The EARTH is a globe! - and other truths: NASA, etc - as testified by the LDS Church

[Ungläubige]

For those who may have a testimony of the LDS Church and it's leaders -

there are many references to astronauts, space travel, orbiting the earth, the moon landing, etc. contained within talks by leaders and printed in official publications of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Can this be considered an official position on the Flat Earth vs. Spherical Earth debate?




References:

"Through the ages there have been many laws repealed, but we know of no divine repeal of the law of work. From the obscure life organs within the body to the building of the moon landing craft, work is one of the conditions of being alive." - Spencer W. Kimball, 1976
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng

"On July 20, 1969, astronauts landed on the moon, a planet located some 239,000 miles from the earth. Millions of people the world over witnessed this historic event on television and stared in amazement as the lunar module came to rest on the moon’s surface. All were thrilled when Neil Armstrong exited from the space craft and announced: “One small step for a man; one giant leap for mankind.” - Carlos E. Asay, 1990
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... d?lang=eng

"Brother Jake Garn, former U.S. senator, traveled into space with a team of American astronauts a few years ago. Recalling the view they had of the enormity of the heavens from the space shuttle Discovery, he commented that to orbit the earth is to recognize that we are all children of God and that the earth operates in obedience to God’s laws. He spoke also of the magnificent beauty of the earth from space and that it is absolutely breathtaking." - James E. Faust, 1999
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... m?lang=eng

"With seven and one-half million pounds of thrust pressing you back into your seat with three times your normal weight, you quickly pick up speed. By the time the fuel runs out, you want to be going fast enough so that centrifugal force will keep you in orbit—and that takes 17,500 miles per hour. Traveling at that speed is quite an experience. As we went into orbit, we traveled from Cape Canaveral, which is in Florida, to north of Boston in just over eight minutes." - Don Lind, 1985
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... d?lang=eng

"You thrill us to the center of our soul, whether that be the 21,000 here in the Conference Center, or multitudes in meetinghouses and chapels, or finally millions in homes around the globe, perhaps huddled around a family computer screen." - Jeffrey R. Holland, 2016
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... u?lang=eng

"The diversity of persons and peoples all around the globe is a strength of this Church." - Dieter F. Uchtdorf, 2013
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng

"Astronaut Gordon Cooper, while orbiting the earth over 30 years ago, offered this sweet and simple prayer of thanks: “Father, thank You, especially for letting me fly this flight. Thank You for the privilege of being able to be in this position: to be up in this wondrous place, seeing all these many startling, wonderful things that You have created.” - Thomas S. Monson, 1998
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... k?lang=eng

"Man has been to the moon and has sent spaceships to distant planets. Close to three hundred satellites have been put into an earth orbit 22,300 miles above the equator to expand television and telex communications and also to study and forecast weather conditions. Yesterday, and last night during the general priesthood meeting, we were able to reach by satellite more than half a million priesthood holders at the same time." - Jacob de Jager, 1983
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... y?lang=eng

"This story begins a very long time ago, long before the earth began spinning in its orbit, long before the sun began to reach its fiery arms into the cold of space, long before creatures great and small had populated our planet. At the beginning of this story, you lived in a faraway, beautiful place." - Dieter F. Uchtdorf, 2013
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng

"First of all, we see before us, Michael, our solar system: our sun, together with the earth and the eight other heavenly bodies that revolve around it. We see law, beauty, order, and perfection." - Ted E. Brewerton, 1986
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng

[SempiternalHarbinger]

fail

[Ungläubige]

"This earth on which we dwell is an individual planet occupying a unique place in space. But it is also part of our solar system, an orderly system with eight other planets, asteroids, comets, and other celestial bodies that orbit the sun. " - James E. Faust

[Kitkat]

Something about even the very elect shall be deceived.

According to the church and those who defend the corp, those were not prophecies, but opinions... If you have prophecy and actual revelation, all ears, otherwise they are like uncles telling stories...

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_ ... n_the_Moon" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We like what God is revealing to us, mysteries that enlarge the mind and soul.

[brianj]

Something about even the very elect shall be deceived.

According to the church and those who defend the corp, those were not prophecies, but opinions... If you have prophecy and actual revelation, all ears, otherwise they are like uncles telling stories...

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_ ... n_the_Moon" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We like what God is revealing to us, mysteries that enlarge the mind and soul.

You do realize that Don Lind, the fourth person quoted in the OP, was an astronaut who spent seven days on orbit as a mission specialist on STS 51-B? And that he was invited by President Kimball to address his space flight in the October 1985 general conference?

Satan must be so good at deceiving people that he can make the world appear to be a sphere and change the laws of physics so that someone who thinks they are flying in orbit above a sphere can somehow float above a flat surface. Amazing!

[cayenne]

here is a thread from awhile back. Joseph Fielding Smith seemed to think we never went to the moon.


viewtopic.php?t=8201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Plus as I added several videos on the flat earth thread, we have people at NASA, and certain world leaders saying we have never been out of low earth orbit. I don't think orbit itself is a problem for flat earth. I don't think the "globe" aspect is a problem for the flat earth either since the "dome" can go all away around making the earth still a "sphere." I don't even think the "flat earth" has to necessarily be non moving.

" From what I gather there is no doubt a major cover up is going on (like when the astronauts faked the earth view from their space capsule, and all the more recent cgi image garbage)...The truth probably lies in the middle somewhere as Joseph smith mentioned he liked to prove contraries. Sometimes both sides have right and wrong and it is in the middle, sometimes not.

[JohnnyL]

To answer some of the "moon" quotes, etc.--from the vaccination thread:

So you (and others in this thread) are saying that the First Presidency gave the 1978 [pro-vaccine] statement without any thought and were just following the world?

And even though most English-speaking countries have reversed dental policy and practice regarding wisdom teeth after numerous newer studies, the USA and the church follow the old standard (which shows they really don't follow science or truth on this matter, either).

There really wasn't much else back then other than the AMA, and no one questioned it. Most church leaders don't even question it now, I'd guess. Here, remember this from within a year:

“After a recent medical procedure, my very capable doctors explained what I needed to do to heal properly…
I decided to expedite the healing process by undertaking my own internet search. I suppose I expected to discover truth that my doctors were unaware or tried to keep from me… Of course, researching these things for ourselves is not a bad idea BUT… regarding truth I could rely on and instead found myself being drawn to the often outlandish claims of internet lore.
Sometimes the truth might seem just too straightforward, too plain, and too simple for us to fully appreciate its great value.
So we set aside what we HAVE EXPERIENCED and know to be true in pursuit of more mysterious or complicated information.
Hopefully we will learn quickly that when we chase after shadows we’re pursuing matters that have little substance or value.”
--President Utchdorf

Riiiiiiiight. That was a huge brain fart that smelled all the way over here. I'm sure many in the church felt as perturbed as I did when he said that.

In addition, the 12-step addiction program doesn't work.

The example of wisdom teeth is prime--new studies show something much different than what they require ("request") for missionaries. Even though most English-speaking countries have reversed dental policy and practice regarding wisdom teeth after numerous newer studies, the USA and the church follow the old standard (which shows they really don't follow science or truth on this matter, either).

I hate all the church cancer stories that make people out to be humble angels made pure by suffering and faith. To me that shows someone likely didn't do any research/ seeking for truth, and just put their lives in the hands of others to save them.

Church counseling is often less helpful, than more.

I could go on and on...

So, I'm not so keen on them stepping outside their callings as church and ecclesiastical leaders, and they realize it and that's why they don't want to do it.

If I needed a lawyer, I wouldn't mind hiring one of them. Or a heart surgeon, I'd be blessed to have Pres. Nelson operate. Or perhaps Pres. Monson's opinion on printing a book. Etc.

Have any of those had revelation on the moon landings? Anyone look at all the evidence? Of course not! But I don't expect it, and I don't expect to get all my temporal learning from them, either.

[cyclOps]

I dunno guys, I saw a sun dog today. You know, one of those rainbow things. I got to thinking, it's probably not what we've been lead to believe. It's most likely some LGBT protesters painting their colors up on the dome that surrounds the flat earth. It has to be, but don't ask how I know, I just do.

[Ungläubige]

here is a thread from awhile back. Joseph Fielding Smith seemed to think we never went to the moon.


viewtopic.php?t=8201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Plus as I added several videos on the flat earth thread, we have people at NASA, and certain world leaders saying we have never been out of low earth orbit. I don't think orbit itself is a problem for flat earth. I don't think the "globe" aspect is a problem for the flat earth either since the "dome" can go all away around making the earth still a "sphere." I don't even think the "flat earth" has to necessarily be non moving.

" From what I gather there is no doubt a major cover up is going on (like when the astronauts faked the earth view from their space capsule, and all the more recent cgi image garbage)...The truth probably lies in the middle somewhere as Joseph smith mentioned he liked to prove contraries. Sometimes both sides have right and wrong and it is in the middle, sometimes not.

"Some people also stumble over statements made by Church leaders that have turned out to be incorrect, not about doctrine but in their personal opinions. For example, President Joseph Fielding Smith (1876–1972) wrote in the first edition of his book Answers to Gospel Questions, “It is doubtful that man will ever be permitted to make any instrument or ship to travel through space and visit the moon or any distant planet.”

Later, following the Apollo moon landings and the death of President David O. McKay, Joseph Fielding Smith became President of the Church. At a press conference, a reporter asked him about this statement. President Smith replied, “Well, I was wrong, wasn’t I?”
https://www.lds.org/liahona/2015/03/whe ... e?lang=eng

From what I've seen, JFS thought we'd never "go" to the moon, not we never "went" to the moon. There is a difference there,

P.S. once you start admitting we can "orbit" and the earth is still a "sphere" - you really aren't talking "flat earth" anymore. Right?

[cayenne]

here is a thread from awhile back. Joseph Fielding Smith seemed to think we never went to the moon.


viewtopic.php?t=8201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Plus as I added several videos on the flat earth thread, we have people at NASA, and certain world leaders saying we have never been out of low earth orbit. I don't think orbit itself is a problem for flat earth. I don't think the "globe" aspect is a problem for the flat earth either since the "dome" can go all away around making the earth still a "sphere." I don't even think the "flat earth" has to necessarily be non moving.

" From what I gather there is no doubt a major cover up is going on (like when the astronauts faked the earth view from their space capsule, and all the more recent cgi image garbage)...The truth probably lies in the middle somewhere as Joseph smith mentioned he liked to prove contraries. Sometimes both sides have right and wrong and it is in the middle, sometimes not.

"Some people also stumble over statements made by Church leaders that have turned out to be incorrect, not about doctrine but in their personal opinions. For example, President Joseph Fielding Smith (1876–1972) wrote in the first edition of his book Answers to Gospel Questions, “It is doubtful that man will ever be permitted to make any instrument or ship to travel through space and visit the moon or any distant planet.”

Later, following the Apollo moon landings and the death of President David O. McKay, Joseph Fielding Smith became President of the Church. At a press conference, a reporter asked him about this statement. President Smith replied, “Well, I was wrong, wasn’t I?”
https://www.lds.org/liahona/2015/03/whe ... e?lang=eng

From what I've seen, JFS thought we'd never "go" to the moon, not we never "went" to the moon. There is a difference there,

P.S. once you start admitting we can "orbit" and the earth is still a "sphere" - you really aren't talking "flat earth" anymore. Right?

Ofcourse, this is why I hope we all do our own research because of mans opinions do vary.

When I study flat vs round earth, I do not limit myself to what NASA says, or some flat earth video, I take everything into account and make up my own mind. I believe the earth can still be a flat surface with a domed sphere going over and under with orbiting being a reality under our place in the dome in the sphere in which we have placed...(hense NASA and obama, etc saying we have never left low earth orbit)...and like all my research (especially against anti mormons who are infamous for taking things out of context) i always check the before and after of statements to fact check the context.

I can observe and repeat several experiments myself to see NASA's curve math is incorrect. Plus their cgi imagery is rediculous. They have the money and power and the clique to cover this up, and the motive. This goes for many other historical cover ups, wars, etc....millions of our brethren dead based on lies, history and conspiracy repeating in both scripture and secular history. It only takes a few in power to literally control millions, it really is that easy once you control the things below....(the masses allow this due to their own selfishness, and the elites manipulate this...)

I have been a researcher for a long time, and although the flat earth is relatively new to me, there is plenty of evidence a deceptive pattern of the adversary is taking place by the money clique. This same clique hates God, loves humanism, wants the masses debt enslaved, mostly if not totally controls hollywood, the banks, the Fed, the media, money supply, historical narratives, ACLU, funding to schools, pier reviewed journals, modern medicine, lies of evolution, etc all to attempt to de literalize scripture and create sickly dependent debt slaves whom doubt God and his reality.

Whether the earth is flat, round, oblate, or some other flavor, I have no doubt this subject like many others has the cliques stain on it. They lie to us alllllll the time, why would This subject be any different especially because this subject is directly involved in God? Once people sort through the info/dis on both sides I think a truth seeker will see another same ole pattern of the adversary emerging once again, etc

[Kitkat]

^^^^ yes! Seriously not only do they lie to us, but when they get caught they have worse excuses and cover ups than a 2 year old. Hillary anyone? I really don't know anyone in the flesh that trusts the government implicitly. So what is there to gain by lying about the shape and placing of earth? I could think of a few crazy scenarios and many of them involve Antarctica...

[cayenne]

^^^^ yes! Seriously not only do they lie to us, but when they get caught they have worse excuses and cover ups than a 2 year old. Hillary anyone? I really don't know anyone in the flesh that trusts the government implicitly. So what is there to gain by lying about the shape and placing of earth? I could think of a few crazy scenarios and many of them involve Antarctica...

Yes, lets fund an ldsff trip to Antarctic lol....I have a strong feeling if we could sneak by all those security forces (by the pact of many nations) we may just find we go until we stop, as in hit the dome Truman show style....it would be seriously cool though if some trust fund kid with unlimited money could somehow sneak by and film the whole thing and before "they" get him it could be downloaded to mass media.

Better yet, a Christian rich person sneaks people past security to convert doubters to God. Me thinks a whole lot of people would be sorely repentant if they could touch that dome. Oh, that's right, "they" can't have that!

[gclayjr]

I am sorry, I find this topic so ridiculous that I haven't followed all of the posts and threads, so I may have missed something. I am assuming that you are not arguing whether the earth is a perfect sphere, or somewhat pear shaped, but really whether it is flat?????????????

Somehow some of you think all of this astronomical evidence may be a conspiracy? I must say that I thought conspiracy folks went bat crap crazy when they started talking about how the crash of the airplane into the pentagon was an elaborate optical illusion propagated by... the CIA, the Illuminati or whoever... but flat Earth?

I have a simple question.

How can I take an Airplane flight from Philadelphia west to Auckland, New Zealand via Los Angeles. Then return continuing west via Charles De Gaul Airport in Paris France, back to Philadelphia, on this "Flat" Earth?

Regards,

George Clay

[Kitkat]

^^^^ yes! Seriously not only do they lie to us, but when they get caught they have worse excuses and cover ups than a 2 year old. Hillary anyone? I really don't know anyone in the flesh that trusts the government implicitly. So what is there to gain by lying about the shape and placing of earth? I could think of a few crazy scenarios and many of them involve Antarctica...

Yes, lets fund an ldsff trip to Antarctic lol....I have a strong feeling if we could sneak by all those security forces (by the pact of many nations) we may just find we go until we stop, as in hit the dome Truman show style....it would be seriously cool though if some trust fund kid with unlimited money could somehow sneak by and film the whole thing and before "they" get him it could be downloaded to mass media.

Better yet, a Christian rich person sneaks people past security to convert doubters to God. Me thinks a whole lot of people would be sorely repentant if they could touch that dome. Oh, that's right, "they" can't have that!

We'd have to do it secretly, maybe throw them off with some blue beam tech, so they think we are headed to one place, when in reality (maybe even access our own parallel realities to play them at their own game - see Mandela effect, esp. the JFK assassination which is just strange and has changed too much to be coincidence) we land elsewhere.

[shadow]

So it's the US government that started the conspiracy to deny a flat earth model?

If God dwells on a globe and if our planet is patterned after it then why would earth not also be a globe?

[cayenne]

I am sorry, I find this topic so ridiculous that I haven't followed all of the posts and threads, so I may have missed something. I am assuming that you are not arguing whether the earth is a perfect sphere, or somewhat pear shaped, but really whether it is flat?????????????

Somehow some of you think all of this astronomical evidence may be a conspiracy? I must say that I thought conspiracy folks went bat crap crazy when they started talking about how the crash of the airplane into the pentagon was an elaborate optical illusion propagated by... the CIA, the Illuminati or whoever... but flat Earth?

I have a simple question.

How can I take an Airplane flight from Philadelphia west to Auckland, New Zealand via Los Angeles. Then return continuing west via Charles De Gaul Airport in Paris France, back to Philadelphia, on this "Flat" Earth?

Regards,

George Clay

I understand where you are coming from. I know you as one of the most level headed posters here. I can assure you that I am no "conspiracy" nut as there are many ridiculous theories that give a bad name to real conspiracy. I love to do research, and I am first and foremost into God's principles and laws. I am no scientist. I am aware though of patterns of conspiracy over the histories.

When I first heard people actually believe the flat earth is real I actually chuckled. For fun I spent a little time looking at the claims, and I found myself seeing a pattern and some real science behind it. (I don't think you have to be a "scientist" to see real science) As for scripture, I am a literalist (unless it is obviously symbolism, etc) and I believe God when he says what he says. Scripture mentions many things that seem to fit a flat earth with a closed dome system, yet we have various versus speaking of spheres, globes, motions, yet one planet can be above another planet, etc.

My conclusion thus far (this is relatively new to me) is some combination of a flat surface and a domed globe. Basically a proving of the contraries or meeting in the middle so to speak. This subject I look at as being fun, and interesting and certainly regardless of the "shape" it has no bearing on my testimony of God and his scriptures.

As for your flights question. I myself and a private pilot, but a family member of mine flies commercially over the pacific. I asked him why when he flies from Lax to Hong Kong (for example) he flies over anchorage? see, on a flat model that route is really straight, on a round model going way up to anchorage is a long way out of the way. This is one example of many with routes.

Anyway, the first experiment I did was when I was on top of a 14000 foot mountain in Colorado. About 100 miles away I could see another 14000 foot mountain directly across from my eye line. According to the accepted curvature math, it should have been well below my eye line. Then I looked out over the flat plains of Colorado from the mountain, and it looked as if the ends were rising up which is a flat effect. (like in a tall building over a flat city, the further out you go, the more the ground looks like it is rising up to you instead of curving. Then I did some ocean experiments, and sure enough boats that disappear supposedly over the horizon are brought back into perfect flat view when zoomed in on. Then the list goes on and on.

since you are level headed, maybe you may want to look into this flat earth ordeal for fun, and have fun with it and see what you come top with You may find nothing fits for you, or you may find a ton of things fit, but hopefully you will enjoy the process

[Niyr]

What about private companies, who have satellites and have put rockets into space and their photos of a spherical earth? Or the guy who did the highest skydive a few years back?