I need some help about a subject....

[Barb]

I need some help with a little difference of opinion I'm having with someone on another board. The subject is about how members are treated when they no longer believe in the LDS church and some even resign their membership.

I've read so many stories of divorce, excluding the exLDS family member from things, leaving them out of wills, treating them as outcasts. The big one is when a spouse divorces the member that loses their testimony.

The person I'm discussing these things with believes that I'm only getting half of the story. She thinks there are just as many TBM's (true believing Mormons) who are treated badly by their exLDS friends and family.

Have any of you experienced this from someone you know who once believed? Have you been treated badly for being a TBM from family or a friend that no longer believes?

[Rose Garden]

I'm curious about the answer to this question too.

I've left the church but when I was a member, I don't recall any animosity from ex-members except for a few times when I was on my mission.

[Serragon]

During my time as Elders Quorum president, I had 2 men leave the church who were part of my quorum. I have also had the opportunity to sit in on many disciplinary councils.

First Case: Man left church but his family stayed. At first he was fine. After about a month he began making sarcastic and demeaning comments to them for their continued faith. Over the next few months this got worse. He began drinking a lot. He would have the kids wear clothing with derogatory phrases like "I used to be mormon, but now I'm free". Things got really bad.

Second Case: Man and wife left together. Both became very aggressive to anyone who was LDS. Both eventually cut off all ties with their LDS friends.

My experience tells me that when people leave the church because they feel they have been betrayed or deceived, they have some anger and behave rather poorly. Whey they leave because they gradually stop believing, they tend to behave just fine.

[Alaris]

I need some help with a little difference of opinion I'm having with someone on another board. The subject is about how members are treated when they no longer believe in the LDS church and some even resign their membership.

I've read so many stories of divorce, excluding the exLDS family member from things, leaving them out of wills, treating them as outcasts. The big one is when a spouse divorces the member that loses their testimony.

The person I'm discussing these things with believes that I'm only getting half of the story. She thinks there are just as many TBM's (true believing Mormons) who are treated badly by their exLDS friends and family.

Have any of you experienced this from someone you know who once believed? Have you been treated badly for being a TBM from family or a friend that no longer believes?

IMHO you can't just quit the true church where you once had a testimony without a persistent effort to keep that testimony buried. (Similar to the concept that lies only live as long as people are sustaining them.) The fact that ex members so often have a persistent need to fight the church is further evidence of its truthfulness. If it weren't true, then wouldn't people just be grateful they found out before they wasted any more time and enjoy their newfound "freedom?"

[Ezra]

I think it could go either way depending on the situation and person. I seen many lds treat non or ex lds very poorly. Looking down on them and so on. I have seen the same from ex lds and none lds towards lds.

People in and out of the church have the same issues of judgement and pride. Tell that changes it will always be a mixed bag of finger pointing and victim hood.

[Yahtzee]

I see both. I have one friend who is still on friendly terms. The rest have become quite mean spirited, especially family members. But I also have seen those family members who have left treated very poorly, mostly by the older generation.
One was written out of a will but that's because his parents don't want him spending the money on drugs, not because he's resigned membership.
It's really awkward at Christmas when most of the family is singing Christmas hymns and the atheists just sit there looking grim and bored.

[ebenezerarise]

I find it unusual how family members who leave the Church suddenly become critical of MY behavior. And I'm the one not to say a word or pry or act differently. They leave....then I get put under the microscope. It's been that way for as long as I can remember and it happens every time.

[davedan]

its not lds doctrine to ostracize family but to continue to love.

But if there are drug and alcohol issues, that may be a reason not to leave a family member money to buy more drugs or to have around while still using.

[kittycat51]

During my time as Elders Quorum president, I had 2 men leave the church who were part of my quorum. I have also had the opportunity to sit in on many disciplinary councils.

First Case: Man left church but his family stayed. At first he was fine. After about a month he began making sarcastic and demeaning comments to them for their continued faith. Over the next few months this got worse. He began drinking a lot. He would have the kids wear clothing with derogatory phrases like "I used to be mormon, but now I'm free". Things got really bad.

Second Case: Man and wife left together. Both became very aggressive to anyone who was LDS. Both eventually cut off all ties with their LDS friends.

My experience tells me that when people leave the church because they feel they have been betrayed or deceived, they have some anger and behave rather poorly. Whey they leave because they gradually stop believing, they tend to behave just fine.

I think your last paragraph is a key issue and spot on. I have a couple of examples as well.

First case: My 22 year old son has left the church. He just slowly slipped away. I was angry at first and would give him the cold shoulder every time he missed church. MY BAD! I learned pretty quickly that our relationship was being effected by MY attitude. My love for him should stand above all else no matter what he chooses and NOT be based on those choices. He needed to know that. Things have changed on my part, and our relationship is so much better. But what is interesting also is his attitude towards the Church. He holds no animosity, and points no fingers. He actually still participates in Family Prayer which is interesting because I'm not sure he believes in God right now. (probably more for show to his younger brothers and parents?) He will even sit in on Family Night but I can tell he is totally bored and not paying attention.

Second case: A niece in her 30's who left the church years ago due to her issues with the Church's stance on gay marriage and abortion. She is bitter and will lambaste the Church and family members on Facebook who appose her views. It can get nasty. THAT is why I quit Facebook a year ago. It wasn't worth it. Interesting thing though is when the family gets together we all put our differences aside and get along quite nicely. We have come to realize that family relations come first and we need to respect each other's point of view.

I feel bad for people IN the Church who turn a cold shoulder to those who have left or are not members to begin with. We ALL know this is wrong behavior. This is why we are here on earth, to try to the best we can to improve ourselves and follow Christ's example.

[Rose Garden]

I find it unusual how family members who leave the Church suddenly become critical of MY behavior. And I'm the one not to say a word or pry or act differently. They leave....then I get put under the microscope. It's been that way for as long as I can remember and it happens every time.

Wow. How many of your family members have left?

[braingrunt]

I know at least one person thought I behaved poorly toward michaelhord while he was here. I'm sure the case could be made, and in other instances. But my limited experience says that disaffected usually behave worse.

The exmo forums are vile. If you do apologetics there you will be abused.

[BTH&T]

I have had several experiences of seeing people leave the Church and in every case there is an underlying issue. Sin.
This is not to be judgmental, we are all sinners.
The dark does not abide the light, so it is with us when we are not living as we know we should. We as sinners just feel too guilty to abide the light and go to where we feel more "at home".

I have a two separate family members that have a very close relative that is gay. This has been out in the open for years and I personally have not seen attacks on the individuals that are gay, no disowning, no making fun of, in fact it has been the opposite. An over abundance of support!
Slowly in both cases the family members that are close to the the gay members have withdrawn from Church and family. They are torn I know, but they choose the loved ones sin and justify it to the point that they have totally withdrawn and become critical of seemingly unrelated issues.
I've witnessed the same thing happen because of infidelity, greed, addiction to others. The common thread is that they can't separate the guilt and look for reasons to justify leaving the Gospel. Heartbreaking.
Satan is real and does enjoy dragging us all down weather by our own sin or for our choosing to condone others sin.

[ebenezerarise]

I find it unusual how family members who leave the Church suddenly become critical of MY behavior. And I'm the one not to say a word or pry or act differently. They leave....then I get put under the microscope. It's been that way for as long as I can remember and it happens every time.

Wow. How many of your family members have left?

Well, I have a large family. Of my cousins, aunts, uncles and assorted hangers-on I'd peg it at about 30% or more.

Of my seven Millennial children -- three have left, one is wavering and ALL are struggling, as we all do in our 20s and 30s. They are ALL great people and I claim every one of them.

[ebenezerarise]

I have a two separate family members that have a very close relative that is gay. This has been out in the open for years and I personally have not seen attacks on the individuals that are gay, no disowning, no making fun of, in fact it has been the opposite. An over abundance of support!
Slowly in both cases the family members that are close to the the gay members have withdrawn from Church and family. They are torn I know, but they choose the loved ones sin and justify it to the point that they have totally withdrawn and become critical of seemingly unrelated issues.
I've witnessed the same thing happen because of infidelity, greed, addiction to others. The common thread is that they can't separate the guilt and look for reasons to justify leaving the Gospel. Heartbreaking.
Satan is real and does enjoy dragging us all down weather by our own sin or for our choosing to condone others sin.

Oh yes.

I had a member of my stake recently come up to me after a meeting and thanked me for friending his openly gay son on Facebook. He is 21, and a good friend to several of my children.

I was pretty surprised to hear this from his father. Why wouldn't I friend him?

He posts some pretty out-there stuff and I occasionally respond, usually to challenge and defend. He's really pretty patient with me, though we really disagree on many topics. Over the course of time, we've developed quite a dialogue and every once in a while he asks me for advice, both publicly and privately.

This young man's father told me I would pay a price for being his friend.

If I have paid a price I haven't seen it. And it has been a while now.

[Silver]

Of my seven Millennial children -- three have left, one is wavering and ALL are struggling, as we all do in our 20s and 30s. They are ALL great people and I claim every one of them.

"Let the father and mother, who are members of this Church and Kingdom, take a righteous course, and strive with all their might never to do a wrong, but to do good all their lives; if they have one child or one hundred children, if they conduct themselves towards them as they should, binding them to the Lord by their faith and prayers, I care not where those children go, they are bound up to their parents by an everlasting tie, and no power of earth or hell can separate them from their parents in eternity; they will return again to the fountain from whence they sprang (Discourses of Brigham Young, 208)." (close quote)

Beautiful, comforting words.

[Robin Hood]

IMHO you can't just quit the true church where you once had a testimony without a persistent effort to keep that testimony buried.

Nailed it.

[eddiek]

Soon after the Prophet’s arrival . . . from Missouri prison, Brother Isaac Behunin and myself made him a visit at his residence. His persecutions were the topic of conversation. . . . Brother Behunin remarked: ‘If I should leave this Church . . . I would go to some remote place where Mormonism had never been heard of, settle down, and no one would ever learn that I knew anything about it.’
Replied Joseph, ‘Brother Behunin, you don’t know what you would do. . . . Before you joined this Church you stood on neutral ground. . . . When you joined this Church you enlisted to serve God. When you did that you left the neutral ground, and you never can get back on to it. Should you forsake the Master you enlisted to serve, it will be by the instigation of the evil one, and you will follow his dictation and be his servant.’
Daniel Tyler, in “Recollections of the Prophet Joseph Smith,” Juvenile Instructor, Aug. 15, 1892
(quoted in Teachings:Joseph Smith, ch.27; paraphrased)

[Rose Garden]

I wonder if Barb will ever come back.

[brianj]

When I became LDS I was told that one set of my grandparents had written me out of their will. Relationships with some other family members became very strained. And none of this was due to anything I had done to offend them other than to convert to the LDS faith. I also lost all of my friends that I had before joining the church, and it took a very long time for me to start making friends within the church.

I was 18 years old when I joined the church and making friends was almost impossible for a long time. The people who were close to my age had been raised in the church and were perfectly happy with their circle of friends as it then was. It was equally impossible to get any attention from the young ladies at the local institute or in the YSA ward. I wasn't a returned missionary, didn't have a big LDS family that their family would approve of, and had no intention of going on a mission therefore I wasn't worthy of their attention.

A couple weeks ago I had the pleasure of listening to an incredible member of this church, Al Carraway, describe difficulties related to her conversion. One of the things that she described was that her father told her that she would have to choose between the church and him. It brought back an unpleasant memory of trying to visit my father, knowing he was home, but being ignored at the front door.

I know this isn't exactly what the OP was asking about, but when someone turns away from their background join the LDS church they can be faced with a lot of negativity both from those who have been in their lives until then and from church members.

[Older/wiser?]

When I became LDS I was told that one set of my grandparents had written me out of their will. Relationships with some other family members became very strained. And none of this was due to anything I had done to offend them other than to convert to the LDS faith. I also lost all of my friends that I had before joining the church, and it took a very long time for me to start making friends within the church.

I was 18 years old when I joined the church and making friends was almost impossible for a long time. The people who were close to my age had been raised in the church and were perfectly happy with their circle of friends as it then was. It was equally impossible to get any attention from the young ladies at the local institute or in the YSA ward. I wasn't a returned missionary, didn't have a big LDS family that their family would approve of, and had no intention of going on a mission therefore I wasn't worthy of their attention.

A couple weeks ago I had the pleasure of listening to an incredible member of this church, Al Carraway, describe difficulties related to her conversion. One of the things that she described was that her father told her that she would have to choose between the church and him. It brought back an unpleasant memory of trying to visit my father, knowing he was home, but being ignored at the front door.

I know this isn't exactly what the OP was asking about, but when someone turns away from their background join the LDS church they can be faced with a lot of negativity both from those who have been in their lives until then and from church members.

Maybe that is why you value your testimony , you payed a price for it. Maybe if more of us had to consciously choose we would be more converted. I do believe we will all see a day, either in our personal lives or collectively, where we will be given the opportunity to " pay a price" for true conversion. Human nature is we don't value what is free.

[BTH&T]

I wonder if Barb will ever come back.

Another Drive by?

[Fiannan]

Humans are tribal, some take that to the extreme. In Islam the punishment for apostasy is death. In LDS circles it can be as varied as there are families and associations. I would say that I have read about a lot of liberals cutting off family and friends who voted for Trump. I think ultimately when people cut others off it is due to their own insecurities about their positions.

[oneClimbs]

I need some help with a little difference of opinion I'm having with someone on another board. The subject is about how members are treated when they no longer believe in the LDS church and some even resign their membership.

I've read so many stories of divorce, excluding the exLDS family member from things, leaving them out of wills, treating them as outcasts. The big one is when a spouse divorces the member that loses their testimony.

The person I'm discussing these things with believes that I'm only getting half of the story. She thinks there are just as many TBM's (true believing Mormons) who are treated badly by their exLDS friends and family.

Have any of you experienced this from someone you know who once believed? Have you been treated badly for being a TBM from family or a friend that no longer believes?

It isn't as if these actions are coordinated, individuals will act differently in any given case. I agree with several here, when there has been a dynamic shift in perspective, it can cause heated exchanges and contention.

[Kitkat]

IMHO you can't just quit the true church where you once had a testimony without a persistent effort to keep that testimony buried. (Similar to the concept that lies only live as long as people are sustaining them.) The fact that ex members so often have a persistent need to fight the church is further evidence of its truthfulness. If it weren't true, then wouldn't people just be grateful they found out before they wasted any more time and enjoy their newfound "freedom?"

Here we go again. There are "some" ex members that we as ex members are helping to distinguish between an organization of traditions vs the gospel restored. Those some ex members tend to throw it all out, instead of seeing the beauty of the gospel restored without the ickiness of correlation chocking it.

Some corrections if you will.

Edited freely

IMHO you can't CAN just quit the true church where you once had a testimony of the organization and follow the prophet or be lead astray teachings without a persistent effort from the Lord to keep that testimony buried focused on Him and His true gospel of LOVE rather than on some organization and some men of authority (see 1 Nephi 8:5-7). (Similar to the concept that lies testimony based on anything but Christ only lives as long as people are sustaining false fears, or are taught and believe that ultimate salvation is found through following the prophet, don't go astray.) The fact that ex members so often have a persistent need to fight the false traditions of the church corporation just as Christ did the san hedren and pharasees is further evidence of the truthfulness of the gospel restored in it's fullness and purity vs the philosophies of men traditions. If it the church was true, which doesn't even make sense, then wouldn't people just be grateful they found out before they wasted any more time and Once people discover the fullness of the gospel having taken the Holy Spirit as their guide, they then clearly are shown the only path back to God is cleaving to Christ, and it is He, Christ, who leads them on their journey to the Love of God. It is then that they truly do enjoy their newfound "freedom" in the TRUE GOSPEL RESTORED and it's fullness and purity - as truth does set one free, once understanding comes as a witness from only one voice the voice of Christ, understanding that clarifies with child like simplicity the knowledge we have been given.

;)

[Rose Garden]

I wonder if Barb will ever come back.

Another Drive by?

Appears that way.