LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun

[freedomforall]

Teach To Shoot.jpg (196.34 KiB) Viewed 1283 times

[Ezra]

Government doesn't own the land. Or us. Or our income. Which is a product of our self's.

Nor does the thug who's holding a gun to your head demanding your property.

Nor does the chicken that crossed the road.

Really it's all Gods property.

Listen to what ETB says about property ownership and the right to protect it and one's own life. Start at the 12:20 mark.

Your preaching to the choir.

[freedomforall]

Your preaching to the choir.

It appears that part of the choir isn't singing. Others are off key, so I figured ETB could straighten them out so they will sing in harmony.

[eddie]

Teach To Shoot.jpg

Armed and dangerous!

[Ezra]

Your preaching to the choir.

It appears that part of the choir isn't singing. Others are off key, so I figured ETB could straighten them out so they will sing in harmony.

I agree with Ezra t benson.

But obviously you don't think I do. So I'm curious how you think I differ in view?

[ajax]

I have no problem with how the missionary reacted. Split second instinctual.

Who's to say that the HG didn't inspire him to grab the firearm at the time he did?

[Finrock]

I have no problem with how the missionary reacted. Split second instinctual.

Who's to say that the HG didn't inspire him to grab the firearm at the time he did?

Exactly.

-Finrock

[freedomforall]

Nephi was a great prophet. Did people think less of him after he decapitated Laban?
Did anyone think less of Ammon for lopping off arms from the enemies of King Lamoni?
Did Moroni get ridiculed for gathering armies to go up against enemy forces?
Did any of the 2060 stripling young men get killed as they thrust their swords into the bodies of their enemies in battle?

Nephi confounded his enemies and so did the missionary.

[Ezra]

Nephi was a great prophet. Did people think less of him after he decapitated Laban?
Did anyone think less of Ammon for lopping off arms from the enemies of King Lamoni?
Did Moroni get ridiculed for gathering armies to go up against enemy forces?
Did any of the 2060 stripling young men get killed as they thrust their swords into the bodies of their enemies in battle?

Nephi confounded his enemies and so did the missionary.

True. But that only one part.

The other is to turn the other cheek and all that entails. Be like the anti nephi lehi and refuse to fight. How many did they convert? And why?

Both are options one will give you more blessings.

Why so much focus and defending of walking the lower road? No one is disagreeing that is not an option. It's justified but what's the eternal reward?

The question still remains. What would the savior do? And why?

Shouldn't we discuss that? Try to understand that? Try to do that?

[shadow]

Why so much focus and defending of walking the lower road?

That's where your misunderstanding comes in. You're saying it's the lower road and others are saying maybe it's the higher road. There are scriptural references of defending yourself, even unto death, as well as scriptural references of not doing anything. You claim the missionary screwed up and you offer scriptural references to back it, but there are scriptural references that say the missionary was correct with his response. Christ physically tossed out the money changers in the Temple. Ouch. What would Christ do? Well, He already did it. Maybe you think He took the lower road? Double ouch for you.
We know you can be robbed without giving a fight, and you might be doing right be allowing yourself and those around you to be robbed, but it can also be right to take a stand and defend yourself. You've judged the actions of the missionary incorrectly. Mostly because it's not your place to judge.

[captainfearnot]

Teach your daughter to shoot, because a restraining order is just a piece of paper.

It's true, restraining orders don't always work. But when women defend themselves from their abusers with deadly force, too often they go to prison for it.

In 1989, the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence found that while the average prison sentence for men who kill their female partners was two to six years, the average sentence for women who killed their male partners was fifteen years. This, despite the fact that, as stated by NCADV’s findings, “most women who kill their partners do so to protect themselves from violence initiated by their partners.”

So teach your daughters to shoot, but then support justice for domestic violence survivors.

[Ezra]

Why so much focus and defending of walking the lower road?

That's where your misunderstanding comes in. You're saying it's the lower road and others are saying maybe it's the higher road. There are scriptural references of defending yourself, even unto death, as well as scriptural references of not doing anything. You claim the missionary screwed up and you offer scriptural references to back it, but there are scriptural references that say the missionary was correct with his response. Christ physically tossed out the money changers in the Temple. Ouch. What would Christ do? Well, He already did it. Maybe you think He took the lower road? Double ouch for you.
We know you can be robbed without giving a fight, and you might be doing right be allowing yourself and those around you to be robbed, but it can also be right to take a stand and defend yourself. You've judged the actions of the missionary incorrectly. Mostly because it's not your place to judge.

How is killing your fellow men the high road? It's justified in self defense. But you honestly think it's the high road? Really?

What would our savior do?? Why won't anyone answer??

Scolding and telling people to leave the temple is not killing.

Did the savior kill anyone in self defense?

Can you honestly see him ever killing anyone?

[shadow]

God is always cleansing via death. Sodam and Gamorrah, for example. The flood. Remember reading those events in the scriptures? The destruction in the BOM prior to Christ's return? You know, all those people God killed.

[Ezra]

God is always cleansing via death. Sodam and Gamorrah, for example. The flood. Remember reading those events in the scriptures? The destruction in the BOM prior to Christ's return? You know, all those people God killed.

God killing them could mean he allowed them the destroy themselfs. All it would take for "God " to destroy America is to take away the power grid. Which would be very easily done by a few individuals working together. America would self destruct.

Thats not god killing. Ramming a knife in their heart. Cutting their neck.



People kill people all the time. They almost can't seem to stop. That's the high road right?

Can you honestly see God shooting someone to death? Or stabbing or clubbing them over the head tell they die?

That's the high road????

It's dirty nasty horrible.

No. It's justified in self defense.

How many people or things have you killed? Any up close?

It doesn't feel good. Doesn't feel like a high road.

[shadow]

Do I see God shooting someone in the head? I think He uses different ways, like turning someone into a pillar of salt. But yes, He also uses righteous people to slay the wicked. Maybe you're unfamiliar with the scriptures, or maybe you just don't believe them?

[Ezra]

Do I see God shooting someone in the head? I think He uses different ways, like turning someone into a pillar of salt. But yes, He also uses righteous people to slay the wicked. Maybe you're unfamiliar with the scriptures, or maybe you just don't believe them?

He uses righteous to slag the wicked??? In self defense.

Or maybe I am familiar with scripture and think about what's being said.

Do you know how it feels to kill?

That's not the high road.

We are justified in killing animals to feed ourself. We are not justified to kill for sport.

We are justified to kill in self defense. We are not allowed to kill because we want to. Because cuz they made us mad or something.

Why is that?

Life is important to God.

He doesn't delight in the shedding of blood.

He doesn't delight in war. I can bet you anything that he would rather we figure it out without killing each other. I bet you he would rather us not fight at all. I bet you he would rather us walk a higher road.

[freedomforall]

Jehovah/Christ caused a plague to slay many people unless there were lambs blood on their home. I think this was one of the plagues at the time Moses was attempting to get Pharaoh to release the Israelites from bondage.

Exodus
Chapter 11
The Lord promises to slay the firstborn in every Egyptian home.

Exodus
Chapter 12
The Lord institutes the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread—Lambs without blemish are slain—Israel is saved by their blood—The firstborn of all Egyptians are slain

12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord.
13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

This is what Jesus would do!

[shadow]

Do I see God shooting someone in the head? I think He uses different ways, like turning someone into a pillar of salt. But yes, He also uses righteous people to slay the wicked. Maybe you're unfamiliar with the scriptures, or maybe you just don't believe them?

He uses righteous to slag the wicked??? In self defense.

Or maybe I am familiar with scripture and think about what's being said.

Do you know how it feels to kill?

That's not the high road.

We are justified in killing animals to feed ourself. We are not justified to kill for sport.

We are justified to kill in self defense. We are not allowed to kill because we want to. Because cuz they made us mad or something.

Why is that?

Life is important to God.

He doesn't delight in the shedding of blood.

He doesn't delight in war. I can bet you anything that he would rather we figure it out without killing each other. I bet you he would rather us not fight at all. I bet you he would rather us walk a higher road.

You're going off topic into Mr. Rogers make believe land. Sure God doesn't want war or killings, but we're talking about a missionary who fought off a thug who was threatening his life with a gun. God has had people killed for lesser things, like someone trying to steady an arc, or someone holding on to some donations. It's all in the scriptures. If you need references, just ask. God has a way of taking out thugs, sometimes even by death, which the missionary didn't do even though his life was threatened by a man pointing a gun at him. This isn't as difficult as you seem to be making it. Would God kill someone who is keeping the commandments? Probably not. Does God kill people who break the commandments? Sometimes He does! You cannot argue that without coming across as ignorant because there are dozens of stories in the scriptures where that very thing has happened. In case you're confused- robbing someone at gunpoint is breaking the commandments. Defending yourself is not breaking the commandments.

[Ezra]

Do I see God shooting someone in the head? I think He uses different ways, like turning someone into a pillar of salt. But yes, He also uses righteous people to slay the wicked. Maybe you're unfamiliar with the scriptures, or maybe you just don't believe them?

He uses righteous to slag the wicked??? In self defense.

Or maybe I am familiar with scripture and think about what's being said.

Do you know how it feels to kill?

That's not the high road.

We are justified in killing animals to feed ourself. We are not justified to kill for sport.

We are justified to kill in self defense. We are not allowed to kill because we want to. Because cuz they made us mad or something.

Why is that?

Life is important to God.

He doesn't delight in the shedding of blood.

He doesn't delight in war. I can bet you anything that he would rather we figure it out without killing each other. I bet you he would rather us not fight at all. I bet you he would rather us walk a higher road.

You're going off topic into Mr. Rogers make believe land. Sure God doesn't want war or killings, but we're talking about a missionary who fought off a thug who was threatening his life with a gun. God has had people killed for lesser things, like someone trying to steady an arc, or someone holding on to some donations. It's all in the scriptures. If you need references, just ask. God has a way of taking out thugs, sometimes even by death, which the missionary didn't do even though his life was threatened by a man pointing a gun at him. This isn't as difficult as you seem to be making it. Would God kill someone who is keeping the commandments? Probably not. Does God kill people who break the commandments? Sometimes He does! You cannot argue that without coming across as ignorant because there are dozens of stories in the scriptures where that very thing has happened. In case you're confused- robbing someone at gunpoint is breaking the commandments. Defending yourself is not breaking the commandments.

We are talking about what would our savior do.

If you feel that is mr rogers make believe land. Wow. Kinda sad.

All your examples of god killing people are From the Bible. Which also has talking donkeys . Says slavery is fine and warns the slaves to listen to their earthy masters. Says that crippled people are a scourge and should not be allowed to bless the sacriment because it would defile it. And because some boys call a prophet bald. That prophet curses them and 42 bears come and maul them. Or the verses that say for a woman to learn in silence and subjugation and to not teach or be over a man but he silent.

Ya really accurate stuff. There is a reason the Book of Mormon is the most accurate book of scripture. So if you don't mind. I would like examples from the Book of Mormon and d&c on how God kills people. And his thoughts on that.

[Mark]

"You're going off topic into Mr. Rogers make believe land."

Welcome to the good ol' LDSFF. :))

[shadow]

The Book of Mormon also has lots of death from war, including righteous warriors killing unrighteous people in defense of their lifestyles. There is also death because of God caused destruction including earthquakes and tsunamis. So no, Ezra, it's not just OT Bible stuff.

[eddie]

Do I see God shooting someone in the head? I think He uses different ways, like turning someone into a pillar of salt. But yes, He also uses righteous people to slay the wicked. Maybe you're unfamiliar with the scriptures, or maybe you just don't believe them?

He uses righteous to slag the wicked??? In self defense.

Or maybe I am familiar with scripture and think about what's being said.

Do you know how it feels to kill?

That's not the high road.

We are justified in killing animals to feed ourself. We are not justified to kill for sport.

We are justified to kill in self defense. We are not allowed to kill because we want to. Because cuz they made us mad or something.

Why is that?

Life is important to God.

He doesn't delight in the shedding of blood.

He doesn't delight in war. I can bet you anything that he would rather we figure it out without killing each other. I bet you he would rather us not fight at all. I bet you he would rather us walk a higher road.

You're going off topic into Mr. Rogers make believe land. Sure God doesn't want war or killings, but we're talking about a missionary who fought off a thug who was threatening his life with a gun. God has had people killed for lesser things, like someone trying to steady an arc, or someone holding on to some donations. It's all in the scriptures. If you need references, just ask. God has a way of taking out thugs, sometimes even by death, which the missionary didn't do even though his life was threatened by a man pointing a gun at him. This isn't as difficult as you seem to be making it. Would God kill someone who is keeping the commandments? Probably not. Does God kill people who break the commandments? Sometimes He does! You cannot argue that without coming across as ignorant because there are dozens of stories in the scriptures where that very thing has happened. In case you're confused- robbing someone at gunpoint is breaking the commandments. Defending yourself is not breaking the commandments.

We are talking about what would our savior do.

If you feel that is mr rogers make believe land. Wow. Kinda sad.

All your examples of god killing people are From the Bible. Which also has talking donkeys . Says slavery is fine and warns the slaves to listen to their earthy masters. Says that crippled people are a scourge and should not be allowed to bless the sacriment because it would defile it. And because some boys call a prophet bald. That prophet curses them and 42 bears come and maul them. Or the verses that say for a woman to learn in silence and subjugation and to not teach or be over a man but he silent.

Ya really accurate stuff. There is a reason the Book of Mormon is the most accurate book of scripture. So if you don't mind. I would like examples from the Book of Mormon and d&c on how God kills people. And his thoughts on that.

Ezra, you have been given multiple examples from the BOM, whats it gonna take?

[eddie]

"You're going off topic into Mr. Rogers make believe land."

Welcome to the good ol' LDSFF. :))

" Its a beautiful day in the neighborhood." ;)

[Ezra]

He uses righteous to slag the wicked??? In self defense.

Or maybe I am familiar with scripture and think about what's being said.

Do you know how it feels to kill?

That's not the high road.

We are justified in killing animals to feed ourself. We are not justified to kill for sport.

We are justified to kill in self defense. We are not allowed to kill because we want to. Because cuz they made us mad or something.

Why is that?

Life is important to God.

He doesn't delight in the shedding of blood.

He doesn't delight in war. I can bet you anything that he would rather we figure it out without killing each other. I bet you he would rather us not fight at all. I bet you he would rather us walk a higher road.

You're going off topic into Mr. Rogers make believe land. Sure God doesn't want war or killings, but we're talking about a missionary who fought off a thug who was threatening his life with a gun. God has had people killed for lesser things, like someone trying to steady an arc, or someone holding on to some donations. It's all in the scriptures. If you need references, just ask. God has a way of taking out thugs, sometimes even by death, which the missionary didn't do even though his life was threatened by a man pointing a gun at him. This isn't as difficult as you seem to be making it. Would God kill someone who is keeping the commandments? Probably not. Does God kill people who break the commandments? Sometimes He does! You cannot argue that without coming across as ignorant because there are dozens of stories in the scriptures where that very thing has happened. In case you're confused- robbing someone at gunpoint is breaking the commandments. Defending yourself is not breaking the commandments.

We are talking about what would our savior do.

If you feel that is mr rogers make believe land. Wow. Kinda sad.

All your examples of god killing people are From the Bible. Which also has talking donkeys . Says slavery is fine and warns the slaves to listen to their earthy masters. Says that crippled people are a scourge and should not be allowed to bless the sacriment because it would defile it. And because some boys call a prophet bald. That prophet curses them and 42 bears come and maul them. Or the verses that say for a woman to learn in silence and subjugation and to not teach or be over a man but he silent.

Ya really accurate stuff. There is a reason the Book of Mormon is the most accurate book of scripture. So if you don't mind. I would like examples from the Book of Mormon and d&c on how God kills people. And his thoughts on that.

Ezra, you have been given multiple examples from the BOM, whats it gonna take?

Multiple examples of justification.

Not that killing in self defense is the high road.

Not that killing is what God would do.

Justified vs what would god do??? That's the question I am asking.

No one is arguing that you can take a life in self defense and be justified.

But what would god do? Can you see our loving god killing one of his children?

Why didn't he kill Satan and the 1/3 of host who fought against him.?????

Why didn't our savior kill anyone during his life here on earth?

[shadow]

Justified vs what would god do??? That's the question I am asking.

No one is arguing that you can take a life in self defense and be justified.

But what would god do? Can you see our loving god killing one of his children?

Why didn't he kill Satan and the 1/3 of host who fought against him.?????

Why didn't our savior kill anyone during his life here on earth?

Great questions. Maybe the Book of Mormon can correct your incorrect assumptions about what God would and wouldn't do-
4:12 And it came to pass that the Spirit said unto me again: Slay him, for the Lord hath delivered him into thy hands;
4:13 Behold the Lord slayeth the wicked to bring forth his righteous purposes.
Or this BoM story- 9:18 And God did hear our cries and did answer our prayers; and we did go forth in his might; yea, we did go forth against the Lamanites, and in one day and a night we did slay three thousand and forty-three; we did slay them even until we had driven them out of our land.


Wo!! He "slayeth the wicked". Did you catch that, Ezra? A "loving God" slays some of His children. Heck, He even says he's going to burn them- 6:7 For behold, after ye have been nourished by the good word of God all the day long, will ye bring forth evil fruit, that ye must be hewn down and cast into the fire?

I'm not sure you've read the Book of Mormon. It's full of this stuff.

33:10 Yea, and thou hast also heard me when I have been cast out and have been despised by mine enemies; yea, thou didst hear my cries, and wast angry with mine enemies, and thou didst visit them in thine anger with speedy destruction.

15:17 And now behold, saith the Lord, concerning the people of the Nephites: If they will not repent, and observe to do my will, I will utterly destroy them, saith the Lord, because of their unbelief notwithstanding the many mighty works which I have done among them; and as surely as the Lord liveth shall these things be, saith the Lord.

"Utterly destroy them"?? That's not very nice.