What are our Divine Gender Roles and How can Men and Women Respect Each Other?

[Juliet]

We were taught in Relief Society that as women we had classes to learn about our femininity in the pre earth life. This made me want to learn more about what our divine gender roles are and how men and women can respect ourselves and each other more, understand ourselves and each other more, and get along more easily.

I was born in 1989 and was taught in high school that the worst thing a woman could do would be to drop out of school to have a family. This went against my core beliefs. I always felt motherhood should be plan A, not lean B. President Hinckley also taught that women should get an education. My friends justified delaying or neglecting their families to obey that council. I chose to quit school and devote my time to my new baby boy. While my friends were stressed doing it all, I was receiving a new education from being a wife and mother full time.

I and some of my stay at home mom friends have cried together at the humiliation and lack of support stay at home moms have from society.

I have also watched the large power struggle between husband's and wives and even between priesthood authority of men and women in the church.

I could really benefit from some solid experience from you all about what our gender roles are in church, in marriage, and in society.

Thank you so much.

[e-eye2.0]

Wife - cook, clean, change diapers...

Hahahaah - sorry I'm just kidding or am I?

[Melissa]

I have never heard of the idea of having been in classes to learn femininity in the pre-existance. I wonder where that idea came from?

I know people around my age, just a couple years older than you are, who went to BYU to study but ultimately were there to get married. So, when some of them came home with a degree and no husband I felt bad for them. They didn't plan on working in the field they degreed in but we're there to get married. I also know some who didn't go to college but instead got married. The ones who didn't focus on schooling have more kids but other than that, I couldn't tell you one is better than the other.

Men are the leaders of the family and women are the counselors to their husbands. Men and women are equal and should make decisions equally. Men are leaders which essentially mean they serve the family. They work to provide shelter, food, needs and shouldn't expect their wives to bear that burden. Wives bear and raise children and shouldn't expect other women or caregivers to bear that responsibility. This is ideal and isint always doable.

Men and women can be viewed as 2 halves of a whole. We need each other and neither is whole without the other. We may think we're tough and don't need a man, but we do. And men may think their the boss and don't need to learn from or understand a woman, but they do.
God made us male and female to divide the duties and such but we are one. Male and female are one unit. When we learn this and apply it, we have smoother and happier marriages. When you are married God doesn't see the man without the woman. He sees you both as one.

Men are responsible to be the spiritual leaders of the home and to teach their children to love and respect God. Women re-inforce and teach this constantly while the husband is away.

There are very few things that are set out as responsibilities and the rest are up to us as a couple to figure out the best ways to accomplish per our situations and strengths and abilities.

I believe that men and women should get as much education/knowledge as they can in this life. Doesn't always mean a degree and doesn't mean you have to work in any particular field.

Women should also gain at least one skill that could earn her money if the need came for her to work. Nothing wrong with that.

[Juliet]

I have never heard of the idea of having been in classes to learn femininity in the pre-existance. I wonder where that idea came from?

I know people around my age, just a couple years older than you are, who went to BYU to study but ultimately were there to get married. So, when some of them came home with a degree and no husband I felt bad for them. They didn't plan on working in the field they degreed in but we're there to get married. I also know some who didn't go to college but instead got married. The ones who didn't focus on schooling have more kids but other than that, I couldn't tell you one is better than the other.

Men are the leaders of the family and women are the counselors to their husbands. Men and women are equal and should make decisions equally. Men are leaders which essentially mean they serve the family. They work to provide shelter, food, needs and shouldn't expect their wives to bear that burden. Wives bear and raise children and shouldn't expect other women or caregivers to bear that responsibility. This is ideal and isint always doable.

Men and women can be viewed as 2 halves of a whole. We need each other and neither is whole without the other. We may think we're tough and don't need a man, but we do. And men may think their the boss and don't need to learn from or understand a woman, but they do.
God made us male and female to divide the duties and such but we are one. Male and female are one unit. When we learn this and apply it, we have smoother and happier marriages. When you are married God doesn't see the man without the woman. He sees you both as one.

Men are responsible to be the spiritual leaders of the home and to teach their children to love and respect God. Women re-inforce and teach this constantly while the husband is away.

There are very few things that are set out as responsibilities and the rest are up to us as a couple to figure out the best ways to accomplish per our situations and strengths and abilities.

I believe that men and women should get as much education/knowledge as they can in this life. Doesn't always mean a degree and doesn't mean you have to work in any particular field.

Women should also gain at least one skill that could earn her money if the need came for her to work. Nothing wrong with that.

Thank you for your thoughts here, and I don't want to say my story is the right way, it is important to have career plans. I like how you said men need to know it isn't just about being the boss but they need take time to understand their wives, and that as leaders their job is to serve the family.

The quote was I think from the Ezra Taft Bensen Manuel that the relief society printed on the bulletin for that week.

[Melissa]

I have never heard of the idea of having been in classes to learn femininity in the pre-existance. I wonder where that idea came from?

I know people around my age, just a couple years older than you are, who went to BYU to study but ultimately were there to get married. So, when some of them came home with a degree and no husband I felt bad for them. They didn't plan on working in the field they degreed in but we're there to get married. I also know some who didn't go to college but instead got married. The ones who didn't focus on schooling have more kids but other than that, I couldn't tell you one is better than the other.

Men are the leaders of the family and women are the counselors to their husbands. Men and women are equal and should make decisions equally. Men are leaders which essentially mean they serve the family. They work to provide shelter, food, needs and shouldn't expect their wives to bear that burden. Wives bear and raise children and shouldn't expect other women or caregivers to bear that responsibility. This is ideal and isint always doable.

Men and women can be viewed as 2 halves of a whole. We need each other and neither is whole without the other. We may think we're tough and don't need a man, but we do. And men may think their the boss and don't need to learn from or understand a woman, but they do.
God made us male and female to divide the duties and such but we are one. Male and female are one unit. When we learn this and apply it, we have smoother and happier marriages. When you are married God doesn't see the man without the woman. He sees you both as one.

Men are responsible to be the spiritual leaders of the home and to teach their children to love and respect God. Women re-inforce and teach this constantly while the husband is away.

There are very few things that are set out as responsibilities and the rest are up to us as a couple to figure out the best ways to accomplish per our situations and strengths and abilities.

I believe that men and women should get as much education/knowledge as they can in this life. Doesn't always mean a degree and doesn't mean you have to work in any particular field.

Women should also gain at least one skill that could earn her money if the need came for her to work. Nothing wrong with that.

Thank you for your thoughts here, and I don't want to say my story is the right way, it is important to have career plans. I like how you said men need to know it isn't just about being the boss but they need take time to understand their wives, and that as leaders their job is to serve the family.

The quote was I think from the Ezra Taft Bensen Manuel that the relief society printed on the bulletin for that week.

Certainly men are not the boss. Leader and boss are not the same thing! Christ is a leader and he was the servant.
Men should lead their families as Christ lead the church. You cannot lead if you do not know who you are leading and what you are leading them to. A woman is to follow her husband if he follows the savior. Men and women alike need to realize that this is only semantics and order. Women should be following the savior anyway on their own.

I always thought I would leave highschool and get married and start my family. I never intended on going to college. Well, after my promotion to asst. Manager at age 19 at a car dealership place, I realized right then and there that I had to go to school. The money just wasn't there to support myself for the long haul. I was already supporting myself except I had discounted rent. If I wanted my own place there in SoCal, I needed to make more money. So I decided to attend community college debt free and then transfered to the university. It's there I met my spouse and we were married before I graduated.

I married a man who didn't want me to have to work. He valued his role and took it seriously enough that I didn't have to worry about it. I could then focus on becoming a mom.

I have done odd jobs here and there and it has made me feel good to do that and to contribute to the funds. I however don't need to worry about building a career, I just need to worry about everything else, lol.

[Juliet]

I have never heard of the idea of having been in classes to learn femininity in the pre-existance. I wonder where that idea came from?

I know people around my age, just a couple years older than you are, who went to BYU to study but ultimately were there to get married. So, when some of them came home with a degree and no husband I felt bad for them. They didn't plan on working in the field they degreed in but we're there to get married. I also know some who didn't go to college but instead got married. The ones who didn't focus on schooling have more kids but other than that, I couldn't tell you one is better than the other.

Men are the leaders of the family and women are the counselors to their husbands. Men and women are equal and should make decisions equally. Men are leaders which essentially mean they serve the family. They work to provide shelter, food, needs and shouldn't expect their wives to bear that burden. Wives bear and raise children and shouldn't expect other women or caregivers to bear that responsibility. This is ideal and isint always doable.

Men and women can be viewed as 2 halves of a whole. We need each other and neither is whole without the other. We may think we're tough and don't need a man, but we do. And men may think their the boss and don't need to learn from or understand a woman, but they do.
God made us male and female to divide the duties and such but we are one. Male and female are one unit. When we learn this and apply it, we have smoother and happier marriages. When you are married God doesn't see the man without the woman. He sees you both as one.

Men are responsible to be the spiritual leaders of the home and to teach their children to love and respect God. Women re-inforce and teach this constantly while the husband is away.

There are very few things that are set out as responsibilities and the rest are up to us as a couple to figure out the best ways to accomplish per our situations and strengths and abilities.

I believe that men and women should get as much education/knowledge as they can in this life. Doesn't always mean a degree and doesn't mean you have to work in any particular field.

Women should also gain at least one skill that could earn her money if the need came for her to work. Nothing wrong with that.

Thank you for your thoughts here, and I don't want to say my story is the right way, it is important to have career plans. I like how you said men need to know it isn't just about being the boss but they need take time to understand their wives, and that as leaders their job is to serve the family.

The quote was I think from the Ezra Taft Bensen Manuel that the relief society printed on the bulletin for that week.

Certainly men are not the boss. Leader and boss are not the same thing! Christ is a leader and he was the servant.
Men should lead their families as Christ lead the church. You cannot lead if you do not know who you are leading and what you are leading them to. A woman is to follow her husband if he follows the savior. Men and women alike need to realize that this is only semantics and order. Women should be following the savior anyway on their own.

I always thought I would leave highschool and get married and start my family. I never intended on going to college. Well, after my promotion to asst. Manager at age 19 at a car dealership place, I realized right then and there that I had to go to school. The money just wasn't there to support myself for the long haul. I was already supporting myself except I had discounted rent. If I wanted my own place there in SoCal, I needed to make more money. So I decided to attend community college debt free and then transfered to the university. It's there I met my spouse and we were married before I graduated.

I married a man who didn't want me to have to work. He valued his role and took it seriously enough that I didn't have to worry about it. I could then focus on becoming a mom.

I have done odd jobs here and there and it has made me feel good to do that and to contribute to the funds. I however don't need to worry about building a career, I just need to worry about everything else, lol.

Thank you for your story. I am sure your career and schooling has helped you be a mother as well, and for personal growth it is important.

If women following their husband's is for order and just semantics, I hope that becomes more clear. There have been times where I feel the Lord wants A, but my husband wants B, so I have gone to the Lord and said so be it, my husband chooses B so I will follow him to respect his leadership in our home, because otherwise it would bring contention and that is not right either.
I do feel that the culture is still unbalanced in how a woman submits to a man and how a man serves and teaches his wife. Sometimes I wonder if the holier gender agreed to take a subservient role so the other gender can gain leadership experience. I hope that doesn't sound prideful because I think both genders have their weaknesses, which is why we need to learn how to love and respect each other regardless, but I really just want to know the truth.

Looking at it from a business perspective, it is the boss who gets paid more, so isn't it natural as a woman to look at the patriarchal order and think she is the lesser of the two, and not only that, but doesn't the woman have more shame because she partook of the fruit and thereby disobeyed God first, so technically men can and maybe do subconsciously blame women for all their trials in this difficult world since if it weren't for her, he wouldn't be here either?

[Melissa]

I have never heard of the idea of having been in classes to learn femininity in the pre-existance. I wonder where that idea came from?

I know people around my age, just a couple years older than you are, who went to BYU to study but ultimately were there to get married. So, when some of them came home with a degree and no husband I felt bad for them. They didn't plan on working in the field they degreed in but we're there to get married. I also know some who didn't go to college but instead got married. The ones who didn't focus on schooling have more kids but other than that, I couldn't tell you one is better than the other.

Men are the leaders of the family and women are the counselors to their husbands. Men and women are equal and should make decisions equally. Men are leaders which essentially mean they serve the family. They work to provide shelter, food, needs and shouldn't expect their wives to bear that burden. Wives bear and raise children and shouldn't expect other women or caregivers to bear that responsibility. This is ideal and isint always doable.

Men and women can be viewed as 2 halves of a whole. We need each other and neither is whole without the other. We may think we're tough and don't need a man, but we do. And men may think their the boss and don't need to learn from or understand a woman, but they do.
God made us male and female to divide the duties and such but we are one. Male and female are one unit. When we learn this and apply it, we have smoother and happier marriages. When you are married God doesn't see the man without the woman. He sees you both as one.

Men are responsible to be the spiritual leaders of the home and to teach their children to love and respect God. Women re-inforce and teach this constantly while the husband is away.

There are very few things that are set out as responsibilities and the rest are up to us as a couple to figure out the best ways to accomplish per our situations and strengths and abilities.

I believe that men and women should get as much education/knowledge as they can in this life. Doesn't always mean a degree and doesn't mean you have to work in any particular field.

Women should also gain at least one skill that could earn her money if the need came for her to work. Nothing wrong with that.

Thank you for your thoughts here, and I don't want to say my story is the right way, it is important to have career plans. I like how you said men need to know it isn't just about being the boss but they need take time to understand their wives, and that as leaders their job is to serve the family.

The quote was I think from the Ezra Taft Bensen Manuel that the relief society printed on the bulletin for that week.

Certainly men are not the boss. Leader and boss are not the same thing! Christ is a leader and he was the servant.
Men should lead their families as Christ lead the church. You cannot lead if you do not know who you are leading and what you are leading them to. A woman is to follow her husband if he follows the savior. Men and women alike need to realize that this is only semantics and order. Women should be following the savior anyway on their own.

I always thought I would leave highschool and get married and start my family. I never intended on going to college. Well, after my promotion to asst. Manager at age 19 at a car dealership place, I realized right then and there that I had to go to school. The money just wasn't there to support myself for the long haul. I was already supporting myself except I had discounted rent. If I wanted my own place there in SoCal, I needed to make more money. So I decided to attend community college debt free and then transfered to the university. It's there I met my spouse and we were married before I graduated.

I married a man who didn't want me to have to work. He valued his role and took it seriously enough that I didn't have to worry about it. I could then focus on becoming a mom.

I have done odd jobs here and there and it has made me feel good to do that and to contribute to the funds. I however don't need to worry about building a career, I just need to worry about everything else, lol.

Thank you for your story. I am sure your career and schooling has helped you be a mother as well, and for personal growth it is important.

If women following their husband's is for order and just semantics, I hope that becomes more clear. There have been times where I feel the Lord wants A, but my husband wants B, so I have gone to the Lord and said so be it, my husband chooses B so I will follow him to respect his leadership in our home, because otherwise it would bring contention and that is not right either.
I do feel that the culture is still unbalanced in how a woman submits to a man and how a man serves and teaches his wife. Sometimes I wonder if the holier gender agreed to take a subservient role so the other gender can gain leadership experience. I hope that doesn't sound prideful because I think both genders have their weaknesses, which is why we need to learn how to love and respect each other regardless, but I really just want to know the truth.

Looking at it from a business perspective, it is the boss who gets paid more, so isn't it natural as a woman to look at the patriarchal order and think she is the lesser of the two, and not only that, but doesn't the woman have more shame because she partook of the fruit and thereby disobeyed God first, so technically men can and maybe do subconsciously blame women for all their trials in this difficult world since if it weren't for her, he wouldn't be here either?

I love your thinking and questioning. I don't know of any woman who hasn't had the same dilemmas and questions. Yes the culture is behind but it always has been behind regarding how God views men and women.

I know that there are Christian religions who have issue with the apple eating and falling and they blame Adam, not Eve - as far as I understand it.

Women do not have more shame because of eating the apple first, someone had to and Adam sure wasn't interested. I also don't believe that our LDS faith blames women for partaking first, maybe others do? Not sure. We needed to fall as humans in the garden or we wouldn't be able to complete the plan as required.

Men have been superior to women in many ways and for basically, forever. It's simply because, we (as a human race) left God too far away from us and left His ways. When a man doesn't have God, he abuses and uses women incorrectly and when a woman doesn't have God, she uses herself incorrectly against a man for her benefit.

We often think of women being inferior to men but it's just a show. Men are very sensitive creatures and are incredibly vulnerable to women. Men are nearly controlled by women just because she is female. There will be many many women who will need to repent after they realize how they themselves have used men or a husband incorrectly.

Honestly were all just messed up in this world and the only way to get right and straight again on this subject is to purge yourself of any cultural ideas and worldly views of gender roles. Only God's way allows for true equality and mutual respect. And it only works when both work.

Next time your husband has a different idea than you do regarding family stuff, state your view and why you believe it to be right and then ask him to do the same. The gospel should be the focus and doing things the right way, not your way or his way. If his answer follows the gospel guidelines then have no fear and follow his idea but if it doesn't then insist on following the gospels path.

It's a hard job to be a peace maker but I urge you to keep your voice and your God given divine nature to see the path your family should take. Please have a voice, women's voices are needed! Don't follow him or let him have his way just because he's a man. He won't respect you if your a push over. On the other hand, don't be the type to strip him of his manhood, lol. Just find a comfortable place somewhere in between.
And ultimately you both should be counseling together until you reach a mutual decision that is in line with the gospel.

Remember, we have a heavenly mother as well as a heavenly father. Your husband is nothing without you and you nothing without him.

I know how difficult and confusing and even degrading it can feel sometimes. It's a tough world we live in and it's really difficult for women. Men basically have their lives mapped out. Go on a mission, get married, go to school, get a career, stay in said career until you retire. Womens lives are not mapped out the same.

We do rely and depend on a man when we chose to marry and have kids. He shouldnt use that as any superiority and a woman shouldn't see that as inferiority. He's making it possible for you to be a mother! Thank him for that. And you are giving him a reason to get up every morning and children that call him daddy.

Some day, we will all understand more fully who we are as males and females. Females will be valued and respected when we learn more about our divine nature. Right now, heavenly mother is basically not recognized but someday she will be and everyone will know the importance and value of women. And no, I don't believe that when we see our heavenly mother, that there will be a host of women standing behind our heavenly father. Our mother will be standing right next to our father and she will be as glorious as him.

[davedan]

Husbands and wives should make decisions together and be unified in them.

[simpleton]

So ... Joseph Smith had a few days of schooling and look Who came and talked to him personally... all of the education in the world will not get you into the celestial kingdom .. but repentance , faith , humility and good works will , " the poor and the meek will inherit the earth" ...
Any woman that foregoes the pleasures of this carnal life and in spite of the finger of shame and scorn, becomes a co-creater with God has my utmost respect, I do not believe that any amount of worldly education or any career can even come remotely close to the self satisfaction of being a wife and a mother ... Kudos to you Juliet ... I think that is exactly what is wrong with society today , wait wait wait have a family later on in life , party play delay .. no wonder there is so much immorality in our society... then shame the ones that desire a large family ... well they would point the finger of scorn at their own Father in Heaven also, as after all are we not all His children?
I am not against education , but I am against today's perverted twisted controlled education system that takes away the children from youth for 7 to 8 hours per weekday and indoctrinates the youth into , well , let society speak for itself...
I think that if our children never learned another thing they would be better of with their mothers.
All you "poor" stay at home mothers have my vote and admiration, and it is you who have the greatest most fulfilling career any female can ever have hands down ... And one day I believe there will be a role reversal and the shame will be upon those that have neglected these things...
God bless you all

[Juliet]

"We often think of women being inferior to men but it's just a show. Men are very sensitive creatures and are incredibly vulnerable to women. Men are nearly controlled by women just because she is female. There will be many many women who will need to repent after they realize how they themselves have used men or a husband incorrectly." - Melissa

I like this comment because that is not a perspective you hear about but it is right on. It would be nice if women knew their power as women and how to respect it instead of be embarrassed by it. And the rest of what you say is very good advice. It would be nice to publish information like this because it had gems that you don't find elsewhere.

[Rose Garden]

My greatest sorrows in life have come because I was more worried about other people's roles than my own. I'm working on changing that. I've been focusing on my own part, lately, and trying my best to let other people worry about their own without interference from me. Spiritually speaking, my role is to follow what the Lord taught in the sermon on the mount. Physically, I care for myself, my baby, and my home to the best of my ability. The more I learn to focus on myself, the more peace and joy I feel in my life. And the more I feel confidence in myself and am immune to others' thoughts about me.

[Juliet]

My greatest sorrows in life have come because I was more worried about other people's roles than my own. I'm working on changing that. I've been focusing on my own part, lately, and trying my best to let other people worry about their own without interference from me. Spiritually speaking, my role is to follow what the Lord taught in the sermon on the mount. Physically, I care for myself, my baby, and my home to the best of my ability. The more I learn to focus on myself, the more peace and joy I feel in my life. And the more I feel confidence in myself and am immune to others' thoughts about me.

That is the hardest thing, to respect and care for yourself and be true to yourself. Then it doesn't matter what other people think. The Sermon in the Mount is very inclusive and so I really appreciate you bringing this up, because if all of us applied Christ's teachings we wouldn't have any divisive interaction no matter who we are or what we do or should be doing.

[Juliet]

So ... Joseph Smith had a few days of schooling and look Who came and talked to him personally... all of the education in the world will not get you into the celestial kingdom .. but repentance , faith , humility and good works will , " the poor and the meek will inherit the earth" ...
Any woman that foregoes the pleasures of this carnal life and in spite of the finger of shame and scorn, becomes a co-creater with God has my utmost respect, I do not believe that any amount of worldly education or any career can even come remotely close to the self satisfaction of being a wife and a mother ... Kudos to you Juliet ... I think that is exactly what is wrong with society today , wait wait wait have a family later on in life , party play delay .. no wonder there is so much immorality in our society... then shame the ones that desire a large family ... well they would point the finger of scorn at their own Father in Heaven also, as after all are we not all His children?
I am not against education , but I am against today's perverted twisted controlled education system that takes away the children from youth for 7 to 8 hours per weekday and indoctrinates the youth into , well , let society speak for itself...
I think that if our children never learned another thing they would be better of with their mothers.
All you "poor" stay at home mothers have my vote and admiration, and it is you who have the greatest most fulfilling career any female can ever have hands down ... And one day I believe there will be a role reversal and the shame will be upon those that have neglected these things...
God bless you all

Thank you for saying this. I think I will say that next time I am asked what I do, instead of saying stay at home mom, I will say "Co-Creator with God". That does spice up the title doesn't it? And thankyou for building up women and describing your respect for them.

[brianj]

One thing that I would like to add on the subject of how men and women can respect each other is: always look up at your spouse. Always look for something positive in your spouse that you can boast about. When I hear a husband or wife speaking critically of their spouse, I know that marriage is in trouble.

If you need to, put a lot of effort into sincerely praying for help developing an attitude of admiration toward your spouse. When you both think that you have an amazing spouse and feel lucky to have them in your life, you will have stronger desires to do special things for them and a happy family environment should come relatively easily. When the husband comes home and he's upset that his dinner is cold and his wife looks slovenly, or when the husband comes home and the wife is upset that he isn't immediately taking an active role in everything in the house, the results will be toxic.

[butterfly]

I really struggle with motherhood. Growing up, I couldn't wait to have my own babies. Now that I have them I feel like a failure on a daily basis. I hear a lot of sincere compliments from others saying that I'm a great mom, but most days I feel lost.

If I had a career, I could work and be very successful. Having a career would be nothing compared to motherhood- a career would be a breeze. My husband even seriously recommended that I go back to work because I really enjoyed my job before I left it. But I knew that going back to work wouldn't teach me the things I need to be learning.

Of course I love my babies and I'd do anything for them, but it is hard...really hard.
And granted, we don't really have much outside help which leads to my husband and I averaging a date only 2 times per year and hardly ever getting to see each other during the week. But...we make it work.

As far as gender roles go, I have given up on them. I think the majority of them are all cultural besides the obvious ones (women birth and breastfeed the babies). In all my study of history, there have been plenty of matriarchal societies where the roles we see today were completely reversed. And it is interesting that matriarchal societies were typically the ones with little to no war. Female leaders relied upon discussion and treaties instead of killing to solve their problems.

In ancient societies, women were revered and even feared for their "magical powers" of creating life within them. There came a point where men wanted to be superior so they began to call women witches, tweaked the bible to blame things on Eve, and said that women's natural body functions such as menstruation and giving birth were unclean side effects of women's disfavor with God.

So what we view today as gender roles are basically just current social trends. My thinking is: become one with your spouse and if it works for the 2 of you then that's what your role is. My husband is the best husband in the world; we don't try to put each other in a box that says what each is supposed to do or be good at. We just stick with what comes naturally for us as individuals.

[passionflower]

"We often think of women being inferior to men but it's just a show. Men are very sensitive creatures and are incredibly vulnerable to women. Men are nearly controlled by women just because she is female. There will be many many women who will need to repent after they realize how they themselves have used men or a husband incorrectly." - Melissa

I like this comment because that is not a perspective you hear about but it is right on. It would be nice if women knew their power as women and how to respect it instead of be embarrassed by it. And the rest of what you say is very good advice. It would be nice to publish information like this because it had gems that you don't find elsewhere.

I picked up on this comment about "control", too. In this world today, control issues among women are HUGE, are definately alive and well in the women of the church, and I would dare to say this is the leading cause of divorce.

A while back I read an article by an LDS marraige counseling couple, who, in this article, totally sympathized with a friend of theirs as she complained to them about her husband. The article was basically a list of his faults and her virtues that went like this: She made him three meals a day, gave him a back massage every night, picked up after him, worked part time, managed the money, paid the bills, and yet their date nights were totally unromantic things he just wanted to do, and she felt completely unappreciated and unloved. This marraige counseling couple went on about how awful her husband was, and that he just really needed to change his ways right now or else! The article ends with the husband humbly coming home from Priesthood meeting where he was told to ask his wife to list all his faults so he could become a "better" husband. And supposedly they lived happily ever after, ha ha !

These marraige counselours acted like this was a very common problem and they see it every day. With the kind of solution they put forward here, no wnder we have so many divorces.

I brought this article up to my bishop when he called me in to advise him because he was overwhelmed with all the women's problems he was dealing with on a one to one basis, and had a good laugh over why we should really just shoot all the marraige counselors out there.

The husband up there was faithful and active in the church, a dutiful Priesthood holder with a solid testimony and just an all around good man. He was a professional businessman, a reasonably attentive father, and was otherwise very responsible. Yet his wife was made out to be his victim.
I brought up this article to my bishop when he called me in to advise him over what to do with all the complaining women he dealt with every week. He was really overwhelmed. The first thing I told my Bishop was " So what does she want him to appreciate her for? That's she is a better man than he is?"

Then I proceeded to state that the real solution for this lady was to completely let go and stop trying to control her husband. After all, what was the real reason she worked a part time job, managed the money, picked up his clothes, did the nightly backrubs, and made three meals a day? Because she felt "in control" when she did. Like the woman in the article, many of these women try very hard to hide their controlling natures by labeling it as self sacrifice, but this just isn't so.


Then I told my bishop that this woman needs to be more in her feminine element, accepting and appreciative of the wonderful guy her husband really is, and more receptive to the many things he probably does for her every day ( or at least used to ), and then in a feminine way, start taking care of her own needs more, instead of demanding attention, etc, from him. If that means quitting the part time job and handing the money management over to him(like it or not), so be it. If you have to tell him the breakfast cereal is in the cupboard, and he gets dinner leftovers for lunch, most men will agree when they see their wife is happier ( most men really want their wife to be happy ). A woman will radiate a much more attractive feminine energy to her husband when she isn't trying to be his mother. Giving up control and becoming very receptive and accepting of the man she has, creates instant peace and opens up a lot more time for her own core feminine style self care, which I can practically guarantee will make her feel better than she has in years and years. It is exhausting to try and be something you are not, and women really aren't small men.

Women in Amish and Mennonite societies do not manifest the problems that constantly trouble women in this modern world. According to recent research, Amish and Mennonite women never ever are bothered with things like weight management, or any body image issues, depression, stress or social isolation,perfectionism, and don't get overwhelmed, feel unloved, unfulfilled, or the myriad of other complaints common to the today's woman. And they have a lot more time for fun. Their health, both mental and physical, is far better than women just outside their communities. I can say from personal knowledge that they are a happy lot of people, especially the kids.

And this is true, in spite of women there having to manage their households with no real modern conveniences, and bearing more children, a LOT more, than the rest of us. They are not educated past the 8th grade, I have seen where school was done simply and inexpensively without any bells or whistles in the basement of an Amish church but I would suspect that it is a superior education compared to our own High School grads of today.

So why do these women have such a higher quality of life than the other women in the very states their communities reside in? Well, that's easy. they have strict gender roles.

[Juliet]

"We often think of women being inferior to men but it's just a show. Men are very sensitive creatures and are incredibly vulnerable to women. Men are nearly controlled by women just because she is female. There will be many many women who will need to repent after they realize how they themselves have used men or a husband incorrectly." - Melissa

I like this comment because that is not a perspective you hear about but it is right on. It would be nice if women knew their power as women and how to respect it instead of be embarrassed by it. And the rest of what you say is very good advice. It would be nice to publish information like this because it had gems that you don't find elsewhere.

I picked up on this comment about "control", too. In this world today, control issues among women are HUGE, are definately alive and well in the women of the church, and I would dare to say this is the leading cause of divorce.

A while back I read an article by an LDS marraige counseling couple, who, in this article, totally sympathized with a friend of theirs as she complained to them about her husband. The article was basically a list of his faults and her virtues that went like this: She made him three meals a day, gave him a back massage every night, picked up after him, worked part time, managed the money, paid the bills, and yet their date nights were totally unromantic things he just wanted to do, and she felt completely unappreciated and unloved. This marraige counseling couple went on about how awful her husband was, and that he just really needed to change his ways right now or else! The article ends with the husband humbly coming home from Priesthood meeting where he was told to ask his wife to list all his faults so he could become a "better" husband. And supposedly they lived happily ever after, ha ha !

These marraige counselours acted like this was a very common problem and they see it every day. With the kind of solution they put forward here, no wnder we have so many divorces.

I brought this article up to my bishop when he called me in to advise him because he was overwhelmed with all the women's problems he was dealing with on a one to one basis, and had a good laugh over why we should really just shoot all the marraige counselors out there.

The husband up there was faithful and active in the church, a dutiful Priesthood holder with a solid testimony and just an all around good man. He was a professional businessman, a reasonably attentive father, and was otherwise very responsible. Yet his wife was made out to be his victim.
I brought up this article to my bishop when he called me in to advise him over what to do with all the complaining women he dealt with every week. He was really overwhelmed. The first thing I told my Bishop was " So what does she want him to appreciate her for? That's she is a better man than he is?"

Then I proceeded to state that the real solution for this lady was to completely let go and stop trying to control her husband. After all, what was the real reason she worked a part time job, managed the money, picked up his clothes, did the nightly backrubs, and made three meals a day? Because she felt "in control" when she did. Like the woman in the article, many of these women try very hard to hide their controlling natures by labeling it as self sacrifice, but this just isn't so.


Then I told my bishop that this woman needs to be more in her feminine element, accepting and appreciative of the wonderful guy her husband really is, and more receptive to the many things he probably does for her every day ( or at least used to ), and then in a feminine way, start taking care of her own needs more, instead of demanding attention, etc, from him. If that means quitting the part time job and handing the money management over to him(like it or not), so be it. If you have to tell him the breakfast cereal is in the cupboard, and he gets dinner leftovers for lunch, most men will agree when they see their wife is happier ( most men really want their wife to be happy ). A woman will radiate a much more attractive feminine energy to her husband when she isn't trying to be his mother. Giving up control and becoming very receptive and accepting of the man she has, creates instant peace and opens up a lot more time for her own core feminine style self care, which I can practically guarantee will make her feel better than she has in years and years. It is exhausting to try and be something you are not, and women really aren't small men.

Women in Amish and Mennonite societies do not manifest the problems that constantly trouble women in this modern world. According to recent research, Amish and Mennonite women never ever are bothered with things like weight management, or any body image issues, depression, stress or social isolation,perfectionism, and don't get overwhelmed, feel unloved, unfulfilled, or the myriad of other complaints common to the today's woman. And they have a lot more time for fun. Their health, both mental and physical, is far better than women just outside their communities. I can say from personal knowledge that they are a happy lot of people, especially the kids.

And this is true, in spite of women there having to manage their households with no real modern conveniences, and bearing more children, a LOT more, than the rest of us. They are not educated past the 8th grade, I have seen where school was done simply and inexpensively without any bells or whistles in the basement of an Amish church but I would suspect that it is a superior education compared to our own High School grads of today.

So why do these women have such a higher quality of life than the other women in the very states their communities reside in? Well, that's easy. they have strict gender roles.

Excellent comments. Great post. So how can women stop being controlling and competitive and start being that feminine figure that is so important for a happy family? I am learning it has a lot to do with emotional health. I am learning to recognize what my needs are, meet them, and then do the same for my family. After all, what is the point of hard physical work if you can't enjoy the fruits of your labor? Someone has to look after her and her family's emotional well being so that life is joyful and worth living. If all she cares about is self sacrifice, she will have nothing left to give after a while. And when it is acceptable for the woman to take care of her needs, she will naturally be grateful for all the sacrifices her husband makes for her so that she can be happy on a daily basis.

[braingrunt]

Men and women are different.

It always befuddles me when an atheist feminist likes to pretend that gender roles and differences are arbitrary or invented. But, in the animal world, gender roles are so prevalent that you'd have to be really dense to not see them, or to argue that they are imposed by the (Patri/Matri)archy. And according to their own tenets, we are animals too, specifically mammals-- so I ask them, when, supposedly, did we become immune from our roles and traits selected over many millions of years? I have actually asked this question. The response: but don't you think we should use our reason and try to grow beyond our nature?

I choose to see things differently. Rather than evolution picking our roles, God and/or Eternal Law made those roles. But, whether caused by God or nature, denying those roles is equally silly.

To answer the question: "but don't you think we should use our reason and try to grow beyond our nature?":
Maybe, in some ways. We are to deny the natural man. But actually denying our roles leads to broken things. Broken societies, broken homes, broken people, or things just not working as well as we would wish. The ability to carry on when things are not ideal is indeed praiseworthy. But intentionally breaking the ideal is foolish and evil.

[Sarah]

"We often think of women being inferior to men but it's just a show. Men are very sensitive creatures and are incredibly vulnerable to women. Men are nearly controlled by women just because she is female. There will be many many women who will need to repent after they realize how they themselves have used men or a husband incorrectly." - Melissa

I like this comment because that is not a perspective you hear about but it is right on. It would be nice if women knew their power as women and how to respect it instead of be embarrassed by it. And the rest of what you say is very good advice. It would be nice to publish information like this because it had gems that you don't find elsewhere.

I picked up on this comment about "control", too. In this world today, control issues among women are HUGE, are definately alive and well in the women of the church, and I would dare to say this is the leading cause of divorce.

A while back I read an article by an LDS marraige counseling couple, who, in this article, totally sympathized with a friend of theirs as she complained to them about her husband. The article was basically a list of his faults and her virtues that went like this: She made him three meals a day, gave him a back massage every night, picked up after him, worked part time, managed the money, paid the bills, and yet their date nights were totally unromantic things he just wanted to do, and she felt completely unappreciated and unloved. This marraige counseling couple went on about how awful her husband was, and that he just really needed to change his ways right now or else! The article ends with the husband humbly coming home from Priesthood meeting where he was told to ask his wife to list all his faults so he could become a "better" husband. And supposedly they lived happily ever after, ha ha !

These marraige counselours acted like this was a very common problem and they see it every day. With the kind of solution they put forward here, no wnder we have so many divorces.

I brought this article up to my bishop when he called me in to advise him because he was overwhelmed with all the women's problems he was dealing with on a one to one basis, and had a good laugh over why we should really just shoot all the marraige counselors out there.

The husband up there was faithful and active in the church, a dutiful Priesthood holder with a solid testimony and just an all around good man. He was a professional businessman, a reasonably attentive father, and was otherwise very responsible. Yet his wife was made out to be his victim.
I brought up this article to my bishop when he called me in to advise him over what to do with all the complaining women he dealt with every week. He was really overwhelmed. The first thing I told my Bishop was " So what does she want him to appreciate her for? That's she is a better man than he is?"

Then I proceeded to state that the real solution for this lady was to completely let go and stop trying to control her husband. After all, what was the real reason she worked a part time job, managed the money, picked up his clothes, did the nightly backrubs, and made three meals a day? Because she felt "in control" when she did. Like the woman in the article, many of these women try very hard to hide their controlling natures by labeling it as self sacrifice, but this just isn't so.


Then I told my bishop that this woman needs to be more in her feminine element, accepting and appreciative of the wonderful guy her husband really is, and more receptive to the many things he probably does for her every day ( or at least used to ), and then in a feminine way, start taking care of her own needs more, instead of demanding attention, etc, from him. If that means quitting the part time job and handing the money management over to him(like it or not), so be it. If you have to tell him the breakfast cereal is in the cupboard, and he gets dinner leftovers for lunch, most men will agree when they see their wife is happier ( most men really want their wife to be happy ). A woman will radiate a much more attractive feminine energy to her husband when she isn't trying to be his mother. Giving up control and becoming very receptive and accepting of the man she has, creates instant peace and opens up a lot more time for her own core feminine style self care, which I can practically guarantee will make her feel better than she has in years and years. It is exhausting to try and be something you are not, and women really aren't small men.

Women in Amish and Mennonite societies do not manifest the problems that constantly trouble women in this modern world. According to recent research, Amish and Mennonite women never ever are bothered with things like weight management, or any body image issues, depression, stress or social isolation,perfectionism, and don't get overwhelmed, feel unloved, unfulfilled, or the myriad of other complaints common to the today's woman. And they have a lot more time for fun. Their health, both mental and physical, is far better than women just outside their communities. I can say from personal knowledge that they are a happy lot of people, especially the kids.

And this is true, in spite of women there having to manage their households with no real modern conveniences, and bearing more children, a LOT more, than the rest of us. They are not educated past the 8th grade, I have seen where school was done simply and inexpensively without any bells or whistles in the basement of an Amish church but I would suspect that it is a superior education compared to our own High School grads of today.

So why do these women have such a higher quality of life than the other women in the very states their communities reside in? Well, that's easy. they have strict gender roles.

Excellent comments. Great post. So how can women stop being controlling and competitive and start being that feminine figure that is so important for a happy family? I am learning it has a lot to do with emotional health. I am learning to recognize what my needs are, meet them, and then do the same for my family. After all, what is the point of hard physical work if you can't enjoy the fruits of your labor? Someone has to look after her and her family's emotional well being so that life is joyful and worth living. If all she cares about is self sacrifice, she will have nothing left to give after a while. And when it is acceptable for the woman to take care of her needs, she will naturally be grateful for all the sacrifices her husband makes for her so that she can be happy on a daily basis.

You just have to stop giving so much if you feel like you, life, or your relationship is out of balance. It is hard for some women to say no, and we live in a marriage culture that says everyone deserves everything from their spouse.

I agree with passionflower, but we need to clarify that for many women who self-sacrifice and then expect their husbands to do the same, it is not about feeling in control of the husband, but is sometimes in response to the expectations the wife feels from the husband. The longer this cycle goes, of each having expectations for each other, and then showing disappointment towards each other, the more the wife especially will become manipulative - doing things but expecting something in return. The husband usually starts the marriage off thinking this way. Any disappointment he shows towards his wife, whether it is because of a messy house, cold meal, or disinterest in sex, signals to the woman that he expects something from her, and if she doesn't meet his expectations, she is going to feel less love from him. So the more passive woman responds by trying to do everything to please her man, and when she doesn't feel loved in return, she starts becoming more demanding to counter the demands she feels from him. The more head-strong woman will just stop giving, which causes the man to feel neglected, love her less, and then she feels justified in being mad at him, and the cycle goes on and on. If you feel your spouse's disappointment, you have to tell yourself that your spouse is being selfish, and you are not obligated to give anything unless a certain behavior has been agree upon to happen at or by a certain time. Set boundaries on your giving, like when you are too tired for example, but anytime you withhold giving, you have to give in other ways, and like passionflower said, be happy, in order to reassure your spouse that you are not withholding because of resentment or bitterness, but because one of your boundaries have been crossed - you have too much to do, you feel tired, you are not in the mood, whatever your boundary is, you have to reassure your spouse that you are not giving because of you, and not because how you feel towards your spouse.

[Juliet]

"We often think of women.....

You just have to stop giving so much if you feel like you, life, or your relationship is out of balance. It is hard for some women to say no, and we live in a marriage culture that says everyone deserves everything from their spouse.

I agree with passionflower, but we need to clarify that for many women who self-sacrifice and then expect their husbands to do the same, it is not about feeling in control of the husband, but is sometimes in response to the expectations the wife feels from the husband. The longer this cycle goes, of each having expectations for each other, and then showing disappointment towards each other, the more the wife especially will become manipulative - doing things but expecting something in return. The husband usually starts the marriage off thinking this way. Any disappointment he shows towards his wife, whether it is because of a messy house, cold meal, or disinterest in sex, signals to the woman that he expects something from her, and if she doesn't meet his expectations, she is going to feel less love from him. So the more passive woman responds by trying to do everything to please her man, and when she doesn't feel loved in return, she starts becoming more demanding to counter the demands she feels from him. The more head-strong woman will just stop giving, which causes the man to feel neglected, love her less, and then she feels justified in being mad at him, and the cycle goes on and on. If you feel your spouse's disappointment, you have to tell yourself that your spouse is being selfish, and you are not obligated to give anything unless a certain behavior has been agree upon to happen at or by a certain time. Set boundaries on your giving, like when you are too tired for example, but anytime you withhold giving, you have to give in other ways, and like passionflower said, be happy, in order to reassure your spouse that you are not withholding because of resentment or bitterness, but because one of your boundaries have been crossed - you have too much to do, you feel tired, you are not in the mood, whatever your boundary is, you have to reassure your spouse that you are not giving because of you, and not because how you feel towards your spouse.

I think you have found the root of the problem. Expectations to perform don't work very well. Maybe some people will disagree, but I think there needs to be unconditional love and each working on self expectations instead of worrying about what the other person should be doing. Also when there are false expectations, communication can clear it up.

One time, i asked my husband to help me up, and he kind of rolled his eyes, and I felt horrible because he didn't want to help me up. But I was even more embarrassed to communicate my feelings because I shouldn't get offended at something so small. It took guts to finally admit that I was upset at how he rolled his eyes at me, because I felt like he was subconsciously thinking I am too heavy! But talking to him we cleared it up and he clarified that he really didn't mean anything by it and in the future he will be happy to help me up.

So when we try to please each other and fail, it doesn't hurt to communicate that so you can clear up any beliefs that turn out to be wrong.

[Juliet]

I really struggle with motherhood. Growing up, I couldn't wait to have my own babies. Now that I have them I feel like a failure on a daily basis. I hear a lot of sincere compliments from others saying that I'm a great mom, but most days I feel lost.

If I had a career, I could work and be very successful. Having a career would be nothing compared to motherhood- a career would be a breeze. My husband even seriously recommended that I go back to work because I really enjoyed my job before I left it. But I knew that going back to work wouldn't teach me the things I need to be learning.

Of course I love my babies and I'd do anything for them, but it is hard...really hard.
And granted, we don't really have any outside help and my husband and I average a date 2 times per year and hardly ever get to see each other during the week. But...we make it work.

As far as gender roles go, I have given up on them. I think the majority of them are all cultural besides the obvious ones (women birth and breastfeed the babies). In all my study of history, there have been plenty of matriarchal societies where the roles we see today were completely reversed. And it is interesting that matriarchal societies were typically the ones with little to no war. Female leaders relied upon discussion and treaties instead of killing to solve their problems.

In ancient societies, women were revered and even feared for their "magical powers" of creating life within them. There came a point where men wanted to be superior so they began to call women witches, tweaked the bible to blame things on Eve, and said that women's natural body functions such as menstruation and giving birth were unclean side effects of women's disfavor with God.

So what we view today as gender roles are basically just current social trends. My thinking is: become one with your spouse and if it works for the 2 of you then that's what your role is.

It is really hard, and it does feel like a loss. When I am nursing, I can feel the brain chemicals. It is like forcing you to dumb down. And, there isnt even time to do much else. The minute I get up to empty the dishwasher, get interrupted to resolve a fight between my toddler and preschooler, the baby wakes up and it is back to the cycle again of nursing, getting up to unload the dishwasher, and then stopping to help get toddler into the toilet. Then hungry child needs a snack and so you have to decide do nurture him or teach him patience? If I choose the former then the dishwasher will never get unloaded. If I choose the latter I must outwit him with superior reasoning and be iron woman to not give in to his complaints. Then I log it away as something to prevent the hunger before dinner next time, since this is the 3rd time this week it has happened. On my way to pick up kid from the bathroom I see the crumbs in the couch. I must figure out how to keep the kids from eating on the couch while I am with the baby. OK, compromise, hungry child can get some milk as he has already helped himself to it and spilled every where. Second thought, toddler screams for me to go away, she can do it by herself. I will have to be on call for the 2 minutes until she decides she wants help. OK, back to the dishwasher.

And then there is bed time. If I spent as much time in the practice room with my flute as I do getting my kids to bed each night, I would be the next James Galway. I used to puff my chest up at how amazing I was to practice 4 hours a day. Little did I know. Maybe I am just a snowflake but motherhood is very hard.

[Juliet]

:ymparty:

One thing that I would like to add on the subject of how men and women can respect each other is: always look up at your spouse. Always look for something positive in your spouse that you can boast about. When I hear a husband or wife speaking critically of their spouse, I know that marriage is in trouble.

If you need to, put a lot of effort into sincerely praying for help developing an attitude of admiration toward your spouse. When you both think that you have an amazing spouse and feel lucky to have them in your life, you will have stronger desires to do special things for them and a happy family environment should come relatively easily. When the husband comes home and he's upset that his dinner is cold and his wife looks slovenly, or when the husband comes home and the wife is upset that he isn't immediately taking an active role in everything in the house, the results will be toxic.

[Juliet]

One thing that I would like to add on the subject of how men and women can respect each other is: always look up at your spouse. Always look for something positive in your spouse that you can boast about. When I hear a husband or wife speaking critically of their spouse, I know that marriage is in trouble.

If you need to, put a lot of effort into sincerely praying for help developing an attitude of admiration toward your spouse. When you both think that you have an amazing spouse and feel lucky to have them in your life, you will have stronger desires to do special things for them and a happy family environment should come relatively easily. When the husband comes home and he's upset that his dinner is cold and his wife looks slovenly, or when the husband comes home and the wife is upset that he isn't immediately taking an active role in everything in the house, the results will be toxic.

Thank you. Thus is what we learned in my marriage class and we studied John Gottman. His research showed that the no 1 trait of happy marriages is that the spouses thought highly of each other most of the time. And the no 1 trait of divorces was disgust toward each other. It really is our choice what we choose to think of our spouse.

[Sarah]

You just have to stop giving so much if you feel like you, life, or your relationship is out of balance. It is hard for some women to say no, and we live in a marriage culture that says everyone deserves everything from their spouse.

I agree with passionflower, but we need to clarify that for many women who self-sacrifice and then expect their husbands to do the same, it is not about feeling in control of the husband, but is sometimes in response to the expectations the wife feels from the husband. The longer this cycle goes, of each having expectations for each other, and then showing disappointment towards each other, the more the wife especially will become manipulative - doing things but expecting something in return. The husband usually starts the marriage off thinking this way. Any disappointment he shows towards his wife, whether it is because of a messy house, cold meal, or disinterest in sex, signals to the woman that he expects something from her, and if she doesn't meet his expectations, she is going to feel less love from him. So the more passive woman responds by trying to do everything to please her man, and when she doesn't feel loved in return, she starts becoming more demanding to counter the demands she feels from him. The more head-strong woman will just stop giving, which causes the man to feel neglected, love her less, and then she feels justified in being mad at him, and the cycle goes on and on. If you feel your spouse's disappointment, you have to tell yourself that your spouse is being selfish, and you are not obligated to give anything unless a certain behavior has been agree upon to happen at or by a certain time. Set boundaries on your giving, like when you are too tired for example, but anytime you withhold giving, you have to give in other ways, and like passionflower said, be happy, in order to reassure your spouse that you are not withholding because of resentment or bitterness, but because one of your boundaries have been crossed - you have too much to do, you feel tired, you are not in the mood, whatever your boundary is, you have to reassure your spouse that you are not giving because of you, and not because how you feel towards your spouse.

I think you have found the root of the problem. Expectations to perform don't work very well. Maybe some people will disagree, but I think there needs to be unconditional love and each working on self expectations instead of worrying about what the other person should be doing. Also when there are false expectations, communication can clear it up.

One time, i asked my husband to help me up, and he kind of rolled his eyes, and I felt horrible because he didn't want to help me up. But I was even more embarrassed to communicate my feelings because I shouldn't get offended at something so small. It took guts to finally admit that I was upset at how he rolled his eyes at me, because I felt like he was subconsciously thinking I am too heavy! But talking to him we cleared it up and he clarified that he really didn't mean anything by it and in the future he will be happy to help me up.

So when we try to please each other and fail, it doesn't hurt to communicate that so you can clear up any beliefs that turn out to be wrong.

If you're trying to please your spouse so you can be loved in return, you're not really loving unconditionally. Your love gifts are actually requests, and that is how your spouse interprets your gifts of love. We need to give love-gifts without expecting anything in return. But, if you find that you are not receiving, there is no reason you must give. There should be a back and forth of giving and receiving, and part of receiving correctly is giving back. So if you're not receiving from your spouse, then how can you reciprocate and give back? Unconditional love does not translate into unconditional giving. Think about how that works with your children.

The problem in marriage is that there are different ways to show love, and one spouse will expect that since he or she is giving one type of gift, that he or she should receive a different type of gift in return. It shouldn't work that way. Work gifts for work gifts, monetary gifts for monetary gifts, physical intimacy gifts for physical intimacy gifts. Better yet, just give good gifts that your spouse will appreciate, give your spouse freedom to give as he or she wants to, set boundaries on your giving, and be patient in receiving,

[JohnnyL]

Thank you for your story. I am sure your career and schooling has helped you be a mother as well, and for personal growth it is important.

If women following their husband's is for order and just semantics, I hope that becomes more clear. There have been times where I feel the Lord wants A, but my husband wants B, so I have gone to the Lord and said so be it, my husband chooses B so I will follow him to respect his leadership in our home, because otherwise it would bring contention and that is not right either.

If you were ever on a mission like mine, you'd sometimes get stuck with some pretty cruddy senior companions.

A. There were times to voice an opinion, times to persuade, times to charm, times to serve, times to teach, times to discuss, times to energize, times to guide, times to support and help and sustain (meant, in multiple meanings of the word).

B. Or you could do what I did too much of the time and resist, argue, think bad about them, etc.

Women have so much more power that they are not willing to use--due to a lack of FEMININITY. There are some women many guys would do about anything for--because those women use A instead of B.

I do feel that the culture is still unbalanced in how a woman submits to a man and how a man serves and teaches his wife. Sometimes I wonder if the holier gender agreed to take a subservient role so the other gender can gain leadership experience. I hope that doesn't sound prideful because I think both genders have their weaknesses, which is why we need to learn how to love and respect each other regardless, but I really just want to know the truth.

"Holier gender"?

Looking at it from a business perspective, it is the boss who gets paid more, so isn't it natural as a woman to look at the patriarchal order and think she is the lesser of the two, and not only that, but doesn't the woman have more shame because she partook of the fruit and thereby disobeyed God first, so technically men can and maybe do subconsciously blame women for all their trials in this difficult world since if it weren't for her, he wouldn't be here either?

It's often the marketer (and sometimes the salesman) who gets paid more than the boss for many companies, especially for the "amount" of work done.
Well... one of the reasons men don't get married is because of the trials that women bring into their lives--subconsciously and (very) consciously, from Eve to their future one. Unfortunately, they don't see the other side of the coin.