Should anyone get shot for providing sanctuary to illegal immigrants

[Silver]

What was that prophecy about troubles starting in Chicago? So if Chicago continues to defy Trump, should the national guard go there? Should anyone lose their life over this issue? I hope peace will prevail.

In Letter Sent Home To All Parents, Chicago Public Schools Promise To Obstruct ‘The Enforcement Of Federal Civil Immigration Law’
By Michael Snyder, on February 22nd, 2017

Chicago Public Schools
The Chicago public school system has decided to openly defy the president of the United States. More than 392,000 students attend public schools in Chicago, and on Tuesday a letter was sent home with each of those students telling their parents that Chicago schools will not “assist in the enforcement of federal civil immigration law”. In fact, the letter actually says that federal officials will not even be allowed “to access CPS facilities”. In essence, every Chicago public school has now officially been declared to be a “sanctuary” for illegal immigrants. If you would like to see the original document, you can do so right here. This is just another example of how deeply divided we are as a nation. The entire public school system of one of our largest cities is now in open rebellion against the president, and that is a very dangerous sign.

Of course Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel had already established a precedent earlier this year when he pledged to defy Donald Trump and to continue to keep Chicago as a “sanctuary city” for illegal immigrants. The following comes from the Chicago Tribune…

As President Donald Trump signed an executive order Wednesday to cut off some federal funding from sanctuary cities, Mayor Rahm Emanuel vowed Chicago would remain one and continue to protect immigrants from deportation.

“We’re gonna stay a sanctuary city,” Emanuel said in a news conference after Wednesday’s City Council meeting. “There is no stranger among us. We welcome people, whether you’re from Poland or Pakistan, whether you’re from Ireland or India or Israel and whether you’re from Mexico or Moldova, where my grandfather came from, you are welcome in Chicago as you pursue the American Dream.”

Emanuel makes it sound like you are “anti-immigrant” if you are against sanctuary cities. But that is not accurate at all. The truth is that America was built by immigrants, but for years we have had an immigration policy that is completely upside down.

We have allowed millions upon millions of people to pour across our borders illegally, but meanwhile we have made legal immigration a complete nightmare. I am familiar with the process that someone has to go through to legally immigrate to this country, and it is exceedingly complex and very expensive.

So we are keeping out the hard working, law abiding people that we should want to come here, but we have been keeping the back door wide open for criminals, gang members and those that are seeking to take advantage of the system.

What kind of sense does that make?

And the truth is that the Trump administration does not even want to deport all illegal immigrants. At this point, they are only focusing on those that have done something wrong, and that is very similar to the approach that was implemented under the Obama administration. The following comes from the Los Angeles Times…

Immigration officers were directed to focus first on deporting convicted criminals or those charged with crimes. But Kelly also freed them to conduct more raids in immigrant communities and detain people who don’t have criminal convictions.

Unfortunately, if you speak out against illegal immigration these days, it could cost you your job.

This is becoming one of the most hotly contested political issues in the nation, and as we have already seen there are a lot of leftists that are not afraid to openly defy the federal government.

Of course the truth is that it is already probably too late to try to turn things around. It has been estimated that there are well over 100,000 gang members in the city of Chicago alone, and a very large percentage of them are illegal immigrants.

[Matchmaker]

Nothing good is going to come from this open rebellion by the leaders of the sanctuary cities and the school districts in CA and Chicago. It is almost like the liberals in these areas actually think they can stage a coup against a sitting President and get away with it. That's treasonous behavior. Trump will never allow this country to be held hostage by domestic terrorists. President Reagan didn't. Do you remember what happened to the Air Traffic Controllers who defied President Reagan's orders to get back to work? They were all fired in the blink of an eye.

[eddie]

Sanctuary cities and states that harbor illegal immigrants,” White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer said at his daily briefing. “The American people will no longer be forced to subsidize this disregard for our laws.”

[samizdat]

Immigration is one of the issues that Constitutionally is FEDERAL and not at a state or local level.

I am all for simplifying the current laws. Guest worker program that is more accessible. Other visas which are more accessible. Stricter punishments for entering illegally. Marines, Army, and NG patrolling the border.

[lundbaek]

For several years now been very much concerned about immigration into the United States because of the influence many immigrants have exerted toward the transitioning of this nation from a constitutional republic, which I highly appreciate, into a centralized socialist state like those from which many of the immigrants come from. I believe I am on the Lord's side in wanting and working to retain our constitutional republic as it was intended to be maintained. I also believe that if lots more Americans had in past understood and tried to uphold the principles of the original US Constitution, most of the government-caused grief we are experiencing now would not exist.

The last statement from the Church HQ that I am aware of was that members should not enter a country without proper documentation and should not overstay their visa. But I think that once immigrants are in the United States, legally or illegally, we have a divinely mandated obligation to treat them with civility, yet in accordance with U.S. Immigration and other laws. It seems to me that the Lord, acting thru His Prophet and Apostles, may be enabling many of those here illegally to remain here. I may be wrong about this, but I calls 'em as I sees 'em. And the actions of a number of local Church authorities in the greater Phoenix, AZ area seem to have convinced many members here that amnesty and open borders are the Lord's will. And I don't think that is going to change anytime soon.

[Silver]

Anybody care to answer my question?
If, for example, the mayor Rahm Emanuel of Chicago, in rebellion against the federal government, declares his city to be a sanctuary and the national guard is dispatched to arrest him, AND Rahm resists by dispatching the city police force or the Illinois state troopers or the Nauvoo Legion (LOL), should the national guard shoot those defending the mayor? Should the defenders shoot back?

Lincoln, and those who advised him, were wrong to force the South to abandon their act of secession. If Chicago wants to be a sanctuary city, we should let them, but not with funding from the rest of us. They may have to divorce the rest of the state of Illinois to do so. They should leave the United States for certain. But why would we kill anybody over their desire to give sanctuary to somebody, no matter how wrong-headed their motivations may be?

[EmmaLee]

If Chicago wants to be a sanctuary city, we should let them, but not with funding from the rest of us. They may have to divorce the rest of the state of Illinois to do so. They should leave the United States for certain.

Agreed. They can foot the bill to build a wall around their own city and do what they want inside of that wall, and leave the rest of us alone.

[Juliet]

Anybody care to answer my question?
If, for example, the mayor Rahm Emanuel of Chicago, in rebellion against the federal government, declares his city to be a sanctuary and the national guard is dispatched to arrest him, AND Rahm resists by dispatching the city police force or the Illinois state troopers or the Nauvoo Legion (LOL), should the national guard shoot those defending the mayor? Should the defenders shoot back?

Lincoln, and those who advised him, were wrong to force the South to abandon their act of secession. If Chicago wants to be a sanctuary city, we should let them, but not with funding from the rest of us. They may have to divorce the rest of the state of Illinois to do so. They should leave the United States for certain. But why would we kill anybody over their desire to give sanctuary to somebody, no matter how wrong-headed their motivations may be?

I do not think anyone should be shot over this. It will cause a civil war.

[lundbaek]

I believe that Rahm Emanuel is doing far worse that rebelling against the FedGov. I believe he is part of the cabal that is trying to destabilize America and make it subservient to the NWO. I consider him a traitor to the United States. This issue is not just a matter of giving sanctuary to people who were encouraged to come into this country by traitors using them to destabilize the country. I see it as an engineered crisis to advance the globalists' plan for the NWO. The LEOs under Emanuel's command might have to make a choice to either stay on the job or quit. At least they would get to make that choice. I think that if a FedGov force is dispatched to arrest Emanuel in order to try to preserve this nation and meets armed resistance, the resistors will have made the choice to be part of the resistance and would be responsible for their death or injury. Bottom line: people may have to die protecting our freedom.

It appears to me that not many Americans realize what is really behind and involved in this globalist conspiracy.

[Silver]

I believe that Rahm Emanuel is doing far worse that rebelling against the FedGov. I believe he is part of the cabal that is trying to destabilize America and make it subservient to the NWO. I consider him a traitor to the United States. This issue is not just a matter of giving sanctuary to people who were encouraged to come into this country by traitors using them to destabilize the country. I see it as an engineered crisis to advance the globalists' plan for the NWO. The LEOs under Emanuel's command might have to make a choice to either stay on the job or quit. At least they would get to make that choice. I think that if a FedGov force is dispatched to arrest Emanuel in order to try to preserve this nation and meets armed resistance, the resistors will have made the choice to be part of the resistance and would be responsible for their death or injury. Bottom line: people may have to die protecting our freedom.

It appears to me that not many Americans realize what is really behind and involved in this globalist conspiracy.

You're right. Chicago and Emanuel don't really make for the best example in the scenario I was trying to construct, although it seems likely that Emanuel will try to something to destabilize the country.

Thanks for your comments.

[Watcher]

Since immigration is strictly the purview of the Executive Branch, Chicago is in rebellion against the Constitution.

[lundbaek]

At least as far back as President G.H.W. Bush, no president has honoured the president's constitutional responsibility to "take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed," ( Article II, Section 3 ) as they apply to illegal immigration. Illegal immigration is part of the globalist plan, and those presidents all supported the globalist agenda.

[freedomforall]

I believe that Rahm Emanuel is doing far worse that rebelling against the FedGov. I believe he is part of the cabal that is trying to destabilize America and make it subservient to the NWO. I consider him a traitor to the United States. This issue is not just a matter of giving sanctuary to people who were encouraged to come into this country by traitors using them to destabilize the country. I see it as an engineered crisis to advance the globalists' plan for the NWO. The LEOs under Emanuel's command might have to make a choice to either stay on the job or quit. At least they would get to make that choice. I think that if a FedGov force is dispatched to arrest Emanuel in order to try to preserve this nation and meets armed resistance, the resistors will have made the choice to be part of the resistance and would be responsible for their death or injury. Bottom line: people may have to die protecting our freedom.

It appears to me that not many Americans realize what is really behind and involved in this globalist conspiracy.

Which raises a question. Out of the complete population in America, what percentage of these people want freedom bad enough to fight for it? How many don't care one way or another? How many will become traitors and fight for globalism?
And if the Elders of Israel are supposed to save the Constitution, are they going to do it without the help of anyone else due to the fact that most patriots could be dead at that point if they are the minority in the first place?

[freedomforall]

Since immigration is strictly the purview of the Executive Branch, Chicago is in rebellion against the Constitution.

Name any government organization that isn't against the Constitution. BLM? FBI? Court Judges? Politicians all across the nation? Law enforcement officers? Harry Reid? Just ask the Bundy's and the Hammond's and the wife of Lavoy Finicum. Government overreach is everywhere.

Take a look at this: https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution ... order-zone" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And look where Chicago is!

The Constitution in the 100-Mile Border Zone


An excerpt:

The Problem

The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution protects Americans from random and arbitrary stops and searches.
According to the government, however, these basic constitutional principles do not apply fully at our borders. For example, at border crossings (also called "ports of entry"), federal authorities do not need a warrant or even suspicion of wrongdoing to justify conducting what courts have called a "routine search," such as searching luggage or a vehicle.
Even in places far removed from the border, deep into the interior of the country, immigration officials enjoy broad—though not limitless—powers. Specifically, federal regulations give U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) authority to operate within 100 miles of any U.S. "external boundary."
In this 100-mile zone, Border Patrol agents have certain extra-Constitutional powers. For instance, Border Patrol can operate immigration checkpoints.
Border Patrol, nevertheless, cannot pull anyone over without "reasonable suspicion" of an immigration violation or crime (reasonable suspicion is more than just a "hunch"). Similarly, Border Patrol cannot search vehicles in the 100-mile zone without a warrant or "probable cause" (a reasonable belief, based on the circumstances, that an immigration violation or crime has likely occurred).
In practice, Border Patrol agents routinely ignore or misunderstand the limits of their legal authority in the course of individual stops, resulting in violations of the constitutional rights of innocent people. These problems are compounded by inadequate training for Border Patrol agents, a lack of oversight by CBP and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, and the consistent failure of CBP to hold agents accountable for abuse. Thus, although the 100-mile border zone is not literally "Constitution free," the U.S. government frequently acts like it is.

[lundbaek]

https://needtoknow.news/2017/02/mexico-declares-war-us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Mexican President Pena Nieto cancelled his meeting with President Trump after Trump tweeted that there was no point in having the meeting unless Nieto was ready to talk about funding the border wall. Then Nieto made statements that, in more sane times, would be considered as a declaration of war. He said that Mexico would use its consulates in every US state to help illegal immigrants get taxpayer-funded benefits and to protect them while they reject assimilation into America, which amounts to an invasion by a foreign country. The Mexican President is supporting the globalist agenda of breaking down the US to the point where it cannot survive without UN permission and control." – (Sourece: G Edward Griffin, NeedToKnow.News website)

See also: https://needtoknow.news/2017/02/mexico- ... comment-16" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't consider Mexican President Nieto's statements as a declaration of war. But like recent previous Presidents of Mexico, he is anxious for the planned North American Union, which has been stalled by opposition, to come into being. It looks to me like the greatest/mot effective resistance to the NAU has been coming from the John Birch Society.

OK, who is G. Edward Griffin ? In my circle of friends and associates in the freedom battle, G. Edward Griffin is best known for his book THE CREATURE FROM JEKYLL ISLAND, an exposé of the Federal Reserve. Beyond that, he is a writer and documentary film producer, and researcher of topics affecting our liberties/freedoms.

[freedomforall]

https://needtoknow.news/2017/02/mexico-declares-war-us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Mexican President Pena Nieto cancelled his meeting with President Trump after Trump tweeted that there was no point in having the meeting unless Nieto was ready to talk about funding the border wall. Then Nieto made statements that, in more sane times, would be considered as a declaration of war. He said that Mexico would use its consulates in every US state to help illegal immigrants get taxpayer-funded benefits and to protect them while they reject assimilation into America, which amounts to an invasion by a foreign country. The Mexican President is supporting the globalist agenda of breaking down the US to the point where it cannot survive without UN permission and control." – (Sourece: G Edward Griffin, NeedToKnow.News website)

See also: https://needtoknow.news/2017/02/mexico- ... comment-16" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't consider Mexican President Nieto's statements as a declaration of war. But like recent previous Presidents of Mexico, he is anxious for the planned North American Union, which has been stalled by opposition, to come into being. It looks to me like the greatest/mot effective resistance to the NAU has been coming from the John Birch Society.

OK, who is G. Edward Griffin ? In my circle of friends and associates in the freedom battle, G. Edward Griffin is best known for his book THE CREATURE FROM JEKYLL ISLAND, an exposé of the Federal Reserve. Beyond that, he is a writer and documentary film producer, and researcher of topics affecting our liberties/freedoms.

[According to Brother Hancock, the Prophet Joseph Smith told him,] The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, “Let’s divide up the lands of the United States,” then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up—when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, “Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God.” Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were. (Life Story of Mosiah Lyman Hancock, 19-20)

My assertion is: just where are all these patriots, true Americans that believe in liberty and freedom, those who will fight to the death to restore and preserve it?

[Silver]

https://needtoknow.news/2017/02/mexico-declares-war-us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Mexican President Pena Nieto cancelled his meeting with President Trump after Trump tweeted that there was no point in having the meeting unless Nieto was ready to talk about funding the border wall. Then Nieto made statements that, in more sane times, would be considered as a declaration of war. He said that Mexico would use its consulates in every US state to help illegal immigrants get taxpayer-funded benefits and to protect them while they reject assimilation into America, which amounts to an invasion by a foreign country. The Mexican President is supporting the globalist agenda of breaking down the US to the point where it cannot survive without UN permission and control." – (Sourece: G Edward Griffin, NeedToKnow.News website)

See also: https://needtoknow.news/2017/02/mexico- ... comment-16" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't consider Mexican President Nieto's statements as a declaration of war. But like recent previous Presidents of Mexico, he is anxious for the planned North American Union, which has been stalled by opposition, to come into being. It looks to me like the greatest/mot effective resistance to the NAU has been coming from the John Birch Society.

OK, who is G. Edward Griffin ? In my circle of friends and associates in the freedom battle, G. Edward Griffin is best known for his book THE CREATURE FROM JEKYLL ISLAND, an exposé of the Federal Reserve. Beyond that, he is a writer and documentary film producer, and researcher of topics affecting our liberties/freedoms.

[According to Brother Hancock, the Prophet Joseph Smith told him,] The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, “Let’s divide up the lands of the United States,” then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up—when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, “Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God.” Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were. (Life Story of Mosiah Lyman Hancock, 19-20)

My assertion is: just where are all these patriots, true Americans that believe in liberty and freedom, those who will fight to the death to restore and preserve it?

I can tell you where they are. It's the man in the mirror or it's no one.

[freedomforall]

I can tell you where they are. It's the man in the mirror or it's no one.

How many of these people would be inclined to stand up for freedom?

SEE: http://www.worldometers.info/world-popu ... opulation/

[lundbaek]

I think very few Americans see the connection between illegal immigration and mass migration and further loss of freedoms.

[freedomforall]

I think very few Americans see the connection between illegal immigration and mass migration and further loss of freedoms.

Reminds me of a man sitting on a rock with his back facing a huge Rattle Snake, all coiled up ready to strike. Then the man turns about and gets a throat full of deadly fangs.

America is turning into that which some people think they're running from because they know nothing about the Constitution nor what's in it. How sad.

The immigrants that are coming here legally, and have done for many, many years, have a good idea of what they are coming here for. Most of them are hard working people, and willing to assimilate into American culture, whatever that is these days.

Those lame duck politicians and church people in AZ that have bleeding hearts for illegals coming into the land should have a copy of the Constitution sent to them and a strong demand that they read it, coupled with the scriptures out of the D&C where God tells them to learn and uphold it. Then asked if they think they're still going to heaven by ignoring their duty to preserve freedom.

[lundbaek]

Those politicians and church people in AZ that have bleeding hearts for illegals coming into the land are very much oblivious to the globalist movement/conspiracy, the effort to create a regional North American Union, and the conspiracy to use mass immigration to transition of this nation from a constitutional republic into a centralized socialist state like those from which most of the immigrants come from. They did not see evil in the actions of Presidents Bush and Obama especially in encouraging and facilitating the mass migrations, or even become aware of them. They are oblivious to the engineering and creation of the immigration crisis and how it is being used to advance global governance and the new world order. And most probably don't know what the new world order means or is about, nor know that a latter-day prophet warned members of the Church that "A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world."

[freedomforall]

Those politicians and church people in AZ that have bleeding hearts for illegals coming into the land are very much oblivious to the globalist movement/conspiracy, the effort to create a regional North American Union, and the conspiracy to use mass immigration to transition of this nation from a constitutional republic into a centralized socialist state like those from which most of the immigrants come from. They did not see evil in the actions of Presidents Bush and Obama especially in encouraging and facilitating the mass migrations, or even become aware of them. They are oblivious to the engineering and creation of the immigration crisis and how it is being used to advance global governance and the new world order. And most probably don't know what the new world order means or is about, nor know that a latter-day prophet warned members of the Church that "A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world."

Someone needs to tell them they cannot be saved in ignorance.

Doctrine and Covenants 131:6
6 It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance.

[lundbaek]

Can anyone explain how members baptized after October 1988 are supposed to know that "A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world, and/or how members baptized after October 1987 are supposed to know that "We must learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers." ? Seems to me these are among the best kept secrets in the Church.

[lundbaek]

I trust that most forum members are aware that the 2 above quoted statements were made by the Prophet, President Benson, during 2 Church general conferences a year apart, onein 1987 and the other in 1988. They have never to my awareness been repealed

[Silver]

Can anyone explain how members baptized after October 1988 are supposed to know that "A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world, and/or how members baptized after October 1987 are supposed to know that "We must learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers." ? Seems to me these are among the best kept secrets in the Church.

Perhaps even the very process of taking an interest in the issues surrounding liberty and agency require a special gift or talent. Some have it, but many don't. (I am sincerely hoping that my statement doesn't sound haughty or boastful. It's not intended that way. Many people, in and out of the Church, have gifts far greater than any I posses.)

As in many other things, the Book of Mormon is my guide, my measuring stick. For example, Captain Moroni wrote his Standard of Liberty on his coat and many instantly assembled to his side. Others were obviously aware of the dangers in their government/society, but for whatever reason they couldn't get motivated enough to do anything about it. The situation required a Moroni to stand up and resist tyranny.

Here are a few very informative verses in Abraham 3:
22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

So what made these souls noble and great and good? Given that a leader using unrighteous dominion is not good in God's eyes, I believe that the great ones are those who promote liberty, and its constant companion, accountability.

Now what you're asking is: why don't recent leaders focus on theses concepts more often now?
I believe that the Lord is in charge, and He has preached His sermons through President Benson, for example. Since we, the members of the Church, didn't listen, we don't get any more sermons. The good Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.

From the parable of the talents, we have this in Matthew 25:
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

That applies, don't you think, to this discussion?

Finally, even on LDSFreedomF where the focus on Freedom should be clear, we have people who defend Trump's decisions to bring members of the CFR into his administration. Straining at gnats, they want proof of 20 when if even a single member of the CFR were on board it should send a clear warning message. Why would some excuse the NWO taking root in Trump's administration? I guess we all have our varying degrees of tolerance of tyranny. The prophets might be tired of warning those who won't listen.