Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

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Lizzy60
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Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by Lizzy60 »

Boy Scouts will allow transgender children into programs.

http://www.fox4news.com/home/232664272-story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well, that didn't take long.

Ezra
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by Ezra »

Another nail in the coffin.

And morally ummmmm strait? Right?

Wait is that ummmm? So confused.

Lizzy60
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by Lizzy60 »

It's not really a funny subject, but I just about fell out of my chair when I read that the child's mother was upset because the scout leader made her transgender child feel like she/he was different. Well, duh.

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Rensai
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by Rensai »

I wonder if the church will continue supporting this corrupt, immoral, organization.

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Eddie Lyle
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by Eddie Lyle »

How can a member of the Church answer their temple recommend question of supporting or affiliating with any group whose teachings or practices are contrary to those of the Church? I think I am pulling myself and my son out despite the likely exemption the Church will get. I don't know this guy but he looks like he swallowed an unsavory sandwich. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_sR0z506No" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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skmo
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by skmo »

Damn it, Atlas, SHRUG ALREADY!

Lizzy60
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by Lizzy60 »

Eddie Lyle wrote:How can a member of the Church answer their temple recommend question of supporting or affiliating with any group whose teachings or practices are contrary to those of the Church? I think I am pulling myself and my son out despite the likely exemption the Church will get. I don't know this guy but he looks like he swallowed an unsavory sandwich. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_sR0z506No" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I listened carefully, and he never said the word "boy". He talked about young people, children, individuals and youth, but never said boy or girl. A sad harbinger of things to come.

They are probably trying to avoid a lawsuit.

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Eddie Lyle
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by Eddie Lyle »

I am sure they are, however my understanding is that the supreme court already ruled in their favor. Well almost; in BSA vs Dale it ruled that they didn't have to accept homosexual leaders. Of course that was 17 years ago.

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Eddie Lyle
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by Eddie Lyle »

Apparently the equal opportunist pedophile leaders were going to sue the BSA because they were only getting to molest boys. BSA caved under the pressure.

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gkearney
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by gkearney »

All this drama could have been avoided the BSA could simply do what nearly every other scouting organization the world over has already done and become coed. The BSA is one of only three single gender scouting programs left in the world.

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letsjet
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by letsjet »

President Nelson answered some questions at our Stake Conference last year. He said that the reason the Church supports the Boy Scouts is because the organization would collapse with out the support of the LDS Church.

Apparently the Church feels that the good things scouting does for the boys outweighs the bad. If that ever changes then scouting is doomed.

The Brethren who lead this Church are a very positive group. They look for good wherever they can find it. They are using their influence to make scouting better. They are not caving into to people who are trying to corrupt it.

They will support scouting as long as they still find benefits for doing so.

Ezra
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by Ezra »

But there are other options other then BSA.

The church can withdraw support and support another

Vision
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by Vision »

Rensai wrote:I wonder if the church will continue supporting this corrupt, immoral, organization.

They will because they fear men. If they pull out now people will attack and call them names so they will not do anything.

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h_p
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by h_p »

So the BSA now allows openly gay leaders, openly gay scouts, and girls who dress up as boys. Anything preventing a male leader who dresses as a girl, but still identifies as a man? Or a boy who dresses as a girl? Or a female who identifies as a man? My son once worked with a fellow who changed his gender by the hour. He said nobody knew whether to refer to him as a guy or girl, and they were always being corrected by him. Would this person be AOK in scouting? If they ever had a basis for forbidding these kinds of people, they don't anymore.

I was called an apostate for continuing to speak against the BSA after they allowed openly gay leaders, and the church decided to stick with them. Is there no line the BSA can cross anymore where our leaders will say enough is enough?

Lizzy60
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by Lizzy60 »

As of last night, the Church has said "no comment." They also said that they knew this was being discussed by the BSA leaders, and were kept informed. I interpret that to mean that this decision did not come as a surprise. This is from an article in today's Deseret News, which I am unable to link here, as my work wifi is not connecting to my tablet.

IMHO, the Church may also think it would be highly embarrassing to drop out, after all the awards Monson has received, including a medallion and a building.

Ezra
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by Ezra »

Lizzy60 wrote:As of last night, the Church has said "no comment." They also said that they knew this was being discussed by the BSA leaders, and were kept informed. I interpret that to mean that this decision did not come as a surprise. This is from an article in today's Deseret News, which I am unable to link here, as my work wifi is not connecting to my tablet.

IMHO, the Church may also think it would be highly embarrassing to drop out, after all the awards Monson has received, including a medallion and a building.
What's embarrassing about taking a moral high ground? It think it's embarrassing to hide their light.

Lizzy60
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by Lizzy60 »

Ezra wrote:
Lizzy60 wrote:As of last night, the Church has said "no comment." They also said that they knew this was being discussed by the BSA leaders, and were kept informed. I interpret that to mean that this decision did not come as a surprise. This is from an article in today's Deseret News, which I am unable to link here, as my work wifi is not connecting to my tablet.

IMHO, the Church may also think it would be highly embarrassing to drop out, after all the awards Monson has received, including a medallion and a building.
What's embarrassing about taking a moral high ground? It think it's embarrassing to hide their light.
I agree with you, Ezra. I won't go so far to say that the Church's support has been "bought" by BSA, but the Church has certainly been rewarded for staying the course. Many other Christian troops abandoned the BSA when the first concession was made to allow openly gay scouts.

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captainfearnot
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by captainfearnot »

Only in the church, where Scouting is the de facto activity arm of the Aaronic priesthood and all active young men are compelled to participate, do you see a wide cross section of boys in the program. Outside the church, Scouting is a refuge for outcasts, and has been for some time.

Check out some of the non-LDS troops the next time you find yourself at a big scouting event. You will find a panoply of physical, mental, and social dysfunction. There is no way any American boy with even a modicum of social awareness (outside the church) is going anywhere near a scout uniform past the age of Webelos. But all these other misfit kids find a home in Scouting.

Is it any wonder that the BSA is at the forefront of dealing with these issues? They are not a progressive organization. They aren't fighting for the rights of LGBT youth because they are liberal crusaders. Far from it. They are dealing with this issue from a pragmatic rather than ideological concern. The gays and trans just happen to be among the social outcasts that make up Scouting's participant base, and so it makes sense that they might want to try and find a way to accommodate them if possible.

Fiannan
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by Fiannan »

letsjet wrote:President Nelson answered some questions at our Stake Conference last year. He said that the reason the Church supports the Boy Scouts is because the organization would collapse with out the support of the LDS Church.

Apparently the Church feels that the good things scouting does for the boys outweighs the bad. If that ever changes then scouting is doomed.

The Brethren who lead this Church are a very positive group. They look for good wherever they can find it. They are using their influence to make scouting better. They are not caving into to people who are trying to corrupt it.

They will support scouting as long as they still find benefits for doing so.

I am inclined to agree. Better to cancel your family's subscription to all "children's TV" channels to keep them pure than to pull them out of scouting at this time.

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ajax
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by ajax »

Suffer the children and forbid them not.

I'm guessing we make much more out of this than need be. LDS troops are generally more lax than other troops anyway. It's basically to get the kids out doing stuff. All should be welcome.

And per gkearney's post, I like the co-ed option. My daughter hated YW activities and would much rather have done what the boys were doing. If all kids are given the option to participate, it's really a non-issue.

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kittycat51
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by kittycat51 »

As a mother of all boys, I really dislike scouting. It just puts to much pressure on the boys and me as a parent. I've always said to my boys, if you are motivated and want to participate go for it! Otherwise I WILL NOT drag you kicking and screaming til you get my (er your) eagle. I also look at it this way: the young women get the Young Women medallion for completion of their Personal Progress. This is NOT a difficult course. The Young Men on the other hand have Duty to God which is more complex than Personal Progress AND THEN on top of that Scouting. It's just too much. I wish the YM would just focus on Duty to God. In my mind this will get them farther in life with everlasting benefits. And what about being outside of the U.S. and Canada? They don't have scouting in most of the Church.

Actually none of my boys made Eagle; they lost steam after LIfe. None of my 4 brothers, nor my husband have their eagles. They have been bishops, high councilors and served in Stake Presidencies. I would dare say they are every bit as qualified and top notch men even without their eagles. I look at some of the YM who receive their eagles and know that their moms did more of the eagle projects then the boy, and I know they don't hold a candle to my boys. I hear parents brag about their eagle scouts...so, and your point is...does that make him better than my boys?

Sigh, I have been hoping for years they would ditch scouting...still waiting and almost to the point it won't matter because my youngest is loosing his steam and ready to be done with scouting. If you love it, good for you! It does have good benefits, but it is not for everyone.

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rewcox
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by rewcox »

Nothing to worry about, unless a transgender adult wants to be a leader....

EmmaLee
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by EmmaLee »

From another article -

In 2013, the Boy Scouts ended its ban on the participation of openly gay youth in its programs and activities. And in July 2015, it ended a ban on openly gay adult leaders. However, BSA leaders then said church-sponsored units could continue to disallow openly gay leaders for religious reasons.

In a brief video statement on scoutingnewsroom.org accompanying Monday's policy announcement, Chief Scout Executive Michael Surbaugh said nothing about church-sponsored Scouting units being given a similar flexibility regarding the registration and participation of transgender youth.

The Boy Scouts said the new enrollment policy goes into effect immediately.

Full article here - http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... ogram.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So how's that going to work when a girl who wants to pretend she's a boy goes on a camp-out with our ward's scout troop?

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stillwater
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by stillwater »

EmmaLee wrote:So how's that going to work when a girl who wants to pretend she's a boy goes on a camp-out with our ward's scout troop?
She'll be treated with respect, courtesy, warmth, and friendship, per the boy scout values (and basic human decency). Or else what the hell is the point of scouting anyway? Why pretend to be disciples of Christ if the question you asked even has to be asked?

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h_p
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Re: Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

Post by h_p »

rewcox wrote:Nothing to worry about, unless a transgender adult wants to be a leader....
Do you seriously think the BSA could say no to that, based on their current policies? And if they were to take such a hypocritical stance, it'd crumble the minute a transgender Eagle scout applied to become a scout leader after he turned 18.
EmmaLee wrote:So how's that going to work when a girl who wants to pretend she's a boy goes on a camp-out with our ward's scout troop?
Per the BSA's new rule, your gender is whatever you say it is. Scout leaders will have to treat a girl like a boy if they want to be treated that way. Imagine all the righteous indignation if the scoutmaster dared to segregate her to her own tent on the camp-out.

What's actually disingenuous about how this is being reported is that it's being spun as "transgender is now allowed" but it's much bigger than that. All you have to do is check "Male" on your application, and you're in, and any scout troop who denies you will be crucified and made an example of.

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