Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

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Fiannan
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by Fiannan »

Elizabeth wrote:This thread which is available to all to read on the internet is hardly a support for the missionary programme of the Church. In fact I think it is a disgrace and should be deleted. If immorality is an issue for some, then those concerned should be counselled privately. In all my time as a member I have never known of any immorality within the Church. It is beyond understanding that anyone would be a member if their heart was set on immoral matters.
And that is the reason I bother to post on these endless threads dealing with pornography. I have known people who have found the inspiration to visit our Church services. And some have not been impressed. I know one teen who went and encountered the "Who wants to lick Candy the bad girl" lesson. That totally turned her off. I know someone else who, when she visited, heard a talk about how evil this kid felt about opening up a Playboy. Well, how do you think that went over?

I want people to understand this issue from a psychological standpoint. Yes, there are Mormons here who seem to be of the same stripe as Wahabbi Saudis who would cover a woman from head to toe to protect men from her evil and seductive body. of course there are others who would probably be okay with dating an LDS porn star, as long as she paid tithing on her earnings. I still think that if a non-member sees pornography dealt with in a rational manner, not excusing it, but not making it appear as a sin that will send you lower than the bankers get sent in Dante's Inferno. Porn is exploitive, yes. Porn is an extension of Hollywood, yes. And it does promote immoral lifestyles. Let us keep the debate in those areas and see how effective it will be -- the name and shame approach doesn't seem to have done so well, has it?

Finrock
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by Finrock »

simpleton wrote:In that case I disagree with the church
That is fine. I disagree with the Church on a number of things. Let me ask you this, though, simpleton and please answer honestly and with complete integrity:

Is there anything in your life that you have tried to stop doing, which you know is wrong, but you find yourself constantly falling short? Meaning, are there any weaknesses that you possess that you have yet to this day been unable to overcome despite you striving and despite your best efforts?

-Finrock

Finrock
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by Finrock »

Melissa wrote:
Elizabeth wrote:There are many degrees of perfection. Some, such as sexual morality and keeping the word of wisdom are basic requirements easy to achieve.
For you? For everyone?

This is a typical mentality of lifelong mormon culture members that comes accross as judgemental and non-accepting of people who come from a different life story than molly mormon types. Not everyone has had the "mormon" life, many people have some real crap dealt to them...if they are trying to conquer and improve and change to healthier ways, we should be happy and patient.

I wasn't sheltered at all growing up and I have found that I have very different views than the typical mormon and am suprised at how much misunderstandings, lack of compassion and straight judgement people can have.

If someone was dealt an abusive upbringing, what business does a person who had a safe loving home have in judging the other? They know nothing yet still judge.
Say a person is dealing with PTSD and started smoking again to deal with their anxiety...can you tell this person that it's easy? If you know anything about what's going on with this person individually, you wouldn't judge, you would love.
Melissa,

This what you wrote is the other perspective I have been driving at. I felt that in your other posts you have made some generalizations about men and porn use (I'm assuming you have had a spouse or someone in your life who has struggled with this and it has hurt you tremendously) and were making some hasty generalizations about why the porn problem exist and you were not taking in to account a wide variety of motivations, issues, backgrounds, and like which can contribute to why people do and act the way they do and that porn does not just exist because men are wanting to see or hook up with naked women. Women don't just get in to porn because men made them or want them do it. Or, I'm speculating, but even if all men were completely chaste and never looked at porn, I suspect based on what I understands about what motivates a person to get in to pornography, many women would still be involved and take part in pornography.

-Finrock

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Melissa
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by Melissa »

Finrock wrote:
Melissa wrote:
Elizabeth wrote:There are many degrees of perfection. Some, such as sexual morality and keeping the word of wisdom are basic requirements easy to achieve.
For you? For everyone?

This is a typical mentality of lifelong mormon culture members that comes accross as judgemental and non-accepting of people who come from a different life story than molly mormon types. Not everyone has had the "mormon" life, many people have some real crap dealt to them...if they are trying to conquer and improve and change to healthier ways, we should be happy and patient.

I wasn't sheltered at all growing up and I have found that I have very different views than the typical mormon and am suprised at how much misunderstandings, lack of compassion and straight judgement people can have.

If someone was dealt an abusive upbringing, what business does a person who had a safe loving home have in judging the other? They know nothing yet still judge.
Say a person is dealing with PTSD and started smoking again to deal with their anxiety...can you tell this person that it's easy? If you know anything about what's going on with this person individually, you wouldn't judge, you would love.
Melissa,

This what you wrote is the other perspective I have been driving at. I felt that in your other posts you have made some generalizations about men and porn use (I'm assuming you have had a spouse or someone in your life who has struggled with this and it has hurt you tremendously) and were making some hasty generalizations about why the porn problem exist and you were not taking in to account a wide variety of motivations, issues, backgrounds, and like which can contribute to why people do and act the way they do and that porn does not just exist because men are wanting to see or hook up with naked women. Women don't just get in to porn because men made them or want them do it. Or, I'm speculating, but even if all men were completely chaste and never looked at porn, I suspect based on what I understands about what motivates a person to get in to pornography, many women would still be involved and take part in pornography.

-Finrock
Yes, there are many reasons people do sexually deviant things but have you thought that maybe people would deal with issues in a different way if sexuality was more appropriate in our society. I was speaking in gereralizations because that's what my angle was.

I know some of the reasons men look at porn and I also know some of the reason women participate in it.

Fiannan
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by Fiannan »

I know some of the reasons men look at porn and I also know some of the reason women participate in it.
Men look at porn, and men participate in it as well.
Women look at porn, and women participate in it as well.

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iWriteStuff
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Should Fiannan go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by iWriteStuff »

Fiannan wrote:
I know some of the reasons men look at porn and I also know some of the reason women participate in it.
Men look at porn, and men participate in it as well.
Women look at porn, and women participate in it as well.
Cool, let's normalize murder while we're at it.

Men are murdered all the time, and men participate in it as well.
Women are murdered all the time, and women participate in it as well.

Sin is as sin does. Normalizing it doesn't make it right.

Fiannan
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by Fiannan »

Yet we never generalize and say only men murder people. Many conservative people still repress the idea that women actually live to watch erotic movies as well as read on this subject as well.

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Melissa
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by Melissa »

Fiannan wrote:Yet we never generalize and say only men murder people. Many conservative people still repress the idea that women actually live to watch erotic movies as well as read on this subject as well.
Don't we generalize a ton about offenses committed by men versus women? Men have statistically been more deviant in society. It's changing now but it's usually been men. That's a generalization...but somehow that's bad? That's why it's a generalization not an absolute.

Fiannan
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by Fiannan »

Melissa wrote:
Fiannan wrote:Yet we never generalize and say only men murder people. Many conservative people still repress the idea that women actually live to watch erotic movies as well as read on this subject as well.
Don't we generalize a ton about offenses committed by men versus women? Men have statistically been more deviant in society. It's changing now but it's usually been men. That's a generalization...but somehow that's bad? That's why it's a generalization not an absolute.
I think that depends on what we define as "deviancy." I mean yes, a lot of men cheat on their wives. But who are they cheating with, other men?

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Melissa
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by Melissa »

Fiannan wrote:
Melissa wrote:
Fiannan wrote:Yet we never generalize and say only men murder people. Many conservative people still repress the idea that women actually live to watch erotic movies as well as read on this subject as well.
Don't we generalize a ton about offenses committed by men versus women? Men have statistically been more deviant in society. It's changing now but it's usually been men. That's a generalization...but somehow that's bad? That's why it's a generalization not an absolute.
I think that depends on what we define as "deviancy." I mean yes, a lot of men cheat on their wives. But who are they cheating with, other men?
I said deviant because I wanted to avoid criminal. Yes, where a man is cheating you will find a woman. That's a given and I wasn't specifically referencing sex which takes both male and female. More criminal aggressive type stuff. You know what I mean.

Fiannan
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by Fiannan »

I said deviant because I wanted to avoid criminal. Yes, where a man is cheating you will find a woman. That's a given and I wasn't specifically referencing sex which takes both male and female. More criminal aggressive type stuff. You know what I mean.
Sorry, I did not know what you meant. However, if you are speaking of criminal then, in reference to this issue, there is actually an inverse relationship between porn use and rape.

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Thinker
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by Thinker »

Melissa wrote: February 10th, 2017, 12:45 am
Fiannan wrote:
Different wrote:"So I'm assuming I should report her to the bishop and tell as many people I can."

Tell as many people as you can? Hmm sounds pretty unchristian to me to go around murmuring to others about personal problems and rather childish really. Try acting like an adult when dealing with problems then spreading gossip in your community.


Im not taking sides just pointing out your statement.
I am assuming that he is employing satire to make a point. Some LDS women have done this to their husbands -- finding something in his history and then tattling on them to family and associates. Totally vile thing to do but some people think it is fantastic.
Fantastic? Really?? A wife tells people of her husband's porn issues for fun? Your kidding right?

Why would a woman want everybody to know this? Women feel shame from this, so it doesn't make sense to me. Maybe they tell someone to get some support?
My sister has done that, as has my mom, and they are part of "support groups" of women who do that. It's sickening.
I tried to tactfully suggest that if they made a mistake & apologized, they wouldn't want someone to keep reminding them of it & pointing it out to others.

Victim mentality is addicting - and allows them to take the easy road - if it's all the other person's fault.

gardener4life
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by gardener4life »

Its not wrong to get counseling on this. You can go into the bishop and ask for advise for how to treat it. Get help on it for sure. And you were right to ask questions to feel out what to do in an anonymous environment. You can meet with him privately at first and then work out how to get both you and your wife to go together. Use the spirit for your guide. People can be fixed and rehabilitated with the Gospel and by living it. Think of how many scriptures there is on this...here are some scriptures on hope for you to think about. I'd encourage you to think about them during the week as you meditate on this;

D&C 138:42 ...the Redeemer was anointed to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that were bound, were also there.
Ezekiel 34:16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.
Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Luke 10:34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? (We still have and can have hope of a future with a family, even though we will slip and slide back a few times before the end. We just don't give up. We fight for it!)
Moroni 7:42 Wherefore, if a man have faith he must needs have hope; for without faith there cannot be any hope. (What is hope? Hope is the heart's desire for a future with Christ and with our family with him. That we will get back. Faith lets us step forward daily, but HOPE is what is helping us endure to the end.)

Hope
The confident expectation of and longing for the promised blessings of righteousness (in spite of our weaknesses). The scriptures often speak of hope as anticipation of eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ.

In other words...Ether 12:27,28
27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them. 28 Behold, I will show unto the Gentiles their weakness, and I will show unto them that faith, hope and charity bringeth unto me—the fountain of all righteousness.

I would NOT tell anyone. Don't tell a soul that you don't have to because what can happen then is the person feel so ashamed they'll not ever want to go to church again, or they'll lash out and decide to wreck as much havok as they can and bring the whole family down with them.

This is a good time to get your family back on family prayer, personal prayer, and scriptures daily both together and alone. After what you've experienced I would be trying to spiritually but not physically fight to save your family. But do so with humility and meekness not forcefulness or heavy voices. And if this is happening to your wife, it will be very easily infect other family members. You'll need to act fast before they are brought down into it too.

justkeepswimming
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by justkeepswimming »

Have any of you seen/read this article which of all places came from BYU researchers? Perhaps we're focused on the wrong thing when it comes to porn addiction. Maybe the worst thing the church has ever done is put so much emphasis on porn itself when the actual 'addiction' stems from the guilt and shame created by the church.

Interesting read regardless of where you sit on this issue.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wo ... ationships

Fiannan
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by Fiannan »

“Not everyone who uses pornography willfully is addicted to it,” points out Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. “In fact, most young men and young women who struggle with pornography are not addicted. That is a very important distinction to make—not just for the parents, spouses, and leaders who desire to help but also for those who struggle with this problem.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2017/08/eigh ... y?lang=eng

Rand
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by Rand »

djinwa wrote: February 9th, 2017, 11:00 pm It is common for women to report their husband's porn problem to the bishop, and tell family and friends. Wondering if I should do the same with my wife.

She watches at least 5 hours of shows each night with her fantasy men on them - mostly the tough cop type. Makes me feel insecure not being as tough as them. Then she retires to bed and reads books with the same kinds of guys in them.

I should have known she had this addiction. When we were dating, she had a poster of Tom Selleck on her wall, until I asked her to take it down. Apparently, though, she keeps having relapses and fantasizing about other men.

All the problems with porn addiction are evident. The blood and gore on her shows are terrible. Children can potentially see it as it is on primetime TV. Health problems from sitting so much. And of course, it is damaging our relationship - time away from me, and also makes for unrealistic expectations of me. I'm supposed to be tough and rich and famous like all her fantasy men.

So I'm assuming I should report her to the bishop and tell as many people I can, and hopefully with some church disciplinary action and pressure from members, she can overcome her addiction? Not sure if our marriage can be saved otherwise.
It sounds like this is a challenging situation for you. I would suggest that your challenges are your challenges, and your wife's challenges are her challenges. If you start trying to fix your challenges by getting her to change, you are fighting a losing battle.
You need to deal with your insecurities on your own. That is not her problem. I would encourage you to look at your own challenges, repent of them, humble yourself, and grow into that space created through repentance.
When you can find justification for your behavior in the scriptures, without bending them to your will, then you can tread that path.
The scriptures are clear, "Charity sufferers long and is kind..." It sounds like you are being challenged severely. Stay focused on your own agency and not hers. The Sermon on the Mount is your guide. Do good to those who spitefully use you... This situation is a perfect situation to demand more of you. Give God more and He will bless you and those around you.
Again, I am sure this is a difficult thing for you to go through. For those challenges, you have my compassion.

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Elizabeth
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by Elizabeth »

Well Melissa, I shall take that as a compliment, although obviously not meant as one :D
I was married and at home with my first child when the LDS missionaries knocked on my door. I had never even heard of the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints nor the Book of Mormon.
Melissa wrote: February 15th, 2017, 8:17 am
Elizabeth wrote:There are many degrees of perfection. Some, such as sexual morality and keeping the word of wisdom are basic requirements easy to achieve.
For you? For everyone?

This is a typical mentality of lifelong mormon culture members that comes accross as judgemental and non-accepting of people who come from a different life story than molly mormon types. Not everyone has had the "mormon" life, many people have some real crap dealt to them...if they are trying to conquer and improve and change to healthier ways, we should be happy and patient.

I wasn't sheltered at all growing up and I have found that I have very different views than the typical mormon and am suprised at how much misunderstandings, lack of compassion and straight judgement people can have.

If someone was dealt an abusive upbringing, what business does a person who had a safe loving home have in judging the other? They know nothing yet still judge.
Say a person is dealing with PTSD and started smoking again to deal with their anxiety...can you tell this person that it's easy? If you know anything about what's going on with this person individually, you wouldn't judge, you would love.

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icarus
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by icarus »

I would offer that, in my opinion, the problem is not pornography or any 'sin' for that matter. As I see things it is in seeking Christ, what's in our heart. Walking the path as opposed to walking any other path or the swamps, bogs and bi-ways that is not the path.

One can always choose to throw the stone though.

Mighty interesting conversation I might add.

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gkearney
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by gkearney »

I think we may have missed the point of the original post. It seems to me to be rhetorical question. Should I turn my wife into the Bishop and then go and blab about her issue to all of my family, friends and church members as is often done to men with issues involving pornography?

djinwa
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by djinwa »

I forgot about this thread, as I was very busy when I started it.

My interest is in pointing out hypocrisy, as did Jesus. We focus on the bad of men, while women have a big world of secret stuff going on.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
So what I see in the church is that it is okay for women to fantasize about other men as long as those men have their clothes on. It is okay to blow up a family with divorce, as long as you did not look at nudity or anyone having sex.

Someone mentioned my point is invalid because looking at movie stars does not fit the definition of pornography, which requires sexual thoughts or arousal. You don't think women can be sexually aroused when around a handsome or rich or famous guy who is not being sexual? Ever see girls at a concert?

Women need resources in order to support children, so they are wired to seek them out, and then are ready to reproduce. Which is why the rich and powerful can make them horny. Like the drives men have, the drive for money and resources can get out of wack, but doesn't seem to be the same shame associated with lust for money, even if it destroys families.

So it seems that the definitions of pornography and obscenity were specifically designed to restrict the biological interests of men, who prefer looking at nudity and sex. And leave women free to fantasize all they want in their way.

Apparently we also define sin based on how sensitive people are. Because women are sensitive to a guy's porn use, we call it a terrible sin, but because men aren't as sensitive to women's fantasizing about other men, it is less of a sin. So if you want something banned, throw a fit, and it will become a sin.

Someone mentioned pornography leading to divorce. Are men leaving because they saw nude images, or is it women leaving because he saw nude images? More likely the latter. We teach women to be extremely offended. I have nonmember friends who show their wives nude images - no bigger deal than looking at furniture. But I've read accounts of LDS women discovering their husband's porn use and becoming physically ill and disoriented, then in shock running to friends, family, church members to share their horror.

Maybe it happens, but I don't know guys who left their family because of looking at porn. Most divorces are about money, and most divorces are initiated by women. They are looking around and thinking they can get a better deal elsewhere.

That has been the experience among my LDS relatives who were married in the temple - super duper eternal marriage! A cousin made good money and built his wife a big house to keep her happy, but she left wth he kids anyway - she was raised in bigger money.

A nephew was struggling going to school and different jobs while living in an apartment. His wife left with their kids saying, "I'm not going to live like a pauper". She was raised in money.

Another cousin quit going to church, and his wife left with their kids.

I was threatened with divorce years ago when having career problems, and I had questions about the church.

So we ignore all this, and we focus on pornography hurting families. You can blow up families for all sorts of reasons which result in no shame or disciplinary action. Only if it involves a guy looking at nudity or sex is it okay to take the kids away from their dad.

It appears the problem is more about control. A woman needs monopoly control over her husband's sexuality in order to get his resources. She can withhold sex for years without shame as we've read on this site (18 years in one case). But if husband looks at images of another woman, it is terrible evil.

So if she loses her ability to manipulate him, or he lacks resources, she will move on. No matter the damage to the kids. If the choice is keeping the family together with a dad who looks at nudes once a month, or blowing up the family and taking the kids from their dad, choose the latter.

My wife admitted years later that the idea of divorce was promoted by the bishop and her mom. Which makes you wonder about this whole marriage thing.

When married, we are to cleave unto each other and none else, yet that is not how it works. The primary loyalty is to the church or to outside groups or family. A guy is often just being used for his resources, and the church or courts or police are means of getting them. Most guys are ignorant and think their wife actually cares about them, but based on comments I've heard over the years, alot of men are just a few paychecks away from being dumped and divorced.

Critics of the church say it is a patriarchy that leaves women powerless and oppressed. Actually, the church is the means of great power for women, which is why it was easier to convert them on my mission. When they don't like what hubby is doing, they can run to daddy/ bishop and get husband disciplined or shamed. I recall my mom complaining to our bishop about my dad and bishop told him to take her out on dates, etc.
So men have the priesthood and leadership positions, so it appears we are in control, but women are behind the scenes pulling the strings. They get the power without the responsibility. As in domestic disputes, call the cops and regardless of what happened, arrest the husband. And in divorce court, assume the kids should go with the mom.

It was mentioned that men are causing most of the problems in the world. Yes men can be violent and aggressive and evil. But are women really the sweet innocent victims as regularly portrayed? I recently saw on the news a local convention dealing with domestic violence. Conference room filled with women telling stories of abuse by men. For some reason they didn't show the results of this study:

http://www.saveservices.org/2012/02/cdc ... ner-abuse/
SUMMARY: According to a 2010 national survey by the Centers for Disease Control and Department of Justice, in the last 12 months more men than women were victims of intimate partner physical violence and over 40% of severe physical violence was directed at men. Men were also more often the victim of psychological aggression and control over sexual or reproductive health. Despite this, few services are available to male victims of intimate partner violence.
Of course, men are less likely to report abuse, because, as we see in this thread, they will be shamed - told to be a man, grow a pair, stop being insecure, etc. A man's well-being doesn't really matter.

The forces can be aligned against men, and if a man points it out, women go on the warpath, as they fear loss of power and control. Shaming, personal attacks, name-calling. I will be told I'm doing this because I hate women or have a chip on my shoulder, or I just want to look at pornography, or I'm promoting pornography, or I'm under the devil's influence, or I'm too sensitive.

Meanwhile, families are being blown up. So much for the importance of children and eternal families and marriage. No, it is more about control.

Men more and more are being told how bad they are. First day of college orientation, guys are told they are potential rapists. One reason fewer guys going to college. Then women complain that guys are lazy.

Currently it appears countless women in hollywood and elsewhere have been assaulted. Men are dangerous.

And more guys will be checking out of the family scene. Then women will complain that they can't find a man, and have no clue why. "Where have all the good men gone?" Just double down and blame men more.

Women generally are too good for men. A dating site did a survey and found on average, women thought they were better than 80% of the men. So most women are disappointed in their guy. They had to "settle". Don't know if I've heard of a guy saying he "settled" for his wife.

Again, you can't say anything, or you will be attacked. The only option for men is to check out, go MGTOW. That is the future, in and out of the church.

djinwa
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by djinwa »

A few more thoughts.

My boy once called from Afghanistan during his third deployment in increasingly dangerous situations like convoys. He said he was tired of deployments and wanted to get out, but his wife wanted him to keep going over there. I asked if she realized he could be killed. He said, yeah, but she said he makes good money going there.

My sister, Stake RS pres and all, was listening to the conversation, and defended his wife saying women need to have financial security. I about blew a gasket. What about my boy's security???? And in a stupid war, with no link to national security. All about money.

Where was the loyalty in marriage? You would think she would miss him on the deployments, but not if big checks coming in. And I guess if he was killed, she would get an even bigger check. And she could always marry another guy, no big deal. Just like changing jobs.

Then some years ago my niece stopped by on her way to BYUI. Said her mom told her to not make the same mistake she made there when marrying her dad. Back then, her mom expected more money, but her dad couldn't handle school and dropped out. Good working with hands, but made less money and they lived in double wide trailer. Which was embarrassing for her being surrounded by more wealthy church friends. His business finally took off and she finally got a big house - now she apparently "loves" him and all is well.

I once made a general statement to my brother about women being disappointed in their husbands and discovered he was clueless.

Anyway, it is true that men can be very bad. We are reminded of that daily. Just good to expose some things going on behind the scenes and the hypocrisy of it all. Just like Jesus would do.

Because it turns out that while we learn about all the harm to women, men are being damaged. Countless lives are destroyed. Apparently that is not supposed to matter. Which seems to be the bottom line. Do men have a right to happiness, or are they supposed to just "man up".

Fiannan
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Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by Fiannan »

djinwa, much of what you way is true. However, let us assume that there are three young women for every two of similar age men in the Church, who are active in any sense of the word. Then let us assume that around 30% of the women are as you describe - consumeristic, self-righteous, and polluted by cultural Marxism (the worse sort of profile for women is one in which they are active in Church but have absorbed a load of worldly teachings). In such cases you have a worldly-thinking woman with a God-complex, mixed with daddy issues not involving their real dads, but imaginary projections of General Authorities.
So yes, they are out there, but there are the 2/3 of women who would not fit the profile. They can be super-active, and very standards-oriented, but also filled with the love of Christ. They may be total Molly Mormons but they are loyal and forgiving, and will not turn a man into a bank machine at day and a scape-goat at night for all her problems. Others might be a bit on the rebellious side (maybe a few extra ear-rings or a tattoo or two) but still loyal to the Gospel and to their future husband. These might be the ones who ask if you like porn and then inform you of what categories they prefer. Still, the women I have met like this are generally the ones who are well versed in Gospel doctrines -- and maybe even the ones who always correct the Sunday school teacher.
The 1/3 I first mentioned still have a place in Church. They can serve missions, be in the primary and choir, and even help out with relatives and such when people need baby sitters. Let them remain single, no problem, its a buyer's market out there for active and semi-active men. Don't give up - just be careful who you are dating.

MMbelieve
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5072

Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by MMbelieve »

djinwa wrote: November 18th, 2017, 11:54 am A few more thoughts.

My boy once called from Afghanistan during his third deployment in increasingly dangerous situations like convoys. He said he was tired of deployments and wanted to get out, but his wife wanted him to keep going over there. I asked if she realized he could be killed. He said, yeah, but she said he makes good money going there.

My sister, Stake RS pres and all, was listening to the conversation, and defended his wife saying women need to have financial security. I about blew a gasket. What about my boy's security???? And in a stupid war, with no link to national security. All about money.

Where was the loyalty in marriage? You would think she would miss him on the deployments, but not if big checks coming in. And I guess if he was killed, she would get an even bigger check. And she could always marry another guy, no big deal. Just like changing jobs.

Then some years ago my niece stopped by on her way to BYUI. Said her mom told her to not make the same mistake she made there when marrying her dad. Back then, her mom expected more money, but her dad couldn't handle school and dropped out. Good working with hands, but made less money and they lived in double wide trailer. Which was embarrassing for her being surrounded by more wealthy church friends. His business finally took off and she finally got a big house - now she apparently "loves" him and all is well.

I once made a general statement to my brother about women being disappointed in their husbands and discovered he was clueless.

Anyway, it is true that men can be very bad. We are reminded of that daily. Just good to expose some things going on behind the scenes and the hypocrisy of it all. Just like Jesus would do.

Because it turns out that while we learn about all the harm to women, men are being damaged. Countless lives are destroyed. Apparently that is not supposed to matter. Which seems to be the bottom line. Do men have a right to happiness, or are they supposed to just "man up".
Yes men deserve to be happy! Should they man up, yes!
Yes women deserve to be happy! Should they woman up, yes!

We have different roles in life. The man's role in life is to provide, protect and teach the gospel. If a man's best option for providing involves deployments nd that is what he chooses to do then why complain? Your son is chosing to remain in the military - it's his choice. Something very irritating to me is when men make a choice and blame their wives. I experienced this in my own husband. I gave him an "idea" and he proceeded with it just to blame me for his decision for years. What?? That's just dumb.

Your son can chose to not reenlist in the military and get himself a different job. Him complaining, then you complaining about her for him is wrong.

My father would deploy again "for the money" and my mother would accept a deployment "for the money". Neither find the situation ideal but it's what my father has in his pocket as a means to provide and they both accept it if it's necessary.

Men are constantly being damaged and they often times walk right into it or don't know it's happening.

Women can operate on fear and they can often approach their husbands from that angle. If men could understand this, then they wouldn't do everything their wives ask for but will take what she says as counsel or input and then use more logic and decide the best way to move forward.

Your son can take his wifes input and then chose the best solution for the entire family. Apparently, he chose that deploying was the best choice. He must own that choice. He could have been working on his future while in the military (like my brother did) and get his degree so that when he gets out, he can get a decent job with somewhat comparable pay. A man has agency and choice to decide his path, he welcomes a wife and children into his life to provide and allow for the family unit to thrive, not to be controlled by them to utter depression and misery. This is not what ls supposed to happen. Women need to be better for sure but so do the men. Blaming each other instead of helping each other never goes anywhere good.

And bad mouthing the wife of your son when she is not here to defend or speak for herself is DAMAGING to your son as well.

brianj
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4066
Location: Vineyard, Utah

Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by brianj »

Fiannan wrote: November 18th, 2017, 12:42 pm djinwa, much of what you way is true. However, let us assume that there are three young women for every two of similar age men in the Church, who are active in any sense of the word. Then let us assume that around 30% of the women are as you describe - consumeristic, self-righteous, and polluted by cultural Marxism (the worse sort of profile for women is one in which they are active in Church but have absorbed a load of worldly teachings). In such cases you have a worldly-thinking woman with a God-complex, mixed with daddy issues not involving their real dads, but imaginary projections of General Authorities.
So yes, they are out there, but there are the 2/3 of women who would not fit the profile. They can be super-active, and very standards-oriented, but also filled with the love of Christ. They may be total Molly Mormons but they are loyal and forgiving, and will not turn a man into a bank machine at day and a scape-goat at night for all her problems. Others might be a bit on the rebellious side (maybe a few extra ear-rings or a tattoo or two) but still loyal to the Gospel and to their future husband. These might be the ones who ask if you like porn and then inform you of what categories they prefer. Still, the women I have met like this are generally the ones who are well versed in Gospel doctrines -- and maybe even the ones who always correct the Sunday school teacher.
The 1/3 I first mentioned still have a place in Church. They can serve missions, be in the primary and choir, and even help out with relatives and such when people need baby sitters. Let them remain single, no problem, its a buyer's market out there for active and semi-active men. Don't give up - just be careful who you are dating.
On what do you base the claim that 2/3 of women in the church would not fit this profile?

Fiannan
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 12983

Re: Should my wife go to bishop for porn addiction?

Post by Fiannan »

brianj wrote: November 18th, 2017, 10:50 pm
Fiannan wrote: November 18th, 2017, 12:42 pm djinwa, much of what you way is true. However, let us assume that there are three young women for every two of similar age men in the Church, who are active in any sense of the word. Then let us assume that around 30% of the women are as you describe - consumeristic, self-righteous, and polluted by cultural Marxism (the worse sort of profile for women is one in which they are active in Church but have absorbed a load of worldly teachings). In such cases you have a worldly-thinking woman with a God-complex, mixed with daddy issues not involving their real dads, but imaginary projections of General Authorities.
So yes, they are out there, but there are the 2/3 of women who would not fit the profile. They can be super-active, and very standards-oriented, but also filled with the love of Christ. They may be total Molly Mormons but they are loyal and forgiving, and will not turn a man into a bank machine at day and a scape-goat at night for all her problems. Others might be a bit on the rebellious side (maybe a few extra ear-rings or a tattoo or two) but still loyal to the Gospel and to their future husband. These might be the ones who ask if you like porn and then inform you of what categories they prefer. Still, the women I have met like this are generally the ones who are well versed in Gospel doctrines -- and maybe even the ones who always correct the Sunday school teacher.
The 1/3 I first mentioned still have a place in Church. They can serve missions, be in the primary and choir, and even help out with relatives and such when people need baby sitters. Let them remain single, no problem, its a buyer's market out there for active and semi-active men. Don't give up - just be careful who you are dating.
On what do you base the claim that 2/3 of women in the church would not fit this profile?
Merely an estimate based on observations over the years. I do believe that most LDS women are not polluted to a toxic degree by daytime TV, liberal "education," and other anti-religious/anti-biological influences.

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