A letter to mormons from a non-mormon

[anonymousutahatheist]

Sorry for this being long but I just wanted to share


Dear LDS folks,


I am writing to you today because I am frustrated. I am Frustrated and I don't know what to do. I have lived in Utah my whole life. I was never LDS and I often was that guy who just made stupid polygamist and “magic underwear” jokes. Completely rude and I apologize for that. I realized that I just don't understand you. I did research on your history and learning your history might have helped me to find a common bridge and I wanted to share. It begins with me ranting a little bit but I just wanted to include it so that you can hear my positions and how I feel I can find a compromise.

Donald Trump is more popular in this state than Barack Obama. I am just perplexed to how my fellow neighbors that I know to be sweet, gracious, generous, and respectful neighbors could possibly be more keen to Donald Trump, the most... you know what, I am so sick of trying to think of new adjectives to express how vulgar and un-dignifying Donald Trump is every time I go on this rant, but I think you get the point.

Donald Trump is like the 2nd grade school kid I brought home after school because he insisted and then he stayed all evening and dropped the F bomb in front of my mom twice!

Ok, just one last thing to do with Donald Trump and then I'm tapping out. How can my great and gracious neighbors also support a man like Jason Chaffetz. After Donald Trump all but admitted to sexually assaulting women and talking about them like they're trash, Mr. Chaffetz said that he couldn't vote for Trump and look his daughter in the eye. Then he voted for Trump. So this man who claims that he believes families are forever, used his personal relationship with his daughter to exclaim a shunning against a man that was that was so vile, he wouldn't even vote for his own parties interest. And then he votes for him. Why? Because Hillary was that bad, he said.

Was Hillary that bad? Was Obama that bad? Just look at the facts with Obama. Where the country was when he took office, was much worse than when he left it. Did he do everything perfect and why did some areas get worse? Well I think that if we all looked at our personal history we'd like to change some things and improve more of the failures, even LDS history has some foibles that many of you would prefer to not focus on. And thats ok, because mistakes are what improve us as a society and a world. As long as you're learning from them. So, I would say that Obama wasn't perfect but no one could call him a failure.

“But Seriously,” you're thinking, “Hillary was that bad.” No, she was NOT that bad. Hillary, again, was flawed, but she was one of the most qualified humans to ever be president, and she was rejected for a human blow horn (does a subtle reference count?) that spews nothing but negativity and nonsense. A man that Mitt Romney called a “conman.”

A careful examination of the so called “scandals” involving the Clintons are either wacko conspiracies, like the alleged child sex ring at a DC pizza parlor that culminated into a man going into the pizza parlor where children were eating and a loaded rifle and fired 2 shots. Or they are complicated issues that don't have specific conclusions but the details are so gritty that you can't help but feel the one being “investigated” is a criminal. Mr. Chaffetz was more than happy to hold several investigations against Hillary. One of his party leaders even stated that they worked because her “poll numbers” went down. They used character assignations to gain political favor.

If Hillary was elected though, she had many ambitious plans.

-She had a childcare plan that would give maternity AND paternity leave. Not because She is against traditional family values, but because she believes that a husband should be there to bond in the early, intimate stages of life and maybe change a few diapers too!


-She had plan to make State College tuition free for millions of americans and free Community College. Do you or someone you know suffer from chronic student debt? Vote Trump who has no plan to address it and zero empathy of what it ever feels like to have money problems

-She had a comprehensive mental health plan. It was going to help our homeless and reduce so much pain felt by families affected by mental health issues.

-She had an immigration plan. Mormons are very compassionate to immigrants. Probably because of their own history of not feeling welcomed and the robust efforts to evangelize across the world. Now the GOP is in favor of extending DACA to the many undocumented workers that came here as children, but suffer the consequences. All the while, the USA is all they know. They say that the problem is that Obama acted like a dictator doing it as an executive order even though the bill for that law has been written since 2001 and was Sponsored by Sen. Orrin Hatch! The GOP just couldn't get on board, probably because they didn't want to upset the very people you heard yelling, “BUILD THAT WALL! BUILD THAT WALL!”

I could go on but I think I made the point. Hillary Clinton, just like Obama, would not be perfect but she would not be a failure. But this is why I am so frustrated, I feel hopeless in my beloved state. I want to understand LDS people better. I read up on your history and found it intriguing. I'd like to share what I found.

When Joseph Smith was a youth, he was clearly bright. He also had determination, probably contagious determination that anything could be done. I learned that he was sick and almost had to have his leg amputated but instead there was a novel surgery that saved his leg. No doubt his determined attitude assisted the surgery. He would forever have a limp, but that is what makes Smith so special. He didn't care whether or not he had a limp, just as long as he could keep moving forward. I'm sure that if he had it amputated he would have been hopping around.

He proved his charisma and faith by starting a new religion, or as some might say, carrying forward the one true religion. So it was obvious that he started a movement. This movement was a little strange to the surrounding citizens and often the LDS settlers would be persecuted, so you just moved on. You took your peaceful leave and moved forward. You didn't care about anything other than just having the freedom to practice your religion with peace. Every time you got persecuted, again, you just moved on. After Joseph Smith was murdered in cold blood, your new leader, Brigham Young, carried forward the determined spirit to worship your faith openly and without persecution. So, you went west.

People still thought your beliefs were weird but now you were out of their hair, and you had the wisdom to not keep going too far west. Your people were going to create Zion. Sure there are some kerfuffles here and there, maybe some history that is best left unsaid, but you found your place to finally create your own little paradise.

Then the feds got involved. This time was different. You kept moving on, you respected your citizens and followed Jesus example, you took your leave. So now, you are willing to fight to keep your paradise. Because they were trying to take away what you have trekked through arduous conditions after peacefully moving on from your persecutors, to claim of your own in the brand new country.

Shrewdly, though, you realized that you could not defeat the USA but you could join it. You made some compromises but you had that determined spirit to keep moving forward, limp or no limp. You built a beautiful state. You had a rich spiritual and religious environment, but you also had an openness to ideas. At one time, Utahns weren't so staunchly aligned with one party. One party that was especially disliked in Utah, was the party that fought against you having statehood, the Republican Party. Utah was really a moderate political state with a very strong Democratic leaning.

So what happened? I have one theory. Utahns created a new society and it was naturally insular since they settled where no other large communities lived. After several generations, the Mormon settlers lost touch with the part of this history that is peaceful and focuses on moving forward. They lost touch with the fact that they were the abnormal infiltrators at one point.Then, when outsiders started settling in this beautiful state, we live in, the Mormons were the ones that looked at them as infiltrators.

Of course, they weren't going to violently persecute them like they had been. They were going to use the power of politics to keep their cultural interests protected. Like many other religious folks, social issues forced them out of the Democratic party. In Utah, a special effort was pushed to have strong feelings towards these social issues. It cemented an era of GOP domination in Utah, and many other states. Although there is a very vocal minority, the GOP will never have to worry about a serious challenge. They'll always win their races by 30 or 40 percentage points. Utahns could be overwhelmingly against a position that their Representative holds but it doesn't matter. The real race, is the Republican primary race.

So this is fwhy I feel hopeless. I am one of many non-Mormons living in Utah. I just want to find a bridge, because the more we stay in our respective bubbles, the larger our divide will be. I admit that I was in a bubble. There are such things as liberal elitist. I just cant help but get the feeling that mormons should be able to empathize with me more. I am different from you, I am a stranger. I don't want to hurt you or get in the way of your religious beliefs. If we have co-respect for each other, that is how we can mend this divide.

I can't help but feel like Mormons gave up the idea that we could have differing political views while still being united in faith? Am I wrong? Wouldn't any Mormon acknowledge that Family, Faith, and God are forever and that politics are just a temporary necessary evil? But again, Jason Chaffetz used his daughter as a fake proclamation of how opposed he is to Donald Trumps character! I don't understand how those 2 things can reconcile.

What seems to have happened is this, Mormons were for a long time looked at with scorn around the country. You may have heard of the clearly false rumors that mormons had tails and horns. Christians especially didn't like them. They refused to accept them, even as fellow Christians. What changed was the socially liberal revolution. Mormons proved that they could be in the Conservative Christian Club when they rejected gay rights, abortion right, and other civil rights. Now Mormons could be taken seriously as main stream. They weren't diametrically afraid of a Mormon leading their party.Even getting a high ranking Mormon leader the nomination to run fro president of a major party.

Now we live in this state that is in practically absolute control of one party via its religion. Our voter turnout is one of the lowest in the country. No one feels like their vote matters, either side of the aisle. I have an ambitious idea, lets go back to when we were an open society that could live by faith but vote their conscience?

I have some proposals that I am making

1. I want to quit criticizing mormons for “running the State” and “taking all our money.” It would be ridiculous to not accept that a state with a wide majority of one religion would have no affect on the way it is legislated
2. I want to never again say nasty vulgar insults about mormons, whether it be to their face or nameless on the internet and condemn those that do.
3. I will not judge you for your “strange” religious practices if you refuse to judge anyone because of their “strange” lifestyle choices. As long you're in no danger and you can carry on your lifestyle, who cares? That is living in a free society
4. Stop with the stupid liquor laws. Surely you cant say you're not trying to impose your religious beliefs on us drinkers? I understand that you don't want drinking to be normalized in your world and you're probably mostly worried about your kids. Maybe for a change though, this kind of education could be more focused in classroom and moral issues could be stressed more in the home
5. Stop with the stupid sex-ed. Abstinence only education doesn't work. Key word is education. Of course abstinence is the only sure fire way to keep from getting pregnant, but that form of sex-ed only leaves teens more confused. They still have natural desires, but no idea of how their bodies even work. So sex-ed could be more robust, ensuring that kids know whats going on and how to protect themselves. If they need to avoid sex because of spiritual protection, then that should be focussed on at Church and in the Home, isn't that a fair compromise? One great benefit is that it will lower teenage pregnancies and abortions. No doubt both of those would reduce needs for avoidable abortions, and reduce a strain on welfare benefits.
6. Lets lead the nation on working to make voting easier. This should be common sense and bi-partisan but it is another victim of the Obama Hate years. Everyone that can, should vote. Lets set the standard in our state that we truly believe all Utahns should take party in their patriotic duty.
7. Lets lead the nation in a green energy party. We feel the disgusting side affects from pollution. We could lead the nation in promoting green energy. Our state is beautiful and that alone should be the driving factor behind protecting its health.
8. The Utah VS BYU rivalry will no longer be Mormon VS Non-Mormon. Utah was founded by Brigham Young and most of the students and fans are Mormon. Stop making it a religious battle. HeeHee, had to throw that one in there


In closing, I want to share that I am writing this as an atheist. I share this with the confidence that after considering what Mormons have gone through because of their religious beliefs, they'll understand, that, they don't have to understand the lack of mine. They can have the peace and security to know that our differences in religion don't have to affect our interest in the common good for our state and our fellow Utahns.

I want to run for office one day, I want to become an advocate for causes I believe in, and I want to do it openly about who I am. I may be an atheist, but I don't want to leave my beloved state. It is my paradise and I want to fight to protect it. So please, work with me so that I can sign this with my name instead of, simply, “anonymous.” If I came out as atheist then I would never be welcomed to have a strong place in my paradise. I am forced to either give up my deeply held personal beliefs, or I have to move along, limping on one leg.

Anonymous Atheist in Utah

[eddie]

This rant is messed up..

[Obrien]

This rant is messed up..

You must be a Utah Mormon...

[eddie]

This rant is messed up..

You must be a Utah Mormon...

Not even close, but it's my church too. Lol

[Sarah]

Lots of Mormons did not vote for Trump, me being one of them, and lots of LDS family and friends I know. The Mormons I know who did vote for him held their noses at all the personal baggage and voted for him because they felt strongly on either immigration or economic issues, and of course those who just did not like Hilary. Elections are not necessarily about the particular candidates, but about the principles and issues involved - conservative economic and social ideas vs. liberal ideas. It would take a lot of time to address each issue and why I, for example, would support strict drug and alcohol laws, and the traditional definition of marriage, but less regulation when it comes to economic issues.

Liberals lean towards regulation that goes beyond preserving basic rights, it's usually focused on using taxation and laws to equalize everything to an extreme. It's about forcing others to give something to someone else to achieve equalization. This has it's problems, one being that it leads to a population that is not receiving correctly - they feel entitled and are not giving back. And the givers are giving grudgingly and start resenting the poor. The better way is to encourage givers to give out of love and respect to the poor, and for receivers to show appreciation by giving back in some way.

So in my mind it seems kind of ironic that economic and social inequality are justifiable reasons for the liberal to regulate behavior, but the danger that is inherent in alcohol and drug abuse, and rewarding same-sex parents with the same status as opposite parents, and the danger of NOT preaching abstinence, are seemingly not good reasons to regulate behavior. Conservatives are more concerned about regulating behavior that helps to preserve freedom and basic rights, than trying to make the ideal society. The right to life, the right to own property, the right to worship etc. History tells us that those in power abuse it. So who would you rather have or abuse more power - a tyrant as a leader of a nation, or Walmart? Just get government's tentacles out of regulating business, and you won't have business marrying itself to government officials, corrupting them.

Is there a particular issue that is most important to you that you would like to discuss?

[Alaris]

I have lived in Utah my whole life.

....discovered the root of the problem

Firstly I assume you know LDS well enough that you can take advantage of their kindness and desire to convert by writing a lengthy essay that we will be obliged to read.

If you think Trump is horrible and Obama isn't so bad I suggest you try new sources of infornation. I am not celebrating Trump and agree with some of what you say about him. Hillary Clinton would have been far, far worse. Her scandals.. Her inability to manage her scandals...bengazi...covering for her sexual predator hubby...rigging the election against Bernie....her shrillness....Libya....Russia....her desire for my guns. No thank you. Her defeat is something I'll celebrate as Id much rather listen to the sound of liberals weeping and wailing and gnashing their teeth than to listen to her for the next 4-8 years.

[Merriner]

I just read the part about Hillary and Obama and knew I wouldn't benefit from it. Hopefully, someday you'll have a great awakening as to what what Obama and Hillary really did for us. Some Americans survive in spite of what our politicians have been doing to us for the last hundred years, but there is no way that you can say that Obama or any other politician has saved us from disaster. It is an illusion of prosperity. It is all propped up until it is high enough to drop and have it break into a million pieces. Debt is their prime amunition for our destruction. Theft is their control mechanism to keep us from becoming too prosperous, and deception and lies is a full time job for them. They are setting all the booby traps so that they can blame trump when they blow it up on him. You have to watch the other hand. When the media is all over a scandall for 4 months you need to be paying attention to what they are doing when the bobble heads are talking. Its all a distraction. Don't listen to what they tell you, look at how they vote on bills and legislate our freedoms away and put us in a smaller and smaller box and threaten us with a bigger and bigger hammer if we step out of that box to challenge them. Trump is not a controlled politician. The entire establishment is out on the most expensive smear campaign ever perpetrated on any one person. Hillary Clinton is a 4th degree coven witch and she is surrounded by the entire luciferian cabal. Haha.

[davedan]

I voted for Derrell Castle.

[tribrac]

OP had so many kind words for Obama. I didn't realize Obama was a choice in November, my ballot choices were Hillary or Trump. Its kind of like Shiz or Coriantumur, and that is about where we are headed.

What I couldn't figure out was why so many of my democratic friends who hate war, and despise rich connected people getting richer were all loving on Hillary who had gorged herself on public spoils and never ceased exploiting her political star power for personal gain all while spreading war and campaigning on a pro-war with Russia platform.

[Sandinista]

So what's you point? Trump is now the President. We should all support him and our elected representatives. If you don't like something then speak up and let your elected representatives know. But if you don't get your way, or if they decide to do something different based on their understanding of what their constituents want, then let it go.

You're wasting a lot of time and energy whining.

BTW, I don't live in Utah and hope to never have to!

[markharr]

Barack Obama is more dignified but a lot of good it did this country. He didn't do one thing to help anyone but himself and his elitist buddies on the two coasts.

Trump may be crass, undignified and a boor but if he keeps his promises he will be a great president. I will take undignified but effective over dignified and ineffective any day.

[captainfearnot]

I happen to agree with OP that Obama was a decent president, and Hillary might have been a decent president, and Trump is a disaster.

But I lay the blame for that disaster squarely at Hillary's feet.

For all her qualifications, she has been around the block enough times to know that politics is not about qualifications. She knew how despised she was as a candidate and a person, but ran for president anyway because she felt her experience and qualifications entitled her to the position. She should have realized that her incredibly high negatives put her entire party in jeopardy and stepped aside.

For that matter, we can blame Biden and any other viable Democratic candidate who might have easily beaten Trump but acquiesced to Hillary's staggering ambition. In a very real sense Trump is president because Biden, at the height of his own popularity, failed to stand up to Hillary in light of the political reality that she has been incredibly unpopular for decades.

(Of course, it goes without saying that Trump is president because of the tragic race to the bottom that was the Republican primary this election.)

Say what you will about Obama, he was nominated in 2008 because the Democrats thought he would be a great president. He might have been anything but that, but at least the Democrats tried to put their best foot forward with that nomination. Same with the Republicans in 2012 with Romney. They picked the guy they thought would be the best president from their party, and I happen to think they got it right.

In 2016 it's as if each party intentionally made their nominations out of malice. They surveyed their candidates and asked, "which of these people, if elected, will cause the most angst and consternation among our political opponents?" And then proceeded to nominate that person.

[paulrobots]

You aren't mad at mormons, you're boo hooing about people who didn't vote for your sickly, corrupt, unfemminate hag candidate. Welcome to the last 8 years. :(( :p

[captainfearnot]

You aren't mad at mormons, you're boo hooing about people who didn't vote for your sickly, corrupt, unfemminate hag candidate. Welcome to the last 8 years. :(( :p

This post illustrates exactly what I was trying to say. Trump was nominated (and ultimately elected) by people who have been angry for eight years that Obama was president, and whose primary motivation is not policy or governance, but a desire to have their "revenge" on the other side. They wanted someone that the the other side would hate as much as their side hated Obama, and that's exactly what they got.

[Mcox]

I did not vote for Trump or Hillary, but the votes are in and Donald Trump is the president. I have respect for that office and will pray for and support him as president. The Church of Jesus Christ of Laterday Saints is politically neutral. It leaves its members to make good choices when it comes to government positions.The election of a president is an event in which Latter-day Saints in America take great interest. They believe that theirs is a land “choice above all other lands,” that its Constitution is divinely inspired, and that the American nation has a special destiny. we must try to elect those who uphold the constitution and who have values. From time to time, we get presidents that don't. So me must all come together and work for the good of us Americans.

[paulrobots]

You aren't mad at mormons, you're boo hooing about people who didn't vote for your sickly, corrupt, unfemminate hag candidate. Welcome to the last 8 years. :(( :p

This post illustrates exactly what I was trying to say. Trump was nominated (and ultimately elected) by people who have been angry for eight years that Obama was president, and whose primary motivation is not policy or governance, but a desire to have their "revenge" on the other side. They wanted someone that the the other side would hate as much as their side hated Obama, and that's exactly what they got.

Just as obama was elected by people who had lived through GW Bush, and on and on. That's how it works, get over it.

To say it wasn't motivated by policy is disengenuous. I listened to both their speeches and their policies. Trumps was closer to what I think America needs at this time. hillary was more of the same, America sucks, we aren't exceptional, we should give more power to the un and take our third world status like everyone else.

Donald Trump is far from perfect but by far the better choice. I was never going to vote third party like some here suggested, because it is a wasted vote. Furthermore, their weren't any third party candidates worth voting for.

This change happens every four or eight years. The next person will be elected because of Trump's policies, just like Trump was elected in consequence of obama's policies. Your butt hurt is as old as America or maybe as old as democracy itself.

[captainfearnot]

Just as obama was elected by people who had lived through GW Bush, and on and on. That's how it works, get over it.

This change happens every four or eight years. The next person will be elected because of Trump's policies, just like Trump was elected in consequence of obama's policies. Your butt hurt is as old as America or maybe as old as democracy itself.

You misunderstand me completely. What I'm referring to is the fact that both major parties nominated someone with record-breaking unfavorability ratings. This doesn't happen every four years. This is unique in modern history.

Obama was broadly popular when he took office. So was W. So were Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, on down the line. Generally, the person who wins the election enters office with positive favorability ratings. Because people generally like them, you see, and that's why they won the election.

Not so this year. Trump is entering office with the lowest approval rating ever for an incoming president.

This isn't butthurt because my side lost. If Hillary had won, she would be the one entering office with the historically low approval rating. I'm saying both sides played the game differently this year by nominating a candidate more widely hated than liked. We've entered an era of unprecedented polarization where each side cares more about hurting the other than reaching even the broadest consensus.

[eddie]

You aren't mad at mormons, you're boo hooing about people who didn't vote for your sickly, corrupt, unfemminate hag candidate. Welcome to the last 8 years. :(( :p

This post illustrates exactly what I was trying to say. Trump was nominated (and ultimately elected) by people who have been angry for eight years that Obama was president, and whose primary motivation is not policy or governance, but a desire to have their "revenge" on the other side. They wanted someone that the the other side would hate as much as their side hated Obama, and that's exactly what they got.

Revenge was not our motive, it is a cop-out to even state such a thing. We wanted someone with the strength to stand up, someone with the guts to say what needed to be said, not a career criminal like Clinton, to whom you think would have been an ok President. I beseech you to listen to what you say.

[oneClimbs]

There's never going to be a way to look at the reasons why people voted in any election in a manner that makes everyone happy. To be fair, our choices were pretty darn poor. You could make an argument for either. Some care more about qualifications, more about their records, more about character, and others about the their choices for supreme court, or the underlying parties themselves. Everyone is going to feel that some things are more important than others, that's the way it has always been.

There's just so much propaganda and crap put out there, and personally I think that both parties work as a single entity, focusing on different aspects of the same agenda depending on who is in power. Does this have to be a well-orchestrated conspiracy? Not really. As someone once said, "Lion do not conspire to kill antelope, yet they act in accordance with each other to achieve their aims."

As for the OP, Mormons do not like socialism and they see the Democrat party as socialist mainly because of the socialist things they stand for. This is probably why they don't like Obama. Other than that, he's probably a really nice guy. If I had a choice as to who I would like to have over for dinner, I would probably choose the Obamas over the Trumps. If I have to choose who is running things, I would have to say neither, but since neither isn't an option, you have to choose between which ideology is going to do less rather than more damage. As for me, I voted for Darrell Castle as well, mainly because I've met his running mate Scott Bradley and I know that guy is legit (also because they were drafted by their party, they didn't choose to run).

Anyway, anonymousutahatheist, it's a weird thing all around. Before the election, everyone I knew made fun of Trump and thought he was a clown. Once he became "the candidate" people seemed to be finding anything good they could in him. Last night I heard my family praising how well together his family looked and how attractive they all were. There was a comparison to Mrs. Trump and Jackie O and how distinguished she looked and I about fell out of my chair. These are weird times, anonymousutahatheist, I've tried to make sense of it but I've only ended up with headaches.

The people are having bad choices forced upon them and polls don't tell the whole story. When I talk to people on both sides, they are sincere in their beliefs that are mostly shaped by media talking points. I don't think anyone really knows what is going on, not really. The people are almost entirely detached from their representatives and the process itself.

[Thomas]

anonymousutahatheist wrote: If Hillary was elected though, she had many ambitious plans.

-She had a childcare plan that would give maternity AND paternity leave. Not because She is against traditional family values, but because she believes that a husband should be there to bond in the early, intimate stages of life and maybe change a few diapers too!


-She had plan to make State College tuition free for millions of americans and free Community College. Do you or someone you know suffer from chronic student debt? Vote Trump who has no plan to address it and zero empathy of what it ever feels like to have money problems

-She had a comprehensive mental health plan. It was going to help our homeless and reduce so much pain felt by families affected by mental health issues.

How is it Hillary was going to give us theses things? Is she somehow fabulously wealthy and we don't know about it?

Fact is, government can give us nothing. They only take from us. Liberals don't know how to create anything. They only know how to take from others, by force.

[OCDMOM]

I've decided people vote for the nominee with the most charisma. Trump= charisma, Hillary= zero charisma. Obama=charisma, Romney no charisma. Nobody cares that Obama is a Marxist as long as he is likeable. No one votes for the best candidate. As for Hillary she is evil. she thinks it's ok to kill unborn babies at full term. No one with an ounce of morals could vote for her. She stole money that was supposed to help the poverty stricken in Haiti.

[Older/wiser?]

anonymousutahatheist wrote: If Hillary was elected though, she had many ambitious plans.

-She had a childcare plan that would give maternity AND paternity leave. Not because She is against traditional family values, but because she believes that a husband should be there to bond in the early, intimate stages of life and maybe change a few diapers too!


-She had plan to make State College tuition free for millions of americans and free Community College. Do you or someone you know suffer from chronic student debt? Vote Trump who has no plan to address it and zero empathy of what it ever feels like to have money problems

-She had a comprehensive mental health plan. It was going to help our homeless and reduce so much pain felt by families affected by mental health issues.

How is it Hillary was going to give us theses things? Is she somehow fabulously wealthy and we don't know about it?

Fact is, government can give us nothing. They only take from us. Liberals don't know how to create anything. They only know how to take from others, by force.

Your right on that point ,I can come up with plans for this or that but paying for it? Government plan, either print more money or raise taxes. There is no independent wealth residing in "the government" then again I hear the Clinton foundation is wealthy maybe we could get funding from her? Oh sorry I mean the foundation. As far as Trump having Charisma, not so much. He is brasin, bold, obnoxious, maybe a tad honest (maybe not so moral yet Bill seemed to be forgiven of that one)
and yet I do believe he cares for and loves this Country which is more than I can say for the past professional Vactioner, golfer, using my tax dollar to the tune of $90 million out going politician.

[Fiannan]

Anxiously awaiting the OP's author's additional comments.

[Fiannan]

You aren't mad at mormons, you're boo hooing about people who didn't vote for your sickly, corrupt, unfemminate hag candidate. Welcome to the last 8 years. :(( :p

This post illustrates exactly what I was trying to say. Trump was nominated (and ultimately elected) by people who have been angry for eight years that Obama was president, and whose primary motivation is not policy or governance, but a desire to have their "revenge" on the other side. They wanted someone that the the other side would hate as much as their side hated Obama, and that's exactly what they got.

A large percentage of Trump voters were people who voted for Obama in one or both previous elections.

Next theory?

[LDX]

I used to think that utah mormons would be more pro-inmigration because a large percentage were missionaries in some other part of the world..
But I guess is the same as any other group of people...