say a word about Mormons I wonder if some of the antagonism against Trump that still comes from some portions of the LDS population is actually due to what Paglia describes as Trump's persona. Christianity in general has lost that sort of maleness in the past 20 years because they were too sensitive to charges that Christianity was too male-dominated. Mormons were especially sensitive to this due to the whole priesthood thing. So to compensate the Church went more towards emphasizing a female perspective at the same time the Church appears to see priesthood in the same way a parent does when they get a kid in the car and start lecturing them because they are a captive audience; use it to chastise the men. So men get the message that being masculine is a negative way to be. The guys who are all sensitive, speak softly, can sing well, and dress cute get the admiring glances while the men who are loud, assertive and steadfast in their attitudes are accused of arrogance and roughness. So maybe that is why so many Mormons (not a majority but a disturbingly large minority) hated Trump with a passion.

What think ye?

Todd
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Todd »

Fiannan wrote: May 16th, 2017, 2:02 am
...the Church appears to see priesthood in the same way a parent does when they get a kid in the car and start lecturing them because they are a captive audience; use it to chastise the men. So men get the message that being masculine is a negative way to be. The guys who are all sensitive, speak softly, can sing well, and dress cute get the admiring glances while the men who are loud, assertive and steadfast in their attitudes are accused of arrogance and roughness. So maybe that is why so many Mormons (not a majority but a disturbingly large minority) hated Trump with a passion.

What think ye?

Here are some of the traits that the Lord wants us as Priesthood holders to embrace (from Elder Nelson's April 2016 conf. talk) : "...faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness, charity, and diligence. And don’t forget humility..."

I know many powerful men who speak softly, are sensitive to others needs and sing in the ward choir.

Silver
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Silver »

My antagonism towards Trump is based on his words and actions. He is a liar. He has killed innocent people. He has hired bad people for his administration. He also speaks like an idiot.

I should seek funding for a huge Hollywood movie.
The title: The Tower of Babel
The lead role: The Marmalade In Chief

Fiannan
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Posts: 12983

Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Fiannan »

I know many powerful men who speak softly, are sensitive to others needs and sing in the ward choir.
And many that aren't quiet. We cannot project the image that the ones who display more feminine (seen in the context of traditional societal paradigms) are in some way closer to God than those who are more bold, competitive and forceful. I believe this is why some Mormons found Trump not too their liking just as many of those same people are not all that fond of Brigham Young; a man who said it like he saw it.

Fiannan
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Fiannan »

Silver wrote: May 16th, 2017, 7:34 am My antagonism towards Trump is based on his words and actions. He is a liar. He has killed innocent people. He has hired bad people for his administration. He also speaks like an idiot.

I should seek funding for a huge Hollywood movie.
The title: The Tower of Babel
The lead role: The Marmalade In Chief
Strange, one of the more popular symbols for the European Union is the Tower of Babel. And we know how much the power structure of the elites in the EU hate Trump. Gotta love the down-turned pentagrams that generally symbolize the power of man as opposed to the upside up pentagram which in occult sciences usually infers a worship of divinity.

Image

As for your accusations against Trump I must wonder if you get your "news" from CNN or MSNBC.

Todd
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Posts: 460

Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Todd »

Fiannan wrote: May 16th, 2017, 7:39 am
I know many powerful men who speak softly, are sensitive to others needs and sing in the ward choir.
And many that aren't quiet...
Huh?

Fiannan
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Posts: 12983

Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Fiannan »

Todd wrote: May 16th, 2017, 7:50 am
Fiannan wrote: May 16th, 2017, 7:39 am
I know many powerful men who speak softly, are sensitive to others needs and sing in the ward choir.
And many that aren't quiet...
Huh?
I heard more than a few Mormons who said they did not like trump because he was loud. In my personal experiences I have found soft-spoken men to often have more than one thing in common with this character:

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/vil ... 0529111942

Silver
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Silver »

Fiannan wrote: May 16th, 2017, 7:43 am
Silver wrote: May 16th, 2017, 7:34 am My antagonism towards Trump is based on his words and actions. He is a liar. He has killed innocent people. He has hired bad people for his administration. He also speaks like an idiot.

I should seek funding for a huge Hollywood movie.
The title: The Tower of Babel
The lead role: The Marmalade In Chief
Strange, one of the more popular symbols for the European Union is the Tower of Babel. And we know how much the power structure of the elites in the EU hate Trump. Gotta love the down-turned pentagrams that generally symbolize the power of man as opposed to the upside up pentagram which in occult sciences usually infers a worship of divinity.

Image

As for your accusations against Trump I must wonder if you get your "news" from CNN or MSNBC.
Did you not know that innocent people died in Syria when Trump launched 59 missiles at an airbase there? Are you aware that Trump approves the sale of military hardware to the House of Saud which they are using to indiscriminately kill Yemeni noncombatants? Are you aware that Trump approved more funding to Planned Parenthood? Death and destruction paid for with my taxes. I'm opposed to that.

As for your wondering, I only watch liberal news sites in an attempt to know my enemy. Normally, I like sites like www.zerohedge.com and www.alt-market.com and the John Birch Society's New American online site.

Fiannan
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Fiannan »

Did you not know that innocent people died in Syria when Trump launched 59 missiles at an airbase there? Are you aware that Trump approves the sale of military hardware to the House of Saud which they are using to indiscriminately kill Yemeni noncombatants? Are you aware that Trump approved more funding to Planned Parenthood? Death and destruction paid for with my taxes. I'm opposed to that.
All of which has caused many Trump supporters to publicly state their opposition to these actions -- something quite rare in the Democrat Party today. So while we can hope he changes on those stands we can be sure that if anyone like Crazy John McCain or Hillary was in charge we would likely be seeing many of our cities going full mushroom once Russia and/or China were tired of American aggressions.

Silver
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Silver »

Fiannan wrote: May 16th, 2017, 8:10 am
Did you not know that innocent people died in Syria when Trump launched 59 missiles at an airbase there? Are you aware that Trump approves the sale of military hardware to the House of Saud which they are using to indiscriminately kill Yemeni noncombatants? Are you aware that Trump approved more funding to Planned Parenthood? Death and destruction paid for with my taxes. I'm opposed to that.
All of which has caused many Trump supporters to publicly state their opposition to these actions -- something quite rare in the Democrat Party today. So while we can hope he changes on those stands we can be sure that if anyone like Crazy John McCain or Hillary was in charge we would likely be seeing many of our cities going full mushroom once Russia and/or China were tired of American aggressions.
Hope he changes? Sorry, that sounds like an Obama election campaign poster. While it's true that the Democrat Party rarely criticizes their own, I'm not able to influence many of them. So I try to persuade "conservatives" to see that the government they want is not being delivered to them. We have the same thing happening because the same cadre of CFR/NWO/elites are in charge. It doesn't matter who sits in the Oval Office as long as the Gadiantons pull the strings.

Thanks for at least admitting that Trump is a murderer.

Fiannan
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Fiannan »

Thanks for at least admitting that Trump is a murderer.
Prophets killed people; were they murderers?

Silver
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Silver »

Fiannan wrote: May 16th, 2017, 8:49 am
Thanks for at least admitting that Trump is a murderer.
Prophets killed people; were they murderers?
I'll pray for you.

JohnnyL
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by JohnnyL »

I think it has to do more with "show me a handsome (or pretty) face, even if your heart is ugly."

Fiannan
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Fiannan »

Silver wrote: May 16th, 2017, 8:49 am
Fiannan wrote: May 16th, 2017, 8:49 am
Thanks for at least admitting that Trump is a murderer.
Prophets killed people; were they murderers?
I'll pray for you.
Likewise. Again though, why are men leaving Christianity in droves? It is because it has gone too far towards the feminine and is out of balance. You need both aspects of humanity represented. Now that we are phasing out the scouting program we can hope that´what replaces it is something is going to be facilitate manly values.

Silver
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Silver »

Fiannan wrote: May 16th, 2017, 12:51 pm
Silver wrote: May 16th, 2017, 8:49 am
Fiannan wrote: May 16th, 2017, 8:49 am
Thanks for at least admitting that Trump is a murderer.
Prophets killed people; were they murderers?
I'll pray for you.
Likewise. Again though, why are men leaving Christianity in droves? It is because it has gone too far towards the feminine and is out of balance. You need both aspects of humanity represented. Now that we are phasing out the scouting program we can hope that´what replaces it is something is going to be facilitate manly values.
I already answered your query as it related to Trump and you then questioned my news sources, assuming, incorrectly, that I fed off of the liberal media that has betrayed their responsibility. Why are you now asking me again? Can we just focus on one point at a time instead running around helter-skelter seemingly unable to ever grasp what each other are saying?

Fiannan
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Posts: 12983

Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Fiannan »

Silver wrote: May 16th, 2017, 1:03 pm
Fiannan wrote: May 16th, 2017, 12:51 pm
Silver wrote: May 16th, 2017, 8:49 am
Fiannan wrote: May 16th, 2017, 8:49 am

Prophets killed people; were they murderers?
I'll pray for you.
Likewise. Again though, why are men leaving Christianity in droves? It is because it has gone too far towards the feminine and is out of balance. You need both aspects of humanity represented. Now that we are phasing out the scouting program we can hope that´what replaces it is something is going to be facilitate manly values.
I already answered your query as it related to Trump and you then questioned my news sources, assuming, incorrectly, that I fed off of the liberal media that has betrayed their responsibility. Why are you now asking me again? Can we just focus on one point at a time instead running around helter-skelter seemingly unable to ever grasp what each other are saying?
The original post is posing the idea that Trump represents masculinity and that this turns off a certain segment of the Mormon population that think that being forceful is wrong. Re-read it.

Silver
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Silver »

Fiannan wrote: May 16th, 2017, 1:15 pm
Silver wrote: May 16th, 2017, 1:03 pm
Fiannan wrote: May 16th, 2017, 12:51 pm
Silver wrote: May 16th, 2017, 8:49 am

I'll pray for you.
Likewise. Again though, why are men leaving Christianity in droves? It is because it has gone too far towards the feminine and is out of balance. You need both aspects of humanity represented. Now that we are phasing out the scouting program we can hope that´what replaces it is something is going to be facilitate manly values.
I already answered your query as it related to Trump and you then questioned my news sources, assuming, incorrectly, that I fed off of the liberal media that has betrayed their responsibility. Why are you now asking me again? Can we just focus on one point at a time instead running around helter-skelter seemingly unable to ever grasp what each other are saying?
The original post is posing the idea that Trump represents masculinity and that this turns off a certain segment of the Mormon population that think that being forceful is wrong. Re-read it.
I assure you, the reading comprehension issue is not on my end. You wrote:
"...I wonder if some of the antagonism against Trump that still comes from some portions of the LDS population is actually due to what Paglia describes as Trump's persona. So maybe that is why so many Mormons (not a majority but a disturbingly large minority) hated Trump with a passion."

I responded to those sentences in your opening post, and to those sentences alone. Whereupon you then challenged my news sources. I made the mistake of correcting your assumptions and now find myself stuck in a vortex of you forgetting why we're having this discussion in the first place.

larsenb
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by larsenb »

Fiannan wrote: May 16th, 2017, 1:15 pm
Silver wrote: May 16th, 2017, 1:03 pm
Fiannan wrote: May 16th, 2017, 12:51 pm
Silver wrote: May 16th, 2017, 8:49 am

I'll pray for you.
Likewise. Again though, why are men leaving Christianity in droves? It is because it has gone too far towards the feminine and is out of balance. You need both aspects of humanity represented. Now that we are phasing out the scouting program we can hope that´what replaces it is something is going to be facilitate manly values.
I already answered your query as it related to Trump and you then questioned my news sources, assuming, incorrectly, that I fed off of the liberal media that has betrayed their responsibility. Why are you now asking me again? Can we just focus on one point at a time instead running around helter-skelter seemingly unable to ever grasp what each other are saying?
The original post is posing the idea that Trump represents masculinity and that this turns off a certain segment of the Mormon population that think that being forceful is wrong. Re-read it.
I think your point is well taken. And complementing his masculine assertiveness is his ability to break out of politically correct strictures. I love seeing that in the man.`

Silver
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Silver »

Yeah, masculine like killing more innocent people in Yemen. "I saw Satan laughing with delight..."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-1 ... udi-arabia

US Nears Record $100 Billion Arms Deal For Saudi Arabia

Tyler Durden's picture
by Tyler Durden
May 16, 2017 6:30 PM
Authored by Jason Ditz via TheAntiMedia.org,

Earlier this month, US officials said the US was seeking to reach “billions” of dollars in arms sales to Saudi Arabia as part of Trump’s visit to Riyadh. With a week left before the visit, officials now say the White House is very close to the deal, and that it will amount to over $100 billion in sales.

Details are still emerging, but the plan is for this to set out a series of growing deals over the next decade that will involve more than $300 billion going to arms dealers, not just to arm the Saudis, but in extra aid to Israel to ensure their “qualitative military edge” over the Saudis.

White House officials said the move would be good for the economy, and insisted that building Saudi Arabia’s already substantial military was “essential” because of regional problems. Saudi Arabia, of course, spends much of its military budget invading Yemen and trying to reinstall former President Hadi in power.

Given Saudi Arabia’s Yemen-centric foreign policy, US sales are likely to be heavily on warplanes and bombs to drop on northern Yemen, as the conflict has lasted far longer than the Saudis anticipated, and there is little sign they are interested in extricating themselves from the conflict anytime soon.

How much this means Israel will get greatly depends on the sort of weapons the US is giving Saudi Arabia, and particularly if there is anything “new” in the shipments, or just more of the same old stuff. The US commitment to ensuring Israel has an advantage over the rest of the Middle East militarily, while at the same time selling large amounts of arms to the rest of the Middle East, has been icing on the cake for US arms makers, who end up supplying all sides of this arms race.

Silver
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Silver »

What does it say about the masculinity of a man who swore to protect and defend the Constitution and then attacked Syria without legal cause? What does it say about his manhood for him to sell weapons to the people who attacked us on 11Sep2001? Now would be a good time for people on this forum to get a clue.

Silver
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Silver »

It's called "competitive masculinity" and it ain't real, but it fools a lot of voters.
competitive masculinity.jpg
competitive masculinity.jpg (203.01 KiB) Viewed 1220 times

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SmallFarm
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by SmallFarm »

I think some men have bought into a false idea of what it means to be manly. They teach their sons this false idea of what it means to be a man who then go to school and call softer spoken boys "girls" and later worse. Some of those boys go on to believe it. Then the men who bought into the false idea of masculinity blame the mothers that taught their boys that men could be soft spoken.....

Fiannan
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Fiannan »

Silver wrote: May 16th, 2017, 5:53 pm What does it say about the masculinity of a man who swore to protect and defend the Constitution and then attacked Syria without legal cause? What does it say about his manhood for him to sell weapons to the people who attacked us on 11Sep2001? Now would be a good time for people on this forum to get a clue.
IN remembrance of Ronald Reagan there you go again. Specific issues were not the context of the original post. The post is in reference to persona and image. Most of the Mormons who did not like Trump don't even know where Yemen is, much less give a you-know-what about what is going on there. Most of them are like a large percentage of Americans in general, they read headlines, they watch Disney programs and keep up on sports or celebrity gossip -- except on the latter they feel self-righteous in regards to expressing how decadent the latest starlet is in regards to how much cleavage she is showing at an awards ceremony, except they anxiously await the release of her new movie. Image is what matters to them. Humans are like that and always will be. Maybe that is why God made Isaiah preach in the nude to the Isrealites for three years -- to shake them up a bit seeing a member of the elite of their society act like a common laborer.

Fiannan
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by Fiannan »

SmallFarm wrote: May 16th, 2017, 6:13 pm I think some men have bought into a false idea of what it means to be manly. They teach their sons this false idea of what it means to be a man who then go to school and call softer spoken boys "girls" and later worse. Some of those boys go on to believe it. Then the men who bought into the false idea of masculinity blame the mothers that taught their boys that men could be soft spoken.....
Uh...yeah...sure. What is that saying, "“History is filled with the sound of silken slippers going downstairs and wooden shoes coming up.” Voltaire

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brianj
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Re: Trump and Mormon masculinity.

Post by brianj »

Fiannan wrote: May 16th, 2017, 7:43 am Strange, one of the more popular symbols for the European Union is the Tower of Babel. And we know how much the power structure of the elites in the EU hate Trump. Gotta love the down-turned pentagrams that generally symbolize the power of man as opposed to the upside up pentagram which in occult sciences usually infers a worship of divinity.

Image
So... do you really believe the Salt Lake Temple is a monument that symbolizes the power of man?
Image

The last I heard a five pointed star with a downward point was historically a symbol of the morning star. And who is referred to as the morning star in Rev 2:28 and 22:16?

The downward pointing star was also used on both Nauvoo temples, and many Christian churches in Europe from the middle ages. And I am not aware of published claims the downward pointing star is symbolic of self or Satan warship that predate the first Nauvoo temple.

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