Whether or not it is a commandment really doesn't matter. Do you want your wife to feel like it is her duty and threatened with consequences if she doesn't give to you, or do you want her to give to you joyfully without any hesitancy and full of love? She can't really do that if sex is one-sided and making her feel used or sexually frustrated. Sex is a gift meant to be given and received at the same time, so if one person is unable to receive, the giver should not give.brianj wrote: ↑March 23rd, 2017, 10:06 pmI am going to disagree with you on two points here. I'll start with you claiming there is no commandment to have regular sex. Look at 1 Corinthians 7:5. It isn't clear in the King James version of the Bible what's meant by "depart ye not one from another..." The International Standard Version translates that line to: "Do not withhold yourselves from each other..." The Holman translation says: "Do not deprive one another sexually..." Several other translations say something very similar to: "Do not deprive one another..."Sarah wrote: ↑March 23rd, 2017, 1:55 pm The commandment is no sexual relations with anyone or anything other than your wife, and for you both to multiply. You are not commanded to have regular sex. The Law of Chastity is more cut and dry and spiritually serious than how many children are attempted at conceiving, so this is an acceptable expectation in marriage - fidelity, and that children will be attempted at. With the commandment to multiply, and most women's desire to have children, at least that gives you sex during your marriage a few times. I know that is not what you expected out of marriage, but that is where the problem is, despite thinking that boredom is your wife's problem. Your wife might even think that her boredom with you is the problem, but it is your expectations and the way you are projecting that onto her that are really turning her off, and the pressure she feels to give and receive something that she cannot appreciate.
Here is how you can become not boring - Come up to her and tell her that you realize that you have been putting pressure on her to have sex/be intimate with you, and that you don't want her to feel pressured anymore. You want her to only do it if she wants to, and not feel ashamed or guilty about not wanting to be close to you. You then need to reassure her of that every time you give her any kind of physical affection. Start treating her like you did when you were dating with no expectations of anything physical, but get close enough that she will start to want that closeness. Take up a hobby together etc. That is how you can stop being boring.
When you finally do have sex, you need to focus on giving her that gift. This is not about you, but your focus should be giving a good gift that she can appreciate and not on receiving from her. If she cannot appreciate what you are doing, then you need to figure out what she does appreciate and love her that way. Love is about giving gifts that someone will appreciate. And sex is not a gift meant for one person to just give another. It should only happen if both can appreciate or "receive" it.
It seems pretty clear that Paul is saying we have an obligation to not refuse ourselves to our spouse. Verse 4 also seems pretty clear: "The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife."
Let me try another approach: Is it okay for us to intentionally hurt our spouse? Considering the evidence that withholding sex hurts both your husband and your marriage then are you hurting your husband and your marriage by withholding sex? After all, one of the easiest barometers to measure the health of a marriage is the frequency of sexual intimacy.
If you think it is okay to hurt your husband and marriage in this way then can I assume you also believe it is okay with you if your husband does things that hurt your feelings and mental well being?
The second thing I disagree with is the beginning premise of your last paragraph: "When you finally do have sex..." It is typical that as a woman ages, particularly after she's had the kids she desires, she loses interest in sex. If she decides that neither she nor her husband need sex, no matter what her husband does she may not decide to fulfill her marital obligation. And some women are just plain unreasonable; no matter what their husbands do it isn't good enough for them. These women often know that they are hurting their husbands but they think getting the impossible things they want is all that matters.
It is kind of like the commandment to give to the poor and needy. Are you obeying it grudgingly or are you doing it joyfully? If you are doing it grudgingly, it is not going to do you any good! So a woman giving to you grudgingly is not going to help her, except in maintaining your mood. Now maybe if she does it with an attitude of loving sacrifice, then that will be accounted to her as righteousness, but when a husband has this view that it is his wife's duty to sacrifice her body to him, and when she doesn't he withdraws his love, that is when the husband is going to be held accountable for withholding love from her to punish her for not sacrificing for him. It is no different than a wife who expects her husband to sacrifice more time than she is sacrificing. She too would be expecting an imbalance at her husband's expense.
A husband should not act like a poor person who feels resentful or angry that the rich man is not giving to him. Yes, the rich man is commanded to give, but that has no bearing on how the receiver should feel. The receiver needs to focus on giving - we all do - and not on receiving with an attitude of entitlement or with an expectation of receiving in payment for our giving. Love is about giving without expecting something in return.
My guess is that Paul's words were not meant to convey that there is a commandment to give sexually to your spouse. You are to stay and remain with each other. Most likely men have translated it to mean that because they want that to be the message. We have a culture of sexual entitlement. You read any marriage book or listen to any marriage seminar given by a man, and the message is that it is wrong to withhold sex, that a man deserves it, that it is the woman's problem, that sex is deserved for all the work you do or for all the listening/talking time you give your wife. Baloney! This message has been around so long that that is what everyone believes, and it is most likely one of the causes of the rising feminist attitude in women. Attitudes of entitlement and expectation provoke more of that from all parties. Selfishness in one sex begets selfishness in another - simple as that.
I would not interpret verse 4 to mean that we have no choice when it comes to how our partner will use our bodies. Rather I think it means that we are not allowed to stimulate or control our own sexuality. That our spouse is the only one allowed to control that power within us. It doesn't mean we must give into demands or even requests. Agency and freedom are what govern the giving and receiving of love. Compulsion has no place. Even when we make covenants, and receive commandments, the Lord ultimately wants us to obey for the right reasons. Not obey out of selfishness - wanting something in return for ourselves - or fear - fear of His love going away or of a punishment - but out of unselfish love for Him and for others.
You asked the question, "is it okay to hurt your spouse," and I would respond with the question, 'is it okay to hurt your child?" You have to be specific in what kind of hurt you mean. Is it hurtful to not give the child what he wants? Is it hurtful to put some boundaries on how much your wife can spend?
So you say, well it isn't hurtful to have some boundaries on spending, but it would be hurtful and selfish to deny her any money, and I would agree. It comes down to which actions of giving and receiving are selfish, and what are appropriate boundaries to have on giving. Boundaries are necessary if there is an imbalance that is causing one person to be selfish or more focused on self. And with sex, the appropriate boundary should be that if both husband and wife cannot receive with appreciation, then the gift should not be given. And that is why I try to keep hammering away the message that sex is a different kind of love gift than work, time, money, communication, or even non-sexual physical intimacy. It is completely different kind of gift, one that you cannot just give another to be loving. The giver must receive it at the same time.
Let me ask you a question. What do you tell your children to do if they want something? You teach them to ask politely right? And to not demand, or whine and complain if you refuse their request. Whining, demanding and expecting show a lack of respect for our agency as parents, and it shows in them an attitude of entitlement. But like our Father in Heaven, we like to be asked nicely, and see our children desiring our will above their own.
So, now the next question. If you want to be intimate with your wife, what do you do? Do you ask politely if she will be intimate with you? Probably not. You just start "giving" physical affection to her, which demonstrates my point. But are you really giving her a gift, or is that a request, expectation, or demand? If she is withdrawing from your affection it is because she is not interpreting your gift as a gift but as a request. You are better off just asking for what you want. She's more likely to give you what you want, rather than deal with your constant expectations to receive in return for your giving. But instinctively you know intimacy shouldn't be just about you, that she should enjoy your gifts, so you don't just ask. It would kind of be humiliating right? And that is why God requires that we ask - so we show our humility and respect for His agency. So that's why I keep saying, if she can't appreciate your gifts, stop giving those gifts because they are not gifts to her, they are requests or expectations. If you really love her you will give her things that she appreciates receiving. One sided sex is always going to be selfish if the receiver feels entitled to that. If she is willing to sacrifice for you, you better see if for what it is and that it is a great sacrifice. The better option is to make sure it is always great for her too or just don't do it.