The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

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Fiannan
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by Fiannan »

Polyamory is the future and so eventually...

Matchmaker
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by Matchmaker »

In my opinion, the day is coming where "anything goes" in the progressive world of marriages and relationships in America. All restrictions and prohibitions will be removed so that nobody feels any shame or censure from their preferences. Religious interpretations of what's moral and acceptable and what is not will no longer play much of a role in society, outside of religious circles.

Men will marry men and women will marry women, in addition to their current spouse who is of the opposite sex. No divorce needed first. People will marry their pets or their robots. We'll see young people married to older men or older women, like they do in foreign countries. We'll see polygamy and polyandry. Test tube babies will be raised by nannies.

What else is there? It will be like a bad science fiction movie. They probably will throw out the term "marriage" altogether in favor of civil union or something else, so there won't be any spiritual implication to the act of mating.

EdGoble
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by EdGoble »

brianj wrote:. . . while members of our church know that a marriage must be both legal and lawful to keep our covenants.
Yes, that is true as far as current policy goes. But in the Abraham H. Cannon journal, the brethren at one point were actually discussing "concubinage" where they were considering allowing for plural sealings as legitimate in the eyes of the Church without a marriage license. There is historical precedent for the possibility, where Church policy on that could change where it would not be considered a breaking of a covenant to live in that way. Yet, that would require a revelation or a buy-in by all apostles using their keys, and there is nothing indicating that would ever happen in our day. I only make the statement that there is historical precedent where such a thing was being considered.

EdGoble
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by EdGoble »

Fiannan wrote:Polyamory is the future and so eventually...
Polyamory is the future for the world, where marriage licenses will be entirely ignored by the wicked, but the Church itself on this matter will not change without a revelation or the use of all the keys toward something. And nobody at this time has any rational desire to do that. I can't see how there would be a change in the Church of this magnitude without some sort of exceptionally difficult circumstance, as was talked about earlier in this thread.

Fiannan
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by Fiannan »

EdGoble wrote:
Fiannan wrote:Polyamory is the future and so eventually...
Polyamory is the future for the world, where marriage licenses will be entirely ignored by the wicked, but the Church itself on this matter will not change without a revelation or the use of all the keys toward something. And nobody at this time has any rational desire to do that. I can't see how there would be a change in the Church of this magnitude without some sort of exceptionally difficult circumstance, as was talked about earlier in this thread.
No, the Church will not endorse polyandry, but polygamy is a different matter.

As the demographic crisis chips away at potential births in the Church I would anticipate some real consideration of polygamy has already crossed the minds of leaders.

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Melissa
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by Melissa »

Fiannan wrote:
EdGoble wrote:
Fiannan wrote:Polyamory is the future and so eventually...
Polyamory is the future for the world, where marriage licenses will be entirely ignored by the wicked, but the Church itself on this matter will not change without a revelation or the use of all the keys toward something. And nobody at this time has any rational desire to do that. I can't see how there would be a change in the Church of this magnitude without some sort of exceptionally difficult circumstance, as was talked about earlier in this thread.
No, the Church will not endorse polyandry, but polygamy is a different matter.

As the demographic crisis chips away at potential births in the Church I would anticipate some real consideration of polygamy has already crossed the minds of leaders.
There are plenty of women who marry outside the church. I see tons of bachelors walking around...men are not scarce! If a woman really wants kids then she should find herself a decent working man and settle down. I don't see a bunch of single girls in the church anticipating polygamy so they can start having kids. But i do see them self absorbed and entrapped in worldly thinking and pride.

Its not solely marriage or lack of that's keeping birthrates low, it's the people themselves. Marriage doesnt produce large families by itself...most people cannot afford lots of kids these days. How is adding another wife and kids going to work?

Get real Fiannan. Polygamy won't work, it doesn't work...except maybe a rich man can pull it off respectfully by not having his wives do his job. It's disturbing to me to see wives having to work just so hubby can have more women. Discraceful!!

EdGoble
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by EdGoble »

Fiannan wrote:
EdGoble wrote:
Fiannan wrote:Polyamory is the future and so eventually...
Polyamory is the future for the world, where marriage licenses will be entirely ignored by the wicked, but the Church itself on this matter will not change without a revelation or the use of all the keys toward something. And nobody at this time has any rational desire to do that. I can't see how there would be a change in the Church of this magnitude without some sort of exceptionally difficult circumstance, as was talked about earlier in this thread.
No, the Church will not endorse polyandry, but polygamy is a different matter.

As the demographic crisis chips away at potential births in the Church I would anticipate some real consideration of polygamy has already crossed the minds of leaders.

I didn't say the Church would ever endorse polyamory, which is a different thing altogether from polygamy. I said that the wicked are going toward polyamory more and more. Polyamory is not a marriage of any kind. It is fornication or adultery.

Polygamy constitutes real marriages, and for it to be done with or without marriage licenses, would require the use of the keys of the priesthood. I don't see it going that way, and it is doubtful to me that the leaders have given any consideration to things like polygamy or the united order, and the only thing that would bring either back is intervention from heaven.

Fiannan
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by Fiannan »

There are plenty of women who marry outside the church. I see tons of bachelors walking around...men are not scarce! If a woman really wants kids then she should find herself a decent working man and settle down. I don't see a bunch of single girls in the church anticipating polygamy so they can start having kids. But i do see them self absorbed and entrapped in worldly thinking and pride.
Ah, so how does it affect their membership, the identity their kids will have, and their progression if they marry outside the Church?

And no, a lot of women will wait, and wait, and wait, thinking God will provide them a husband. Then menopause sets in, and...
Its not solely marriage or lack of that's keeping birthrates low, it's the people themselves. Marriage doesnt produce large families by itself...most people cannot afford lots of kids these days. How is adding another wife and kids going to work?
True, the Church leaders are pretty scared, or prevented by their 501-3C limitations, from being forceful in promoting higher birthrates like they used to.

A communal setting seems to work pretty well for the Sister Wives group. On just birthrates in general, Mormons too are caught up in consumerism. Not a surprise since we are so vigilant against neked womin but allow the destructive forces of daytime talk shows, children's networks, and prime time TV into our lives.
Get real Fiannan. Polygamy won't work, it doesn't work...except maybe a rich man can pull it off respectfully by not having his wives do his job. It's disturbing to me to see wives having to work just so hubby can have more women. Discraceful!!
Works for quite a few middle class Mormon polygamists in Utah, and no, I am not speaking of the FLDS. Maybe you might catch the presentation by evolutionary psychologist Christopher Ryan called, "If you Want Fidelity Get a Dog" that played in Sydney. His contention is that humans are designed for communal living patterns.

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Mark
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by Mark »

"A communal setting seems to work pretty well for the Sister Wives group. On just birthrates in general, Mormons too are caught up in consumerism. Not a surprise since we are so vigilant against neked womin but allow the destructive forces of daytime talk shows, children's networks, and prime time TV into our lives."

Now that's funny. You complain about the destructive forces of prime time TV shows in one breath and then praise the polygamy soap opera reality garbage parading across the boob tube in another. Your first name wouldn't happen to be Kody by chance would it? I just love this forum. It's more entertaining than any reality show ever made!

Fiannan
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by Fiannan »

Now that's funny. You complain about the destructive forces of prime time TV shows in one breath and then praise the polygamy soap opera reality garbage parading across the boob tube in another. Your first name wouldn't happen to be Kody by chance would it? I just love this forum. It's more entertaining than any reality show ever made!
He and his wives are better parents than you will find in many regular LDS wards. I actually do not watch the show, my wife does. And from what I have seen they instruct their kids in righteousness, independent thought and standing up for what they believe in.

So please, if people want their kids to really learn about what matters in life then let them watch children's networks. Watch the daytime shows aiming mostly at women that teach how backward traditional values are while coated in glam and fluff. And as for what you can watch in prime time, it's all good. Don't watch any of them shows on cable that have nekid womin though. While they may be intellectually light years ahead of regular program it will scar your child for life to see a bare breast.

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Melissa
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by Melissa »

Fiannan wrote:
There are plenty of women who marry outside the church. I see tons of bachelors walking around...men are not scarce! If a woman really wants kids then she should find herself a decent working man and settle down. I don't see a bunch of single girls in the church anticipating polygamy so they can start having kids. But i do see them self absorbed and entrapped in worldly thinking and pride.
Ah, so how does it affect their membership, the identity their kids will have, and their progression if they marry outside the Church?

now fiannan, I thought babies came first and we're the most important. I mean, if a woman will visit a sperm bank and you believe the church would have to be okay with this, then why wouldn't she do the right thing and marry a real man to have her children with and a dad around to provide and care for them? She also can convert him. Men often will follow women. She can have her babies, have her man and convert an entire family. My mother married a non-member. He's now a better man and member that most. And blessings have been brought to that entire ancestry on his side.

If a woman wants kids then I should hope she doesn't actually belive God will have a man fall in her arms all while she does nothing. Faith without works is dead.


And no, a lot of women will wait, and wait, and wait, thinking God will provide them a husband. Then menopause sets in, and...
Its not solely marriage or lack of that's keeping birthrates low, it's the people themselves. Marriage doesnt produce large families by itself...most people cannot afford lots of kids these days. How is adding another wife and kids going to work?
True, the Church leaders are pretty scared, or prevented by their 501-3C limitations, from being forceful in promoting higher birthrates like they used to.

the church cannot be forceful, we must have agency and the leaders are aware that we don't live in zion or ideal circumstances. They know things will decline and become worse. I sure would hope they care more about helping people make it back to Father than the birthrate needed for upkeep of the "organization"

A communal setting seems to work pretty well for the Sister Wives group. On just birthrates in general, Mormons too are caught up in consumerism. Not a surprise since we are so vigilant against neked womin but allow the destructive forces of daytime talk shows, children's networks, and prime time TV into our lives.

I do not hear more about staying clear of nudity than I do of staying clear of anything and everything that is untrue and unholy. We are constantly warned of dangers in media and idle participation in tv and games and social media. We are also constantly told to be mindful of others and serve others and to be unselfish and more charitable. I hear alot more about living a good life doing uplifting things that I hear of avoiding naked women.

It's up to the individual then families then wards to fix our problems....which are very fixable. The leaders are not going to implement new ways when we can't seem to even be able to do basics. Sorry, polygamy is not a fix all and it won't happen.

Get real Fiannan. Polygamy won't work, it doesn't work...except maybe a rich man can pull it off respectfully by not having his wives do his job. It's disturbing to me to see wives having to work just so hubby can have more women. Discraceful!!
Works for quite a few middle class Mormon polygamists in Utah, and no, I am not speaking of the FLDS. Maybe you might catch the presentation by evolutionary psychologist Christopher Ryan called, "If you Want Fidelity Get a Dog" that played in Sydney. His contention is that humans are designed for communal living patterns.
I'm sure I won't catch his presentation. What science and evolution and basic biology say is not what I want to aim for. All of those things are subpar and worldly, we are children of God...not victims of basic biology. We are powerful beyond measure

Fiannan
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by Fiannan »

I'm sure I won't catch his presentation. What science and evolution and basic biology say is not what I want to aim for. All of those things are subpar and worldly, we are children of God...not victims of basic biology. We are powerful beyond measure
So how does that premise stand up to when a missionary catches strep and has to quit doing work for two weeks?
I do not hear more about staying clear of nudity than I do of staying clear of anything and everything that is untrue and unholy. We are constantly warned of dangers in media and idle participation in tv and games and social media. We are also constantly told to be mindful of others and serve others and to be unselfish and more charitable. I hear alot more about living a good life doing uplifting things that I hear of avoiding naked women.

It's up to the individual then families then wards to fix our problems....which are very fixable. The leaders are not going to implement new ways when we can't seem to even be able to do basics. Sorry, polygamy is not a fix all and it won't happen.
Yet many members are under the illusion that as long as a form of entertainment does not have nudity or an R rating then it is okay. Often the opposite is the case.
Also, how do you suppose member TV viewing compares to non-member?
now fiannan, I thought babies came first and we're the most important. I mean, if a woman will visit a sperm bank and you believe the church would have to be okay with this, then why wouldn't she do the right thing and marry a real man to have her children with and a dad around to provide and care for them? She also can convert him. Men often will follow women. She can have her babies, have her man and convert an entire family. My mother married a non-member. He's now a better man and member that most. And blessings have been brought to that entire ancestry on his side.

If a woman wants kids then I should hope she doesn't actually belive God will have a man fall in her arms all while she does nothing. Faith without works is dead.
So you admit that the only way many (most) LDS women will be able to have children is marry a non-member and hope and pray he converts?

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Melissa
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by Melissa »

Fiannan wrote:
I'm sure I won't catch his presentation. What science and evolution and basic biology say is not what I want to aim for. All of those things are subpar and worldly, we are children of God...not victims of basic biology. We are powerful beyond measure
So how does that premise stand up to when a missionary catches strep and has to quit doing work for two weeks?

you know what I meant. oh and maybe he should get a blessing of healing But then get some antibiotics too.
I do not hear more about staying clear of nudity than I do of staying clear of anything and everything that is untrue and unholy. We are constantly warned of dangers in media and idle participation in tv and games and social media. We are also constantly told to be mindful of others and serve others and to be unselfish and more charitable. I hear alot more about living a good life doing uplifting things that I hear of avoiding naked women.

It's up to the individual then families then wards to fix our problems....which are very fixable. The leaders are not going to implement new ways when we can't seem to even be able to do basics. Sorry, polygamy is not a fix all and it won't happen.
Yet many members are under the illusion that as long as a form of entertainment does not have nudity or an R rating then it is okay. Often the opposite is the case.
Also, how do you suppose member TV viewing compares to non-member?

if they are under the illusion, then clearly it must be too late for them, their bands are secure. Seriously, people have agency and can chose whatever they want, being a member doesn't mean your smart and will make good choices for your life. Members are just regular people, nothing that special really. From what I hear, there is no real difference between member and nonmember tv/movie choices, and it's sad.
now fiannan, I thought babies came first and we're the most important. I mean, if a woman will visit a sperm bank and you believe the church would have to be okay with this, then why wouldn't she do the right thing and marry a real man to have her children with and a dad around to provide and care for them? She also can convert him. Men often will follow women. She can have her babies, have her man and convert an entire family. My mother married a non-member. He's now a better man and member that most. And blessings have been brought to that entire ancestry on his side.

If a woman wants kids then I should hope she doesn't actually belive God will have a man fall in her arms all while she does nothing. Faith without works is dead.
So you admit that the only way many (most) LDS women will be able to have children is marry a non-member and hope and pray he converts?
no, I don't admit to that because I see plenty of pregnant members with active husbands.
Again, I'm sure you get my point.

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Mark
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by Mark »

Fiannan wrote:
Now that's funny. You complain about the destructive forces of prime time TV shows in one breath and then praise the polygamy soap opera reality garbage parading across the boob tube in another. Your first name wouldn't happen to be Kody by chance would it? I just love this forum. It's more entertaining than any reality show ever made!
He and his wives are better parents than you will find in many regular LDS wards. I actually do not watch the show, my wife does. And from what I have seen they instruct their kids in righteousness, independent thought and standing up for what they believe in.

So please, if people want their kids to really learn about what matters in life then let them watch children's networks. Watch the daytime shows aiming mostly at women that teach how backward traditional values are while coated in glam and fluff. And as for what you can watch in prime time, it's all good. Don't watch any of them shows on cable that have nekid womin though. While they may be intellectually light years ahead of regular program it will scar your child for life to see a bare breast.

They instruct their kids in righteousness? Immoral behavior with multiple sex partners you conveniently label as "spiritual wives" is your idea of a good example a parent can provide their offspring? You are to much Fiannan. :o)

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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by Ezra »

Mark wrote:
Fiannan wrote:
Now that's funny. You complain about the destructive forces of prime time TV shows in one breath and then praise the polygamy soap opera reality garbage parading across the boob tube in another. Your first name wouldn't happen to be Kody by chance would it? I just love this forum. It's more entertaining than any reality show ever made!
He and his wives are better parents than you will find in many regular LDS wards. I actually do not watch the show, my wife does. And from what I have seen they instruct their kids in righteousness, independent thought and standing up for what they believe in.

So please, if people want their kids to really learn about what matters in life then let them watch children's networks. Watch the daytime shows aiming mostly at women that teach how backward traditional values are while coated in glam and fluff. And as for what you can watch in prime time, it's all good. Don't watch any of them shows on cable that have nekid womin though. While they may be intellectually light years ahead of regular program it will scar your child for life to see a bare breast.

They instruct their kids in righteousness? Immoral behavior with multiple sex partners you conveniently label as "spiritual wives" is your idea of a good example a parent can provide their offspring? You are to much Fiannan. :o)
Do you think our prophets who were polygamist were immoral? Or is it a double standard? Or why was it that they were good yet other not?

JohnnyL
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by JohnnyL »

17% of non-LDS men who marry an LDS woman will convert.
50% of non-LDS women who marry an LDS man will convert.

Fiannan
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by Fiannan »

JohnnyL wrote:17% of non-LDS men who marry an LDS woman will convert.
50% of non-LDS women who marry an LDS man will convert.
Someone earlier said single LDS women could go convert Chinese men and marry them. Wonder what the statistics would be then?

http://www.stylisheve.com/chinese-hairs ... r-men-_11/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JohnnyL
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by JohnnyL »

Fiannan wrote:
JohnnyL wrote:17% of non-LDS men who marry an LDS woman will convert.
50% of non-LDS women who marry an LDS man will convert.
Someone earlier said single LDS women could go convert Chinese men and marry them. Wonder what the statistics would be then?

http://www.stylisheve.com/chinese-hairs ... r-men-_11/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That would be a hard sell, in my opinion, though a few might be successful.

Fiannan
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by Fiannan »

Any thoughts on this? In fairness most of the migrants who come to the USA are from Christian nations but even still the open door ideology seems the same in Europe as in the USA (with the exception of Trump conservatives).

Matchmaker
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by Matchmaker »

JohnnyL wrote: February 11th, 2017, 8:02 pm
Fiannan wrote:
JohnnyL wrote:17% of non-LDS men who marry an LDS woman will convert.
50% of non-LDS women who marry an LDS man will convert.
Someone earlier said single LDS women could go convert Chinese men and marry them. Wonder what the statistics would be then?

http://www.stylisheve.com/chinese-hairs ... r-men-_11/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That would be a hard sell, in my opinion, though a few might be successful.
I think I was the one who made that comment last year about LDS women marrying and converting Chinese men. I knew the percentage of men who convert after marriage is low, but 17% is almost 1 in 5. If another 20% let their wives attend Church and raise their children in the Church, the percentage of converts would probably go up, as the kids started to work on Dad later in life to become part of an eternal family.

However, I would never recommend an LDS woman seek to marry outside the temple. That's a risk and a sacrifice the woman would have to choose on her own based on her own needs and inspiration.

Matchmaker
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by Matchmaker »

Fiannan wrote: April 11th, 2017, 2:25 am
Any thoughts on this? In fairness most of the migrants who come to the USA are from Christian nations but even still the open door ideology seems the same in Europe as in the USA (with the exception of Trump conservatives).
That was an interesting video by Paul Joseph Watson. He's right that Sweden will never be the same again. With one in four Swedes now born in a foreign country, the days of peace, free love, and ABBA will soon be gone forever. Is this happening to Sweden and other parts of Europe because so many of them have rejected God and Christ in their lives?

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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by simpleton »

Orson Pratt:
"We cannot feel justified in closing this article on the subject of marriage without saying a few words to unmarried females in this Church.
(May I pause at this point long enough to say that while he is speaking to females, it is just as true of males, and we could insert that term just as well as to speak of females, so keep that in mind.)
You will clearly perceive, from the revelation which God has given, that you can never obtain a fulness of glory, without being married to a righteous man for time and for all eternity. If you marry a man who receives not the gospel, you lay a foundation for sorrow in this world, besides losing the privilege of enjoying the society of a husband in eternity. You forfeit your right to an endless increase of immortal lives. And even the children which you may be favoured with in this life, will not be entrusted to your charge in eternity, but you will be left in that world without a husband, without a family, without a kingdom, without any means of enlarging yourselves, being subject to the principalities and powers who are counted worthy of families, and kingdoms, and thrones, and the increase of dominions forever. To them you will be servants and angels—that is, provided that your conduct should be such as to secure this measure of glory. Can it be possible that any females, after knowing these things, will suffer themselves to keep company with persons out of this Church?
It matters not how great the morality of such persons may be, nor how kind they may be to you, they are not numbered with the people of God; they are not in the way of salvation, they cannot save themselves nor their families, and after what God has revealed upon this subject, you cannot be justified, for one moment, in keeping their company. It would be infinitely better for you to suffer poverty and tribulation with the people of God, than to place yourselves under the power of those who will not embrace the great truth of heaven. By marrying an unbeliever, you place yourselves in open disobedience to the command of God requiring his people to gather together. Do you expect to be saved in direct violation of the command of heaven? (Millennial Star, XV: 584

Fiannan
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by Fiannan »

simpleton wrote: April 11th, 2017, 7:47 am Orson Pratt:
"We cannot feel justified in closing this article on the subject of marriage without saying a few words to unmarried females in this Church.
(May I pause at this point long enough to say that while he is speaking to females, it is just as true of males, and we could insert that term just as well as to speak of females, so keep that in mind.)
You will clearly perceive, from the revelation which God has given, that you can never obtain a fulness of glory, without being married to a righteous man for time and for all eternity. If you marry a man who receives not the gospel, you lay a foundation for sorrow in this world, besides losing the privilege of enjoying the society of a husband in eternity. You forfeit your right to an endless increase of immortal lives. And even the children which you may be favoured with in this life, will not be entrusted to your charge in eternity, but you will be left in that world without a husband, without a family, without a kingdom, without any means of enlarging yourselves, being subject to the principalities and powers who are counted worthy of families, and kingdoms, and thrones, and the increase of dominions forever. To them you will be servants and angels—that is, provided that your conduct should be such as to secure this measure of glory. Can it be possible that any females, after knowing these things, will suffer themselves to keep company with persons out of this Church?
It matters not how great the morality of such persons may be, nor how kind they may be to you, they are not numbered with the people of God; they are not in the way of salvation, they cannot save themselves nor their families, and after what God has revealed upon this subject, you cannot be justified, for one moment, in keeping their company. It would be infinitely better for you to suffer poverty and tribulation with the people of God, than to place yourselves under the power of those who will not embrace the great truth of heaven. By marrying an unbeliever, you place yourselves in open disobedience to the command of God requiring his people to gather together. Do you expect to be saved in direct violation of the command of heaven? (Millennial Star, XV: 584
In Islam as well it is seen as a major sin if a woman, who has had the opportunity to marry, neglects it and remains single. However, in Islam there is never really a shortage of available males, now is there?

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BruceRGilbert
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Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by BruceRGilbert »

As I have reviewed the course of this thread, several thoughts and impressions have surfaced . . . of which I care to share. It is precipitated, perhaps, by an experience that was afforded me in a BYU Ward that I attended when my wife and I were first married. By request initiated by a Counselor in the Bishopric, and with approval, a "polygamist" family was permitted to attend our student ward, provided that the wives didn't all sit together with the "bookstore owner" husband. At the time, I was a Primary teacher and had the opportunity to teach several of their children as "Stars" . . . (wonderful, lovely children - exceptionally raised.) [It was on one occasion, by the way, that the mother of another child in the class came in and placed her fur coat over the back of a chair while she observed - I heard one of the children instruct the other, "That coat has bones in it!" :D - Precious. ] Anyway - back to the account - I was very perplexed about the question of "reconciliation" and repentance. It didn't make very much sense to me that such a family should be divided and split up in order to accommodate "restitution" and "compliance." These feelings have resurfaced by virtue of the questions raised by this thread and the prospects of "conversion." Point #1: It remains very problematic and difficult for me to believe that Heavenly Father is in the business of "disassembling" "functional" families.

Point #2: I fall in the category of those who believe that polygamy was never intended to be a "free-for-all" in mortality. I believe that it was meant to be a "calling" practiced by those who were recognized as being righteous and able to sustain the utmost respect for such matters. I believe that things got out of hand when there were those who were not authorized took it upon themselves to practice it without due consideration and directive from the Lord.

Point #3: In all but a very few instances, as referenced in scripture, the "Law of Sarah" was mandatory in its, (polygamy's,) institution and I believe will remain so in Eternity. It is my opinion that the woman would choose the "if" and the "who."

Point #4: In the dispensation of the "fullness of times" and the "restoration of all things," such issues as polygamy and the extension of the priesthood to all worthy members was a necessary and proper course. To disown, disavow and deny history is, in essence, the undermining of the foundations of the Restoration and exposes the "throwing the baby out with the wash." Early "Restoration" Prophets should not be undermined, as it should be understood that the Lord commands and revokes based upon need and timing. (For example: Brigham Young was the Prophet chosen to bring this people through some considerably hard times because of his strength of character and leadership. The enemies of the Church had sought its destruction by "decapitation." They were unsuccessful by virtue of "Foreordination." In the instance of Priesthood and in knowledge of Elijah Abel of Nauvoo and the subsequent "ban" imposed, the reasonable and rational student of history would realize that many "political" issues were on the table during the "Mormon Exodus" and subsequent settling of territories extant of the National boarders necessitating a "judicious" approach to the questions of National concern at that pre-Civil War time. It is another testament to the fact that Heavenly Father adapts policies, procedures and commands based upon timing and need. It was gratifying for me to witness the 1978 revelation in view of promises that I made several years previously on my mission that at that time were fulfilled. It, indeed, is a marvelous Dispensation in which to be alive.)

Point #5: Sharia Law is Mosaic in nature and should not be the basis for a "progressive" society. The Plan of Salvation is a perfect plan with the preservation of "agency" as its primary focus. There are many "cultural" issues that divide Islam from "Western Society" that are "Telestially" toxic, but LDS teachings have the best prospect of providing "transitional" harmony.

Point #6: The Lord is not just working through the LDS Church to bring about His purposes. We, as a Church, do not have a monopoly on truth. Many things are transpiring to bring about Heavenly Father's will - things of which we are not fully aware. He is working on behalf of ALL, for the greater good.
Last edited by BruceRGilbert on April 11th, 2017, 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fiannan
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 12983

Re: The Church's Stance on Refugees and It's Connection to Polygamy

Post by Fiannan »

It remains very problematic and difficult for me to believe that Heavenly Father is in the business of "disassembling" "functional" families.

I am quite inclined to agree.

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