My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

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SJR3t2
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My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

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My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement https://seekingyhwh.com/2017/04/30/my-t ... -movement/

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BTH&T
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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

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My first impulse on anything DS is to ignore it and go the other way as fast as I can!
For some reason I read the link and it was helpful to understand things I've read and heard here on LDSFF.

Thanks for the link, Are you Steven?

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SJR3t2
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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

Post by SJR3t2 »

I am Steven, and yes this is my blog. I'm glad you liked what I brought out.

simpleton
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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

Post by simpleton »

SJR3t2 wrote: May 8th, 2017, 11:42 am My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement https://seekingyhwh.com/2017/04/30/my-t ... -movement/
So SJR3T2 you really actually believe this:

Considering all the evil deeds the LDS church has done in it’s past, including that I believe that Brigham Young helped plan Joseph Smith’s murder....

Now that is one astounding belief. Coming from somebody who was, or is, or might still be LDS, or at least believe in Mormonism. But I suppose that it is possible that those following Denver can come to that idea beings Denver rejects Brigham Young. And for that matter I would suppose Denver and his followers would probably write Joseph off also if it wasn't for the fact that Joseph is the foundation or built the foundation. And even still Denver suggests the possibility of Joseph being a fallen prophet.
Well everyone has a right to believe whatever they want, but as for me I think Denver no question has received visitations along with other "dreamers" from some being claiming to be Christ, but a false one and/or an imposter.
IMO if Denver and followers continue on the priestcrafting path,,,, well I won't say..

Again ... Brigham Young planned Joseph's death???? Now that is about as laughable as it comes...

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SJR3t2
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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

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I grew up LDS but I removed my name. https://seekingyhwh.com/about/ https://seekingyhwh.com/2015/01/18/lds- ... on-letter/

I do believe that Jesus is the Christ and that Joseph Smith saw Jesus Christ face to face and that the Book of Mormon is the word of God.

I also agree that Denver Snuffer is not what he or his followers say he is.

There is much to substantiate the idea that Brigham Young helped plan Joseph Smith murder. Here is something that someone else wrote.
Chronologicy of the evidence leading to the murders of Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith and Samuel Smith.
The U.S. posted bounties of $400 each for the capture of Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum Smith.
These two men were accused to be public enemies and a threat to the national security of America.
The cases on both brothers were for the crimes of treason.
The government had also posted an official Missouri Executive Order 44, often called the “Mormon Extermination Order“
Wanted Dead or Alive Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith.
Joseph Smith Jr.: Arrested 1843 for treason against Missouri, released on writ of habeas corpus by Nauvoo municipal court before extradition.
Missouri governor offered bounty of $400 for kidnapping Joseph Smith Jr. back to Missouri 1843.
Willard Richards is promised a reward for the capture of Joseph Smith.
Willard Richards the cousin of Brigham Young promises to lead Joseph Smith to Carthage jail in Illinois to collect the reward of $400.
Brigham Young goes to seek his and his cousin Willard Richard's rewards from the Government.
Brigham Young is promised asylum and a reward of $10,000 for the deaths of Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith and to lead the Mormons to battle against the Mexicans.
Eye witness accounts accuse the cousin of Brigham Young (Willard Richards) of shooting Joseph Smith twice in the back and then pushing him out the window.
Brigham Young receives a bounty reward of $10,000 from the US. Government as agreed for the capture and execution of Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith for aiding and abetting the offense of the crime of treason against the United States and to lead the Mormon Battalion into war against Mexico.
Willard Richards insists the Mormons don´t ordain Samuel Smith (the brother of Joseph Smith) to be the new leader of the church and tells the congregation to wait for Brigham Young´s return because he has received a money to aid the poor of the church.
The general members of the church are not informed how Brigham Young obtained the money other than the brief explanation that Brigham Young was granted a large sum of money from the US. Government to help aid the members of the church.
Lucy Mack Smith the mother of Joseph Smith suspects foul play and accuses Willard Richards, Brigham Young and the brother of Brigham Young, Joseph Young, of conspiracy to murder her sons.
Willard Richards, the cousin of Brigham Young ,sent Hosea Stout to give a drink to Samuel Smith and shortly after Samuel Smith has finished drinking (the formula he calls “white powder medicine”) Smith falls down with severe stomach pains.
Samuel Smith dies suddenly of a mystery violent pain in his stomach days before he is to be ordained as the new leader of the church.
Lucy Mack Smith calls for an autopsy to investigate the death of her son Samuel Smith and suggests Willard Richards was involved in the death of her son.
Physician John M. Bernhisel told William Smith that anti-Mormons had somehow poisoned his brother.
After the autopsy made by Physician John M. Bernhisel proves Samuel Smith was poisoned, the discovery provokes an outcry of all the Smith family to accuse Brigham Young, brother Joseph Young and his cousin Willard Richards of conspiracy to murder the Smith family.
The apostles Sidney Rigdon and James Strang support Lucy Mack Smith´s allegations against Brigham Young and his cousin Willard Richards and exploit the autopsy findings and evidence of poison found as the cause of death of Samuel Smith.
Brigham Young denies the allegations of murder and insists if the members of the church follow him as their new leader, then he will provide them with money and supplies and promises to all the members of the church great wealth, prosperity and gold in the Rocky Mountains and the areas known today as Utah and California. These offers were conditional only on the terms and conditions that the members of the Church ordain Brigham Young as their new leader.
The US. Government wanted pioneers to conquer the West to create more states of America which at the time was owned by Mexico.
In return for the pioneers support to conquer the West the American government promised prosperity for the American dream called Manifest Destiny.
Many members of the church were enticed with Brigham Young´s offers and agreed with him to make him their new leader on the condition that in return he must provide the members of the church with the money and supplies that were given to him from the US. Government.
However, many members of the Church chose not to accept Brigham Young´s offers and accused him of being a traitor to Joseph Smith and for bribing the members of the church with the bounty reward money that Brigham Young received from the government for murdering Joseph Smith.
The mother of Joseph Smith, Lucy Mack Smith, the wife of Joseph Smith, Emma Smith, the brother of Joseph Smith, William Smith and the daughter of Samuel Smith all testify that Brigham Young, his brother Joseph Young and his cousin Willard Richards conspired to murder the Smith family.
Church record accounts state that Brigham Young denied all accusations with the following statement from Brigham Young;
Official Church Speech in 1857 given by Brigham Young.
“William Smith has asserted that I was the cause of the death of his brother Samuel, when brother Woodruff, who is here to day, knows that we were waiting at the depôt in Boston to take passage east at the very time when Joseph and Hyrum were killed. Brother Taylor was nearly killed at the time, and Doctor Richards had his whiskers nearly singed off by the blaze from the guns. In a few weeks after, Samuel Smith died, and I am blamed as the cause of his death.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, July 1857, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p.77
The cousin of Brigham Young, Willard Richards, was the Smith family physician. He studied at the Thomson Infirmary in Boston focusing on medication and herbal preparations. He then settled in Holliston, Massachusetts, where he practiced medicine. From a 21st century perspective, he would probably be considered a pharmacist.
Witness Statements
Willard Richards was accused of giving Hosea Stout the order to deliver poison disguised as medicine prescribed by the family physician Willard Richards to Samuel Smith. The poison was a white powder mixed in water and prepared for Samuel Smith by the family physician Willard Richards.
The brother of Brigham Young is Joseph Young and before he joined the Mormon Church in 1830, he was a preacher for the Methodist Church. He left the Methodist Church and become a Mormon and was called an apostle. He was later accused by the Smith family of plotting with the excommunicated apostle John Whitmer to kidnap her son Joseph Smith and deliver him to the US authorities to be executed for treason.
A brief leadership struggle occurred against the prophet Joseph Smith, which led to the decision of Joseph Smith to excommunicate all those who wanted to take over the church leadership. This conspiracy led to the excommunication of the apostle John Whitmer and the entire Whitmer family as well as the apostle Oliver Cowdery, W. W. Phelps and others. These apostles continued to live in Missouri for a time and became known as the “dissenters”
All these excommunicated apostles of the church disagreed with the teachings of Joseph Smith and wanted to remove him and take over the church. These excommunicated apostles had entered into an agreement with the US. Government to arrest Joseph Smith and deliver him for the crimes of treason. Joseph Smith would be sentenced to death by firing squad execution.
More evidence reveals :
Hurlburt convicted for threatening Joseph Smith’s life, fined $200 and court fees of $125.59.
Joseph Smith´s mother Lucy Mack Smith witness of the case. Doctor Philastus Hurlbut is found guilty of threatening Joseph Jr. and is placed under a peace bond by a court in Chardon, Ohio
In the October 1849 issue of his newspaper, the Melchisedek & Aaronic Herald, William Smith publishes a list of Mormon martyrs, including Samuel H., “who died from the effects of poison administered to him. He died within one month after the martyrdom of his brother.” “Martyrs of the Latter Day Saints,” Melchisedek & Aaronic Herald (Covington, Kentucky) 1, no. 7 (Oct. 1849). Source
The apostle James Strang also confirms the account and allegations in the Strangite paper passes on the same charge the next month under the same title.
Samuel’s daughter also believed her father was murdered. “My father was undoubtedly poisoned,” she wrote. “Uncle Arthur Millikin was poisoned at the same time-the same doctors were treating my father and Uncle Arthur at the same time. Uncle Arthur discontinued the medicine-without letting them know that he was doing so. (Aunt Lucy [Smith Millikin] threw it in the fire). Father continued taking it until the last dose-he spit out and said he was poisoned. But it was too late-he died.”
In a letter to the New York Tribune in 1857, William amplifies on his allegation:
I have good reason for believing that my brother Samuel H. Smith, died of poison at Nauvoo, administered by order of Brigham Young and Willard Richards, only a few weeks subsequent to the unlawful murder of my other brothers, Joseph and Hiram Smith, while incarcerated in Carthage jail. Several other persons, who were presumed to stand between Brigham Young and the accomplishment of his ambitions and wicked designs, mysteriously disappeared from Nauvoo about the same time, and have never been heard from since.
In 1892 William Smith charges that Willard Richards asked Hosea Stout, who was caring for Samuel, to murder him to prevent him from taking office before the Twelve could assemble. William to “Bro. [..] Kelley, June 1, 1892, cited in Origins, 153.
William Clayton wrote in his diary on July 12, 1844, “Joseph has said that if he and Hyrum were taken away Samuel H. Smith would be his successor.” Samuel was Joseph’s oldest living brother after the martyrdom.
Motives for Brigham Young to assassinate Joseph Smith and his brother Samuel Smith and Hyrum Smith:
The first main motive for the suspect Brigham Young to have committed the crimes of murdering the three victims Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith and Samuel Smith is his desire to be the next leader over the Church.
The second motive for the suspect Brigham Young to have committed the crimes of murdering the three victims Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith and Samuel Smith was disagreements in doctrinal issues which would lead to the excommunication of Brigham Young had Joseph Smith survived. This motive is also very credible reason for why Brigham Young would want to murder Joseph Smith.
These motives for Brigham Young being the principal suspect were his disputes with Joseph Smith regarding the African Americans with black skin receiving the priesthood and making an African American with black skin a seventy of the church general authorities. This controversial calling provoked Brigham Young to dispute the merit of giving a calling of seventy to a black colored skin man and claimed that Joseph Smith had made an error baptizing black skin colored people. grievous error for giving a calling of a seventy and giving the priesthood to colored skin people. Joseph Smith accused Brigham Young of racism and said the book of Mormon does not forbid any man to receive the priesthood even if he is black or an American Indian. Joseph Smith quoted 2 Nephi chapter 26 verse 33.
Third motive. Another issue that Brigham Young had against Joseph Smith was the issue surrounding the quest for the West and enlist all Mormon men to fight for the US Government to conquer the West.
Joseph Smith did not agree with supporting any wars with the USA Government. In fact Joseph Smith said the US government wars were unconstitutional and were a violation of human rights. Joseph Smith was not going to support the idea of forming the Nauvoo Legion into a US Battalion and sending the Mormon Battalion to fight against Mexico. Brigham Young agued with Joseph Smith saying the church could benefit from this war because the government would pay the Mormon battalion and also by migrating West the church could build a better future in the West. Joseph Smith told Brigham Young to follow the prophet and don´t go astray. However, Brigham Young was angry and accused Joseph Smith of falling into apostasy.
The evidence which also supports the investigation of Brigham Young being the prime suspect is the issue of the Civil War.
Fourth motive. Joseph Smith wanted the support of the Council of Fifty to campaign as President of America and prevent a Civil war. Joseph Smith offered to use the US national treasury funds to buy all the African slaves and set them free from their slave masters so this would prevent bloodshed.
However, Brigham Young did not agree with Joseph Smith´s anti-war policy and tried to argue strongly against the idea of liberating the African American Slaves. Brigham Young´s argument was the slaves were cursed with the curse of black skin and should remain as slaves. After Brigham Young´s hostility against Joseph Smith again Joseph Smith decided it was time to find new priesthood holders who would support his policy on the liberation of the African American slaves. By this time Brigham Young felt threatened that Joseph Smith would remove him from his position and replace him for someone who would not disagree with Joseph Smith.
Brigham Young made an agreement with Hosea Stout and Joseph Young to use the Danites to protect the apostles from losing their positions in the church leadership.
After close examination of William Clayton´s diary records that confirms the efforts of the cousin of Brigham Young (Willard Richards) to avoid the appointment of a successor before his first cousin Brigham Young arrived. Stout’s diary also describes several occasions when Brigham Young and the apostles seriously discussed having Hosea “rid ourselves” of various church members considered dangerous to the church and the apostles. Stout referred to this as “cut him off-behind the ears-according to the law of God in such cases.” When the Salt Lake “municipal high council” tried Hosea Stout for attempted murder, he protested that “it has been my duty to hunt out the rotten spots in the Kingdom.” He added that he had “tried not to handle a man’s case until it was right.” Evidence does exist to prove that Joseph Smith´s brother Samuel Smith was such a “case” that Stout handled.”
- D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy : Origins of Power, p.152-153
After careful examination of all the testimonies of the witnesses of family and friends of the victims there was sufficient evidence to prove that Joseph Smith was shot in the back at close range by Willard Richards (the cousin of Brigham Young) and that Brigham Young received the bounty reward money from the government of US$10,000 for murdering Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum Smith and to redirect the Mormon males to fight for the US Government.
There is also proven evidence that substantiates the statements that Brigham Young had his cousin send Hosea Stout to poison the brother Samuel Smith to prevent Samuel Smith taking the leadership position that Brigham Young had envied.
Forensic criminal investigation report reveals evidence in the case regarding Joseph Smith´s murderers that the murder victims Joseph and Hyrum Smith were murdered by members of their same faith.
Under close forensic examination of the varying accounts of testimonies and new forensic evidence on the case, investigators concluded in their report the truth surrounding the deaths of the Smith brothers was not a mob that shot the victims but a result of cross fire between the four prisoners in the Carthage jail. The forensic report exposes a plot within the Church hierarchy to murder all the Smith family. The Mormon apostles John Taylor and Willard Richards’ accounts state that Smith was dead when he landed after his fall. One eyewitness, William Daniels, wrote in his 1845 account that Smith was alive when mob members propped his body against a nearby well, assembled a makeshift firing squad, and shot him before fleeing. Daniels’ account also states that one man tried to decapitate Smith for a bounty, but was prevented by divine intervention. There were additional reports that thunder and lightning frightened the mob off. Mob members fled, shouting, “The Mormons are coming,” although there was no such force nearby.
All these statements have been proven to be false and misleading to cover up a murderous conspiracy amongst the alleged victims of murder and this criminal investigation report proves without a shadow of doubt that the LDS official accounts surrounding Smith´s death were fabricated by a plot similar to the history of Judas Iscariot´s conspiracy.
New evidence reveals Joseph Smith receives a gun from Cyrus Wheellock and Smith uses this gun in defending himself against a cross fire between John Taylor and Willard Richards.
Eye witnessed accounts state that seconds before they heard gun fire, there was shouting coming from the jail as John Taylor, Willard Richards , Hyrum Smith were arguing with each other. Willard Richards shot from a concealed weapon in his pocket and the bullet hit Hyrum Smith in the face.
In response Joseph Smith junior then drew his gun at John Taylor and began shooting back in self-defense and as Smith was shooting he attempted to run towards the window to escape from Willard Richards’s gun fire.
Willard Richards got a clear shot on Joseph Smith´s rear shoulder blade as Smith was trying to flee Richard´s bullet which entered Smith´s back at close range. Smith had received various gunshot wounds from Willard Richards weapon before plummeting to his death. Eye witness accounts state Smith struggled to regain strength while being attacked by John Taylor at the jail window. In the criminal investigation report it states the suspect (John Taylor) tries pushing Smith out the window resulting in Taylor´s watch being smashed against the window and in the struggle the watch breaks on the window sill. Smith´s loss of blood had caused the victim to collapse on the smashed window pane and once the victim had become exhausted with no apparent strength left to retaliate anymore, Taylor then gets the advantage over Smith and is seen by witnesses pushing the victim out the window. The suspect John Taylor is accused of aiding the suspect Willard Richard´s in the crimes of murders in the first degree to the victims Joseph and Hyrum Smith.
In 2010 Forensic investigator J. Lynn Lyon, M.D and Mormon historian Glen M. Leonard collected the evidence of the pocket watch of John Taylor from the LDS Church history Museum in Salt Lake City to investigate the allegations of an assassin’s musket ball hitting John Taylor´s pocket watch.
After they had analyzed the evidence surrounding the allegations of a bullet (gun ball) hitting the pocket watch of John Taylor it was concluded that the allegations were false. The investigation found damming proof under close examination that the story of John Taylor in his statement to the law enforcement to be inconsistent with the examination of the evidence.
John Taylor claimed that he was shot and the bullet (gun ball) miraculously was stopped by his pocket watch, however the evidence proves differently that the story of John Taylors pocket watch used as a shield to protect him from a stray bullet hitting his chest is not true because the forensic evidence shows his watch was broken when smashed against a window ledge.
Taylor claimed he was severely wounded with gunshot injuries in the conflict. In his statement he states his life may have been spared when a musket ball directed towards his chest was stopped by a pocket watch which he was carrying at the time.
The Mormon Church apologists are now trying to rewrite this history by saying
“The watch may instead have been damaged when Taylor fell against the windowsill”. This story also is inconsistent with the accounts of John Taylor as he mentioned in his statement that he was shot from the other side of the room away from the window and rolled under the bed.
Other evidence proves also that John Taylor and Willard Richards give false statements to government investigators regarding the crime scene.
There is conflicting reports about to what extent members of the mob were injured during the attack, and whether any of them were killed. Shortly after the events occurred, John Taylor wrote that he heard that two of the attackers died when Joseph Smith shot them with his pistol.
Most accounts seem to agree that at least three mob members were wounded by Joseph Smith’s gunfire, but there is no other evidence that any of them died as a result of the attack.
After close examination of all these accounts there is evidence proving the statements are also false and fabricated of three suspects from the mob wounded by Joseph Smith´s gun fire. In the criminal investigation report questions were raised as to the integrity of the testimonies of the names of the alleged wounded suspects of the mob.
The suspicion was raised into the case of the wounded three suspects when there had been no trace or record of the names of the three accused. The names in question that were alleged to be the three suspected wounded by Joseph Smith´s gun are: John Wills was shot in the arm; William Voras was shot in the shoulder; and William Gallaher was shot in the face. Others claimed that a fourth unnamed man was also wounded. Wills, Voras, Gallaher, were all indicted for the murder of Joseph and Hyrum. There is no evidence that Wills, Voras, Gallaher, died from their wounds or that they actually existed.
Under close examination with the names of the three suspects there seems to be a suspicious coincidence with the name of John Taylor and Willard Richards.
All three alleged suspects have Will in their names for example: John Wills, William Voras and William Gallaher.
The coincidence in the three suspects’ names with the same first four letters Will also found in the name Willard Richards
After extensive investigation of the evidence forensics also concluded that the evidence proves that these three suspects never existed nor were there any such persons with these names found at the crime scene. And the false witnesses who claimed to see the three suspects were also fabricated by John Taylor and Willard Richards. Evidence proves that these two men were covering up their crimes by using lies in their statements. The false statements claim the suspects from the mob wounded by Joseph Smith´s gun fire were seen by Richard´s and Taylor´s invented bogus false witnesses.

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BTH&T
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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

Post by BTH&T »

The post on DS was worth reading, it gave me enough info to verify my inner feelings. I knew in my heart it was not of God.
The above insertion (Brigham Young) is why I dislike the the topic of Church History here at LDSFF.
Slanted, unproven material thrown out there for people to get worked up over. He said, they said, on and on.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ goes one way, it lifts!

Detractors pull others down, for what purpose other than cause others to question.
Does it bring anyone closer to God? Not a bit.
Life is challenging enough without all of the distractions of dissent.

That's why I avoid all of the DS garbage, I know that it isn't leading me to where I need to be.

The old adage of "don't need to try something to already now it's wrong" is very true in this case.

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SJR3t2
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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

Post by SJR3t2 »

I believe Christ prophecied that evil things would be done by the gentiles. FYI BoM Title page says it was translated by a gentile, and D&C says JS was a gentile.

3 Nephi 16:10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

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Rose Garden
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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

Post by Rose Garden »

SJR3t2 wrote: May 8th, 2017, 1:40 pm I grew up LDS but I removed my name. https://seekingyhwh.com/about/ https://seekingyhwh.com/2015/01/18/lds- ... on-letter/

I do believe that Jesus is the Christ and that Joseph Smith saw Jesus Christ face to face and that the Book of Mormon is the word of God.

I also agree that Denver Snuffer is not what he or his followers say he is.

There is much to substantiate the idea that Brigham Young helped plan Joseph Smith murder. Here is something that someone else wrote.
Chronologicy of the evidence leading to the murders of Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith and Samuel Smith.
The U.S. posted bounties of $400 each for the capture of Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum Smith.
These two men were accused to be public enemies and a threat to the national security of America.
The cases on both brothers were for the crimes of treason.
The government had also posted an official Missouri Executive Order 44, often called the “Mormon Extermination Order“
Wanted Dead or Alive Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith.
Joseph Smith Jr.: Arrested 1843 for treason against Missouri, released on writ of habeas corpus by Nauvoo municipal court before extradition.
Missouri governor offered bounty of $400 for kidnapping Joseph Smith Jr. back to Missouri 1843.
Willard Richards is promised a reward for the capture of Joseph Smith.
Willard Richards the cousin of Brigham Young promises to lead Joseph Smith to Carthage jail in Illinois to collect the reward of $400.
Brigham Young goes to seek his and his cousin Willard Richard's rewards from the Government.
Brigham Young is promised asylum and a reward of $10,000 for the deaths of Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith and to lead the Mormons to battle against the Mexicans.
Eye witness accounts accuse the cousin of Brigham Young (Willard Richards) of shooting Joseph Smith twice in the back and then pushing him out the window.
Brigham Young receives a bounty reward of $10,000 from the US. Government as agreed for the capture and execution of Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith for aiding and abetting the offense of the crime of treason against the United States and to lead the Mormon Battalion into war against Mexico.
Willard Richards insists the Mormons don´t ordain Samuel Smith (the brother of Joseph Smith) to be the new leader of the church and tells the congregation to wait for Brigham Young´s return because he has received a money to aid the poor of the church.
The general members of the church are not informed how Brigham Young obtained the money other than the brief explanation that Brigham Young was granted a large sum of money from the US. Government to help aid the members of the church.
Lucy Mack Smith the mother of Joseph Smith suspects foul play and accuses Willard Richards, Brigham Young and the brother of Brigham Young, Joseph Young, of conspiracy to murder her sons.
Willard Richards, the cousin of Brigham Young ,sent Hosea Stout to give a drink to Samuel Smith and shortly after Samuel Smith has finished drinking (the formula he calls “white powder medicine”) Smith falls down with severe stomach pains.
Samuel Smith dies suddenly of a mystery violent pain in his stomach days before he is to be ordained as the new leader of the church.
Lucy Mack Smith calls for an autopsy to investigate the death of her son Samuel Smith and suggests Willard Richards was involved in the death of her son.
Physician John M. Bernhisel told William Smith that anti-Mormons had somehow poisoned his brother.
After the autopsy made by Physician John M. Bernhisel proves Samuel Smith was poisoned, the discovery provokes an outcry of all the Smith family to accuse Brigham Young, brother Joseph Young and his cousin Willard Richards of conspiracy to murder the Smith family.
The apostles Sidney Rigdon and James Strang support Lucy Mack Smith´s allegations against Brigham Young and his cousin Willard Richards and exploit the autopsy findings and evidence of poison found as the cause of death of Samuel Smith.
Brigham Young denies the allegations of murder and insists if the members of the church follow him as their new leader, then he will provide them with money and supplies and promises to all the members of the church great wealth, prosperity and gold in the Rocky Mountains and the areas known today as Utah and California. These offers were conditional only on the terms and conditions that the members of the Church ordain Brigham Young as their new leader.
The US. Government wanted pioneers to conquer the West to create more states of America which at the time was owned by Mexico.
In return for the pioneers support to conquer the West the American government promised prosperity for the American dream called Manifest Destiny.
Many members of the church were enticed with Brigham Young´s offers and agreed with him to make him their new leader on the condition that in return he must provide the members of the church with the money and supplies that were given to him from the US. Government.
However, many members of the Church chose not to accept Brigham Young´s offers and accused him of being a traitor to Joseph Smith and for bribing the members of the church with the bounty reward money that Brigham Young received from the government for murdering Joseph Smith.
The mother of Joseph Smith, Lucy Mack Smith, the wife of Joseph Smith, Emma Smith, the brother of Joseph Smith, William Smith and the daughter of Samuel Smith all testify that Brigham Young, his brother Joseph Young and his cousin Willard Richards conspired to murder the Smith family.
Church record accounts state that Brigham Young denied all accusations with the following statement from Brigham Young;
Official Church Speech in 1857 given by Brigham Young.
“William Smith has asserted that I was the cause of the death of his brother Samuel, when brother Woodruff, who is here to day, knows that we were waiting at the depôt in Boston to take passage east at the very time when Joseph and Hyrum were killed. Brother Taylor was nearly killed at the time, and Doctor Richards had his whiskers nearly singed off by the blaze from the guns. In a few weeks after, Samuel Smith died, and I am blamed as the cause of his death.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, July 1857, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p.77
The cousin of Brigham Young, Willard Richards, was the Smith family physician. He studied at the Thomson Infirmary in Boston focusing on medication and herbal preparations. He then settled in Holliston, Massachusetts, where he practiced medicine. From a 21st century perspective, he would probably be considered a pharmacist.
Witness Statements
Willard Richards was accused of giving Hosea Stout the order to deliver poison disguised as medicine prescribed by the family physician Willard Richards to Samuel Smith. The poison was a white powder mixed in water and prepared for Samuel Smith by the family physician Willard Richards.
The brother of Brigham Young is Joseph Young and before he joined the Mormon Church in 1830, he was a preacher for the Methodist Church. He left the Methodist Church and become a Mormon and was called an apostle. He was later accused by the Smith family of plotting with the excommunicated apostle John Whitmer to kidnap her son Joseph Smith and deliver him to the US authorities to be executed for treason.
A brief leadership struggle occurred against the prophet Joseph Smith, which led to the decision of Joseph Smith to excommunicate all those who wanted to take over the church leadership. This conspiracy led to the excommunication of the apostle John Whitmer and the entire Whitmer family as well as the apostle Oliver Cowdery, W. W. Phelps and others. These apostles continued to live in Missouri for a time and became known as the “dissenters”
All these excommunicated apostles of the church disagreed with the teachings of Joseph Smith and wanted to remove him and take over the church. These excommunicated apostles had entered into an agreement with the US. Government to arrest Joseph Smith and deliver him for the crimes of treason. Joseph Smith would be sentenced to death by firing squad execution.
More evidence reveals :
Hurlburt convicted for threatening Joseph Smith’s life, fined $200 and court fees of $125.59.
Joseph Smith´s mother Lucy Mack Smith witness of the case. Doctor Philastus Hurlbut is found guilty of threatening Joseph Jr. and is placed under a peace bond by a court in Chardon, Ohio
In the October 1849 issue of his newspaper, the Melchisedek & Aaronic Herald, William Smith publishes a list of Mormon martyrs, including Samuel H., “who died from the effects of poison administered to him. He died within one month after the martyrdom of his brother.” “Martyrs of the Latter Day Saints,” Melchisedek & Aaronic Herald (Covington, Kentucky) 1, no. 7 (Oct. 1849). Source
The apostle James Strang also confirms the account and allegations in the Strangite paper passes on the same charge the next month under the same title.
Samuel’s daughter also believed her father was murdered. “My father was undoubtedly poisoned,” she wrote. “Uncle Arthur Millikin was poisoned at the same time-the same doctors were treating my father and Uncle Arthur at the same time. Uncle Arthur discontinued the medicine-without letting them know that he was doing so. (Aunt Lucy [Smith Millikin] threw it in the fire). Father continued taking it until the last dose-he spit out and said he was poisoned. But it was too late-he died.”
In a letter to the New York Tribune in 1857, William amplifies on his allegation:
I have good reason for believing that my brother Samuel H. Smith, died of poison at Nauvoo, administered by order of Brigham Young and Willard Richards, only a few weeks subsequent to the unlawful murder of my other brothers, Joseph and Hiram Smith, while incarcerated in Carthage jail. Several other persons, who were presumed to stand between Brigham Young and the accomplishment of his ambitions and wicked designs, mysteriously disappeared from Nauvoo about the same time, and have never been heard from since.
In 1892 William Smith charges that Willard Richards asked Hosea Stout, who was caring for Samuel, to murder him to prevent him from taking office before the Twelve could assemble. William to “Bro. [..] Kelley, June 1, 1892, cited in Origins, 153.
William Clayton wrote in his diary on July 12, 1844, “Joseph has said that if he and Hyrum were taken away Samuel H. Smith would be his successor.” Samuel was Joseph’s oldest living brother after the martyrdom.
Motives for Brigham Young to assassinate Joseph Smith and his brother Samuel Smith and Hyrum Smith:
The first main motive for the suspect Brigham Young to have committed the crimes of murdering the three victims Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith and Samuel Smith is his desire to be the next leader over the Church.
The second motive for the suspect Brigham Young to have committed the crimes of murdering the three victims Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith and Samuel Smith was disagreements in doctrinal issues which would lead to the excommunication of Brigham Young had Joseph Smith survived. This motive is also very credible reason for why Brigham Young would want to murder Joseph Smith.
These motives for Brigham Young being the principal suspect were his disputes with Joseph Smith regarding the African Americans with black skin receiving the priesthood and making an African American with black skin a seventy of the church general authorities. This controversial calling provoked Brigham Young to dispute the merit of giving a calling of seventy to a black colored skin man and claimed that Joseph Smith had made an error baptizing black skin colored people. grievous error for giving a calling of a seventy and giving the priesthood to colored skin people. Joseph Smith accused Brigham Young of racism and said the book of Mormon does not forbid any man to receive the priesthood even if he is black or an American Indian. Joseph Smith quoted 2 Nephi chapter 26 verse 33.
Third motive. Another issue that Brigham Young had against Joseph Smith was the issue surrounding the quest for the West and enlist all Mormon men to fight for the US Government to conquer the West.
Joseph Smith did not agree with supporting any wars with the USA Government. In fact Joseph Smith said the US government wars were unconstitutional and were a violation of human rights. Joseph Smith was not going to support the idea of forming the Nauvoo Legion into a US Battalion and sending the Mormon Battalion to fight against Mexico. Brigham Young agued with Joseph Smith saying the church could benefit from this war because the government would pay the Mormon battalion and also by migrating West the church could build a better future in the West. Joseph Smith told Brigham Young to follow the prophet and don´t go astray. However, Brigham Young was angry and accused Joseph Smith of falling into apostasy.
The evidence which also supports the investigation of Brigham Young being the prime suspect is the issue of the Civil War.
Fourth motive. Joseph Smith wanted the support of the Council of Fifty to campaign as President of America and prevent a Civil war. Joseph Smith offered to use the US national treasury funds to buy all the African slaves and set them free from their slave masters so this would prevent bloodshed.
However, Brigham Young did not agree with Joseph Smith´s anti-war policy and tried to argue strongly against the idea of liberating the African American Slaves. Brigham Young´s argument was the slaves were cursed with the curse of black skin and should remain as slaves. After Brigham Young´s hostility against Joseph Smith again Joseph Smith decided it was time to find new priesthood holders who would support his policy on the liberation of the African American slaves. By this time Brigham Young felt threatened that Joseph Smith would remove him from his position and replace him for someone who would not disagree with Joseph Smith.
Brigham Young made an agreement with Hosea Stout and Joseph Young to use the Danites to protect the apostles from losing their positions in the church leadership.
After close examination of William Clayton´s diary records that confirms the efforts of the cousin of Brigham Young (Willard Richards) to avoid the appointment of a successor before his first cousin Brigham Young arrived. Stout’s diary also describes several occasions when Brigham Young and the apostles seriously discussed having Hosea “rid ourselves” of various church members considered dangerous to the church and the apostles. Stout referred to this as “cut him off-behind the ears-according to the law of God in such cases.” When the Salt Lake “municipal high council” tried Hosea Stout for attempted murder, he protested that “it has been my duty to hunt out the rotten spots in the Kingdom.” He added that he had “tried not to handle a man’s case until it was right.” Evidence does exist to prove that Joseph Smith´s brother Samuel Smith was such a “case” that Stout handled.”
- D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy : Origins of Power, p.152-153
After careful examination of all the testimonies of the witnesses of family and friends of the victims there was sufficient evidence to prove that Joseph Smith was shot in the back at close range by Willard Richards (the cousin of Brigham Young) and that Brigham Young received the bounty reward money from the government of US$10,000 for murdering Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum Smith and to redirect the Mormon males to fight for the US Government.
There is also proven evidence that substantiates the statements that Brigham Young had his cousin send Hosea Stout to poison the brother Samuel Smith to prevent Samuel Smith taking the leadership position that Brigham Young had envied.
Forensic criminal investigation report reveals evidence in the case regarding Joseph Smith´s murderers that the murder victims Joseph and Hyrum Smith were murdered by members of their same faith.
Under close forensic examination of the varying accounts of testimonies and new forensic evidence on the case, investigators concluded in their report the truth surrounding the deaths of the Smith brothers was not a mob that shot the victims but a result of cross fire between the four prisoners in the Carthage jail. The forensic report exposes a plot within the Church hierarchy to murder all the Smith family. The Mormon apostles John Taylor and Willard Richards’ accounts state that Smith was dead when he landed after his fall. One eyewitness, William Daniels, wrote in his 1845 account that Smith was alive when mob members propped his body against a nearby well, assembled a makeshift firing squad, and shot him before fleeing. Daniels’ account also states that one man tried to decapitate Smith for a bounty, but was prevented by divine intervention. There were additional reports that thunder and lightning frightened the mob off. Mob members fled, shouting, “The Mormons are coming,” although there was no such force nearby.
All these statements have been proven to be false and misleading to cover up a murderous conspiracy amongst the alleged victims of murder and this criminal investigation report proves without a shadow of doubt that the LDS official accounts surrounding Smith´s death were fabricated by a plot similar to the history of Judas Iscariot´s conspiracy.
New evidence reveals Joseph Smith receives a gun from Cyrus Wheellock and Smith uses this gun in defending himself against a cross fire between John Taylor and Willard Richards.
Eye witnessed accounts state that seconds before they heard gun fire, there was shouting coming from the jail as John Taylor, Willard Richards , Hyrum Smith were arguing with each other. Willard Richards shot from a concealed weapon in his pocket and the bullet hit Hyrum Smith in the face.
In response Joseph Smith junior then drew his gun at John Taylor and began shooting back in self-defense and as Smith was shooting he attempted to run towards the window to escape from Willard Richards’s gun fire.
Willard Richards got a clear shot on Joseph Smith´s rear shoulder blade as Smith was trying to flee Richard´s bullet which entered Smith´s back at close range. Smith had received various gunshot wounds from Willard Richards weapon before plummeting to his death. Eye witness accounts state Smith struggled to regain strength while being attacked by John Taylor at the jail window. In the criminal investigation report it states the suspect (John Taylor) tries pushing Smith out the window resulting in Taylor´s watch being smashed against the window and in the struggle the watch breaks on the window sill. Smith´s loss of blood had caused the victim to collapse on the smashed window pane and once the victim had become exhausted with no apparent strength left to retaliate anymore, Taylor then gets the advantage over Smith and is seen by witnesses pushing the victim out the window. The suspect John Taylor is accused of aiding the suspect Willard Richard´s in the crimes of murders in the first degree to the victims Joseph and Hyrum Smith.
In 2010 Forensic investigator J. Lynn Lyon, M.D and Mormon historian Glen M. Leonard collected the evidence of the pocket watch of John Taylor from the LDS Church history Museum in Salt Lake City to investigate the allegations of an assassin’s musket ball hitting John Taylor´s pocket watch.
After they had analyzed the evidence surrounding the allegations of a bullet (gun ball) hitting the pocket watch of John Taylor it was concluded that the allegations were false. The investigation found damming proof under close examination that the story of John Taylor in his statement to the law enforcement to be inconsistent with the examination of the evidence.
John Taylor claimed that he was shot and the bullet (gun ball) miraculously was stopped by his pocket watch, however the evidence proves differently that the story of John Taylors pocket watch used as a shield to protect him from a stray bullet hitting his chest is not true because the forensic evidence shows his watch was broken when smashed against a window ledge.
Taylor claimed he was severely wounded with gunshot injuries in the conflict. In his statement he states his life may have been spared when a musket ball directed towards his chest was stopped by a pocket watch which he was carrying at the time.
The Mormon Church apologists are now trying to rewrite this history by saying
“The watch may instead have been damaged when Taylor fell against the windowsill”. This story also is inconsistent with the accounts of John Taylor as he mentioned in his statement that he was shot from the other side of the room away from the window and rolled under the bed.
Other evidence proves also that John Taylor and Willard Richards give false statements to government investigators regarding the crime scene.
There is conflicting reports about to what extent members of the mob were injured during the attack, and whether any of them were killed. Shortly after the events occurred, John Taylor wrote that he heard that two of the attackers died when Joseph Smith shot them with his pistol.
Most accounts seem to agree that at least three mob members were wounded by Joseph Smith’s gunfire, but there is no other evidence that any of them died as a result of the attack.
After close examination of all these accounts there is evidence proving the statements are also false and fabricated of three suspects from the mob wounded by Joseph Smith´s gun fire. In the criminal investigation report questions were raised as to the integrity of the testimonies of the names of the alleged wounded suspects of the mob.
The suspicion was raised into the case of the wounded three suspects when there had been no trace or record of the names of the three accused. The names in question that were alleged to be the three suspected wounded by Joseph Smith´s gun are: John Wills was shot in the arm; William Voras was shot in the shoulder; and William Gallaher was shot in the face. Others claimed that a fourth unnamed man was also wounded. Wills, Voras, Gallaher, were all indicted for the murder of Joseph and Hyrum. There is no evidence that Wills, Voras, Gallaher, died from their wounds or that they actually existed.
Under close examination with the names of the three suspects there seems to be a suspicious coincidence with the name of John Taylor and Willard Richards.
All three alleged suspects have Will in their names for example: John Wills, William Voras and William Gallaher.
The coincidence in the three suspects’ names with the same first four letters Will also found in the name Willard Richards
After extensive investigation of the evidence forensics also concluded that the evidence proves that these three suspects never existed nor were there any such persons with these names found at the crime scene. And the false witnesses who claimed to see the three suspects were also fabricated by John Taylor and Willard Richards. Evidence proves that these two men were covering up their crimes by using lies in their statements. The false statements claim the suspects from the mob wounded by Joseph Smith´s gun fire were seen by Richard´s and Taylor´s invented bogus false witnesses.
Whoa, dude. Show me some evidence. Even just a little.

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Rose Garden
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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

Post by Rose Garden »

BTH&T wrote: May 8th, 2017, 2:37 pm The post on DS was worth reading, it gave me enough info to verify my inner feelings. I knew in my heart it was not of God.
The above insertion (Brigham Young) is why I dislike the the topic of Church History here at LDSFF.
Slanted, unproven material thrown out there for people to get worked up over. He said, they said, on and on.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ goes one way, it lifts!

Detractors pull others down, for what purpose other than cause others to question.
Does it bring anyone closer to God? Not a bit.
Life is challenging enough without all of the distractions of dissent.

That's why I avoid all of the DS garbage, I know that it isn't leading me to where I need to be.

The old adage of "don't need to try something to already now it's wrong" is very true in this case.
He mischaracterized many of the aspects of the DS movement. Why reject his information on Brigham Young but accept his information on DS? Aren't both a form of detracting, pulling others down instead of edifying?

I agree with the principles you posted here. The gospel lifts and and dissention drags people down. I would suggest you be careful about application, however. You don't get to pick which gossip to accept and still be right. No matter what people are saying, they should be required to back up what they are saying.

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BruceRGilbert
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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

Post by BruceRGilbert »

Mr. Snuffer was a member in good standing when he authored his first book, "Second Comforter." Because of that reason and the desire for many to have their "calling and election" made sure in this life, he gained "audience." There are many things contained, therein, which are helpful with respect to that quest - of which will be attested to by the Spirit; however, with the advent of time and "popularity" in reception, things changed. Being the intelligent man, a lawyer, that he is, Mr. Snuffer erred in judgment - as many, heretofore have, in "evil speaking against the Lord's anointed," by virtue of his book, "Passing the Heavenly Gift." At this juncture, He was given an "Abrahamic Test," as it were in the ultimatum to remove this work from the book shelves in exchange for his membership in the Lord's Kingdom. Mr. Snuffer could not comply - he failed the test and has fallen from the status that he once held with the Lord.

It is a tragic misfortune for people to get wrapped-up in historical events that have been received by hear-say and "second-hand" accounts. The short and simple of it is that you and I were not present when these "historical" events transpired. We did not "personally" conduct an interview with the people cited or involved. To selectively give credibility to one version over another is the equivalent of putting your trust in the arm of flesh. All we will ever know in this life is our own consciousness . . . the rest is a matter of "faith." The real value of history is in knowing and not repeating the mistakes of the past.

Beware of those who would "dredge up" the past for re-interpretation. Such is the attempt of those who attempt to "re-write" history. We should not base our testimony on historical events, but the "ever-present" Spirit of now.

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BTH&T
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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

Post by BTH&T »

Meili wrote: May 8th, 2017, 3:25 pm
He mischaracterized many of the aspects of the DS movement. Why reject his information on Brigham Young but accept his information on DS? Aren't both a form of detracting, pulling others down instead of edifying?

I agree with the principles you posted here. The gospel lifts and and dissension drags people down. I would suggest you be careful about application, however. You don't get to pick which gossip to accept and still be right. No matter what people are saying, they should be required to back up what they are saying.
You are correct, I do not believe either the DS movement as a truth, nor anti LDS history.
I have very little background to go on in terms of the DS movement, as for the blog link it seemed to give a brief synopsis that I found gave me a bit of understanding on things I've read here at LDSFF. I do not validate any of this as factual, just seemed to give me a better picture for some of what I've noticed/read. I'm glad you called me on it so I could clarify what I meant.

I can only go on what I've read and as for any of the details, I am not wanting any more than I have.

I have stated many times on this forum that when one receives a true witness about something, thats the end of needing to ask on that principle again.
I Know what I have been given, so there is no need to search the same thing over and over.
In this case, I have answers given that the Book of Mormon is true, The Gospel has been restored and that the Lords Authority and Power is here on earth. The Lords Church is here. No need to keep looking for what I already have. I still have many flaws to overcome and work to do, but it is great to know the direction I am traveling is the correct one. Sinner that I am.

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Rose Garden
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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

Post by Rose Garden »

BTH&T wrote: May 8th, 2017, 4:52 pm
Meili wrote: May 8th, 2017, 3:25 pm
He mischaracterized many of the aspects of the DS movement. Why reject his information on Brigham Young but accept his information on DS? Aren't both a form of detracting, pulling others down instead of edifying?

I agree with the principles you posted here. The gospel lifts and and dissension drags people down. I would suggest you be careful about application, however. You don't get to pick which gossip to accept and still be right. No matter what people are saying, they should be required to back up what they are saying.
You are correct, I do not believe either the DS movement as a truth, nor anti LDS history.
I have very little background to go on in terms of the DS movement, as for the blog link it seemed to give a brief synopsis that I found gave me a bit of understanding on things I've read here at LDSFF. I do not validate any of this as factual, just seemed to give me a better picture for some of what I've noticed/read. I'm glad you called me on it so I could clarify what I meant.

I can only go on what I've read and as for any of the details, I am not wanting any more than I have.

I have stated many times on this forum that when one receives a true witness about something, thats the end of needing to ask on that principle again.
I Know what I have been given, so there is no need to search the same thing over and over.
In this case, I have answers given that the Book of Mormon is true, The Gospel has been restored and that the Lords Authority and Power is here on earth. The Lords Church is here. No need to keep looking for what I already have. I still have many flaws to overcome and work to do, but it is great to know the direction I am traveling is the correct one. Sinner that I am.
Thanks for the clarification. I think your decision is wise. If you were to continue looking for more, you would be rejecting what the Lord had already given you. However, I would add (and you might also agree) that though you have no need to go looking into other organizations to find the truth, there is much to explore within the things that the Spirit has already validated to you. You don't need to keep asking if the Book of Mormon is true but you can keep asking about it, about understanding its content, and continue receiving answers. In fact, I would imagine that if you did not do so, you would not be fully taking advantage of the witness the Spirit already provided you. Would you agree?

simpleton
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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

Post by simpleton »

SJR3t2 wrote: May 8th, 2017, 1:40 pm I grew up LDS but I removed my name. https://seekingyhwh.com/about/ https://seekingyhwh.com/2015/01/18/lds- ... on-letter/

I do believe that Jesus is the Christ and that Joseph Smith saw Jesus Christ face to face and that the Book of Mormon is the word of God.

I also agree that Denver Snuffer is not what he or his followers say he is.

There is much to substantiate the idea that Brigham Young helped plan Joseph Smith murder. Here is something that someone else wrote.
Chronologicy of the evidence leading to the murders of Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith and Samuel Smith.
The U.S. posted bounties of $400 each for the capture of Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum Smith.
These two men were accused to be public enemies and a threat to the national security of America.
The cases on both brothers were for the crimes of treason.
The government had also posted an official Missouri Executive Order 44, often called the “Mormon Extermination Order“
Wanted Dead or Alive Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith.
Joseph Smith Jr.: Arrested 1843 for treason against Missouri, released on writ of habeas corpus by Nauvoo municipal court before extradition.
Missouri governor offered bounty of $400 for kidnapping Joseph Smith Jr. back to Missouri 1843.
Willard Richards is promised a reward for the capture of Joseph Smith.
Willard Richards the cousin of Brigham Young promises to lead Joseph Smith to Carthage jail in Illinois to collect the reward of $400.
Brigham Young goes to seek his and his cousin Willard Richard's rewards from the Government.
Brigham Young is promised asylum and a reward of $10,000 for the deaths of Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith and to lead the Mormons to battle against the Mexicans.
Eye witness accounts accuse the cousin of Brigham Young (Willard Richards) of shooting Joseph Smith twice in the back and then pushing him out the window.
Brigham Young receives a bounty reward of $10,000 from the US. Government as agreed for the capture and execution of Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith for aiding and abetting the offense of the crime of treason against the United States and to lead the Mormon Battalion into war against Mexico.
Willard Richards insists the Mormons don´t ordain Samuel Smith (the brother of Joseph Smith) to be the new leader of the church and tells the congregation to wait for Brigham Young´s return because he has received a money to aid the poor of the church.
The general members of the church are not informed how Brigham Young obtained the money other than the brief explanation that Brigham Young was granted a large sum of money from the US. Government to help aid the members of the church.
Lucy Mack Smith the mother of Joseph Smith suspects foul play and accuses Willard Richards, Brigham Young and the brother of Brigham Young, Joseph Young, of conspiracy to murder her sons.
Willard Richards, the cousin of Brigham Young ,sent Hosea Stout to give a drink to Samuel Smith and shortly after Samuel Smith has finished drinking (the formula he calls “white powder medicine”) Smith falls down with severe stomach pains.
Samuel Smith dies suddenly of a mystery violent pain in his stomach days before he is to be ordained as the new leader of the church.
Lucy Mack Smith calls for an autopsy to investigate the death of her son Samuel Smith and suggests Willard Richards was involved in the death of her son.
Physician John M. Bernhisel told William Smith that anti-Mormons had somehow poisoned his brother.
After the autopsy made by Physician John M. Bernhisel proves Samuel Smith was poisoned, the discovery provokes an outcry of all the Smith family to accuse Brigham Young, brother Joseph Young and his cousin Willard Richards of conspiracy to murder the Smith family.
The apostles Sidney Rigdon and James Strang support Lucy Mack Smith´s allegations against Brigham Young and his cousin Willard Richards and exploit the autopsy findings and evidence of poison found as the cause of death of Samuel Smith.
Brigham Young denies the allegations of murder and insists if the members of the church follow him as their new leader, then he will provide them with money and supplies and promises to all the members of the church great wealth, prosperity and gold in the Rocky Mountains and the areas known today as Utah and California. These offers were conditional only on the terms and conditions that the members of the Church ordain Brigham Young as their new leader.
The US. Government wanted pioneers to conquer the West to create more states of America which at the time was owned by Mexico.
In return for the pioneers support to conquer the West the American government promised prosperity for the American dream called Manifest Destiny.
Many members of the church were enticed with Brigham Young´s offers and agreed with him to make him their new leader on the condition that in return he must provide the members of the church with the money and supplies that were given to him from the US. Government.
However, many members of the Church chose not to accept Brigham Young´s offers and accused him of being a traitor to Joseph Smith and for bribing the members of the church with the bounty reward money that Brigham Young received from the government for murdering Joseph Smith.
The mother of Joseph Smith, Lucy Mack Smith, the wife of Joseph Smith, Emma Smith, the brother of Joseph Smith, William Smith and the daughter of Samuel Smith all testify that Brigham Young, his brother Joseph Young and his cousin Willard Richards conspired to murder the Smith family.
Church record accounts state that Brigham Young denied all accusations with the following statement from Brigham Young;
Official Church Speech in 1857 given by Brigham Young.
“William Smith has asserted that I was the cause of the death of his brother Samuel, when brother Woodruff, who is here to day, knows that we were waiting at the depôt in Boston to take passage east at the very time when Joseph and Hyrum were killed. Brother Taylor was nearly killed at the time, and Doctor Richards had his whiskers nearly singed off by the blaze from the guns. In a few weeks after, Samuel Smith died, and I am blamed as the cause of his death.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, July 1857, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p.77
The cousin of Brigham Young, Willard Richards, was the Smith family physician. He studied at the Thomson Infirmary in Boston focusing on medication and herbal preparations. He then settled in Holliston, Massachusetts, where he practiced medicine. From a 21st century perspective, he would probably be considered a pharmacist.
Witness Statements
Willard Richards was accused of giving Hosea Stout the order to deliver poison disguised as medicine prescribed by the family physician Willard Richards to Samuel Smith. The poison was a white powder mixed in water and prepared for Samuel Smith by the family physician Willard Richards.
The brother of Brigham Young is Joseph Young and before he joined the Mormon Church in 1830, he was a preacher for the Methodist Church. He left the Methodist Church and become a Mormon and was called an apostle. He was later accused by the Smith family of plotting with the excommunicated apostle John Whitmer to kidnap her son Joseph Smith and deliver him to the US authorities to be executed for treason.
A brief leadership struggle occurred against the prophet Joseph Smith, which led to the decision of Joseph Smith to excommunicate all those who wanted to take over the church leadership. This conspiracy led to the excommunication of the apostle John Whitmer and the entire Whitmer family as well as the apostle Oliver Cowdery, W. W. Phelps and others. These apostles continued to live in Missouri for a time and became known as the “dissenters”
All these excommunicated apostles of the church disagreed with the teachings of Joseph Smith and wanted to remove him and take over the church. These excommunicated apostles had entered into an agreement with the US. Government to arrest Joseph Smith and deliver him for the crimes of treason. Joseph Smith would be sentenced to death by firing squad execution.
More evidence reveals :
Hurlburt convicted for threatening Joseph Smith’s life, fined $200 and court fees of $125.59.
Joseph Smith´s mother Lucy Mack Smith witness of the case. Doctor Philastus Hurlbut is found guilty of threatening Joseph Jr. and is placed under a peace bond by a court in Chardon, Ohio
In the October 1849 issue of his newspaper, the Melchisedek & Aaronic Herald, William Smith publishes a list of Mormon martyrs, including Samuel H., “who died from the effects of poison administered to him. He died within one month after the martyrdom of his brother.” “Martyrs of the Latter Day Saints,” Melchisedek & Aaronic Herald (Covington, Kentucky) 1, no. 7 (Oct. 1849). Source
The apostle James Strang also confirms the account and allegations in the Strangite paper passes on the same charge the next month under the same title.
Samuel’s daughter also believed her father was murdered. “My father was undoubtedly poisoned,” she wrote. “Uncle Arthur Millikin was poisoned at the same time-the same doctors were treating my father and Uncle Arthur at the same time. Uncle Arthur discontinued the medicine-without letting them know that he was doing so. (Aunt Lucy [Smith Millikin] threw it in the fire). Father continued taking it until the last dose-he spit out and said he was poisoned. But it was too late-he died.”
In a letter to the New York Tribune in 1857, William amplifies on his allegation:
I have good reason for believing that my brother Samuel H. Smith, died of poison at Nauvoo, administered by order of Brigham Young and Willard Richards, only a few weeks subsequent to the unlawful murder of my other brothers, Joseph and Hiram Smith, while incarcerated in Carthage jail. Several other persons, who were presumed to stand between Brigham Young and the accomplishment of his ambitions and wicked designs, mysteriously disappeared from Nauvoo about the same time, and have never been heard from since.
In 1892 William Smith charges that Willard Richards asked Hosea Stout, who was caring for Samuel, to murder him to prevent him from taking office before the Twelve could assemble. William to “Bro. [..] Kelley, June 1, 1892, cited in Origins, 153.
William Clayton wrote in his diary on July 12, 1844, “Joseph has said that if he and Hyrum were taken away Samuel H. Smith would be his successor.” Samuel was Joseph’s oldest living brother after the martyrdom.
Motives for Brigham Young to assassinate Joseph Smith and his brother Samuel Smith and Hyrum Smith:
The first main motive for the suspect Brigham Young to have committed the crimes of murdering the three victims Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith and Samuel Smith is his desire to be the next leader over the Church.
The second motive for the suspect Brigham Young to have committed the crimes of murdering the three victims Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith and Samuel Smith was disagreements in doctrinal issues which would lead to the excommunication of Brigham Young had Joseph Smith survived. This motive is also very credible reason for why Brigham Young would want to murder Joseph Smith.
These motives for Brigham Young being the principal suspect were his disputes with Joseph Smith regarding the African Americans with black skin receiving the priesthood and making an African American with black skin a seventy of the church general authorities. This controversial calling provoked Brigham Young to dispute the merit of giving a calling of seventy to a black colored skin man and claimed that Joseph Smith had made an error baptizing black skin colored people. grievous error for giving a calling of a seventy and giving the priesthood to colored skin people. Joseph Smith accused Brigham Young of racism and said the book of Mormon does not forbid any man to receive the priesthood even if he is black or an American Indian. Joseph Smith quoted 2 Nephi chapter 26 verse 33.
Third motive. Another issue that Brigham Young had against Joseph Smith was the issue surrounding the quest for the West and enlist all Mormon men to fight for the US Government to conquer the West.
Joseph Smith did not agree with supporting any wars with the USA Government. In fact Joseph Smith said the US government wars were unconstitutional and were a violation of human rights. Joseph Smith was not going to support the idea of forming the Nauvoo Legion into a US Battalion and sending the Mormon Battalion to fight against Mexico. Brigham Young agued with Joseph Smith saying the church could benefit from this war because the government would pay the Mormon battalion and also by migrating West the church could build a better future in the West. Joseph Smith told Brigham Young to follow the prophet and don´t go astray. However, Brigham Young was angry and accused Joseph Smith of falling into apostasy.
The evidence which also supports the investigation of Brigham Young being the prime suspect is the issue of the Civil War.
Fourth motive. Joseph Smith wanted the support of the Council of Fifty to campaign as President of America and prevent a Civil war. Joseph Smith offered to use the US national treasury funds to buy all the African slaves and set them free from their slave masters so this would prevent bloodshed.
However, Brigham Young did not agree with Joseph Smith´s anti-war policy and tried to argue strongly against the idea of liberating the African American Slaves. Brigham Young´s argument was the slaves were cursed with the curse of black skin and should remain as slaves. After Brigham Young´s hostility against Joseph Smith again Joseph Smith decided it was time to find new priesthood holders who would support his policy on the liberation of the African American slaves. By this time Brigham Young felt threatened that Joseph Smith would remove him from his position and replace him for someone who would not disagree with Joseph Smith.
Brigham Young made an agreement with Hosea Stout and Joseph Young to use the Danites to protect the apostles from losing their positions in the church leadership.
After close examination of William Clayton´s diary records that confirms the efforts of the cousin of Brigham Young (Willard Richards) to avoid the appointment of a successor before his first cousin Brigham Young arrived. Stout’s diary also describes several occasions when Brigham Young and the apostles seriously discussed having Hosea “rid ourselves” of various church members considered dangerous to the church and the apostles. Stout referred to this as “cut him off-behind the ears-according to the law of God in such cases.” When the Salt Lake “municipal high council” tried Hosea Stout for attempted murder, he protested that “it has been my duty to hunt out the rotten spots in the Kingdom.” He added that he had “tried not to handle a man’s case until it was right.” Evidence does exist to prove that Joseph Smith´s brother Samuel Smith was such a “case” that Stout handled.”
- D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy : Origins of Power, p.152-153
After careful examination of all the testimonies of the witnesses of family and friends of the victims there was sufficient evidence to prove that Joseph Smith was shot in the back at close range by Willard Richards (the cousin of Brigham Young) and that Brigham Young received the bounty reward money from the government of US$10,000 for murdering Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum Smith and to redirect the Mormon males to fight for the US Government.
There is also proven evidence that substantiates the statements that Brigham Young had his cousin send Hosea Stout to poison the brother Samuel Smith to prevent Samuel Smith taking the leadership position that Brigham Young had envied.
Forensic criminal investigation report reveals evidence in the case regarding Joseph Smith´s murderers that the murder victims Joseph and Hyrum Smith were murdered by members of their same faith.
Under close forensic examination of the varying accounts of testimonies and new forensic evidence on the case, investigators concluded in their report the truth surrounding the deaths of the Smith brothers was not a mob that shot the victims but a result of cross fire between the four prisoners in the Carthage jail. The forensic report exposes a plot within the Church hierarchy to murder all the Smith family. The Mormon apostles John Taylor and Willard Richards’ accounts state that Smith was dead when he landed after his fall. One eyewitness, William Daniels, wrote in his 1845 account that Smith was alive when mob members propped his body against a nearby well, assembled a makeshift firing squad, and shot him before fleeing. Daniels’ account also states that one man tried to decapitate Smith for a bounty, but was prevented by divine intervention. There were additional reports that thunder and lightning frightened the mob off. Mob members fled, shouting, “The Mormons are coming,” although there was no such force nearby.
All these statements have been proven to be false and misleading to cover up a murderous conspiracy amongst the alleged victims of murder and this criminal investigation report proves without a shadow of doubt that the LDS official accounts surrounding Smith´s death were fabricated by a plot similar to the history of Judas Iscariot´s conspiracy.
New evidence reveals Joseph Smith receives a gun from Cyrus Wheellock and Smith uses this gun in defending himself against a cross fire between John Taylor and Willard Richards.
Eye witnessed accounts state that seconds before they heard gun fire, there was shouting coming from the jail as John Taylor, Willard Richards , Hyrum Smith were arguing with each other. Willard Richards shot from a concealed weapon in his pocket and the bullet hit Hyrum Smith in the face.
In response Joseph Smith junior then drew his gun at John Taylor and began shooting back in self-defense and as Smith was shooting he attempted to run towards the window to escape from Willard Richards’s gun fire.
Willard Richards got a clear shot on Joseph Smith´s rear shoulder blade as Smith was trying to flee Richard´s bullet which entered Smith´s back at close range. Smith had received various gunshot wounds from Willard Richards weapon before plummeting to his death. Eye witness accounts state Smith struggled to regain strength while being attacked by John Taylor at the jail window. In the criminal investigation report it states the suspect (John Taylor) tries pushing Smith out the window resulting in Taylor´s watch being smashed against the window and in the struggle the watch breaks on the window sill. Smith´s loss of blood had caused the victim to collapse on the smashed window pane and once the victim had become exhausted with no apparent strength left to retaliate anymore, Taylor then gets the advantage over Smith and is seen by witnesses pushing the victim out the window. The suspect John Taylor is accused of aiding the suspect Willard Richard´s in the crimes of murders in the first degree to the victims Joseph and Hyrum Smith.
In 2010 Forensic investigator J. Lynn Lyon, M.D and Mormon historian Glen M. Leonard collected the evidence of the pocket watch of John Taylor from the LDS Church history Museum in Salt Lake City to investigate the allegations of an assassin’s musket ball hitting John Taylor´s pocket watch.
After they had analyzed the evidence surrounding the allegations of a bullet (gun ball) hitting the pocket watch of John Taylor it was concluded that the allegations were false. The investigation found damming proof under close examination that the story of John Taylor in his statement to the law enforcement to be inconsistent with the examination of the evidence.
John Taylor claimed that he was shot and the bullet (gun ball) miraculously was stopped by his pocket watch, however the evidence proves differently that the story of John Taylors pocket watch used as a shield to protect him from a stray bullet hitting his chest is not true because the forensic evidence shows his watch was broken when smashed against a window ledge.
Taylor claimed he was severely wounded with gunshot injuries in the conflict. In his statement he states his life may have been spared when a musket ball directed towards his chest was stopped by a pocket watch which he was carrying at the time.
The Mormon Church apologists are now trying to rewrite this history by saying
“The watch may instead have been damaged when Taylor fell against the windowsill”. This story also is inconsistent with the accounts of John Taylor as he mentioned in his statement that he was shot from the other side of the room away from the window and rolled under the bed.
Other evidence proves also that John Taylor and Willard Richards give false statements to government investigators regarding the crime scene.
There is conflicting reports about to what extent members of the mob were injured during the attack, and whether any of them were killed. Shortly after the events occurred, John Taylor wrote that he heard that two of the attackers died when Joseph Smith shot them with his pistol.
Most accounts seem to agree that at least three mob members were wounded by Joseph Smith’s gunfire, but there is no other evidence that any of them died as a result of the attack.
After close examination of all these accounts there is evidence proving the statements are also false and fabricated of three suspects from the mob wounded by Joseph Smith´s gun fire. In the criminal investigation report questions were raised as to the integrity of the testimonies of the names of the alleged wounded suspects of the mob.
The suspicion was raised into the case of the wounded three suspects when there had been no trace or record of the names of the three accused. The names in question that were alleged to be the three suspected wounded by Joseph Smith´s gun are: John Wills was shot in the arm; William Voras was shot in the shoulder; and William Gallaher was shot in the face. Others claimed that a fourth unnamed man was also wounded. Wills, Voras, Gallaher, were all indicted for the murder of Joseph and Hyrum. There is no evidence that Wills, Voras, Gallaher, died from their wounds or that they actually existed.
Under close examination with the names of the three suspects there seems to be a suspicious coincidence with the name of John Taylor and Willard Richards.
All three alleged suspects have Will in their names for example: John Wills, William Voras and William Gallaher.
The coincidence in the three suspects’ names with the same first four letters Will also found in the name Willard Richards
After extensive investigation of the evidence forensics also concluded that the evidence proves that these three suspects never existed nor were there any such persons with these names found at the crime scene. And the false witnesses who claimed to see the three suspects were also fabricated by John Taylor and Willard Richards. Evidence proves that these two men were covering up their crimes by using lies in their statements. The false statements claim the suspects from the mob wounded by Joseph Smith´s gun fire were seen by Richard´s and Taylor´s invented bogus false witnesses.
Well that fairy tale above sure tells a complete diametrically opposed story to the ones I have studied all my life about Brigham Young, John Taylor and Willard Richard etc. I have read and studied their lives, their discourses, their desires, and their actions.
And as far as I am concerned the above is just the rantings of some one with an agenda of perverting and twisting history to fit their hatred of Brigham Young and others. But really, it mattereth not, rant on, rave on, it will not change anything . I know what they stood for and what they taught and everyone of their detractors combined don't amount to nothing at all compared to the faithful performance of those inspired men of God.

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Sarah
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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

Post by Sarah »

I'm sure there are many many pieces of evidence that could be pulled up to disprove this account. I opened my book "History of Joseph Smith By His Mother" which is a great book BTW, and also Bushman's book, and found a few facts that don't jive.
Willard Richards the cousin of Brigham Young promises to lead Joseph Smith to Carthage jail in Illinois to collect the reward of $400
I don't see how this could be possible knowing what Richards was doing right before Carthage.

Joseph, knowing that the mobs only wanted he and Hyrum, instructed the saints to go about their business while Joseph, Hyrum, Willard Richards, and P. Rockwell set out on their way to "the west" to escape the mobs. Stephen Markham, a close friend of the Prophet Joseph Smith, was present in the all-night council and heard Joseph Smith say that “it was the voice of the Spirit for him to go to the West among the Natives and take Hyrum and several others along with him and look out a place for the Church.”

But immediately word started coming, asking that they return, for there was a tremendous amount of fear among the saints that the mobs were going to be upon them. ( Emma was also one who pleaded Joseph return.) That's when Joseph replied, "If my life is of no value to my friends, it is of none to myself." Joseph and Hyrum decided to return. I don't see any evidence of Richards persuading Joseph to return. He was on his way out with Joseph.
Lucy Mack Smith the mother of Joseph Smith suspects foul play and accuses Willard Richards, Brigham Young and the brother of Brigham Young, Joseph Young, of conspiracy to murder her sons.
Proof?
Willard Richards, the cousin of Brigham Young ,sent Hosea Stout to give a drink to Samuel Smith and shortly after Samuel Smith has finished drinking (the formula he calls “white powder medicine”) Smith falls down with severe stomach pains.
Samuel Smith dies suddenly of a mystery violent pain in his stomach days before he is to be ordained as the new leader of the church.
Lucy Mack Smith calls for an autopsy to investigate the death of her son Samuel Smith and suggests Willard Richards was involved in the death of her son.
This doesn't jive at all with what Lucy says about Samuel.

This is what we read from Lucy:
I left the scene (seeing Joseph and Hyrum dead) and returned to my room, to ponder upon the calamities of my family. Soon after this, Samuel said, "Mother, I have had a dreadful distress in my side ever since I was chased by the mob, and I think I have received some injury which is going to make me sick." And indeed he was then not able to sit up, as he had been broken of his rest, besides being dreadfully fatigued in the chase, which, joined to the shock occasioned by the death of his brothers, brought on a disease that never was removed.....In a short time Samuel, who continued unwell was confined to his bed, and lingering until the thirtieth of July, his spirit forsook its earthy tabernacle and went to join his brothers....
On to the next claim:
In the October 1849 issue of his newspaper, the Melchisedek & Aaronic Herald, William Smith publishes a list of Mormon martyrs, including Samuel H., “who died from the effects of poison administered to him. He died within one month after the martyrdom of his brother.” “Martyrs of the Latter Day Saints,” Melchisedek & Aaronic Herald (Covington, Kentucky) 1, no. 7 (Oct. 1849).
While it appears that William and Strang both claimed this, why did William have a sudden change of heart in 1860 and write Brigham Young saying that he wanted to join the saints in the Rockies, and then after that be rebaptized? You'd think that if he truly believed Brigham Young was the one who killed his brother he would want nothing to do with him or the Church he led.

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SJR3t2
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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

Post by SJR3t2 »

Meili wrote: May 8th, 2017, 3:25 pm He mischaracterized many of the aspects of the DS movement.
What do you feel I have mischaracterized?

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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

Post by SJR3t2 »

Meili wrote: May 8th, 2017, 3:15 pm Whoa, dude. Show me some evidence. Even just a little.
You can find pieces here and there one place to start is http://restorationbookstore.org/jsfp-index.htm

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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

Post by SJR3t2 »

I don't agree with everything that Denver says in "Passing the Heavenly Gift" but there is much in there that is good to know and I do agree with. I believe he was exd because he would not retract the book which is quoting LDS leaders journals and other LDS history which has been forgotten along with D&C.

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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

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Meili wrote: May 8th, 2017, 5:08 pm Thanks for the clarification. I think your decision is wise. If you were to continue looking for more, you would be rejecting what the Lord had already given you. However, I would add (and you might also agree) that though you have no need to go looking into other organizations to find the truth, there is much to explore within the things that the Spirit has already validated to you. You don't need to keep asking if the Book of Mormon is true but you can keep asking about it, about understanding its content, and continue receiving answers. In fact, I would imagine that if you did not do so, you would not be fully taking advantage of the witness the Spirit already provided you. Would you agree?
I believe the BoM teaches us that we need to continually be learning from God other wise we will forget what we have to the point of being damned.

Alma 12
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.
10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.
11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell.

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Jonesy
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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

Post by Jonesy »

I've left the troubled DS movement myself. I've come to the conclusion that we need to focus on becoming experts in the first principles of the Gospel through obedience. Oh, and love God and love others. Everything else will follow. I'm trying to hit the reset button again.

I really hope you join the Church again. You're right that it has faults, but it's the right place to be.

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nightlight
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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

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SJR3t2 wrote: May 8th, 2017, 12:59 pm I am Steven, and yes this is my blog. I'm glad you liked what I brought out.
Do you believe Joseph Smith was a prophet?

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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

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NIGHTLIGHT wrote: May 8th, 2017, 7:25 pm Do you believe Joseph Smith was a prophet?
I do, and that he saw Jesus Christ face to face, and that the Book of Mormon is the word of God.

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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

Post by SJR3t2 »

Jonesy1982 wrote: May 8th, 2017, 7:15 pm I've left the troubled DS movement myself. I've come to the conclusion that we need to focus on becoming experts in the first principles of the Gospel through obedience. Oh, and love God and love others. Everything else will follow. I'm trying to hit the reset button again.

I really hope you join the Church again. You're right that it has faults, but it's the right place to be.
Thanks for your kind words. I am open about talking about the issues as I see them, if you wanted too, perhaps on another thread or email or were ever, as this was not my purpose for this thread.

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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

Post by nightlight »

SJR3t2 wrote: May 8th, 2017, 7:39 pm
NIGHTLIGHT wrote: May 8th, 2017, 7:25 pm Do you believe Joseph Smith was a prophet?
I do, and that he saw Jesus Christ face to face, and that the Book of Mormon is the word of God.
But you believe the priesthood has been taken from the earth?

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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

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NIGHTLIGHT wrote: May 8th, 2017, 7:47 pm But you believe the priesthood has been taken from the earth?
I believe it is still on the earth. There are some very good forgotten quotes about how the highest priesthood is given from Joseph Smith and I see it in the BoM also.

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nightlight
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Re: My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

Post by nightlight »

SJR3t2 wrote: May 8th, 2017, 7:49 pm
NIGHTLIGHT wrote: May 8th, 2017, 7:47 pm But you believe the priesthood has been taken from the earth?
I believe it is still on the earth. There are some very good forgotten quotes about how the highest priesthood is given from Joseph Smith and I see it in the BoM also.
So who do you believe are the current priesthood holders?

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