Do we actually have to have a driver license and a registered vehicle?

[freedomforall]

Here is a guy that has been traveling without either for over 37 years.

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NO DRIVER LICENSE REQUIRED IN THE U.S!

[Elizabeth]

Do not try this in Australia. Fines for even the smallest violations are high here.

[Ezra]

Have you tryed this ffa?

[Col. Flagg]

There isn't anything the government doesn't have its paws into financially in this country... we don't have a 'government', we have an out of control organized crime syndicate masquerading as a governing body that has a license to steal from we, the people. So does the private 'Fed'!

[gclayjr]

Col Flagg,

There isn't anything the government doesn't have its paws into financially in this country... we don't have a 'government', we have an out of control organized crime syndicate masquerading as a governing body that has a license to steal from we, the people. So does the private 'Fed'!

Yeah, I'd like to take ownership of the several hundred feet of road on 2 sides of my property, and put up toll gates, and stop everybody who drives by and get my toll. I should make a fortune. I'll do a good job of maintaining those roads on my property. I'm sure nobody would mind stopping every few hundred feet and paying a toll.

Regards,

George Clay

[freedomforall]

Have you tryed this ffa?

No, but I'd like to. I think with the correct and true documentation, one could do it. Several people have and are doing okay.

[Ezra]

I've would like to try this as well. I just want to get all read up on supporting laws and cases

[brianj]

Go ahead and try it, but don't be disrespectful to the police officer or the judge, and be sure you have enough money to pay the fines that will be levied when you are found guilty of violating the law.

[freedomforall]

Go ahead and try it, but don't be disrespectful to the police officer or the judge, and be sure you have enough money to pay the fines that will be levied when you are found guilty of violating the law.

What law? Where is a law stating that one has to have a driver license. There is a difference between driving a vehicle and traveling in one. The Constitution says we can travel freely. The only people required to have a license are those selling or transporting goods for an employer.

we all have the right to travel ! - California sheriff lets me travel without license or plates!

[freedomforall]

Active Arrest Warrant.... Cop Lets Man Continue Traveling (NO License, Tags, OR Reg!)

[freedomforall]

Right to travel court fraud case exposed, and won

[Sandinista]

Really? Pick your battles. You will find a much more peaceful life if you are not so ready to fight over everything. Something I read somewhere about contention may be applicable here.

[freedomforall]

Really? Pick your battles. You will find a much more peaceful life if you are not so ready to fight over everything. Something I read somewhere about contention may be applicable here.

You posted here, did you not?
Those willing to give away their freedom(s) do not deserve having it/them. Did President Benson mince words when he stated that for those that will not stand up for freedom, these people do not deserve citizenship in this country? How about when he said that for those who will not stand for freedom, their very salvation is in jeopardy?

When one reads the Constitution and compares it to all the unlawful laws imposed by politicians, one gets a better view and understanding of just what tyranny looks like and how we have given up freedom for security and in becoming sheep to the Government of his land and the bankers running it.

Someone please look up, "right to freely travel."

The Proper Role of Government by Ezra Taft Benson

[brianj]

Go ahead and try it, but don't be disrespectful to the police officer or the judge, and be sure you have enough money to pay the fines that will be levied when you are found guilty of violating the law.

What law? Where is a law stating that one has to have a driver license. There is a difference between driving a vehicle and traveling in one. The Constitution says we can travel freely. The only people required to have a license are those selling or transporting goods for an employer.

I'm going to call you out for the logical fallacy of special pleading, colloquially known as moving the goalposts. Your previous post discusses driving without a license, but in response to me you state: "There is a difference between driving a vehicle and traveling in one."

But I am happy to show you where there is a law stating one has to have a driver's license to operate a motor vehicle upon state roads. Since I spent 30 years in Washington state I will refer to the laws of that state. RCW 46.20.001 specifies that a drivers license issued by Washington is required to operate a motor vehicle within the state, though 46.20.025 provides exceptions to members of the armed forces, people licensed elsewhere, and operators of locomotives. Driving without a license is defined as either a misdemeanor or an infraction, depending on circumstances outlined in 46.20.005 and 16.20.015.
I'll even go the extra mile. The law requiring vehicles be registered and display plates to operate upon stat roads is RCW 46.16A.030.

As far as your state, if you take a look at state law you will find similar laws requiring a license and vehicle registration to drive on state roads. I don't feel like taking the effort, but I could easily go to YouTube and find videos showing people getting arrested for driving without a license then mouthing off when pulled over.

[brianj]

On second thought, these kids of videos are too entertaining to not look up.

[freedomforall]

Go ahead and try it, but don't be disrespectful to the police officer or the judge, and be sure you have enough money to pay the fines that will be levied when you are found guilty of violating the law.

What law? Where is a law stating that one has to have a driver license. There is a difference between driving a vehicle and traveling in one. The Constitution says we can travel freely. The only people required to have a license are those selling or transporting goods for an employer.

I'm going to call you out for the logical fallacy of special pleading, colloquially known as moving the goalposts. Your previous post discusses driving without a license, but in response to me you state: "There is a difference between driving a vehicle and traveling in one."

But I am happy to show you where there is a law stating one has to have a driver's license to operate a motor vehicle upon state roads. Since I spent 30 years in Washington state I will refer to the laws of that state. RCW 46.20.001 specifies that a drivers license issued by Washington is required to operate a motor vehicle within the state, though 46.20.025 provides exceptions to members of the armed forces, people licensed elsewhere, and operators of locomotives. Driving without a license is defined as either a misdemeanor or an infraction, depending on circumstances outlined in 46.20.005 and 16.20.015.
I'll even go the extra mile. The law requiring vehicles be registered and display plates to operate upon stat roads is RCW 46.16A.030.

As far as your state, if you take a look at state law you will find similar laws requiring a license and vehicle registration to drive on state roads. I don't feel like taking the effort, but I could easily go to YouTube and find videos showing people getting arrested for driving without a license then mouthing off when pulled over.

CONSTITUTIONAL LAW: The Orphaned Right

[cyclOps]

On second thought, these kids of videos are too entertaining to not look up.

Thanks Brian, that was fun to watch.

[freedomforall]

On second thought, these kids of videos are too entertaining to not look up.

Sad. This video depicts some of the worst violations of law enforcement where it is evident the cops do not know the law. Rather, they only flex their muscles...AND VIOLATE PEOPLE'S RIGHTS.

Why not post videos where cops get owned?

[cyclOps]

On second thought, these kids of videos are too entertaining to not look up.

Sad. This video depicts some of the worst violations of law enforcement where it is evident the cops do not know the law. Rather, they only flex their muscles...AND VIOLATE PEOPLE'S RIGHTS.

Why not post videos where cops get owned?

How are you freedomforall? My kids would like your Rio picture.

[freedomforall]

Keep in mind that the title of this thread is posed as a question, not a statement of fact without solid and accurate corroborating evidence.

I know there are police officers on this board that are willing to jump on this, even attack, because of their own job training. I get that. But what are the facts based on a Constitutional standpoint? What happened to protect and serve, instead of suspect and rule over? Did there not be any protection against entrapment such as illegal searches and seizures, stopping and intimidating people for mere self imposed suspicion and not for an actual crime having been committed?

We have a guy on board quoting Washington RCW's Well, here is a man who has caught, red handed, cops violating so-called WA, RCW's

How about RCW 46.08.065

[freedomforall]

Cop quits!

[cyclOps]

Do you want to have a conversation?

[Sandinista]

Really? Pick your battles. You will find a much more peaceful life if you are not so ready to fight over everything. Something I read somewhere about contention may be applicable here.

You posted here, did you not?
Those willing to give away their freedom(s) do not deserve having it/them. Did President Benson mince words when he stated that for those that will not stand up for freedom, these people do not deserve citizenship in this country? How about when he said that for those who will not stand for freedom, their very salvation is in jeopardy?

When one reads the Constitution and compares it to all the unlawful laws imposed by politicians, one gets a better view and understanding of just what tyranny looks like and how we have given up freedom for security and in becoming sheep to the Government of his land and the bankers running it.

Someone please look up, "right to freely travel."

The Proper Role of Government by Ezra Taft Benson

Ezra Taft Benson had a driver's license. I think you are taking quite a bit of license (pun intended) with his comments to justify your frustration with your inability to find peace in your life within the greater context of our society/culture . If you really want to live in a lawless society, what you would consider "free", then you also have to give up all the benefits of living with all the things a government system provides such as roads/infrastructure, sanitation, fire/police protection (yeah, really easy to rail against the police until you need one of them to stop your crazy neighbor from stealing your stuff), common defense, money/banking systems, the internet (oh no, here we go!), electrical/energy/fuel distribution systems, etc., etc., etc. All of these things are possible because of government instituted laws that govern the behavior and conduct. The Lord recognizes this in the 12th Article of Faith. In case you've forgotten, and that includes driver's licenses, it states:

"We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."

I lived in places around the world where restrictive laws really do exist. Believe, the USA is not one of them. So unless you want to live in the middle ages, I don't think having to register my car or get a driver's license ranks very high on the things that bother me. Beyond that, I'm sold on indoor plumbing and like to have someone pick up may garbage from the curb once a week.

[freedomforall]

This thread was started as a discussion topic, not an instruction course.
I want people to respond that know laws coming from the Constitution and comparing them to the unconstitutional laws imposed onto the public by lame ducks that have no clue as to our proper privileges and rights.

While it is true that an article of faith may say to keep all the laws of the land...then it also tells us to support unconstitutional laws as well.

We as LDS's are supposed to learn the Constitution and uphold it, just as much we are supposed to learn and live gospel teachings. In essence, we are to still fight for freedom as much here as we did in heaven because the war is still ongoing.

For anyone that supports all the unconstitutional laws courts and crooked politicians have forced upon the nation, then those who are content to abide by crooked laws apparently are not concerned about the battle between good and evil...and those of us that have things in opposition to them are still in the battle.

I'm not here to sway anyone one way or another. I am here to provide food for thought. Even the prophets have warned about tares in the church having been deceived by Satan to become complacent and apathetic enough to just go with the flow. In other words, to neutralize the priesthood.

From: The Weighty Matters Of The Law A Plea for the Latter-day Saints to Awaken, A compilation by Mark E. Hudson 2006

The Saints Can Be Deceived

The Latter-day Prophets and Apostles are constantly preaching “the milk” of the gospel, even to life-long members of the Church. “Pay your tithing”, “do your home teaching”, “go to the Temple”, “love your neighbors”, “provide for and nurture your family”, “have Family Home Evening every Monday”, “read your scriptures”, etc., are all common themes and are all very important to not leave undone. While some may get tired of hearing it, it must be needed. If the Saints cannot live the basics of the gospel and stay away from pornography, gambling, worldliness, greed, abuse and violence on their own accord, then the Prophets musts pend their time on these very basic evils and constantly warn the Saints against them. This also means that they are not able to preach about the real “meat” of the gospel and the weighty matters of the kingdom. However, I will make the case that our leaders really are speaking of “the meat” to those who have ears to hear.

There are many wonderful and faithful Latter-day Saints who are doing many of the basic, righteous things of the gospel and yet are still deceived or “blinded by the craftiness of men”. How? It is very important to be obedient to the basics of the gospel as mentioned above. Without obedience to the“milk”of the gospel we will never have the Holy Ghost with us long enough to see clearly and not be deceived nor to ultimately get the “meat”.

We know from the scriptures that even the very elect will be deceived. Consider Joseph Smith Translation of Mathew 1:22:22

For in those days there shall also arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect....

Also in Doctrine and Covenants section 76 the Lord warns that many good men of the earth will go to the Terrestrial Kingdom because they were deceived:

71 And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn.....
75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.

Is it not possible for Latter-day Saints to be included in this definition of those who were “blinded by the craftiness of men” and hence will inherit the terrestrial kingdom because of it?President Benson apparently thought this could be the case when he stated:

“The Lord said that “the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.”(Luke 16:8) [From Benson’s Civic Standards For The Faithful Saints talk]“

President Marion G Romney also stated in a talk... ‘There is no guarantee that the devil will not deceive a lot of men who hold the priesthood.’”[From Benson’s Be Not Deceived talk in General Conference from the early 60s]

What are they talking about? Can the saints be deceived by pornography, immodesty, alcoholism, gambling, etc.? No! The Saints absolutely know that these things are wrong! Consider the very beginning, even the War in Heaven. What was it fought over?

The Battle for Free Agency Is Still Raging Today

In the pre-existence we were all involved in a fight for freedom. The fight was led by Christ on one side and Lucifer on the other. It was about Christ’s plan of free agency and freedom on one hand and Lucifer’s plan of force and slavery on the other. All of those who have lived in the flesh upon the earth were on Christ’s side in that pre-mortal battle and there we chose to support the plan of free agency. Of course after being born here on the earth we forgot all of what occurred in the pre-existence. We forgot the urgency of that battle in which we fought before we obtained our physical bodies. We were sent to the earth onto another testing ground, to see if we would again choose freedom and individual responsibility over dependency and slavery.

President John Taylor tried to warn the Saints about this important and vital part of the gospel that most leave undone. He said:

“....As we have progressed the mist has been removed, and in relation to these matters, the Elders of Israel begin to understand that they have something to do with the world politically as well as religiously, that it is as much their duty to study correct political principles as well as religious, and to seek to know and comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn and be able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the interest of the world.”(1862, JD-9:340)

President Taylor also said:

“Do you not think that we need revelations about government as much as anything else? I think we do. I think we need God to dictate to us as much in our national and social affairs as in church matters.” (1872, JD-15:175-6)

President Ezra Taft Benson said the following in the April 1965 General Conference: “As important as are all other principles of the gospel, it was the freedom issue which determined whether you received a body. To have been on the wrong side of the freedom issue during the war in heaven meant eternal damnation. How then can Latter-day Saints expect to be on the wrong side in this life and escape the eternal consequences? The war in heaven is raging on earth today. The issues are the same: Shall men be compelled to do what others claim is for their best welfare or will they heed the counsel of the prophet and preserve their freedom?”

President Benson also said this in his book An Enemy Hath Done This, pg 313-317:

“Satan is anxious to neutralize the inspired counsel of the Prophet and hence keep the priesthood off balance, ineffective and inert in the fight for freedom. He does this through diverse means, including the use of perverse reasoning. For example, he will argue, “There is no need to get involved in the fight for freedom – all you need to do is live the gospel. ”Of course this is a contradiction, because we cannot fully live the gospel and not be involved in the fight for freedom.“

The cause of freedom is a most basic part of our religion”....

“Sometimes from behind the pulpit, in our classrooms, in our council meetings, and in our Church publications, we hear, read or witness things that do not square with the truth. This is especially true where freedom is involved. Now do not let this serve as an excuse for your own wrongdoing. The Lord is letting the wheat and the tares mature before he fully purges the Church. He is also testing you to see if you will be misled. The devil is trying to deceive the very elect.”[End of Benson quote]

These are very powerful words for sure and Presidents Benson and Taylor weren’t the only latter-day prophets to speak about these things. All of the Latter-day Prophets have spoken about divine involvement in the founding of the United States of America and the Constitution. They have all honored our nation’s Founding Fathers as being inspired of God. President George Albert Smith said “The Constitution is as much from my heavenly Father as the Ten Commandments”. In today’s lessons from the pulpit, classrooms, and/or council meetings it seems that not a word about these freedom issues is ever uttered. There is much happening in the world as we speak to be commented upon when it comes to our free agency which is under direct attack.

The Constitution was given to us by God to protect mankind in their rights and allow them to enjoy these God-given rights of life, liberty and property. In the Doctrine and Covenants the Lord revealed the very importance of proper Government in our lives and our responsibility in maintaining it. Consider D&C 134:1-2:

1 WE believe that governments were instituted of God for the benefit of man; and that he holds men accountable for their acts in relation to them, both in making laws and administering them, for the good and safety of society.
2 We believe that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are framed and held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life.
3 We believe that all governments necessarily require civil officers and magistrates to enforce the laws of the same; and that such as will administer the law in equity and justice should be sought for and upheld by the voice of the people....

Remember this scripture later on. It is very important to keep in mind. The Lord also told us which law was established by Him for the government of His peoples upon the land of America, the promised-land. Consider these scriptures in the Doctrine and Covenants:

D&C 98:6-7

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;
7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.

This scripture clearly states that any law which is outside the scope of the Constitution is evil. Now comes the great taboo subject in all of the Church today – “politics”.

[freedomforall]

From: The Weighty Matters Of The Law A Plea for the Latter-day Saints to Awaken, A compilation by Mark E. Hudson 2006

You Cannot Separate Politics from Religion

Could the Latter-day Saints’ political beliefs be a source of potential deception among them and be leading to their condemnation? The answer to this question has been the subject of many of the teachings of latter-day prophets. Consider the following: “Next to being one in worshipping God, there is nothing in this world upon which this Church should be more united than in upholding and defending the Constitution of the United States!” (David O. McKay)

Again from President Benson’s Be Not Deceived talk given in the early 60s

“President Marion G Romney stated in a talk... ‘there is no guarantee that the devil will not deceive a lot of men who hold the priesthood.’ Then, after referring to a talk on free agency by President McKay, Elder Romney states,‘...Free agency is the principle against which Satan waged his war in heaven. It is still the front on which he makes his most furious, devious, and persistent attacks.’

“And then after quoting the scripture from the Pearl of Great Price regarding the war in heaven over free agency (Moses 4:1-4) Elder Romney continues: ‘You see, at the time he was cast out of heaven, his objective was (and still is) ‘to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will. ’ This he effectively does to as many as will not hearken unto the voice of God. His main attack is still on free agency. When he can get men to yield their agency, he has them well on the way to captivity.’[i.e. the USA Patriot Act]

“We who hold the priesthood must beware concerning ourselves, that we do not fall into the traps he lays to rob us of our freedom. It is not enough for us to be We must be careful that we are not led to accept or support in any way any organization, cause or measure which, in its remotest effect, would jeopardize free agency, whether it be in politics, government, religion, employment, education, or any other field. sincere in what we support. We must be right!” [End of Benson quote]

To reinforce the importance of this “political” theme, President Benson said this in his Civic Standards for the Faithful Saints talk in 1972:

“We honor our founding fathers of this republic for the same reason. God raised up these patriotic partners to perform their mission and he called them “wise men.” (See D&C 101:80.) The First Presidency acknowledged that wisdom when they gave us the guideline a few years ago of supporting political candidates “who are truly dedicated to the Constitution in the tradition of our Founding Fathers.”

“The Lord said that “the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.” (Luke 16:8.) Our wise founders seemed to understand, better than most of us, our own scripture, which states that “it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority ... they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.” (D&C 121:39.)

“To help prevent this, the founders knew that our elected leaders should be bound by certain fixed principles. Said Thomas Jefferson: “In questions of power then, let no more be heard of confidence in man but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”
[End of Benson quote]

“But These Things Were Said By Dead Prophets”

Lest anyone think that these things were said back at a time when communism was a threat to our way of life and that we are no longer facing the same serious threats to our freedoms, consider the request given to us by our living Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley in his book Standing For Something:

“Teach them the beauty of freedoms – the marvelous freedoms established by the Bill of Rights, the first ten amendments to the Constitution of this nation...“

In leadership, in standing for principle, there is loneliness. But men and women of integrity must live with their convictions. Unless they do so, they are miserable....

“Never in the history of the world has there been a more profound need for leaders of principle to step forward. Never before, at least not in our generation, have the forces of evil been so blatant, so brazen, so aggressive as they are at the present time....

“We are involved in an intense battle. It is a battle between right and wrong, between truth and error, between the design of the Almighty on the one hand and that of Lucifer on the other. For that reason we desperately need men and women who, in their individual spheres of influence, will stand for truth in a world of sophistry... We need moral men and women, people who stand on principle, to be involved in the political process. Otherwise, we abdicate power to those whose designs are almost entirely selfish.” [End of Hinckley quote]

Is it not clear from this plea from our Prophet that the Saints need to be politically involved in these last days? However this involvement needs to be in the right cause and for correct principles.

In the statements that we have already reviewed, including when President Romney stated “It is not enough for us to be sincere in what we support, we must be right!”, it is clear that the Latter-day Saints must be careful that they do not unknowingly support that which is evil in the political realm.