It was only a matter of time....
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1077
It was only a matter of time....
It used to be that when you would say the name Denver, it meant either the city, or the dead singer. Now somehow everybody knows this new rockstar-of-ex-Mormondom guy by his first name, and he is even a rockstar even among Middle Way Mormons and Postmormon Mormon-Stories faithful since John Dehlin, a false prophet in his own right of a different sort, rolls out the red carpet for him and sings praises of him.
It has been an interesting ride watching this man's rise to fame, and watching the formerly solid people who were pillars of faithfulness around me fall for his sophistries. It has been interesting to watch the rise of the so-called Mormon Remnant from its infancy to its adolescence, among those who had the spirit of evil speaking of the Lord's anointed, who sought for the "easy path" to calling and election so they didn't have to bother giving deference and repsect and submission to the keys of the priesthood that those keys deserve, who have basically become yet another secret combination in the Church, some of them that think that they can maintain one foot in the Church, yet while secretly seeking for rebaptism under the hand of the rebaptizers, and secret fellowship with the new "remnant."
It was only a matter of time before Denver Snuffer produced his own scripture like all the false prophets before him. A more sophisticated and more cloven-tongued and cool-sounding scripture than that from Art Bulla and Terrill Dalton who are less-sophisticated deceivers, but just the same in substance and by the same spirit as that produced by them. And for those that follow the Exmormon reddits and message boards would know, now John Dehlin is singing his praises once again, and approaching him to have yet another appearance on Mormon Stories to talk about how he has produced this new scripture, and how only this man is prophesying, and how they claim the brethren are not, because there is no new "thus saith the Lord" revelations coming from the Mormon hierarchy to satiate the lusts of sign seekers.
It was only a matter of time. Now Denver has shown his true colors. He has now produced new so-called scripture. Now for those who will read this scripture and some kind of spirit speaks the "truthfulness" of it to them, those of us who have any kind of discernment from the Holy Ghost will know that they are misled by false spirits, as this man was misled by false spirits to write it in the first place. This man speaks and writes by some spirit other than the spirit of truth. Only those that actually follow the voice of the Lord will have discernment of such things in time to come, because the words in this new "scripture" will sound neat and sophisticated and desirable to those with the itching ears, who desire things that are poison to them, like the forbidden fruit of old was desired by Eve, when she became convinced that it would be good for her to eat it.
It was only a matter of time.
It has been an interesting ride watching this man's rise to fame, and watching the formerly solid people who were pillars of faithfulness around me fall for his sophistries. It has been interesting to watch the rise of the so-called Mormon Remnant from its infancy to its adolescence, among those who had the spirit of evil speaking of the Lord's anointed, who sought for the "easy path" to calling and election so they didn't have to bother giving deference and repsect and submission to the keys of the priesthood that those keys deserve, who have basically become yet another secret combination in the Church, some of them that think that they can maintain one foot in the Church, yet while secretly seeking for rebaptism under the hand of the rebaptizers, and secret fellowship with the new "remnant."
It was only a matter of time before Denver Snuffer produced his own scripture like all the false prophets before him. A more sophisticated and more cloven-tongued and cool-sounding scripture than that from Art Bulla and Terrill Dalton who are less-sophisticated deceivers, but just the same in substance and by the same spirit as that produced by them. And for those that follow the Exmormon reddits and message boards would know, now John Dehlin is singing his praises once again, and approaching him to have yet another appearance on Mormon Stories to talk about how he has produced this new scripture, and how only this man is prophesying, and how they claim the brethren are not, because there is no new "thus saith the Lord" revelations coming from the Mormon hierarchy to satiate the lusts of sign seekers.
It was only a matter of time. Now Denver has shown his true colors. He has now produced new so-called scripture. Now for those who will read this scripture and some kind of spirit speaks the "truthfulness" of it to them, those of us who have any kind of discernment from the Holy Ghost will know that they are misled by false spirits, as this man was misled by false spirits to write it in the first place. This man speaks and writes by some spirit other than the spirit of truth. Only those that actually follow the voice of the Lord will have discernment of such things in time to come, because the words in this new "scripture" will sound neat and sophisticated and desirable to those with the itching ears, who desire things that are poison to them, like the forbidden fruit of old was desired by Eve, when she became convinced that it would be good for her to eat it.
It was only a matter of time.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4426
Re: It was only a matter of time....
This would be more potent if it didn't sound exactly like the rhetoric of all the anti-Mormons, but for them target is not Denver Snuffer, the target is Joseph Smith. Replace Denver Snuffer and put in Joseph Smith and you sound like the typical anti-Mormon, making the same anti-Mormon claims.EdGoble wrote:It used to be that when you would say the name Denver, it meant either the city, or the dead singer. Now somehow everybody knows this new rockstar-of-ex-Mormondom guy by his first name, and he is even a rockstar even among Middle Way Mormons and Postmormon Mormon-Stories faithful since John Dehlin, a false prophet in his own right of a different sort, rolls out the red carpet for him and sings praises of him.
It has been an interesting ride watching this man's rise to fame, and watching the formerly solid people who were pillars of faithfulness around me fall for his sophistries. It has been interesting to watch the rise of the so-called Mormon Remnant from its infancy to its adolescence, among those who had the spirit of evil speaking of the Lord's anointed, who sought for the "easy path" to calling and election so they didn't have to bother giving deference and repsect and submission to the keys of the priesthood that those keys deserve, who have basically become yet another secret combination in the Church, some of them that think that they can maintain one foot in the Church, yet while secretly seeking for rebaptism under the hand of the rebaptizers, and secret fellowship with the new "remnant."
It was only a matter of time before Denver Snuffer produced his own scripture like all the false prophets before him. A more sophisticated and more cloven-tongued and cool-sounding scripture than that from Art Bulla and Terrill Dalton who are less-sophisticated deceivers, but just the same in substance and by the same spirit as that produced by them. And for those that follow the Exmormon reddits and message boards would know, now John Dehlin is singing his praises once again, and approaching him to have yet another appearance on Mormon Stories to talk about how he has produced this new scripture, and how only this man is prophesying, and how they claim the brethren are not, because there is no new "thus saith the Lord" revelations coming from the Mormon hierarchy to satiate the lusts of sign seekers.
It was only a matter of time. Now Denver has shown his true colors. He has now produced new so-called scripture. Now for those who will read this scripture and some kind of spirit speaks the "truthfulness" of it to them, those of us who have any kind of discernment from the Holy Ghost will know that they are misled by false spirits, as this man was misled by false spirits to write it in the first place. This man speaks and writes by some spirit other than the spirit of truth. Only those that actually follow the voice of the Lord will have discernment of such things in time to come, because the words in this new "scripture" will sound neat and sophisticated and desirable to those with the itching ears, who desire things that are poison to them, like the forbidden fruit of old was desired by Eve, when she became convinced that it would be good for her to eat it.
It was only a matter of time.
Why do I post this? I don't know, its just ironic I guess. My pet peeve seems to be special pleading. Sorry...
-Finrock
- AI2.0
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 3917
Re: It was only a matter of time....
I assume you are referring to his testimony of john article? Does he claim it is scripture or are his followers making this claim--I haven't been keeping up with Snuffer's activities lately.
I skimmed it. Do you really think Snuffer is having that much influence on anyone but his ardent followers? I thought he'd kind of lost his cache over the last couple of years that he's done little.
As for his testimony of John, When I read it, I didn't realize SNuffer was claiming revelation--I assumed he was writing something similar to Cleon Skousen's 'the last week in the life of the Savior' essay where he tells the events of Jesus' life with a more detail as he pulls info from the different sources. Personally I don't know how this guy is fooling anyone, this isn't new scripture, if that's what HE's claiming.
John Dehlin will give anyone time on his internet soapbox if he thinks it will undermine the LDS church.
I skimmed it. Do you really think Snuffer is having that much influence on anyone but his ardent followers? I thought he'd kind of lost his cache over the last couple of years that he's done little.
As for his testimony of John, When I read it, I didn't realize SNuffer was claiming revelation--I assumed he was writing something similar to Cleon Skousen's 'the last week in the life of the Savior' essay where he tells the events of Jesus' life with a more detail as he pulls info from the different sources. Personally I don't know how this guy is fooling anyone, this isn't new scripture, if that's what HE's claiming.
John Dehlin will give anyone time on his internet soapbox if he thinks it will undermine the LDS church.
- AI2.0
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 3917
Re: It was only a matter of time....
If I was Ed Goble, I'd be offended by your accusation. You sound like you are suggesting that Denver Snuffer is being persecuted like Joseph Smith was. And in suggesting this, you are equating the LDS church with those who persecuted and murdered the Prophet. That might be welcomed on a Remnant forum but not here. Denver Snuffer was excommunicated for Apostasy, because he WAS in Apostasy and was preaching apostate doctrine. They rightly excommunicated him and since then he's gathered a following of believers. He's no Joseph Smith Jr.--his efforts are to stand against the church Joseph Smith founded, so I completely disagree with you suggesting Denver Snuffer is some kind of martyr.Finrock wrote:This would be more potent if it didn't sound exactly like the rhetoric of all the anti-Mormons, but for them target is not Denver Snuffer, the target is Joseph Smith. Replace Denver Snuffer and put in Joseph Smith and you sound like the typical anti-Mormon, making the same anti-Mormon claims.EdGoble wrote:It used to be that when you would say the name Denver, it meant either the city, or the dead singer. Now somehow everybody knows this new rockstar-of-ex-Mormondom guy by his first name, and he is even a rockstar even among Middle Way Mormons and Postmormon Mormon-Stories faithful since John Dehlin, a false prophet in his own right of a different sort, rolls out the red carpet for him and sings praises of him.
It has been an interesting ride watching this man's rise to fame, and watching the formerly solid people who were pillars of faithfulness around me fall for his sophistries. It has been interesting to watch the rise of the so-called Mormon Remnant from its infancy to its adolescence, among those who had the spirit of evil speaking of the Lord's anointed, who sought for the "easy path" to calling and election so they didn't have to bother giving deference and repsect and submission to the keys of the priesthood that those keys deserve, who have basically become yet another secret combination in the Church, some of them that think that they can maintain one foot in the Church, yet while secretly seeking for rebaptism under the hand of the rebaptizers, and secret fellowship with the new "remnant."
It was only a matter of time before Denver Snuffer produced his own scripture like all the false prophets before him. A more sophisticated and more cloven-tongued and cool-sounding scripture than that from Art Bulla and Terrill Dalton who are less-sophisticated deceivers, but just the same in substance and by the same spirit as that produced by them. And for those that follow the Exmormon reddits and message boards would know, now John Dehlin is singing his praises once again, and approaching him to have yet another appearance on Mormon Stories to talk about how he has produced this new scripture, and how only this man is prophesying, and how they claim the brethren are not, because there is no new "thus saith the Lord" revelations coming from the Mormon hierarchy to satiate the lusts of sign seekers.
It was only a matter of time. Now Denver has shown his true colors. He has now produced new so-called scripture. Now for those who will read this scripture and some kind of spirit speaks the "truthfulness" of it to them, those of us who have any kind of discernment from the Holy Ghost will know that they are misled by false spirits, as this man was misled by false spirits to write it in the first place. This man speaks and writes by some spirit other than the spirit of truth. Only those that actually follow the voice of the Lord will have discernment of such things in time to come, because the words in this new "scripture" will sound neat and sophisticated and desirable to those with the itching ears, who desire things that are poison to them, like the forbidden fruit of old was desired by Eve, when she became convinced that it would be good for her to eat it.
It was only a matter of time.
Why do I post this? I don't know, its just ironic I guess. My pet peeve seems to be special pleading. Sorry...
-Finrock
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4426
Re: It was only a matter of time....
Being offended is a personal choice. You can choose to feel or not feel how you wish. The irony still exist regardless of how you might personally interpret my words and attempt to make them more than what they are. You can disagree with your strawman all day long...don't hurt me none. :))AI2.0 wrote:If I was Ed Goble, I'd be offended by your accusation. You sound like you are suggesting that Denver Snuffer is being persecuted like Joseph Smith was. And in suggesting this, you are equating the LDS church with those who persecuted and murdered the Prophet. That might be welcomed on a Remnant forum but not here. Denver Snuffer was excommunicated for Apostasy, because he WAS in Apostasy and was preaching apostate doctrine. They rightly excommunicated him and since then he's gathered a following of believers. He's no Joseph Smith Jr.--his efforts are to stand against the church Joseph Smith founded, so I completely disagree with you suggesting Denver Snuffer is some kind of martyr.Finrock wrote:This would be more potent if it didn't sound exactly like the rhetoric of all the anti-Mormons, but for them target is not Denver Snuffer, the target is Joseph Smith. Replace Denver Snuffer and put in Joseph Smith and you sound like the typical anti-Mormon, making the same anti-Mormon claims.EdGoble wrote:It used to be that when you would say the name Denver, it meant either the city, or the dead singer. Now somehow everybody knows this new rockstar-of-ex-Mormondom guy by his first name, and he is even a rockstar even among Middle Way Mormons and Postmormon Mormon-Stories faithful since John Dehlin, a false prophet in his own right of a different sort, rolls out the red carpet for him and sings praises of him.
It has been an interesting ride watching this man's rise to fame, and watching the formerly solid people who were pillars of faithfulness around me fall for his sophistries. It has been interesting to watch the rise of the so-called Mormon Remnant from its infancy to its adolescence, among those who had the spirit of evil speaking of the Lord's anointed, who sought for the "easy path" to calling and election so they didn't have to bother giving deference and repsect and submission to the keys of the priesthood that those keys deserve, who have basically become yet another secret combination in the Church, some of them that think that they can maintain one foot in the Church, yet while secretly seeking for rebaptism under the hand of the rebaptizers, and secret fellowship with the new "remnant."
It was only a matter of time before Denver Snuffer produced his own scripture like all the false prophets before him. A more sophisticated and more cloven-tongued and cool-sounding scripture than that from Art Bulla and Terrill Dalton who are less-sophisticated deceivers, but just the same in substance and by the same spirit as that produced by them. And for those that follow the Exmormon reddits and message boards would know, now John Dehlin is singing his praises once again, and approaching him to have yet another appearance on Mormon Stories to talk about how he has produced this new scripture, and how only this man is prophesying, and how they claim the brethren are not, because there is no new "thus saith the Lord" revelations coming from the Mormon hierarchy to satiate the lusts of sign seekers.
It was only a matter of time. Now Denver has shown his true colors. He has now produced new so-called scripture. Now for those who will read this scripture and some kind of spirit speaks the "truthfulness" of it to them, those of us who have any kind of discernment from the Holy Ghost will know that they are misled by false spirits, as this man was misled by false spirits to write it in the first place. This man speaks and writes by some spirit other than the spirit of truth. Only those that actually follow the voice of the Lord will have discernment of such things in time to come, because the words in this new "scripture" will sound neat and sophisticated and desirable to those with the itching ears, who desire things that are poison to them, like the forbidden fruit of old was desired by Eve, when she became convinced that it would be good for her to eat it.
It was only a matter of time.
Why do I post this? I don't know, its just ironic I guess. My pet peeve seems to be special pleading. Sorry...
-Finrock
-Finrock
- Rose Garden
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Re: It was only a matter of time....
None of us can make choices for other people. It can be really frustrating when we see other people doing things that we feel are terribly detrimental to them. And yet a great part of learning to become like God is to learn not only to allow this but to accept it in a spirit of peace and love.
When we focus on others' follies and seek to change them then we are immersed in bitterness. Bitterness is the opposite of sweetness. Sweetness comes from partaking of the fruit of the tree of life, or in other words, in repenting. When we focus on others' need to repent, we damn ourselves because we cannot repent for them and we are immersed in bitterness. But when we focus on our own follies and repent of them, then we know the sweetness above all sweetness of Christ's atonement in our life.
Heavenly Father and Jesus understand the bitter and the sweet and they choose the sweet. Satan, Lucifer chose the bitter and offer it to us in the form of accusation and condemnation, which is the bitter fruit. Interestingly enough, while none of us can repent for another or cause them to repent, Jesus is the one who made it possible for us to repent. He did this by not allowing himself to condemn us or seek to force us to change. Instead, he chose to suffer willingly for us. He chose a course exactly opposite the path of accusation. He took the condemnation upon himself so that we don't have to be damned under it's burden if we will turn to him. He suffered for us rather than wishing suffering upon us.
Anyone who sees those around them falling under a spirit of deception has the opportunity to be like Jesus Christ or like Lucifer. We can either choose the bitter and partake of the frustrating practice of accusation and condemnation or we can choose the sweet, doing nothing more than inviting others to choose good and suffering rather than requiring them to suffer. This choice will determine whether the fruit we partake of and offer to others is bitter or sweet.
When we focus on others' follies and seek to change them then we are immersed in bitterness. Bitterness is the opposite of sweetness. Sweetness comes from partaking of the fruit of the tree of life, or in other words, in repenting. When we focus on others' need to repent, we damn ourselves because we cannot repent for them and we are immersed in bitterness. But when we focus on our own follies and repent of them, then we know the sweetness above all sweetness of Christ's atonement in our life.
Heavenly Father and Jesus understand the bitter and the sweet and they choose the sweet. Satan, Lucifer chose the bitter and offer it to us in the form of accusation and condemnation, which is the bitter fruit. Interestingly enough, while none of us can repent for another or cause them to repent, Jesus is the one who made it possible for us to repent. He did this by not allowing himself to condemn us or seek to force us to change. Instead, he chose to suffer willingly for us. He chose a course exactly opposite the path of accusation. He took the condemnation upon himself so that we don't have to be damned under it's burden if we will turn to him. He suffered for us rather than wishing suffering upon us.
Anyone who sees those around them falling under a spirit of deception has the opportunity to be like Jesus Christ or like Lucifer. We can either choose the bitter and partake of the frustrating practice of accusation and condemnation or we can choose the sweet, doing nothing more than inviting others to choose good and suffering rather than requiring them to suffer. This choice will determine whether the fruit we partake of and offer to others is bitter or sweet.
- shadow
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Re: It was only a matter of time....
Except one was a true prophet and Denver isn't.Finrock wrote:
This would be more potent if it didn't sound exactly like the rhetoric of all the anti-Mormons, but for them target is not Denver Snuffer, the target is Joseph Smith. Replace Denver Snuffer and put in Joseph Smith and you sound like the typical anti-Mormon, making the same anti-Mormon claims.
-Finrock
In an ironic twist you're claiming Joseph Smith was a typical anti-Mormon because he rejected false doctrine and false prophets.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1178
Re: It was only a matter of time....
=))Finrock wrote:This would be more potent if it didn't sound exactly like the rhetoric of all the anti-Mormons, but for them target is not Denver Snuffer, the target is Joseph Smith. Replace Denver Snuffer and put in Joseph Smith and you sound like the typical anti-Mormon, making the same anti-Mormon claims.EdGoble wrote:It used to be that when you would say the name Denver, it meant either the city, or the dead singer. Now somehow everybody knows this new rockstar-of-ex-Mormondom guy by his first name, and he is even a rockstar even among Middle Way Mormons and Postmormon Mormon-Stories faithful since John Dehlin, a false prophet in his own right of a different sort, rolls out the red carpet for him and sings praises of him.
It has been an interesting ride watching this man's rise to fame, and watching the formerly solid people who were pillars of faithfulness around me fall for his sophistries. It has been interesting to watch the rise of the so-called Mormon Remnant from its infancy to its adolescence, among those who had the spirit of evil speaking of the Lord's anointed, who sought for the "easy path" to calling and election so they didn't have to bother giving deference and repsect and submission to the keys of the priesthood that those keys deserve, who have basically become yet another secret combination in the Church, some of them that think that they can maintain one foot in the Church, yet while secretly seeking for rebaptism under the hand of the rebaptizers, and secret fellowship with the new "remnant."
It was only a matter of time before Denver Snuffer produced his own scripture like all the false prophets before him. A more sophisticated and more cloven-tongued and cool-sounding scripture than that from Art Bulla and Terrill Dalton who are less-sophisticated deceivers, but just the same in substance and by the same spirit as that produced by them. And for those that follow the Exmormon reddits and message boards would know, now John Dehlin is singing his praises once again, and approaching him to have yet another appearance on Mormon Stories to talk about how he has produced this new scripture, and how only this man is prophesying, and how they claim the brethren are not, because there is no new "thus saith the Lord" revelations coming from the Mormon hierarchy to satiate the lusts of sign seekers.
It was only a matter of time. Now Denver has shown his true colors. He has now produced new so-called scripture. Now for those who will read this scripture and some kind of spirit speaks the "truthfulness" of it to them, those of us who have any kind of discernment from the Holy Ghost will know that they are misled by false spirits, as this man was misled by false spirits to write it in the first place. This man speaks and writes by some spirit other than the spirit of truth. Only those that actually follow the voice of the Lord will have discernment of such things in time to come, because the words in this new "scripture" will sound neat and sophisticated and desirable to those with the itching ears, who desire things that are poison to them, like the forbidden fruit of old was desired by Eve, when she became convinced that it would be good for her to eat it.
It was only a matter of time.
Why do I post this? I don't know, its just ironic I guess. My pet peeve seems to be special pleading. Sorry...
-Finrock
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4426
Re: It was only a matter of time....
The question of who is a true prophet and who isn't is irrelevant to the irony.shadow wrote:Except one was a true prophet and Denver isn't.Finrock wrote:
This would be more potent if it didn't sound exactly like the rhetoric of all the anti-Mormons, but for them target is not Denver Snuffer, the target is Joseph Smith. Replace Denver Snuffer and put in Joseph Smith and you sound like the typical anti-Mormon, making the same anti-Mormon claims.
-Finrock
In an ironic twist you're claiming Joseph Smith was a typical anti-Mormon because he rejected false doctrine and false prophets.
Let see here...how to respond to an empty assertion?
Let's try this one: No I'm not!
I like Meili's response. It's just about right. ;)
-Finrock
- shadow
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10542
- Location: St. George
Re: It was only a matter of time....
No, the irony I'm talking about still stands that you would claim Joseph Smith as an anti-Mormon for pointing out the false doctrines of false prophets.Finrock wrote:The question of who is a true prophet and who isn't is irrelevant to the irony.shadow wrote:Except one was a true prophet and Denver isn't.Finrock wrote:
This would be more potent if it didn't sound exactly like the rhetoric of all the anti-Mormons, but for them target is not Denver Snuffer, the target is Joseph Smith. Replace Denver Snuffer and put in Joseph Smith and you sound like the typical anti-Mormon, making the same anti-Mormon claims.
-Finrock
In an ironic twist you're claiming Joseph Smith was a typical anti-Mormon because he rejected false doctrine and false prophets.
Let see here...how to respond to an empty assertion?
Let's try this one: No I'm not!
I like Meili's response. It's just about right. ;)
-Finrock
- inho
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 3286
- Location: in a galaxy far, far away
Re: It was only a matter of time....
If you read it carefully (which I haven't personally done, I have better things to do), you notice that he has inserted his own ideas in it. So, it is not just a paraphrase.AI2.0 wrote: As for his testimony of John, When I read it, I didn't realize SNuffer was claiming revelation--I assumed he was writing something similar to Cleon Skousen's 'the last week in the life of the Savior' essay where he tells the events of Jesus' life with a more detail as he pulls info from the different sources. Personally I don't know how this guy is fooling anyone, this isn't new scripture, if that's what HE's claiming.
-
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1077
Re: It was only a matter of time....
Sorry, but Special Pleading would be a fair criticism if it were not for the Holy Ghost that leads those who have it with them to know who the true messengers are.Finrock wrote: This would be more potent if it didn't sound exactly like the rhetoric of all the anti-Mormons, but for them target is not Denver Snuffer, the target is Joseph Smith. Replace Denver Snuffer and put in Joseph Smith and you sound like the typical anti-Mormon, making the same anti-Mormon claims.
Why do I post this? I don't know, its just ironic I guess. My pet peeve seems to be special pleading. Sorry...
-Finrock
The Holy Ghost is the thing that makes the only difference in the world between all the claimants that there are out there, and it is especially required in order to discern the sophisticated ones.
So, I am not offended that you have chosen to try to label what I have said in this way, since I seldom choose to be offended, and I am trying very hard not to be like I used to. But I am only not offended, only because I choose not to be. You actually did give me reason to choose to be if I wanted to. But I lose the spirit too easy when I do that, and again, keeping it with me is the only thing that gives me any measure of discernment, because logic does not. It only helps when things are glaringly obvious. Logic is useful, and calling people out when they commit logical fallacies is fair when it is right. But fortunately for Mormons, we live in a reality where we have a more broad epistemology than the world does, and we don't just have to rely on logic and science for our truth, but also have the opportunity to get truth from the Holy Ghost if we choose it.
So, if it weren't for the fact that the Holy Ghost does not support Denver Snuffer, you would have a point, and indeed, it would be Special Pleading. But in fact, the Holy Ghost does not support him, and is not the source of his revelations. Therefore, your criticism, in fact, does not stand.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1077
Re: It was only a matter of time....
Well, we shall see soon, it seems, what Denver Snuffer's claim will be from his own mouth, but as it appears, his followers seem to be claiming that it is a revelation.AI2.0 wrote: Personally I don't know how this guy is fooling anyone, this isn't new scripture, if that's what HE's claiming.
John Dehlin will give anyone time on his internet soapbox if he thinks it will undermine the LDS church.
- Jonesy
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Re: It was only a matter of time....
I've been there. Was even planning on being re-baptized while continuing as a member of the Church. I've reconciled my beliefs with the Church now, and it's a miracle I have done so.
At first I took aims at Denver Snuffer. Since then I've taken a different angle, or have sincerely tried, in the way I approach these matters (whether politically or adversarially).
I've been there to some degree:
28…persecuted by those who ought to have been my friends and to have treated me kindly, and if they supposed me to be deluded to have endeavored in a proper and affectionate manner to have reclaimed me (JSH)
That's the angle we need to approach this. With love.
37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:(Luke 6)
If we err in doctrine, or whatever, we have to address those matters. Not attack or point fingers at them we think to be in error. It makes it that much more difficult to help on the other side and even makes them feel vindicated.
At first I took aims at Denver Snuffer. Since then I've taken a different angle, or have sincerely tried, in the way I approach these matters (whether politically or adversarially).
I've been there to some degree:
28…persecuted by those who ought to have been my friends and to have treated me kindly, and if they supposed me to be deluded to have endeavored in a proper and affectionate manner to have reclaimed me (JSH)
That's the angle we need to approach this. With love.
37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:(Luke 6)
If we err in doctrine, or whatever, we have to address those matters. Not attack or point fingers at them we think to be in error. It makes it that much more difficult to help on the other side and even makes them feel vindicated.
- Rose Garden
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Re: It was only a matter of time....
There is a statement at the beginning stating that it is a newly revealed account.EdGoble wrote:Well, we shall see soon, it seems, what Denver Snuffer's claim will be from his own mouth, but as it appears, his followers seem to be claiming that it is a revelation.AI2.0 wrote: Personally I don't know how this guy is fooling anyone, this isn't new scripture, if that's what HE's claiming.
John Dehlin will give anyone time on his internet soapbox if he thinks it will undermine the LDS church.
- Alaris
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Re: It was only a matter of time....
I think people are reading into this too much. It's a relevant point because too many mormons treat others exactly the same way we have been treated. If DS is wrong then let's state why rather than offering platitudes and accusations. Bringing forth scripture is a sign of both false and true prophets as is leaving the mainstream and starting with a small audience...etc etc basically cults are usually bad but sometimes are Jesus or Abraham or Joseph Smith. Me? I have no opinion on DS as my quest for truth and righteousness has never lead me there. But I would never reject someone for claiming new scripture without cause or trying the spirit. That's exactly what's wrong with so many Christians vs LDS. You may miss the sealed 2\3 portion when it arrives with that attitude.Finrock wrote:This would be more potent if it didn't sound exactly like the rhetoric of all the anti-Mormons, but for them target is not Denver Snuffer, the target is Joseph Smith. Replace Denver Snuffer and put in Joseph Smith and you sound like the typical anti-Mormon, making the same anti-Mormon claims.EdGoble wrote:It used to be that when you would say the name Denver, it meant either the city, or the dead singer. Now somehow everybody knows this new rockstar-of-ex-Mormondom guy by his first name, and he is even a rockstar even among Middle Way Mormons and Postmormon Mormon-Stories faithful since John Dehlin, a false prophet in his own right of a different sort, rolls out the red carpet for him and sings praises of him.
It has been an interesting ride watching this man's rise to fame, and watching the formerly solid people who were pillars of faithfulness around me fall for his sophistries. It has been interesting to watch the rise of the so-called Mormon Remnant from its infancy to its adolescence, among those who had the spirit of evil speaking of the Lord's anointed, who sought for the "easy path" to calling and election so they didn't have to bother giving deference and repsect and submission to the keys of the priesthood that those keys deserve, who have basically become yet another secret combination in the Church, some of them that think that they can maintain one foot in the Church, yet while secretly seeking for rebaptism under the hand of the rebaptizers, and secret fellowship with the new "remnant."
It was only a matter of time before Denver Snuffer produced his own scripture like all the false prophets before him. A more sophisticated and more cloven-tongued and cool-sounding scripture than that from Art Bulla and Terrill Dalton who are less-sophisticated deceivers, but just the same in substance and by the same spirit as that produced by them. And for those that follow the Exmormon reddits and message boards would know, now John Dehlin is singing his praises once again, and approaching him to have yet another appearance on Mormon Stories to talk about how he has produced this new scripture, and how only this man is prophesying, and how they claim the brethren are not, because there is no new "thus saith the Lord" revelations coming from the Mormon hierarchy to satiate the lusts of sign seekers.
It was only a matter of time. Now Denver has shown his true colors. He has now produced new so-called scripture. Now for those who will read this scripture and some kind of spirit speaks the "truthfulness" of it to them, those of us who have any kind of discernment from the Holy Ghost will know that they are misled by false spirits, as this man was misled by false spirits to write it in the first place. This man speaks and writes by some spirit other than the spirit of truth. Only those that actually follow the voice of the Lord will have discernment of such things in time to come, because the words in this new "scripture" will sound neat and sophisticated and desirable to those with the itching ears, who desire things that are poison to them, like the forbidden fruit of old was desired by Eve, when she became convinced that it would be good for her to eat it.
It was only a matter of time.
Why do I post this? I don't know, its just ironic I guess. My pet peeve seems to be special pleading. Sorry...
-Finrock
- Joel
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What Kind Jew Are You?
new scripture can happen depending on people beliefs
seems this is what happens in people's brains
seems this is what happens in people's brains
- gruden2.0
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Re: It was only a matter of time....
Did you read it? Hard to discern anything without looking at it, otherwise you're confusing discernment with bias.EdGoble wrote:It was only a matter of time. Now Denver has shown his true colors. He has now produced new so-called scripture. Now for those who will read this scripture and some kind of spirit speaks the "truthfulness" of it to them, those of us who have any kind of discernment from the Holy Ghost will know that they are misled by false spirits, as this man was misled by false spirits to write it in the first place. This man speaks and writes by some spirit other than the spirit of truth. Only those that actually follow the voice of the Lord will have discernment of such things in time to come, because the words in this new "scripture" will sound neat and sophisticated and desirable to those with the itching ears, who desire things that are poison to them, like the forbidden fruit of old was desired by Eve, when she became convinced that it would be good for her to eat it.
It was only a matter of time.
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Re: It was only a matter of time....
I love the Snufferite/Denver-Snuffer-fan comebacks. Entertaining.gruden2.0 wrote:Did you read it? Hard to discern anything without looking at it, otherwise you're confusing discernment with bias.EdGoble wrote:It was only a matter of time. Now Denver has shown his true colors. He has now produced new so-called scripture. Now for those who will read this scripture and some kind of spirit speaks the "truthfulness" of it to them, those of us who have any kind of discernment from the Holy Ghost will know that they are misled by false spirits, as this man was misled by false spirits to write it in the first place. This man speaks and writes by some spirit other than the spirit of truth. Only those that actually follow the voice of the Lord will have discernment of such things in time to come, because the words in this new "scripture" will sound neat and sophisticated and desirable to those with the itching ears, who desire things that are poison to them, like the forbidden fruit of old was desired by Eve, when she became convinced that it would be good for her to eat it.
It was only a matter of time.
- FTC
- captain of 100
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Re: It was only a matter of time....
Half the people in these forums write what effectively amounts to new scripture on a weekly basis.
In any case, it will be fun to have some new material to anti-prophesy against.
In any case, it will be fun to have some new material to anti-prophesy against.
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Re: It was only a matter of time....
I have recently walked away from the church but it has nothing to do with Denver. In fact, i have only read one and a half of his talks and there is nothing that is out of line with the doctrine of Christ.
So, you may be wondering why I have separated from a church I was true and loyal to? I hope that all of you, who are eager to persecute verbally those of us who have walked away, will be willing to listen to me so you don't make the mistake in thinking that DS is the cause for everyone's departure
The church forced me to choose between them and JS. There were things that did not set right with me here and there but I brought my views into line with the brethren because I believed they were true prophets.
However, when the leaders changed doctrine of children being baptized because of the sin of their parents, I knew their was something seriously wrong. They called it revelation after they were uncovered. However, I still kept going and praying for understanding. It never came, the only thing that come to my mind was the scripture to not forbid the children to come unto Christ.
Then... the letter urging all members to vote against any legislation that would allow the legalization of cannabis for recreational use was read in church! This should offend every member of this group. It does not matter whether or not YOU agree with the use or not, you do not have the right to dictate someone else's life.
It was then that I was lead to a book called Joseph Fought Polygamy that put the nail in the coffin for me. I despise this doctrine and have always felt it was wrong, because I knew JS was a true PSR and the BOM was true, I swallowed my feelings about it and continued on in my life as a faithful member of the church.
I have walked away from the church, fellowship with many DS followers and have found the greatest joy.
You want to condemn and point fingers at those who follow Denver as being mislead, you better look in the mirror. They are no more mislead than you are.
So, there you have it! I follow the doctrine that JS revealed. That makes me a true Latter Day Saint. My suggestion to all of you is cast the beam out of your own eye first.
So, you may be wondering why I have separated from a church I was true and loyal to? I hope that all of you, who are eager to persecute verbally those of us who have walked away, will be willing to listen to me so you don't make the mistake in thinking that DS is the cause for everyone's departure
The church forced me to choose between them and JS. There were things that did not set right with me here and there but I brought my views into line with the brethren because I believed they were true prophets.
However, when the leaders changed doctrine of children being baptized because of the sin of their parents, I knew their was something seriously wrong. They called it revelation after they were uncovered. However, I still kept going and praying for understanding. It never came, the only thing that come to my mind was the scripture to not forbid the children to come unto Christ.
Then... the letter urging all members to vote against any legislation that would allow the legalization of cannabis for recreational use was read in church! This should offend every member of this group. It does not matter whether or not YOU agree with the use or not, you do not have the right to dictate someone else's life.
It was then that I was lead to a book called Joseph Fought Polygamy that put the nail in the coffin for me. I despise this doctrine and have always felt it was wrong, because I knew JS was a true PSR and the BOM was true, I swallowed my feelings about it and continued on in my life as a faithful member of the church.
I have walked away from the church, fellowship with many DS followers and have found the greatest joy.
You want to condemn and point fingers at those who follow Denver as being mislead, you better look in the mirror. They are no more mislead than you are.
So, there you have it! I follow the doctrine that JS revealed. That makes me a true Latter Day Saint. My suggestion to all of you is cast the beam out of your own eye first.
- kittycat51
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Re: It was only a matter of time....
This is exactly was Christ was talking about in these days. This is a great example. It will get worse; even to a a point where the righteous saints will have to flee their towns escape to the Rockies.
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Re: It was only a matter of time....
Normally it is obvious to me when people are purposefully trying to lead people astray and do it in as coyly a manner as possible. In this case I just don't know. LB2012 might actually believe this. Which is the sadder situation?
- Jonesy
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Re: It was only a matter of time....
I get where you're coming from. But I think if we're going to move anywhere, it must be through the keys that have been passed on to those who now hold them. I know you probably don't believe in those keys anymore, but they we're passed through to Brigham Young and onward. God chose our leaders for better or for worse, and if there is one thing I know, it is that the gods that we know, don't make mistakes and they definitely don't lose. If proven otherwise, then they are simply not gods. But I testify to you that they are Gods and that this is His church, and there is nor will be other, and that the twelve apostles are His council and that the prophet Thomas S. Monson is his mouth piece. In other words, my spiritual compass tells me that they are leading us to Zion, but they may take a stop near the brink of hell (as Brigham Young said), not that they will lead us to hell, for the prophet of GOD will never lead his church astray. But that they will have to make a stop in the port of hell to drop some filthy souls that are heading that way. And others want to go to the celestial kingdom, that is those of those idolaters of Peter, Joseph Smith, Apollos, Paul,Hinkcley and Monson among others. But that is not their final destination.Libertybelle2012 wrote:I have recently walked away from the church but it has nothing to do with Denver. In fact, i have only read one and a half of his talks and there is nothing that is out of line with the doctrine of Christ.
So, my plea to you and to all others is to stay on the ship to Zion.