Trump supporters see a plan...

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eddie
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2405

Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by eddie »

Fox News Poll
POLITICS
Trump's first 100 days: Supporters see a plan taking shape
By Christopher Wallace Published April 24, 2017 Fox News
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Trump to ramp up executive orders as he reaches 100th day

It’s early March and 2,000 screaming, raucous protesters, many of them Hispanic, line 82nd Avenue along Miami’s Tropical Park. It seems like almost every passing driver honks their horn, apparently in support. A local news reporter makes his way along the rowdy rally and asks a handful why they are there.

“The people need to know this is the president we wanted for our country," Maite Bueno, of Hialeah, offers. "He’s not only going to make America great again, he’s for everybody. People need to wake up!”

At the time, President Donald Trump’s disapproval rating was hovering at 50 percent, a historic high for a president in his first 100 days in office. His approval rating was at just 43 percent.

Lucy Reyes, speaking with a strong Cuban accent, had a message for the half who disapproved: “He’s not the person that people think he is. He’s a good president.”

"The American public wanted a different kind of president. And there's no question Donald Trump is a different kind of president."

- Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell
That was Day 44 of the Trump administration, which to no one’s surprise who followed the campaign had already been marked by extreme acrimony between Trump and Democrats, Trump and Republicans, Trump and the FBI, Trump and federal agencies like the EPA, Trump and foreign leaders and, especially, Trump and the media.

Days before, Trump had tweeted out, “FAKE NEWS media knowingly doesn’t tell the truth! A great danger to our country!”

The president was trying to redirect attention away from allegations of collusion with Russia to influence the electorate, or otherwise steal the election from Democrat Hillary Clinton.

“The real story,” Trump tweeted, “is all of the illegal leaks of classified or other information. It is a total witch hunt!”

0222 bannonExpand / Contract
Bannon is seen by Trump's base as the key to his "America First" strategy. (Associated Press)
The Washington establishment hadn’t seen anything like this before.

"The American public wanted a different kind of president. And there's no question Donald Trump is a different kind of president," said Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

Often fed by anonymous sources from the DC establishment, the media struck back with juicy reports of constant infighting and incompetence.

Thousands of jobs went unfilled in the executive branch. There was a botched effort to repeal and replace ObamaCare, after the Republican-led Congress had voted 62 times on such bills while President Barack Obama was in office. Charges of nepotism as he elevated his daughter Ivanka and her husband Jared Kushner to important White House posts. Top White House strategist Steve Bannon reportedly clashed with Chief of Staff Reince Priebus.

In late March, a Washington Post headline blared: “Trump’s first 100 days: A big failure, and a new low in the polls.”

keslerpic2Expand / Contract
Trump's performance has surprised Kesler, who sees positive signs in the nascent administration.
But supporters Fox News has kept in touch with since the campaign were unwavering as Trump approached the 100 day mark of April 29. And this week, the Washington Post's own survey showed that Trump would still best Clinton if a new election were held today.

That may surprise the same critics who predicted he would lose Nov. 8, but it doesn't shock his supporters.

“I think he’s doing really good,” said Bob Holmes, who was featured in global coverage after he offered free Trump tattoos ahead of the New Hampshire primary in February 2016.

Holmes had never voted before Trump came along, because he saw in the billionaire real estate developer a candidate who spoke directly to ordinary Americans. Holmes says he has kept an eye on developments over the first 100 days of Trump’s presidency.

“A few things he’s gotten knocked down," Holmes said. "He’s fighting the fight. The major thing I saw, before he was even sworn in, he was saving thousands of jobs.”

Other supporters were equally patient, even after the failure to repeal and replace ObamaCare. In late March, a woman told a local news reporter at a Trump rally in Lansing, Mich., “I think he’s going to totally repeal it. The press has gotten it wrong all along. And they’ve gotten it wrong again because he knows exactly what he’s doing.”

Such faith is unsurprising with his most ardent backers. But as Trump closed in on the benchmark, there has also been a surprising, albeit tepid, shift in support among mainstream academics and political observers, and even some of his harshest critics in Congress.

In May 2016, as Trump clinched the nomination, Charles Kesler, professor of government at Claremont-McKenna College in Southern California, predicted what a Trump administration would look like.

“It is not the overbearing executive so much as the haphazard one, adrift much of the time, that is the risk," Kesler wrote. "Think Arnold Schwarzenegger in California, or Jesse “the Body” Ventura in Minnesota… Trump is likely to prove less involved than Silvio Berlusconi in Italy, also a billionaire media personality with a brand.”

But nearly a year later, Kesler has upgraded his assessment.

“I'd say I’ve shifted my view to the upside,” said Kesler. “There's more consistency in his fundamental issue positions than I feared at one point there might be. He's working immigration, trade, deregulation, all the things he has been consistently pushing for many years. There are Trump positions and he's making steady progress and I'm encouraged by that. It's possible he could be a successful and even much-admired president.”

Speaking on MSNBC before the election, Harvard historian Niall Ferguson painted a grim picture of the alternatives confronting the American electorate.

“The choice in 2016 is between SNAFU," he said, applying the acronym for situation normal all fouled up to a Clinton victory, "or FUBAR," he continued, using another acronym loosely translated as 'fouled up beyond all recognition.'

"A lot of people are attracted to FUBAR, because they just can't stand any more SNAFU,” Ferguson said.

Ferguson’s pessimistic prognosis changed in early April, after the Trump administration ordered two Navy destroyers to fire 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles at Shayrat airfield, from which Syrian President Bashar Assad was said to have launched his sarin nerve gas attack on the town of Khan Sheikhoun, killing 87 people a week before.

“I think we can now discern the beginning of the improvement in U.S. foreign policy we have been waiting for ever since President Obama packed his bags," he wrote. "A new sheriff is in town and he doesn’t fire blanks.”

Even Trump's two most vocal Republican critics on Capitol Hill praised the president after his unamiguous message to Syria was sent.

“Unlike the previous administration, President Trump confronted a pivotal moment in Syria and took action,” Senators Lindsey Graham and John McCain said in a joint statement. “Building on this credible first step, we must finally learn the lessons of history and ensure that tactical success leads to strategic progress.”

Some experts are optimistic President Trump will do just that.

“I think he’s had more success than the media gives him credit for,” said Arthur Herman, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. “What we have is an American president who I think now gets that you have to act with force sparingly and judiciously, but in ways that send a message.”

The Syrian airstrikes led some critics to argue Trump was selling out on key campaign messages regarding the use of force abroad and nation-building. Herman disagrees.

“There is a fallacy among pundits, foreign policy experts and the media that military action and diplomatic action are somehow separate tracks," Herman said. "The idea that what Trump is doing is reversing himself by getting involved is incorrect. This was clearly a message about the use of weapons of mass destruction, and making it clear that, unlike his predecessor, he is not afraid to use military muscle to force the diplomatic track forward.”

As for Holmes, the tattoo artist and Trump supporter, the messages from Syria and North Korea are clear.

“Syria was the right move," he said. "Maybe the rest of the world is pissed off, but maybe that’s the point. The rest of the world didn’t respect or fear us. Nobody is stepping up and stopping North Korea. We shouldn’t have to put up with the short little fat dude [North Korean leader Kim Jong Un]. He needs to be put in his place.

"That’s why Trump was voted in," Holmes said. "He’s showing everybody we’re not going to take it anymore.”

Yet, with Trump's muscular foreign policy manifested in tough talk directed at Syria and North Korea, some critics fear his administration could be leading us into World War III. Not so, says Kesler.

"He’s got sober, scholarly, not militant generals who he is listening to, a lot. They don’t want to get into a war over Syria or North Korea,” said Kesler.

There is another concern about Trump that has recently taken hold among some supporters who were initially drawn to his pledge to "drain the swamp," and take on Washington's establishment. Bannon, the face of Trump's populist broadside at the clubby culture of Capitol Hill insiders, has reportedly clashed of late with Kushner and Trump's chief economic adviser, Gary Cohn.

Kushner and Cohn are seen by critics as globalists out to undermine the message and platform that propelled Trump to the White House. If they and not Bannon have the commander-in-chief's ear, some fear, the Trump administration could take a leftward turn.

Holmes and other long-time supporters, like Jack Morgan, a Trump campaigner from southwestern Virginia, don’t buy it.

“I can honestly say I'm only seeing it on social media and TV,” Morgan said. “His actual base, the ones that really were behind him, and not just came along for the ride, are still solidly behind him, at least in SWVA. He's already begun cutting EPA regulations for the coal industry and jobs are coming back so people are happy with that. I feel sure the ones complaining were never his base.”

Kesler sees Trump as adjusting pragmatically to the position.

“He started out as a complete Washington amateur, and he has come to rely on people who have been there before more than he thought he would do,” said Kesler. “But he’s still being pretty selective about who he admits into his administration.”

Herman dismissed claims the administration's early growing pains are tantamount to chaos.

“For big, complex issues it’s taken more effort than Trump realized, but he has patience to put the deal together,” said Herman. “The media narrative that things are going haywire completely misses the mark.”

Kesler sees something deeper going on with Trump, also missed by the mainstream media narrative.

“He's got to rely on the broader conservative movement more than he did during the campaign," Kesler said. "I'm impressed more and more by how he's taking the Republican Party back to its former self, back before the Cold War and before the modern conservative movement from the '50s and '60s, to the Republican Party that peaked in the 1920s.”

That GOP pushed high protective tariffs, restricted immigration and called for assimilation. The pre-Cold War Republicans also pushed internal infrastructure projects, and appointed judges who were activist in defending the Constitution, and resisted foreign entanglements.

“Anti-Communism changed conservative foreign policy,” said Kesler. “And libertarianism changed Republican affection for high tariffs. He is fusing the Republican Party with some elements of the conservative movement, and he might change the movement more than it changes him.”

In doing so, Trump is proving he is the outsider some supporters had hoped for, said Herman.

“Trump is not a politician. He was not born and bred in the Washington cabbage patch,” said Herman. “What we may find as time goes on with ObamaCare, tax cuts, the question of the Mexico border wall, that in all these kinds of questions Trump has a better idea of how to put together a deal than Republicans and Democrats.”

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by freedomforall »

Some forum members deem Trump as a piece of garbage one way or another and are seriously bent on having every Trump supporter capitulate to that way of thinking.
What motivates such behavior in some LDS members, let alone the standard hatemongers running the streets?
Is this type of behavior any better than the behavior ranted about? History shows that every POTUS we have ever had has ticked somebody off in one way or another.
Have we heard this same ranting coming from these searchers of dirty laundry of Trump also finding dirty laundry against Obama, Kennedy, Nixon, Clinton or Roosevelt?
Are these continued attacks going to be consistently posted for the next four years....and isn't this a total waste and admission to either kindling hatred, enmity, or prejudice in others or just a plain, profound case of OCD?

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by Silver »

freedomforall wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 7:53 pm Some forum members deem Trump as a piece of garbage one way or another and are seriously bent on having every Trump supporter capitulate to that way of thinking.
What motivates such behavior in some LDS members, let alone the standard hatemongers running the streets?
Is this type of behavior any better than the behavior ranted about? History shows that every POTUS we have ever had has ticked somebody off in one way or another.
Have we heard this same ranting coming from these searchers of dirty laundry of Trump also finding dirty laundry against Obama, Kennedy, Nixon, Clinton or Roosevelt?
Are these continued attacks going to be consistently posted for the next four years....and isn't this a total waste and admission to either kindling hatred, enmity, or prejudice in others or just a plain, profound case of OCD?
If I thought you were asking sincere, thoughtful questions, I would undertake to respond. However, you and eddie are masters at ignoring the painful truths of Trump and his administration so I will continue what I have been doing the last several months: starting and posting in my own threads.

eddie
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2405

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by eddie »

GORDON B. HINCKLEY

" But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally. Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.

One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents. Are you in violation?

But modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace” (D&C 98:16).


And Moroni “rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.

“And he fastened on his headplate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren” (Alma 46:12–13).

It is clear from these and other writings that there are times and circumstances when nations are justified, in fact have an obligation, to fight for family, for liberty, and against tyranny, threat, and oppression.

How to you feel about the innocent babies, children and Mothers being massacred by terroists? How do you reconcile this?
Please give me a clear and concise answer...

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by Silver »

eddie wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 9:36 pm GORDON B. HINCKLEY

" But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally. Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.

One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents. Are you in violation?

But modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace” (D&C 98:16).


And Moroni “rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.

“And he fastened on his headplate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren” (Alma 46:12–13).

It is clear from these and other writings that there are times and circumstances when nations are justified, in fact have an obligation, to fight for family, for liberty, and against tyranny, threat, and oppression.

How to you feel about the innocent babies, children and Mothers being massacred by terroists? How do you reconcile this?
Please give me a clear and concise answer...
Just as I thought.

eddie
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2405

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by eddie »

Silver wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 9:45 pm
eddie wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 9:36 pm GORDON B. HINCKLEY

" But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally. Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.

One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents. Are you in violation?

But modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace” (D&C 98:16).


And Moroni “rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.

“And he fastened on his headplate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren” (Alma 46:12–13).

It is clear from these and other writings that there are times and circumstances when nations are justified, in fact have an obligation, to fight for family, for liberty, and against tyranny, threat, and oppression.

How to you feel about the innocent babies, children and Mothers being massacred by terroists? How do you reconcile this?
Please give me a clear and concise answer...
Just as I thought.
https://youtu.be/8tMHY2w9Kzs

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by freedomforall »

Silver wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 9:45 pm
eddie wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 9:36 pm GORDON B. HINCKLEY

" But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally. Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.

One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents. Are you in violation?

But modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace” (D&C 98:16).


And Moroni “rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.

“And he fastened on his headplate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren” (Alma 46:12–13).

It is clear from these and other writings that there are times and circumstances when nations are justified, in fact have an obligation, to fight for family, for liberty, and against tyranny, threat, and oppression.

How to you feel about the innocent babies, children and Mothers being massacred by terrorists? How do you reconcile this?
Please give me a clear and concise answer...
Just as I thought.
There needs to be opposition in all things. It will be a cold day in Hades when a few here capitulate to the type of deliberate contentious matter being presented incessantly as a Christ-like practice.

Start all the protest threads you want, they're a real hoot, and a way to expose one's Mon-Sat character. Sundays, well, Sundays are for a :| and keeping everyone else guessing.

Do you believe in the hereafter? Because if you're hereafter the same thing I'm hereafter, you'll be hereafter I'm gone. So from now on, don't stay here after.

Ezra
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4357
Location: Not telling

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by Ezra »

eddie wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 9:36 pm GORDON B. HINCKLEY

" But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally. [/color] They however don't know more then god. God gave us very specific guidelines concerning war in d&c 98. We who have a prophet of god would be the very frist to know if a war was justified by him and we should be involved. Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.

One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, We believe in being subject to kings, presidents.Are you in violation?

But [/color] anytime someone says but they negate everything they just said. So we believe in being subject to kings and presidents except when they proclaim wars that god doesn't endorse. modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace” (D&C 98:16).


And Moroni “rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.

“And he fastened on his headplate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren” (Alma 46:12–13).

It is clear from these and other writings that there are times and circumstances when nations are justified, in fact have an obligation, to fight for family, for liberty, and against tyranny, threat, and oppression.

How to you feel about the innocent babies, children and Mothers being massacred by terroists? How do you reconcile this?
Please give me a clear and concise answer...

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by Silver »

freedomforall wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 10:55 pm
Silver wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 9:45 pm
eddie wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 9:36 pm GORDON B. HINCKLEY

" But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally. Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.

One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents. Are you in violation?

But modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace” (D&C 98:16).


And Moroni “rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.

“And he fastened on his headplate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren” (Alma 46:12–13).

It is clear from these and other writings that there are times and circumstances when nations are justified, in fact have an obligation, to fight for family, for liberty, and against tyranny, threat, and oppression.

How to you feel about the innocent babies, children and Mothers being massacred by terrorists? How do you reconcile this?
Please give me a clear and concise answer...
Just as I thought.
There needs to be opposition in all things. It will be a cold day in Hades when a few here capitulate to the type of deliberate contentious matter being presented incessantly as a Christ-like practice.

Start all the protest threads you want, they're a real hoot, and a way to expose one's Mon-Sat character. Sundays, well, Sundays are for a :| and keeping everyone else guessing.

Do you believe in the hereafter? Because if you're hereafter the same thing I'm hereafter, you'll be hereafter I'm gone. So from now on, don't stay here after.
Which is worse, Trump killing innocent people or me obnoxiously reminding you of Trump killing innocent people?

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by freedomforall »

Silver wrote: May 4th, 2017, 5:12 am
freedomforall wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 10:55 pm
Silver wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 9:45 pm
eddie wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 9:36 pm GORDON B. HINCKLEY

" But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally. Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.

One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents. Are you in violation?

But modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace” (D&C 98:16).


And Moroni “rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.

“And he fastened on his headplate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren” (Alma 46:12–13).

It is clear from these and other writings that there are times and circumstances when nations are justified, in fact have an obligation, to fight for family, for liberty, and against tyranny, threat, and oppression.

How to you feel about the innocent babies, children and Mothers being massacred by terrorists? How do you reconcile this?
Please give me a clear and concise answer...
Just as I thought.
There needs to be opposition in all things. It will be a cold day in Hades when a few here capitulate to the type of deliberate contentious matter being presented incessantly as a Christ-like practice.

Start all the protest threads you want, they're a real hoot, and a way to expose one's Mon-Sat character. Sundays, well, Sundays are for a :| and keeping everyone else guessing.

Do you believe in the hereafter? Because if you're hereafter the same thing I'm hereafter, you'll be hereafter I'm gone. So from now on, don't stay here after.
Which is worse, Trump killing innocent people or me obnoxiously reminding you of Trump killing innocent people?
Let's put it this way. The wonderful thing about TV is that one can flip through many stations or merely push a mute button so that, by choice, unwanted material can't be heard or seen depending on the need.
This website has a nice feature for making it so that all posts from any one poster can no longer be seen or read unless purposely selected. So I think I'll use the wisdom God gave me to enter your name onto this feature called a foe list. It's better for me and it's better for you. It's too bad that you have to act in such a way as to cause others to, out of necessity, mute the unneeded and repetitious, obnoxious, at your own admission, messages.

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by Silver »

freedomforall wrote: May 4th, 2017, 5:30 pm
Silver wrote: May 4th, 2017, 5:12 am
freedomforall wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 10:55 pm
Silver wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 9:45 pm

Just as I thought.
There needs to be opposition in all things. It will be a cold day in Hades when a few here capitulate to the type of deliberate contentious matter being presented incessantly as a Christ-like practice.

Start all the protest threads you want, they're a real hoot, and a way to expose one's Mon-Sat character. Sundays, well, Sundays are for a :| and keeping everyone else guessing.

Do you believe in the hereafter? Because if you're hereafter the same thing I'm hereafter, you'll be hereafter I'm gone. So from now on, don't stay here after.
Which is worse, Trump killing innocent people or me obnoxiously reminding you of Trump killing innocent people?
Let's put it this way. The wonderful thing about TV is that one can flip through many stations or merely push a mute button so that, by choice, unwanted material can't be heard or seen depending on the need.
This website has a nice feature for making it so that all posts from any one poster can no longer be seen or read unless purposely selected. So I think I'll use the wisdom God gave me to enter your name onto this feature called a foe list. It's better for me and it's better for you. It's too bad that you have to act in such a way as to cause others to, out of necessity, mute the unneeded and repetitious, obnoxious, at your own admission, messages.
Be my guest. I also note that you refused to answer the very simple question.

OCDMOM
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1406

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by OCDMOM »

WAIT.... let me grab some popcorn.

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by Silver »

OCDMOM wrote: May 4th, 2017, 8:56 pm WAIT.... let me grab some popcorn.
Nothing to see here. The other contestant retired from the field when the questions got too tough.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by freedomforall »

OCDMOM wrote: May 4th, 2017, 8:56 pm WAIT.... let me grab some popcorn.
Do you like the Orville Beds N' Rockers brand of popcorn? Or buttery theater style?


Image

Ezra
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4357
Location: Not telling

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by Ezra »

eddie wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 9:36 pm GORDON B. HINCKLEY

" But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally. Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.


One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents. Are you in violation?

But modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace” (D&C 98:16).

And Moroni “rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.

“And he fastened on his headplate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren” (Alma 46:12–13).

It is clear from these and other writings that there are times and circumstances when nations are justified, in fact have an obligation, to fight for family, for liberty, and against tyranny, threat, and oppression.

How to you feel about the innocent babies, children and Mothers being massacred by terroists? How do you reconcile this?
Please give me a clear and concise answer...

Innocent babies children and mothers being massacred by terrorists. Are you referring to trump and the usa military or Muslim exteremist? I would imagine the innocent there feel the same as the innocent anywhere. Dosent matter what country they happen to live on.

You said.

One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents. Are you in violation?

But modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace” (D&C 98:16).

So I ask you this. When 2 things are opposite which is true?? Do we renounce war proclaim peace? Or do we subject ourselfs to a president who unjustly murders others proclaims war on other nations. And dosent follow the the guidelines god gave us In d&c 98 that you just quoted part of saying to renounce war?



You quoted.

GORDON B. HINCKLEY

" But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally.

(They however don't have a prophet) (d&c 98 says that god will command us to go to war if it is his will and just. We with a living prophet will be the frist people to know if that is gods will with his living mouthpiece as the head of the church!!!!!!!!)

Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.

(They do....... but we don't. And even if I made the choice to serve in the armed forces. I would not let that obligation trump my obligations to god and following his guidance. )

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by freedomforall »

Ezra wrote: May 4th, 2017, 9:59 pm
eddie wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 9:36 pm GORDON B. HINCKLEY

" But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally. Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.


One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents. Are you in violation?

But modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace” (D&C 98:16).

And Moroni “rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.

“And he fastened on his headplate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren” (Alma 46:12–13).

It is clear from these and other writings that there are times and circumstances when nations are justified, in fact have an obligation, to fight for family, for liberty, and against tyranny, threat, and oppression.

How to you feel about the innocent babies, children and Mothers being massacred by terroists? How do you reconcile this?
Please give me a clear and concise answer...

Innocent babies children and mothers being massacred by terrorists. Are you referring to trump and the usa military or Muslim exteremist? I would imagine the innocent there feel the same as the innocent anywhere. Dosent matter what country they happen to live on.

You said.

One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents. Are you in violation?

But modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace” (D&C 98:16).

So I ask you this. When 2 things are opposite which is true?? Do we renounce war proclaim peace? Or do we subject ourselfs to a president who unjustly murders others proclaims war on other nations. And dosent follow the the guidelines god gave us In d&c 98 that you just quoted part of saying to renounce war?



You quoted.

GORDON B. HINCKLEY

" But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally.

(They however don't have a prophet) (d&c 98 says that god will command us to go to war if it is his will and just. We with a living prophet will be the frist people to know if that is gods will with his living mouthpiece as the head of the church!!!!!!!!)

Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.

(They do....... but we don't. And even if I made the choice to serve in the armed forces. I would not let that obligation trump my obligations to god and following his guidance. )
Please explain how the war in heaven was wrong.
Please explain how wrong the Battle of Armageddon will be. Rev. 16:16
Please explain how wrong the Battle of Gog and Magog will be. D&C 88:111–116).

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by Silver »

freedomforall wrote: May 5th, 2017, 12:43 am
Ezra wrote: May 4th, 2017, 9:59 pm
eddie wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 9:36 pm GORDON B. HINCKLEY

" But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally. Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.


One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents. Are you in violation?

But modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace” (D&C 98:16).

And Moroni “rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.

“And he fastened on his headplate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren” (Alma 46:12–13).

It is clear from these and other writings that there are times and circumstances when nations are justified, in fact have an obligation, to fight for family, for liberty, and against tyranny, threat, and oppression.

How to you feel about the innocent babies, children and Mothers being massacred by terroists? How do you reconcile this?
Please give me a clear and concise answer...

Innocent babies children and mothers being massacred by terrorists. Are you referring to trump and the usa military or Muslim exteremist? I would imagine the innocent there feel the same as the innocent anywhere. Dosent matter what country they happen to live on.

You said.

One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents. Are you in violation?

But modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace” (D&C 98:16).

So I ask you this. When 2 things are opposite which is true?? Do we renounce war proclaim peace? Or do we subject ourselfs to a president who unjustly murders others proclaims war on other nations. And dosent follow the the guidelines god gave us In d&c 98 that you just quoted part of saying to renounce war?



You quoted.

GORDON B. HINCKLEY

" But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally.

(They however don't have a prophet) (d&c 98 says that god will command us to go to war if it is his will and just. We with a living prophet will be the frist people to know if that is gods will with his living mouthpiece as the head of the church!!!!!!!!)

Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.

(They do....... but we don't. And even if I made the choice to serve in the armed forces. I would not let that obligation trump my obligations to god and following his guidance. )
Please explain how the war in heaven was wrong.
Please explain how wrong the Battle of Armageddon will be. Rev. 16:16
Please explain how wrong the Battle of Gog and Magog will be. D&C 88:111–116).
Why do you bother to add the word "please" to all your requests? Which is worse, FFA, Donald Trump killing innocent people or Ezra thinking Donald Trump should not kill innocent people?

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by freedomforall »

Our POTUS and War.

War in heaven....which side was Trump on?

Battle of Armageddon....will Trump live long enough to participate in, or even instigate this huge battle?

Battle of Gog and Magog....now just what could Trump do to get involved with this one? Will he become Satan's right-hand man and send executive orders/instructions via immortal carrier Pigeons from wherever he is at the time so as to ensure people die per his will?
Or will he have gone straight and joined up with Michael, the Archangel and his armies to go against Satan and his armies?

eddie
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2405

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by eddie »

freedomforall wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 10:55 pm
Silver wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 9:45 pm
eddie wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 9:36 pm GORDON B. HINCKLEY

" But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally. Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.

One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents. Are you in violation?

But modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace” (D&C 98:16).


And Moroni “rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.

“And he fastened on his headplate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren” (Alma 46:12–13).

It is clear from these and other writings that there are times and circumstances when nations are justified, in fact have an obligation, to fight for family, for liberty, and against tyranny, threat, and oppression.

How to you feel about the innocent babies, children and Mothers being massacred by terrorists? How do you reconcile this?
Please give me a clear and concise answer...
Just as I thought.
There needs to be opposition in all things. It will be a cold day in Hades when a few here capitulate to the type of deliberate contentious matter being presented incessantly as a Christ-like practice.

Start all the protest threads you want, they're a real hoot, and a way to expose one's Mon-Sat character. Sundays, well, Sundays are for a :| and keeping everyone else guessing.

Do you believe in the hereafter? Because if you're hereafter the same thing I'm hereafter, you'll be hereafter I'm gone. So from now on, don't stay here after.
I worry about the hereafter, everytime I walk into a room, I wonder what I'm hereafter. You know, " To the best of my recollection I don't remember." :D

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by freedomforall »

eddie wrote: May 5th, 2017, 6:21 pmI worry about the hereafter, everytime I walk into a room, I wonder what I'm hereafter. You know, " To the best of my recollection I don't remember." :D
If I could remember, I'd remember to remember those things I can no longer remember, remembering how important it is to remember them, and that by not remembering things I should remember creates a vacuum causing one to forget things to be remembered. All this, if I remember correctly.

Ezra
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4357
Location: Not telling

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by Ezra »

freedomforall wrote: May 5th, 2017, 12:43 am
Ezra wrote: May 4th, 2017, 9:59 pm
eddie wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 9:36 pm GORDON B. HINCKLEY

" But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally. Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.


One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents. Are you in violation?

But modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace” (D&C 98:16).

And Moroni “rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.

“And he fastened on his headplate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren” (Alma 46:12–13).

It is clear from these and other writings that there are times and circumstances when nations are justified, in fact have an obligation, to fight for family, for liberty, and against tyranny, threat, and oppression.

How to you feel about the innocent babies, children and Mothers being massacred by terroists? How do you reconcile this?
Please give me a clear and concise answer...

Innocent babies children and mothers being massacred by terrorists. Are you referring to trump and the usa military or Muslim exteremist? I would imagine the innocent there feel the same as the innocent anywhere. Dosent matter what country they happen to live on.

You said.

One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents. Are you in violation?

But modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace” (D&C 98:16).

So I ask you this. When 2 things are opposite which is true?? Do we renounce war proclaim peace? Or do we subject ourselfs to a president who unjustly murders others proclaims war on other nations. And dosent follow the the guidelines god gave us In d&c 98 that you just quoted part of saying to renounce war?



You quoted.

GORDON B. HINCKLEY

" But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally.

(They however don't have a prophet) (d&c 98 says that god will command us to go to war if it is his will and just. We with a living prophet will be the frist people to know if that is gods will with his living mouthpiece as the head of the church!!!!!!!!)

Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.

(They do....... but we don't. And even if I made the choice to serve in the armed forces. I would not let that obligation trump my obligations to god and following his guidance. )
Please explain how the war in heaven was wrong.
Please explain how wrong the Battle of Armageddon will be. Rev. 16:16
Please explain how wrong the Battle of Gog and Magog will be. D&C 88:111–116).

Please explain why it is right to kill innocents in other countrys?? Where is the commandment from god that he promised he would give in a just war in d&c 98????

Was there death in the war in heaven? Or was that war a discussion? Where innocent people killed in the war in heaven from both sides??

You know just as well as anyone ffa that god has rules. He has given us those rules concerning war. There is just wars. There are unjust wars. Why are you trying to defend a unjust war? Why are you trying to imply that it's somehow good?

I bet that reminds you of a scripture in 2 nephi 28

I support just wars. I speak out against unjust wars. You should too. Because some war is just doesn't make all wars just. Even if you like the person that is leading it. If you can prove that trump is just in this war. I would join you in support.

Please prove it.

eddie
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2405

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by eddie »

freedomforall wrote: May 5th, 2017, 8:52 pm
eddie wrote: May 5th, 2017, 6:21 pmI worry about the hereafter, everytime I walk into a room, I wonder what I'm hereafter. You know, " To the best of my recollection I don't remember." :D
If I could remember, I'd remember to remember those things I can no longer remember, remembering how important it is to remember them, and that by not remembering things I should remember creates a vacuum causing one to forget things to be remembered. All this, if I remember correctly.
:ymapplause: ( Where am I?)

I bought this brain formula at the health food store that claims to restore your memory, I forgot to take it... :-o

eddie
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2405

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by eddie »

Ezra wrote: May 5th, 2017, 9:39 pm
freedomforall wrote: May 5th, 2017, 12:43 am
Ezra wrote: May 4th, 2017, 9:59 pm
eddie wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 9:36 pm GORDON B. HINCKLEY

" But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally. Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.


One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents. Are you in violation?

But modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace” (D&C 98:16).

And Moroni “rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.

“And he fastened on his headplate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren” (Alma 46:12–13).

It is clear from these and other writings that there are times and circumstances when nations are justified, in fact have an obligation, to fight for family, for liberty, and against tyranny, threat, and oppression.

How to you feel about the innocent babies, children and Mothers being massacred by terroists? How do you reconcile this?
Please give me a clear and concise answer...

Innocent babies children and mothers being massacred by terrorists. Are you referring to trump and the usa military or Muslim exteremist? I would imagine the innocent there feel the same as the innocent anywhere. Dosent matter what country they happen to live on.

You said.

One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents. Are you in violation?

But modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace” (D&C 98:16).

So I ask you this. When 2 things are opposite which is true?? Do we renounce war proclaim peace? Or do we subject ourselfs to a president who unjustly murders others proclaims war on other nations. And dosent follow the the guidelines god gave us In d&c 98 that you just quoted part of saying to renounce war?



You quoted.

GORDON B. HINCKLEY

" But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally.

(They however don't have a prophet) (d&c 98 says that god will command us to go to war if it is his will and just. We with a living prophet will be the frist people to know if that is gods will with his living mouthpiece as the head of the church!!!!!!!!)

Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.

(They do....... but we don't. And even if I made the choice to serve in the armed forces. I would not let that obligation trump my obligations to god and following his guidance. )
Please explain how the war in heaven was wrong.
Please explain how wrong the Battle of Armageddon will be. Rev. 16:16
Please explain how wrong the Battle of Gog and Magog will be. D&C 88:111–116).

Please explain why it is right to kill innocents in other countrys?? Where is the commandment from god that he promised he would give in a just war in d&c 98????

Was there death in the war in heaven? Or was that war a discussion? Where innocent people killed in the war in heaven from both sides??

You know just as well as anyone ffa that god has rules. He has given us those rules concerning war. There is just wars. There are unjust wars. Why are you trying to defend a unjust war? Why are you trying to imply that it's somehow good?

I bet that reminds you of a scripture in 2 nephi 28

I support just wars. I speak out against unjust wars. You should too. Because some war is just doesn't make all wars just. Even if you like the person that is leading it. If you can prove that trump is just in this war. I would join you in support.

Please prove it. HUH?

Ezra
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4357
Location: Not telling

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by Ezra »

Huh???? Proof that trumps actions of bombing other countries is (just) according to God.

Bet ya can't!!!

But I can prove that what he did was not just.

Ps. I was speaking to ffa. But since you felt the need to reply with "huh?? " then I will give you the same challenge.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Trump supporters see a plan...

Post by freedomforall »

Ezra wrote: May 5th, 2017, 10:19 pm Huh???? Proof that trumps actions of bombing other countries is (just) according to God.

Bet ya can't!!!

But I can prove that what he did was not just.

Ps. I was speaking to ffa. But since you felt the need to reply with "huh?? " then I will give you the same challenge.
Just like there had to be some putz that would turn sour and become Satan so we gullible mortals could be suckered in to doing evil things from time to time, there also has to be some warmongers in place in order for prophecy to be fulfilled. There are the good guys and the bad guys, all doing their part to cause the destruction of mankind as it has done throughout history. The good guys only stay good for a short period because Satan has so much power, and the remaining good guys have to walk on eggshells and their tiptoes so as to not offend the bad guys and cause war.
I do not condone war...but I believe if a man has to go to war to suit some greedy turkey then he better make up his mind to kick some butt, because the only person that cares about you...is you, or should be.
Throughout the book of Mormon we read that the righteous, good guys always prepared for war; they trained hard, learned how to swiftly kill an enemy and to fight like wild animals when needed.
I don't read anywhere where God told them they were doing wrong for learning how to kill with whatever tool they had to preserve their right to live, their freedom, wives, homes and faith. God did tell them, however, not to take the first offense or he would put them into the hands of their enemies.
Whether it be Trump or anyone else from now on, someone has to keep stirring the proverbial pot so that the final battles can take place. This is a sad way to look at it, but it is true. War has been prevalent throughout history because Old Scratch loves it, and we gullible humans, those having the chains of Satan wrapped around them are his puppets in the plan to take over the world. The righteous have to keep the good fight all the way down the line or fall into the pit along side the rest of the red faced, horned creatures under Satan's control.

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