Skipping Release-Time Seminary = criminal activity

[Lizzy60]

Sometimes it's like being in an alternate reality, checking the headlines on the Utah news sites.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=43037933&nid=96 ... ol-grounds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:)) or :((

[rewcox]

Sometimes it's like being in an alternate reality, checking the headlines on the Utah news sites.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=43037933&nid=96 ... ol-grounds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:)) or :((

Since Utah allows for release-time/seminary and accounts for that in High School graduation requirements, it is most likely related to that.

A place like Texas, you do seminary early-morning, before school.

[brianj]

Your subject line is misleading so I made a small change for my response. For those of you who don't know, != means not equal in the C family of programming languages. If a student skips seminary but goes somewhere off campus for that hour, they will not be subject to a trespassing citation. This policy only applies in the very narrow situation of a student who skips seminary but hangs out on their high school campus.

When I was going to high school, not being LDS or in Utah, there was no mid-day seminary for me. But some students enrolled in a school run vocational training program off site. If one of those students had skipped the vocational class and remained on campus they could be busted for trespassing.

So tell your kid to go ahead and make a run to the doughnut shop or their favorite fast food restaurant during seminary hour. As long as they are good liars and can convince people they aren't supposed to be in high school during that hour, they won't be subject to a trespass citation.

[shadow]

Sometimes it's like being in an alternate reality, checking the headlines on the Utah news sites.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=43037933&nid=96 ... ol-grounds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:)) or :((

Since Utah allows for release-time/seminary and accounts for that in High School graduation requirements, it is most likely related to that.

A place like Texas, you do seminary early-morning, before school.

It relates to the fact that when students sluff seminary and choose to hang out in the halls of the school they are trespassing. They should either leave the campus like I did when I was in high school or they could hang it in the library. This doesn't have much to do with Seminary but more to do with kids wandering the halls of the high school when they should be in class or be "released" from school for that hour.
This isn't a big deal. No need to laugh or cry.

[braingrunt]

Deceptive spin methinks.

[Lizzy60]

Sometimes it's like being in an alternate reality, checking the headlines on the Utah news sites.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=43037933&nid=96 ... ol-grounds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:)) or :((

Since Utah allows for release-time/seminary and accounts for that in High School graduation requirements, it is most likely related to that.

A place like Texas, you do seminary early-morning, before school.

I was in early-morning seminary, a 30-minute drive (each way) from my home somewhere in TX, and then partway through high school my family relocated to Salt Lake where I was in released-time. I experienced first-hand the difference.

This was in the early 70's. I NEVER heard a cussword in my TX school, but my lack of colorful vocabulary was quickly remedied in the halls of Skyline High School on the bench in SLC. I know, this is a diversion from the OP, but kids want to be different, sometimes a bit rebellious, and in a predominantly Mormon school, which was what Skyline was in the 70's, colorful language is one of the few ways to rebel, along with sluffing seminary.

[h_p]

I wish I could have gone to your TX school, Lizzy. My TX school was a sewer; it took me years to deprogram from all the filth I was subjected to on a daily basis. And I'm still not sure I've gotten it all out of my head.

[mirkwood]

but my lack of colorful vocabulary was quickly remedied in the halls of Skyline High School on the bench in SLC. I know, this is a diversion from the OP, but kids want to be different, sometimes a bit rebellious, and in a predominantly Mormon school, which was what Skyline was in the 70's, colorful language is one of the few ways to rebel, along with sluffing seminary.

It was pretty much the same there in the 80's. I wore my Black Sabbath t-shirt to seminary.

[eddie]

Deceptive spin methinks.

As usual!

[David13]

Reminds me of high school.
I had been thrown out of reform school, so as a part time Catholic, I went to the Catholic high school one year.
The kids all knew each other and the rules and all. I didn't.
And I didn't know that the rules they had were supposed to be followed.
Unbeknownst to me, there was a rule, no student was to leave school at lunch hour.
Well, how was I to eat? Usually I didn't. Until I was told that Dan Caulfield had a '57 Chevy which he parked a block from the school and all kids would pile in and go to McDonald's for lunch (on the sly).
So after many trips to McDs we were returning when someone says "there is Sister Mary So and So, duck down!" And everybody in the car, except Dan, driving and I duck down.
So to Sister Mary Whoever she has the goods on nobody but Dan and I.
We were called on the carpet and names were demanded. I couldn't give any names 'cause I didn't know them. So Dan suffered.
Later Dan thanked me for not ducking down, and leaving him alone to take the rap.
Dan, says I. "I tried to duck down, but one of the girls had ducked down flat across my lap and I couldn't.
I still like going to McDonald's once in a while. Thanks to op for reminding me of this adventure.
dc

[eddie]

One time in seminary our row had the devotional and we hadn't prepared, so our teacher sent us to his office to get a devotional ready and then present it. He had a rather large window in his office so we took the screen off and jumped out! :))

Our teacher was so cool, he wasn't angry, just sent us to a room the next day with no window, I loved him for his attitude and was never rebellious again in seminary!

[skmo]

High School for me in Colorado was late 70's-early 80's. We had an open campus, since in Colorado school attendance was only mandatory through 8th Grade. If you didn't come to school, you knew what would happen. Guess what? Pretty much no one skipped school, at least not enough they'd fall behind. I was one of the ones gone most, and I had a 3.0 GPA when I graduated.

Seminary was early morning. I went 9th, 10th and 11th grade, but not 12th. I missed out on D&C, and I didn't graduate from Seminary. However, to me the idea that a HS student gets in trouble for skipping class is laughable. Well, it would be in the world I grew up in. Not everyone was as lucky as I was to be in those days. It was a great time to be a kid. Heck, on any given day you could find 5-10 trucks in the student parking lot with a rifle hanging in the back window gun rack.

[Ezra]

I like the part in the artical where the school says it's basically replaces the parent during school hours.

Rest assured parents. All is well.

Thats why I homeschool.

[brianj]

I like the part in the artical where the school says it's basically replaces the parent during school hours.

Rest assured parents. All is well.

Thats why I homeschool.

Why do you have a problem with that? The school doesn't set new rules for behavior at home; they have a legal responsibility for those children while on school grounds during school hours. Maybe it could have been worded better, but the fact is that students are expected to obey faculty and staff while under their authority just as they are expected to obey parents while under parental authority.

If you had a sudden need to leave town for several days with your spouse and had to leave your kids with a relative, would you expect that relative to act like a parent or like a hotel manager?

[Ezra]

I like the part in the artical where the school says it's basically replaces the parent during school hours.

Rest assured parents. All is well.

Thats why I homeschool.

Why do you have a problem with that? The school doesn't set new rules for behavior at home; they have a legal responsibility for those children while on school grounds during school hours. Maybe it could have been worded better, but the fact is that students are expected to obey faculty and staff while under their authority just as they are expected to obey parents while under parental authority.

If you had a sudden need to leave town for several days with your spouse and had to leave your kids with a relative, would you expect that relative to act like a parent or like a hotel manager?

I will let our church leaders explain.


H Verlan Andersen The Book of Mormon and the Constitution p.191
It is not at all unlikely that the massive destruction of faith in God, and the acceptance of false beliefs in the world today is largely attributable to the massive substitution of public education for that of the parents. D&C 93:40 & 39 But I have commanded you to bring up your children in light and truth. And that wicked one cometh and taketh away light and truth, through disobedience, from the children of men, and because of the tradition of their fathers. D&C 123:7 The influence of that spirit which hath so strongly riveted the creeds of the fathers, who have inherited lies, upon the hearts of the children, and filled the world with confusion.

Joseph Fielding Smith Man, His Origin and Destiny p.4 1954 PPNS p.191
Most of the textbooks written today boldly and impudently contradict the doctrines of the Bible and its history. No number of scholastic degrees conveys the right on the part of the teachers to attack religion in the public schools.

Boyd K Packer David O McKay Symposium 10/9/96 BYU
In many places it is literally not safe physically for youngsters to go to school. And in many schools---and it is almost becoming generally true---it is spiritually unsafe to attend public schools.


H Verlan Andersen The Book of Mormon and the Constitution p.190
After comparing Satan’s cunning plan of free education today with the plan of enforced priestcraft described so often in the Book of Mormon, can it be doubted but that the Lord has placed those many stories in there to warn us against a danger we have succumbed to? Both plans provide for government control of education. Both plans force taxpayers to pay the cost of implementing them. Both prohibit the teaching of the gospel.


Russell M Nelson BYUI Devotional January 2010
While you search for education and wisdom, I need to offer a serious word of caution. Choose carefully what you will learn, whose teachings you will follow, and whose purposes you will serve. And don’t place all your intellectual eggs in the solitary basket of secular learning. Remember this warning from the Book of Mormon. (2 Nephi 9:28 & 29) The vainness, and the frailties, and the foolish of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish. But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God. (D&C 6:7) Seek not for riches but for wisdom, and behold, the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto you, and then shall you be made rich. Behold, he that hath eternal life is rich. In retrospect, I can see that mankind’s general and pervasive lack of knowledge of the scriptures has handicapped great numbers of people for long periods of time. The suffering that has resulted from such ignorance is truly tragic. (Lev. 15:8-15) (2 Tim. 3:1-7) (2 Nephi 28:30) (D&C 50:24) (D&C 88:67) (D&C 93:28) So to build your eternal destiny, you cannot, you must not, limit your lessons only to those lessons that are warped by the world to exclude the truth from God. (Jacob 4:10) (D&C 45:29-33) (D&C 87:6)


Did you catch that last line and whom he is speaking to?

Warped by the world to exclude the truth from god. And he's talking to students at byu Idaho.


J Reuben Clark CR April 1949 CN 6/15/40 p.10
Our government, with its liberty and free institutions, will not long survive a government educated trained and supervised youth. Such a youth can be a revolutionary machine. The ravening wolves are amongst us, from our own membership, and they more than any others, are clothed in sheep’s clothing because they wear the habiliments of the priesthood…we should be careful of them.


You can really see that revolutionary machine working today can't you.


In a free and open society such as ours, a well-rounded education is an essential for the preservation of freedom against the chicanery and demagoguery of aspiring tyrants who would have us ignorantly vote ourselves into bondage. As the educational system falls into the hands of the in—power political faction or into the hands of an obscure but tightly knit group of professional social reformers, it is used not to educate but to INDOCTRINATE!
Pres. Ezra Taft Benson - An Enemy pg. 229

And indoctrinate is what our public schools are doing.

Hope that answers your questions.

[David13]

I like the part in the artical where the school says it's basically replaces the parent during school hours.

Rest assured parents. All is well.

Thats why I homeschool.

Why do you have a problem with that? The school doesn't set new rules for behavior at home; they have a legal responsibility for those children while on school grounds during school hours. Maybe it could have been worded better, but the fact is that students are expected to obey faculty and staff while under their authority just as they are expected to obey parents while under parental authority.

If you had a sudden need to leave town for several days with your spouse and had to leave your kids with a relative, would you expect that relative to act like a parent or like a hotel manager?

brianj
I agree with Ezra here completely. And I think the various quotes he has sum it up quite well.
Simply, parents are supposed to raise children, and not the state through public education. It's basically where the heart of the problem is today. The schools are indoctrinating the children into every possible type of perversion and abomination, into atheism, into statism, socialism and communism.
And they no longer seem to teach any particular life skill.
dc

[brianj]

I like the part in the artical where the school says it's basically replaces the parent during school hours.

Rest assured parents. All is well.

Thats why I homeschool.

Why do you have a problem with that? The school doesn't set new rules for behavior at home; they have a legal responsibility for those children while on school grounds during school hours. Maybe it could have been worded better, but the fact is that students are expected to obey faculty and staff while under their authority just as they are expected to obey parents while under parental authority.

If you had a sudden need to leave town for several days with your spouse and had to leave your kids with a relative, would you expect that relative to act like a parent or like a hotel manager?

I will let our church leaders explain.


H Verlan Andersen The Book of Mormon and the Constitution p.191
It is not at all unlikely that the massive destruction of faith in God, and the acceptance of false beliefs in the world today is largely attributable to the massive substitution of public education for that of the parents. D&C 93:40 & 39 But I have commanded you to bring up your children in light and truth. And that wicked one cometh and taketh away light and truth, through disobedience, from the children of men, and because of the tradition of their fathers. D&C 123:7 The influence of that spirit which hath so strongly riveted the creeds of the fathers, who have inherited lies, upon the hearts of the children, and filled the world with confusion.

Joseph Fielding Smith Man, His Origin and Destiny p.4 1954 PPNS p.191
Most of the textbooks written today boldly and impudently contradict the doctrines of the Bible and its history. No number of scholastic degrees conveys the right on the part of the teachers to attack religion in the public schools.

Boyd K Packer David O McKay Symposium 10/9/96 BYU
In many places it is literally not safe physically for youngsters to go to school. And in many schools---and it is almost becoming generally true---it is spiritually unsafe to attend public schools.


H Verlan Andersen The Book of Mormon and the Constitution p.190
After comparing Satan’s cunning plan of free education today with the plan of enforced priestcraft described so often in the Book of Mormon, can it be doubted but that the Lord has placed those many stories in there to warn us against a danger we have succumbed to? Both plans provide for government control of education. Both plans force taxpayers to pay the cost of implementing them. Both prohibit the teaching of the gospel.


Russell M Nelson BYUI Devotional January 2010
While you search for education and wisdom, I need to offer a serious word of caution. Choose carefully what you will learn, whose teachings you will follow, and whose purposes you will serve. And don’t place all your intellectual eggs in the solitary basket of secular learning. Remember this warning from the Book of Mormon. (2 Nephi 9:28 & 29) The vainness, and the frailties, and the foolish of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish. But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God. (D&C 6:7) Seek not for riches but for wisdom, and behold, the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto you, and then shall you be made rich. Behold, he that hath eternal life is rich. In retrospect, I can see that mankind’s general and pervasive lack of knowledge of the scriptures has handicapped great numbers of people for long periods of time. The suffering that has resulted from such ignorance is truly tragic. (Lev. 15:8-15) (2 Tim. 3:1-7) (2 Nephi 28:30) (D&C 50:24) (D&C 88:67) (D&C 93:28) So to build your eternal destiny, you cannot, you must not, limit your lessons only to those lessons that are warped by the world to exclude the truth from God. (Jacob 4:10) (D&C 45:29-33) (D&C 87:6)


Did you catch that last line and whom he is speaking to?

Warped by the world to exclude the truth from god. And he's talking to students at byu Idaho.


J Reuben Clark CR April 1949 CN 6/15/40 p.10
Our government, with its liberty and free institutions, will not long survive a government educated trained and supervised youth. Such a youth can be a revolutionary machine. The ravening wolves are amongst us, from our own membership, and they more than any others, are clothed in sheep’s clothing because they wear the habiliments of the priesthood…we should be careful of them.


You can really see that revolutionary machine working today can't you.


In a free and open society such as ours, a well-rounded education is an essential for the preservation of freedom against the chicanery and demagoguery of aspiring tyrants who would have us ignorantly vote ourselves into bondage. As the educational system falls into the hands of the in—power political faction or into the hands of an obscure but tightly knit group of professional social reformers, it is used not to educate but to INDOCTRINATE!
Pres. Ezra Taft Benson - An Enemy pg. 229

And indoctrinate is what our public schools are doing.

Hope that answers your questions.

It seems we have two different things being debated. I was asking why the school faculty and staff shouldn't have a parental authority over students while on campus and you replies by explaining why public education is bad. Therefore I will again ask what authority, if any, you believe teachers should have over students while on campus?

Regarding the many quotes you posted on an entirely different subject:
Andersen: Yes, public education has replaced parents. But I don't blame the schools. I have known a lot of primary teachers who have said that many of their students learn nothing about church at home, only learning while at church. Parents have a primary duty to teach but many are abdicating that responsibility. Therefore I blame parents for this problem.

Smith: Academic textbooks are not supposed to teach the scriptures! The only real references to science I find in the scriptures are a brief reference to geology in Samuel's prophecy (he says that bedrock is solid) and several references to astronomy. Does this mean that mathematics, physics, chemistry, and engineering should not be taught? That's a tough position to support since even Smith relied on the fruits of those fields.

Packer: Physical danger in schools and elsewhere is not a good thing, but is not caused by education. Societal decline is the cause and weak enforcement policies are an aggravating factor.

Andersen: I don't get his comparison between priestcraft and public education. Yes, public education was a bad idea that has been used to make this country worse, but it isn't forced. Parents can choose to home teach, enroll their kids in an online school, or enroll them in a private school.

Nelson: I see nothing in his comment to impeach public or secular education, merely a warning against focusing entirely on secular education at the expense of spiritual education and a warning to be careful about what is learned. I would be surprised to learn that half of LDS people who attend church at least twice a month read the scriptures more than once a week. Is that the fault of public education or is it the fault of church members?
And let's take a close look at his last sentence: "So to build your eternal destiny, you cannot, you must not, limit your lessons only to those lessons that are warped by the world to exclude the truth from God."
He said you cannot LIMIT your lessons. That's a far cry from saying "Don't learn math or physics because they aren't in the Bible!"

Clark: That's an interesting statement from someone who went to at least one public school, the University of Utah. But I agree that government should not be the sole source of education and supervision. Government should only supervise youth who are enrolled in a government run school for the time they are in that school. And parents should teach gospel truth at home, teaching how the things their children learn in school support or contradict the gospel and making sure they are taught true principles.

Benson: I agree here. Schools should be in the hands of local authorities and parents. We have allowed ourselves into a bad situation by letting schools become dependent on state and federal money that is only given in return for accepting government control. Local jurisdictions need to take schools back. But this doesn't mean we through out the entirety of public education.

Now that I have responded to your misdirection, how about giving a direct response to my question?

[David13]

Now that I have responded to your misdirection, how about giving a direct response to my question?

I think you answered the question.
Ezra says he homeschools his kids. You said that was his choice. That's the choice he made.
So for Ezra, the whole system is thrown out.
As to those quoted and myself, I think there just has to be reform and local control. And this is why it was so important to be sure in this last election that the globalist village was not cookie cutter imposed upon all schools.
I think we all know too that the parents are a big part of the problem. Yes, they were victims also of the public schools, where they were taught that the school should teach the children everything they know, not the parents, so yes, they are faulty at parenting.
But recognizing the problem is the first step, and that's what we have here, a recognition of the problem.
dc

[Ezra]

Brianj

What question do you have that you don't feel has been answered?

Comments on your comments.

Separation of church and state is not separation from teaching god and state. Separation of church and state means that they state will not endorse one religion only. Which is exactly what it currently does. As it teaches atheism. Which is a religion. It's a state sponsored religion that is the only religion being taught.

So there is a place for God in school. And the fact that he is not there means that the education received there is wrong false. Plus bring it into the category of forced preistcraft. Since it's been made law in most states. And all people are forced to pay for it through taxation.

Think on this scripture.

3 Nephi 27:11
But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return.

We know God has been taken out of schools our prophets have said so as well.

Joseph Fielding Smith CR 10/1915:4
I hope that I may be pardoned for giving expression to my real conviction with reference to the question of education in the State of Utah. The government of the State has provided for the common schools up to the eighth grade, and meets the general expenses of these schools…In addition to these, we are having forced upon the people high schools throughout every part of the land. I believe we are running education mad. I believe that we are taxing the people more for education than they should be taxed. This is my sentiment. And especially is it my sentiment when the fact is known that all these burdens are placed upon the tax payers of the state to teach the learning or education of this world. God is not in it. Religion is excluded from it. The Bible is excluded from it. And those who desire to have their children receive the advantages of moral and religious education are excluded from all these state organizations, and if we will have our children properly taught in principles of righteousness, morality and religion, we have to establish Church schools or institutions of education of our own, and thus the burdens of taxation are increased upon the people. We have to do it in order that our children may have the advantages of moral training in their youth. I know that I shall be criticized by professional ‘lovers of education,’ for expressing my idea in relation to this matter.

So if God has been removed then as 3rd nephi says. It's built on the works of the devil.

I think this quote explains it well.

Martin Luther
I am much afraid that schools will prove to be great gates of hell unless they diligently labor in explaining the Holy Scriptures; engraving them in the hearts of youth. I advise no one to place his child where the scriptures do not reign paramount. Every institution in which men are not increasingly occupied with the word of God must become corrupt.

So if it's the works of the devil then is pristcraft.

I'm not saying all of the education in public school is pristcrafts. No one would send their kids there if it was. The devil is smart. Tricky. He makes it look as if the education is a good one.


Ezra Taft Benson PPNS p.302
Certain soldiers of public opinion in America who call themselves liberal in politics and economics and religion have virtually canonized and glorified three men…Charles Darwin with his origin of the species…Karl Marx published the communist manifesto…Maynard Keynes entered the liberal throne room…with his book The General Theory on Economics…The growing influence of these three men is visible in all segments of American life today (1969)….it has penetrated some of the vital centers of our government, educational system, and church life. If the doctrines of these three men were to become the basic philosophy of our way of life, we as a people would fail as has no other generation before us since the days of Noah.

But Ezra Taft bensons fear is our reality. And that is what is being taught in our schools.


Ezra Taft Benson CR 11/86 p.46-47
Every priesthood holder should make learning a lifetime pursuit. While any study of truth is of value, the truths of salvation are the most important truths any person can learn. The Lord’s question “For what is a man profited, if he gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?” (Matt. 16:26) can be applied to educational pursuits as well as the pursuits of worldly goods. The Lord might also have asked, “For what is a man profited if he shall learn everything in the world and not learn how to be saved?” (Now President Benson quotes President Kimball) Youth, beloved youth, can you see why we must let spiritual training take first place? …secular (learning) without the foundation of the spiritual (learning) is but like the foam upon the milk, the fleeting shadow? The study of the scriptures ahead of the study of man written texts; ordinances of the temple are more important than the PHD or any other academic degrees?

Sure some things taught in public school is important and have value but not as important as knowledge of God. I dare say a person would be better to know how to not be deceived. Know who the secret combinations are and know how to make it to the celestial kingdom then anything eles.

If many are called and few chosen we really need to ask why. And the answer should be obvious. Something is lacking in their education.

Think on this scripture.

2 nephi 26:20

20 And the Gentiles are lifted up in the pride of their eyes, and have stumbled, because of the greatness of their stumbling block, that they have built up many churches; nevertheless, they put down the power and miracles of God, and preach up unto themselves their own wisdom and their own learning, that they may get gain and grind upon the face of the poor.

Greatness of their stumbling block. Is they have built up many places of education or churches. The writers of the Book of Mormon didn't have schools they went to church for their education. And so the word they use is church.

So us gentiles have built up many places of education. Where we have taken God out of that education. Where we teach our own wisdom and learnings. We don't teach the miracles of God. They get gain for this education. We have to pay for it And tax the people grind upon the poor.

A few verses down nephi warns about preistcraft

29 He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.

Do public schools seek the wealfare of Zion.

No they don't.

So my original comment about all is well.
Was in reference to the devil saying all is well. While carefully leading us down to hell. 2 nephi 28:21

And knowing that with knowing that God has been taken out of schools. The schools acting as parents. Parents that don't serve God means that those parents are Indoctrinating our kids Carefully in their religion. Since we can only serve one master whom do they serve?

Can you see the need for the warning about being spiritually unsafe. That it's warped by the world. John Taylor even said that he highly doubted any parent making it to the celestial kingdom who sent their kids there. Wanna see that quote?

[brianj]

Brianj

What question do you have that you don't feel has been answered?

Why do you have a problem with schools acting in loco parentis when students are on campus?

I get it, you home teach. But do you exclusively home teach? I know a lot of people who home teach but have kids who are interested in certain activities that aren't available at home. If a child wants to be in the band, try out for the football team, or become a cheerleader, parents respond by letting the child attend the local public school for the class that can't be covered at home. Have you done this? If so, did you expect your child to respect and obey the teachers or ignore the teachers and do whatever he or she wants if learning doesn't interest them?

If a child is going to be at a school, in a Scout troop, away to Young Women's camp, or attending Trek, there needs to be somebody acting in the place of a parent while the child is away. I have never heard anybody object to this idea before coming across your comment that appears to object to the school replacing, or standing in for, parents while the students are on campus. I am trying to understand this objection.

[Ezra]

Brianj

What question do you have that you don't feel has been answered?

Why do you have a problem with schools acting in loco parentis when students are on campus?

I get it, you home teach. But do you exclusively home teach? I know a lot of people who home teach but have kids who are interested in certain activities that aren't available at home. If a child wants to be in the band, try out for the football team, or become a cheerleader, parents respond by letting the child attend the local public school for the class that can't be covered at home. Have you done this? If so, did you expect your child to respect and obey the teachers or ignore the teachers and do whatever he or she wants if learning doesn't interest them?

If a child is going to be at a school, in a Scout troop, away to Young Women's camp, or attending Trek, there needs to be somebody acting in the place of a parent while the child is away. I have never heard anybody object to this idea before coming across your comment that appears to object to the school replacing, or standing in for, parents while the students are on campus. I am trying to understand this objection.

My kids are young so yes homeschool only. I covered that schools are not parents that serve God. So what good does it do to talk about them being responsible? If pubic schools once again serve God then I have no problems.
But tell they do It's a moot point. All they are doing is ensureing that your kids are there to get as much indoctrination as they can. So it's not a good thing.

H verlan Anderson said that the problems we face in this world could be laid at the feet of public schooling. I agree. There have been too many warning of the dangers of it to ignore.

It's interesting that most people do ignore it.

[simpleton]

"If your children never learned another thing ( public education) they would be better off with their mother"....

That was an answer to an lds fathers prayer in california about whether to continue with educating his children in public school... ( read the story some years ago) to each his own , but i personally agree .

[brianj]

My kids are young so yes homeschool only. I covered that schools are not parents that serve God. So what good does it do to talk about them being responsible? If pubic schools once again serve God then I have no problems.
But tell they do It's a moot point. All they are doing is ensureing that your kids are there to get as much indoctrination as they can. So it's not a good thing.

H verlan Anderson said that the problems we face in this world could be laid at the feet of public schooling. I agree. There have been too many warning of the dangers of it to ignore.

It's interesting that most people do ignore it.

In this case, what are you going to do if your kids eventually want to go to school full time or for just one or two classes? Refuse to let them go? Tell them they can go but they are to not show any respect to the people who are acting in loco parentis?

I think Anderson's paraphrased quote is idiotic and nonsensical. Most of the problems we face in the US, in the western world, or on this planet today existed long before public schooling. Pornography predates paper. Rock art, petroglyphs and pictographs, depict pornographic images from prehistoric times. Today's sexual sinfulness was matched or exceeded in Pompeii when that city was destroyed by Vesuvius. Greed is as old as mankind, as is dishonesty. The biggest difference I see today is that we have technology to more efficiently distribute sinful media and indoctrinate an unaware public.

[oneClimbs]

...students received permission to leave the campus for release time no matter what purpose that release time involves, they need to adhere to that agreement."

Seems reasonable.

[Ezra]

My kids are young so yes homeschool only. I covered that schools are not parents that serve God. So what good does it do to talk about them being responsible? If pubic schools once again serve God then I have no problems.
But tell they do It's a moot point. All they are doing is ensureing that your kids are there to get as much indoctrination as they can. So it's not a good thing.

H verlan Anderson said that the problems we face in this world could be laid at the feet of public schooling. I agree. There have been too many warning of the dangers of it to ignore.

It's interesting that most people do ignore it.

In this case, what are you going to do if your kids eventually want to go to school full time or for just one or two classes? Refuse to let them go? Tell them they can go but they are to not show any respect to the people who are acting in loco parentis?

I think Anderson's paraphrased quote is idiotic and nonsensical. Most of the problems we face in the US, in the western world, or on this planet today existed long before public schooling. Pornography predates paper. Rock art, petroglyphs and pictographs, depict pornographic images from prehistoric times. Today's sexual sinfulness was matched or exceeded in Pompeii when that city was destroyed by Vesuvius. Greed is as old as mankind, as is dishonesty. The biggest difference I see today is that we have technology to more efficiently distribute sinful media and indoctrinate an unaware public.

No thanks I want to go to the celestial kingdom. You may think that it's ok to knowingly send your children to go receive forced priestcraft. But I know there will be consequences for that decision. So no my kids won't attend.

Jack Monette wrote a book on the history of education and the lds church is a great read. It's called revealed educational principles.

You should understand Brigham young was promised by god that if we as a people followed the same patterns as the people of Enoch followed that we would be like them. Close to exaltation.

He set up church run schools to fulfill that. The saints rejected that for the "education of the world" public schooling.

When the saints were rejecting the church schools this is what John Taylor had to say at general conference as prophet.

John Taylor JD 20:107-8
I am told in the revelations to bring up my children in the fear of God…Now we are engaged…in building our temples…that we may become united and linked together by eternal covenants that shall exist in all time and throughout eternity. And then when we have done all this go and deliberately turn out children over to whom? To men who do not believe the Gospel, to men who, according to your faith, are never going to the celestial kingdom of God…And you will turn your children over to them. And you call yourselves Latter-day Saints, do you? I will suppose a case. You expect to be saved in the celestial kingdom of God. Well. Supposing you expectations are realized, which I sometimes doubt, and you look down, down somewhere in a terrestrial or telestial kingdom, as the case may be, and you there see your children, the offspring that God had given you to train up in his fear, to honor him and keep his commandments…And supposing they could converse with you…what would be their feelings towards you? It would be, Father, Mother, you are to blame for this. I would have been with you if you had not tampered with the principles of life and salvation in permitting me to be decoyed away by false teachers, who taught incorrect principles. And this is the result of it. But then I very much question men and women’s getting into the celestial kingdom of God who have no more knowledge about the principles of life and salvation than to go and tamper with the sacred offspring, the principle of life which God entrusted to your care, to thus shuffle it off to imbibe the spirit of unbelief, which leads to destruction and death. I very much doubt in my mind the capability of such people getting there. (Mosiah 23:14) And also trust no one to be neither your teacher nor your minister, except he be a man of God, walking in his ways and keeping his commandments. I

Why would I jeopardize my kids and myself to consequences of a currupt education? Your nuts to think that's ok.

And if you think andersons comment is idiotic well he's not the only one.

Following is an excerpt from a talk that Elder Boyd K. Packer gave in December of 1996 entitled "Charge to the David O. McKay School of Education".

"In many places it is literally not safe physically for youngsters to go to school. And in many schools, and its becoming almost generally true, it is spiritually unsafe to attend public schools. Look back over the history of education to the turn of the century and the beginning of the educational philosophies, pragmatism and humanism were the early ones, and they branched out into a number of other philosophies which have led us now into a circumstance where our schools are producing the problems that we face".

Producing the problems we face.

Packer – on dangers of Public Education

“Moral values are being neglected and prayer expelled from public schools on the pretext that moral teaching belongs to religion. At the same time, atheism, the secular religion, is admitted to class, and our youngsters are proselyted to a conduct without morality... we are caught in a current so strong that unless we correct our course, civilization as we know it will surely be wrecked to pieces...The distance between the church and a world set on a course which we cannot follow will steadily increase.”
--Boyd K. Packer, (General Conference, April 1994)

And I'm choosing not to follow the direction of the world.

I hope more choose to as well.