Is feminism turning men gay?

[RocknRoll]

.... but “choosing to be gay”? Nope, sorry but that is a trait that is inborn.

Are you sure? Why?

My experience is that I think I had a choice. Unless I misunderstand, Ezra is also a witness to this. For a third witness, you can turn to Milo... yeah the guy with the shocking comments about pedophilia, and man he's a mess. But:

“When the left tells you that people were ‘born this way,’ that was an invention. They came up with that in the 90s and the 80s to get at the religious right who were saying love the sinner but hate the sin, so the gay lobby thought, ‘Well what if we’re like women or blacks, what if we don’t have a choice? That makes them bigots,'” Milo claimed. “So they came up with this born this way thing, which really has no basis in science at all. All the science suggests that its a mixture of nature and nurture.”

AND

“Most of the reason I went gay is so I didn’t have to deal with nutty broads."

AND (I'll have to paraphrase because I don't have a transcript or the time to watch the video again:

"Men choose to be gay to be naughty... it can be a way of rebelling against parents etc."

So anyway, his opinion, based on himself and no doubt people he knows, is that the concept of inborn is baseless. Yet he is now gay and says he can't change it.

So, three witnesses. Ya gotta at least let that give you pause.

Yes, I’m sure. This is why…one of my three sons is gay. I raised him the same as the other two. We noticed a difference in him from a very early age. He tried everything he could to “not be gay”. He dated girls, he fasted and prayed, I gave him blessings. I held him in my arms one night as he pleaded with me, with tears running down his face, to “please take this away!” He absolutely DID NOT want to be gay. But he was. He was born that way. He has two uncles and a great uncle who are gay (notice a pattern here? Genetic maybe?) One uncle came off his mission and was sent to “reparation therapy” at BYU where they used shock treatment to help “get rid of the gay”. Didn’t work. It only made him suicidal. This same man once said to me…”Why would I choose to be gay? Why would I choose the persecution, the disgusted looks, the disappointment by my parents, and church leaders, etc.?” He absolutely did not choose to be gay. Because of these family members, my wife and I have come into contact with many LBGT individuals. NOT ONE has indicated that they chose to be gay, and I have no reason not to believe them. Could there be a few isolated cased? Of course. But that is not the norm as far as I’ve seen, and main stream science agrees with me.

[braingrunt]

Yes, I’m sure. This is why…one of my three sons is gay. I raised him the same as the other two. We noticed a difference in him from a very early age. He tried everything he could to “not be gay”. He dated girls, he fasted and prayed, I gave him blessings. I held him in my arms one night as he pleaded with me, with tears running down his face, to “please take this away!” He absolutely DID NOT want to be gay. But he was. He was born that way. He has two uncles and a great uncle who are gay (notice a pattern here? Genetic maybe?) One uncle came off his mission and was sent to “reparation therapy” at BYU where they used shock treatment to help “get rid of the gay”. Didn’t work. It only made him suicidal. This same man once said to me…”Why would I choose to be gay? Why would I choose the persecution, the disgusted looks, the disappointment by my parents, and church leaders, etc.?” He absolutely did not choose to be gay. Because of these family members, my wife and I have come into contact with many LBGT individuals. NOT ONE has indicated that they chose to be gay, and I have no reason not to believe them. Could there be a few isolated cased? Of course. But that is not the norm as far as I’ve seen, and main stream science agrees with me.

https://socialinqueery.com/2013/03/18/n ... asons-why/
https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/08/23 ... ansgender/

Science is starting to abandoning you. Even gays are starting to abandon you; that first link is from a gay site.
As Gays reach full acceptance, they, in increasing numbers, no longer need the false crutch, and can think more objectively about what happened to them.
I also saw another article with mainstream credentials a while ago, I no longer have the link... it was the same thing. Science is moving away from that belief. Gay people in the comments section were also saying, in a matter-of-fact way: yes, we all know things are far less black and white than the early politicized science used to say.

Your son, I can't speak to. But I'd go just the opposite of you, and say: the "born gay" if they exists, are the isolated case. I remember a quiz about "how gay are you", you know, along the lines of "which disney character are you". It had this as the opening statement, and I paraphrase: we are increasingly learning that very few people are purely gay or purely straight in their tendencies. Find out how you rate.

I'm sorry for your son's grief. Remember, I'm someone who is not totally without understanding either, with my history that I alluded to.

[Obrien]

Yes, at some point or another. After awhile habit takes over, and it's no longer a choice.

I'm not gay, so I assume they're "made" the same way I am - I prefer to eat too much, not exercise enough, drink too much soda and swear too often. All these preferences are ingrained vices I could change, if I had the desire to do so. I choose not to, so they remain my vices. Just like everyone else and their chosen vice(s).

So, when did you choose to be straight?

Every day. It's just an easy choice. I fail on the swearing choice every day. I'm not perfect.

So, every day you wake up and make a conscious decision to not be gay that day? Riiight. I guess you consciously decide to breathe that day as well?

No, breathing is an autonomic system - I don't have a whole lot of say about breathing. If I try to override the autonomic system, I pass out and my body takes over and starts breathing again. Where a man chooses to find his sexual outlet is a choice.

[freedomforall]

When were you given the ability to choose anything? You know, agency?

So, you’re saying that because we are given agency, we can somehow choose our own sexuality? I don’t remember choosing to be straight, do you? If so, I’d sure like to hear that story. I agree that because of agency, we can choose whether or not to participate in certain acts, but “choosing to be gay”? Nope, sorry but that is a trait that is inborn. Even the church doesn’t support the “choose to be gay” rhetoric any longer. Don’t believe me? Check https://mormonandgay.lds.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

The recent church does not support the church's previous position on gays. Don't believe me? Read miracle of forgiveness by Spencer Kimball. His position was certainly the church's position up until very recently.

I’ve read Miracle of Forgiveness. It was written before Spencer W. Kimball was a prophet. Most of it is very good, but some parts are harmful and some have been proven absolutely false. Why do you think it is no longer in publication? So, you’re one of those who believe past leaders over present? To each their own I guess. You probably subscribe to the Adam-God theory of BY and believe man has never set foot on the moon because JSF said “We will never get a man into space”.

Please, please don't get somebody started on this topic. Several people have already been on the forum and relentlessly promoted it. Talk about disputations...profoundly active.

[Join us]

So, when did you choose to be straight?

Every day. It's just an easy choice. I fail on the swearing choice every day. I'm not perfect.

So, every day you wake up and make a conscious decision to not be gay that day? Riiight. I guess you consciously decide to breathe that day as well?

No, breathing is an autonomic system - I don't have a whole lot of say about breathing. If I try to override the autonomic system, I pass out and my body takes over and starts breathing again. Where a man chooses to find his sexual outlet is a choice.

Is true attraction really a choice at all? I always figured you are attracted to someone or not; you really don't have much say.

[Obrien]

When were you given the ability to choose anything? You know, agency?

So, you’re saying that because we are given agency, we can somehow choose our own sexuality? I don’t remember choosing to be straight, do you? If so, I’d sure like to hear that story. I agree that because of agency, we can choose whether or not to participate in certain acts, but “choosing to be gay”? Nope, sorry but that is a trait that is inborn. Even the church doesn’t support the “choose to be gay” rhetoric any longer. Don’t believe me? Check https://mormonandgay.lds.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

The recent church does not support the church's previous position on gays. Don't believe me? Read miracle of forgiveness by Spencer Kimball. His position was certainly the church's position up until very recently.

I’ve read Miracle of Forgiveness. Me too. It was written before Spencer W. Kimball was a prophet. Negative. SWK wrote the book long after becoming an apostle, and apostles are routinely sustained as PROPHETS seer and revelators. He never changed his position on sodomy (hetero or homo) after he became THE Prophet. Most of it is very good, but some parts are harmful and some have been proven absolutely false. It might be very good, but it was simply his attempt to clarify and codify his understanding of the gospel in the book. It really has no bearing on whether a particular thing is "good" or "bad" except where it reiterates the teachings of Jesus.Why do you think it is no longer in publication? It's probably out of print because he takes too firm a position on moral issues that are no longer considered immoral. Times have changed, and no one wants to hear about an old prophet's musings on sin and repentance when we have such scintillating modern teachings to consider. So, you’re one of those who believe past leaders over present? No - I take all the writings of all PSRs with an equally large grain of salt. To each their own I guess. You probably subscribe to the Adam-God theory of BY and believe man has never set foot on the moon because JSF said “We will never get a man into space”. BY and JFS both put forth their own ideas about whatever crossed their minds - I certainly do not take either one as an authority I must submit to.

[Obrien]

Every day. It's just an easy choice. I fail on the swearing choice every day. I'm not perfect.

So, every day you wake up and make a conscious decision to not be gay that day? Riiight. I guess you consciously decide to breathe that day as well?

No, breathing is an autonomic system - I don't have a whole lot of say about breathing. If I try to override the autonomic system, I pass out and my body takes over and starts breathing again. Where a man chooses to find his sexual outlet is a choice.

Is true attraction really a choice at all? YesI always figured you are attracted to someone or not; you really don't have much say. Being attracted to a person is a whole different thing than acting on the attraction. I sometimes see very attractive women, but I am a faithful husband, so my actions are kept in check by my ability to choose what i consider a moral path. The higher law, as taught by Jesus, is to not even lust after a beautiful woman. Being "attracted", then acting on your base instinct, is to deny your ability to choose, your humanity and places you on the level of an animal.

[braingrunt]

I really think you can control attraction. I think common examples are age (too young), personality, and "already married" considerations, which many people have implemented in their minds. Many, on the other hand, have not implemented these and act like idiots in various ways, in the context of truth and current society.
There were people I considered beautiful at first, but learning more about their personality, YUK. Attraction destroyed by higher thought processes.
And in a more general sense, new attractions serve no useful purpose for a married man who intends to be faithful; and I have had mixed but nontrivial success in turning it off.

[freedomforall]

Ask a male Proctologist just how attractive the back end of other men are with an itching or painful mass of dilated veins in swollen tissue.

[Sirocco]

I really think you can control attraction. I think common examples are age (too young), personality, and "already married" considerations, which many people have implemented in their minds. Many, on the other hand, have not implemented these and act like idiots in various ways, in the context of truth and current society.
There were people I considered beautiful at first, but learning more about their personality, YUK. Attraction destroyed by higher thought processes.
And in a more general sense, new attractions serve no useful purpose for a married man who intends to be faithful; and I have had mixed but nontrivial success in turning it off.

If I based attraction mostly on personality I'd never find anyone pretty :))

[RocknRoll]

So, every day you wake up and make a conscious decision to not be gay that day? Riiight. I guess you consciously decide to breathe that day as well?

No, breathing is an autonomic system - I don't have a whole lot of say about breathing. If I try to override the autonomic system, I pass out and my body takes over and starts breathing again. Where a man chooses to find his sexual outlet is a choice.

Is true attraction really a choice at all? YesI always figured you are attracted to someone or not; you really don't have much say. Being attracted to a person is a whole different thing than acting on the attraction. I sometimes see very attractive women, but I am a faithful husband, so my actions are kept in check by my ability to choose what i consider a moral path. The higher law, as taught by Jesus, is to not even lust after a beautiful woman. Being "attracted", then acting on your base instinct, is to deny your ability to choose, your humanity and places you on the level of an animal.

You're conflating "attraction" with sexual orientation. Two very different things.

[freedomforall]

No, breathing is an autonomic system - I don't have a whole lot of say about breathing. If I try to override the autonomic system, I pass out and my body takes over and starts breathing again. Where a man chooses to find his sexual outlet is a choice.

Is true attraction really a choice at all? YesI always figured you are attracted to someone or not; you really don't have much say. Being attracted to a person is a whole different thing than acting on the attraction. I sometimes see very attractive women, but I am a faithful husband, so my actions are kept in check by my ability to choose what i consider a moral path. The higher law, as taught by Jesus, is to not even lust after a beautiful woman. Being "attracted", then acting on your base instinct, is to deny your ability to choose, your humanity and places you on the level of an animal.

You're conflating "attraction" with sexual orientation. Two very different things.

These are people who have control over their emotions:
A woman seeing an attractive man.
A woman seeing another attractive woman.
A man seeing another attractive man.

These are people on the edge:
A woman lusting after a man, yet not acting on the impulse.
A man lusting after a woman, yet not acting on the impulse.
A man lusting after another man, yet not acting on the impulse.
A woman lusting after another woman, yet not acting on the impulse.

These are people who have either lost all self control or choose this lifestyle outright. Born that way?
A woman seeing, lusting and going after an attractive man, say in a bar.
A woman seeing, lusting and going after an attractive woman, say in a bar.
A man seeing, lusting and going after an attractive woman, say in a bar.
A man seeing, lusting and going after an attractive man, say in a bar.

Sexual orientation may have nothing to do with attraction, lust or first time seeking. Once a person has either experimented, acted on that experimentation and then continues to stay on that path, then it may fall under "orientation." Not all gay-like activities are "because they were born that way."
People still have the agency to quash the desires or impulses to go against God. In other words, every soul is born with the Light of Christ, to know the difference between right and wrong.

[Fiannan]

Thanks Rocknroll, your post has cased me to have to agree with Freedomfroall. ;)

Your post:

You're conflating "attraction" with sexual orientation. Two very different things.

Here I think you are wrong because sexual attraction is absolutely a component in sexual orientation. Of course if a person does not act on it then there is no manifestation of the behaviors. Yes, there are men who are very much attracted to men but are married to women for any set of reasons. And there are women married to women who, if asked, label themselves heterosexual but just happened to have met someone they fell in love with of the same gender, but if they were to lose that person they would date men. So you have a complex set of behaviors and desires that make up what we call orientation. However, one cannot (at least in the psychological sense) desire relations with members of the same sex but claim that they are exclusively heterosexual, again, in the psychological sense.

[freedomforall]

Hey! What are you looking at?

[eddie]

Hey! What are you looking at?

I'm not sure

[JohnnyL]

The majority of people like RocknRoll's son had a traumatic experience that anchored wrong beliefs and feelings, and attracted the wrong kind of energy.

Healing the trauma and correcting the beliefs and feelings could change sexual attraction and orientation.

[Fiannan]

All people are bi-potential. The left knows this and the social engineers know this. Plastic bottles are not going to turn anyone gay but societal acceptance and promotion (daytime TV, music videos, movies and porn) can get young people thinking and that can lead to experimentation and eventually incorporating same-sex attractions.

[gclayjr]

There is a new book coming out that is getting a lot of press coverage about how President Obama made a life choice to choose to be heterosexual instead of homosexual

http://www.bookwormroom.com/2017/04/27/ ... sexuality/

The interesting thing is that none of the articles I have read seem to recognize is that this very fact destroys the whole gay transsexual argument. Barack Obama CHOSE to be heterosexual...it was a CHOICE!

While I am sure that for many, the desire for homosexuality may be very strong and hard to overcome, for others, it may be the choice because it is cool or popular.

So stop the pseudo scientific BS that homosexuality is biological, and not a choice!

Regards,

George Clay

[Fiannan]

In my own community is it pretty much more common for middle-aged women to leave their husbands for another woman than to leave for another man. I will note that it was a very solid Hillary for president area in 2016.

So why are women married to the same husband for years, some with kids, choosing lesbianism? It would have nothing to do with the way it is promoted in mass media, would it?

[JohnnyL]

There is a new book coming out that is getting a lot of press coverage about how President Obama made a life choice to choose to be heterosexual instead of homosexual

http://www.bookwormroom.com/2017/04/27/ ... sexuality/

The interesting thing is that none of the articles I have read seem to recognize is that this very fact destroys the whole gay transsexual argument. Barack Obama CHOSE to be heterosexual...it was a CHOICE!

While I am sure that for many, the desire for homosexuality may be very strong and hard to overcome, for others, it may be the choice because it is cool or popular.

So stop the pseudo scientific BS that homosexuality is biological, and not a choice!

Regards,

George Clay

Well, it's easy to choose to be heterosexual when your woman is a transgendered man. ;)

And you're right, the book doesn't help the LGBT movement.

I also wonder how much blowback Barry is going to get from his old buddies in Chicago...

[David13]

People say a homosexual can't change, but then they turn around and say that Bruce Jenner can "choose" to be a woman. Why, he wasn't "born" that way.

With a little surgery to the body, does a man turn into a woman? No.

Does cutting off any appendage turn a man into a woman? I don't think so.

But the same people believe Bruce Jenner is a woman because he "chose" to be one.
dc

[freedomforall]

Bruce-Jenner.jpg (66.7 KiB) Viewed 1128 times

Caitlyn-Jenner1.jpg (60.52 KiB) Viewed 1128 times

[Fiannan]

Heard that the name "Caitlyn" has plummeted as a name given to parents of newborns today.

[freedomforall]

Heard that the name "Caitlyn" has plummeted as a name given to parents of newborns today.

So parents of a newborn have a name change? And the newborn remains nameless?

[Thinker]

I believe some people can turn gay. Even psychology is starting to accept some fluidity to sexuality, for the majority of people.

It's inevitable in the progression of this evil, for people to lose interest in their victimhood.

Good point about victimhood - it’s disempowering - giving away response-ability & power.

Sexual disorders are learned, not inborn. There may be some who have temperamental characteristics that are stereotypical of the opposite gender, but that doesn’t equate to developing sexual disorders. Think about it - is pedophilia or one who prefere raping “inborn”? And consider societal consequences of saying that they cannot be helped because they’re “just born that way”? They are sexual disorders too.

Most (if not all) of the time, homosexual preferences arrise from either sexual abuse &/or family pathological relationships. Most babies are born healthy - and only develop problems later along with environmental factors.

In the clip below, JP explains the natural and good tendency of mothers to be protective of children - & fathers to be more encouraging them to explore the world and learn more. But sometimes, some mothers have such a desire to be needed as a protective mother - that they will treat their older children as if they were still helpless infants. They see the world in bipolar ways - either predator or victim. Such babying not only restricts their children’s progress but also fosters resentment or other dysfunction - like feeling smothered and repulsed by femininity.