Boys will be boys, except when they're girls

[EmmaLee]

So how's that going to work when a girl who wants to pretend she's a boy goes on a camp-out with our ward's scout troop?

She'll be treated with respect, courtesy, warmth, and friendship, per the boy scout values (and basic human decency). Or else what the hell is the point of scouting anyway? Why pretend to be disciples of Christ if the question you asked even has to be asked?

Huh, that's an interesting response. Thanks for saying I shouldn't pretend to be a disciple of Christ by asking that question - you're right, people shouldn't pretend to be disciples of Christ. People shouldn't pretend to be anything other than what they really are. Girls shouldn't pretend to be boys and vice versa.

Anyway, back to the actual topic - The Church needs to re-do its rules/policies/guidelines for everything regarding the sexes at this point.

[h_p]

So how's that going to work when a girl who wants to pretend she's a boy goes on a camp-out with our ward's scout troop?

She'll be treated with respect, courtesy, warmth, and friendship, per the boy scout values (and basic human decency). Or else what the hell is the point of scouting anyway? Why pretend to be disciples of Christ if the question you asked even has to be asked?

I took my deacons on a campout once, and we camped near a girl scout campsite. I nearly had to tie one of the boys to a tree, I couldn't keep him away from them. The kid was like Pepe LePew. Not to mention dealing with one of my boys who was gay from propositioning some other boys at scout camp. We all try (more or less) to be disciples, but most of us fall far short.

[rewcox]

So how's that going to work when a girl who wants to pretend she's a boy goes on a camp-out with our ward's scout troop?

She'll be treated with respect, courtesy, warmth, and friendship, per the boy scout values (and basic human decency). Or else what the hell is the point of scouting anyway? Why pretend to be disciples of Christ if the question you asked even has to be asked?

Huh, that's an interesting response. Thanks for saying I shouldn't pretend to be a disciple of Christ by asking that question - you're right, people shouldn't pretend to be disciples of Christ. People shouldn't pretend to be anything other than what they really are. Girls shouldn't pretend to be boys and vice versa.

Anyway, back to the actual topic - The Church needs to re-do its rules/policies/guidelines for everything regarding the sexes at this point.

Maybe they get to sleep in a pink tent...

[Rensai]

Nothing to worry about, unless a transgender adult wants to be a leader....

Do you seriously think the BSA could say no to that, based on their current policies? And if they were to take such a hypocritical stance, it'd crumble the minute a transgender Eagle scout applied to become a scout leader after he turned 18.

So how's that going to work when a girl who wants to pretend she's a boy goes on a camp-out with our ward's scout troop?

Per the BSA's new rule, your gender is whatever you say it is. Scout leaders will have to treat a girl like a boy if they want to be treated that way. Imagine all the righteous indignation if the scoutmaster dared to segregate her to her own tent on the camp-out.

What's actually disingenuous about how this is being reported is that it's being spun as "transgender is now allowed" but it's much bigger than that. All you have to do is check "Male" on your application, and you're in, and any scout troop who denies you will be crucified and made an example of.

Wish they would have had this when I was in scouts. camp outs would have been a lot more fun with my girlfriend along. :))

[brianj]

I wonder if the church will continue supporting this corrupt, immoral, organization.

Yes, they will. Boy Scouts will continue to be an integral part of the young men's program as long as the church is allowed to maintain their standards. As has been said, when flaming homosexuals were allowed to become leaders the BSA allowed church sponsored troops to restrict volunteers and leaders based on religious standards. If that same exception is made with this new policy, Scouting will continue to be part of the church.

However, if there is no such exception it's only a short matter of time until the church and BSA part ways unless Satan and his followers are restrained. I could see some very misguided mothers of young women trying to force their daughters into the ward troop under this policy, and I could see an organization fighting the church organizing a movement to have girls say they identify as boys and try to register with LDS troops. When this happens the church and BSA will quickly part ways.

Two years ago the church and BSA came close to parting ways over gay leaders, and I expect that the BSA will create another religious exception to the new policy to appease church leaders.

[ajax]

So how's that going to work when a girl who wants to pretend she's a boy goes on a camp-out with our ward's scout troop?

"BEST. CAMPOUT. EVER!"

[stillwater]

So how's that going to work when a girl who wants to pretend she's a boy goes on a camp-out with our ward's scout troop?

She'll be treated with respect, courtesy, warmth, and friendship, per the boy scout values (and basic human decency). Or else what the hell is the point of scouting anyway? Why pretend to be disciples of Christ if the question you asked even has to be asked?

I took my deacons on a campout once, and we camped near a girl scout campsite. I nearly had to tie one of the boys to a tree, I couldn't keep him away from them. The kid was like Pepe LePew. Not to mention dealing with one of my boys who was gay from propositioning some other boys at scout camp. We all try (more or less) to be disciples, but most of us fall far short.

I'm sure the scouts have procedures for dealing with behaviors not in line with the values of the organization that don't include excluding the people the inappropriate behavior was directed towards. Did you demand the girl scouts move their camp because Pepe couldn't control himself, or did you focus on getting Pepe to control himself in the future? Did you send the boys who were propositioned away because they were too tempting to the gay kid, or did you make sure he understood that behavior was inappropriate? Maybe it would be simpler if the scouts brought along a duffel full of burqas to pass out to any women (or sexy men, or extra-curvy pieces of driftwood) in their vicinity that might tempt them.

[EmmaLee]

As has been said, when flaming homosexuals were allowed to become leaders the BSA allowed church sponsored troops to restrict volunteers and leaders based on religious standards. If that same exception is made with this new policy, Scouting will continue to be part of the church.

However, if there is no such exception it's only a short matter of time until the church and BSA part ways unless Satan and his followers are restrained.

So far, there is no exception, per the Deseret News article I posted above - "Chief Scout Executive Michael Surbaugh said nothing about church-sponsored Scouting units being given a similar flexibility regarding the registration and participation of transgender youth." No one knows at this point if that will change.

I could see some very misguided mothers of young women trying to force their daughters into the ward troop under this policy, and I could see an organization fighting the church organizing a movement to have girls say they identify as boys and try to register with LDS troops.

Yes, I can very easily see this happening (and I know some women who would gladly try it - if nothing else than to make a political-type statement).

[EmmaLee]

So how's that going to work when a girl who wants to pretend she's a boy goes on a camp-out with our ward's scout troop?

"BEST. CAMPOUT. EVER!"

:ymparty:

[Rensai]

So how's that going to work when a girl who wants to pretend she's a boy goes on a camp-out with our ward's scout troop?

She'll be treated with respect, courtesy, warmth, and friendship, per the boy scout values (and basic human decency). Or else what the hell is the point of scouting anyway? Why pretend to be disciples of Christ if the question you asked even has to be asked?

I took my deacons on a campout once, and we camped near a girl scout campsite. I nearly had to tie one of the boys to a tree, I couldn't keep him away from them. The kid was like Pepe LePew. Not to mention dealing with one of my boys who was gay from propositioning some other boys at scout camp. We all try (more or less) to be disciples, but most of us fall far short.

I'm sure the scouts have procedures for dealing with behaviors not in line with the values of the organization that don't include excluding the people the inappropriate behavior was directed towards. Did you demand the girl scouts move their camp because Pepe couldn't control himself, or did you focus on getting Pepe to control himself in the future? Did you send the boys who were propositioned away because they were too tempting to the gay kid, or did you make sure he understood that behavior was inappropriate? Maybe it would be simpler if the scouts brought along a duffel full of burqas to pass out to any women (or sexy men, or extra-curvy pieces of driftwood) in their vicinity that might tempt them.

2 things. first you're engaging in reductio ad absurdum, no one suggests making every female wear burkas around the scouts.

Second, it sounds like you're falling for flawed leftist thinking. Its fine to be inclusive and tolerant to a point, but there are many considerations more important. One easy, obvious example is the temple. We exclude almost everyone from the temple. That isn't bad. Its to protect it and keep it sacred, etc. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with an all boys or all girls activity. It helps minimize many risks. The obvious one is the inappropriate sexual behavior, but there are many more. One more example that easily comes to mind is that in many scout activities there are all kinds of potential hazards if scouts aren't being careful, and for many boys, when girls are around the first thing they want to do is something dangerous and stupid to show off. You can't just say the leaders should be responsible for every kid every second. You have to take some precautions. There is nothing wrong with excluding people at times for various reasons and we do it every day. We exclude people for drivers licenses based on driving tests, visions tests,etc. We exclude people from bringing dangerous objects onto planes, we don't just say, hey the airline should teach everyone appropriate behavior and let them on with a bomb or something. We segregate prisons to protect the women, should we be more inclusive there? The list goes on and on. Its only hypocritical leftists that want to preach that tolerance and inclusiveness should be our highest priority. Don't fall for that thinking, it just leads to hypocrisy and evil.

[h_p]

Did you demand the girl scouts move their camp because Pepe couldn't control himself, or did you focus on getting Pepe to control himself in the future?

The church's rules for overnight activities say we're supposed to segregate. How are you supposed to segregate a girl from the boys when the BSA policy requires you to treat her as a boy?

[Todd]

Wow! So let me get this straight, if a boy wants his non member girlfriend ( who is investigating the church, wink, wink) to go camping with him on his next ward campout, then all he has to do is check "male" on her form and bingo she can sleep with him out in the wild? Is this correct? Or will the church continue to require a person to comply with the sex stated on their birth certificate contrary to new BSA rules?

[EmmaLee]

"We tried to tell you this would happen. Once you start compromising with the Culture of Death, it never ends. You can’t just sell a piece of your soul to the Devil and expect him to leave you alone. No, he wants to eat the whole thing. He’s always hungry, never satiated.

So, you surrendered to the LGBT lobby a few years ago and allowed in openly gay Scouts, even though the Supreme Court had already upheld your right to exclude them. You thought the forces of darkness would be satisfied with that, but they weren’t. Like we warned you. Then you surrendered and welcomed openly gay scoutmasters into the fold, enabling homosexual men to accompany young boys on overnight camping trips and all the rest of it. You thought they’d finally leave you alone then — I mean, what else could they possibly want? — but you were mistaken.

You’d made every concession demanded by the LGB, now it was the T’s turn. They didn’t have to fight too hard. You were already on your knees, groveling and whimpering. You’d already decided to abandon the “keep myself morally straight” part of the Scout oath. Why not dispense with the rest of it? Why not utterly dismantle everything that has defined you for over a century? Why not defeat the entire purpose of your organization for the sake of an infinitesimal fraction of the population? The point of the Boy Scouts is to teach boys how to be men. Why not alter that formula so that you can also teach girls how to be men? Well, I can think of a few reasons why you shouldn’t: logic, sanity, decency, reality, morality, etc. But you’d punted those particular footballs a while ago. So here we are.

Wait, did you think that leftists were trying to fundamentally reshape and restructure the whole point and purpose of the Boy Scouts because they actually care about your organization? Oh, goodness. You silly, silly fools. The gay lobby and its disciples aren’t going to repay your capitulation by supporting you. This was simply about power and control. As far as they’re concerned, you’re still a bunch of backward, trail-hiking, Bible-thumping nerds. That doesn’t change just because you crawled into the fetal position. It only gets worse from here, actually.

Oh, you didn’t think they were done making demands, did you? No, I told you it never ends. Give a mouse a cookie and eventually he’ll want to rip your beating heart out of your chest. Haven’t you ever read that book? I’m paraphrasing slightly. The point is, all you’ve done is allow “transgenders” and homosexuals into the Scouts. Next, you’re going to have to loudly, regularly, and enthusiastically affirm left wing sexual doctrines. You’re going to have to gather the kids around the campfire and talk to them about the fluidity of gender and the evils of white privilege. You’re going to have to start handing out merit badges for cross dressing and sexual experimentation. You think I’m joking? Have you not been paying attention at all?

So, if I haven’t been clear, here’s how this works: You give the leftist bullies every last thing they want, and in return you get nothing. Whatever you already had, you lose. Those who supported you while you were being attacked, no longer support you. The people who hated you still hate you and the people who loved you now resent you for betraying them. You are now officially in a lose/lose/lose/lose-unto-infinity scenario.

That’s what you get for being “inclusive.” That’s what you get for not standing your ground. That’s what you get for meeting the demands of the pitchfork mob. That’s what you get for negotiating with moral anarchists. But hey, at least the media will write a few nice articles about you. That is until they come up with the next reason to push you around. At which point the whole process will repeat itself again. Good luck with that, fellas. Whoops, I mean, well whatever we’re supposed to call you these days.

Meanwhile, we Christian families will be sending our boys to Trail Life USA. Same sort of organization, minus the cowardice and confusion. That’s what a win/win looks like."

Full article here - http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/m ... s-cowards/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[inho]

During his ministry Jesus showed extraordinary friendliness and hospitality towards disreputable people. He spend time with outcasts that were shunned by those who called themselves righteous. I believe that if Jesus child lived today, he would hang out with transgendered kids.

[shadow]

During his ministry Jesus showed extraordinary friendliness and hospitality towards disreputable people. He spend time with outcasts that were shunned by those who called themselves righteous. I believe that if Jesus child lived today, he would hang out with transgendered kids.

I'm sure he would, but not to simply hang out. He would counsel them.
Boys aren't Christ and I wouldn't want them counseling any child of mine who might have issues. Boys are more likely to say "I'll show you mine if you show me yours".

[h_p]

Wow! So let me get this straight, if a boy wants his non member girlfriend ( who is investigating the church, wink, wink) to go camping with him on his next ward campout, then all he has to do is check "male" on her form and bingo she can sleep with him out in the wild? Is this correct? Or will the church continue to require a person to comply with the sex stated on their birth certificate contrary to new BSA rules?

I'm just reading what the articles are saying, and that's what they're saying. I don't have any insider information other than what everybody else can read:
1) A prospective scout will be admitted based on the gender that he or she marks on the application, not what your lying eyes are telling you.
2) No mention of any variance based on the religious views of the chartered organization, or even troop.

The church is quiet so far, so either they were blindsided by this (again), or they don't see any problem. Maybe they're not worried that this will be an issue? I dunno.

[skmo]

So how's that going to work when a girl who wants to pretend she's a boy goes on a camp-out with our ward's scout troop?

She'll be treated with respect, courtesy, warmth, and friendship, per the boy scout values (and basic human decency). Or else what the hell is the point of scouting anyway? Why pretend to be disciples of Christ if the question you asked even has to be asked?

Damn, it must be beautiful to live inside your head. Too bad the real world looks NOT A DAMNED THING like it. If, in fact, there's one tiny little enclave where you live that reflects the simple, innocent optimism you showed, you'd best be building a gigantic friggin' wall around it because the progressives, as soon as they discover you, will make sure to plant "open-minded" activists in your midst to show you why you're so very wrong in your beliefs.

Much of the world fought against Communism, we had a clearly delineated side on which to fight of who were the good guys and who were the bad guys. Progressivism has taken over from Communism, and unfortunately they've convinced a large portion of the world that they're the good guys and that having Christian beliefs now makes us the bad guys.

The world has largely become a crap place with much of the population heading in a crap car for a pile of even more potent crap, and everybody thinks they're leading the way to the "Radiant Future."

[JK4Woods]

Follow the money... All the major corporations which give millions to the BSA every year have been taking flak from their boards by supporting a non- politically correct charitable organization. The corporate sponsors of the BSA have to comply themselves with anti-discrimatory rules... Gender, national origin, etc etc etc... So their Boards are saying we won't support an organization which doesn't hold to the same standards we are held to.

So the BSA caved because the corporate money would dry up. The last leader (former politician) steered the course to open up the troops to gays, to keep the money flowing. Truely, the values of the BSA have been eroded and they have sold-out to mammon.

All because of a fear of bad press? and law suits? and dimished funding?

The Church will continue to stand with the BSA because they don't want the reprecussions of essentially needing to abandon the program, and consequentlly marginalizing thousands of Eagle Scout achievements.

Maybe once President Monson passes to the other side of the veil the church will make a change, (but don't bet on it...).

My dilema stems entirely from free agency and the path of choosing per my own moral and ethical values.

Do I on a local level, resign my position of 11 year old scout leader, because the BSA program is now faithless, worldly and contrary to every commandment we have been given?

[David13]

During his ministry Jesus showed extraordinary friendliness and hospitality towards disreputable people. He spend time with outcasts that were shunned by those who called themselves righteous. I believe that if Jesus child lived today, he would hang out with transgendered kids.

I'm sure he would, but not to simply hang out. He would counsel them.
Boys aren't Christ and I wouldn't want them counseling any child of mine who might have issues. Boys are more likely to say "I'll show you mine if you show me yours".

I was never in scouts nor did I ever have any friends who admitted they were in scouts to tell me about it, so I don't really know a thing about it.

But, I have heard some acquaintances talk about all the horrible and perverted insanity that went on in scouts. So I have always wondered if it could be a real benefit, or not.

Some good possible element of spreading a lowest common denominator there. Sort of like public school.
dc

[sandman45]

Boy Scouts will allow transgender children into programs.

http://www.fox4news.com/home/232664272-story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well, that didn't take long.

Im a scout leader... this plus the gay thing a year or 2 ago is really bothering me.. talked with wife and she agrees.. I will ask to be released because being a part of the scouting program is an organization that supports and teaches (by example) doctrines contrary to the gospel of jesus christ and contrary to the church..

[rewcox]

Friends for Scouting supports the council as I understand.

Would not paying into FFS be a voice for this change?

[EmmaLee]

FWIW -

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/c ... nouncement" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Church Responds to BSA Policy Announcement

In response to media inquiries about a recent Boy Scouts of America policy change, the following statement has been released:

"The Church is studying the announcement made yesterday by Boy Scouts of America. Boy Scouts has assured its religious chartering organizations that, as in the past, they will be able to organize their troops in a way fully consistent with their religious beliefs. In recent years the Church has made several changes to its programs for youth and continues to look for ways to better serve its families and young people worldwide."

[Finrock]

Friends for Scouting supports the council as I understand.

Would not paying into FFS be a voice for this change?

Currently the Boy Scouts is the activity arm of the Aaronic Priesthood program. It is an integral part of our religion. How do you revolt against the activity arm of the Aaronic Priesthood program without rebelling against Church leaders and their desires? Friends for Scouting is being advertised and we are encouraged to contribute by the Bishop during sacrament meeting opening exercises and during opening exercises of Priesthood meetings. Yes, it is in principle a freewill donation, but it clearly is important to the leaders of the Church.

-Finrock

[rewcox]

Friends for Scouting supports the council as I understand.

Would not paying into FFS be a voice for this change?

Currently the Boy Scouts is the activity arm of the Aaronic Priesthood program. It is an integral part of our religion. How do you revolt against the activity arm of the Aaronic Priesthood program without rebelling against Church leaders and their desires? Friends for Scouting is being advertised and we are encouraged to contribute by the Bishop during sacrament meeting opening exercises and during opening exercises of Priesthood meetings. Yes, it is in principle a freewill donation, but it clearly is important to the leaders of the Church.

-Finrock

In Texas, we do our own thing, or not.

[brianj]

Im a scout leader... this plus the gay thing a year or 2 ago is really bothering me.. talked with wife and she agrees.. I will ask to be released because being a part of the scouting program is an organization that supports and teaches (by example) doctrines contrary to the gospel of jesus christ and contrary to the church..

Inasmuch as the Boy Scout program, as modified for use within the church, is an important tool in helping young men grow and develop, I think asking to be released is not a good move. As a leader in a unit sponsored by the LDS church you will not have to accept a flaming homosexual who wants to be an assistant scoutmaster and share your tent, nor will you have to accept girls into the unit.

The rising generation is one of the most important assets of the church. My favorite callings have been the ones working with the youth: Sunday School teacher, callings within the young men, even in an Elders quorum presidency because I was able to work with the Bishopric and Young Men presidency to get teachers and priests home teaching. When I read Alma, one of the most inspiring parts is the account of the sons of Helaman because I hope to have a hand in turning some boys into warriors with unshakable faith.

Be thankful that you get to help the boys of today become the Bishops of tomorrow. Do your best to help them and utilize the best parts of the Boy Scout program to help in that mission. It would be just as easy to dismiss using the internet to spread the gospel because there is so much porn on the net, yet the church has a very big presence online.