From Scott - the NOWmormon

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inho
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Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by inho »

When Scott wrote his first post, I had this weird feeling about it. It sounded like an advertisement campaign. The term NOW Mormon that Scott coined sounded like a brand or trademark. He didn't seem to be interested to have a real conversation, he just wanted to find people who already thought like he. So I wasn't surprise when I found out that he has started a new webpage: www.mormonwounds.com/. His agenda is this:
The purpose of this site:

-Promote and secure acknowledgement and validation from church leadership of NOW Mormons

-Promote and receive compassionate public recognition, remorse and regret from church leadership for the Culture of Concealment historically perpetuated by the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

-MAKE THE ABOVE HAPPEN DURING GENERAL CONFERENCE, OCTOBER 2017.

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Elizabeth
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Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by Elizabeth »

Shame on you Scott. Have you nothing constructive to do with your time? I was a practicing and active Anglican before the LDS Missionaries came to my door. Never would it occur to me to now spend my time persecuting the Anglican Church as you and others seem to consider your duty to do to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If you want to leave, just leave.

inho wrote: May 9th, 2017, 2:27 am When Scott wrote his first post, I had this weird feeling about it. It sounded like an advertisement campaign. The term NOW Mormon that Scott coined sounded like a brand or trademark. He didn't seem to be interested to have a real conversation, he just wanted to find people who already thought like he. So I wasn't surprise when I found out that he has started a new webpage: www.mormonwounds.com/. His agenda is this:
The purpose of this site:

-Promote and secure acknowledgement and validation from church leadership of NOW Mormons

-Promote and receive compassionate public recognition, remorse and regret from church leadership for the Culture of Concealment historically perpetuated by the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

-MAKE THE ABOVE HAPPEN DURING GENERAL CONFERENCE, OCTOBER 2017.

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AI2.0
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Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by AI2.0 »

Finrock wrote: May 8th, 2017, 8:51 am
AI2.0 wrote: May 8th, 2017, 7:52 am
NOWmormon wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 9:00 pm I am thinking that this is not the correct venue for me and other members like me.

...At least a conversation has been started.
Maybe it will help users here bear each others burdens a little more.
Maybe it will eventually help you to welcome others who, like me, go to the temple with you, sit in general conference with you, home teach you, and ordain you.
I will look elsewhere.
I remember the words "Where can I turn for peace, where is my solace".
Obviously it is in Jesus Christ, our Savior and Redeemer.
and who does He reach out to?
Not the ninety and nine, which are safe, but the one.
And maybe "the one" is not lost, but searching for support, because the ninety and nine say "he has lost his testimony" and "Who cares?", like some of you told me.
The Sacrament prayer says we must keep the commandments which He has given us, so that we may have His spirit to be with us.
And what is the new commandment?--love one another.
Have you loved me?

Until we meet again, perhaps in other forums.
Adieu


Alma 60:36
...I seek not for power...I seek not for honor of the world, but for the glory of my God...And thus I close mine epistle.
I think Scott was right, this wasn't the right venue for what he wanted.

Some believe Scott was looking for answers, but if you read his OP on the other thread, the only question he asked was 'Are you are NOWMormon?' Read it, that is the only question he had. He started by explaining that the church had put out controversial essays and then he made a list of what HE believed were the conclusions to those essays. He had no questions on those things, it was settled in his mind that he had the answers. What he was looking for were 'like minded' people, in other words, those agreed with his conclusions and who felt the church had harmed them by not being forthcoming with information and then, sharing it in the form of these essays.

And I think it's pretty obvious that when he said a 'safe place' he meant a place where others would not question or challenge his conclusions but accept them as truth--which I think he quickly surmised, was NOT this place, because some of us were not going to go along with his 'truth'.

Anyway, I wish Scott only the best, I hope he can find what he's looking for, but I also hope that he will one day be willing to revisit his conclusions and see if maybe he might need to read and study, pray and search a little more to find truth--and most importantly, Go to God in humble prayer for answers, not validation for conclusions made in haste. I think he owes it to himself, after 50 years as a member of this church. All those years, he was apparently a devout member, the gospel brought joy to his life, the scriptures taught him truths, he loved and served others, maybe even exercised priesthood power and experienced miracles and then, he comes to believe something and all that is thrown to the wind. Why is that? Who changed? The church didn't, it's still the same organization--but what changed was his opinion of Joseph Smith jr. Joseph was warned that his name would be had for good and evil and even during his lifetime saw many of those who'd once been dear friends and beloved companions turn against him. That's part of what so is sad...Satan is still able to do that today.
I don't think you know what is in Scott's heart and mind. The better option is to believe the best of people and give them the benefit of the doubt. His post was speaking about how he was feeling. We aren't in a position to say that he isn't feeling what he says he was feeling, unless we can read his mind and know his heart, which we cannot, unless you are claiming to have the power of God and that you discerned all of these things through the power of the Holy Ghost?

The way that we justify treating another person with dismissiveness or justify not acknowledging their feelings is by "mind reading" and stating that they aren't who they say they are, they don't believe what they say they believe, they aren't feeling what they say they are feeling, or by second guessing their motives or by changing their motives to something more sinister. When we exercise this "mind reading" skill, we can more easily dismiss another person and disregards their feelings.

-Finrock
For someone who chides others for 'mind reading', you seem completely oblivious of all the mind reading of others you do on a regular basis in your posts.
(Your knee jerk response will be to request that I provide examples--let me save you the time wasted responding to me-- I'm not going to do that. I'm simply feeling tired right now of being lectured by you)

I don't think you know what is in my heart, so don't you think you could take your own advice and give me the benefit of the doubt? How about giving it to your fellow posters instead of constantly looking for opportunities to criticize and judge us....

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AI2.0
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Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by AI2.0 »

inho wrote: May 9th, 2017, 2:27 am When Scott wrote his first post, I had this weird feeling about it. It sounded like an advertisement campaign. The term NOW Mormon that Scott coined sounded like a brand or trademark. He didn't seem to be interested to have a real conversation, he just wanted to find people who already thought like he. So I wasn't surprise when I found out that he has started a new webpage: www.mormonwounds.com/. His agenda is this:
The purpose of this site:

-Promote and secure acknowledgement and validation from church leadership of NOW Mormons

-Promote and receive compassionate public recognition, remorse and regret from church leadership for the Culture of Concealment historically perpetuated by the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

-MAKE THE ABOVE HAPPEN DURING GENERAL CONFERENCE, OCTOBER 2017.
Thank you so much for finding this out and sharing it. I think that answers my question. As I mentioned, looking back on his initial post, he only actually asked one question--'Are you a Nowmormon?'--other than that, he told us what he believed were 'settled' facts about the church and history. He wanted no input, probably because all he was looking for were people who thought like him.

Now, we know why. And call me a horrible cynic, but I don't think this is only about making a statement of some kind during the Conference season--that's just to get publicity. I bet his intentions are to get an 'admission of guilt' so that they can eventually, use the members of his group for a class action lawsuit to demand reparations. In other words, get a settlement of money from the church.

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BTH&T
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Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by BTH&T »

inho wrote: May 9th, 2017, 2:27 am When Scott wrote his first post, I had this weird feeling about it. It sounded like an advertisement campaign. The term NOW Mormon that Scott coined sounded like a brand or trademark. He didn't seem to be interested to have a real conversation, he just wanted to find people who already thought like he. So I wasn't surprise when I found out that he has started a new webpage: www.mormonwounds.com/. His agenda is this:
The purpose of this site:

-Promote and secure acknowledgement and validation from church leadership of NOW Mormons

-Promote and receive compassionate public recognition, remorse and regret from church leadership for the Culture of Concealment historically perpetuated by the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

-MAKE THE ABOVE HAPPEN DURING GENERAL CONFERENCE, OCTOBER 2017.
Thanks for the information, I too was thinking the OP was trying to get more than understanding & sympathy.

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iWriteStuff
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Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by iWriteStuff »

BTH&T wrote: May 9th, 2017, 7:59 am
inho wrote: May 9th, 2017, 2:27 am When Scott wrote his first post, I had this weird feeling about it. It sounded like an advertisement campaign. The term NOW Mormon that Scott coined sounded like a brand or trademark. He didn't seem to be interested to have a real conversation, he just wanted to find people who already thought like he. So I wasn't surprise when I found out that he has started a new webpage: www.mormonwounds.com/. His agenda is this:
The purpose of this site:

-Promote and secure acknowledgement and validation from church leadership of NOW Mormons

-Promote and receive compassionate public recognition, remorse and regret from church leadership for the Culture of Concealment historically perpetuated by the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

-MAKE THE ABOVE HAPPEN DURING GENERAL CONFERENCE, OCTOBER 2017.
Thanks for the information, I too was thinking the OP was trying to get more than understanding & sympathy.
well, nerts. I erred on the side of compassion and got punked. Oh well. As Joseph Smith said,

"It is better to feed ten impostors than to run the risk of turning away one honest petition."

Silver
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Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by Silver »

I'm a Mormon NOW. I used to be something else up to age 11, but NOW I'm a Mormon. More correctly, I am a member of THE Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and I could not possibly be happier. I have a testimony obtained via the ministration of the Holy Ghost. I know the precious principles taught in this church are true. I have also had sacred experiences -- that I may not mention in this venue -- that leave me with zero doubt. I truly and literally know that the Plan of Salvation is not just some feel good doctrine we tell ourselves.

If anyone else here is not NOW a Mormon, I invite you to consider or reconsider.

Silver
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Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by Silver »

iWriteStuff wrote: May 9th, 2017, 8:13 amwell, nerts. I erred on the side of compassion and got punked. Oh well. As Joseph Smith said,

"It is better to feed ten impostors than to run the risk of turning away one honest petition."
Yeah, I Googled him a few days ago and he's got stuff on reddit, too, in some Anti- section of that labyrinth.

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David13
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Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by David13 »

inho wrote: May 9th, 2017, 2:27 am When Scott wrote his first post, I had this weird feeling about it. It sounded like an advertisement campaign. The term NOW Mormon that Scott coined sounded like a brand or trademark. He didn't seem to be interested to have a real conversation, he just wanted to find people who already thought like he. So I wasn't surprise when I found out that he has started a new webpage: www.mormonwounds.com/. His agenda is this:
The purpose of this site:

-Promote and secure acknowledgement and validation from church leadership of NOW Mormons

-Promote and receive compassionate public recognition, remorse and regret from church leadership for the Culture of Concealment historically perpetuated by the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

-MAKE THE ABOVE HAPPEN DURING GENERAL CONFERENCE, OCTOBER 2017.


A proposed professional victim.
A money making malcontent.
An intended disrupter.
A street wacko, stand on the corner and yell, "Joseph lied, Joseph lied,Joseph lied."
Just what the world needs. More professional losers.
Sick.

Don't go away mad. Just go away.
dc

Congratulations to Finrock. A fish caught hook, line, and sinker.

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shadow
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Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by shadow »

Finrock wrote: May 8th, 2017, 8:44 am

The way that one justifies belittling, mocking, or dismissing someone's concerns is by "mind reading"...
-Finrock
Or by discernment. You too can ask for this gift.

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David13
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Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by David13 »

iWriteStuff wrote: May 9th, 2017, 8:13 am
BTH&T wrote: May 9th, 2017, 7:59 am
inho wrote: May 9th, 2017, 2:27 am When Scott wrote his first post, I had this weird feeling about it. It sounded like an advertisement campaign. The term NOW Mormon that Scott coined sounded like a brand or trademark. He didn't seem to be interested to have a real conversation, he just wanted to find people who already thought like he. So I wasn't surprise when I found out that he has started a new webpage: www.mormonwounds.com/. His agenda is this:
The purpose of this site:

-Promote and secure acknowledgement and validation from church leadership of NOW Mormons

-Promote and receive compassionate public recognition, remorse and regret from church leadership for the Culture of Concealment historically perpetuated by the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

-MAKE THE ABOVE HAPPEN DURING GENERAL CONFERENCE, OCTOBER 2017.
Thanks for the information, I too was thinking the OP was trying to get more than understanding & sympathy.
well, nerts. I erred on the side of compassion and got punked. Oh well. As Joseph Smith said,

"It is better to feed ten impostors than to run the risk of turning away one honest petition."

Don't confuse apples and oranges there, Stuffie.
dc

Finrock
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Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by Finrock »

inho wrote: May 9th, 2017, 1:28 am
Finrock wrote: May 8th, 2017, 8:51 am
AI2.0 wrote: May 8th, 2017, 7:52 am [the quote is omitted for the sake of space, see it above]
I don't think you know what is in Scott's heart and mind. The better option is to believe the best of people and give them the benefit of the doubt. His post was speaking about how he was feeling. We aren't in a position to say that he isn't feeling what he says he was feeling, unless we can read his mind and know his heart, which we cannot, unless you are claiming to have the power of God and that you discerned all of these things through the power of the Holy Ghost?

The way that we justify treating another person with dismissiveness or justify not acknowledging their feelings is by "mind reading" and stating that they aren't who they say they are, they don't believe what they say they believe, they aren't feeling what they say they are feeling, or by second guessing their motives or by changing their motives to something more sinister. When we exercise this "mind reading" skill, we can more easily dismiss another person and disregards their feelings.
Finrock, my intention is not to argue, but I am curious why do you address your words to AI2.0? Do you think he was "mind reading"? I thought he was just taking Scott's words at face value. I agree that we should give people the benefit of the doubt and not try to guess what they feel of think. All we know is what Scott wrote. He didn't ask any questions about church history and he didn't engage in conversations about it either. So is it really far-fetched to say that his mind was set and he was just looking for sympathizers?
Yes. AI2.0 essentially wrote a summary and synopsis about Scott's life, as if they knew and understood this individual intimately, far outside of the scope of what Scott has said. AI2.0 assumes that Scott has not gone to God in humble prayer. He/She assumes that Scott made conclusions in haste. He/She assumes that Scott has thrown his faith out the window. Feeling hurt, betrayed, or deceived was his stated purpose for posting, none of which preclude the ideas that he has been praying humbly, he has made his decisions after much research and pondering, and that he still intends to hang on to his faith.

There was never any reason to think Scott was looking for answers, per se, although he stated he was looking for some support. Based on his post he had correctly surmised that the Church has not been as forthcoming about the history of Joseph Smith and the history of the Church in the past as they ought to have been and that the Church intentionally and purposefully downplayed or kept in obscurity many controversial aspects of Church history. He claims that he feels hurt and betrayed by these actions. He clearly wanted sympathy and compassion. I don't think there was any pretense about that. Although based on what you've researched and the information you've found it appears that he was using this as a venue to advertise for his campaign. If this is indeed true, then he should have been forthcoming about his motivations and his desires in regards to that making his actions ironic and hypocritical. Meaning, if he joined the forum with the pretense of becoming a member of this community and in order to find people who might sympathize with him and perhaps help console him, show empathy, and compassion as a member of this community, but instead he was just using it as a venue to advertise his movement or his campaign with no intention of ever sincerely engaging with others here, then he was being disingenuous. In the beginning, though, none of this was known and there were many who were making all sorts of assumptions about him and being quite mean spirited.

Here is what he stated his purpose here was:
Scott wrote:I am just starting to go through your replies to my post.

While I appreciate them, most of the responses I have read so far are very judgmental, without compassion (n to saying they all are, just the majority I have read so far.

I am a member of the true church.
I have a testimony.
I am a High Priest.
I served a full foreign mission.
I was married in the temple.
I have been dedicated to the church, the Lord and it's member throughout my life.

I reach out to you and judgement is what you give me.

Listen to the words of my very first post:
I feel betrayed, deceived and hurt.

These aren't the words of an "anti-mormon" or "this kind of newbie".
I finally have the courage to open myself up and become vulnerable and this is how you treat me.

How can you be proud of that?

Would the Lord treat me this way?
His brothers and sisters came to Him for help, guidance, healing.

When you bear your testimony and say that you know the Lord's church is true, do you believe that?
Can't other members of this same church also reach out to you, his flock?

When I asked if you were a NOW mormon (neglected or wounded) I was looking for similarities, that maybe I was not alone. That maybe this was a safe place for me.

Instead, I get comments like --where have you been,this has been around for years? ....and after 50 years you still don't have a testimony?

Shame on you.

Thank you for making me feel so loved and supported.
If he was being disingenuous and if he was trying to manipulate people's feelings, then shame on him. If he was never intending to receive "help, guidance, and healing" as he claimed, then shame on him again.

But, regardless of his intentions and his actions, the best option is to treat him with compassion and try to empathize as opposed to judging him, dismissing him, or belittling him. If he feels betrayed, deceived, and hurt, then there should be a space amongst Latter-day Saints where one can feel safe to express these feelings and feel that their feelings will be validated even if one does not agree with all of his conclusions. When it is all said and done it is a valid grievance to feel that the Church should have been more open and forthcoming about its history, as it is doing so today, rather than try to obscure controversial facts by using manipulative and coercive tactics.

-Finrock

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David13
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Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by David13 »

Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:30 am

...


-Finrock

Finrock
He/she didn't truthfully state his intentions here.
However, his true intentions have been revealed here.
You were scammed. Or as Writey puts it "punked".

You really think his prayer was answered with "Go disrupt the Conference." I sure don't.
But then I doubt if anyone considers me gullible.

If a person has not already received the power of discernment, one can pray for it, and maybe receive it.
dc

Finrock
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Posts: 4426

Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by Finrock »

David13 wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:38 am
Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:30 am

...


-Finrock

Finrock
He/she didn't truthfully state his intentions here.
However, his true intentions have been revealed here.
You were scammed. Or as Writey puts it "punked".

You really think his prayer was answered with "Go disrupt the Conference." I sure don't.
But then I doubt if anyone considers me gullible.

If a person has not already received the power of discernment, one can pray for it, and maybe receive it.
dc
No, David, its more like reserving judgment until facts are discovered:

Posted May 2, 2017
Finrock wrote:Sure, he might be a troll...but he might not. If the OP is sincere, he should be able to go to any place where Latter-day Saints are found and expect to be treated with respect and dignity.

Wise as serpents but harmless as doves, is what Christ said we should be.

-Finrock
Posted May 2, 2017
Finrock wrote:He may have an ulterior motive. That is yet to be determined. However, at face value, he has said none of the things you are suggesting...
-Finrock

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David13
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Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by David13 »

Silver wrote: May 9th, 2017, 8:19 am I'm a Mormon NOW. I used to be something else up to age 11, but NOW I'm a Mormon. More correctly, I am a member of THE Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and I could not possibly be happier. I have a testimony obtained via the ministration of the Holy Ghost. I know the precious principles taught in this church are true. I have also had sacred experiences -- that I may not mention in this venue -- that leave me with zero doubt. I truly and literally know that the Plan of Salvation is not just some feel good doctrine we tell ourselves.

If anyone else here is not NOW a Mormon, I invite you to consider or reconsider.

I'm a Mormon now too. I was something else until age 65. I guess I'm not gullible, just a little slow. That's my great regret. That I didn't walk in the door long ago. It would have made a world of difference in my life.
I knew about the church as a child. I knew about the faults, or the faults of some of the members. I knew about the controversy over polygamy. I knew about this history, of the trek, both as part of the western movement, and as a religious pilgrimage. I knew about the Temples, and felt that they had a draw for me, like a fly to a light. I knew about the state and the relationship to the church and the federal government.
I knew about the missionaries, the Book of Mormon and the meeting houses.
I knew about the signs "Visitors Welcome".
But I didn't realize I just had to walk in the door. (On Sunday, as I also knew the doors were locked sometimes).

Why am I here?
To listen and to learn. To ask questions, to challenge, to discern truth from a sales pitch.
To change.
I have along way to go, but I'm convinced I'm on the right path, now.
dc

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David13
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Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by David13 »

Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:48 am
David13 wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:38 am
Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:30 am

...


-Finrock

Finrock
He/she didn't truthfully state his intentions here.
However, his true intentions have been revealed here.
You were scammed. Or as Writey puts it "punked".

You really think his prayer was answered with "Go disrupt the Conference." I sure don't.
But then I doubt if anyone considers me gullible.

If a person has not already received the power of discernment, one can pray for it, and maybe receive it.
dc
No, David, its more like reserving judgment until facts are discovered:

Posted May 2, 2017
Finrock wrote:Sure, he might be a troll...but he might not. If the OP is sincere, he should be able to go to any place where Latter-day Saints are found and expect to be treated with respect and dignity.

Wise as serpents but harmless as doves, is what Christ said we should be.

-Finrock
Posted May 2, 2017
Finrock wrote:He may have an ulterior motive. That is yet to be determined. However, at face value, he has said none of the things you are suggesting...
-Finrock

You are grasping at straws. And they are skimpy straws, at that.
It's always difficult for anyone to admit that they were wrong when they were wrong.
But the evidence is clearly there.

This power of discernment is rather a simple thing. When we see a brick wall coming at us fast, we think we should stop, slow, or turn. Some don't. Some just don't get it. With consequences.

I think you clearly got the harmless as doves thing down mostly. Most of us have that anyway, from what I've seen. But the wise as serpent parts eludes all of us at times.
dc

Finrock
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Posts: 4426

Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by Finrock »

David13 wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:59 am
Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:48 am
David13 wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:38 am
Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:30 am

...


-Finrock

Finrock
He/she didn't truthfully state his intentions here.
However, his true intentions have been revealed here.
You were scammed. Or as Writey puts it "punked".

You really think his prayer was answered with "Go disrupt the Conference." I sure don't.
But then I doubt if anyone considers me gullible.

If a person has not already received the power of discernment, one can pray for it, and maybe receive it.
dc
No, David, its more like reserving judgment until facts are discovered:

Posted May 2, 2017
Finrock wrote:Sure, he might be a troll...but he might not. If the OP is sincere, he should be able to go to any place where Latter-day Saints are found and expect to be treated with respect and dignity.

Wise as serpents but harmless as doves, is what Christ said we should be.

-Finrock
Posted May 2, 2017
Finrock wrote:He may have an ulterior motive. That is yet to be determined. However, at face value, he has said none of the things you are suggesting...
-Finrock

You are grasping at straws. And they are skimpy straws, at that.
It's always difficult for anyone to admit that they were wrong when they were wrong.
But the evidence is clearly there.

This power of discernment is rather a simple thing. When we see a brick wall coming at us fast, we think we should stop, slow, or turn. Some don't. Some just don't get it. With consequences.

I think you clearly got the harmless as doves thing down mostly. Most of us have that anyway, from what I've seen. But the wise as serpent parts eludes all of us at times.
dc
What is it that you think I was wrong about?

-Finrock

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David13
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Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by David13 »

Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 10:08 am
David13 wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:59 am
Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:48 am
David13 wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:38 am


Finrock
He/she didn't truthfully state his intentions here.
However, his true intentions have been revealed here.
You were scammed. Or as Writey puts it "punked".

You really think his prayer was answered with "Go disrupt the Conference." I sure don't.
But then I doubt if anyone considers me gullible.

If a person has not already received the power of discernment, one can pray for it, and maybe receive it.
dc
No, David, its more like reserving judgment until facts are discovered:

Posted May 2, 2017
Finrock wrote:Sure, he might be a troll...but he might not. If the OP is sincere, he should be able to go to any place where Latter-day Saints are found and expect to be treated with respect and dignity.

Wise as serpents but harmless as doves, is what Christ said we should be.

-Finrock
Posted May 2, 2017
Finrock wrote:He may have an ulterior motive. That is yet to be determined. However, at face value, he has said none of the things you are suggesting...
-Finrock

You are grasping at straws. And they are skimpy straws, at that.
It's always difficult for anyone to admit that they were wrong when they were wrong.
But the evidence is clearly there.

This power of discernment is rather a simple thing. When we see a brick wall coming at us fast, we think we should stop, slow, or turn. Some don't. Some just don't get it. With consequences.

I think you clearly got the harmless as doves thing down mostly. Most of us have that anyway, from what I've seen. But the wise as serpent parts eludes all of us at times.
dc
What is it that you think I was wrong about?

-Finrock
Op's intentions. And the evidence now known.
dc

Finrock
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Posts: 4426

Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by Finrock »

David13 wrote: May 9th, 2017, 10:50 am
Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 10:08 am
David13 wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:59 am
Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:48 am

No, David, its more like reserving judgment until facts are discovered:

Posted May 2, 2017



Posted May 2, 2017



-Finrock

You are grasping at straws. And they are skimpy straws, at that.
It's always difficult for anyone to admit that they were wrong when they were wrong.
But the evidence is clearly there.

This power of discernment is rather a simple thing. When we see a brick wall coming at us fast, we think we should stop, slow, or turn. Some don't. Some just don't get it. With consequences.

I think you clearly got the harmless as doves thing down mostly. Most of us have that anyway, from what I've seen. But the wise as serpent parts eludes all of us at times.
dc
What is it that you think I was wrong about?

-Finrock
Op's intentions.
dc
Okay.

I reserved judgment and took Scott's post at face value and didn't want to accuse him of something until there was data to back it up. I took the "risk" of supporting him knowing that I could be wrong about his intentions. But, my job is not to judge or to make assumptions about individuals. My job is to act in a Christlike way and let the consequence follow.

This whole exchange reminds me of a time when I had just recently returned home from my mission and my older brother and I were walking from our car in to a Wal-mart store. In the parking lot was a lady who stopped and asked us for money so that she could buy gas to get home, she said. We both pulled out five dollars and gave them to her. As we go to the Wal-mart entrance, an employee of Wal-mart stopped us and asked us if we had given that lady money. We said yes. They then suggested that we shouldn't have given the woman money because she was obviously scamming people. He said that she had been there all morning long asking for money for various reasons and that he had seen her drive away earlier to get some food or drink, so she had gas. We thanked the employee for the information and walked away. As we walked away we both just shrugged our shoulders, and said "Oh well." My brother and I both agreed that we had done the right thing. If this lady was being deceptive and if she was being dishonest, then the sin was on her. We acted in good faith and responded to her petition for assistance. There is was no shame or regret in being charitable.

It's nice that you have the spirit of discernment, David. Good for you. And, I mean that sincerely. However, don't you think its a little premature to draw conclusions one way or the other as far as discernment is concerned based off of one example?

-Finrock

User avatar
David13
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7072
Location: Utah

Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by David13 »

Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 11:06 am
David13 wrote: May 9th, 2017, 10:50 am
Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 10:08 am
David13 wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:59 am


You are grasping at straws. And they are skimpy straws, at that.
It's always difficult for anyone to admit that they were wrong when they were wrong.
But the evidence is clearly there.

This power of discernment is rather a simple thing. When we see a brick wall coming at us fast, we think we should stop, slow, or turn. Some don't. Some just don't get it. With consequences.

I think you clearly got the harmless as doves thing down mostly. Most of us have that anyway, from what I've seen. But the wise as serpent parts eludes all of us at times.
dc
What is it that you think I was wrong about?

-Finrock
Op's intentions.
dc
Okay.

I reserved judgment and took Scott's post at face value and didn't want to accuse him of something until there was data to back it up. I took the "risk" of supporting him knowing that I could be wrong about his intentions. But, my job is not to judge or to make assumptions about individuals. My job is to act in a Christlike way and let the consequence follow.

This whole exchange reminds me of a time when I had just recently returned home from my mission and my older brother and I were walking from our car in to a Wal-mart store. In the parking lot was a lady who stopped and asked us for money so that she could buy gas to get home, she said. We both pulled out five dollars and gave them to her. As we go to the Wal-mart entrance, an employee of Wal-mart stopped us and asked us if we had given that lady money. We said yes. They then suggested that we shouldn't have given the woman money because she was obviously scamming people. He said that she had been there all morning long asking for money for various reasons and that he had seen her drive away earlier to get some food or drink, so she had gas. We thanked the employee for the information and walked away. As we walked away we both just shrugged our shoulders, and said "Oh well." My brother and I both agreed that we had done the right thing. If this lady was being deceptive and if she was being dishonest, then the sin was on her. We acted in good faith and responded to her petition for assistance. There is was no shame or regret in being charitable.

It's nice that you have the spirit of discernment, David. Good for you. And, I mean that sincerely. However, don't you think its a little premature to draw conclusions one way or the other as far as discernment is concerned based off of one example?

-Finrock
No. And I don't think I'm the only one.
dc

Finrock
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4426

Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by Finrock »

David13 wrote: May 9th, 2017, 8:13 pm
Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 11:06 am
David13 wrote: May 9th, 2017, 10:50 am
Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 10:08 am

What is it that you think I was wrong about?

-Finrock
Op's intentions.
dc
Okay.

I reserved judgment and took Scott's post at face value and didn't want to accuse him of something until there was data to back it up. I took the "risk" of supporting him knowing that I could be wrong about his intentions. But, my job is not to judge or to make assumptions about individuals. My job is to act in a Christlike way and let the consequence follow.

This whole exchange reminds me of a time when I had just recently returned home from my mission and my older brother and I were walking from our car in to a Wal-mart store. In the parking lot was a lady who stopped and asked us for money so that she could buy gas to get home, she said. We both pulled out five dollars and gave them to her. As we go to the Wal-mart entrance, an employee of Wal-mart stopped us and asked us if we had given that lady money. We said yes. They then suggested that we shouldn't have given the woman money because she was obviously scamming people. He said that she had been there all morning long asking for money for various reasons and that he had seen her drive away earlier to get some food or drink, so she had gas. We thanked the employee for the information and walked away. As we walked away we both just shrugged our shoulders, and said "Oh well." My brother and I both agreed that we had done the right thing. If this lady was being deceptive and if she was being dishonest, then the sin was on her. We acted in good faith and responded to her petition for assistance. There is was no shame or regret in being charitable.

It's nice that you have the spirit of discernment, David. Good for you. And, I mean that sincerely. However, don't you think its a little premature to draw conclusions one way or the other as far as discernment is concerned based off of one example?

-Finrock
No. And I don't think I'm the only one.
dc
Well, popularity doesn't make something right. ;)

-Finrock

User avatar
David13
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7072
Location: Utah

Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by David13 »

Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:04 pm
David13 wrote: May 9th, 2017, 8:13 pm
Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 11:06 am
David13 wrote: May 9th, 2017, 10:50 am

Op's intentions.
dc
Okay.

I reserved judgment and took Scott's post at face value and didn't want to accuse him of something until there was data to back it up. I took the "risk" of supporting him knowing that I could be wrong about his intentions. But, my job is not to judge or to make assumptions about individuals. My job is to act in a Christlike way and let the consequence follow.

This whole exchange reminds me of a time when I had just recently returned home from my mission and my older brother and I were walking from our car in to a Wal-mart store. In the parking lot was a lady who stopped and asked us for money so that she could buy gas to get home, she said. We both pulled out five dollars and gave them to her. As we go to the Wal-mart entrance, an employee of Wal-mart stopped us and asked us if we had given that lady money. We said yes. They then suggested that we shouldn't have given the woman money because she was obviously scamming people. He said that she had been there all morning long asking for money for various reasons and that he had seen her drive away earlier to get some food or drink, so she had gas. We thanked the employee for the information and walked away. As we walked away we both just shrugged our shoulders, and said "Oh well." My brother and I both agreed that we had done the right thing. If this lady was being deceptive and if she was being dishonest, then the sin was on her. We acted in good faith and responded to her petition for assistance. There is was no shame or regret in being charitable.

It's nice that you have the spirit of discernment, David. Good for you. And, I mean that sincerely. However, don't you think its a little premature to draw conclusions one way or the other as far as discernment is concerned based off of one example?

-Finrock
No. And I don't think I'm the only one.
dc
Well, popularity doesn't make something right. ;)

-Finrock
Didn't say it did.
But reinforcement can verify that you don't have an anomaly.
Or that your vision didn't fail you.
dc

Finrock
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4426

Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by Finrock »

David13 wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:12 pm
Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:04 pm
David13 wrote: May 9th, 2017, 8:13 pm
Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 11:06 am

Okay.

I reserved judgment and took Scott's post at face value and didn't want to accuse him of something until there was data to back it up. I took the "risk" of supporting him knowing that I could be wrong about his intentions. But, my job is not to judge or to make assumptions about individuals. My job is to act in a Christlike way and let the consequence follow.

This whole exchange reminds me of a time when I had just recently returned home from my mission and my older brother and I were walking from our car in to a Wal-mart store. In the parking lot was a lady who stopped and asked us for money so that she could buy gas to get home, she said. We both pulled out five dollars and gave them to her. As we go to the Wal-mart entrance, an employee of Wal-mart stopped us and asked us if we had given that lady money. We said yes. They then suggested that we shouldn't have given the woman money because she was obviously scamming people. He said that she had been there all morning long asking for money for various reasons and that he had seen her drive away earlier to get some food or drink, so she had gas. We thanked the employee for the information and walked away. As we walked away we both just shrugged our shoulders, and said "Oh well." My brother and I both agreed that we had done the right thing. If this lady was being deceptive and if she was being dishonest, then the sin was on her. We acted in good faith and responded to her petition for assistance. There is was no shame or regret in being charitable.

It's nice that you have the spirit of discernment, David. Good for you. And, I mean that sincerely. However, don't you think its a little premature to draw conclusions one way or the other as far as discernment is concerned based off of one example?

-Finrock
No. And I don't think I'm the only one.
dc
Well, popularity doesn't make something right. ;)

-Finrock
Didn't say it did.
But reinforcement can verify that you don't have an anomaly.
Or that your vision didn't fail you.
dc
Sometimes it can. Then again sometimes those you depend on for verification may not be seeing any clearer than you are or maybe even less clear. :)

-Finrock

User avatar
David13
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7072
Location: Utah

Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by David13 »

Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:19 pm
David13 wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:12 pm
Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:04 pm
David13 wrote: May 9th, 2017, 8:13 pm

No. And I don't think I'm the only one.
dc
Well, popularity doesn't make something right. ;)

-Finrock
Didn't say it did.
But reinforcement can verify that you don't have an anomaly.
Or that your vision didn't fail you.
dc
Sometimes it can. Then again sometimes those you depend on for verification may not be seeing any clearer than you are or maybe even less clear. :)

-Finrock
Again, it's discernment.
And various other rules I learned over the years.
dc

Finrock
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4426

Re: From Scott - the NOWmormon

Post by Finrock »

David13 wrote: May 10th, 2017, 7:40 am
Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:19 pm
David13 wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:12 pm
Finrock wrote: May 9th, 2017, 9:04 pm

Well, popularity doesn't make something right. ;)

-Finrock
Didn't say it did.
But reinforcement can verify that you don't have an anomaly.
Or that your vision didn't fail you.
dc
Sometimes it can. Then again sometimes those you depend on for verification may not be seeing any clearer than you are or maybe even less clear. :)

-Finrock
Again, it's discernment.
And various other rules I learned over the years.
dc
:-BD

-Finrock

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