Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

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Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by creator »

The forum rules have been updated. Read here.

I would be interested in your feedback, questions, comments, etc, regarding these forum rules changes.

As you'll see, I've simplified the rules a lot so that it's all boiled down into much fewer precise words. Keep in mind, just because some specific wording might be missing from the new rules, it doesn't mean something is now allowed that was once not allowed. The minimalist in me would rather give less rules and leave more allowance for the admin(me) and moderators to judge the application of the rules more on an individual case by case basis.

I want it to be more clear that all are welcome who can be respectful (respect for each other and also for the Gospel of Jesus Christ and principles of Liberty). The rules are mostly about how we are expected to treat each other. Most of the problems that arise on the forum are not related to any particular topic being discussed but rather how we discuss it and how we treat each other.

LDSFF is not a police state and never will be. And because of that I cannot guarantee people won't sometimes get away with violating the forum rules. It's the same as any proper justice system should be -> the "leaders" of a free people must rely on the people to bring forth the accused to be judged for the things they have done.

For what it's worth, these are some of the scriptures I had in mind while considering the rules changes:
”And see that there is no iniquity [on LDSFF], neither hardness with each other, neither lying, backbiting, nor evil speaking” (D&C 20:54)

From Alma 30:7: "..there was no law against a man's belief; for it was strictly contrary to the commands of God that there should be a law which should bring men on to unequal grounds..."

Joseph Smith said: "I did not like the old man being called up for erring in doctrine. It looks too much like the Methodist, and not like the Latter-day Saints. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be asked out of their church. I want the liberty of thinking and believing as I please. It feels so good not to be trammeled. It does not prove that a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine." (DHC 5: 340.)

We understand from D&C 121 that "Influence can or ought to be maintained by... persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned; by kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile..."

"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may." (Articles of Faith 1:11)
For those who might be wondering: "What's the deal?! Did you just remove a bunch of the previous rules statements to open the doors to anti-Mormons and those outside of mainstream LDS thought?"

Answer: LDSFF is not a good fit for anti-Mormons and most likely not a good fit for bitter ex-Mormons. LDSFF has always appealed to LDS outside of the mainstream. That's not going to change. It was created over 10 years ago primarily for those who found themselves "awakening to our awful situation" and that type of Mormon is definitely outside of the mainstream. I've also never claimed or pretended to be a "mainstream" Mormon. Before LDSFF, I participated on other forums (such as the Nauvoo forum) and found that there was no room for a Mormon like me. They didn't tolerate any discussion of secret combinations at all. Some forums had restrictions on political discussion in general and there wasn't a good LDS forum for constitutionalists. I found that there was a need for a forum that allowed discussion of the more controversial gospel topics - and thus LDSFF was born.

I would be interested in your feedback, questions, comments, etc..

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Re: Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by eddie »

I for one enjoy the format here and not being constantly monitored, even though I am in violation at times, well rarely, almost never.

I don't mind diversity in conversation, but some or one of those recently sent to outter darkness was and is very frustrating and blasphemous, please leave him there. Gotta go, I hear there's a party down there with the theme; " Glow in the Dark."

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Re: Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by Joel »

BrianM wrote: ...

I would be interested in your feedback, questions, comments, etc..
If you got rid of people that are constantly complaining about other forum members that could help lighten up your moderation load over time too.

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Re: Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by freedomforall »

Joel wrote:If you got rid of people that are constantly complaining about other forum members that could help lighten up your moderation load over time too.
And those on the forum who complain about others complaining about others? Weird cycle, huh? Makes a lot of sense if one doesn't think about it much. #-o

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Re: Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by Joel »

I view constantly complaining about other forum members as a form of ad hominem (perhaps BrianM has a completely different view about that) which I am totally cool with but apparently ad hominem is a no no according to BrianM's rules. My comment was not a complaint. I personally would like to see less censorship on the forum. My moderation preference would keep those that constantly complain plus the people being complained about and just ignore most complaints. I do not know the reason why the rules were re-worded but if the rule re-wording goal is to have the moderation work load lessen for the moderators then my comment on that is what it was.

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Re: Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by freedomforall »

Joel wrote:I view constantly complaining about other forum members as a form of ad hominem (perhaps BrianM has a completely different view about that) which I am totally cool with but apparently ad hominem is a no no according to BrianM's rules. My comment was not a complaint. I personally would like to see less censorship on the forum. My moderation preference would keep those that constantly complain plus the people being complained about and just ignore most complaints. I do not know the reason why the rules were re-worded but if the rule re-wording goal is to have the moderation work load lessen for the moderators then my comment on that is what it was.
What I see is way too much apostate speech, false doctrine being thrown into the good stuff, and people condemning the church and/or its leaders in one one way or another. Forum rules stated this was not to be. And I hope that remains in force. When I joined I assumed I could have some very, profound spiritual experiences, articulating a great love for the gospel and helping each other become one, in deed, in spirit and mind, of which, the Savior commands of us. There is not to be disputations and a wide variety of doctrines that just won't jive. Over time I have weakened and in many cases see that my testimony, and others, are not shared by people only wanting to rant and complain, instead of taking the bull by the horns and correcting the problem. Believe me, I had to as I was one of the worst Jack Mormons around.

Oh, ya, rules...I hope they will keep the ranting and non-canonized doctrine to a minimum. I, for one, can understand misunderstanding, questions and answer in a nice discussion. But being told we, all the way up to the First Presidency, are going to perdition for not living and believing a doctrine far removed from what we hear from the pulpit and in scripture certainly must be kept in check.

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Re: Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by ebenezerarise »

I've never had a problem with the forum rules here and I don't have a problem now.

What I have a problem with is how they are sometimes enforced ... (or are selectively enforced) .... or are enforced not at all.

I also suffer from split opinions on this topic. As a board administrator myself, I understand where the PTB here are coming from. But as a frequent reader and an infrequent poster I am annoyed at how the forum rules and their "enforcement" sometimes get in the way of discussions. It's maddening and I suppose that will just have to remain my problem.

I've averaged 1 board warning a year here. I'm shooting for a full year without offense.

Wish me luck.

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Re: Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by freedomforall »

ebenezerarise wrote: February 26th, 2017, 3:42 pm I've never had a problem with the forum rules here and I don't have a problem now.

What I have a problem with is how they are sometimes enforced ... (or are selectively enforced) .... or are enforced not at all.

I also suffer from split opinions on this topic. As a board administrator myself, I understand where the PTB here are coming from. But as a frequent reader and an infrequent poster I am annoyed at how the forum rules and their "enforcement" sometimes get in the way of discussions. It's maddening and I suppose that will just have to remain my problem.

I've averaged 1 board warning a year here. I'm shooting for a full year without offense.

Wish me luck.
God's house is a house of order. Shouldn't this forum as Latter-day Saints, strive to have a house of order as well?
Why, why do people sign up and bring chaos, false doctrine, apostate talk, rants against the church and/or its leaders and relentless breaking of rules because of wanting to gain followers. Do these types have free reign now?
Last edited by freedomforall on February 27th, 2017, 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The truth itself can no longer be banned

Post by Delight »

I felt the Holy Spirit when I read through the new "LDS Freedom Forum Rules" and the supporting scriptures. I approve of these changes!

Now the truth has a fair chance to be respectfully presented even if some find it uncomfortable.

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Re: The truth itself can no longer be banned

Post by freedomforall »

Delight wrote: February 27th, 2017, 12:27 am I felt the Holy Spirit when I read through the new "LDS Freedom Forum Rules" and the supporting scriptures. I approve of these changes!

Now the truth has a fair chance to be respectfully presented even if some find it uncomfortable.
Who's truth?

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Re: The truth itself can no longer be banned

Post by Delight »

freedomforall wrote: February 27th, 2017, 1:21 am
Delight wrote: February 27th, 2017, 12:27 am I felt the Holy Spirit when I read through the new "LDS Freedom Forum Rules" and the supporting scriptures. I approve of these changes!

Now the truth has a fair chance to be respectfully presented even if some find it uncomfortable.
Who's truth?

D&C 93:30-32

30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.
31 Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.
32 And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation.

Nobody owns the truth.

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Re: Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by Matchmaker »

My thoughts:

Disagreeing with what one might say is OK in my book, as long as it is done respectfully. Name calling, bullying, intimidating, shaming, and mocking another in the name of defending the Church, the gospel, the Priesthood, or its leaders is not OK.

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Re: Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by Maks1987 »

hey all the administrators of that forum and all other participants, i have joined recently and want to say thank for that community i joined, and ofc it was a good topic about rules and conditions about using that forum! Have a good day! lately I'm having a hard time with 'freedom' since I had an injury and sitting home now taking Biotropin for recovering faster.
Last edited by Maks1987 on May 22nd, 2017, 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The truth itself can no longer be banned

Post by Rose Garden »

Delight wrote: February 27th, 2017, 12:27 am I felt the Holy Spirit when I read through the new "LDS Freedom Forum Rules" and the supporting scriptures. I approve of these changes!

Now the truth has a fair chance to be respectfully presented even if some find it uncomfortable.
Nothing has really changed. So the truth has as much a chance to be presented as it was before.

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Re: The truth itself can no longer be banned

Post by creator »

Meili wrote: February 27th, 2017, 11:32 am
Delight wrote: February 27th, 2017, 12:27 am I felt the Holy Spirit when I read through the new "LDS Freedom Forum Rules" and the supporting scriptures. I approve of these changes!

Now the truth has a fair chance to be respectfully presented even if some find it uncomfortable.
Nothing has really changed. So the truth has as much a chance to be presented as it was before.
True.

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Re: Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by Silver Pie »

eddie wrote: February 23rd, 2017, 10:57 pmI don't mind diversity in conversation, but some or one of those recently sent to outter darkness was and is very frustrating and blasphemous, please leave him there. Gotta go, I hear there's a party down there with the theme; " Glow in the Dark."
Whoo hoo! :ymparty: I'm all for a party like that. *-:)

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Re: Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by marc »

It has been interesting to see the forum rules evolve over the years. Maybe one day soon, it can be reduced to the Golden Rule, or in other words, the two greatest commandments. But as some people do not really love one another, they cannot love God either, and therefore engage in reviling others. Or maybe they really just do not believe in the Golden Rule and weed themselves out. The less people love one another, the more rules are required to resolve conflicts. The more people love one another, the less rules are required.

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Re: Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by ebenezerarise »

freedomforall wrote: February 27th, 2017, 12:07 am
ebenezerarise wrote: February 26th, 2017, 3:42 pm I've never had a problem with the forum rules here and I don't have a problem now.

What I have a problem with is how they are sometimes enforced ... (or are selectively enforced) .... or are enforced not at all.

I also suffer from split opinions on this topic. As a board administrator myself, I understand where the PTB here are coming from. But as a frequent reader and an infrequent poster I am annoyed at how the forum rules and their "enforcement" sometimes get in the way of discussions. It's maddening and I suppose that will just have to remain my problem.

I've averaged 1 board warning a year here. I'm shooting for a full year without offense.

Wish me luck.
God's house is a house of order. Shouldn't this forum as Latter-day Saints, strive to have a house of order as well?
Why, why do people sign up and bring chaos, false doctrine, apostate talk, rants against the church and/or its leaders and relentless breaking of rules because of wanting to gain followers. Do these types have free reign now?
I have nothing against order...that's why I admit to trying to go a full year without a board warning.

Chaos is a naturally occurring event when you have different perspectives. It would be a pretty boring place if everyone was in the amen corner. Orderly, yes. But hardly helpful to anyone.

I don't view this recent emphasis on the rules as advantageous to any one particular group or mindset. I think you're worried about something.

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Re: Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by freedomforall »

Truth is only truth when the Holy Spirit validates or justifies it as such, otherwise some people's truth are only philosophies geared to trip up those with truth that the Holy Ghost has already validated.

So here is my stance right out of the get go, coming out of scripture, for this is truth.

Col 2:8
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Heb. 13:9
9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

D&C 123:12
12 For there are many yet on the earth among all sects, parties, and denominations, who are blinded by the subtle craftiness of men, whereby they lie in wait to deceive, and who are only kept from the truth because they know not where to find it—
.............................................................................................................................................
One man's truth is a detriment to another man's truth because one of these truths is not complete being filled with the precepts of men.

So where does this leave those with actual, to the point and accurate truth?

Helaman, Alma, Nephi, Amulek, Abinidi, Moroni, Ammon, Moses, Abraham, Noah and a host of other people taught truth, yet they were cast out, treated like mad dogs, called heretics, false teachers, etc. Nevertheless, they endured persecution for standing up for God's word.

If any doctrine taught on this forum cannot be validated and confirmed by the Holy Spirit of God...it is not truth.

This is how one is to teach:

D&C 43:15
15 Again I say, hearken ye elders of my church, whom I have appointed: Ye are not sent forth to be taught, but to teach the children of men the things which I have put into your hands by the power of my Spirit;

And this should be the goal of those teaching actual truth by the Spirit:

Moses 6:34
34 Behold my Spirit is upon you, wherefore all thy words will I justify; and the mountains shall flee before you, and the rivers shall turn from their course; and thou shalt abide in me, and I in you; therefore walk with me.

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Re: Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by freedomforall »

ebenezerarise wrote: February 27th, 2017, 7:00 pm
freedomforall wrote: February 27th, 2017, 12:07 am
ebenezerarise wrote: February 26th, 2017, 3:42 pm I've never had a problem with the forum rules here and I don't have a problem now.

What I have a problem with is how they are sometimes enforced ... (or are selectively enforced) .... or are enforced not at all.

I also suffer from split opinions on this topic. As a board administrator myself, I understand where the PTB here are coming from. But as a frequent reader and an infrequent poster I am annoyed at how the forum rules and their "enforcement" sometimes get in the way of discussions. It's maddening and I suppose that will just have to remain my problem.

I've averaged 1 board warning a year here. I'm shooting for a full year without offense.

Wish me luck.
God's house is a house of order. Shouldn't this forum as Latter-day Saints, strive to have a house of order as well?
Why, why do people sign up and bring chaos, false doctrine, apostate talk, rants against the church and/or its leaders and relentless breaking of rules because of wanting to gain followers. Do these types have free reign now?
I have nothing against order...that's why I admit to trying to go a full year without a board warning.

Chaos is a naturally occurring event when you have different perspectives. It would be a pretty boring place if everyone was in the amen corner. Orderly, yes. But hardly helpful to anyone.

I don't view this recent emphasis on the rules as advantageous to any one particular group or mindset. I think you're worried about something.
Are you saying that if everyone believed the same, it would be boring?

Ephesians 4:5
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism

2 Cor. 13:11
11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Moses 7:18
18 And the Lord called his people Zion, because they were of one heart and one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them.

Eph. 4:13 (11–14)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

27 Behold, this I have given unto you as a parable, and it is even as I am. I say unto you, be one; and if ye are not one ye are not mine.

Does this help?

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Re: Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by freedomforall »

marc wrote: February 27th, 2017, 6:43 pm It has been interesting to see the forum rules evolve over the years. Maybe one day soon, it can be reduced to the Golden Rule, or in other words, the two greatest commandments. But as some people do not really love one another, they cannot love God either, and therefore engage in reviling others. Or maybe they really just do not believe in the Golden Rule and weed themselves out. The less people love one another, the more rules are required to resolve conflicts. The more people love one another, the less rules are required.
Don't you mean "devolved?" We've gone from "doctrine not in line with official church doctrine will not be allowed" to "bring whatever you want, just be nice about it and to each other." Were going to have so many versions of truth that who is going to be able to sort it all out?
There are people who do not believe scripture as truth. But quotes from church leaders from 180 years ago seem to supersede scripture, like those who taught the Adam-God theory. How about pre-Adamites? How about multiple probations? How about Darwinism? Everything but the truth.

God doesn't change his rules to appease the voice of his people that can't or won't accept his truth, does he?
As a matter of fact, he will not allow one sin into his presence to dwell there. We either live up to his standards and laws or we end up in a hot seat.

So why would we have to discuss doctrines that do not fit into God's way of learning, but only causes chaos, contention and division due to the fact that some hard headed people have their own beliefs and have no intention of learning anything different, the truth from God, himself, that do not teach these other doctrines one iota's worth. I'm hardheaded in presenting God's truth, not man's

Does this mean that the TBM's have to find other pastures and leave the whirlwind behind? There is nothing like being told that posted scripture has no substance.

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Re: Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by marc »

Hi, FFA. I do not like to use labels, but since you have used the term TBM, no, nobody has to leave. I cannot for the life of me see how the two greatest commandments is the devolving of any set of rules. On the contrary, they are the two greatest commandments that Jesus Christ gave, both in the Old Testament and the New Testament. As a matter of fact the law and the prophets resulted from the Israelites failing to live the two greatest commandments. When people do not love truth and do not love God and do not love to keep God's commandments, but still profess to love Him, then it becomes expedient for a loving God to give them rules they have the capacity to obey, which if they think about, point to the two greatest commandments. If you love your neighbor, you truly would not covet anything of his. If you love you parents, you will honor them, etc, etc. It is easy to do all these things if the love of God is in your heart.

Furthermore, truth cannot be harmed. Therefore, if some people come here bearing false witness, truth is still not harmed. Only those who make liars of themselves and those without the Spirit. But only people without love toward men and God will revile them. However, if they are speaking truth and they cannot be understood supposing them to be liars, then again, they will be reviled by those who do not possess the love of God. Besides, the majority of the apostates have been driven out as has their secret forum. And those without love, who profess to love, just end up in the Outer Darkness Forum anyway. I don't know who you are referring to that does not believe scripture as truth. If it is that new person, Yod, I disagree. As a matter of fact, in my estimation, he not only understands them very well, but also very literally. I don't believe Jesus Christ minced words when He said the things He did and I believe we are to take His words, sayings and commandments very seriously.

Finally, because one may diligently follow the prophet, one is not absolved from seeking to learn and to understand the things Jesus Christ specifically taught and commanded. I have not yet found any conference talk where any general authority has told the membership that it is ok to stop obeying the commandments. As a matter of fact, in the D&C, the Lord placed the church under condemnation not only for taking the Book of Mormon lightly, not only to say but to do, but also the "former commandments." You see the Lord told the early saints they were too busy engaged in "jarrings, and contentions, and envyings, and strifes, and lustful and covetous desires among them; therefore by these things they polluted their inheritances." So you see, they could not have had the love God in their hearts and therefore did not love one another, breaking the two greatest commandments, or in other words, the Golden Rule. It is quite a simple concept to read, but for some reason, very elusive to Christianity and especially to us Mormons who claim to be so enlightened.
Last edited by marc on February 28th, 2017, 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by Robin Hood »

Where's the "thank" button gone?

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Re: Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by inho »

Robin Hood wrote: February 28th, 2017, 4:40 am Where's the "thank" button gone?
www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 5&p=770715
BrianM wrote: February 27th, 2017, 9:04 pm It's just gone temporarily.

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Re: Forum Rules Update (2017 Feb 23) - Discussion

Post by creator »

freedomforall wrote: February 27th, 2017, 8:06 pm..We've gone from "doctrine not in line with official church doctrine will not be allowed" to "bring whatever you want, just be nice about it and to each other." Were going to have so many versions of truth that who is going to be able to sort it all out?
That's your interpretation of it.
This is a forum for discussion of the principles of Liberty and the many topics encompassed in the gospel of Jesus Christ - which embraces all truth
Shouldn't that be sufficient?

I don't expect everyone to agree with each other.

From Alma 30:7: "..there was no law against a man's belief; for it was strictly contrary to the commands of God that there should be a law which should bring men on to unequal grounds..."

Joseph Smith said: "I did not like the old man being called up for erring in doctrine. It looks too much like the Methodist, and not like the Latter-day Saints. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be asked out of their church. I want the liberty of thinking and believing as I please. It feels so good not to be trammeled. It does not prove that a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine." (DHC 5: 340.)

We understand from D&C 121 that "Influence can or ought to be maintained by... persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned; by kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile..."

"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may." (Articles of Faith 1:11)

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