Church Growth Rate, Latest Statistics

[EmmaLee]

Regarding The Hastening, AKA the policy of sending 18-yo Elders and 19-yo Sisters into the mission field, has it had a net positive effect on the lives of those who answered the call?

That's a tough question. Our sons served missions (last one got back in 2015, so fairly recently), they finished them, and they have remained active in the Church. They learned a LOT on their missions, but most of it was not what many might think. They suffered quite a bit while on their missions, because despite what some idealists want to think/believe - it really IS all about the numbers. Their whole missions revolved around numbers and how many people they could baptize. The pressure was insane - about as non-Christ-like as you can imagine - and Sec.121 had, seemingly, never been read by or understood by most, including mission presidents. Other negatives were - getting things stolen quite often by other missionaries; bullying to the extreme if you were at all different than whatever the current "norm" was in any particular area; seriously bad influences (mainly other missionaries - I won't go into detail), etc.

Our sons were exposed to some pretty heinous things while serving their missions - not so much by the world or people they were teaching, but by other missionaries, members, and especially one of their mission presidents (a few months after my son got home, his recently released mission president was called as a Seventy in GenCon, and I literally could not raise my hand to sustain him - given what I knew of his true character from interactions I had with him while my son was in his mission).

Of the 11 boys from the two wards in our town who have left on missions in the last 4 years, only THREE have stayed the whole 2 years. ALL of the other 8 boys came home early. ALL of the boys who left soon after their 18th birthday (like within 2 months of turning 18 or graduating from high school) came home early - every single one of them. How's that for a statistic. The 3 boys who stayed the whole 2 years waited till they were almost 19 to go (one was 19 when he left).

I was in the FB groups of our son's missions (where parents, mostly moms, would post about their child's experiences, etc.), and the VAST majority of missionaries who came home did so because they were forced to go on their missions in the first place by parents who, apparently, didn't listen very well to the entirety of Pres. Monson's words on the matter (quoted elsewhere on this thread) - and felt that in order to "follow the prophet" or appear righteous, they had to force their barely 18 year old child to go live with strangers in a different part of the world, some speaking a foreign language (that of course they didn't know how to speak), etc. In other words, the boys (because that's what they are) came home early because they didn't want to go in the first place (at least not as early as they were forced to), and they couldn't hack it. The latest one from our ward who came home early (after only being out just shy of 2 months), is the son of the 1st counselor in our stake presidency - and yes, his parents forced him to go right after he graduated from high school. He had made it well-known to all, quite publicly, that he had zero desire to serve a mission, but his high profile (stake presidency) daddy and old-Utah-family mommy wouldn't hear of it, and literally forced him to go. And that exact same situation applies to every single one of the boys who came home early.

Anyway, what a deal - these poor boys have to live with the stigma (which, of course, shouldn't exist, but let's be real, it does exist) of "coming home early", when they didn't want to go in the first place but were forced to by parents. Sad situation. Our boys learned lots of good things, too; I hasten (had to use the word at least once) to add - but I would not say their missions had a net positive affect on them. I will say they are still active and thriving in the Church and gospel, no thanks to having served missions.

[EmmaLee]

I heard my Stake President, with my very own ears, tell our ward that in a meeting with the Area Authority they were told that the Church has a goal to create more Stakes out of the existing ones by realigning wards with about 75% of the current number of active members, and reorganizing Stakes with only 6-8 units instead of the current average of 10. Last September my Stake and another Stake were formed into 3 Stakes, with a realignment of some of the wards to create a few new wards. With the same number of members, we now have 3 additional wards, a new Stake, and no new buildings were needed or planned. We share a Stake Center for conferences, and use a ward building for stake offices.

As a second witness, my son was in the other Stake, and was told the very same information by his Stake President. There was no mystery about how and why we were forming a new Stake, and dividing wards.

I am a thousand-plus miles from the Mormon Corridor. I can only imagine all the new wards and Stakes that can be created in more densely LDS-populated areas.

Sounds like we live in the same stake! ;) We did this exact same thing a few months ago - went from 2 stakes to 3, solely due to realigning boundaries, no new buildings, and 2 stakes share a stake center. We went from a stake of 14 units, to a stake of 5 wards and 4 branches, and a new stake being formed with already existing units. So our state has a new stake, but no new members. Maybe this is the new common core 'math' way of getting a higher number of stakes without a correspondingly higher number of members.

It reduces the workload of the Stake President - and makes them more effective. Have a heart for the poor leaders....

My husband is the stake clerk - I have a huge heart for the "poor leaders" - which has nothing to do with what Lizzy and I shared.

[EdGoble]

That happened several months ago in our stake. We used to have nine wards, three were super-wards and they realigned the boundaries and created two new wards for a total of 11 wards in the stake. Inside of the 11 wards is a adult singles ward and a Spanish ward.

The "same-ten-people" were split apart and we have brand new, previously overlooked presidencies.

It's been the greatest change for us! We went from 875 members to 355.

Breaking things up in various areas where necessary is something that has been done for decades.
They were doing it in South America in the early 90's when I was there.

When they were doing it, it was Jacob 5:48 that was given as the justification:

48 And it came to pass that the servant said unto his master: Is it not the loftiness of thy vineyard—have not the branches thereof overcome the roots which are good? And because the branches have overcome the roots thereof, behold they grew faster than the strength of the roots, taking strength unto themselves. Behold, I say, is not this the cause that the trees of thy vineyard have become corrupted?

And so, this practice of splitting things up is the "pruning" of the vineyard. But unfortunately, it says something for the state of the parts of the vineyard where this is done, that they are "corrupted" and need pruning.

[Older/wiser?]

Regarding The Hastening, AKA the policy of sending 18-yo Elders and 19-yo Sisters into the mission field, has it had a net positive effect on the lives of those who answered the call?

That's a tough question. Our sons served missions (last one got back in 2015, so fairly recently), they finished them, and they have remained active in the Church. They learned a LOT on their missions, but most of it was not what many might think. They suffered quite a bit while on their missions, because despite what some idealists want to think/believe - it really IS all about the numbers. Their whole missions revolved around numbers and how many people they could baptize. The pressure was insane - about as non-Christ-like as you can imagine - and Sec.121 had, seemingly, never been read by or understood by most, including mission presidents. Other negatives were - getting things stolen quite often by other missionaries; bullying to the extreme if you were at all different than whatever the current "norm" was in any particular area; seriously bad influences (mainly other missionaries - I won't go into detail), etc.

Our sons were exposed to some pretty heinous things while serving their missions - not so much by the world or people they were teaching, but by other missionaries, members, and especially one of their mission presidents (a few months after my son got home, his recently released mission president was called as a Seventy in GenCon, and I literally could not raise my hand to sustain him - given what I knew of his true character from interactions I had with him while my son was in his mission).

Of the 11 boys from the two wards in our town who have left on missions in the last 4 years, only THREE have stayed the whole 2 years (and 2 of them were mine). ALL of the other 8 boys came home early. ALL of the boys who left soon after their 18th birthday (like within 2 months of turning 18 or graduating from high school) came home early - every single one of them. How's that for a statistic. The 3 boys who stayed the whole 2 years waited till they were almost 19 to go (one was 19 when he left).

I was in the FB groups of our son's missions (where parents, mostly moms, would post about their child's experiences, etc.), and the VAST majority of missionaries who came home did so because they were forced to go on their missions in the first place by parents who, apparently, didn't listen very well to the entirety of Pres. Monson's words on the matter (quoted elsewhere on this thread) - and felt that in order to "follow the prophet" or appear righteous, they had to force their barely 18 year old child to go live with strangers in a different part of the world, some speaking a foreign language (that of course they didn't know how to speak), etc. In other words, the boys (because that's what they are) came home early because they didn't want to go in the first place (at least not as early as they were forced to), and they couldn't hack it. The latest one from our ward who came home early (after only being out just shy of 2 months), is the son of the 1st counselor in our stake presidency - and yes, his parents forced him to go right after he graduated from high school. He had made it well-known to all, quite publicly, that he had zero desire to serve a mission, but his high profile (stake presidency) daddy and old-Utah-family mommy wouldn't hear of it, and literally forced him to go. And that exact same situation applies to every single one of the boys who came home early.

Anyway, what a deal - these poor boys have to live with the stigma (which, of course, shouldn't exist, but let's be real, it does exist) of "coming home early", when they didn't want to go in the first place but were forced to by parents. Sad situation. Our boys learned lots of good things, too; I hasten (had to use the word at least once) to add - but I would not say their missions had a net positive affect on them. I will say they are still active and thriving in the Church and gospel, no thanks to having served missions.

Thanks for sharing Emma Lee, how sad for the boys that came home, hopefully at some point they will become converted. Glad your boys are active in spite of there missions. We had 2 sons serve one is straight as an arrow, the other so very lost. I've decided you don't pat yourself on the back if they stay the course nor do you beat yourself up if they through it away, heart breaking non the less.

[EmmaLee]

I hope you didn't interpret anything I said as "patting myself on the back", because I can assure you, that was not my intention or thought. In fact, there were times I almost wished my boys would have come home early so their suffering could end. They are good people despite their mother.

[Older/wiser?]

I hope you didn't interpret anything I said as "patting myself on the back", because I can assure you, that was not my intention or thought. In fact, there were times I almost wished my boys would have come home early so their suffering could end. They are good people despite their mother.

Absolutely not friend , I was referring to how I cope with our loss.

[butterfly]

I agree with your thoughts, but we are talking about teenagers being chided and reprimanded by some of the most "important" leaders in the church hierarchy. In my own life, I was taken into a room, alone, with a High Councilman, who then asked me what my husband and I were going to do to get our (RM, married with 4 children) son to start paying tithing again. He said that we needed to bear down in strong testimony and let him know the consequences of not paying tithing. I told him that we love our son, and allow him his agency.

Thank you, Lizzy, I've found through hard experience that this is kind of a blind spot among members. If we say the reason someone left the church was because of an abusive leader, immediately, you can see cognitive dissonance kicking in, and out comes the "it must have been something the person did wrong" reasoning. Even from our closest friends.

I can't say much, because I used to think this way, too, I'm ashamed to admit.

Finrock, I also believe that we are all ultimately responsible for our own actions, and I know my son's experience isn't necessarily representative of all missions and church leaders. I know he will still need to work through his feelings of betrayal, but when he left on his mission, he had nothing but love in his heart and a desire to serve the Lord, and he's no stranger to hard work and discipline, either. Even after losing his testimony, he still wanted to stay out just so he could serve the people, despite not feeling like he could honestly testify of the gospel anymore. He stuck it out for another 3 months like that before the stress of it all was just more than he could take. I'm pretty sure he hasn't told us everything that happened out there, probably out of respect for us, but what he did tell us was pretty revolting. Without qualification, he's a much better man than me.

I went on my mission when I was 21 and already had 3 years of college under my belt. This means that I was already accustomed to living away from home and had learned that I could question things I'd been taught growing up.
An 18 or 19 yr old is still often in the mindset that everything they've learned from their parents and leaders is right or true.

My mission president's first instruction to me when I arrived was to "lie to the members. They'll ask you how long you've been out and if you tell them that you're new to the mission, then they won't trust you with their nonmember friends because you're too inexperienced."

I was still under the hypnotism of the MTC that says "if you follow mission rules, you will have baptisms. If you break mission rules, God will not trust you with his children and so you won't have baptisms." So my 1st dinner appointment with members, I did exactly what the MP told me - I flat out lied about being new to the mission.

By the time dinner was over, I realized what I had done, apologized to the members and explained everything. They were bothered about the lie and it set the tone for the rest of my mission. I realized that just because a leader says it, does not make it true or right. That mission president later threatened to send me home, but that's a whole other story.

The point is, at 18 or 19 yrs of age, I wouldn't have had that clarity of thought in order to recognize that my MP was wrong. I think so many missionaries are too heavily indoctrinated to follow all those ridiculous rules that have nothing to do with righteousness, having the Spirit, or teaching people about Christ. The missionaries are driven to focus so much on these rules, which are nearly impossible to keep 100%, and so when they don't have baptisms, they're told it's their own fault.
It's no wonder they have anxiety.

[h_p]

^^^ this times 1000.

[h_p]

Anyway, what a deal - these poor boys have to live with the stigma (which, of course, shouldn't exist, but let's be real, it does exist) of "coming home early", when they didn't want to go in the first place but were forced to by parents. Sad situation. Our boys learned lots of good things, too; I hasten (had to use the word at least once) to add - but I would not say their missions had a net positive affect on them. I will say they are still active and thriving in the Church and gospel, no thanks to having served missions.

Thanks for sharing this, EmmaLee. I was writing a post about some of the things my son experienced on his mission, but realized it was turning into a big grievance-mongering, so I deleted it, but it's really heartbreaking to hear that other missions are as bad as my son's. I personally know some other missionaries who seem to be in great missions with wonderful MPs who are full charity and patience, so thankfully, it's not that way everywhere. It just makes me feel like "why MY son??"

To add insult to injury is the effect it's having on my other son. He's really torn right now about serving, and the time is coming quick. Seeing what happened to his brother makes him not want to go, but he realizes that pretty much brands a big "L" on his forehead forever. His worry is that he won't be able to find a good LDS girl to marry if he doesn't serve. Poor kid feels like he's being crushed from both sides. While he hasn't come outright and said it, some of the comments he's made make it sound like he feels like his only option is to just leave the church once he's graduated and on his own.

[WhereCanITurn4Peace]

His worry is that he won't be able to find a good LDS girl to marry if he doesn't serve. Poor kid feels like he's being crushed from both sides. While he hasn't come outright and said it, some of the comments he's made make it sound like he feels like his only option is to just leave the church once he's graduated and on his own.

I really feel for this generation growing up right now...as much as people like to gripe about the millennials, the youth are facing an incredibly wicked world and the crushing peer pressure that goes along with that.

My hope is your son realizes that there are many good LDS girls that will see his great qualities and that being a RM doesn't always make a guy the "perfect catch". What impressed me when I met my husband was his love of family, work ethic, artistic talent, spirituality​, personality and the great way he treated me on our dates (not to mention he's super cute, lol). Him coming home early from his mission was not a concern in any way, shape or form.

[Silver]

My sincere thanks to all who have participated in this thread so far. It's been good to read of the various experiences and views.

[Finrock]

I agree with your thoughts, but we are talking about teenagers being chided and reprimanded by some of the most "important" leaders in the church hierarchy. In my own life, I was taken into a room, alone, with a High Councilman, who then asked me what my husband and I were going to do to get our (RM, married with 4 children) son to start paying tithing again. He said that we needed to bear down in strong testimony and let him know the consequences of not paying tithing. I told him that we love our son, and allow him his agency.

Thank you, Lizzy, I've found through hard experience that this is kind of a blind spot among members. If we say the reason someone left the church was because of an abusive leader, immediately, you can see cognitive dissonance kicking in, and out comes the "it must have been something the person did wrong" reasoning. Even from our closest friends.

I can't say much, because I used to think this way, too, I'm ashamed to admit.

Finrock, I also believe that we are all ultimately responsible for our own actions, and I know my son's experience isn't necessarily representative of all missions and church leaders. I know he will still need to work through his feelings of betrayal, but when he left on his mission, he had nothing but love in his heart and a desire to serve the Lord, and he's no stranger to hard work and discipline, either. Even after losing his testimony, he still wanted to stay out just so he could serve the people, despite not feeling like he could honestly testify of the gospel anymore. He stuck it out for another 3 months like that before the stress of it all was just more than he could take. I'm pretty sure he hasn't told us everything that happened out there, probably out of respect for us, but what he did tell us was pretty revolting. Without qualification, he's a much better man than me.

I went on my mission when I was 21 and already had 3 years of college under my belt. This means that I was already accustomed to living away from home and had learned that I could question things I'd been taught growing up.
An 18 or 19 yr old is still often in the mindset that everything they've learned from their parents and leaders is right or true.

My mission president's first instruction to me when I arrived was to "lie to the members. They'll ask you how long you've been out and if you tell them that you're new to the mission, then they won't trust you with their nonmember friends because you're too inexperienced."

I was still under the hypnotism of the MTC that says "if you follow mission rules, you will have baptisms. If you break mission rules, God will not trust you with his children and so you won't have baptisms." So my 1st dinner appointment with members, I did exactly what the MP told me - I flat out lied about being new to the mission.

By the time dinner was over, I realized what I had done, apologized to the members and explained everything. They were bothered about the lie and it set the tone for the rest of my mission. I realized that just because a leader says it, does not make it true or right. That mission president later threatened to send me home, but that's a whole other story.

The point is, at 18 or 19 yrs of age, I wouldn't have had that clarity of thought in order to recognize that my MP was wrong. I think so many missionaries are too heavily indoctrinated to follow all those ridiculous rules that have nothing to do with righteousness, having the Spirit, or teaching people about Christ. The missionaries are driven to focus so much on these rules, which are nearly impossible to keep 100%, and so when they don't have baptisms, they're told it's their own fault.
It's no wonder they have anxiety.

I had a different experience as a missionary. I tried to obey the rules of the mission, but I also ignored many of them because I felt that what I was doing was better. I questioned my mission president when I was told I couldn't teach people from Muslim countries. It made absolutely no sense to my mind back then. But, I agreed to obey that rule when I found out that the Muslim investigators' lives were potentially in danger if I continued to teach them. I had the privilege of serving two months with my older brother in the same mission. He told me my first week in the country to be a friend first and forever and that really struck me and it stuck with me even to this day. It didn't matter if people joined the Church or not. My focus was to be a genuine friend to the people I was teaching. I got in to an argument with a sister missionary because I left my area to continue to visit a person I had befriended. She tried to tell me that because I was wearing a name tag I couldn't be a friend to them like normal. She reported me to my mission president and I had a talk with him. I just told him that these people were my friends and I loved them. I wasn't trying to steal her investigators, but I can't just up and abandon them. My mission president told us to figure it out and act like adults. I didn't allow the rules to stop me from teaching young women in their homes even when it was just my companion and I. I understood how it might be perceived, but I knew my heart was pure and my intents were true. There was a new member who was struggling with depression and talk of suicide. In this situation I was torn a bit, not knowing how to act. It seemed to me that she needed help but it was getting really late. I asked my companion but he was barely in the country and he was willing to do whatever was needed. I called my mission president and told him what was going on. He told me to do what I felt was right. What I felt was right was that we should go and be with this new member for however long we needed to be. So, we went to where she lived and we invited her to go for a walk with us. We walked and talked until past midnight or until I was convinced she wasn't going to hurt herself. We took her home and we went home.

We had goals to keep, but my mission president didn't push us as a salesperson. I hated the idea of being a sales person so even if he would I, I wouldn't have played along. We were constantly encourage to be genuine and to use the principles we were taught but to follow the Spirit and adapt to situations as it was dictated by the Spirit.

I only baptized one person on my mission and this was an investigator that the sisters were teaching. Not for a second do I feel like I was a failure.

I'm not trying to toot my own horn or anything. I wasn't this super missionary or anything and anything good that I did it was because of God and His Spirit, not because of my efforts. I was told by a good friend of mine then that I was like Frank Sinatra because I did things "my way" although it was probably a mix of pride and being naive. I think one big difference from what I see often is that I went on my mission because I wanted to. I was not pressured at all to go on my mission by my father, mother, or anyone, for that matter. I wanted to go because I felt it was right and it was good. I wanted to be there, regardless of anything else. Nobody made me go and so when I was there, it was by my own choice and I wasn't about to go anywhere until my mission was over. I absolutely loved my mission. I cried and bawled the whole flight back home. I didn't really want to come home. I also had a wonderful mission president and mission mom. What great people they were and I've been eternally influenced for the good because of what they taught me and because of their examples.

-Finrock

[brianj]

His worry is that he won't be able to find a good LDS girl to marry if he doesn't serve. Poor kid feels like he's being crushed from both sides. While he hasn't come outright and said it, some of the comments he's made make it sound like he feels like his only option is to just leave the church once he's graduated and on his own.

I really feel for this generation growing up right now...as much as people like to gripe about the millennials, the youth are facing an incredibly wicked world and the crushing peer pressure that goes along with that.

My hope is your son realizes that there are many good LDS girls that will see his great qualities and that being a RM doesn't always make a guy the "perfect catch". What impressed me when I met my husband was his love of family, work ethic, artistic talent, spirituality​, personality and the great way he treated me on our dates (not to mention he's super cute, lol). Him coming home early from his mission was not a concern in any way, shape or form.

I missed this when it was first posted; I guess I skimmed a little too much.

HP, tell your son that this isn't anything new. I joined the church decades ago, and almost immediately was hit with a lot of negativity from girls because I figured that not growing up in the church exempted me from the principle of going on a mission at 19. I recall some girls had this thing where they would sit with a guy while talking and find a way to brush his thigh to see if he was wearing garments. I had a lot I was dealing with as a new convert, and this didn't push me away from the church but it really did push me away from the dating scene.

It got even worse when, just over six months after I was baptized and less than three months before the end of the year, a Bishop told me that he wanted me to be on a mission before the end of the year. I was shocked and hurt. I was so excited going into his office and *finally* getting a calling! I was so naive that I was really hoping he would call me to be a home teacher! But I knew that there was no way this was an inspired "calling" because the church policy said that I had to be a member for a full year before I could become a missionary, and I interpreted his "calling" as a way of saying he didn't want me in his ward. I didn't attend that ward again until after that Bishop was released.

I would suggest encouraging your son to get away from the church pressures. Only when the pressure was completely off of me was I able to be persuaded by the Holy Ghost that I was supposed to go on a mission. I went reluctantly, thinking of the calling as orders and the mission as a tour of duty. For much of my mission I just went through the motions, but somewhere in the experience I started a tremendous growth and today I am glad that I served.

[butterfly]

His worry is that he won't be able to find a good LDS girl to marry if he doesn't serve. Poor kid feels like he's being crushed from both sides. While he hasn't come outright and said it, some of the comments he's made make it sound like he feels like his only option is to just leave the church once he's graduated and on his own.

I really feel for this generation growing up right now...as much as people like to gripe about the millennials, the youth are facing an incredibly wicked world and the crushing peer pressure that goes along with that.

My hope is your son realizes that there are many good LDS girls that will see his great qualities and that being a RM doesn't always make a guy the "perfect catch". What impressed me when I met my husband was his love of family, work ethic, artistic talent, spirituality​, personality and the great way he treated me on our dates (not to mention he's super cute, lol). Him coming home early from his mission was not a concern in any way, shape or form.

I missed this when it was first posted; I guess I skimmed a little too much.

HP, tell your son that this isn't anything new. I joined the church decades ago, and almost immediately was hit with a lot of negativity from girls because I figured that not growing up in the church exempted me from the principle of going on a mission at 19. I recall some girls had this thing where they would sit with a guy while talking and find a way to brush his thigh to see if he was wearing garments. I had a lot I was dealing with as a new convert, and this didn't push me away from the church but it really did push me away from the dating scene.

It got even worse when, just over six months after I was baptized and less than three months before the end of the year, a Bishop told me that he wanted me to be on a mission before the end of the year. I was shocked and hurt. I was so excited going into his office and *finally* getting a calling! I was so naive that I was really hoping he would call me to be a home teacher! But I knew that there was no way this was an inspired "calling" because the church policy said that I had to be a member for a full year before I could become a missionary, and I interpreted his "calling" as a way of saying he didn't want me in his ward. I didn't attend that ward again until after that Bishop was released.

I would suggest encouraging your son to get away from the church pressures. Only when the pressure was completely off of me was I able to be persuaded by the Holy Ghost that I was supposed to go on a mission. I went reluctantly, thinking of the calling as orders and the mission as a tour of duty. For much of my mission I just went through the motions, but somewhere in the experience I started a tremendous growth and today I am glad that I served.

My husband didn't serve a mission, he joined the church a few months before his 19th birthday and didn't go. He was so excited when a few years later he got to hear Elder Scott speak in person to the YSA. He was VERY surprised, however, to hear Elder Scott encourage the sisters to only marry a RM. My husband had no idea that this was part of Mormon culture. So he just accepted the idea that he'd never marry - he didn't want to marry outside the temple, but apparently no LDS girl should even consider him.

When I got off my mission, I was very clearly told by the spirit that it was time for me to meet my future husband. The spirit literally led me to where he was, and I followed incredibly clear promptings to date him. When I found out he wasn't an RM, i decided to break up with him. (really shallow, I know, but hey, I thought it was the right thing).

I cannot tell you how hard heaven worked to get us together. It was one spiritual miracle after another- I felt like God had given the angels permission to break all the rules just to convince me that I was supposed to marry this guy. But I still resisted. Finally the YSA branch pres. confided to me that none of the other guys would even ask me out because they, too, thought I belonged to this guy. My branch pres asked
"What's the problem with him?"

I replied:"I wanted to marry a RM"

He thought a moment and by inspiration said "I think one RM is enough for a family."

That did it. We have been living happily ever after since.

My point is h_p: Let your son know that he should serve a mission only for the right reasons and not out of fear of never finding a good LDS wife. If he chooses not to serve a traditional LDS mission, but he remains true to Christ, then the Lord will work out the marriage situation. The Lord does not require His daughters to marry RMs and He will make sure your son's future wife knows that.

[Spaced_Out]

Anyway, what a deal - these poor boys have to live with the stigma (which, of course, shouldn't exist, but let's be real, it does exist) of "coming home early", when they didn't want to go in the first place but were forced to by parents. Sad situation. Our boys learned lots of good things, too; I hasten (had to use the word at least once) to add - but I would not say their missions had a net positive affect on them. I will say they are still active and thriving in the Church and gospel, no thanks to having served missions.

Thanks for sharing this, EmmaLee. I was writing a post about some of the things my son experienced on his mission, but realized it was turning into a big grievance-mongering, so I deleted it, but it's really heartbreaking to hear that other missions are as bad as my son's. I personally know some other missionaries who seem to be in great missions with wonderful MPs who are full charity and patience, so thankfully, it's not that way everywhere. It just makes me feel like "why MY son??"

To add insult to injury is the effect it's having on my other son. He's really torn right now about serving, and the time is coming quick. Seeing what happened to his brother makes him not want to go, but he realizes that pretty much brands a big "L" on his forehead forever. His worry is that he won't be able to find a good LDS girl to marry if he doesn't serve. Poor kid feels like he's being crushed from both sides. While he hasn't come outright and said it, some of the comments he's made make it sound like he feels like his only option is to just leave the church once he's graduated and on his own.

?????What happens to prayer and guidance from the HG, if we make decisions purely on other and what happened to them then we will surely end up lost. Faith to follow the spirit is what it takes to serve a mission.

[Spaced_Out]

Reading all these posts about YM struggling about a decision to serve a mission is very weird to me. I was baptised at 14yo then after school had to do 2 years conscription in the military - then put in my mission papers. My parents took legal council to sue the church to prevent me from going on a mission so had to wait till I was 21, and funded my own mission. I had two very different mission presidents but just made it work.
We have missionaries in our ward and they are excellent - way better than I was, they are doing well.

I think we are all drowning in the sins and abominations around us and can't see the forest through the trees.

[JustDan]

All I have are anecdotes, but my children are right in the mission-age group now, and this is a very sensitive topic in my family right now. My son said that half the missionaries who went home with him were going home early, including my son, who has since left the church because of his mission experience. My other son isn't wanting to go now, because of that.

Another missionary I'm close to has seen similar rates of early departure in his mission. He's got about 6 months left before he comes home, and he's the only person still out from his MTC group. They've all gone home early, and this elder very nearly quit out of discouragement last month.

Judging from the amount of attention the church seems to be giving to missionaries coming home early, I suspect this is pretty widespread. For my family personally, though, it's been an unmitigated disaster.

The news that so many serving missionaries are leaving their missions comes as a surprise to me. I'd not heard of this. We have two missionaries serving from our ward right now, and both are having enjoyable missions through which they are growing as individuals.

I am however aware that in my stake, one missionary returned after only a week in the mission field (having spent 3 months learning the language in MTC), and one other (a friend to this guy) had his mission papers in, and then pulled out before the call came. There is in my mind broadly a difference in the individuals who serve faithfully and those who do not complete a mission. There are always individual cases that do not tally like this, but there are of course many individuals who serve missions who are not ready to serve. Many do not have the testimony. Many are not ready for the hard work.

I served a mission some 15 years ago. I served in England. It is no tougher to serve a mission now than it was then.. and England is hardly a field white and ready to harvest. ;) Yet, towards the end of my mission, I discovered that the Mission Doctor had told the President that 50% of the missionaries were suffering from depression. In fact, a previous companion of mine actually called me to tell me he wanted to go home, and I spent some time persuading him to carry on. He did, and finished his mission as normal.

What was this depression? In my mind, in most cases nothing. Yes, there is a rare chemical depression, but most cases of depression are self induced and are simply a matter of 'feeling down'. Why would someone feel down? Generally because of rejection. The biggest problem I detected is that many missionaries were not ready to face rejection. It came as a shock to them. They expect baptisms.. but when they struggle to baptise they get upset. But go home? No way!!

When I served my mission, I had no interest in baptisms. Zero. Nothing. I did not teach to baptise, I taught to convert and to change lives. I served to plant seeds in hope that at some future day, these seeds would grow and enable that person to receive the Lord in their life. I set no goals. Every meeting, I would not set goals. When I served as District Leader, I ensured my District (including Zone Leaders) had no goals. We served with no baptism numbers to reach. We had a fantastic time serving because we wanted to serve, and teaching through the Spirit.

If missionaries are serving and returning home, we need to look at how prepared they were in the first place, and what was their expectation. A mission is hard. They need to know that. They need to endure that.

[JustDan]

My mission president's first instruction to me when I arrived was to "lie to the members. They'll ask you how long you've been out and if you tell them that you're new to the mission, then they won't trust you with their nonmember friends because you're too inexperienced."

I was still under the hypnotism of the MTC that says "if you follow mission rules, you will have baptisms. If you break mission rules, God will not trust you with his children and so you won't have baptisms." So my 1st dinner appointment with members, I did exactly what the MP told me - I flat out lied about being new to the mission.

By the time dinner was over, I realized what I had done, apologized to the members and explained everything. They were bothered about the lie and it set the tone for the rest of my mission. I realized that just because a leader says it, does not make it true or right. That mission president later threatened to send me home, but that's a whole other story.

The point is, at 18 or 19 yrs of age, I wouldn't have had that clarity of thought in order to recognize that my MP was wrong. I think so many missionaries are too heavily indoctrinated to follow all those ridiculous rules that have nothing to do with righteousness, having the Spirit, or teaching people about Christ. The missionaries are driven to focus so much on these rules, which are nearly impossible to keep 100%, and so when they don't have baptisms, they're told it's their own fault.
It's no wonder they have anxiety.

Interesting story. I had similar in that our Mission President basically said the same thing. His line was "just under a year" or "just over a year". The idea was the same - if you tell a member you are new to the Mission, they won't trust you. If they know you are going home, they won't trust you and will talk to you about home.

I immediately refused to follow that council. I too feel that it is a dishonest approach, and would rather the member judge me how they wish - having known truth.

The rest of my mission followed a similar plan. I would often challenge my Mission Presidents when given council that I felt was wrong - and no surprise my Mission Presidents didn't tend to like me much. But, I was always open and honest with them - even to the point of flat out refusing to follow one bit of council to the MP's face. Not that I was disobedient as a missionary, but when something was wrong, I refused to do it.

Take this as an example of how silly things became:
When the world faced financial difficulties, the church too began to cut back. It was determined that one way of saving costs was to cut down on the use of our telephones. So, we were instructed to use the telephone/mobile for no more than 10 minutes per day. We actually received "training" from our Zone Leaders and AP's on how to be abrupt in phonecalls... !! Quickly make the appointments and get off the phone. Ridiculous.

[h_p]

What was this depression? In my mind, in most cases nothing. Yes, there is a rare chemical depression, but most cases of depression are self induced and are simply a matter of 'feeling down'.

Spoken like someone who really has no idea what it's like. If you're willing to take some advice here, I'd beg you not to tell these kinds of things to someone who truly is suffering from depression. Telling them they're just "feeling down" and should just "snap out of it" or "have more faith" only makes it worse. I know people mean well, but a person really can't understand it until they've been through it themselves.

[JustDan]

What was this depression? In my mind, in most cases nothing. Yes, there is a rare chemical depression, but most cases of depression are self induced and are simply a matter of 'feeling down'.

Spoken like someone who really has no idea what it's like. If you're willing to take some advice here, I'd beg you not to tell these kinds of things to someone who truly is suffering from depression. Telling them they're just "feeling down" and should just "snap out of it" or "have more faith" only makes it worse. I know people mean well, but a person really can't understand it until they've been through it themselves.

Only if they have true depression - which is the minority.

In our Western society, the "depression" label is thrown around everywhere. Heck, I have had bad times and could claim to have been "depressed". However, I wasn't. I just had a bad time.

Why is depression on the increase? Because people consider themselves depressed. Like I said, 50% of the missionaries in my mission were suffering from depression - according to the Mission Doctor. Does that sound true? In a lot of cases, depression is a choice. It is a state of mind. Sorry that that doesn't fit with the current sentiments among our 50% depressed world.

Go to Nigeria and find the people suffering from depression. Huge numbers of people there are struggling to make ends meet and go without many basics we take for granted. Based on our Western depression, 90% of Nigerians would be depressed. But they are not - because they choose to find a way through it. ;)

[Rose Garden]

His worry is that he won't be able to find a good LDS girl to marry if he doesn't serve. Poor kid feels like he's being crushed from both sides. While he hasn't come outright and said it, some of the comments he's made make it sound like he feels like his only option is to just leave the church once he's graduated and on his own.

I really feel for this generation growing up right now...as much as people like to gripe about the millennials, the youth are facing an incredibly wicked world and the crushing peer pressure that goes along with that.

My hope is your son realizes that there are many good LDS girls that will see his great qualities and that being a RM doesn't always make a guy the "perfect catch". What impressed me when I met my husband was his love of family, work ethic, artistic talent, spirituality​, personality and the great way he treated me on our dates (not to mention he's super cute, lol). Him coming home early from his mission was not a concern in any way, shape or form.

I missed this when it was first posted; I guess I skimmed a little too much.

HP, tell your son that this isn't anything new. I joined the church decades ago, and almost immediately was hit with a lot of negativity from girls because I figured that not growing up in the church exempted me from the principle of going on a mission at 19. I recall some girls had this thing where they would sit with a guy while talking and find a way to brush his thigh to see if he was wearing garments. I had a lot I was dealing with as a new convert, and this didn't push me away from the church but it really did push me away from the dating scene.

It got even worse when, just over six months after I was baptized and less than three months before the end of the year, a Bishop told me that he wanted me to be on a mission before the end of the year. I was shocked and hurt. I was so excited going into his office and *finally* getting a calling! I was so naive that I was really hoping he would call me to be a home teacher! But I knew that there was no way this was an inspired "calling" because the church policy said that I had to be a member for a full year before I could become a missionary, and I interpreted his "calling" as a way of saying he didn't want me in his ward. I didn't attend that ward again until after that Bishop was released.

I would suggest encouraging your son to get away from the church pressures. Only when the pressure was completely off of me was I able to be persuaded by the Holy Ghost that I was supposed to go on a mission. I went reluctantly, thinking of the calling as orders and the mission as a tour of duty. For much of my mission I just went through the motions, but somewhere in the experience I started a tremendous growth and today I am glad that I served.

My husband didn't serve a mission, he joined the church a few months before his 19th birthday and didn't go. He was so excited when a few years later he got to hear Elder Scott speak in person to the YSA. He was VERY surprised, however, to hear Elder Scott encourage the sisters to only marry a RM. My husband had no idea that this was part of Mormon culture. So he just accepted the idea that he'd never marry - he didn't want to marry outside the temple, but apparently no LDS girl should even consider him.

When I got off my mission, I was very clearly told by the spirit that it was time for me to meet my future husband. The spirit literally led me to where he was, and I followed incredibly clear promptings to date him. When I found out he wasn't an RM, i decided to break up with him. (really shallow, I know, but hey, I thought it was the right thing).

I cannot tell you how hard heaven worked to get us together. It was one spiritual miracle after another- I felt like God had given the angels permission to break all the rules just to convince me that I was supposed to marry this guy. But I still resisted. Finally the YSA branch pres. confided to me that none of the other guys would even ask me out because they, too, thought I belonged to this guy. My branch pres asked
"What's the problem with him?"

I replied:"I wanted to marry a RM"

He thought a moment and by inspiration said "I think one RM is enough for a family."

That did it. We have been living happily ever after since.

My point is h_p: Let your son know that he should serve a mission only for the right reasons and not out of fear of never finding a good LDS wife. If he chooses not to serve a traditional LDS mission, but he remains true to Christ, then the Lord will work out the marriage situation. The Lord does not require His daughters to marry RMs and He will make sure your son's future wife knows that.

I second this advice. I have been in situations where it seems that there is no viable option for me to do what I felt was right. And yet I decided to do what I felt was right anyway and had the Lord miraculously set everything straight for me. I would encourage you to remind your son of the power of God and his mercy and love and teach him to trust in that. The Lord can overcome all the foolishness of mankind.

[Thinker]

So sorry to see the struggles your son and family are dealing with, h_p Although I suspect I know the answer...what is causing so many missionaries to come home early?

My mom and step dad are serving in a mission office in Canada and she tells me nearly every week that another missionary (or three) went home. The cause is nearly always anxiety. The office is near lds social services and she's shocked at how many missionaries need those services. She said it feels like Satan is working extra hard to exploit their weaknesses and the poor missionaries blame themselves when they really shouldn't. Many of them are affected by problems at home.
At a recent scout training meeting they quoted some stats (wish I had them) saying the same thing, most missionaries leave because of mental illness, then medical, then morality problems.

Good point and I know of some who have had similar reasons for coming home early.

I really wish that all missionaries learned to spot and correct cognitive distortions https://www.apsu.edu/sites/apsu.edu/fil ... TIVE_0.pdf - it would help them be better people and be better able to teach by example - how to think and feel as God would have us.

Also, most American diets are so bad that many common foods are BANNED in other countries. We're poisoning ourselves, which causes us to need more meds, (more money for those in the pharmaceutical field), which needs more meds for the side effects of those meds... and the vicious cycle continues. Meds have their purpose for sure, but they're so often overused, and just as alcohol & other addictions, they prevent us from thinking right in order to correct problems as they arise.

[Onsdag]

Here's a comparison of the number of new converts per new ward created each year (new converts / new wards) since 2001:
2001: 1927
2002: 5542.8
2003: 2805.4
2004: 671.1
2005: 683.6
2006: 793.1
2007: 924.4
2008: 1115.3
2009: 1004.3
2010: 1299.2
2011: 2499
2012: 1483.2
2013: 1253.4
2014: 788.9
2015: 662.9
2016: 861.9

The last 3 years seems to be trending toward smaller wards, if this ratio has any meaning at all, but I suspect this ratio has as much to do with distribution of new converts as it does a change in desired ward size.

I'm not sure how you're justifying your conclusions based upon those statistics. To me I'm not seeing a downwards trend; rather, I'm seeing cyclical changes. I color coded the numbers to help visualize this better. Green is high numbers per ward (~>2000), blue is moderate (~1000-2000), and red is low (~<1000). So you can easily see that the numbers are increasing/decreasing in waves. It started high, then drastically drops, then gradually builds up again until it gets high, then drops pretty significantly again, then begins building up once more. What I'm seeing is naturally and easily explained by the growth of the Church: as membership per ward increases significantly to a certain point they split the stakes/wards and create new ones to fill the need, subsequently number of members per ward drops dramatically, over time though as the Church continues to grow membership per ward begins to climb again and the cycle is repeated. I have seen this very thing happen in the wards and stakes I have been in - as membership gets really high the wards/stakes are split and new ones added, membership is then really low for a while but gradually grows until we are full again and the pattern repeats. Very common, very natural, and very normal.

[h_p]

I'm not sure how you're justifying your conclusions based upon those statistics. To me I'm not seeing a downwards trend; rather, I'm seeing cyclical changes.

Well, I'm really not much of a statistician, and your explanation makes more sense than what I was seeing. I was interpreting it as a possible recent change toward smaller wards, but like I said in that post, I was doubtful the ratio was even meaningful at all. Honestly, I'm not looking for any conspiracy in the church or anything. I actually prefer smaller wards and stakes (though they can also be too small).

[Lizzy60]

There is a plan in the US to create smaller wards with fewer units per stake. My stake president detailed this for us at ward conference and told us to be prepared for these changes, which then occurred last Sept. He said that he received this information in a meeting with area (Dallas-Ft Worth) stake presidents and the Area Authority. He told us that the plan is for all US areas where there is enough density in the church population to warrant the changes. My ward was medium-sized, as was the other ward in our building. There are now three smallish wards in pretty much the same boundary. The big change is that we are now in a newly-created stake. Three stakes were made from the boundaries that currently had two stakes, and most of the wards are smallish, with fewer units per stake.

I have read discussions online where members in the Mormon Corridor have said the same thing is happening there. They have been told that it is for the same reason we were told by our stake president -- to help in reactivation efforts because returning members will feel more needed as they are given callings, and also there will be more leadership opportunities for active members.

Emmalee, of this forum, said the same thing happened in her Midwest US stake. An additional stake was created by creating smaller wards, and putting fewer wards in each stake.

FWIW, I am NOT being negative about this program, or the church. I am simply recounting the details that were plainly spoken by my stake president last year, as he recounted the meeting with the area authority. He was very detailed, and there were no surprises (except that my son and his family, who live a 45-minute drive from me, are now in my stake.